She got canned in a particularly spectacular way...is that the first time Trump has bypassed the Project Manager's selections and just fired someone?

I was showing British people that modern Indian girls could get drunk and have a laugh

Modern? From the article:

My brothers had told me that they’d kill me if they caught me dating, but I was like: wahey, here I come boys! Stupidly, the first guy I got it on with was on Fresher’s week and he turns out to be my husband, my first and last sexual experience. Jatinder still says I ruined his Fresher’s week! I’ve got to admit I did all the chasing and went a bit psycho on him. After six months I was like: you’ve had sex with me, you have to marry me. We kept our relationship a secret from my family throughout university but after graduation, I just couldn’t bear the thought of going back to living under our strict family rules, so went for the marriage option. Being married was a freedom thing for me.

Are people's families really this restrictive in this day and age?

Are people's families really this restrictive in this day and age?

Ohhh yeah. You'd better believe it.

You broke my heart Toral... you broke my heart!

My brothers had told me that they’d kill me if they caught me dating

Just to clarify, I didn't think sikh parents are usually that strict about their daughters....

I watched Toral in disbelief last night. I do think that minority women need to stand up for themselves in a business environment and should be commended for that (and it's hard, I've been there). But her arrogance was embarassing and just so immature. She actually said she wouldn't even hire certain team mates as her administrative assistant. I hope this experience makes her re-examine her attitude to life (I know I'm being an optimist). And don't even get me started on her suggestion that she can't wear a costume for religious reasons--just another sign of her desperate immaturity. Anyway, this all served as a good reminder of how not to behave and how at times we may all have behaved in the past (well to some degree, even if we just thought it!) An ivy league education means nothing if you have no humility.

Ex-Lawyer - Amen. It was unbearable to watch. Especially because she got my hopes up by being low-key and calm in the first couple episodes. IT WAS ALL LIES!

Toral Mehta is an embarrassement to South Asians. What religion forbids one to wear a silly costume? More importantly, what religion teaches to be an arrogant person?

I disagree about the costume bit, I think she was absolutely right in not wearing it. It would be one thing if everyone wore it, quite another when she risked being a butt of ridicule for life. Imagine the headlines:

Zip Toral zapped.
Zippy Toral zipped.

Not to mention the funny photoshopped pics appearing all over the blogosphere.

What's up with the "religious reasons" she gave for not wearing the costume? Anyone know what the @#$%^ she was talking about?

argus_nj, I tend to agree with you on that bit...on surface level, you have a gaggle of white, blonde ladies ordering the indian woman into a stupid costume. as much as i'm not so much a fan of toral's, i had to agree with her on that part, although I thought she might have been a bit more diplomatic in her disagreement.
(And it was just embarrasing and obviously a cop-out when she pulled out "personal, religious reasons" later that night.)

I haven't seen the British show, but it seems like Narinder also "behaved badly". Her story gave me a little indirect insight:

You'd be crazy too, if you grew up in a controlling household where your brothers threaten to kill you (not feeling safe at home) ontop of the stresses of being discriminated against by society at large. How lonely. Some people may have the emotional insight to deal with that kind of pain, and do fine as adults, but inevitably some get lost... drugs, alcohol, depression, ACTING OUT ON TV, etc.

As for Toral, I also feel bad for her... just a little, anyways. She's very materialistic and insecure (goes hand in hand, dunnit?), and I can't help but wonder if it's the way she was raised. Some of you have voiced that she doesn't have houses, etc etc etc, and that is a huge alarm bell. If that's fabricated by her or others, and she approved it, that's a problem. Being raised to believe that possessions and a good education and beauty will gain you respect can result in feelings of failure when you don't acheive those things, which leads to a lot of different behaviours such as posing and pathological lying. I'm not singling out the brown community for this - it's prevalent in all cultures - but it's still an issue. This is going to sound like idealism, but I mean it: you have to love kids for who they are and quit harping on wealth as identity.

I really doubt SM readers have these problems, but you probably know someone who does...

Also, correct me if I'm wrong you Mutineers living in the U.S., but I don't think she was on the Today show this morning, and they usually have the most recently booted Apprentice on the day after.

Was this part of Toral's image management?

If so, bad call by her, to leave the firing and that taxi-cab confession as her parting salvos. At least on the Today show, the fired ones have a chance to talk a bit more about what they do in real life, give their side of the story and try to leave on a graceful note. (Before they get dragged back in to participate in one of the tasks when the group gets narrowed down to 2 candidates....)

