In what seems (to me at least) as counter intuitive, the U.S. South has recently been fertile ground for ambitious young Indian-American politicians, many of whom end up winning.

Perhaps the South isn't as irredeemably racist as a lot of Coastal Liberals like to think?

Whatever the case, I agree that Reddy's platform basically says.... nothing.

Fiscally conservative? That's a old skool Republican line that's been beaten into meaninglessness (unfortunately, of late, mostly by Republicans). For some folks, it means smaller government, for others, it simply means a balanced budget. And for some, nothing at all.

Make GA a more business-friendly place? That usually means lots of un-progressive measures like lower taxes on biz (and often higher ones on individuals in order to balance the books), fewer privileges for unions, more lax enviro laws, etc. It's straight from Gov Arnie's rhetorical playbook.

Investment fraud? Licensure? They're both impt issues but it's hard to say exactly *what* he'd do... And they don't exactly match up to the high minded rhetoric around "fiscally conservative / socially responsible"

Still, it's cool to see him run and I honestly look forward to seeing him get a bit more concrete.

promoting public health and safety by overseeing licensed professionals more effectively.

Doh... it just hit me.... if I was more conspiratorial, I'd contend that this line was a coded plea to the rich desi docs of GA to donate $$$$ (in exchange for?)

In what seems (to me at least) as counter intuitive, the U.S. South has recently been fertile ground for ambitious young Indian-American politicians

If you ever spend some time in or around Atlanta and Athens, you'll see how an Indian politician in Georgia is actually counter-counter-intuitive. Or, intuitive even.

I'll be interested to see how successful he is, though. The Heart Of Dixie States (GA, AL, MS) are ruled by rurals, not the major cities. If he wins it could signify something of a sea change.

I would like to suggest that Indians of all political stripes take an open-minded look at Reddy's candidacy. I realize this may be hard for Indian-American Republicans given the way that Indian leftists have piled on Bobby Jindal (in one case, calling him "worse than the KKK" on this very site), but principle is worth striving for. That's not to say Indian-American Republicans should jettison their principles, but clearly the success of Indian-Americans at high levels in politics bodes well for us all.

Regards,
-Bob
MinorityRetort
http://www.MinorityRetort.com
"Cause Not All Minorities Think Alike"

Curious what Reddy means by "Making sure that your vote counts". Is he a Diebold/Something-happened-in-Ohio conpiracist?

Bob,

Either he is, or he's trying to energize the Atlanta area Democrats who buy into this "my vote doesn't count" nonsense. Earlier this week, even Hillary recently took a departure from the moderate lip service to return to her leftist roots by proclaliming to "make sure every vote counts". The audience loved it. Regardless of whether they belive it or not, it's red meat for the rabid left-wing base. Unfortunately, some sincere people get misled in the process, which is also the intention

return to her leftist roots by proclaliming to "make sure every vote counts"

This is leftist how? Isn't it the basis of democracy?

I should hope that both, nay, ALL parties, and persons on any continuum of the political spectrum who believe in the democratic process would make "making every vote count" a priority.

return to her leftist roots by proclaliming to "make sure every vote counts"

This is leftist how? Isn't it the basis of democracy?

Andrea - I think what Bob's referring to is the verbal slight of hand / framing that "directional" phrases like this are meant to encode.

e.g. when Hillary says "I'm going to make every vote count" she's also saying "because Bush's 2004 election victory was proof that not every vote counted." She's close to making a claim that's a precious few steps away from calling into question the validity of the entire election process....

That's not to say that framing isn't used all over the place (e.g. what's a Progressive? why, it's someone who's made "progress" over the status quo, of course! Or, on the other side of the aisle -- what's "tax relief"? why, it's an attempt to remove something that's unjustly burdening you...)

But, I do agree with Bob that this particulra meme -- which eventually grows to imply that all elections that don't elect democrats are, well, a sham -- is particularly destructive & childish. Clever framing though!

Andrea,
thanks for seeking further clarification.

What she is saying is not democracy because it is based on a lie. That people were prevented from voting in OH, or had their votes discarded. They even said that about FL this time too.

