I think Dean is a wacko too........he should stop tearing jackets apart, and absolutely stop making statements like "Republicans have never earned an honest living [paraphrased version]".

I hate to say that as long as Deanites are at the helm, the Democrats will become a minority party. Like Bobby Jindal, he is disconnected.

i just want to hear Dean go psycho and begin yelling at us.. :)

"and Jackson Heights, and Devon Street, and Sunnyvale, and that suburb north of Atlanta... maaaaaaawwwwwwwpppp!!"

[not sure on the spelling of Dean's trademark incredible bellowing sound...]

I don’t want him to pander to me but if you take a look at the above question and answer, you could replace “Indian-American” with say “Mexican-American,”

Abhi - So what do you suggest that the DNC or any other party, vying for the Indain American votes, propose to do that is unique?

but if you take a look at the above question and answer, you could replace “Indian-American” with say “Mexican-American,” and not skip a beat.

Great Analysis!

Dean is the only American politician worth listening to, IMO. I am not even a citizen yet and I was following his progress in the primaries. The honesty and straight forward talk that Dean showed was amazing. I was sad the day it was finally clear that Dean is out of the race.

I love the Dean family too. Mrs. Dean is a doctor who is not interested in politics and fake photo-ops. They keep their kids out of media. They are not flashy. They are smart. Whats not to like. Judy Dean was a breath of fresh air. If women's right people were honest, they would have loved a real career woman. But I dont think American people want honesty.

The idiot reporters went nuts after his Iowa speech, because Dean didnt use the media for his popularity. Media were shit scared that they would be exposed as the "celebrity news reporting clowns that they are" (for the most part) so they went all out to bring down Dean.

The media did not bring down Dean - his indiscipline did that for him. Audiences may love a guy who can whip a crowd into a frenzy, but they generally do not vote for such a character.

I've got no problem with the Democrats working hard for IA votes - Republicans are not entitled to them, they have to fight for the votes as they would any other demographic.

Abi...

You truly are an idiot. Dean having 'spunk'! C'mon...you have more moxie than that...don't be such a schmuck.

"his indiscipline did that for him. "

Politics is the only career where having no experience is actually considered good. But there are some rules laid down by the MEDIA which are the "sacred cow" (similar thing) that one cant challenge. If a person does it then he/she will be called "angry" or "indisciplined" or "lose cannon" or anything that they want to call. And then they will continuously play one clip over and over till its internalized by stupid voters.

abhi is not an idiot.

Calling voters stupid is a good way to get their votes, btw. Works like a charm.

RC: I watched that Dean clip with the sound off the night of the primary (don't ask, I think I was on the phone with someone) - I didn't hear any pundit reports, because, it was the first run, and I made my own conclusion only from the visuals. The way he acted, I thought: he won, did he. And then when I found out he didn't, I thought, man, that was wierd. Without anyone on Fox telling me to think anything. Which, usually, I need. Because I am a stupid voter.

Anyhoo, I think India Abroad is doing a good job of trying to engage both parties. I like that both parties feel they have to fight for the 'desi' vote, whatever the h*ll that is. Let 'em keep fighting for it by having desis mix up the vote and not my sitting in the pocket of one party or another.

my should be by. And abhi's still not an idiot. And I still think Dean is a little strange......well, actually, I think he's the verbal diarhhea to Bush's verbal constipation, and yet, I like Bush and don't like Dean. Ah, women....we are contrary. At least this one is.

What the hell do I know about voters and voting. I am not even a citizen of the US. May be voters are very smart. (atleast smarter than myself) and that John McCain is really 'angry'.

They wont get my vote, if they talk crap like this

MD wrote: ...and yet, I like Bush and don't like Dean...

I guess you like the strong, silent types ;-)

RC: Sorry, didn't mean to snark or be mean! I just don't get the Dean fascination, though.

vivekj: Ha! My problems - not that I have any - pretty much relate to the fact that I'm the strong, silent type. Men love that, you know. (Blog comments not counted,of course).

of course voters are stupid, 1 out of 5 americans think the sun revolves around the earth. that's neither hear nor there, the mean IQ of republican and democratic voters is probably the same. republicans might have an advantage because they "keep things simple" and can appeal to social bigotry but democrats slip class warfare whenever they want.

i'm a classical liberal, so i didn't have any horse in the race, but i liked dean's frankness. but he was way too weird for the average american.

