Timed for Diwali or to derail the upcoming talks between India and Pakistan, or both, I wonder?

Very sad indeed. My condolences to the Indians on here. I have a couple of close friends from Delhi, and they were fortunately not in the area. However, I now await the eventual finger pointing. Lets just hope it doesn't affect the peace talks, though I'm sure some will insist on a policy change. My full comment can be found on my blog - just click above.

Manish - you act as if Mushie is the puppetmaster to all these groups, and just waiting to strike at India whenever he gets a chance. My father met him years ago when he was just a Corps Commander, and over a few drinks he basically said he wants to see the army reduced to half its size once there is some sort of settlement over Kashmir - this is not Zia v2.0. He did severely disappoint me over Kargil, but once Sept 11 came by, he knows he can't fool around anymore to get into a better position to bargain.

From the analysis of the blasts on BBC, it seems that they were homemade devices - made inside India, not smuggled over the LOC or anything. In addition, there is the element of money being involved - i.e. organized crime is being paid to carry out the actual attacks. So this is becoming more and more internal, and by blaming Musharraf sitting in Pindi GHQ isn't going to solve anything. Plus putting in a Congress man and taking out Saeed - who was fairly successful at reducing support for the hardliners - doesn't make India any safer.

Fuck it seriously - I don't even know why so much blood is being shed over a piece of land. I'd just declare the LOC the official border, and make it one big free trade zone and demilitarize the whole region. But no, there's these arcane concepts of pride and religion that have to fuck everything up for everyone. Like Marcellus Wallace said - "Fuck Pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps"

Sorry for the rant

First, my condolences.

This is a very bad news - I also hope its fallout is minimal on many fronts.

I agree with alybaba that the peace talks should not break down.

Most likely LeT is behind it. They are super-organized. While it is true that the armies are busy in Kashmir, it does not require direct involvement of an army to support a terrorist organization. You need to supply money, arms and ammunitions and an implicit support.

I have to agree alybaba that LOC should be declared as an official border.

However, we still do not know who did it, why - let us not rush to the judgments. Also, let us see how India can make itself more safe.

Hatred spread during days before Diwali and Id is not a good omen.

Agree with alybaba too, blaming musharraf for everything is kinda reductionist. Most of the jihadi groups hate him too.

Let's hope people are alright.

I have to agree alybaba that LOC should be declared as an official border.

Disagree.

blaming musharraf for everything is kinda reductionist.

Same stand.

You have to understand it from a game theoristic perspective. The classical research was based on the premise that people are rational, simply because it is difficult to formulate strategy when you do not have any idea of the other party's line of thinking. However, the current nobel prize winner in economics has given us some hope. It is clear that a party has slight advantage when it credibly convinces the other party that it is slightly nuts. Think North Korea.

Pakistan is playing this game too. They are the ones willing to go on a self-destructive pre-emptive attack.

For real progress to be made:
- Mushy must go
- real democracy must get installed in Pakistan

Until such time, no appeasement will yield results.

Yes, but declaring the LOC as an official border is anathema to most Pakistanis. I'm in the extreme minority. They're like "we haven't fought 50 years for nothing blah blah" Newsflash - you never take sunk costs into account when making an investment decision. Plus with this quake, its quite clear that Kashmir could never be truly independant (which is what they claim they're fighting fought)

But lets be honest, Indian adminstration in Kashmir has also left a lot to be desired - I believe Mr. Sumit Ganguly wrote a great book on that one.

This is off-topic point.

Salman Rushdie was on NPR. He very elquently said that both India and Pakistan have royally f**d Kashmir. These have been my thoughts since I remember.

However. lets first concentrate on Delhi blast, and 3 million people stranded in Kashimr - with winter descending upon them.

argus

How will be part of this democracy and lead it? Can you please tell me?

As a Pakistani in Pakistan, I cannot see anyone credible who has popular support and political backing - perhaps from New Jersey the view is slightly better.

argus_nj,

Very insightful comment. Conceding the LoC as border will merely embolden the entire Pakistani military-jihadist complex and serve as a validation of the effectiveness of their use of Islamist terrorism. They will become even stronger and merriliy go on to the next strategic target. Appeasement will also indicate weakness to the Chinese who will further entrench themselves in Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh.

The only option for India is to inflict unbearable pain and a crushing defeat to the Islamo-fascist military-jihadist complex in Pakistan.

The only option for India is to inflict unbearable pain and a crushing defeat to the Islamo-fascist military-jihadist complex in Pakistan.

Joke right?