Of course there is no proof to any of these charges, but that's not the point. It's a two-pronged strategy they employ to really get the felons to vote and curb any serious restriction on vote fraud-a major problem in U.S. elections, because guess who that benefits, right?

I thought Democracy had something to do with fair elections too, but after what happened in Washington State regarding illegal ballots, felons voting, etc.. it apparently does not to some people.

Sincerely,
-Sidharth
MinorityRetort
http://www.MinorityRetort.com
"Cause Not All Minorities Think Alike"

Vinod,

Interesting dissection. Have you been reading Lakoff's work on framing? (the phrase "tax relief" made me think Lakoff cause he loves explaining the frame it invokes and the master narrative that follows). I read his "Don't think of an Elephant" and lately his more textbook-like Metaphors We Live By. Frames are certainly a very clever way of conjuring imagery and suggesting controversial points without making them outright (and having to be held account for doing so).

Sid- you make a good point. For liberals to suggest every vote must count is for them to imply that every vote is not currently being counted (otherwise why say it?!). In a Democracy, you count the votes; afterwards, it is just as important for the people to, so long as their is no significant concrete evidence of malfeasance, accept the results of the election. To do otherwise is to unnecessarily do injury to the credibility of our system of democracy, here and abroad. While Reddy and others try to score a few points with their base, I hope they bear this in mind.

Vinod you stated "Perhaps the South isn't as irredeemably racist as a lot of Coastal Liberals like to think?"
You would not be thinking so if you had ever stopped at a Dairy Queen hand in hand with a white woman in rural Georgia. I have and trust me the Dixiecrats are still well and alive there. ( I only shudder to think what their reaction would be to a man with any other man)

georgia is quickly becoming an honorary northeast state with its rising PPP and urban qualities (existing honorary northeast states include: california, michigan). Currenty fuzzy NE hopefuls: florida, georgia, texas, ohio. They're red-states, but have a streak of blue in 'em.

Ohio is hardly a red state. It has three big blue centers of population in Cleveland, Cincinnati and Columbus. Also Ohio voted for Clinton twice and if Al Gore had not foolishly pulled out all advertising from Ohio the world would have been a different place. Also remember that Bush barely won Ohio in 04.
As to Florida, Clinton won it twice and Gore almost did as well. Bush won this time by 2 percentage points ( not a landslide) Miami is a blue city and so are Orlando and Tampa. It is only the rural north in Florida which could be truly categorized as a red area.

Every vote is not currently being counted.

Isn't anyone here familiar with the voting problems in Ohio and Florida? And the security problems with voting? See blackboxvoting.com.

There are Indian politicans and businessmen with roots here in the Atlanta metro community, but rural Georgia is another story.

yea. i tend to read things literally when on zero hours of sleep.

I do see the framing there. But framing is really part of any political dialogue. "Progressive" is another good example. So are "pro-life," "activist judges," and even the words "leftist" and "whining liberals" ... I think people should recognize the framing, but not necessarily condemn it because it is practiced liberally (no pun intended) on both sides.

As for the literal issue: I am unaware of any actual accusations of vote fraud from 2004 election. However, it is hard to confirm or deny without a paper trail, and letting the rabble, if we so choose, recount the ballots for our own damn selves. "Papa knows best" government where these things are hidden from us is far from a conservative position, and it does undermine the democratic system. It works in a totalitarian or theocratic or fascist system, but not in a democracy, whether liberals or conservatives are in power.

But I doubt you'd get any serious inquiry on either side at this point in time, as our elected officials seem more bent on keeping their own in power than actually promoting democracy (i.e. voting along party lines and taking money from special interests instead of listening to their constituency.) And I'm cynical of both Democrats AND Republicans in this regard.

will be interesting if a non-judeo-christian can get elected in georgia. googled him and his mother is active at a hindu temple and the pictures with his wife renee at the wedding seem like it was traditional hindu rather than white christian.

I am unaware of any actual accusations of vote fraud from 2004 election.

Here's one of several -- I like this particular one b/c it comes from our almost-president and b/c the bloggers actually bothered to fact check the accusation and found the only source on... a humor site -

Kerry also cited examples Sunday of how people were duped into not voting.