You could fault Dean for a few things, but the guy does have passion for improving the Democratic party.

Many of the current Democratic "leaders" are Republican-lite, so the party needs to reinvigorate. I think Dean is doing well in that respect Also, he doesn't seem very cynical.

Ignorance and stupidity are not the same thing; although certainly there is a big area of overlap. Teaching medical residents and students, you quickly learn that knowing a set of facts (even obvious ones that we should all know) doesn't necessarily mean squat in the real world. Like, when taking care of real, live (let's keep em that way) patients.

*I feel the need to qualify my 'like' Bush remark: I think he messed up big time with hurricane relief. Which is not the same as saying he deliberately did the things he did because he is a racist, etc. He made a poor executive decision, on top of lots of incompetence on the local level. He should have taken over when it became clear than Blanco and Nagin were unfit for duty and in over their heads. They really messed up big-time, too.

**Don't know why I felt the need to clarify that: I've been so disgusted by the salivating of the political class before the bodies are even buried that I just felt, well, I hate every pundit, every bloviating blogger, every blow dried reporter, every Johnny come lately senator or representative who knew full well how bad things were, and aided and abetted it by their lust for domestic pork, but only wants to point fingers now. Please, please, please. Lets investigate the pols too. That's all I ask. Oh, and underneath Dean's candor is a lot of shallow thinking. See abhi's point above.

I think he messed up big time with hurricane relief.

Yep let's leave it at that. Everything else coming from the White House is propoganda to shift all the blame on the locals. For all his faults I'd take Dean over Bush to lead ANY task, including mowing my lawn.

And why do politicans want a second term? It's always like this: Reagan, Clinton, second terms bring you down every time man. That's just the way it is. What's been interesting for me as a women deeply into her *cough*thirties*cough* is how the past changes on the re-telling. Reagan was so utterly vilified when I was a teenager, that when he was shot, people in my class (a liberal college town) clapped! Disgusting. And when he died, the accolades, even grudgingly from some how hated him at the time. And I keep hearing how scary things are now, but I truly believed the USSR and the US would nuke each other in the eighties, lots of people grew up thinking that. I used to freak when I heard those sirens that go off in the midwest warning you of tornados or storms. I wonder if the younger posters/commenters can understand what it was to grow up thinking like that.

oh, so you think there was no problem at the local level? NOne at all. How can you think that, looking at the data? And that means reading something else besides the Nation.

Like I said before, it's people like you that will make sure nothing changes: it will all go on just as before.

Look here.

"Yesterday I called the National Affairs office of the Red Cross (202-303-5551) and talked with Red Cross spokesperson Lesly Simmons, who told me that the shipment was not turned away by the US Dept of Homeland Security, but by this agency:

lots of people grew up thinking that. I used to freak when I heard those sirens that go off in the midwest warning you of tornados or storms. I wonder if the younger posters/commenters can understand what it was to grow up thinking like that.

I remember that time well (I'm pushing up on 30). I even remember watching the Carter/Reagan debates at age 4 (I asked my dad why the economy was dominating the debate). The Soviets never freaked me out at all though. I am similarly not freaked out by terrorists as much as some. That could be the reason I have never cast a vote for the candidate that promised to better protect me from my own fears. I learned that the economy was more important at an early age. Maybe I'm naive.

Like I said before, it's people like you that will make sure nothing changes.

I am the change I wish to see in this world. When I run for the U.S. Senate in twenty years I am going to hit you up for a contribution.

>> Look here.

MD,

The link does not work.

To All,

Right now, my thoughts are very similar to FactCheck.Org's. The failure happened at all levels.....not even today, yesterday, for last 40 years. Remember, Hurricane Katrina is not the last one. They will be more. Also, earthquakes in LA, New Delhi, Istanbul.

