My quiz results:

You are a BAD INDIAN GIRL and your relatives talk shit about you. There may be some hope (through cleansing and a prayer ceremony orchestrated by your Nosy Auntie) that you may become a good Indian Girl. Otherwise, welcome to the Bad Indian Girl Community!

No real surprise! ;)

-D

MY quiz said...

(40+) HOLY AUNTIE BUTT! You may be the worst Indian Girl in the whole community! We would like to hear from you!!!!

awww, how cute. still infamous after all these years. ;)

yours naughtily,
the WORST indian girl EVER

For those curious about the poster boy for all pompous Indian guys, he is Ajit Kumar, a wannabe racer/actor from the Tamizh Film industry. Some might even remember him playing the character of Susim alongside Shahrukh in 'Asoka'. Oh wait, does anyone remember 'Asoka'?

Come on guys, you're not going to let them get away with this are you?!?

Lets set up our own website called

www.PompousIndianGirls.com

about the Indian chicks that walk around with their noses in the air, live on their daddy's expense account, spend their whole lives dissing others, think their shit doesnt smell etc etc

Lets have some fun :-)

LoL @ Pervert Uncle :)

Its a very funny website. Very well done. I noticed references to 'light skin' in the website a few times.
Obsession with light skin is the most embaressing little secret of the Indian community.

Al Mujahid

Its hardly an embarassing little secret. I mean it's fukked up, but its hardly a secret, people are quite open about their preference for light skin within most Desi communities.

Punjabi Boy,
I understand that. I meant the secret vis-a-vis Non Desi American community. Within the Desi Community its almost the norm. But only a few Non-Desis know about this.

I think I almost died laughing while reading "How to prevent your wedding reception from turning into a little girl's talent show""

According to the site I am: You are a VERY BAD INDIAN GIRL. Shame on you! You are a complete embarrassment to your parents. All the aunties and uncles in the community know about your ways and are hiding their Raju's and Payal's from you. There is no way on this Bollywood planet that you could EVER become a good Indian Girl!

Great idea on the website. My advice for stopping Auntie Butt and Sari Rolls is to lay off the ghee and sugar. For guys it's the Uncle Belly. Stop having a fifth of Johnny Walker every afternoon.

They should also have tips on how to navigate the dreaded India Association Meetings.

dude go date whoever and don't make fun of the rest of us. i actually don't really give an f about the lives of bad indian girls as long as they don't feel they have the right to talk about the desi community as if they have some kind of insider knowledge. most of what they are doing is what most girls do anyway. most women in america have "non-indian" boyfriends. I think they've internalized some weird ish and now they're pissed. but it ain't my fault.

ps I'm dating someone and happy. She likes that I'm not a male-ho

--- Raju

"smoking kills"

i am a VERY BAD INDIAN GIRL. no surprise there, though i expected to fall in the BAD indian girl category instead.

i can't say i'm thrilled about being reminded how being unmarried at the age of 25 means your over-the-hill in the indian community.

I don't know if I should be happy or sad ... but I'm a pretty good girl. I guess getting married early threw me off the bad girl boat. sigh.

I am awful. Good to see some things get better with age. :)

Turns out I'm also a "BAD INDIAN GIRL." Who knew?

Only thing that kept me from being "VERY BAD" is that I never wear Sari, Pants/tube tops, Short Skirt/breast revealing top, or Saran Wrap to clubs. Although...

Funny stuff, but lord, their web design skills suck three large rolls of back fat.

I would pay good money to see Indian girls say any of those things to Nosy Aunties or Pervert Uncles at a wedding (or anywhere else, for that matter).

I'm surprised - it seems like the standard for being a bad girl aren't all that bad, honestly speaking. Not cooking? Not wearing saris? Not dating Indian boys?? Sigh. Clearly, I was expecting too much.

Where's the cocaine? Where's the drunken altercations with the police? Hello, any Indian camwhores in the house?

Actually, I am not one to speak. I am what my relatives describe as a "simple boy" so I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Hello, any Indian camwhores in the house?

um, HELLO???

Now that's what I'm talking about ... where do I paypal the money too??

Very funny website, although I'm sad that BIGs may find this an impetus to date The White Man, especially given their track record with Indians.

What a letdown... I'm only a "bad indian girl" according to their ranking. Obviously, I need to get my act together so that I can hurtle into "Holy Auntie Butt" territory.

I'm sad that BIGs may find this an impetus to date The White Man, especially given their track record with Indians.

i don't think you should worry your pretty head. people will fulfill forbidden colonial fantasies for a million other reasons that have nothing to do with some novelty site...one such crrrazy explanation might be...they're ATTRACTED to the guy. ;)

being bad doesn't predict any such behaviour; i only go brown and i'm the WORST indian girl there is, according to them.

rrr- i'll make sure there's a link for you to empty your pockets in shortly.

I married a white guy and I was classified as the goodest possible ("GET OFF THIS SITE!") so, word, Anna.

What's attractive about The White Man? God doesn't even like them -- s/he burns them in the sun. Besides, BIGs already have Gurinder Chadha to fulfill their colonial fantasies.

dude (I say dude alot even though I ain't caucasian) beep, here's a scoop....

you ain't heard....its not automatically happy ever after you land a Date with a White Man. its just that the movie ends there and it don't show when said Man ain't really down with someone's indian-ness or has some problems fully respecting people who are different than him, or when he can't rely on his worldview being the sole reference point of the existence of everyone around him. suckily enough. you know what, Gurinder Chadha ain't making anyone date anyone. But do not worry, you just haven't seen the rest of the movie

obviously not all peeps is like that, but you'd be surprised. that girl you see laughing it up might be thinking in the back of her mind...."what if he was brown would you still find it hard to except I have lower back hair"

hahaha, don't be mad its a joke!

