A fav, non-desi blog of mine, Winds of Change looks to India for a model for Iraq -
When India was trying to fight separatist Sikh terrorists in Punjab, a Sikh police officer named KPS Gill played a pivotal role in giving the anti-terrorism effort legitimacy among Punjabi Sikhs and among all Indians....Who can play the role of Iraq's KPS Gill?
Uhh.. you can definitely file KPS Gill under 'Police Rapists.' This scumbag is one of the most wretched men to ever have walked this earth.
KPS Gill is a great guy. He's the main reason why there is peace and prosperity in Punjab. I wish every town in this world has a cop like Gill.
the attitude of shakes P Iyer is essentially why so much lassitude and slack is given to genocidal maniacs who slaughter in the name of India and walk free and happy. The spirit of pogroms and godhra and all the rest of it lives and breathes in shakes P Iyer, article 1 in the dusty unpleasent road that leads to the monstrous maniac Modi
This is a Kung Fu post, please control your emotions :-D
If KPS Gill had entered Gujarat and shot dead Hindu rioters on sight before they got the chance to rape Muslim girls and women, set fire to Muslim men, decapitate and dissect Muslim grandmothers and grandfathers, pull Muslim babies apart limb from limb like cooked chickens, if KPS Gill had gone into Gujarat and shot dead en masse every Hindu who even looked like they were going to commit genocide against Muslims, every Hindu with a glint of Muslim Genocide in his eye, set up firing squads to deal with this, it would have been excellent.
Its about time India had a super-cop to deal with Hindu Genocidal Maniac Terrorists who commit pogroms on the orders of politicians. India needs a Super-Cop to protect its minorities from these Monsters and RSS Cannibals.
Indeed, if every town had a cop like Gill, Indians of the non Hindu variety would feel safe from harm from these genocidal terrorists, and I agree, I wish they all had a cop like Gill.
I'm sorry if my language grates the nerves of some, it is intended to highlight the objectification of people as collective menaces and how quickly this can lead to horror and collective punishment.
Meanwhile, from the BBC, more of the Supercop, looks like he is also a SuperPervert:
He and his team have been accused of committing excesses in the name of stamping out terrorism.
Then in the mid-1990s, a senior female civil servant from Punjab, Rupan Deol Bajaj, sued him successfully for sexual harassment.
Mr Gill had to pay a hefty fine and was sentenced to three years in prison which was later reduced to probation.
Naughty Mr Gill. I dont know, maybe Shakes P Iyer likes Sexual Perverts in his town, I dont know, make up your own mind ;-)
Then in the mid-1990s, a senior female civil servant from Punjab, Rupan Deol Bajaj, sued him successfully for sexual harassment.
Well, from what I remember about the case, he patted Ms. Bajaj's derrière at a party when he was drunk.. I'm not condoning this - just pointing out that it was a drunk moment at a party, not something that happened over a long period of time.
Its hard to believe that one man could have solved the 'Khalistan' problem in Punjab.
Maybe someone here could enlighten us on what were the various factors behind the demise of the 'Khalistan' movement.
The Russian army has been pretty tough in Chechnya too. It has only added fuel to the fire. I am not so sure that these getting tough tactics can work in isolation.
What about the Pakistan factor ? Its common knowledge that the Khalistani seperatists were getting support from the ISI and other Pakistani agencies. In the mid 80's, the Pakistani establishment shifted their focus and resources from Punjab to Indian controlled Kashmir. This also might have played a part in brining an end to the 'Khalistan' movement.
Maybe someone here could enlighten us on what were the various factors behind the demise of the 'Khalistan' movement.
There's an interesting analysis here.
The article is implying that some of the seperatists turned into criminals and lost their support base in the general public.
All violent seperatist movements have a criminal element.
Al Mujahid
There was never any real common movement for Khalistan amongst Sikhs in Punjab. It reached its heights after the violence and brutality of 1984 as a reaction to that violence. Sikhs were and still are amongst the most patriotic of all Indians. The fuel came mainly from the diaspora, as is always the case. Look at Kashmiri, Tamil and RSS extremists abroad.