Or did you forget how painful Kargil was to both sides of the border?

alybaba,

That's a good point. However, by the same token, there's no way any Indian government will ever have the political capital to sell turning the LoC into a border to the Indian people. I guess this is what makes it an unfortunate stalemate.

Gujjubhai

As much as I hate religous fundamentalists, Indian aggression will only make this "Islamo-fascist military-jihadist complex" that you speak of, stronger. Instead of 1 or 2 million, you'd have 50 million to deal with.

And lets get this straight - sacrificing India's economic development, geopolitical status and global respect for the next 25 years in order to gain the other half of Himalayan territory that has been just ravaged by a massive earthquake is the way to go?

Wow, and I thought jihadis were crazy.

Just before we confirm it was some extremist Islamist affiliated outfit - just recently there has been talk about an attempt to revive Khalistani militancy - is there a possibility that it might be linked to this?

Or did you forget how painful Kargil was to both sides of the border?

And the point is....? Yes, wars are painful. The only reason why civilized peoples are forced into fighting them is because the consequences of losing are a lot worse. Look at the living hell India has created for Kashmiri hindu refugees after losing political control and abandonig them to the Islamists in 1989.

My point is this: I do not see a peaceful way of defeating the ideology of hatred that drives the MJC in Pakistan to seek destruction and dismemberment of India leading to reestablishment of Islamic Caliphate.You and I may think this is a lunatic fantasy, but millions of Pakistanis are actively engaged in a war to realize this. Kashmir and Kargil need to be seen in this larger context. How much easier has life been since then with the plane hijack in 1999 and release of uber-terrorists, attack on the Parliament and a continuous string of terrost attacks since Kargil?

sacrificing India's economic development, geopolitical status and global respect for the next 25 years in order to gain the other half of Himalayan territory

That was precisely my point. Mr AlyBaba, I understand what you are trying to say, but the fact remains that we are perceived as not nuts. Hence we will never launch a massive scale attack for blasts like this. Hence it will go on ad infinitum.

The only thing that could change was Pakistan's internal political structure. But since rational people like you resign yourselves to fate, it is not going to, anytime soon.

So, let's just remain friends, hope you had a good Ramadan. But let's not discuss this issue. We won't reach a concensus.

Just before we confirm it was some extremist Islamist affiliated outfit - just recently there has been talk about an attempt to revive Khalistani militancy - is there a possibility that it might be linked to this?

This is a possiblity. so... who wants to nuke Punjab...

...going one
...going two..

alybaba

I am Indian and am with you on this. It is true, we have some real macho men with their dreams of guns and 'game theory' and chest thumping about 'war' on our side too (see above)

Always talk brave things about the need for sacrifice and war from the safety of their armchair when its not they or their families who will be bereft and weeping. And this thing about India not accepting the LOC as the border - what are they talking about? Are they suggesting that the Indian masses covet Azad Kashmir? I dont mean to be rude, but sometimes I wonder about how blind and deluded some people really are.

Keep thumping your chest guys!

Thanks for posting here alybaba i always do value reading my Pakistani cousins and friends contributions ;-)

This is a possiblity. so... who wants to nuke Punjab...

Lets nuke Gujarat first for the anti-minority and anti-state terorrism practised there in the last few years

Argus,

Yup, absolutely right.

Alybaba,

If you follow Argus's line of reasoning, India needs to appear crazy enough to be ready and willing to go to the extent of sacrificing everything else for the purpose of defeating the Pakistani IF MJC. Otherwise, they will merely keep expoliting India's desire for peace & economic development as a weakness to extract concessions and continue the conflict.

Come to think of it, it may not even be that crazy : India's economic development is not FDI driven and the domestic economy is fairly resilient to terrorism. The rise as a military superpower, in fact, is even more likely to drive India towards taking a hardline stand on territorial integrity: who will take India seriously if it can't enforce even its own territorial claims?

On the whole, it's a shitty situation to be in and personally, I am not hopeful for the prospects of peace in the region anytime soon.

I'm agnostic, but yes I had a good Ramadan since the office closes at 2:30 and I get a good 2 hours of golf on a daily basis.

And its not resigning one's self to fate, its looking at reality. The reason why India's democracy is a democracy as opposed to Pakistan's is one that goes back 50 years - land reforms. Feudal power was abolished, and the common man had a voice. However in Pakistan, the feudals have maintained grips on political power since the days of Liaquat Ali Khan, when they had him assasinated.