Further Readings:
http://www.kushtandon.squarespace.com/journal/2005/9/2/what-does-factcheckorg-have-to-say.html

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=344

Read this:

"Yesterday I called the National Affairs office of the Red Cross (202-303-5551) and talked with Red Cross spokesperson Lesly Simmons, who told me that the shipment was not turned away by the US Dept of Homeland Security, but by this agency:

The Lousiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (LHLS & EP); formally the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness (LOEP), was created by the Civil Act of 1950 and is under the Louisiana Military Department.

Ms. Simmons also told me that the Red Cross has never mentioned any involvement in this incident by FEMA, because FEMA wasn't involved."

The rest of it is too partisan for my taste, but probably fits your stereotypes of nasty Republicans. Lousiana got 1.6 billion from the Army Corps of Engineers, more than any other state. 1.6 billion. Are you telling me abhi, that shuttling that money toward pork instead of working on a levee is not a problem? Nothing Blanco or local pols did was wrong? Not even one thing contributed to the mess? How, as a scientist, can you even go down that road. And you make fun of intelligent design folk.

Why on earth would I expect poverty or corruption or anything to change with an attitude like that? The same old local incompetence, and who pays? The poor, that's who.

Kush, can I just say how impressed I've been with your take here on Sepia Mutiny? Yours has been the most calm, rational, reasonable, and non-partisan take of them all. Good for you and thanks for the links.

"Kush, can I just say how impressed I've been with your take here on Sepia Mutiny? Yours has been the most calm, rational, reasonable, and non-partisan take of them all. Good for you and thanks for the links."

Thanks, MD. I hope, I remain so.

I do have liberal tendencies......most of the time, I am very middle of the road.

It was a failure of imagination again. Moreover, nobody ever really prepared for category 4-5 storm.

I have a Nature article (as a pdf) on Hurricane Katrina which is quite educative. which I email if someone contacts me personally (kushtandon AT yahoo DOT com)

I will pick Bush over Dean on any given day. Dean is a demagogue and divisive. Extreme of anything is just bad.

However, I will pick Bill Clinton over Bush any given day.

I also think Nixon and Lyndon Johnson were one of the most important Presidents of US from 60s-00s even though they had some serious shortcomings.

Once a friend of mine told me "Being on the middle of the road, you will get run over always, walk on the sidelane".

The truth rarely lies "in the middle" or somewhere "in between". Please do not try to attempt to arrive at the truth by this method. (not acccusing any one of doing so, just ranting).

Abhi, you think Machiavelli's in Heaven? :) (Well, I guess Duryodhana made it to Swarga.)

And Kush, I see Bush as an extremely divisive figure.

Bah. Wh are we analysing a few turns of phrase, instead of trying to figure out the content of the party's legislative and oversight choices? Dean has to play the game, and we have to play along, and the game always, always spirals off into fluffy discussions of subjective character assessments like "indiscipline." What does that even mean? I watched the "Dean Scream" without any spin and just thought it was enthusiastic. Then I woke up and everyone was attributing all kinds of fuzzy qualities to all the various players. We don't have time for this stuff.

Abhi, I'll be frank, I think your translation is incorrect and too easily cynical. I don't think Dean was pandering to Rich Indian Doctors saying give me your money. I think he was pandering to their sense of moral superiority. The Indian-American medical community at least has some memory of the glass ceiling that once existed in this country (I think they have pretty successfully pierced most areas of leadership, with shear numbers if nothing else) and still has strong ties to the middle class (as opposed to the Frists of this world, who make no bones about their desire to make as much money as possible from doctoring.) Sure, Indian-Americans are under pressure to become doctors because it's a profession that makes money. But business school often makes more money. The prestige factor is directly tied to the doing-good factor, and bully for him if he wants to manipulate that into getting more support for healthcare for all Americans.

