Start with the circumcision!

Should be interesting viewing, but it may fall into the Norman Lear school of tolerance. That is, all the differences among people are superficial, that deep down, we are all the same (A theme that ran through Norman Lear shows of the 70s - All in the Family, The Jeffersons, Rhoda). Well intentioned, but naive.

After all, tolerance is not always a good thing. Suppose this Christian man were to overhear some of his Muslim neighbors spouting some anti-Semitic nonsense, should he be tolerant and keep his mouth shut?

The producers seem to be setting up a straw man argument. If the producers want American viewers to understand how tough life can be for a Muslim family, you could also set the story in France (where Muslims live in horrid housing projects in Parisian suburbs), Britain (where Muslim youths are the fastest rising portion of the prison population) or almost Any Muslim nation, where you have to deal with a corrupt goovernment.

It would have been nice if they chose a South Asian Muslim family - since there are more South Asian Muslims living in American than Arab Muslims. For Islam to flourish and modernize, it needs to become less Arabic.

After all, tolerance is not always a good thing

So what your saying is that, no matter where you are from, people can't be as equally stupid? Why is it wrong to show that people are essentially the same, that they just dress, eat, or believe in life differently? Don't we all have to take a crap the same way? And I think your misconstruing tolerance with acceptance. Tolerance does have multiple meanings.

The producers seem to be setting up a straw man argument. If the producers want American viewers to understand how tough life can be for a Muslim family, you could also set the story in France (where Muslims live in horrid housing projects in Parisian suburbs), Britain (where Muslim youths are the fastest rising portion of the prison population) or almost Any Muslim nation, where you have to deal with a corrupt goovernment.

Yeah, try getting the typical American -- and no, I'm not just talking about the righ-wing wasp either -- to bother learning or understanding about other parts of the world. Plus I think it's fairly relevant for Americans to take a look at the continuning and perpeutating stereoptyical bullshit dressed up as common thought being torn down on their TVs.

I doubt the million Muslim march will garner much support.There was something like that called for in DC some months ago which drew barely a handful of Muslims and their sympathizers.

Yeah.. so I saw it tonight. It was alright. Muslims (and those others assume to be muslim - e.g. Sikhs, or anyone brown and not latino) definitely have prejudice working against them and it's good to see efforts to expand understanding and eliminate hyberbolized and unfounded stereotypes. That said, The Daily Show probably instills sanity into its audience quicker than anything else. In contrast, tonight's 30 Days was not really awe-inspiring for those of us capable of pointing out Turkey on a map.

As much I sympathize with the discriminated, I do need to point out how I have to side with those who find loud prayer calls in the day extremely obnoxious. Noise pollution is pollution - I don't care if it's Sinatra - I don't want to be inundated with loud, distracting sounds while studying. Religious rights shouldn't encroach on others' rights to ignore religion. I support Atheists and their attempts to have 'under God' stricken from classroom indoctrination, I oppose displaying the Ten Commandments in courts, and in the same spirit of the previous two, I wish Religious broadcasts capable of penetrating my palisaded home were banned. For that matter, any broadcast so deafening needs to be banned.

I'm flexible: if the Imams independently fund R&D into noise-cancellation and allow nearby residents to freely subscribe to avoid being in the destructive path of impending sonic waves, then I suppose their mosque may be granted exemption from the ban.

Start with the circumcision!

most american males are circumcised. 80% in the age group of this guy.

also, most american muslims don't dress non-mainstream. i mean, muslim chicks don't wear shorts all the time, but i would be willing to bet most american muslim females who identify as muslim do not even wear headscarves (though i could be mistaken).

Proving once again what a small world we live in, it turns out that the 27 year old Muslim man Shamael Haque that played host to the "all-American" Christian man in Wednesday night's episode was my sparring partner on the University of Michigan Boxing team.

I stand corrected - the host family was Pakistani, not Arab. But, one could be forgiven for making that mistake - since the couple in question pretty much adopted Arab cuisine, dress style, and behavior. Babaganouch and hummus, while tasty, are not traditional Pakistani food. The head scarf was alien to Pakistan prior to Zia's Islamization scheme of the 80's. And this whole idea that a Muslim woman cannot be alone with a male non-relative is new to me. Maybe Naipaul was on target regarding Pakistanis insecurity about their identity and place in the Muslim world.

One part which I found touching was when David Stacy talked with the Iraqi shopkeeper, who lost 2 brothers to Saddam's thugs. It seems long ago, but there was genuine jubiliation in places like Dearborn after Saddam fell.

I share Punjabi Boi's opinion regarding the call to prayer - it is way too intrusive.

The head scarf was alien to Pakistan prior to Zia's Islamization scheme of the 80's

Thats true. Hijab is an Arab custom. Orthodox Christians in Eastern Europe and Russia also wear a hijab like scarf.
Traditional Muslim women in South Asia usually wear Burqas or Chaddor.
Pakistanis have told me that the number of women who wear Hijab in Pakistan is very small. Same for India. Its interesting to note that the Desi Muslims in the US do wear Hijab in huge numbers.