Most white men are profoundly unattractive.

Then again so are most Desi men.

And most Asian men, Latin men, Black men.....

what to say :)

ps what colonial fantasy are we talking about here? i didn't think natives were the one with the fantasies. we get fantasies too?

where's Kiera Knightley!

Are you guys ok with Desi guys dating The White Woman then?

Or do you just feel forced to do it because the lower back hair puts you off?

do i, raju, get to speak for all of us?

if so, my answer is...i prefer in general dating an indian woman or a woman of color bc i feel we understand each other....but this is just my experience, which is open i guess to criticism

ps lower back hair has never put me off, or on for that matter. it just is

I am against all dating between all races. The world is already overpopulated. Please get spayed or neutered. Thank you.

not a bad idea, beep :)

Dear woman,

We have been through it all in the dating world, especially dating/experiencing Indian men. I'd like to share these stories and am asking you to contribute a short story about your "Indian Man/Men dating experiences. It can be an anecdote or a saga, just something that sticks out in your mind. You can tell us about "dealing with his ex," "handling mama's boy syndrome," "not being the 'right Patel'," "having him go back to India to have an arranged marriage," "he doesn't tell his family about you." etc...Stories should be a paragraph to 4 pages long. I want to publish an anthology. I have gotten a lot of encouragement from other friends and colleagues, this website to put this together...the stories should be comical, poignant, enlightening or just plain interesting. I will edit your stories. Please pass on the information to your friends. I am determined to tell our stories...think of it as therapy--you can vent about all the ridiculous, comical, crazy things you have experienced "Dating Indian Men." If you have an idea and would like to talk about it with me, I can help getting you started or formulate your story. Please call me and we can brainstorm. Stories can be published anonymously too. I will edit, add, complete your story with your help. I will do all the work, but I want your ideas. Let's get this book published. I plan to take it to all the major publishers and I am confident that we will get our voices heard. Its time! Please forward this email to your friends too.

Arati Misro 323-868-5701.
Email: misrofilms@yahoo.com

The deadline for submissions is April 15, 2005.

Thanks and look forward to talking to you soon.

Arati Misro,
Misrofilms inc.
Los Angeles, CA

I liked that idea the first time when it was called "Bridget Jones' Diary." Thank you.

Thanks Arati. A friend and I were thinking of doing a similar anthology about our crazy desi men dating experiences. I will gladly contribute to yours. Its kind of sad, some of us would really like to stay brown, but our 20-something experiences have left us nothing short of jaded. Dealing with the not so ex-ex, guys who are determined to make you fit their stereotype of the desi woman that they sabotage all interactions with you, and the not-ready-to-commit-because-they-think-they-got-some-game-left variety, to name a few more. I'm not trying to hate on desi men. In fact, I am lucky to know a number of wonderful desi men - just that they are proverbially taken or gay. Damn.

Arati,
I think I already know what I need to know about your anthology from your solicitation. This is not really an anthology about "Indian Man/Men dating experiences." Granted that I do not belong to the sex you are targeting, whether to contribute to, or to read your anthology, but your examples show that this will be an Indian male bashing book. Why don't you ask for stories about, "How much he sacrificed for you," "how he helped you through the worst of times," or "how he picked you over his family?"
It's your pergoative to write the book you want to write but please call a spade a spade. For every example of a jackass of an Indian guy you point out, I will show you five really good guys that would be more than worthy. As I often say, when it comes to dating and love we are victims of our own design and to a certain degree allow life to screw us over. Writing a book about how much Indian men are "ridiculous, comical, crazy" may feel good at first but it will only serve to keep oneself in a defeatest mindset and allow history to repeat itself.

It would be awesome if whoever purchased this book also received a coupon to get spayed or neutered. Thank you.

Raju thinks desi women should just move on and date skandanavian, icelandic and uraguayan men, because they are universally without problems

Raju and his friends will be ok, really

Arati, can I contribute to the anthology if I went on a date with a transvestite?

GoodGirl, are you saying that White Woman likes lower back hair or *has* lower back hair?

And, Arati, if someone submits a story about a guy that a went on a date and brought his mother along, just be aware that that same guy went on a date with that same woman only to have her father ask during dinner if he was circumcised.

sigh.

when i saw that...comment, i bristled.

don't MAKE me bust out the rant on how indian guys (like all good guys) are wonderful.

wrt to this sudden epidemic of boy-bashing blogs (b/c men don't act in ways that are relevant to such projects) i suddenly realise that it's easy to create when all you're doing is destroying. it takes far more thought, skill and charm to be positive, real and inspiring.

with all due respect (read: none), this "worst indian girl in the whole community" shall pass on the nasty.

Instead of contributions to the book, please just send this woman a few dollars. She can use the money she collects to get laid and her desire to produce such an anthology will dissipate immediately. Thank you.

Raju heard that indian transvestites are the only indian men who aren't crappy excuses for human beings

Raju is going to retire from commenting on the board now

I can assure any of my interested writers or readers that this is not a male bashing book! This is meant to reflect on how we grew from dating indian men and to become stronger women and to know what we are looking for and who we are. "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".I personally, love indian men. I am just intrigued to say the least..... I have many role models that have made my expectations too ideal..... This is my story you will have to ready in the book.

hey arati,

a question: who's going to get the profits from the book? and some suggestions: why don't you do it collectively and share with all your contributors since you're using their stories; also, how about not using "indian" and including a few queer people in the book?

-s

I'm glad you all like the site. Please do not give all the credit to me. I owe it all to a bottle of wine and three shots of Jack. Feel free to submit articles and I will be happy to post on the site.

This could cause a true war of the sexes :)

Oh man it will be fun

Guys, when are we going to fight back against the chip-on-her shoulder pompous Indian girl whose shit smells of Chanel No 5??