Ultimately Indira Gandhi should take responsibility. If she had not propagated Bhinderanwale to split the Akali Dal vote Punjab would not have descended into hell for a decade. Another example of the decrepitude and evil of Indian politicians. Bhinderanwale never had popular support.
"super-cop"....maybe for those outside Punjab, only those that faced the brutality and uncivil punishment that violated the humane treatment of international standards, know what kind of person this fake and coward "super-cop" really is...so before you label this coward a hero, get some insight from the thousands of innocent individuals that were slaughtered under his control...and don't worry he'll get his.
I think a major factor in the demise of the "movement" was the decade of detentions and disappearances, extra-judicial killings of suspects and wanton murdering of innocent civilians, including human rights activists who tried to expose KPS Gill's crimes against humanity.
As far as Khalistan, I agree that there was no "movement" per se. Just a bunch of self-declared "panthic leaders" who had no vision or strategy for achieving unity, let alone a Sikh state. More of the usual jockeying for power in Punjab politics, however, this time w/ deadly results.
Gurpreet Malik
At the end, the whole thing became an intra-Jatt blood feud, especially when the militants started targetting the families of Jatt police men and killing them. Those police men, led by Gill, took part in a 'crackdown' that took on the frenzy of a revenge tragedy. It was effectively a police state, with dissapearances and staged encounters in a manner similar to the South American Military Junta's cracked down on people in the 1970's and 1980's.
But the primary responsibility rests with Indira and the centre for promoting the fanatics, and upping the ante in a febrile political climate of Punjab. They must never be forgiven for that.
Hi,
Singh is right. The Punjab problem was essentially a caste war which snowballed into a terrorist campaign, thanks to Indira Gandhi's playing with fire by pandering to Bhindranwale, and later after Bluestar, a combination of anger at Bluestar with Pakistani and expat support for Punjabi terrorists. It did become a police state for some years, given the breakdown of local political and policing. It is also convenient to blame the Punjab police for a lot of the violence perpetrated, however this ignores the fact that attempts to restore ordinary civil government machinery were repeatedly thwarted by terrorist attacks. To give an example, as late as 1990-91 when an attempt to hold statewide elections was made, in the weeks preceding the elections, about 950 candidates for the legislative assembly were killed and the elections had to be called off.
It is also a convenient fiction to believe that Punjab cooled down because Pakistan shifted its activities towards "indian controlled kashmir". The truth is that local support dwindled for the terrorist campaign, and coupled with better security campaigns, it became hard for them to operate. It also helped that India pretty much threatened war during that period. A similar thing is happening with the situation in Jammu and Kashmir, where matters have improved considerably. It is going to be interesting to see how Pakistan and its great leader deal with the murderers they have trained, now that sending them across the border is increasingly not an option.
v
I dont share your sanguine and forgetful view of the situation. The violence was ultimately defeated because Sikh masses had no truck with it. To say it was 'only' a caste war is facile. You misunderstand. They still had to put up with all the bullshit that the Indian state threw at it indiscriminately including the 1984 massacres which were nothing more than state sponsored terrorism, something the Republic of India is very good at.
The ultimate blame lies with Indira Gandhi, and the whole thing sows how vulnerable Indian minorites are to the machinations of the power deranged politicians.
Funny that it should be brought up this late. Anklesaria Aiyar, my favorite desi columnist, had addressed the issue almost a year earlier in this article:
http://www.swaminomics.org/articles/20040502_lessons_from_punjab_for_us.htm#top
I agree with Singh in large part. It vexes me that in the diaspora some people are still thinking it was realistic. The sikh community in the diaspora needs to be more hetereogenious
Raju, what the hell are you talking about? Get the hell off your pompous high horse. Dont take my comments as an assent to your ignorance and stupidity. Who are you to tell Sikhs that they need to be more 'hetereogenious' in the diaspora? Sikhs are as successful and as creative and as liberal and free as any other 'community' in the diaspora. Some people are so STUPID it is unbelievable. Who the hell are you pontificating about Sikhs in the diaspora, what a joke! My point is that extremism has a history of flourishing in diaspora groups, including cannibals in the Hindu diaspora who support anti-Muslim genocide in Gujarat, do they need to be more 'heterogenious'? I wasnt singling Sikhs out any more than I was singling Hindus out for the sake of the genocide supporting Monsters that live amongst them.