Its really very simple. Majority of the population is rural. That rural population work as bonded labourers on the lands of the feudal lords. So when election time comes around, they have to vote for who their feudal lord tells them to or they are kicked off the land and lose their livelihood. Its so bad that a lot feudal families have 2 family members running from 2 different parties, so they have a representation no matter what. You know its really bad when the so called Socialists (PPP)is run by a landowning family.

They only way to change this structure is land distribution, which can't be done politically since the people opposed to it sit in the National Assembly. The other option is a peasant revolution, which not too many peasants. will be willing to risk. What other routes do you have in mind that you could share argus?

Always talk brave things about the need for sacrifice and war from the safety of their armchair when its not they or their families who will be bereft and weeping.

Wrong assumption. Have you thought about the possibility that some of us are more sensitive to such issues precisely because our families have, in fact, a lot more at stake or made more sacrifices in the past? The joke is on you, dude: it's people like you who have no clue about how some of our uncles and cousins fighting on the borders or as cops are creating the safe cocoon for people like you to live in and pontificate to the rest of us.

This is a possiblity. so... who wants to nuke Punjab...

Dang it...good point. But who will then run our desi grocs store...Lets nuke "game theory"'s arse first.

Have you thought about the possibility that some of us are more sensitive to such issues precisely because our families have, in fact, a lot more at stake

Oh I get it, the plan is to establish an entire chain of 7-11's in Azad Kashmir, with the lowest prices on this side of the LOC, and your folks have already paid the franchise fees.

Oh I get it, the plan is to establish an entire chain of 7-11's in Azad Kashmir, with the lowest prices on this side of the LOC, and your folks have already paid the franchise fees.

Brilliant idea!
Lets have a "mother of all Malls" right smack at the LOC. Peeppul sell shtuff - peeppul buy shtuff. All live happy happy.

The joke is on you, dude: it's people like you who have no clue about how some of our uncles and cousins fighting on the borders or as cops are creating the safe cocoon for people like you to live in and pontificate to the rest of us.

Yeah yeah yeah big man - more chest thumping and dick measuring - you know nothing about me or my family and I am not going to get into a stupid 'my-family-has-more-at-stake-than-you' wank fest - so hilarious.

Keep war mongering big strong and brave game theory dude in your armchair! ;-)

Umm...wait, we are talking terrorist attacks here in Delhi...not full fledged war in the border. Can we stick to the issue at hand.

Do I think the terrorists are from outside India? Most probably yes. Just because the bombs are handmade in India does not mean that the morons who participated in this sheer act of cowardice were from India.

This is what happens when we make the border with Pakistan (post 'quake) a little more porous. And before you jump on me, I dont think Pakistan is directly to blame for this.

Sure there are bureaucratic misogynistic bunglers in Pindi who can't keep their border with Afghanistan secure and let extremism thrive within their borders. That lets extremists (or as they are popularly known -- Jehadi Islamo-Fascists) take advantage of India's perfectly laudable foriegn policy stand to extend humanitarian aid to a beleagured neighbour.

Sure there are bureaucratic misogynistic bunglers in Pindi...

You mean misanthropic?

What other routes do you have in mind that you could share argus?

The other route is too slow for my taste but it is happening. The proof is you. Enterprising young fellas like you can convert Pakistan into an offshoring/BPO superpower. Of course you have to develop your own niche.

Once the progressive populace reaches about 15 - 25% of GDP contribution, you will make a big impact. But it will take time.

This is what happens when we make the border with Pakistan (post 'quake) a little more porous

But that hasn't happened yet.

Condolences to the families affected.

Uggh. How awful. I will be exponentially pissed at the cowardice of extremists, especially if their presence is proved due to a post-quake porous border.... Tis cowardice, regardless. Sick.

We dont know if the pakistanis did it yet but commentators are saying it looks like an LeT inspired attack.
After the dust settles, If its pakistan well then India should immideately take punitive measures. For starters withdraw the quake aid that its promised pakistan.
India ought to adopt Bush doctrine.
If they yell Jihaad, we will bring Jihaad to them rather then them bringing it to us.

what an absurd discussion.

alybaba, you speak the truth. of course, you and i both know that the powerful and the ideologues on either side aren't interested in any kind of negotiated solution, especially one that appears to put the two on an equal footing. can't have that. must have a winner and a loser.

the powerful at least have a good excuse: they have vested interests in things staying as they are. the armchair ideologues are another story.

in any case, wherever you all stand on the issue, don't lose track of alybaba's intelligent analysis in comment #23. the big long term difference is that pakistan stayed feudal (or became more so, in new ways) while india consolidated its democracy (warts and all).

peace

"India ought to adopt Bush doctrine.
If they yell Jihaad, we will bring Jihaad to them rather then them bringing it to us."