Lets do it man!

Get lively!

Guys, when are we going to fight back against the chip-on-her shoulder pompous Indian girl whose shit smells of Chanel No 5??

my shit smells like Creed. if you're going to diss and dismiss, do that...shit accurately. ;)

-A N N A

Raju is an indian man and so has broken his promise of not posting

Bad Indian Girl,

would you consider articles on Indian Boys who hate on Indian Girls who hate on Indian Boys because they are pissed at the attitudes of the grown-ups?

ANNA

Please, dont be angry.

You see, I am the son,
and the heir,
of a shyness that is criminally vulgar.
I am the son and heir of nothing in particular.

You shut your mouth! How can you say
I go about things the wrong way?
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does.

;)

I agree with Punjabi Boy. Indian men need to fight back.

Dear Pompous assholes (guys) of Sepia Mutiny,

We have been through it all in the dating world, especially dating/experiencing Desi Women.

I'd like to share these stories and am asking you to contribute a short story about your "Indian woman/women dating experiences. It can be an anecdote or a saga, just something that sticks out in your mind.

You can tell us about "dealing with the fact that she has more facial hair then you do", "handling daddy's little princess syndrome", "she expects you to marry her after the first date", "she cares more about the size of your wallet than the size of your heart" etc...

Stories should be no more than two lines long (indian men can't write). I want to publish an anthology, but I am too lazy. I have gotten absolutely zero encouragement from other friends and colleagues, this website to put this together.

The stories should be comical, poignant, idiotic or just plain interesting. Please pass on the information to your friends (if you have any!).

While I am utterly undetermined to tell our stories...think of it as revenge...you vent about all the ridiculous, comical, hairy things you have experienced "Dating Indian Women."

If you have an idea and would like to talk about it with me, then you probably have issues. Please call a shrink. Stories cannot be published anonymously.

I will let you do all the work, but I want to steal your ideas. Let's get this book published. I plan to take it to my buddy who has connections with all the major publishers and I am confident that this book will be a huge seller. And that I will become filty rich and have drunken monkey style sexual orgies, at my parent's motel, with a shitload of lewd gold digging bitches.

-----------------------------

Excuse the bluntness and stupidity of my post, but...

Why do desi men and women feel the need to berate each other ? Why do the abcds mock the fobs and vice versa ?

Are all desis (perhaps all people ?) just insecure little idiots who feel the need to establish the superiority of our own beliefs and actions by scoffing at those of our peers ?

dear epoch,

while i am beyond touched that you protected my delicate, fallopian-tube-centric sensibilities by only referring to the "guys" of SM as "pompous assholes", i am afraid i must decline such gentlemanly courtesy so that i may earnestly correct you;

if anyone is a pompous asshole here, it's me. those mutineers with y-chromosomes who have to put up with me on this blog are angels.

sincerely,

A N N A ;)

p.s. yeah, i know, you were being flip. in the second part of your comment, you were also being appropriately scornful-- i'm with you 100%. there's bad everywhere, within every gender and every race. it's there to make us so grateful for the good.

Raju totally agree. Pls stop the hate. its too much, its hard enough being desi but to be attacked for who you are by people who are also of the same community? it actually really does suck.

and I might be wrong but I don't think desi men do it with the same force as desi women. Ok we're idiots and we suck (we = desi men). But still, it hurts. Does not a desi man bleed when pricked? See, some of us kinda know a little shakespeare

raju, raju, wherefore art thou raju? deny thy father and refuse thy name, and i'll no longer be a capulet...or a hater. :-)

thats deep

Or Deepa.

Juhi-et,

I take thee at thy word,
Call me but love, and I'll be new baptized,
Henceforth I never will be Raju

(yes it was googled)

did any of y'all see the hinglish version of 12th night with what's-her-face from bend it like beckham? real shakespeare! real hindi! amazing.

-s

did any of y'all see the hinglish version of 12th night...

From Holy Auntie Butt to Shakespeare: the first year of Sepia Mutiny.

(Succinct yet elliptical, this is the title of your first publication)

Desi women are doing a lot of player hating these days! Its really bad and harmful and sad.

This sounds like a Blur song:

"Indian Boys who hate on Indian Girls who hate on Indian Boys."

But Raju, 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a desi man. What's a desi man? it is nor hand, nor foot, Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name! What's in a name? that which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet; So Raju would, were he not Raju call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title. O Raju, doff thy name, And for that name which is no part of thee Take all myself.

Your Juhi-et
(Shakespearean actress wannabe)

Dude, Raju was just joking around, he's not ready for commitment

Raju means,

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.

I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.

I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground.

Raju apologizes to Juhi for being an ass and not writing that in the first place

Desi boys need love.

Raju, thou hath won my heart, but alas, thou droppeth the ball.
And along came Manish, how silver-sweet sound my Cyrano lover's tongue by night,
Like softest music to attending ears!

And Raju, and in cyberspace, where often you and I
Upon faint primrose-beds were wont to lie,
Emptying our bosoms of their counsel sweet,
There my Cyrano and myself shall meet;
And thence from Sepia Mutiny shall turn away our eyes,
To seek new friends and stranger companies.
Farewell, sweet playfellow: pray thou for us;
And good luck grant thee thy Raju!
Keep word, Manish: we must starve our sight
From lovers' food till morrow deep midnight.

Your Juhi-et and Roxanne

If I have to listen to any more of this then I may end up opting for the poison.

And if thou must, fair..I mean wheatish Abhi, I will proclaim that Death lies on our dear Abhi like an untimely frost upon the sweetest flower of all the field....