Maybe Naipaul was on target regarding Pakistanis insecurity about their identity and place in the Muslim world.
Naipul is absolutely correct in his analysis of Pakistan's 'Muslim' identity crisis.

KXB wrote:
I stand corrected - the host family was Pakistani, not Arab

The host family was not Pakistani, it was American. I'm just guessing, but that may have been the point of the show.

The headscarf and Arabic food are part of American Muslim culture, partly because Arabs were the first American Muslims, partly becuase of the prestige of the Arabic language. American Muslims, especially desis, often reject their parents curry-smelling-FOB immigrant heritage and show their Americanization by embracing the accoutrements of American Islam -- which includes summer camps, basketball, and headscarves.

and show their Americanization by embracing the accoutrements of American Islam -- which includes summer camps, basketball, and headscarves

So true and dont forget Sunday school and concern for Palestine/'ummah'. Also pronoucing common names of South Asian Muslims with a ridiculously fake Arab accent.

American Muslims, especially desis, often reject their parents curry-smelling-FOB immigrant heritage

This has tradtitionally been true. Mostly because the Arabs were not mocked in the popular culture (accents etc.,) at the same level that the Desis were.
In the Post 9-11 world I predict that the new religious generation of Desi Muslims are going to re-discover their South Asian roots and de-emphasize the connections with their Arab brethren.

Hmmm, I noticed in the show that the family (and their muslim friends) were pretty normally-dressed for American middle class; the wore jeans and khakis, t-shirts and polos, they did not have "beards" so to speak instead they had a few days gowth. They did wear a muslim 'cap' (sorry, I don't know the name) infrequently and more prominetly at the begining of the show. The test subject, OTOH, worre the long, one-piece robe and the head cap at all times (I suspect that was a requirement of Spurlock's). The women wore pretty mainstream, middle-class clothing (slacks, blouses) and the only distinguishing item was the patterned head scarf.

One part I found telling is the muslim he spoke to about praying who was in the process of setting up a mosque. The man was older, with a neatly-trimmed, very short beard; he was (again) dressed like any middle-class American; and he had simple pamphlets showing stick-figure diagrams on how to pray and short passages about what each part meant. It seemed he was trying to appeal to part-time muslims and potential muslims among the American middle-class.

Save for the scenes at the butcher and at the family's mosque, islam was taken pretty lightly and unobtrusively (and even they were not intense)

Could the American Middle-class be modernizing Islam? That would be a good thing and that was the unintentional message I took from the show.

You are all missing the point.

The talk show host KNOWS that this march will be a failure, that is his whole point: American Muslims do NOT renounce and will not renounce terrorism. They don't demonstrate against it because they BELIEVE in it. That is why the talk show host is doing this, to make that very point!

Islam Watcher:

You are absolutely right. You will never find any national Islamic peace movement. Yet they will always protest about the supposed wrongs done to them. Wasn't there a saying "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." So where are the good Muslim men and women ? Many of us would like to know.

Almujahid--

Don't forget saying 'ramadhan' instead of 'ramzan'. And subscribing to the Shafi'i madhab instead of the Hanafi madhab. There are clear pluses too -- women attend mosque in the USA, unlike in Hindustan. And there is that overall American 'can-do' attitude, which infects everything in American life.

I don't think your prediction of post-9-11 Desi Muslims is going to come true. But I no longer live in the USA, so you'll have to keep me posted.

Could the American Middle-class be modernizing Islam? That would be a good thing and that was the unintentional message I took from the show

Scott get off your cloud. Your statement improperly assumes Islam is ahistorical or un-modernized. Moreover, your post exhibits your ignorance of how common Muslim people live their day to day lives in the US and certainly abroad. If you lacked such ignorance, you might come to realize that Muslims in other countries live very similar lives to those depicted in the show. Hence, the "American Middle class" has little relevance.

So where are the good Muslim men and women ? Many of us would like to know.

show their Americanization by embracing the accoutrements of American Islam -- which includes summer camps, basketball, and headscarves So true and dont forget Sunday school and concern for Palestine/'ummah'. Also pronoucing common names of South Asian Muslims with a ridiculously fake Arab accent.

Oof how corny is that!? Reminds me of how hard the socialites in Bombay and Delhi try to act, look and talk "American". It appears in the movies too (e.g. Dhoom).

American Muslims do NOT renounce and will not renounce terrorism. They don't demonstrate against it because they BELIEVE in it.

Who let the trolls out? Woof...woof...woof..woof..

