Dude, even your poll questions are biased. I would have phrased the choices another way.
:)

Is there anyway to see the poll results without having to vote? Or is that info deemed confidential?

Hey man, it's my poll. Why not put up your own? ;)

Wow, apparently you really really want this poll, Manish.

(I think someone stays home friday nights watching NUMB3RS on CBS...)

Lets gather that data and find control groups and then slice and dice it to prove that Mutineers are the wealthiest label-whores in the world. Then, we sell this information to the marketing nerds at Amazon and bankroll millions.

Naturally, I'll take a 10% cut...

then we'll take a poll, whose poll is better ;)

I think someone stays home friday nights watching NUMB3RS on CBS...

Thanks. In your attempt to make Manish feel like a geek you've made me feel like one.

Abhi, I uh, wouldn't know about the show unless I did it too :)

C'mon, Cic. You know you want it. That No button is just sitting there like an unguarded exhaust port. The Vote button is calling out your name. Cicatrix, sweet Cicatrix! Wherefore art thou, Cicatrix?

Oh, I voted. Dude, my vote is withheld for a poll designed to determine my demographic catagory, not for a poll that asks if said poll should be done.

:P

you realize, the poll now has to include the question: have you ever opted to stay in on a Friday night to watch NUMB3RS?

Don't forget, I even wrote a post on Numb3rs.
:)

and I see by the rising tide of 'yes' votes, that people are easily, easily tempted. (and dissuaded by the most leading 'no' questions I've ever seen. Karl Rove would be proud Manish. He'd might even call you beta when he rings you up tonight.)

This whole enterprise is based on such shaky scientific grounds...if I were an anari paan-chewing, Urdu-speaking Dada, I'd spit a big fat wet one right about now.

Fine. Have the bloody poll. I'd like to see how many Sri Lankans read these posts so I can stop translating things into Hindi based on the assumption that this site in Indo-centric.

Maybe SL reprsents well, and I can then say, "if I were a naaki, bulath-chewing, Pali-speaking seeya, I'd spit a big fat wet one right about now."

Oh wait, then all the Tamil readers would have me garroted for writing in Sinhalese and forgetting about the SL Tamils. pah.

You do realize that there are people who dislike polls even more that I do, and therefore haven't even voted in this one? So the 'no' side is handicapped already.

such bad science. tsk tsk..

what is "science?"

and you know, i understand how you don't want people projecting from the possible results of a poll to you, but it seems a bit much that you a prior invalidate the possibility of a poll because of a particular bias. i mean, we aren't demanding everyone participate in the poll, only those people who are interested. but your argument seems to be that the very existence of a poll is somehow odious and will dirty the waters-no matter that you can 1) not participate 2) not read the results.

i'm in a mind to paraphrase mencken, "cicatrix is deathly afraid that someone, somewhere, is having fun with imperfect data sets."

but your argument seems to be that the very existence of a poll is somehow odious and will dirty the waters-no matter that you can 1) not participate 2) not read the results.

i'll stand up and take the weight. no polls! i want to preserve all the delicious mysteries of sepianess. let's not pollute our sacred space!

right now the poll count is 62 yes to 37 no. That is percentages, not voters.

I'm sure the results would stay anonymous. It would just be interesting to see what the demographic looked like. Just because you know something doesn't mean you have to do anything typical with the results (like marginalizing the minorities, which this blog tends to rail against in a much bigger sense) ... it's a MUTINY - what's the point doing anything conventional? You don't even HAVE to do anything with the results, except post them, blink at them staring back at you on the page, and know how diverse the readership really is.

Right now we have a small group of commenters who assume that the majority of readers are leftist, college educated young people who identify with a South Asian identity. Why not get the numbers and change assumption to research? Why is it bad to find out if this assumption is true or false?

Knowledge is neutral. It's the application of that knowledge that is good or bad.

but I voted yes because I like filling out forms.