The rest of the interview is about outsourcing, and I think he makes a decent point about China. Ironically, that doesn't necessarily lose him points with the Chinese-American community, many of which are somewhat anti-PRC themselves. My problem with our high trade volume with China is not what it does to American textile jobs--American textile jobs died long ago, before many of us were born*. The problem with our massive volume of trade with China---particularly in textiles---is that it puts all our trade eggs in one basket and represents a huge, sudden, painful shift in business from a relatively large chunk of the developing world--a mostly Islamic chunk of the developing world. It dulls one of the few tools we have to engage positively with that chunk of the developing world. That's a very Americentric way of looking at it. The fact is Kerry was painted as anti-globalization when he was just trying to get rid of the outsourcing-tax-break.

Here are my reasons you should support the Democratic party if you're Indian. I think you'll find that a lot of what Dean didn't say was b/c he was being polite.

1) It's the party that best supports religious freedom and religious diversity. Indians, Bangladeshis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans, Pakistanis and Afghanis--whether they are Idol-worshipping Hindus, hated-flavor-of-the-month Muslims, guru-revering Sikhs, still-fighting-to-get-Yom-Kippur-off Jews, "auto-erotic" Buddhists, technocratic atheists/agnostic/deist, or sadly unheard of Jains--even, in fact, if they belong to some ancient and goodworks/tradition-friendly sect of Christianity--will find that their freedoms to go to public schools, engage in the public square, and pay tax dollars and vote without bending to someone else's religious preferences are safer with the Democratic party. You may not get your religiously preferred policies--but neither should you have to bend to someone else's. Policy is much more carefully debated without reference to scripture.

2) It's the party that best supports cultural diversity. Here's a concrete example: It may be difficult for us hyper-educated upper class blog readers to grok, but not every South Asian who comes to this country at a young age is fully versed in English. When I was in grad school in Colorado there was a young Nepali family in my building. They fled the violence and political turmoil of Nepal, hoping to provide their kids better opportunities and political freedom. They spoke decent English, not first class University English, but pretty good. But it was tough for their kids to adjust to school. I realized it would have been easier had they gone to a school in California with better ESL programs and staff educated in Bi-lingual education. The skills you learn to teach a bilingual program in Chinese or Spanish are very helpful in encountering any language. But the Statistics-impaired Bush Admin and Republican party are too beholden to its cultural constitutencies to recognize a good thing when research finds it, and the sweep of anti-bi-lingual-education through the country cannot be helpful to young immigrants.

3) Desi success in America is very strongly a function of the prosperity of science and education, and both of those are much safer with the Democratic party. See my blog today about The Republican War on Science.

You can debate these substantially. I'm sure Vinod and MD could put forward a nice, intelligent set of counter arguments from the small-business point of view (though I have to ask, who is more pro-small business--the party waning universal healthcare, or the party that's getting massive donations from Wal-Mart). We can have a policy debate. That's time well-spent. Analyzing one man's verbal tics is useless.

Fundamentally, being an Indian-American voter boils down to being an American voter. Each person has to decide for themselves how their culture and upbringing inform fundamental values, and then plug those values into participating in the American system. Thus Dean's answer was not all that wishy washy, and I think it's fantastic that a prescription that applies well to Mexican-Americans applies equally well to desi Americans. It's better than having a prescription that applies much better to an nth-generation white Protestant than to anyone else.

I apologize ahead of time if my hideous state of connectivity has caused me to drafts of this.

-------------------
*10 Geek points for anyone who's seen a bootleg tape of the Star Wars Holiday Special and can make the connection.

This may be asking for a bit much, seeing as how this is your blog and all. But, Abhi, is it possible for me to come to at least Sepia Mutiny and not see crap about politics? Or see you bash Republicans, or someone else bash Democrats? Just asking, is all..

But, Abhi, is it possible for me to come to at least Sepia Mutiny and not see crap about politics?

Not possible. Politics is why I got into blogging in the first place. Everything else I blog about is just a candy coating used to attract the flies. :)

When I started dippu.com, my female friends made me promise that I wouldn't blog about politics. I sold out and havent blogged about it since. I guess now I just don't see where these arguments go.

When I started dippu.com, my female friends made me promise that I wouldn't blog about politics.

Yeah man but I'm not surprised. You are right-wing and have admitted you are a fundamentalist before on this blog. Who wants to read that, am I right? ;)

True... true..