What a half-witted and clueless response.
Other examples; Tamil Hindus, Muslims of many diffrent ethnicities.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
Would it be fair to say that the 'Khalistan' issue was more of a revenge issue for the Delhi pogrom of Sikhs and the attack on the Golden temple than a movement for national liberation ?
Maybe that is why the movement died. Revenge movements usually run out of steam eventually.
KPS Gill is a mass torturer as evidenced by report from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and dozens of torture victims living here in New York City.
Regarding the Khalistan movement, India is a construct of British imperialism. It's a shame that Sikhs have to live in a political set up where they can be the subject of mass killings at any moment. It is shame that Sikh have to live in a place where any Sikh, including the Prime Minister, must deny or keep silent that murder, rape, and torture was the instrument of choice by the state in the 1980s and 1990s and would be wielded again if the state deems it necessary. Can you imagine a black U.S. President appointing people to his cabinet who participated in lynchings? Manmohan Singh has had to do the equivalent to keep his position. It's disgusting.
The fact that KPS Gill would be called a hero by anyone, much less hundreds of millions of Indians, just goes to show how sick Indian society has become. He's a murderer. Amazingly, he's also considered a hero. Why do Sikhs have to live in this environment?
As they say, "the victors write the history."
India is a construct of British imperialism...
It's more like the EU. If the Brits hadn't arrived, India would still have coalesced. Barring vast natural resources, the microstate model has proven an abject failure.
I think you're stretching it Manish - some Indian states are more populous than most other countries. If UP was its own country, it would be the 6th largest country in the world, with 166 million people. That's just 10 mil less than Brazil and 20 mil more than Russia.
Maharashtra has roughly 97 million residents, just 2 million fewer than Mexico and over 10 million more than Germany. If Maharashtra and UP were to split from India and join forces, they alone would be the 4th largest country in the world, considerably larger than Indonesia and just a smidge smaller than the USA.
Even now, the center has trouble administering this many people, let alone distributing services to them. Yet, at independence, Nehru went back on promises of a federal state and insisted on a strongly unitary one with the states having minor powers. One wonders if there would have been less bloodshed and faster growth if power had been decentralized rather than tightly held and micromanaged from Delhi.
I wish India was like the EU. At the very least severe, crippling state violence wouldn't be hang over our heads. A Punjabi nation would be bigger than more than 95 of the world's countries including Portugal, Greece, the Netherlands, and Ireland.
The difference between the India and the EU is that one is held together at the point of the gun (all three non-Hindu states -- Kashmir, Punjab, Nagaland have wanted out at different times), whereas the other is held together by consent and the popular vote.
... some Indian states are more populous than most other countries.
Population alone doesn't suffice. GNP and natural resources are critical. The microstates would suffer compared to the rolled-up whole. You see it with most states that have disintegrated along ethnic lines.
one is held together at the point of the gun...
Far be it from me to defend the abuses of the Indian government (or for that matter the various separatists). But most states, including the U.S., react with force when their territorial integrity is threatened. If the separatists' real issues could be peacefully resolved, the larger state is far preferable from a basic economic calculation.
Self-respect-- yes, absolutely. Stop the killings and torture-- yes, absolutely. But at the end of the day, Punjab is wealthier as a part of India, from the standpoint of pure self-interest. And a Sikh who happens to be critical to India's resurgence is prime minister.
the microstate model has proven an abject failure.
Singapore? Hong Kong? Taiwan? Ireland? Switzerland?
Singapore? Hong Kong? Taiwan? Ireland? Switzerland?
GNP? Educational system? Decentralized, non-agrarian economy?
