of ALL religions, I wonder why on earth they chose Sikh! My sci-fi nut buddy NEVER let me on to this, and she got me rath of khan for my birthday! Hmm.....

My pecs are 100% real, and I paid good money for them!

Alas, Abhi, the Eugenics Wars novels are a recent development. For the true background on Khaaaaan, you need to watch his first-ever Trek appearance, on the original series (TOS) episode "Space Seed."

And WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Shatner got the Emmy! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

For the true background on Khaaaaan, you need to watch his first-ever Trek appearance

Absolutely. Those episodes are mentioned in my background links. :)

"Space Seed" is only one episode.

And where did you get the info that Montalban's pecs were fake? Nimoy claims they're real in "I Am Spock."

Hee! Shutting up now.

And where did you get the info that Montalban's pecs were fake? Nimoy claims they're real in "I Am Spock."

Oh no you didn't girlfriend. You didn't just go there. Are you calling me out on my Star Trek knowledge? ;)
They were fake.

those itty-bitty-titties were notoriously fake. look at 'em, i dare you.

sorry about the name...i'm really not opposed to lesbianism...seriously....

And he was in Fantasy Island too

Maybe it's one of those high-tech Victoria's Secret jobs... APEX? IMAX? iPIX? whatever they're calling it...

I've flicked through those novels depicting Khan's early life, it's actually very interesting reading; he was a turbaned-and-bearded Sikh in his younger days, and the story also includes descriptions of some of the traditional Sikh weapons he uses.

The specific incident which describes the crucial, split-second, crossroads-type juncture where his life radically begins to change direction (and heads towards villainy) is also very cleverly done; it's also quite tragic because it shows exactly how close he was to becoming (or continuing as) heroic. I won't give the details away, for the benefit of SM members who actually want to read the books and find out for themselves ;)

Oh yes, I meant to add: Although Khan obviously descends into full-scale villainy in the movie, I liked how he wasn't necessarily such a black-and-white character in the original TV series. At one point Kirk is shown as actually secretly admiring him due to his charismatic, all-conquering leader persona and previous activities on Earth.

He is my new hero - I want to be like him.

But he made the wrong choice with the name - a Singh called Khan?

Wtf?

"He blames Admiral Kirk for his hard fate, as well as for his son's death, and vows revenge"

Wasn't it actually his wife's death that he blames on Kirk?

Who remembers my post about Lieutenant Singh in TNG?

That Sikhs in science fiction page is part of a very interesting site I linked to a while back with religious affiliations of many writers as well as sections on Baha'i, Amish and Zoroastrian science fiction! But it's slightly flawed. They occasionally just assume anyone with the name Singh is Sikh. Yuvraj can tell you that ain't so bro.

Punjabi Boy,

But he made the wrong choice with the name - a Singh called Khan?

True, I thought it was a bit weird too, although in the books it's explained away by his mother (or the Sikh female scientist that created him, I can't remember which of these it was) choosing the name because it means "Lord", ie. due to its aristocratic, power-related connotations.

I don't know why Gene Roddenbury chose the name Khan in the original TV series, though.

Hanuman,

Wasn't it actually his wife's death that he blames on Kirk?

He sure did, although his son also dies because of Kirk's attacks on Khan's stolen starship.

Bong Breaker (and everyone else),

Who remembers my post about Lieutenant Singh in TNG?

On a semi-related note, I remember a South Asian stand-up comic briefly profiled on one of those desi shows on BBC2 here in the UK (it was either "Desi DNA", or that comedy show presented by Russell Peters), where the comic talks about how the original series was supposed to be really international and progressive in its depiction of the composition of the Enterprise's bridge crew -- eg. Uhura being African, Sulu the Japanese guy, Chekov the Russian etc.

The comedian then mentioned how Indians/South Asians make up 1/6 of the world's population, so (big pause)...."WHERE WAS PATEL ?!"

The way he said it was hilarious, and got a huge cheer from the audience. He did make a good point, of course ;)

I always thought it would have been good for one of the Star Trek movies or television sequels to have shown an all-out turbaned-and-bearded Sikh Starfleet officer, eg. "Admiral/Captain Singh", with a kirpan etc. Maybe they didn't because the humans of that era aren't meant to be religious in the formal sense. Or, more likely, it was something to do with the core modern-day American audience.

I have noticed the Sikh/Punjabi references in relation to some aspects of the Klingons though -- I may be wrong but I suspect the writer/production member Naren Shankar may have had a hand in all that.