"Leaflets are handed out saying Democrats vote on Wednesday, Republicans vote on Tuesday. People are told in telephone calls that if you’ve ever had a parking ticket, you’re not allowed to vote,” he said.

Pretty shameful, IMHO. One can only imagine how Slate et. al. would be all over it if a Republican said it.

You're dinging Kerry for citing unreliable sources by citing Little Green Footballs?! I quote from a post on their unbiased front page:

The excitable, illiterate inmates of Democratic Underground are working themselves up into a lather again; time to increase the lithium dosage... these blind fools are having the vapors about fundamentalist Christians, in Britain another representative of the Religion of Peace™ [Islam] has been convicted of plotting mass murder...

C'mon, man. Work a little harder to verify your facts.

uh... you could've clicked through the links in LGF and discovered that the original Kerry comments were carried in Wired mag.

work a little harder to click through ;-)

I was referring to the LGF's accusation that Kerry lied.

It's possible that's the case, but you cite an LGF reader's 'hat-tip' as the proof, which is, frankly, laughable.

The comments above are interesting.

Voting rights is an important issue in GA right now because the State Legislature passed some of the most restrictive voting requirements in the country, requiring a drivers license or photo id before voting. This was done despite the fact that there have been no reported cases in the Sec. of State's office of voter fraud by using fake identification sources.

Rural voters in GA are important but are not dominant. Rather, suburban and ex-subsurban voters are the key to victory for statewide office. These voters might be perplexed at the extremities of the Republican Gov. and Republican Legislature.

GA was the most progressive state in the South until 2003 when Gov. Perdue rose to power. Now it's in a bit of a freefall. It's hard to believe that the state hosted the Olympics less than ten years ago. Gov. Barnes' courageous efforts to change the state flag cost him and the Democrats control of the Gov's mansion and the State Legislature.

All these factors hopefully provide some sense of the playing field in GA and what Shyam Reddy faces. Support from the Indian-American community is crucial.

Ok, back to abhi's original point about counter-intutition, I say: stop trusting your male intuition, then! It's steering you wrong...

(I kid. I kid, :) )

Also, the Wired article says Kerry says 'cited examples Sunday of how numerous people were duped into not voting..."

Al Mujahid: I grew up in flyover country and didn't have a problem, really. Sad that you had a different experience. Anyhoo, I'm not that impressed with the moral superiousness/ity of the East Coasters - I mean, there's tons of cool people here, but there were tons back home too. What I see is a veneer of sophistication which, when you scratch it a little, if full of as many foibles and weaknesses and goodnesses as the back-home flyover country types. I mean, my coastal city is awfully segregated....

Can a brother get anywhere without marrying a Renee!

I was being sarcastic/funny in the above post and not implying that there is anything wrong per se in marrying a White person or a person with a French/Anglo name.

For every silly Kerry quote you pull, I can pull twenty stupid W quotes. So bring it on!

Anyway voting machines are an issue in Georgia because:
a. they are made by Diebold (see the Wikipedia article on Diebold)
b. when they were used in 2002, Perdue (R) and Chambliss (R) won a governor and senator race respectively even though they were polling behind the incumbents.
c. the Secretary of State Cathy Cox (D) has claimed that the technology isn't available yet to create printed receipts of every vote, which is a lie.

Here's a good article about voting machines: http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040816&s=dugger

"One of the interesting lessons that the world can look at is Pakistan. You see, there are some in the world who do not believe that a Muslim society can self-govern. Some believe that the only solution for government in parts of the world is for there to be tyranny or despotism. I don't believe that. The Pakistani people have proven that those cynics are wrong." _ GWB, December 4, 2004

LGF's accusation that Kerry lied.

I was referring to the fact that - with ZERO cited evidence - Kerry actually believes that the vote was rigged. For me, it's unfortunate that so many prominent Dems buy into this Zeitgeist without having huge proof to back it up.

And that - circling back to the original thread - is why "making sure every vote counts" is a screen for a much bigger claim.

alas, big claims require big proof.

Dude, the Globe and the Times have run massive pieces on irregularities in the 2004 vote. Given the 2000 election, it bears looking into. You yourself were complaining about Dem vote fraud, as far as I recall.