Manish,

That is one fascist poll, you communist :)

pretty elementary, dear watson..the NO-polls team has won it!

for (i=1; i=YesCount+10 million; i++)
no_nO_NONO++;

Such fun :)

(yes that integer i is large enough)

Knowledge is neutral. It's the application of that knowledge that is good or bad.

At the risk of provoking Manish into wilder speculations about data-averse people...may I say that:
1. I'm not data-averse, per se
2. numbers aren't knowledge
3. interpreting those numbers? Done by people who aren't infallible and can all sort of things into stats
4. I don't trust people to apply knowledge altruistically. (and for god's sake, that doesn't mean I'm against stem-cells.)

shukriyaa

(Unless I find out that SL reps high on this site, in which case "sthuthi")

Don't worry people. The percentages as they are now aren't even filibuster proof. I will use every parliamentary tactic at my disposable to table this motion.

Razib,

I don't need to paraphrase to say that "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

(yeah, you know I had to say it.)

But even attribution can be a fuzzy and difficult thing.

I'm curious: if the no's win, does that mean this post self-destructs?

I'm curious: if the no's win, does that mean this post self-destructs?

Nope, it'll get cited by the Times of India as in an article stating the fact that this poll shows evidence that there is a no win situation (with a margin of error introduced by them).

I really can't type, spell, or employ the correct use of grammer. The following is the correct sentence:

Nope, it'll get cited by the Times of India in an article stating that this poll shows evidence of a no win situation (with a margin of error introduced by them).

*groan*

grammar

Oh god, stop it people, you're killing me! The pain, the pain. . .

and dissuaded by the most leading 'no' questions I've ever seen. Karl Rove would be proud Manish. He'd might even call you beta when he rings you up tonight.

does anyone else have an occasional brain-switch around certain topics that have words that look like transliterations of Indian words? Like, if Manish is version Beta, who's 1.0?

The poll shows what I long suspected. Most people who come on here want a poll !

Yes, AMfd. Poll respondents show they like polls ;)

This whole enterprise is based on such shaky scientific grounds...if I were an anari paan-chewing, Urdu-speaking Dada, I'd spit a big fat wet one right about now.

This poll is listed under humor for a reason. But hey, at least we've got our very own authentic simulation of a subcontinental election! ;)

4. I don't trust people to apply knowledge altruistically. (and for god's sake, that doesn't mean I'm against stem-cells.)

??? i really don't get this, i don't even know what nefarious plots manish could get up to if he got some shaky data. manish's equivalence to anti-stem cell partisans might have been harsh, but i feel like i'm trying to engage a many headed scylla of dark portents that is remiscient of some cautionary conservatives. i mean, sure, numbers aren't knowledge, but they are a first step in many cases. there is a reason that many disciplines have become more quantitative over the decades. as it is, i smell irony here in that on the one hand, there is the assertion that 1) "this isn't science," but there also seems to be a neo-romantic sentiment that reducing the regular readers to some modal types and trends will drain the mysterious beauty of this weblog. i don't get it.

... there also seems to be a neo-romantic sentiment that reducing the regular readers to some modal types and trends will drain the mysterious beauty of this weblog.

Silly Razib. You're just unfamiliar with the ether and the four humors ;)

Like any good Republican, I've cast my 5 votes ;)

*runs and hides from Saurav*

But hey, at least we've got our very own authentic simulation of a subcontinental election! ;)

not unless you also allow booth capturing..aka. flooding from same IP!! Being a pseudo-geek and all, that's the first thing I tried ;)

especially bengalis

In-te-re-sting....because there has been some talk that SM is not-so-clandestinely Mallu.

Razib, sorry for the confusion. I've been treating this thread as a continuation of The gestalt of Sepia thread. Over there, Manish likened people who are against this poll those those against sex-ed and stem cells ... I have no idea why...something to do with disliking numb3rs, uh, I mean, dataphobia...?