I should start a website called trollwatcher.com. Actually, nevermind, doing so might make me (even) stupider....

vurdlife:
Shame on me ? Perhaps you need to pay more attention to the news: Check out how a country with a Muslim majority treats a minority: Hindus Deplore Destruction of Hindu Temple by Saudi Arabia's Religious Police

Yes, indeed, what would Gandhiji say ?

Sorry botched that link...this one works

Hindus Deplore Destruction of Hindu Temple by Saudi Arabia's Religious Police

The Taliban destroyed Buddhist, Sikh and Hindu sites too. The Saudi government is a bunch of nuts and Muslim extremism is an enduring problem. But shame on you for

a) implying in your post that there are no good Muslims out there.
b) agreeing with Islam watcher's blanket that American muslims support terrorism.

I am sure there are good Muslims out there (by "good" do you mean those that can abide by the laws of the country they reside in and not their personal Sharia ?), but it looks like they are in the minority. It seems that the most vocal and public Muslim organizations and groups are never categorically distancing themselves from the actions of the fanatics. CAIR never bothered to address the Hindu temple destruction and other rampant acts of violence against non Muslims.

And in most Muslims eyes, after reading their ambiguous comments made about terrorism (as we see it), it is not terrorism to them, but a "freedom struggle". And the goals of Islam are clearly voiced by this 1998 public statement by CAIR’s chairman, Omar M. Ahmad: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

I am not going to get involved in a diatribe on this...the facts speak for themselves. If you have anything the really to add with references, please post it. Else, don't criticize the messenger.

Scott get off your cloud. Your statement improperly assumes Islam is ahistorical or un-modernized. Moreover, your post exhibits your ignorance of how common Muslim people live their day to day lives in the US and certainly abroad. If you lacked such ignorance, you might come to realize that Muslims in other countries live very similar lives to those depicted in the show. Hence, the "American Middle class" has little relevance.

i think scott was trying to be polite and express the view that muslims in the US tend to be very conservative compared to the median. for instance, 73% of muslim doctors believe more in intelligent design than evolution vs. 24% of hindu doctors. there is something there, and pretending it doesn't exist as a trend, if not a platonic ideal, seems kind of rejecting the plain facts....

“The host family was not Pakistani, it was American. I'm just guessing, but that may have been the point of the show.”
__________________

Yawn – so I should have phrased it as “Pakistani-origin”, which was the term used on the show. My criminal omission of the word “origin” ranks right up there with cracking an egg on the wrong side.
________

“The headscarf and Arabic food are part of American Muslim culture, partly because Arabs were the first American Muslims, partly becuase of the prestige of the Arabic language. American Muslims, especially desis, often reject their parents curry-smelling-FOB immigrant heritage and show their Americanization by embracing the accoutrements of American Islam -- which includes summer camps, basketball, and headscarves.”

__________
Sorry, but Arabs were not the first Muslims in the U.S. More likely, it was black Africans brought over during the slave trade, from those regions where Arabs and black Africans brushed up against each other. The Arab role in the trans-Atlantic slave trade is virtually forgotten, lest it upset the traditional “Blame Whitey” lesson of slavery.

The earliest Arab immigration into the U.S. was mostly Christian of Lebanese and Syrian descent, as they found their homelands less hospitable once the Muslim population increased. Today, most Arab Americans are Christian, not Muslim (think John Sununu, Casey Kasem, Tony Shaloub, Ralph Nader). Recent Arab immigrants, however, are increasingly Muslim. But even Arab Muslim immigrants are a minority within the Muslim immigrant community. The majority of Muslim immigrants are from South Asia - which makes the jettisoning of their South Asian culture all the more bizarre.
_____

Al wrote,
”In the Post 9-11 world I predict that the new religious generation of Desi Muslims are going to re-discover their South Asian roots and de-emphasize the connections with their Arab brethren.”
I certainly hope so. Has any Arab Muslim reached the level of Azim Premji, Yusuf Hamied, Zakir Hussain, and Ali Akbar Khan? Why not take pride in real people, instead of some cartoonishly rendered idea of Muslim brotherhood, which is nothing more than a thinly disguised Arab nationalism?

My dad often said that anyone w/ a Muslim name/family heritage is a Muslim, which I don't agree with. People who practice are Muslims in my mind. My family came to US from Bangladesh in mid-80s, so I don't have a lotta memories from "the old country." I saw only one of my mom's co-workers covered her hair and a few grandmothers (who put the sari over their hair). Here in Jackson Hts, I've seen SOOOO many BD women (including 2nd gen) who wear scarves/hijab/niqab! I did a double-take when I first saw a lady in niqab (the black full-length deal with ONLY the eyes showing) speaking in Bengali. Of course, there were a handful of BD ladies who wore scarves back in Arizona (where I grew up). My parents didn't like that b/c it's not a part of BD culture. I didn't meet any Arab Christians until I moved to Midwest and then here in NY; they are 60% and 40% are Arab Muslims.

Just my 2 cents!