I remember reading somewhere about a guy who came across the new McDonald's slogain "I'm lovin' it" when in India, and thought it was a slogan particular to that market :) Yay for progressive tense stative verbs.

A lot of the "Hinglish" idiosyncrasies derive directly from Hindi : the use of "even" and "only" correspond to "bhi" and "to" in sentence structure... and Indian English and native French speakers speaking English share the tag-question oddity. It's common in both languages to add "...n'est-ce pas?" or "...hai na?" to the end of sentences... both translating into english as "...no?"

The most interesting part for me is that Indian English seems to be standard, regardless of whether Hindi is the native speaker's mother tongue. I don't have knowledge of any other Indian languages, so I don't know if they follow the same linguistic patterns, but I wonder how the Hindi-flavored English spread as it did. I understand the Britishisms well enough, but why isn't there an English that borrows heavily from Tamil grammar in the south?

hm. after having RTFA, apparently there ARE south Indian variations on Indian English. Bad Andrea!

What's wild is that despite this, I noticed (and several colleagues concurred) that while the largest group of folks here have a Brit/English accent (derived in no small part from the Island's history), many of the ethnic-Indians here still had a rather distinct Indian/English accent quite apart from many the ethnic-Chinese who have quite the Chinese/English one. What makes it interesting is that these accents appear to have persisted despite many of the speakers being "native Singaporeans" for multiple generations - a fact that probably betrays quite a bit of social segregation (at least until recent times).

This may have more to do with ethnic identity rather than proximity, i.e., people tend to speak more like the people they both identify and want to identify themselves with. Also, accents are sometimes stronger in places with higher diversity, in order to maintain a sort of linguistic distinction of identity.

The last time I visted that Wiki page it was flagged with 'The content of this article is disputed' - you can see some of the discussion relating to this on the relevant talk page...

There are definitely South Indian variations. My friend Sapna (North Indian) and I had quite the "discussion" about which version made more sense:

"Off the light" (south)
"Close the light" (north)

What cracks me up is how many of my friends develop QUITE the accent and speech patterns when speaking to their parents - especially funny when they are on the phone.

-D

yeah, why is it that even the american-born can lapse into some real FOBby Hinglish the minute an auntie walks into the room? I'm so guilty of it... do we think that by speaking in similar patterns our companion will feel more at ease?

I am not fully understanding this talk-shalk. Please to explain to me what this sepia mutinous is about. It is something to do with absconding dacoits and all, no?

yeah, why is it that even the american-born can lapse into some real FOBby Hinglish the minute an auntie walks into the room? I'm so guilty of it... do we think that by speaking in similar patterns our companion will feel more at ease?

Either way, it's definitely a natural thing we fall into, and not conscious at all. Whenever we speak, we automatically take into consideration who we're talking to and plug in appropriate accents and behaviours, based upon whatever impression we want to give the listener. At a very base level, we want to be understood, although chances are better than not that the auntie will understand standard English just as well as FOBby Hinglish. So, secondarily, we want to maintain or establish some sort of social relationship with the person -- by speaking in a FOBby accent to the auntie we might be showing social deference by letting her be the arbiter of the language style/accent, or we might be projecting a sense of community to each other or to those around us (i.e., being inclusive/exclusive).

I notice that when I'm around other more FOBby East Asians (I'm Japanese) I tend to bow instinctively/compulsively, avert my eyes, and use more Engrish-isms. Also, when I'm with family (3rd and 4th generation American), we tend to speak more Hawaiian-accented English because we associate ourselves with Hawaiians more culturally than we do Japanese, but I think the accent exists at all because it still defines an in-group that we can relate to as a family.

Advance apologies if TMI or I seem like I'm lecturing; sociolinguistics, accents and dialects are sort of an academic side-interest of mine.

Love always, your resident linguist-in-training,

Dot

when I'm with my cousins/siblings we tend to talk like the BhangraMuffins from Goodness Gracious Me ;)

we want to maintain or establish some sort of social relationship with the person...

Mirroring your customer's mannerisms is a classic sales technique.

While on the subject of language, check out the Wikipedia main page today.

Dot,

Please don't apologize! Your post was very interesting. I've thought the same about maybe being easier to understand, projecting community, etc.

I had never considered the deference idea you bring up but I think its very interesting and possibly has some truth to it (along with the other explanations). My father and mother speak the same language but very slightly different variations on it, so slight that everyone who speaks one at home can easily understand the other and, in all likelihood, speak it perfectly. But I've noticed that when my mother is around my father's mother or the rest of his family, she will slip into speaking their slightly different version of the language, most probably without noticing it, even though they could easily (1) understand her if she just spoke her own variant, or (2) all speak her variant. So the deference idea seems to pick up some traction from just this anecdotal example. Of course, when my mom just talks to my dad, she does it any damn way she pleases. But I'm not sure which way that cuts. :)

Nik,

w/r/t the social deference and accents: I think it's more noticeable when you have a contrast/conflict between family social hierarchy and linguistic hierarchy. For example, my grandpa is at the top of the family hierarchy; we naturally show him respect. Even so, English is his second language, and us lower-downs in the fam speak it better than him. (In fact, b/c of the war, Japanese was specifically discouraged and perfect English revered in my mom's household.) To make up for it, we simplify our English and speak more Engrish not because we think he can't understand, but because we wouldn't want to seem above him. This is where language gets interesting (to me, at least), where it changes due not to efficiency of communication, but to a higher sense of overall social representation.

w/r/t your mom and dad, your mom probably talks any way she pleases because in more intimate relationships, the social bonds are understood/strong enough to throw off the superficial dressings. Couples even go so far as to often flout the rules, as a sign/exercise of intimacy; notice how many degrade into baby talk with SO's, for example.

As someone who grew up in Shillong and Guwahati in North-Eastern India, I have noticed that the version of English spoken by my parents and other relatives is quite different from the Hinglish I hear other Desis speak.

hey,
I'm a trainee journalist and would like to write an article about hinglish/inglish since there are a lot of articles in the english papers but in my county- germany- nobody really knows about it.(appart from the Simpsons shop owner)
I found your coments both congenial and interessting.
I would appreaciate very mcuh if you could help me for I have a couple of questions.

is hinglish more a young thing, that is talked in the bus/streets ans clubs or is there a red line through the generations?

is the presantation in books such as the namesake and brick lane correct or exegerated?

is there a kind of snobism that is against the hinglish from of gloabal comunication and wants to stop hinglish language influence?

could you imagine thatt hinglish becomes more fashionable or is it already socially established?

Thanks a lot for your time and ear.I'm also thankful for general information about this topic.

I have very,very much respect for your cultural balancing act!
charlotte

One aspect that hasn't been brought up in the discussion here that I'd like to talk about is the association of knowledge of english to social status in the Indian subcontinent, in particular India.

From my observations, I have noticed that people who speak "proper" English are at times considered not only proficient in the language, but more knowledgable and intelligent than those who don't, which I diasgree with. Does having a good command of the English language automatically translate to some sort of a social superiority over those who may not?

I have heard the following comments on many occasions:
"He speaks good English, he probably is from a well-to-do family".
"She's so boring - her language is vernacular."
"How did they pick him up over me for the job, his English is grammatically incorrect most of the time".

What are your thoughts on this?

nice article on Indian English

Another gem at sephia.What I love about sephia is the diversity of cultural background and ethnicity. Its surely nice to get perspective from so many different people. Specially on this article. Although it started off as Indian English but it was nice to see inputs from Dot as well (as he/she mentioned not Indian).

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THANKS