Manish - many of the countries V lists started out poor. Taiwan was an agrarian economy in the 1950s, around $100/cap GDP. However, Taiwan, Ireland and Singapore invested heavily in their people and were able to leap forward. That kind of investment in human capital is hard to do in a large, bloated, centralized state.
Don't get me wrong. I believe the idea of "India" -- a place where diverse religions and nations can live in one state is a noble and beautiful aspiration.
Nevertheless, that aspiration is something to which the people should agree. It shouldn't be forced at the point of a gun (which is all that holds Kashmir and Nagaland now, and all that held Punjab during state elections in 1992).
Canada held a referendum in Quebec. The United States held a referendum in Puerto Rico. Morocco agreed in 1998 to a UN organized referendum on independence for the Western Sahara. France has agreed to hold a referendum in New Caledonia on whether it will remain a part of France or become independent. The people of East Timor were able to vote to determine their political status.
Why is the world's "largest democracy" so far behind? It's probably because most people in India consider KPS Gill a hero.
For more information what happened in Punjab and KPS Gill's role in it, visit: http://www.punjabjustice.org/interviews.htm. Those of use who are skeptical of India, say so through bitter experience. Tens of thousands of suffered brutal torture and extrajudicial death, a handful were punished. The chief architect sits in Delhi and is considered a hero.
It shouldn't be forced at the point of a gun...
Agree, but what if a province in the middle of the country rather than on the border wants to go its own way? There are practicalities to consider. Separately, would Punjab secede today?
Tens of thousands of suffered brutal torture and extrajudicial death, a handful were punished. The chief architect sits in Delhi and is considered a hero.
I've seen the photos of tortured young Sikhs, they're incredibly disturbing. Justice still hasn't been done in Punjab, in the anti-Sikh riots in Delhi, or more recently in Gujarat. These are the deepest stains in India's recent history.
Singh,
what is your problem?
As someone pointed out KPS Gill used the gun (and yes, bestiality) to root out terrorists who were even more of beasts. This is Bush in a smaller scale.
The terrorists killed family members of policemen. And the policemen in turn made the family members of terrorists disappear. Over time the police won. Period.
There is no other way of doing it with religious fundoos. So KPS Gill is a good model for Iraq (which I think was the first point in any case). Someone worse than KPS Gill will need to be there - since these are not Punjab terrorists, these are Islamists Jihadis - worse beasts. Much, much, much worse.
As for Bruce Lee's comments on Hindu fundoos, I don't know his origins but he might just check to see what has been going on the US and what is beginning to happen in UK to know how the minorities are protected or not. And their disorder hasn't yet begun. The biggest asset minorities have is the Hindu majority.
KPS = Killer, he led the genocide against his own people. No worries he will get his, it cometh, and justice will prevail.
In the mean time let it be known that this so called supper-cop, or what ever his puppet masters call him is so free that he has to live behind high walls, under armed protection, and has to hide like a little rat that he is. That is indeed the life of a true hero.
What kind of a Punjabi is he that he can't even live in Punjab. Forget live, he can't even walk down a street in Punjab (not without a battalion of men to hide behind). That is a hero indeed.
India has hurt the Sikhs, the very people that bent over backwards to protect the country, in the times of need. Indias freedoms and democracy were bought and paid for by Sikh blood.
Shame for KPS GILL, Shame on India, Shame for Hindu Terrorists like Nathu Ram Godse, RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena.
KPS GILL (a convicted sexual offender) was a guy who with the help of Indian security forces killed hundereds of thousands of Sikh boys, disposed their dead bodies in the rivers/cremated 25000 dead bodies in three cremation grounds of Amritsar, Patti and Tarn Taran, raped hundereds of Sikh girls.
Remember, British ruled Indian sub-continet with the same tactics but finally they had to loose. It took 90 years after 1857's biggest freedom struggle to get independence.
For you a convicted sexual offender might be a hero but for us he was a a symbol of Tyrant India. We would love to transfer this hate to our kids. Remember ! 90 years have not passed yet.
R Singh