Dear Juhi/Roxanne,

i totally feel what you are saying, you and Manish were meant for each other, he might not be pretty to other people but he loves you, and you and he are vibing with the poetry, its really great to see.

the time i spent with you was wonderful. you opened my eyes again to the beauty of poetry, the magic of words well-chosen

in a way i'm glad its ended up like this because, in all honesty you probably know way more about poetry than me

Raju

ROFLOL @ Abhi!!

dude you killed it!!

;-)

If I have to listen to any more of this then I may end up opting for the poison.

And, farewell, friends;
Thus Abhishek ends:
Adieu, adieu, adieu.

... [Manish] might not be pretty to other people...

Ah no! young blade! That was a trifle short!
You might have said at least a hundred things
By varying the tone. . .like this, suppose,. . .
Aggressive: 'Sir, if I had such a nose
I'd amputate it!' Friendly: 'When you sup
It must annoy you, dipping in your cup;
You need a drinking-bowl of special shape!'
Gracious: 'You love the little birds, I think?
I see you've managed with a fond research
To find their tiny claws a roomy perch!'
Truculent: 'When you smoke your pipe. . .suppose
That the tobacco-smoke spouts from your nose--
Do not the neighbors, as the fumes rise higher,
Cry terror-struck: "The chimney is afire"?'

Raju, thou hath won my heart, but alas, thou droppeth the ball.

If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumber'd here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yielding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend:
if you pardon, we will mend...
Else the blogger a liar call;
So, good night unto you all.

For real Manish. If you keep this up then Beware the Ides of March.

Why do I get the distinct feeling you two pallys are jerking-off as you write this...

Who cares what they're doing, it's their site (however, it would be nice to see you Anglophiles break into some Bengali or Urdu, you know? ;)

Raju, you're very funny :)

...Count me in as against this "Dating an Indian Man"...book. I suspect most of the "problems" submitted are to be found with any man. Why construct this idea that Desi men are specially problematic? Especially as the idea is being constructed in front of an audience of other ethnicities. Such a book justs helps them to construct more stereotypes about Desis.

And good for whoever pointed out the massive intra-Desi labeling. ABCD/FOB, man/woman, North/South, whatever...it's like everyone wants to be the person who has a handle on the "real" Desi identity. Fact is that all of these experiences are legitimate. Learn or don't learn, but why this need to invalidate?

Indian men suck....at everything. First of all, you have to tell them how to be...as in, how to treat a lady. Second of all, the mommy syndrome is enough to make me yack. Cut the cord, already...what the hell kind of power does mommy hold over? Put the noony away already. They have absolutely no game, they have no idea how to kiss, nor do they know anything about PASSION..... Dating an indian guy is like dating a fresh 13 year old. And don't let mommy find out or you'll be grounded! She'll make you feel tremendous guilt...

Make me PUKE....messed up behavior. Men just have no respect for women. I'm so glad that women of today are making $$. Because we don't have to be treated like dogs anymore.

Rock on grrrls. Love your site. xoxo.

Rock on grrrls. Love your site. xoxo.

first of all, the very men you disparage are behind this site-- by a six:one ratio. i'm the only grrrl here.

(you didn't say "some" indian men suck, so i can only infer that you meant "all". you also didn't give us a courtesy-qualify of, "yes, there are probably a few good guys..." either.)

i'm not trying to be cruel, but it sounds like you are:

1) new to this site.
2) rather emotionally scarred.

the first contention rests on the fact that we've already done the "indian boys suck my left one" rant a while ago. my second contention is offered after a cursory reading of your comment.

a nanosecond after doing so, i wanted to flame you for idiocy and inaccuracy, but i silenced my reptile brain. it is, after all, sunday. it's also close to lent.

so, i offer you a hug and an invitation to do whatever it takes with us to feel better, with one caveat-- that you don't diminish others (and therefore yourself) whilst doing it.

i'm sorry your experiences have made you so salty-sour. i must say, with all the love, affection and patience of an older sister: your categorical denigration of an entire group is wrong.

:+:

i'm starting to weary of this "eeew, boys suck" trend, especially since it will only encourage our dearest "punjabi boy" to resubmit his idea for a website that takes down indian girls who think their shit doesn't stink, a peg... ;)

Sorry, I came across the site and only read down to the "indian men suck my left one" and just decided to post. Sure, I'm not happy with the "sample" of desis that I've encountered and I should be able to write so if someone else is busting as well, right? Sorry...just was stating my $.02 too...

Cacacolored, please stay home and watch "The L Word." Thank you.

In a way I feel like responding to things like cococolored's comment is wrong in that I might be trying to stifle her expression, but on the other hand, you're not really doing anything but lashing out in massive generalities.

When you say "all desi men can't kiss" you're talking about all of us. We live in a culture in which we're an extreme minority of the people here. We live in a culture in which a person seeing us for the first time has a whole laundry list of stereotypes to employ towards us, most of which aren't positive.

For one thing, who is out there telling people that some desi men CAN kiss. Not all desi men are 40 and jerks. Some really are 13 and new to dating. Some are 20 and aren't actually that jerky. Feeling like you have the ability to express affection and intimacy is an important part of being a human. Why the hell would desi men really be unable to do this as a general group? Are you a racist? Do you feel "race" endows a person with certain characteristics?

If you "sampled" desis like food, eat some other food for god's sake! I KNOW, you'll get pressure from the rents/aunties, but you know what, there's desi men who would SUPPORT you in choosing other people to partner with.

Its too prevelent and its too fierce. Its not NICE.

Just stop, really. Cos I have not tried to kiss you and I think I'm actually an affection person who tries at least to be loving and caring, and I'm often on the look-out to understand world-views in which women and men are treated as equals.

desi men have the right to be considered as individuals like anyone and we're not some monolithic group

umm........a great collection of people. All the weirdos in one place. Throughly enjoying it!! keep it going.

Now here is my 2 paise.
Cococoloured.....here is the presciption for you.