If you click on that link of Sikhs in Sci fi there is a book that has a planet called Amritsar in the storyline! Seriously!

P-Boy,

If you click on that link of Sikhs in Sci fi there is a book that has a planet called Amritsar in the storyline! Seriously!

Yes I saw that -- I've actually flicked through that book a few years ago too (in a bookstore, didn't buy it), so I do remember that.

Haven't you noticed the Sikh/Punjab references in some of the recent Star Trek sequels -- The "guru" of the Klingons called Kahless (Khalsa / Khalis [original Persian]), references to him cutting the crops in his father's fields with his sword, along with references to "alien hordes attacking the Klingon homeworld 1000 years ago and plundering it" (read: Pathan invasions -- Mahmud of Ghazni etc).

I'm not a hardcore Trekkie but you do notice these things.

Are Klingon and Ferengi from desi terms?

Are Klingon and Ferengi from desi terms?

Klingon -- Don't think so.

Ferengi -- Yes, obviously ;)

Well the Ferengi/Phirangi (Farsi - Fer-hanghi = foreign) is one mentioned a lot, but I wonder if we read too much into things.

I have also pointed out the title of VEDIC in Bajoran culture. But maybe that's just coincidence? The two most popular sci-fi franchises of the 20th century were TREK and WARS. Both utilised Eastern philosophies. In WARS I'd say even more obviously so, the Jedi have clearly taken inspiration from Hinduism and Buddhism, as Luca$$ has himself admitted.

Bajorans, Vulcans - both have elements of Hinduism, as Jedis do. But surely these could be explained as just stereotypical 'spiritual mysticism' as opposed to directly influenced by the East. Meditation, selflessness, renouncing relationships and in the case of jedis - little tikkias like good Brahmin boys.

Star Trek II is my favorite movie of the group. I can watch this one a million times and not get tired of all the intergalactic jousting.

The end game duel in the nebula seriously evokes some old school submarine warfare nostalgia. Damnit, Kristie Alley was skinny and hot too. Now she just eats. A lot.

Of all the villans in Star Trek, Khan is the greatest one. You don't need to travel to a distant planet to find the enemy, the greatest ones can spring from your very own.

It may be morning, but I need to crack open a bottle of blood wine and make a pilgrimage to the Star Trek experience at the Las Vegas Hilton.

Don't forget the superhot, desi-on-the inside from Star Trek: Lt. Tasha "Where's the Party" Yaar!

House Bharaputra on Jackson Hole in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series has vaguely desi villains, in much the same way that her Barrayar is vaguely Slavic. They're pretty evil, and in my geekier hours I've contemplated getting a Bharaputra t-shirt.

Raj. That joke is shocking. Go and stand in the corner.

Khaaaaaaan

Yaaay Star Trek! How's this for another desi connection- Recall that episode of TNG where Picard is marooned on some distant land and forms roots and lives an entire lifetime there until he's brought back to the Enterprise and realizes all that happened in one instant of "real time" - my memory's fuzzy but I think some alien race did it to him so he could preserve the memories of their dying civilization.

Anyway, the whole live-a-lifetime-in-a-moment story is common to Indian mythology. I'd always look at the TNG titles and some desi guy (forget his name) was the story consultant or some such.

Hmm I think I just outed myself as a major Trekkie. All future attempts at hipster-ness are now miserably doomed

Sluggo, you rock.

My favorite DS9 ep: Bashir tries to help a planet afflicted with the plague...sets up some Starfleet techno-magic doohickey as usual...appears to cure everybody...then the disease comes back, even worse! Turns out the radiation put out by the doohickey aggravates the disease. So, no cure for the population. However, the children born after Bashir's intervention are plague-free. A more realistic take on Starfleet problem-solving. It struck me as so distinctive...then it made sense when I saw it was written by Naren Shankar.

Ok Abhi...this is war. "I am Spock," Leonard Nimoy, 1995, p. 200: "(An interesting sidebar: As Khan, Montalban wore a costume that showed off his chest, which was so impressively developed that many viewers speculated it might be a false breastplate. I'm here to tell you: It most definitely wasn't! Those were Montalban's enviable pecs.)"

I got Spock backing me up. Who do you got? ;)

And, supposedly, Nicholas Meyer, the director of STII:WoK said it was real (see end of first message):

http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-71568.html

I'd always look at the TNG titles and some desi guy (forget his name) was the story consultant or some such.