What's up with the "religious reasons" she gave for not wearing the costume?

If anything, religion gives you explicit permission to wear funny costumes ;)

Ok. She didn't wanna wear the costume. Reason offered. Cultural limitations.
Reason 2 offered. Status a.k.a her employees will look down on her (?)
Reason 3 not offered. Man look at me. Men are drooling all over me on Sepia Mutiny and you want me to wear that suit?
Reason 4 not offered and later offered to Sir Don, saying it was offered in the first place, but wasn't offered, but she insisted it was offered, which Sir Don knew was not offered. - Religious reasons.

Pink Slip offered. yes.
Taxi explanation offered. yes.
Taxi explanation offered was. no. didn't get to hear it. Carmen Electra on Channel 254 was too tempting to keep me focusses on Ms. Toral.

The issue is not that she didn't want to wear the costume but the fact that she used her religion as the reason why. It's about honesty and integrity, or the lack thereof.

The *only* religious connection that I can see, and that too is REALLY far fetched and is based on an assumption. It is as follows:

I think she is Gujarati (assumption #1)
She may be Jain (assumption #2)

Jain's have a thing for "bugs" - they are not supposed to eat roots, or wear shoes - and try to do everything they can to not harm other living creatures. Maybe, her convoluted logic was such: If she wears the costume, she would somehow be mocking that aspect of her belief.

And, Trump has bypassed the PM's selection and just fired someone in previous seasons. I can't remember who it was but I think it has happened only once (But then again, I did not watch the last season religiously).

That being said, I think she is full of sh*t and is an arrogant and overtly proud person.

you know she's going to dine out on her 15 seconds for years. Do the D-list celebrity circuit until no one wants her but those odd, desperately networky South Asian "fundraisers" and such...the ones that print out a "program" for the night -

"With appearances by the celebrated actor brown-guy-in-car-ad, famous musician two-bars-of-my-sitar-piece-sampled-by-Nas, and the woman who faced down Donald Trump himself, Toral Mehta from The Apprentice!!"

pfft.

quite another when she risked being a butt of ridicule for life

Oh, it's not all that bad. Attitude is what counts. A person who plays it off with a little self deprecating humor would have been OK.

If she's this wound up normally, I would HATE to see her on a PMS day.

you know she's going to dine out on her 15 seconds for years. Do the D-list celebrity circuit until no one wants her

hate this gal.
she's horrid.
have gone on my rant about her several times in this blog...

ugh...
the brown omorosa..
great job toral
you're the wicked bitch of the east.

cheers!
http://garbanzobean.blogspot.com/2005/10/oral-toral-is-fired.html

The hottest topic in the desi blogosphere on a FRI afternoon is Toral...the moral...and very oral...

WoW! I like the way her name sounds! :)

Just thought of giving my support to her and inturn get some wrath from the Mutineers :)

Ang

I know one of Narinder's friends - it is called hype and exagerration. And yes, you really shouldnt bring religion into it - that is stupid.

Narinder has started off a career as an actress and I believe she currently has a part in a radio show - good luck to her.

Friend: why didn't you audition for "So You Think You Can Dance?" me: because I know I can dance.

DD, with that line you just toppled Toral from the top of my (long) list of 'desi girls I most want to exchange biodatas with'. Nothing works my gears like some 'tude.

By the way - I dont think there is a comparison between Toral and Narinder - the comparison will be with Saima Khan who was the runner up in the British series of the Apprentice - she had a big mouth and was full of herself too.

And yes, you really shouldnt bring religion into it - that is stupid.

I wasn't bringing religion into it. I said and clarified that I was surprised as my sikh/hindu raised friends did not have families that strict, especially being raised off the subcontient. I said I was SURPRISED - not trying to make a connect between the 2. Sheesh! How the heck do I know - maybe the whole dynamic is different in the UK or even the U.S. I was curious. And she sounded pretty serious - who accuses their brothers of threatening murder as hype??

Why not read my comments and ask to clarify if you're confused, before calling me stupid - that would be smart.

... the comparison will be with Saima Khan...

You're thinking of Saira Khan, innit?