My point is, I don't go around citing Atrios when trying to prove a point. Citing red meat political blogs as evidence leaves you wide open.

Uh, no, Manish. I'm complaining very specifically about Kerry (of all people) saying "Democrats were told to vote on Wed, Republicans on Tue" while not citing evidence.

He's free to stake his credibility on the claim but it's laughable that the only source folks could find was the Onion.

The original source -- just a few precious mouse clicks away -- was Wired Mag, NOT a "red meat political blog"

And the Globe / Times / etc. pieces are more evidence to Andrea's (original, innocent) inquiry that she hadn't heard of alleged voting irregularities being raised by the Dems.

I'm complaining very specifically about Kerry... not citing evidence.

Source cites are commonly not given in speeches. They're given in writing and in endnotes via the staff.

... it's laughable that the only source folks could find was the Onion.

Kerry has presumption. The way to disprove it is ask him for his sources and indict those sources, if given. You're friggin' quoting an LGF reader's random Googling as if it's evidence?

You've just granted presumption to one of the most frothing wingnut blog in existence over a presidential candidate. That quite speaks for itself.

Interesting rehash of the 2004 race in the above comments. Reddy's has a shot in GA. It'll be interesting to see how Indian-American Republicans will react to a moderate Democrat.

"It'll be interesting to see how Indian-American Republicans will react to a moderate Democrat."

Interesting ? How ? Hardly any of them exist in that state ?

"Rural voters in GA are important but are not dominant. Rather, suburban and ex-subsurban voters are the key to victory for statewide office. These voters might be perplexed at the extremities of the Republican Gov. and Republican Legislature."

But aren't there more rural areas than metropolitan one's? Therefore, it would seem that all rural area voters taken together would even or outnumber city voters.

One more point. When i lived in Atlanta, it was predominantly black. The two major counties there, DeKalb and Fulton, are counties where whites are a small minority. Among Atlanta area whites, there is a high concentration of Jews who are another liberal voting block. Additionally, you have Emory University, the Center for Diesease Control and Prevention, GA Tech, GA State. All these factors adds up to a Atlanta being a very liberal area.

However, the greater Atlanta area suburbs of Cobb County such as Marietta and Smyrna, are overwhelmingly white, and Republican. Cobb county used to be the district of Newt Gingrich, now by John Linder. It is a Republican stronghold.

So when we refer to Atlanta being blue, it's important to distinguish between the urban pre-dominantly black counties of DeKalb and Fulton (BLUE), and the suburban pre-dominantly white Cobb County (RED). Once again, as in most states, the urban/suburban factor is at work here.

So how does this all playout for Reddy ?
He will have to win more votes from Cobb county and the rural areas, as Cathy Cox did, to win the general election.

Can Reddy accomplish this ? It depends on his oppenents in the primary. Considering that the Democratic primary voters, heavily concentrated in Atlanta, tend to be hard-left as noticed in far-left Cynthia McKinney crushing her moderate democrat opponent Chris Vaugh in DeKalb county.

The primary doesn't generally favor moderates, presuming that Reddy is one, unless it's a clean field with only Reddy running. But if he tacks to the left, it will only hurt him in the general election in the suburban and rural areas.

And since Purdue's election, Atlanta has gotten more Republican, evidenced in the takeover of the legislature by Republicans in the last election. I don't think such a thing has ever happened in GA before.

A definite uphill battle for Reddy. Curious to see what strategy he employs.

BTW, Barnes was a very conservative pro-life Democrat. Not the kind many in the party would consider a "progressive". I think the other statewide elected democrats are more conservative too.

Sincerely,
Sid
MinorityRetort
http://www.MinorityRetort.com
"Cause Not All Minorities Think Alike"

Well, I found some stuff that wasn't from The Onion, Vinod. It took me 10 minutes.

Here's a news media citation for the parking ticket half of Kerry's accusations and here's how I found it.

Here's a Washington post citation for the "Democrats vote Wednesday" claim (as well as other accounts of irregularities.

If you're going to attack someone's credibility, you need to be able to back it up.