Yes there was. I have been meaning to post about him for over 6 months now. Maybe I soon will.

Ok Abhi...this is war.

Okay, I'll research this when I have time tonight. I never thought I'd ever spend so much time trying to figure out if a guy's breasts were real.

I am shamed. I believed the haters all these years. They are REAL. I am going to hit the gym extra hard today.

Khaaaannnnnnnnn!

Abhi on September 22, 2005 12:45 PM · Direct link Okay, I'll research this when I have time tonight. I never thought I'd ever spend so much time trying to figure out if a guy's breasts were real. Abhi on September 22, 2005 12:50 PM · Direct link I am shamed. I believed the haters all these years. They are REAL. I am going to hit the gym extra hard today.

:-D Yay for having time tonight! Abhi, you are way too freakin' busy if five minutes was stressing you out.:-)

More on the dearth of desis in sci fi.

But he made the wrong choice with the name - a Singh called Khan?

I have always been amused/confused by the names from Punjab...The first time was when I saw Kaur Singh win a gold medal in the Asian games heavyweight boxing. Till then I thought that Singh was a suffix for males and Kaur was for females....

Till then I thought that Singh was a suffix for males

A very funny interview with Shatner:

Maxim Magazine interviews Shatner

Some excerpts:

You have one of the most recognizable voices of the late 20th century. What’s the secret to Shatner diction?

Shallow breathing, allergies, and owning a dog that won’t listen.

You play yourself in Showtime. How did you prepare for the role?

How did I prepare to play Shatner? I read my biography. I learned I can’t stand the guy. I made it to chapter five and put it down.

Bong Breaker: Actually I think "firangi" is of Arabic origin, and is based on the Arabic word for the Crusaders ("Frang" from "Frank")...

Kirk: Khan, you bloodsucker. You're gonna have to do your own dirty work now, do you hear me? Do you?
Khan: Kirk. You're still alive, old friend.
Kirk: Still, "old friend." You've managed to kill everyone else but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target.

Got to love Shatner!

Umair you could be right, I can't be bothered to look it up at the mo. But I do know that it exists as a Farsi word. That word may have come from Arabic originally.

I'm Denny Crane.

Bong Breaker,

I'm Denny Crane.

There's no "I'm". Just:

"Denny Crane".
"Donny Crane".
"Denny Crane".
"Donny Crane".
"Denny Crane".

And so on. I see you're a Boston Legal fan too. The last episode of the first series was a cracker wasn't it. Also interesting how they've now got 2 ex-Star Trek guys on it, in major roles -- and they're both in adversarial positions for the start of Season 2. (The characters, not Shatner and Rene Auberjois, obviously).

Back to Star Trek: Guys, I mentioned Naren Shankar's possible input all the way back in post #17. As far as I know he works on some other hit show now, although I can't remember which one.

As far as I know he works on some other hit show now, although I can't remember which one.

He has worked on many hit shows. He's a Caltech guy if I remember right. I promise a post on him in the next couple of weeks.

Jai Singh-- jar your memory?

CSI!!

Now THAT'S my favourite show!

Sorry, the CSI!! was referring to what Naren Shankar's current hit hit show, Abhi and DesiDancer got in the way of the reply making sense. How inconsiderate.

I think I love CSI more than I ever loved TNG...maybe. Nah. On a par. Jai I'm not a mega BL fan, but I do find the episodes I've caught good stuff. I especially like Denny Crane and James Spader's character - I've always like characters who are complete and utter cocks.

DesiDancer you foxy married minx (God I'm turning into Punjabi Boy -- damn you and your subversive influence, PB !),

Aha -- thanks for that -- CSI was the one I was thinking of. I was watching it on TV here a few days ago and remember Naren saab's name on the end credits somewhere.

got in the way?? I was helping you, fool!

whatever. At least Jai Singh appreciates me ;)

By far the best show ever on TV and the best show Naren wrote for was Farscape.

Naren Shankar is of course very well known as one of the Hollywood geeks and for his involvement with many shows. But a lesser known name from CSI (Miami) is Sunil Nayar (maybe he's well known in the States), but he's worked on Oz, Smallville and such. I don't know much about these fellas...to me they're like the Indian chaps who worked on Photoshop. I automatically notice desi names where you don't expect them. I've been proud of Naren Shankar, Sunil Nayar and Seetharaman Narayanan and Vinod Balakrishnan for many years, without really knowing a great deal about who they are.

