November 22, 2005
Hari Puttar: Attack of the ClonesFilm
Young’uns Shefali Chowdhury and Afshan Azad play Parvati and Padma Patil in the latest Harry Potter movie, the one with a goblet of masala pani. They’re Harry and Ron Weasley’s backup dates for Hogwarts’ Yule Ball:
Born in London in 1989 and brought up in a conservative Muslim family, Shefali is of Bangladeshi origin. Her parents had migrated to England from Sylhet, Bangladesh… She plays the role of Parvati Patil in the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire film. Prior to that her only recorded film appearance was an uncredited role in Kannathil Muthamittal in 2002.She plays Harry Potter’s Yule Ball date in Goblet of Fire. Daniel Radcliffe, who plays Harry Potter in the film… told This Is London: “I had a dance scene with Shefali. She was completely gorgeous.” [Link]
I counted ~8 British Asian kids in the movie, one with a long closeup. Somewhere between installments two and three, casting got the diversity clue.
This movie was lovely and lots of fun, it held my attention. Numbers three and four have both been much better than the slow, dumbed-down numbers one and two. Favorite scene: underwater with the merpeople. What is it about smart girls named Emma? The movie obliquely referred to 9/11, King Kong and being misquoted by the press. The over-the-top reporter reminded me of the purring, Eartha Kitt-like gossip maven, Kitty DaSouza, from Bombay Dreams.
Favorite design touches: the asymmetrically puckered Beauxbatons Academy caps and the recurring Russian dolls motif (trumpets inside trumpets, steamer trunks within steamer trunks). Least favorite bits: The skull/snake design was pretty cheesy. Ralph Fiennes’ Voldemort is hammy, not scary. The Bulgarian villains veer into camp, like Drago from Rocky IV. The visiting schools’ entrance routines were downright giggle-inducing.
Two desi girls joined at the hip, showing up in matching Indian clothes, getting annoyed if you don’t pay them enough attention, shooting glances like daggers and flouncing off with other guys? That’s not fantasy, that’s reality 
Related posts: Hari Puttar and the Order of the Phoenix, Psst… wanna buy a Harry Potter?, To me, “HP” will always mean Hewlett-Packard, Hari Puttar and the half-caste raja, Hari Puttar in Calcutta, The Lion, the Witch, the Wardrobe,…and some Indians
manish on November 22, 2005 08:28 PM in Film, Literature · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Somewhere between installments two and three, either J.K. Rowling or casting got the diversity clue.
The Patil twins have been in the books (and in the movies) since book 1. The twins were played by different desi actors in earlier movies.
Yeah, but movies one and two didn't have the profusion of black and East Asian kids of three and four.
They do, though the asian kids didn't get much screen time. They are there within the crowds in the Great Hall. The first movie also had a shot of a (presumably Sikh) desi kid with a top knot. The important black characters (Dean, Angelina, Lee) have some screen presence too.
JK Rowling presents a lot of non-white and racially mixed characters in her books and routinely depicts inter-racial (and inter-'blood') relationships. It's quite unwarranted to say that she needed a clue on diversity.
Was I dreaming or was there an Indian flag at the World Quidditch Championship?
Why must the desi and Asian characters always be wearing ethnic clothing all the time?
Not dreaming, Sonu, it was the first one they showed in that scene :)
yourbloodyvalentine, parvati and padma wear "ethnic clothes" in the books as well.
Why must the desi and Asian characters always be wearing ethnic clothing all the time?
Well, if they really are desi/Asian, then their clothing isn't really ethnic...
Yea, Voldy-boy was a little hammy, but I think we have to keep in mind the audience. I don't think she wants to scare them too much...
As for the entrance of the alternative schools - I think it was meant to be over-the-top...it was a frikkin' laugh riot. All-time favourite has to be the guy who plays Ron, though. Great stuff.
As for getting the Diversity Clue, that's definitely Casting's fault.
Mudbloods/Coloured People/Werewolves/Giants - Rowlings tried very hard (too hard?) to promote diversity and tolerance...
Yes, but aren't these characters supposed to be 2nd gen? Isn't it kind of unrealistic for them to constantly sport traditional desi/Asian garb? I smell Orientalism (esp. in the middle pic)...
if all the kids wear Hogwarts' uniforms, then other than dances and time in Hogsmeade, where do the Patil sisters ever wear their "ethnic clothes", and how does that qualify as "always"?
i dunno, but if i saw a desi munda rocking an achkan and dancing around like rishi sauve, that would be cool
"Why must the desi and Asian characters always be wearing ethnic clothing all the time?"
I hear ya. It actually irritated me that not only did they put them in fairly drab, cheap, uninteresting and downright boring, opposite matching (orange/pink) outfits but why the hell weren't they sexy the way they made Hermoine and the other girls out to be? And why were they backup? What the hell. I want my money back. Brown stand up!!
I like the way puberty is hitting these kids. It's almost comical. I wish Ron and Hermoine would get it on already. It's getting annoying now. How many more are there? 2???
The movie really dragged in between and it's definitely darker than the others. This is definitely not kids stuff.
On a side note to self:
Do not sit anywhere near teenagers next time at the movies. I was ready to bitchslap and pull my ghetto Newyorkness on these stupid pimpled freaks sitting behind me that were chattering on constantly like they were in homeroom! @^$76%^)&)%$
'Twas casting, then.
I think it's hot when a 2nd genner sports desi threads at a formal. Plus, they're much more interesting than the sober Western aesthetic. I once showed up at the San Francisco Black and White Ball in a black sherwani with gold trim. My date wore a silvery sari.
Because they were the backup dates.