* contact MJackson, kiss him..or do what it takes and find out what it takes for a cococoloured to automagically change to pastywhitecolored.

and here is my 2cents and then a dollar

* since almost all of the girls here bitching about desi men, are talking about the oh-so-earth-shattering-sex that desi men can't give (directly or indirectly), try other men left right and center till you turn 40. and then if it does not work out, there is always the option of you becoming the lady(?) version of leery indian uncle. You know that is the only version lacking in present desi scenario (looks like all the stupid brown people seem to respect their women, atleast the older ones). Then you can take credit for f**king up the culture, where the morons seem to have been teaching from thusands of years to respect their women (its another thing that about half of them don't in practice).

To all the BIGs, I say, cut the f**kin curry connection already!!!
cut the f**kin curry connection
cut the f**kin curry connection
cut the f**kin curry connection, PLEEEEAAASSE

No....my name really is RAJU.

Oh....It's so like "desi man" of me, how did I forget to mention our lovery BIGs with golden indian hearts, gurrls (read laaadies like few among the people posted here) you are the reason why I respect ya'all. And to BIG's who are confused ( DO NOT read as ABCD's) do what you gotta do, but don't bash poor little me..OK?

Now the mean little tramps....bring it on :-) I need to justify why I wud rather prefer to be gay (which i am not, fortunately for all the BIG with good hearts) than to be around you.

I think some of'em here and the BIG site owner need a realty check!! Is it bcos you are so ugly from inside that it shows on your face, that you hookup with all these failures(and I still consider you are lucky).

"We live in a culture in which a person seeing us for the first time has a whole laundry list of stereotypes to employ towards us, most of which aren't positive".
Not anymore than what other people face.

"We live in a culture in which we're an extreme minority of the people here. We live in a culture in which a person seeing us for the first time has a whole laundry list of stereotypes to employ towards us, most of which aren't positive."

Exactly, (serious) Raju. Why make this situation worse by constructing more bad stereotypes ourselves? And it is a choice to construct such stereotypes.

Al Mujahid, in US society we (or Desi men, if you like) face more stereotypes than the majority white people.

word. Serious Raju over and out

Juhiet lay some more poetry out!

What I meant was the stereotyoes faced by other minorities.
I think that in the world of stereotypes, the Desi Men have it better than the East Asian men.
I think the stereotypes are directly proportionate to how white the minority looks and the percentage of FOB's in that community.
FOB's of any minority sadly have it the worst.

Yes, dating problems can be found with any men, but there are an UNNECESSARY ABUNDANCE of problems that one has to deal with when dating an indian man. These problems consist of: at times not really respecting women as a whole, equal entity with a brain (big, big problem), dealing with overbearing parents, and a lack of self esteem--I guess due to the fact that sadly, yes, you are the minority. And on that subject: I do NOT want to hear the woes about being a minority, as I am one, too. Cry me a river. Nobody is forcing you to be here.... In fact, I'm sure that if some Americans wanted to live in India (don't know anybody that would) there would be a problem there as well.... I wouldn't go to India and feel sorry for myself because I was the minority, though. I would know that I put myself in that situation and deal with it better than saying "poor me". Peace out.

Cococolored,
You said "and a lack of self esteem"......I dont believe Desi Men suffer from a lack of self esteem as a group anymore than other men.

I'm sure that if some Americans wanted to live in India (don't know anybody that would)...

There are plenty.

Raju has summoned my prose
Though I may make some foes
I must offer my words to end this strife
And pray that harmony shall become rife

Captain of our mutineers,
Juhi-et is here at hand;
And the youth, mistook by me,
Pleading for a lover's fee.
Shall we their fond pageant see?
Bhagwan, what fools these mortals be!

(Accolades to Manish who continueth to make my heart weak by quoting the astute words of my partner-in-prose, Puck)

An admirer of Puck and Manish

Gentle Juhi-et, dear Raju,

Stand aside: the noise we make
Will cause Abhi to awake
Amicus curiae's fine and good
but verse, nay-- Brutus, understood.

Ah, but if it be legalese that rings like music to Abhi's ears...
I can happily oblige with "wheretofores" and choruses of "may it please the court."
Because, Abhi, in our multiple identities...
a moonlighting Juhi-et does not preclude a 9-to-5 Juliette Totenberg. It just heightens the burden of proof.

Respectifully submitted,
Nina's better half.

Cococolored,

I don't know what your dating experiences have been so I'm not going to try to delegitimize them (or call you a dyke like some other idiots on this site), or deny that a lot of desi men (myself included) have a lot of shit to work through.

The only criticism I have is that your anger might be keeping things from moving forward. Everybody has shit that they need to deal with and work through over the course of life (admittedly, some of us more than others).

I'm not saying you have to give up what sounds like well-earned bile that's pretty common among women in minorities in the US--take a look at the pages on black women dealing with Black men in End of Blackness by Debra Dickerson--different subculture, same theme.

But...I don't know...maybe there will be a little room in your heart at some point for some compassion towards all those exs that fucked you over? Or at least the other desi men who haven't? In the immortal words of Tribe: "The thing that men and women need to do is stick together; Progressions can’t be made if we’re separate forever."

Saurav, thank you for admitting and being honest that some desi men have some different things to tackle. Any info on how to deal when you are trying to help that person pull through their problems? I've been supportive, loving, open to new things, but it doesn't seem to be helping. I feel really stupid for what I posted--but as I mentioned, I only read halfway down when everyone was busting on men, and wanted to say my piece as well. I love boys, too....for whoever it was that said I needed to watch the L show. Kiss my feet!

Cococolored, no worries and thanks. To be fair to the other desi men in this conversation, I'm somewhat removed from the particulars of this (sigh...) ongoing discussion, so it's easier for me to be a little less threatened.