Anyway, my objections were that:
1. the readership poll will give statistical fodder for people who like to label first and listen/read later.
2. this poll poll draws people who like polls, so the results will be distorted. self-selection, to be precise. And thanks Manish, for the link.

So, already I see stirrings beneath the sepia surface that appear to give credence to the aforementioned notions.

1. Maisnon, I'm not picking on you, (I hope) but your question feeds into this. Is Sepia actually more punjabi, bengali or Mallu? Now we'll know the answers to such burning questions!

2. Self-selection. Andrea, I hope I'm not picking on you either, but when you wrote but I voted yes because I like filling out forms, you became the ne plus ultra example of this :)

so that, as clearly as I can, is my argument against polling.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I have to go kiss some babies and revise my stump speech. God bless America!

the candidate would like to correct a minor error.

Andrea said but I voted yes because I like filling out forms. The rest of the sentence should not have been italicized.

(when I find that junior staffer, heads will roll, I tell you... Heads Will Roll!!!)

oh for god's sake! /i>! /i>! /i>!!! I type it but nothing happens!

*Candidate will find that junior staffer and wring his neck*

Maisnon, I'm not picking on you, (I hope) but your question feeds into this

No worries, yo - I don't take offense easily.

The reason I wrote: there have been at least two responses to comments that I've made that have said "enh? has the number of mallus increased recenty or what?" And I've been reading this blog since day 1 ( I used to comment as "deepa".)

Overall, with or without the polls, a number of people seem to think they have their finger on the pulse of SM's readers (or, at least, its commenters.)

Ack, I forgot to add one crucial point...If only we had editing priviledges. sigh ;)

3. As I mentioned before,

What if the polls reveal that the average age of a Sepia reader is about 23? Wouldn't that turn off the older readers from ever posting?

Abhi also brought it up:

To me the argument is simple. If we don't do a poll are we going to lose readers? No. If we do a poll will we lose readers? Maybe.

And now Vidushi writes:

Age group : 24-33??? whoa . I am nowhere close to 24. I don't want to admit how old ( young) I am now!

Granted, Vidushi is not saying she/he will never read Sepia again, but if Sepia does skew younger than the older members thought...well, it's not quite as welcoming as before, now, is it? It's harder to embrace all South Asians when you've already defined your readership's age, religion, ethnic group, etc.

cicatrix,
I imagine(profile?,eh!) you as one of those jhagdaalu(fighter) aunties...who can beat others to death, just by your sheer force and repeated assertions. And you have to trust me on this, I DO REALLY mean it in a complimentary way :)

I am 210% with you. no polls..no polls..no polls..no po..

omigod - I'm not an auntie!!! Take it back! Take it baaaaaaaccckk!!!!!

cicatrix,

how much sleep did you get last night? we want our candidate to be well rested not up all night fighting italics tags...

- a local No Poll Party apparatchik

Cicatrix, you've now been called an aunty twice in as many days. Sometimes, the truth hurts ;)

maybe you need one of these!

I find mine to be quite helpful in diffusing any mistaken formalities

(scroll down mid-page.)

I was in favour of polls out of curiosity until someone posted that bit about the age group.
I felt really out of place with that comment but I'm addicted to SM. I'm sticking around despite the age difference. :)

Vidushi, is this your subtle way of saying "oooh look I'm younger than you lot!" ya cheeky monkey? You're not the only youngun here!

or maybe the resident dadaji

ahahaha

Bong Breaker I am relieved that I have company. It was my subtle way of saying " Please do not make me feel stupid for being clueless at times"

cicatrix,
ofcourse, I know u are a young dudette, experimenting with saaris & all that :)
that auntie reference was only in the context of how aunties back home fight..for petty issues.

on a side note (age-old debate),
why do more girls take offense when referred as aunty? I for one, feel good, when someone calls me "Kazi sahab" :)

(*suffering frm foot-in-da-mouth disease*)

that doesn't mean this issue was petty...just that like siddhartha m, I don't want u to burn precious calories on italics ;)

why do more girls take offense when referred as aunty?