Oh yes, Guru Galib, adopting the Bush (neocon) doctrine of invading unarmed countries that posed no threat to the United States and killing tens of thousands of civilians is the way to go?? while multiplying the number of "mini-jihads" in Iraq and around the world?? you're insane, like bush and his cabal.

you're insane, like bush and his cabal

Always talk brave things about the need for sacrifice and war from the safety of their armchair when its not they or their families who will be bereft and weeping.

Wrong assumption. Have you thought about the possibility that some of us are more sensitive to such issues precisely because our families have, in fact, a lot more at stake or made more sacrifices in the past?

A common pattern is emerging on SM:

When an argument is presented:
a) Resort to personalities
b) Make illogical and incoherent statements
c) Make absurd assumptions about the poster's beliefs
d) All of the above

the armchair ideologues are another story.

Who is not an armchair ideologue here? Are you going to bear arms? Perhaps you will participate in a feel-good blue rally in Washington Square Park (with gays, bis and deviants thrown in for good measure) and shout slogans. How does that solve the problem?

Lets nuke "game theory"'s arse first.

Of course, let us also dump all the scientific progress made so far and go back to stone age. No India, no Pakistan, no problem. See, how easy it is?

It is tempting to join a herd, easy way out. The posters above did not even care to read all the posts. The idea is, as long as you take the general tried and tested bleeding heart libby position (indeed helps you get laid perhaps), you do not need to expend any energy.

The terrorists were probably not Kashmiris because any poor Kashmiri anywhere in India has the local police so hot on his tail just for being Kashmiri he would have trouble going to the bathroom alone let alone find and detonate a bomb.

Perhaps the Indian Muslim groups that have been promising revenge since Ayodhya and the Gujarat riots have finally arrived?

The Indian state deserves retaliation. India being a democracy, that means ordinary Indians deserve it too. There is no claiming innocence when its your elected government that has been torturing, kidnapping, assassinating, extorting money, brutalising ordinary people. You do share the responsibility and the blame even if all you've done is keep your mouth shut.

However as always the easy option is to scream bloody murder at someone marginally related to the problem over whose behaviour you have no control (Musharraf), rather than the core of the problem which really is under your control (the Indian government) and that is no doubt what Indian politicians and the media will do.

When there is

- real rule of law across India including Kashmir and the northeast, meaning habeas corpus, accountability, communally unbiased and uncorruptible officials, rapid undelayed justice

- real press scrutiny of government actions

- public rejection of repressive tactics like martial law, house-to-house searches, shooting to kill at demonstrators, "interning" people for years without trial, killing people in "encounters", making people "disappear"

- public awareness and major public focus on eliminating communal bias from the Indian administration and society (ie. when no housing society can dare to exclude Muslims/Christians/ etc., when all the racists, which is to say about 90% of all people in government service, have been sacked, etc. etc.)

then there will be no serious terrorism problem. Right now of course there is a serious one and will no doubt continue to be.

But then I suppose one has to look at it in perspective. Today the terrorists only killed 50. Indian Railways' inability to keep its trains on the rails killed three times that. We have so many different kinds of incompetence to deal with in India, and the only competent people available are already working for Infosys.

libby position (indeed helps you get laid perhaps),

The Indian state deserves retaliation. India being a democracy, that means ordinary Indians deserve it too. There is no claiming innocence when its your elected government that has been torturing, kidnapping, assassinating, extorting money, brutalising ordinary people. You do share the responsibility and the blame even if all you've done is keep your mouth shut.

This is bait. Let it be guys.

We have so many different kinds of incompetence to deal with in India, and the only competent people available are already working for Infosys.

Oh thanks for complimenting my team i feel so quilty for causing india this problem.
You see the rest of us dont have any brains or the hearts. We are cowed into taking positions by our own politicos.

horrible news.

Fortunately, we know that America’s good friend Musharraf toils ceaselessly to restrain these eunuchs.

Bah, leave the eunuchs out of this.

PUNJABI BOY,

You left out mass rapes, rape of daughters and wives infront of parents and husbands, genital mutilation, use of citizens for vaccine and chemical weaponry research, utter subjugation of womenfolk so that the only way they experience sex is through rape (marital or otherwise), rampant sodomy, slavery, curfew, forced conscription, a complete disregard for property and intellectual rights, refusal to sign CTBT, KYOTO, power outages, mosquitos, lack of hygiene, refusal to use deodorants etc.

The discussions on here have taken on a particularly inane quality as of late.