Aw DD, you know I kid. Remember my enthusiasm for the dhamaka DVD? You know I'm a fan!

But don't expect me to call you a foxy married minx. Jai, you've hit new levels of corny.

hey - there's a place too - it's called toba tek singh . it's in pakistan, or somewhere on the border.

There's a well-known story by one of my favorite writers, Sadat Hasan Manto, about Toba Tek Singh. Quite a darkly comic look at how Partition affected the Hindu, Muslim and Sikh inmates of Indian lunatic asylums. Here's a nice translation.

I've been proud of Naren Shankar, Sunil Nayar and Seetharaman Narayanan and Vinod Balakrishnan for many years, without really knowing a great deal about who they are.

Meet Seetharaman Narayanan.

Bong Breaker, I agree with you about how it's good to see desi names doing well on such big-time hit shows. There's a guy called Jay Chattaway who's been significantly involved in Trekkie music (and elsewhere too), isn't there.

Also agree with you about Shatner and Spader's characters -- the stuff they get away with saying is quite outrageous (especially Denny Crane who doesn't give a damn about political correctness or "propriety in the workplace".)

Back to Star Trek: I always thought that, in the absence of any major desi characters, Captain Sisko did well (he's my favourite Trek captain) once he shaved his head, grew that goatee, and really threw himself into Amitabh Bachchan-style baritone-voiced machismo. Great stuff.

DesiDancer,

At least Jai Singh appreciates me ;)

I think it was the "twitching hips" comment you made on one of the other threads that did it for me. *wink* Saucy transatlantic hottie....

There's a Stephanie Sengupta who's like a producer or somethng for Law & Order: criminal intent.

Klingon could be from ancient indian Kalinga kingdom...

Now, criminal intent is the one with Private Piles from Full Metal Jacket isn't it? I like that one, he's very good. And a Sengupta is producing? We're probably related, I can link myself to almost all Senguptas and Dasguptas!

Yeah I remember seeing that Manish, cool link turbanhead posted...the Adobe offices are almost as cool as the Pixar offices. I *HEART* Adobe sooooo much. It's the exact opposite of what I feel towards Microsoft. Premiere, Photoshop, Encore, Acrobat have been such integral parts of my life for the last few years. Is that sad? I don't care!

... the Adobe offices are almost as cool as the Pixar offices.

Having been to all three, the Pixar and Macromedia campuses are/were way hipper than Adobe's.

Bong Breaker,

Jai, you've hit new levels of corny.

It's all in jest, buddy ;) One shouldn't make a habit of hitting on married ladies 10,000 miles away that one's never even met....

Unless it's Legha from Rouge, of course (not that you need me to tell you that *wink*).

Why have you been to all three (you lucky bastard)? Yay for Macromedia too, funny you mentioned them - as I looked in my Start Menu for any Adobe programmes I'd omitted, I saw how many Macromedia apps I have and thought to myself "Ah, I like them too." That reminds me, I should start work on my blog some time soon!

Why have you been to all three (you lucky bastard)?

I used to live next to Pixar and had biz meetings with Macromedia and Adobe.

Impressive stuff. I should be more impressed with someone saying they had business meetings with Goldmans or UBS or GM or GE or whatever, but those three offices strike me as really happy places to work at, unlike all my friends at Goldmans and UBS etc. Software engineering and animation combine creativity with a scientific brain...something I admire a lot.

One shouldn't make a habit of hitting on married ladies 10,000 miles away that one's never even met

What the? SHOULDN'T? Ah man! I've been doing that for ages.

Bong Breaker,

You're right about techie firms, but I think that's to do with the whole West Coast/Silicon Valley vibe compared to the more cut-throat and aggressive corporate cultures of the investment banking sector.

What the? SHOULDN'T? Ah man! I've been doing that for ages.

*laughing* I suspect you can get away with it. There's always a danger of accidentally offending the other party without realising it, especially as there's a lot of nutters out there and the ladies concerned would have no idea that one really is a good guy in real life. But hey, if the other party's willing to play along lightheartedly, it's all good fun; if not, then be a gentleman.

Now it's my turn to say I'm kidding. I don't hit on anyone over the Internet! And I certainly don't hit on married women.

Much.

Much.