If she felt there were religious implications for not wearing the costume, that she approved of as manager (I think), then she should have spoken up. Wasn't she suppose to step up on this task to prove herself? In my opinion, she was getting rather annoying with her arrogant, snooty ways.

bringing religion into it was really disrespectful...

1. lying about bringing it up before
2. no hindu tenet says you can't wear costumes...
3. she basically didn't want to do it out of self-respect.. (which she really has none of)yeah right.. her tirade in the cab ride outta trump tower was hilarious.. i played that over and over again on my tivo laughing my arse off...

hats off toral.. you're your own self proclaimed IDIOT

Lamentations from desi girls all around. She's a brutal person indeed, but no need for the "set back for brown business women everywhere". smacks of eagerness to impress your masters

Ang

Maybe it could just be that she came from a strict family. Strict families come in all shapes sizes and religions.

Dont stress.

Manish

Yes - thanks for correcting me.

Pablo, don't worry, I'm not stressed. I have questions, and I like to ask them, as I sometimes don't have all the answers. End.

------

Not directed at you P., but I'm getting tired of people telling me not to stress or take a chill pill, (as has been done in the past), especially when I'm being completely logical and hopefully, sensitive to other readers. I think it's based on the underlying sexist assumption that women are irrational and overly passionate and emotional and illogical. I've seen other female commenters and posters accused of the same. Cut it out.

I don't like Toral, but this whole costume issue and the flimsy 'religion' argument she used, has got me thinking.

Though I didn't like her performance earlier, I was hoping she would really step up in last night's episode and show her teammates what she was capable of. She ddn't push hard enough to be project manager, so she set herself up to be totally sidetracked by a group of pissed-off teammates who wanted more than anything to see her fail.

What troubles me about the costume thing, though, is that I felt *uncomfortable* for Toral seeing how this gaggle of (mostly) white women were ganging up on her. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done that, but I did feel a racial undercurrent in their aggression.

Did anyone else feel like Toral was being unfairly pressured to wear the costume not only because her teammates disliked her, but because a racial dynamic came into the mix?

If I were Toral I would have said -- why the hell are you insisting on MY doing this when we have other people here who could just as easily don this ridiculous costume.

Ang

Don't know if I speak for anyone else here, but the fact that you're female wasn't obvious to me from your other posts. Now we know.

Lamentations from desi girls all around. She's a brutal person indeed, but no need for the "set back for brown business women everywhere". smacks of eagerness to impress your masters

well, obviously we uncle-tom lovin' desi girls are jealous of the idiot toral, that's why we're so vituperative; you forgot to mention that canard. GFY with your smug knowledge of...nothing.

Don't know if I speak for anyone else here, but the fact that you're female wasn't obvious to me from your other posts. Now we know.

Maybe I'm not female - you still don't know. I'm just assuming people are assuming I'm female. For all you know I could be a male gangster in an adidas tracksuit named Angie.

Regardless, I have read alot of posts directed towards females that are pretty harsh. I wasn't talking about myself - (I've had it pretty easy, actually). For instance, when a female poster used passionate swear words for a very logical purpose, she was accused of being emotional. That's just one example, but I've seen many. I don't like it one bit, regardless of whether I'm male or female.

This may not be the appropriate place to voice my concern, but it came up, and it's a light-hearted enough post that I can divert attention away a bit. There are enough Toral postings out there!

Ang

I'm going for the bait, just for the hell of it.

I'm intrigued. Based on what you said above ("I've seen other female commenters and posters accused of the same"), where you seem to include yourself in the other female category, we shouldn't assume you're female?

And I'm also intrigued by this: "when a female poster used passionate swear words for a very logical purpose, she was accused of being emotional". If I had to guess -- and I may be dead wrong -- you weren't happy with the tone/language discussion we had regarding Anna's IITM post, but I don't recall anyone (including me) at any point accusing her of being emotional.

where you seem to include yourself in the other female category, we shouldn't assume you're female?

The tracksuit gangster named Angie was just a joke. Not trying to be mysterious, but I'm going to leave it at that.

Yes, we should be careful about making assumptions that a woman is being emotional or overly passionate rather than having a purpose behind her words. Even when not using passionate language, women are accused of being "emotional". Rather than picking each example case by case, which I could do since you took "the bait", can't we just say, "look, maybe we should (both male and female) be more careful about these types of assumptions". That's all I want to say- There's nothing to argue about here. Sometimes people make mistakes/assumptions without consciously noting the underlying source, but I've noticed it and needed to acknowledge it.