Why do more female than male actors fear growing older?

It's not all about the age aspect. Some of it is connotation:

Aunty connotation: pinch your cheeks, meddle, nag you about getting married

Uncle connotation: jovial, occasionally one-track

Umm... not that anyone's ever called me aunty. (ducks for cover)

I agree brimful, but I define it somewhat differently:

Aunty - FAT.
Uncle - JOHNNY WALKER.

i remember well the first time a kid in india called me uncle. it was on the rajdhani train from delhi to calcutta, and the child of a family sitting near me took a liking to me and we played together much of the trip. i was in college at the time, but being called uncle for the first time was a much more vivid introduction to adulthood and its implied responsibilities than anything i was learning in school...

peace

agreed- while auntie is supposed to be respectful, it generally suggests sari fat-rolls, jiggly triceps, hairy moles, and general no-holds-barred nosiness. It's not so much about being older (I doubt many would think of Dimple Kapadia or Rekha as Auntie) so much as being over.

Calling Cicatrix auntie would imply she's not bold and sexy... definitely wrong.

I have met the Cicatrix, and she is us--
No sari rolls, no auntie butt

Cicatrix, you've now been called an aunty twice in as many days. Sometimes, the truth hurts ;)

The pain is killing me :)

Punjani Boy was right to call me on it the other time though, Bong Breaker. I can take it when I know I deserve it ;)

Well, I didn't get much sleep last night, and my real life has suffered greatly. So I must say farewell, for now. But I leave secure in the knowledge that our cause is being fought by young and old,
Mallu and Guju,
Pakistani, Rajastathani and Bong.

Whether sudying for your LSATs
or worrying about your back fat,
Please rest assured that my battle with italics, is
nothing, NOTHING, compared to how I'll tilt my lance for you.

But I need your support, my sepia friends.
Dark forces of psuedo-rationality surround us,
conflating knowledge with numbers and pakoras,
intent on extracting our data for sinister ends.

We shall fight back with light!
with all our anonymous might!
So please press that 'no' button
repeatedly and greedily, like a glutton.

Take heed of Siddhartha M, Suhail and Vidushi
for through them, my words come, truly
and together we shall forever banish
the dark lord known as Manish
back to the lab from whence he came.

Adieu!

*blows kisses*

and together we shall forever banish
the dark lord known as Manish

Quite the epic, Gilgamesh. But I didn't know 'banish' was pronounced ba-NEESH ;)

Hello, poetic license?!? :)

I lurved it, cicatrix!

could it be manish? to rhyme with BAN-ish?

Poetic license, my friend. but I used on your name-

together we shall forever banish
the dark lord known as MAN-ish

ah, the faithful gather so quickly!

*wipes joyful tear from eye*

fight hard! fight strong!
don quixote wasn't wrong!

There's a gal named cicatrix
hitting at the poll matrix
Came her clarion call
faithful, at her feet fall
in jubiliation she comments in hat-tricks!

Thanks Suhail :)

It is rather fascinating to see the vote percentages remain so steady: 1/3 no, 2/3 yes.

Sigh. Oh well..battle bravely fought and all that..

full disclosure:

I was against the poll because I knew I'd be obsessed by it...all those pretty pretty pretty numbers twinkling, twirling, rising and falling...oh, my preciousss..

Uh, so, in the interest of seeing how self-selection played a role, I just checked out the sitemeter

VISITS

Total ...........................966,885
Average Per Day...........6,366
Average Visit Length.......2:25
Last Hour...........................396
Today..............................5,298
This Week....................44,559

So that's over 6,000 visits per day. I can't tell if that's unique views, or a total view number. But still, it's clear that a LOT more people visit Sepia than the 255 people who've taken the poll so far.

*runs away before bored Sepia members throw eggs*