I don't think there's any generalized advice you can give someone on how to help other folks get over their shit. Sometimes it's helped me to have emotional support; sometime's it's helped to have people who are honest with me in a tactful way when I'm being sheisty; sometime's it's helped to have people that give me space; sometime's it's helped to have people that understand me better than i do myself and cajole me into doing things i don't feel like (I hate this though). It's specific to me though--I mean, desi boys have had to deal with so much shit from so many different places (just like desi women), that what the key things to focus on are going to be different. And to be honest, some people don't want to work on their shit, and it's not productive for your time or energy to try, as sad as that is.

So, maybe, listening, trying to figure out what's going on, and trying to figure out what the appropriate response should be (support, confrontation, cutting your losses and bailing, whatever). Whatever you give is more than nothing.

Also, if you're angry, you're angry and that's totally legitimate. It's just that it can get you into shit when you express it publicly without processing it first or at least being tactful about it...personal experience speaking here:)

By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes . . .

Come, thick night,
And pall thee in the dunnest smoke of hell,
That my keen knife see not the wound it makes in these blabbering three (Manish, Raju, Juhiet),
Nor heaven peep through the blanket of the dark,
To cry, 'Hold, hold!'
As I find my mark.

:)

O fiend, you stabbed Polonius
I judge that most erroneus
Prima facia, it's felonious
So draft a writ of habeas
And call out all yo' amicus
For a throwdown unharmonious.

one hundred

Et tu, Abhi? Unbelievable.

To all mutineers:
If we offend, it is with our good will.
That you should think, we come not to offend (or to launch ad hominem attacks),
But with good will. To show our simple skill,
That is the true beginning of our end.

Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Juhiet shall restore amends (while Juliette seeks restitution and punitive damages for pain and suffering).

Peace, ho! no outrage: peace!
This Manish is noble and his fame folds in
This orb o’ the earth. Their last offences to us
Shall have judicious hearing. Stand, Abhi,
And trouble not the peace.

I ain't tryna have none of my people hurt and murdered, it ain't worth it
I can't think of a perfecter way to word it
Then to just say that I love y'all too much to see the verdict
I'll walk away from it all 'fore I let it go any further

I'm sorry cococolored but I think your problem is with you. I don't mean to be rude, but just get off it. You've got no right to generalize about desi men. Even being desi and you seem to have dated a few desi men, you're in NO position to cast judgement.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but if you felt stupid with what you initially wrote, thats probably a good sign that it was stupid.

As for your problems with the men in your life; A) your choice of men, your inclination of who you are choosing says more about you than it does any other single person -- for good or bad.

If I were to consistently choose women who were x, y, or z bad for me thats MY deal, something about Me. To take that and pretend to be doing some kind of sociological survey of desi men? Ridiculous.

I don't mean to be harsh but this whole blasting generalizations thing is just not anywhere near reasonable. Its dehumanizing and ridiculous.

Sorry to harsh the poetry jam

now why y'all gotta go and start hatin'
when what we should be doin' is lovin' and matin'?
this is our space to come together and unite
not to dish out our might and fight.

peace.

raju busts out with a rant so loud,
he's so harsh 'cause she was oh-so-proud.
point well taken, but now the beats are drowned
by cacophonic words from a schizophrenic crowd.

but relax [pause], we takes it back,
re-in-car-nated like the iron merrimack.
whack geeksta rap will always overflow your stack
while real mcs are left to pick up the slack:

raju, words is words, and reason has its season,
but nothin quite beats right rhymes in bein' pleasin'.

bring it back, y'all! bring it back, bring it back, bring it back y'all!

please? :)

granted i ruined the mood and i deserve to be called out for trying to "show verbal might"

but the viewpoint she was putting out, if you're taking it seriously, is dehumanizing....she's telling me i can't kiss, i don't know how to make love, that she knows all my problems and has the right to tell other people what they are

oh, you didn't ruin it--you just put it on pause. bring it back!

sorry people (looking at the floor).....that was too harsh on my part. Yes, like the GG told I had a choice. Though I was not stereotyping ppl, UMMMM....I think I was classifying ppl?

Well let me explain ...someone so bad from inside claims that one knows everyting about my people just because one has the same color skin as me make me furious (I ain't as meek as one wud like to see a desi...not QUITE the gandhi...u know). I considers this the worst betrayal and thats when something inside me TOTALLY REFUSES to be put in "that" category.

I wish my sense of humor was with me right at this moment, oh...well atleast I hope my response is a lil tactful this time. I kinda crashed the romeo-juliet party too. The spuidity of love never ceases to amaze me. If a german can love a french, in the middle of WWII, this is nothing. Hopefully there will be some love here too.

So, you are a good kisser? Is this a self proclamation? Have you asked the ppl you are kissing or have they voluntarily told you, "Wow, Raju. You are a great kisser?" :) C'mon. Smile. Don't hate me....it's funny s*it...

well i wouldn't kiss someone who calls me names so nah-nah, but.....affection and imagination = good sex. its not kosher to brag about the old "ahem-ahum" but i've had "positive feedback"

in all seriousness, its f'ed up to put all of us on blast; everything you wrote was a straight-up stereotype of an asian/indian man--- particularly the desexualization

lates

oh i see some love coming between cococolored and raju. all good relationships start with a good argument about how the other person is totally obnoxious.

in general i agree with you but i'm already taken

Me, too = already taken. But it's really funny, regardless.... So, has your woman told you that you are a good kisser? Can she keep her hands off of you? You must be a machine, Raju!

yeah whatever, its not really all that funny and its particularly not your business what kind of kisser I might be given your stereotypes of desi men

ps yeah I am a machine...hours lady, hours

i want to be more clear:

i don't think you're funny because your stereotypes of desi men are dehumanizing and exactly the way asian and indian men have been desexualized for maybe, a hundred years in the US

I wouldn't know. I'm young and I haven't been desexualizing men or desi/asian men in the US besides my little rant, which as you can tell, I'm over and have apologized for already. I think you need to get over your hate and paranoia of those who you feel are out to "get you"--from what I can see it's all the people in the US. For goodness sake, Raju, chill and relax. I was not pointing the finger at YOU. However, since you've been concentrating on this for quite some time, you are making yourself out to be a little over zealous to everyone.