Not to mention,

the treatment of widows, the prevalance of castism, feudalism, police brutality, dam building, inbreeding, improper sewage practices, anti-conversion attitudes, sati, defacating out in the open, rampant capitalist reforms that hurt the poor, illiteracy, rat worship, farmer suicides, and malnutrition.

I second comment #46.

Re: "Plus putting in a Congress man and taking out Saeed - who was fairly successful at reducing support for the hardliners - doesn't make India any safer."

Alybaba: this isn't a very fair comment; Saeed was only IN power because the Congress LET him, as his party had won fewer seats than the Congress in the 2002 elections (traditionally the CM would have been from the party winning more seats). Obviously the alienation of the people of the Valley played a big factor in this, as the Congress was eager for the so-called "healing touch"; but the whole deal was always that the parties would swap CMS after three years (meaning that the Congress CM would only get 2 of the 5 years). I am sensitive to the concerns of the people of the Valley, but let's not forget people from other regions of J&K: this is the first time ever that someone from outside the Valley has become CM os the state, and I don't see what's so wrong with that? I also don't see how or why this should irritate people in the Valley-- i.e. it's one thing is "their" guy was being removed through some chicanery (e.g. when the Indian government shamefully rigged the 1987 elections to prevent anti-National Conference forces from winning, helping convince large numbers of Kashmiris that they couldn't get a fair deal), but here Saeed became CM by virtue of the very opposite process: the pro-government (at the time, the NDA) forces LOST, and part of the deal was a CM-switch in 2005. So it isn't as if this is a surprise to anyone in Kashmir, everyone knew precisely when it would happen and why it would happen.

As for the main topic here, not sure what there is to discuss. One is appalled at this heinous act of course, and it is dismaying to see that the Indian government seems pretty clueless to prevent such attacks, which occur quite regularly.

I'd agree with Bong Breaker - I used to read through the posts here because they usually had some good points of view on offer. Sadly, the tripe above (coming, as it were, on such an occassion) isn't exactly readership material.

Muhajir,
In J&K the govt is elected for 6 years instead of 5 like in rest of India.

Good point, thanks Vick!

yes, umair, the power sharing in J&K was an alliance deal predetermined. in fact, at one point last week congress was thinking of delaying their deal.

I third comment #46.

"Who" is to blame for the attacks is quite obvious: Only militants from PoK can do these types of henious act's since left extremism is still confined to rural Bihar.

I see a series of unfortunate events here:

- During the earthquake, Indian army killed around 50 militants trying to enter India taking advantage of the calamity.

- Musharraf strategically requested India for relaxing boundry security in PoK.

- Now these attacks in Delhi.

- Militant groups are claiming responsibilty - as if there was any doubt otherwise.

Musharraf has failed (intentionally?) all across his efforts to curb terrorism in kashmir. It almost seems that he is in fact responsible.

My Condolences

My mother was telling me that on AsiaNet (a kerala channel beamed all over the world) a live broadcast of a malayali woman being informed via mobile phone, that her husband had just died in the bombings. She was sitting on her bed with the phone and as she hears the news, an expression of disbelief and sorrow overcame her face. She turned hysterical. All this was seen live by millions.

I was thinking then, that aren't moments like that very personal and sensitive? Does the media actually have the right to broadcast something so shocking?

It made my mother cry.

i fourth comment #46.

and, arvindh:

I'd agree with Bong Breaker - I used to read through the posts here because they usually had some good points of view on offer. Sadly, the tripe above (coming, as it were, on such an occassion) isn't exactly readership material.

it's the indo-pak related threads that bring out the trolls and the armchair kommandants.

the culture threads are much more worthwhile. see you over there.

peace

I was thinking then, that aren't moments like that very personal and sensitive? Does the media actually have the right to broadcast something so shocking?

You would think that the ISI and the Pakistani army would be more concerned with helping the earthquake victims (who apparently might die in large numbers if relief is not provided to them this winter) instead of using Kashmiri militant groups to instigate murderous attacks on Indians.

Pathetic! India should start striking back on these terrorists with a heavier hand to prevent these in the future!

http://www.desihub.com/blog/page/mihir/20051029#terrorists_strike_in_delhi

-mihir

Boundary security has yet to be relaxed - just an agreement in principle has been made. Stop thinking that the ones connected to this bombing have crossed over in the aftermath of the quake.

alybaba,

I would advise you read the following article from OutlookIndia.com: Jihad after the quake before countering some known facts.

The article was written before the terrorist attacks - october 24th.