By "much", I'm assuming you mean "in the last 5 minutes".

lol

..you rock

/bow

Wonder how many had turn down their speakers. :)

Well the Ferengi/Phirangi (Farsi - Fer-hanghi = foreign) is one mentioned a lot, but I wonder if we read too much into things.

and for TNG fans, Data named his child Lal, after the Hindi word for 'beloved'

Can I just hijack this space-related thread to say that my very own Tooting (birthplace: Naveen Andrews, home: several wannabe suicide bombers, heartland: south London communism, world capital: fried chicken) has landed on Mars! Yeah baby!

You guys are all such geeks!

It's interesting that the original Star Trek had so many obviously ethnically marked enemies. Klingons, Khan, etc.

The Next Generation, by contrast, had white guys like "Q," and the Borg. Q at least was too vanilla for my tastes (prefer Khaaaan). The Borg was aaiiight though. (Have often considered joining their organization)

Deep Space Nine seemed to go back to ethnics, with the prominence given to the Firangi... also the Naren Shankar episode mentioned by Deepa in Comment #30 of this thread.

My current favorite sci-fi show (other than "Lost") is the new "Battlestar Galactica." They've invented this whole religion, which actually doesn't appear to be related to Sikhism at all. (Though I'm sure an alert SM commentor might be able to find a parallel... ;-)

It's interesting that the original Star Trek had so many obviously ethnically marked enemies. Klingons, Khan, etc.

Deep Space Nine seemed to go back to ethnics, with the prominence given to the Firangi...

I think that's why these are my favorite Trek series. (Accordingly, that's probably why the Klingon-focused eps of TNG are by and large the only ones of that series which I think are really good.)

Amardeep,

My current favorite sci-fi show (other than "Lost") is the new "Battlestar Galactica." They've invented this whole religion, which actually doesn't appear to be related to Sikhism at all.

Hehehehehehe!

Abhi, no need to worry about getting that REAL Khan chest, not with that hot post-Mutiny look you're currently rocking. :)

My current favorite sci-fi show (other than "Lost") is the new "Battlestar Galactica." They've invented this whole religion, which actually doesn't appear to be related to Sikhism at all. (Though I'm sure an alert SM commentor might be able to find a parallel... ;-)

*laughing* As far as I know, there's no connection with Sikhism in BSG (so far, anyway). The religious angle is pretty clear-cut, though: Liberal Polytheists (Ancient Greeks, although some might say Hindus too, considering the title song of the show is the Gayatri Mantra -- at least in the British version) versus fanatical, aggressive Monotheists (take a wild guess).

The new Battlestar Galactica show is very good indeed -- totally different from Star Trek and obviously the original 70s series too. Someone described it as The West Wing in space. Definitely not suitable for children, though ;)

Deep Space Nine seemed to go back to ethnics, with the prominence given to the Firangi...

Not sure if I entirely agree with this; I thought the Klingon focus was huge, especially in the later seasons.

But he made the wrong choice with the name - a Singh called Khan?

You've never met a ... Singh Basra or a Iqbal Singh.

They've invented this whole religion, which actually doesn't appear to be related to Sikhism at all.

My Nanay looks like a sexed up Yoda (shivers)

Uncleji,

Nice to have you back Sir....I'm presuming you and Auntieji were away on one of your "Rrrromantic holidays" to re-stoke the fires of that ever-burning Punjabi lub, eh...

My Nanay looks like a sexed up Yoda (shivers)

Plenty of north Indians look like Chewbacca on a bad hair day. Come on guys, admit it -- excess hirsuteness -- you know it's a problem ;)

Klingons for Christ!

Best recent reference to "Khaaaaaaaaaaan!" was John Stewart's impersonation on The Daily Show last summer when doing a story on 'the father of Iraq's nuclear program' Abdul Qadeer Khan.

Would he count as a villian?

thanx to the Indian brains vinod balakrishnan, seetharaman narayanan for their contribute to develop adobe photoshop

Gene Roddenberry has used many Sikh characters in his sci-fi world

Star Trek had a Sikh
Andromeda had a Sikh character called Vikram Singh Khalsa

The Klingons were modelled after Sikhs (not 100% as they over exaggerated the customs and values of the klingons)

Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh, however this was never stressed enough in the 1960's tv show or the movie! It simply says he was Khan Noonien Singh of the Punjab

Also since Sikhism is one of the only religions that cannot be broken down by science (sikhism actually emraces science), Gene Roddenberry was fascinated by Sikhism!