Pull the stick out.... You know, the one that is lodged in there, that you can't seem to find. Maybe get your girl to assist you because I could really care less! I am not interested in you, I was only kidding and trying to bring humor to this....as comic relief.

And just FYI, I used to date a vietnamese guy and I thought the world of him--still do. Whoops. There goes your stereotype.

thing was, you never did actually apologize unless i missed it. as far as i know you still pretty much believe what you wrote, in which case i'm not sure why i should find it funny

there's no stick, but why should what you said just be ignored when its pretty much a harmful stereotype, especially since you haven't really said it was a stereotype

I for one loooove desi men....the hairiness gets me going, seriously.

Yo, Raju, you're trying to talk sense RE stereotypes to someone who calls herself "cococolored"...

Coco's understanding of stereotypes = Sony, Panasonic, JVC...

Guy's, everyone lighten up please. :)
As a neutral observer I thought coco had apologized and was trying to be friendly. Look at it this way. If even a single guy or girl reading this thread has promised to give a desi of the opposite sex another chance, then we (all of us) have done our jobs. We even learned a little Shakespeare along the way.

Thank you. Yes, I did mention that I felt stupid for what I posted--> pretty much equivalent to I'm sorry without really saying it. *hint, hint, Raju* I mentioned that I only read halfway down in the post when everyone else was complaining about desi men and did it because "everyone else did" and I wanted to say my little rant. You are holding on to this way too long and somehow I see that this has been festering with you for a long time. And let me point something else out to you: Why, if you have a woman and are happy, why do you let these things bother you? Generalizations shouldn't affect you so much if you have confidence and are happy with yourself.

I refuse to say it's a stereotype. It was a generalization of mine. Before your little rant, I was unaware of the stigma of Desi men....and I happen to have a great deal of male friends.

On an up side, I never look at debate on an issue as a bad thing. Debate is good. Helps us learn and realize things.

xoxo, forgive me.

armchair psychology might feel good but its not very accurate.

If you're a desi man, you might either be aware of the stereotypes and the history behind them, or you just experience them and don't really know why they occur. But the desexualization of men of color, particularly asian men, has a long history.

You still don't apologize in that you refuse to see what you said as a stereotype. So thats not really an apology, which is why I'll keep pointing it out.

You're more than welcome to keep saying whatever you want, or say nothing at all. But that does not mean I won't do my bit to refute what are pretty standard-issue sterotypes about desi men.

that fact you see them as generalizations and not stereotypes could only mean they are ingrained enough that you don't notice them.

Anyway, its never been as issue to me where you are personally the bad person, but given my understanding of the situation, I'm fairly calmly (for the most part) going to continue to insist that the views you espoused are stereotypical, dehumanizing, and have a long and unoriginal history of negatively tarring our community

Really thats what its about to me, which is why I feel like its a good thing to keep responding to you. I don't think I've been personally nasty to you, I'm just not letting those comments go, and I pretty much don't think I should. But its nothing personal against you

Btw I am sorry if I've made you feel attacked

i swear to god you guys are actually dating and are just roleplaying here or something. this exchange is just so surreal at this point.

Elaine: Are you calling me a liar?

Jerry: I'm calling you one if you are one, are you a liar?

Elaine: Are you?

Jerry: Get your finger out of my face.

Elaine: You get yours out, I was here first!

Jerry: I don't care.

Elaine: Get it out!

Kramer walks in just as this argument begins to turn into a slap fight, and gets
in the middle.

Kramer: Hey hey, alright, hey hey, stop it! Come on, break it up! What's the
matter with you? Now don't you two see that you're in love with each other? I
mean, why can't you face that already? You're running around out there looking
for something that's not even there, when everything that you dream of is right
here, right here in front of you. Now why can't you admit that?

" But the desexualization of men of color, particularly asian men, has a long history".
I am not sure about that.
Black Male sexuality has never been desexualized in America. If anything black males have been treated as oversexualized beings.
I do not believe that desi men have been desexualized either. Mocked and caricatured yes, but not desexualized.
The only group that I am aware of which has been completely desexualized are the Asians ( East Asians to be precise)

i loved seinfeld too

Al....I agree in a sense. one could also say the Orientalist (as in Said) view of brown men was as over-sexed rather than under-sexed, butblack men at times were desexalized as well......castration and lynching for relationships with whites should ring a bell

its not all doom and gloom but this stuff is out there

lates

I am sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for what I wrote because you are pissed because it is a typical stereotype. I was not aware that it even WAS a stereotype--not before now! And I'm sorry, but I that is how I (ME) feel about my particular situation at hand.

So, I'm telling you, that it may be a stereotype from your point of view, but it's pure REALITY in my view.

So, I'm sorry that you didn't like what I wrote, I'm sorry if it offended you and fed into some stereotype that you are obviously bitter about, but have a big hot cup of GET OVER IT.

And you keep mentioning that it's been a stereotype for 100 years. You haven't been around for 100 years, and neither have I. I care what is going on right now with my situation. I'm not going to the internet and digging stuff up. Why don't you stop it, too?

And how did african american men get in the mix?! The only thing I'm aware of (and have ever been aware of) is something about east asian men. And I'm saying that it's simply not true. To me, I think they are awesome, passionate and creative when it comes to love.

If we want to dig up crap that depict people in a negative light, we could dig up desi men's views of women. But you know what? I don't feel like it because I don't have the energy.