They (terrorists) carried out two unsuccessful infiltration attempts immediately after the quake in order to benefit from the disorder caused by the natural disaster. Defence Minister, Pranab Mukherjee, stated, on October 16: "Militants have made about five infiltration attempts since the October 8 earthquake, including two on a single day. About 25-29 of them have been killed." With the SFs engaged in relief, rescue and rehabilitation efforts, the terrorists are scouting for soft targets and also attempting to push in as many infiltrators as possible.

And some more research while you are at it:

The blasts came a few days after the US State Department had issued an advisory to its citizens about the dangers of an Al Qaeda terrorist strike against American establishments/nationals in different cities of India.

From the Wall Street Journal today

India on the Frontline By BRAHMA CHELLANEY October 31, 2005; Page A17

The Indian capital has faced several major acts of terror since the 1980s, but the serial bombings targeting festival shoppers over the weekend were the deadliest yet, leaving at least 61 dead. Yet India is responding typically to the latest horror -- with brave words that can do little to hide its lack of both a coherent counter- terrorism strategy and the political will to go beyond mere reprobation.

The latest bombings -- crude in their indiscriminate targeting of civilians and sophisticated in their synchronization -- were carried out at the start of Diwali, the country's main festival holiday, to maximize the effect. Although an obscure underground Kashmir outfit has claimed responsibility, there is widespread suspicion that the attacks were masterminded by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based, al Qaeda-linked group labeled a terrorist organization by India and the United States. The attacks occurred on the same day that a New Delhi court had been scheduled to sentence six convicted Pakistani members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba and their Indian associates for involvement in a previous terrorist attack.
[Manmohan Singh]

The bombers have driven home a political message: India, despite its rising international profile, is powerless to stop terror attacks. By audaciously carrying out bombings right under the nose of the Indian government, the terrorists may also be seeking to rattle foreign investors and undermine India's booming economy. The bombings also have the potential to undercut the credibility of the bureaucrat-turned-prime minister, Manmohan Singh, and constrict his leeway in the ongoing peace process with Pakistan.

Mr. Singh is the latest in a succession of weak, aging prime ministers whose absence of decisive leadership over the years has resulted in the failure to formulate a prudent counterterror strategy backed by firm resolve. Increasingly, terrorism has been treated as a law-and-order issue requiring more policing. To regard terrorism as a law-and-order problem is to do what the terrorists want -- to sap your strength. No amount of security can stop terrorism if the nation is reluctant to go after terrorist cells and networks and those that harbor extremists.

The Indian and U.S. responses to terrorism are a study in contrast. No Americans have been killed by terrorists in the United States since 9/11 because the U.S. military has gone after terrorists overseas. India, in contrast, has suffered its biggest terrorist strikes since 9/11, including attacks on the national Parliament, the Kashmir legislature, the 17th-century Red Fort, three major Hindu temples and several military camps.

Every time India is tested by terror, it characteristically responds by talking tough but doing nothing. New methodology employed by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency's Office of Terrorism Analysis shows India has the dubious distinction of having the highest number of terrorist incidents.

India has become such a happy hunting ground for terrorists that several major acts of international terror have first been tried out against Indian targets before being replicated in Western democracies. They include attacks on symbols of state authority, midair bombing of a commercial jetliner and coordinated strikes on a city transportation system. In using India as a laboratory, the jihadists have been guided by the logic that if the world's largest democracy can be shaken, so can others.

For instance, the 1988 Pan Am 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, replicated the midair bombing over the Atlantic of an Air India commercial flight from Canada in 1985. The same Air India bombing technique was also used in the Libyan-orchestrated attack on a UTA jetliner in 1989, which blew up in midair over the Sahara.

The 1993 Bombay bombings, which targeted India's financial institutions and left hundreds dead, have served as a model act of mass terror to international jihadists. The Bombay bombings, according to Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee, were "eerily similar in modus operandi and targets to 9/11 in their synchronized, serial character and targeting of state and economic symbols."

Parallels have also emerged between the 1999 hijacking to Kandahar, Afghanistan, of Indian Airlines flight IC-814 and the 9/11 hijackings, including the similar use of box-cutters and the terrorists' knowledge of cockpit systems. Long before the London and Madrid bombings, terrorists had staged coordinated attacks on city trains and buses in India.

Transnational terrorists see India as an easy target because it imposes no costs on them and their sponsors. If any state strikes deals with terrorists, it not only promotes stepped-up terrorism against its own interests but also creates problems for other nations.