I'm going for the bait, just for the hell of it.

For the record, I completely forgot it was you who brought up the iitm post language issue. So, no, I wasn't trying to bait you. I was actually confused by the above 'going for the bait" comment until I put 2 and 2 together. I don't try to target people out or hold grudges. You came around somewhat, always wrote in a diplomatic, constructive fashion, and I think that's cool.

Though I didn't like her performance earlier, I was hoping she would really step up in last night's episode and show her teammates what she was capable of. She ddn't push hard enough to be project manager, so she set herself up to be totally sidetracked by a group of pissed-off teammates who wanted more than anything to see her fail.

What troubles me about the costume thing, though, is that I felt *uncomfortable* for Toral seeing how this gaggle of (mostly) white women were ganging up on her. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done that, but I did feel a racial undercurrent in their aggression.

Did anyone else feel like Toral was being unfairly pressured to wear the costume not only because her teammates disliked her, but because a racial dynamic came into the mix?

Timepass: so strange, I usually don't find myself in agreement with you :) But yeah, I was totally feeling that same uncomfortable racial division too. (This has nothing to do with Toral herself as a person.)

I agree that the girls had it out for Toral in their mind but it was the way they straight up GANGED UP on her that was a little scary. (And calling her a bitch too her face, etc.) I don't think pulling out the race/religion card was smart for Toral to do but I wonder if she even noticed the racial divide.

I felt sorry for Toral. I agree that she should have been fired last week but when she was cornered like that yesterday, she (not surprisingly) lashed out. She has a sharp tongue but few people wouldn't have been able to control it.

Brimful linked to Television Without Pity's commentary on last night's episode, and it's pretty caustic but spot-on:

...Toral hijacks the entire episode by stepping up and making an exasperatingly huge deal about how she doesn't want to dress up as Zippy The Ice Cream Idiot, which would be fine except how -- spurred on by the Mean Girl solidarity of the Blondes -- she's eventually driven into a crazy-person corner and steps up all about how dressing like a giant milkshake is against her religion.

Yes, the episode played like an adult version of "Mean Girls", except no one was particularly deserving of sympathy.

But to look at it from a gender point of view - it seemed to me the women were more interested in getting rid of Toral than in beating the men. All their conversation revolved around Toral, little about the client.

The men did not like their PM, Clay, who did behave like a tyrant, but they focused on the project, and would worry about settling personal scores later. And after the men won, they agreed to grant Clay exemption, because despite being a jerk, he was the jerk that led them to victory.

I have seen this dynamic personally. I used to work for a small economic consulting firm. At the time I joined, I was one of two men at our entry level - the rest of the junior staff were all women. But the women could not get along with each other, a lot of time was wasted in trying to settle personal disputes. Eventually, the women left one by one, and the office became almost entirely men. It became a frathouse for smart dudes.

For all the talk about women facing obstacles up the corporate ladder, it is often other women blocking their way.

Interesting, I didn't notice som much the racial dynamic as I did the "mean girls out to get her" aspect.

I don't recall offhand, but where was the African-American woman on the show? Was she with Toral and Broken Ankle Girl? Or was she in the van with the Cool Kids?

And KXB, I have to agree, I see so much of that girl-on-girl hating, in my own workplace included. Funny how in last night's episode, the guy from the south was even willing to take orders from a gay man (!) and get into costume as a woman (double !), because he was focused on the outcome, not the process.

I don't think she had to step up as PM. I think even if she had done so, the others probably would not have done jack, and therefore she would have still been fired.

She is a piece of work, though, isn't she? LOL.

Comparing Toral to Narinder is outrageous.

Most viewers and the blondes who aren't from the east coast couldn't understand the world Toral comes from. The blondes are ignorant. What Toral said was true in the cab ride and thoroughly appropriate for Trump. Trump shamelessly expresses his ego, and that's ok?

What arrogance! 'I won't even hire those people as my administrative assistant'!!! Wow. Going down in a blaze of self-praising glory!

I think she did this Apprentice thing just for the exposure, not really for the job itself. I don't know how she can survive in ANY job. If her attitude on the show is her true attitude in real life, I am sorry, but she would be destroyed pretty quickly.

It could be a caste thing - What's the caste that's driven by money? Vaishya?