So, you can argue all you want with yourself, Raju.

Have fun!

dont u hate it how elder's bug u about cooking indian food and then compare you to your friends or their friends children! i hate that so much! or how they think ur bad just for going and hanging out with ur friends..like all your supposed to do 24.7 is study like a maniac!

sorry my comment was pretty random! but its true!

Neha, maybe you should get one of these shower curtains so you can tell your parents you're studying all the time. I'm not taking a long shower, ma, I'm studying SAT vocab!

http://www.bookofjoe.com/2005/03/worlds_most_dep.html

its called reading. and thinking about how we got here.

your views are gross generalizations. they are stereotypes and this other drama stuff you're doing is dumb. what the hec made you think I even care enough about it to make it personal with you?

step outside of yourself for a sec, oh and take responsbility for when you say something out of line

Neha, that really stinks. There is definitely more to life than studying. Don't parents know that when you are made to do something, you burn out? And that you'll do anything just to not do what they actually want you to do?

You are studying, so I'm assuming you are in high school or college... Let me tell you about these nerdy guys who used to calculate their grade point average in class all of the time. I would sit there and watch this guy calculate every test or quiz that he got back in class. He would sit there and rub it in that he broke the curve or that he was going to so and so college. Who really cared at the time? Not me. I had a normal life. I didn't have the hottest grades, but I did what I had to do to get by--which was pretty easy in high school. I went out, hung out with friends and partied occasionally. I had a great time. Grade point average guy did not. He didn't have a life outside of studying and rubbing it in everyone's face. So, we graduated went on our way--and a year later, I heard that he bombed out of college! He partied for the first time in his life, drank, got into drugs, and eventually dropped out and became a Walmart employee.

Sometimes, when parents are so strict that they don't let their children have lives, it doesn't always go so favorably. Parents have to realize this. My boyfriend was pressured so much and was expected to be a doctor. But midway through college, he burnt out completely--became withdrawn, stopped going to class, drank 24/7. He just stopped caring about a lot of things and it's because he was pushed too hard.

Maybe you should print this out for them to read.

You attract more bees with honey, not vinegar.....

Today, on Kitty Party:

"Coco ignores Raju"

Well, since coco has apparently decided to take the high road, genderqueer(?) troublemaker that I am, I'll take her place.

Raju, I understand that what I said was stupid, and I tried to acknowledge that. I feel attacked now though, and that's why I'm getting defensive. I'm sorry for what you've had to go through, and in time, I'll learn more about long-standing Asian American and desi history and stereotypes. I was speaking a little tactlessly from my own experience. I won't apologize for speaking from my own experience; but I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I wish all the men on the list would take as much responsibility as I am right now when they speak about women the same way that I was speaking about men.

By the way, Juhi-et says she wants you to write more poetry. She really enjoyed that.

Gees. Can't anyone be clever anymore? ;)
Who is Raju?

Dear Suarav,

I try to take responsbility for how I speak about indian women.

Initially I thought I was talking in a forum where people want to discuss these issues. If this is a ha ha hee hee forum, thats clearly not what I was doing.

Speaking from your experience is fine, but you tell me, where are the fora where desi men can actually speak to these issues?

I've never said there aren't myraid issues around how desi women are discrminated against, and look, if I had put desi women on blast for some ig'nant ish, you think I'd expect people to be like, oh well, its your experience, ho-hum we'll all move on?

While in my old age I've personally gotten past these issues, I care about social justice, and I care about how younger desi men are going to be treated as a sociological trend, and generally I care about how f-ed up statements get thrown around.

I have a time and half ignoring comments against African american, Latino, immigrant communities, because thats just wrong (I'll leave out my reaction to comments about women but I do also object to those kinds of comments as well).

You know what I don't think I was being harsh expect in the beginning, I was and am just holding that statement and the person who made it to scrutiny. I understand its her experience, but its a generalization and its laden with stereotypes that HAVE been around for quite a long time. I don't think its an accident that the statement itself had so many memes (thought-processes) that coincied with that general stereotype of the desexualized man of color.

PS my friend, who is not desi but knows enough about them says...."well she does have a point about the mommy problem"

If we as desi men don't find mature outlets to discuss how things like this make us/have made us feel, it will come out in much less mature ways, which I am sure people here can attest to seeing.

Its hurtful to not be taken as in solidarity with desi women who want to break out of legit bad issues in our community.

Dating us is not really the only solution. Seeing us and treating us as potential allies might be.

You can't be an ally when you're getting blasted

for Juhi-et and Coco, by Anne Sexton

A woman who writes feels too much,
those trances and portents!
As if cycles and children and islands
weren't enough; as if mourners and gossips
and vegetables were never enough.
She thinks she can warn the stars.
A writer is essentially a spy.
Dear love, I am that girl.

A man who writes knows too much,
such spells and fetiches!
As if erections and congresses and products
weren't enough; as if machines and galleons
and wars were never enough.
With used furniture he makes a tree.
A writer is essentially a crook.
Dear love, you are that man.

Never loving ourselves,
hating even our shoes and our hats,
we love each other, precious, precious.
Our hands are light blue and gentle.
Our eyes are full of terrible confessions.
But when we marry,
the children leave in disgust.
There is too much food and no one left over
to eat up all the weird abundance.

Raju,

Based on the comments I've seen you post before, you seem like a person with a lot of integrity. I wasn't criticizing you or refuting any of your claims, because I think they're true. My only point is that the person you were arguing with is clearly not going to hear them and that it might be time to let it go for that reason alone :)
I know it's no fun to be damned for being a man--and doubly so when you're not allowed to defend yourself, even when you spend your time trying to be a good guy.

Cool you know I don't mean to make this into a profession I just was writing stuff that I think makes sense