A classic case was India's ignominious surrender, on Dec. 31, 1999, to the demands of hijackers holding passengers aboard an Indian commercial jetliner at Kandahar in Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. In a surrender unparalleled in modern world history, Indian Foreign Minister Jaswant Singh personally chaperoned three jailed terrorists to freedom in a special aircraft. One of the freed terrorists, Ahmed Omar Sheik -- a British citizen of Pakistani descent -- went on to help finance the 9/11 attacks.

For India, the chickens dramatically came home to roost when evidence on the December 2001 attack on parliament revealed the involvement of one of the terrorists hand-delivered in Kandahar -- Masood Azhar, who had formed the Jaish-e-Muhammad group in Pakistan.

What India needs is a concerted, sustained campaign against the forces of terror. But what Prime Minister Singh has offered are only words to comfort the nation. If India fails its latest test, it will only be a matter of time before the terrorists strike again at a place and time of their choice.

Mr. Chellaney is professor of strategic studies at the privately funded Center for Policy Research in New Delhi.

I saw this on a blog

“MESSAGEBOARDS

How should Delhi tackle terrorism?28 message(s)

Will Sachin’s return lift the Indian team’s performance?128 message(s)

That Messageboard was from NDTV at around 5:40 PM, today! The stark contrast in the number of messages that the two topics have evoked should come as no surprise; but it definitely reflects the state of affairs in India. Or, does it?”

I do not know what to say. The full post can be seen at

http://clearway.blogspot.com/2005/10/indians-diwali-and-messageboard.html

Mridula

I saw your same comment on DesiPundit too, and i beg to differ.

This is a perfect example of where statistics can give a misleading picture. It could just be that more cricket enthusiasts are logging on and leaving messages, that those who are into current affairs and politics.

On the larger picture, I think the comments are devaluing the spirit that Manish was trying to bring out in this post.

arZan,

Statistics wouldnt be same elsewhere in the world... 9/11 wasnt overshadowed by baseball world series..

When a nation under attack and constant seige for the past 15 years does not reply in kind, is not able to articulate a devastating response, it sinks deeper and deeper into an abyss of its own making.

Most of the above responses like most of the continuing terror in India, are a direct product of India's inability to respond to Islamic terrorism. Had we responded the way Israelis usually do, I am sure it would have put an end to terror once and for all. We must admit we have failed.

About LOC, let me make one thing clear. There is such a thing called LOC and POK today because of Nehruvian imbecility. Our army could have finished the job but Nehru created the entire stalemate by running to the UN. We now have to see that these Islamists must not keep spreading by annexing more and more Indian lands. They already have a Pakistan, a land they made "Pak" by cleansing all the Hindus and Sikhs. They cannot be allowed now to drive away all the Hindus from Kashmir and annex it. Whatever land the Muslims required was conceded to them in 1947.

The most painful aspect about the inability to hit back is the heckling responses one gets to read on message boards. {as is the case here}. Alybaba do not be smug, otherwise you might really end up in a cave if we finally decide to do something about you guys over there.

I think Mridula is right. Today both Times of India and Rediff have headlines that dont reflect that the country just experienced a terrorist attack !!! Its not newsworthy anymore, it appears. I think if it were Christmas shoppers somewhere in US the newsworthy-ness would have been different.

I couldn't read all of the messages above, but from what I read, I surely wanted to say something.

1) I read some1 hinting it might be the Khalistanis.

2) I read some1 defending Musharraf, saying that he shouldn't be blamed and that the Pak army does not support the terror groups like Lashkar-whatever.

Yeah, it is pretty tragic what happened. I feel really bad for the family of the victims, they won't be able to celebrate Diwali with a smile for years now. But the hard truth is that attacks like these WILL happen every 3-4 years because the pests don't decrease. A LOT of them are killed by the armies but they multiply like rats. Unless countries like UK, India, US AND Pakistan (lets not forget there r many attacks inside of Pak too) unite and raid the bases in PoK/Afganistan, this won't stop.

Ermm, Half my message got deleted when it was posted. I'm new to blogs I don't know what I did Lol !!

Let me just add on.

About the Khalistanis, I don't think they had anythin to do there, that ideology is dying in India slowly, but yeah its increasing amongst Sikhs abroad ( UK,Canada ) Eitherway they wouldn't choose Diwali as the time, since 95% Sikhs celebrate Diwali.

About Musharraf, man that guy is a pretty strong dude, if he had the will to finish off the terror groups, he easily would. I just dont think he wants to. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt Musharraf the leader of Pak Army when they (and the Kashmiri Militants / Freedom Fighers (yea rite), invaded/attacked Kargil ?? Doesn't that show what Musharrraf feels regarding the whole situation really ? The whole peace process is just a sham due to International Pressure.... I havent seen 1 step the pak govt. took to dismantle the terror network...

guess what?
my blog was quoted on the washington post express today about my views on these vicious delhi bombings..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/express/

october 31st
page 33...

congratulations, chick pea. i did go to page 33.

This was a thread I really wanted to comment on, but was forced to take a hiatus because of the strong anti-war stance taken by some posters. Must say that I am not pro-war, but I believe in self-preservation.

The Pakistani poster Mr Alybaba gained a big fan following by expounding a fantastic theory about the existence of terrorism and by proposing another equally fantastic solution to the problem.

From the analysis of the blasts on BBC, it seems that they were homemade devices - made inside India, not smuggled over the LOC or anything.

The explosive devices were IEDs, far from home made. Home made devices are usually made from fertilizers etc. These devices can not be made by your garden variety miscreants. You need money, technical support and extensive training. Most of all, you need big and strong balls to handle such stuff.

1. you act as if Mushie is the puppetmaster to all these groups, and just waiting to strike at India whenever he gets a chance.

2. Its really very simple. Majority of the population is rural.

The argument goes like this - Pakistan is feudal, hence could not install democracy. Therefore Mushy is really powerless.

Astounding how people do not see any fallacy in this logic. Now, there can be two possibilites:

a) Mushy is really powerless and the feudal lords hold all the power. This discredits point #1.

b) Mushy is really strong and powerful. Then the point about Pakistan not able to overcome the feudal lords to install democracy (#2) does not hold water.

See?

The truth of the matter is Pakistan has always been and will remain for the foreseeable future a military dictatorship. In this situation people like Mr AlyBaba, who have connections with the Prez and military will continue to exploit the country. By no means are they going to admit that the situation can be changed, which threatens their very existence. The elite in Pakistan enjoy a very fine life. Their kids often study at expensive British and US schools. They really want to maintain the status quo.

I'd just declare the LOC the official border

Sure. Assume that we agree to that. Does that really change anything? You will continue to claim that it is not really your fault that Pakistan is not a democracy. Feudal lords are to blame. Then again, after every terrorist attact you will alternate between "Mushy is a puppet" and "Mushy da great friend of my Papa".

Like Marcellus Wallace said - "Fuck Pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps"

Does he look like a bitch?!
Then why you trying to fu** him like a bitch, Brett?

The problem is, a lot of misguided desis are acting like a bitch, so collectively us Indians have no choice but to bend over and get it in our a**.

Indians and Pakistanis have nothing in common. Pakistan is a banana-repository, monument to Arab conquest, whilst India is the part of the old East that still survives (Tibet and Buddhist China are dead) Either will outlive the other. Co-existence is impossible

Genghiz Khan

Father of Pakistan

Argus, Interesting points there... except us bending over and getting in the ass lol

You're right, Pakistan will always go back to dictatorship, the moment the ruler gets serious about dismantling the terror network, the brainwashed rural people (majority) will take it as an attack on Islam and the ruler will be overthrown. I don't think Musharraf wants to do it anyway.. Example.. The Pakistanis asked the Indians for aircrafts to help in the relief efforts to the quake victims... the Indians agreed.. but the Pakistanis had a very weird demand, they wanted the planes..without the pilot.. How can India give its Air Force planes without Indian pilots to a country directly/indirectly responsibly for terror attacks in India and a country with whom they've fought 3 wars? Ofcourse, they said NO. Isn't it pretty clear why Pakistan didn't want Indian pilots to fly over PoK ? the terror camps !! oh sorry, I should call them the centers of their "freedom struggle". Anyway my point was that yeah, I don't really think Musharraf wants to clear the shit in his town.

The Pakistanis asked the Indians for aircrafts to help in the relief efforts to the quake victims... the Indians agreed.. but the Pakistanis had a very weird demand, they wanted the planes..without the pilot.. How can India give its Air Force planes without Indian pilots to a country directly/indirectly responsibly for terror attacks in India and a country with whom they've fought 3 wars?

Well look at what happened to an american chinook. It was the target of an RPG(rocket propelled grenade), and pakistanis engaged in RPG(role playing game).
Pakistani spin was it was dynamite to clear lanslide the pilot was mistaken.
Remember when the IA plane was hijacked mushsharaf himself had said that it was the work of indians to malign pakistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4397586.stm

Looks like it was LeT Police claims to have arrested a "Key Suspect" as per this report in today's ToI.

it is very bad