Cuz they are Good Indian Girls ;)
"Because they were the backup dates."
Grrrrrr
Oh what's that?
Haven't seen the movie, but eeewww.... no little girl should be sexy. Good on the back-up girls - they can be sexy when they grow up.
Noted, but....
Question: Why don't guys were more desi threads at formals???
I meant "wear" not were....
It said that Choudhury comes from a conservative Muslim family, so maybe her parents didn't want their beti to dress as sexily as the other characters?
No style.
I, on the other hand, almost always rock the ethnic ;)
Ang- Guys barely wear desi threads at desi formals! (think uncles in suits at weddings)
Jane- I am equally dismayed by the portrayal of these girls, esp. in the UK where most desi girls don't have a rep of being prudish anymore.
Oh these aren't "little girls" if they show them lusting after boys, especially Potter. They are going thru puberty and noticing boys, a little curb appeal isn't a bad thing.
And by sexy I wasn't thinking "Pamela Andersen" sexy, just not blah.
On the topic of desi threads, my sherwani needs laundering.
That's generational though. First gen thinks Western = sophisticated. Second gen thinks desi threads = luscious.
I hope that's not a metaphor ;)
Desi threads are lucious especially cute desi boys in desi threads. Yumm Yumm gimme some.
Very broad strokes, Manish.
No :) I was about to type in: Does anyone know of any laundry place in Austin I can take it to? The shop across from school does not want to deal with it. I guess I'll just have to wait till its time to make my $1400 laundry trip back home.
Janeofalltrades, call me. I'm at 1-900-KURTABOY.
Okay, fine. I guess I wasn't as sophisticated and overt as the youngsters these days. But back in the days, when I was a teenager, 13 or 14, I wore like 3 shirts simultaneously. I have an embarassing photo of me with a thermal long-sleeve shirt, another t-shirt, and yet another soundgarden badmotorfinger shirt on top of that, and really baggy army pants and vans sneakers. Yes, laugh if you want, but the boys seemed to like it just fine - lol. They must have been suffering from vacous-brain syndrome (vbs) but whatever.
Yes, yes, boys, rock the desi threads! Anyone know a good place to get modern desi threads online? I just can't trust the aunties anymore.
Why must the desi and Asian characters always be wearing ethnic clothing all the time?
i thought that was a nice touch. having everyone wear the same kinda outfits would be boring. granted, the indian stuff was pretty drab, but heck, at least they tried. it could be taken in a positive light. cultural diversity has always been a major theme of the potter books. the ethnic clothing, be it indian or chinese or whatever was as attempt at exposing kids to diversity and helping them accept it. yes, that's important in this day and age. and kids can say "harry went out with that girl in that dress so it's pretty normal". it also sends a message to kids. you don't need to be ashamed of being different. embrace your culture yada yada.
i haven't seen the movie but i am generally thrilled when the subcontinent's sartorial splendor is on display in a positive manner. YBV - i think that if we were talking kimonos and hamboks, then orientalism might be a more fair accusation. but the sari and other traditional wear is alive and well, in the subcontinent and (as evidenced by the many preceeding comments) in the diaspora. i definitely hope that the sari, kameez, etc. will not go the the way of other traditional asian garb.
on another note, a friend of mine once attended a moroccan wedding. the bride changed into nine different outfits and was paraded in front of the assembled guests in each one. eight were moroccan / north african ensembles, one was a sari. my friend asked, 'why a sari?' and the response was, 'because we like it.' hellz, when it comes to the sari, what's not to like? pehaps the HP costume department saw it as such as well.
I see the positive aspects about exposing kids to diversity, but I worry that the ethnic dress just perpetuates the "perpetual foreigner" stereotype about Asians. Even though they're 2nd gen, they're still seen as "foreign".
Although a select few may choose to be different and rock desi threads, most 2nd genners still wear dresses and tuxes to prom.
birds have plumes. beige is the lion.
The cock's colored, not the hen.
I hope that IS a metaphor ;)
ladies love my snickers bar....
the rooster's strut
lasts for a day.
To go long
the wolf blends gray.
the bachelor wolf
will bide his time.
dons sherwani,
lands mate sublime.
JK Rowling is a good woman - seen her interviewed a few times and not only is she a Smiths and Morrisey obsessive fans, she knows all about the need to represent modern Britain in all its diversity - hence the desi kids and characters.
seen her interviewed a few times and not only is she a Smiths and Morrisey obsessive fans, she knows all about the need to represent modern Britain in all its diversity
just some perspective, 8% of britons are non-white (this includes mixed people). 4% are brown (asian as you say there). on the other hand, nearly half of the minority population lives in london! i point this out because i have recently because to see belly-aching if a non-white individual is not included in a representation of half of a dozen britons...but the statistics above deny that in terms of strict expectation. i think many people are conflating the numbers around london as the 'face of briton.' anyway, diversity is like arab honor, no one knows what good it does, but people will kill for it.
razib
Lord Have Mercy that was a hilarious post. Thanks for the lecture Professor Sahib.
I think commenters were talking about accurate representation of their ethnic background, or HOW they are presented when they are presented (qualitative), not how often they should be represented (quantitative).
Next, not exclusively limited to this thread: if a commenter feels a little sorrow over an issue, no matter how pressing (or not pressing) the issue, I don't think it's fair for another commenter to come in and say, "You're stupid for caring about this. This is a waste of time. Stop whining. If you think this bad, look at X, therefore this is not important" etc, etc. If you happen to think it's a waste of time, I really don't understand why there's a need to criticize those who want to discuss. Let 'em be! If it's important to that person, well maybe they have a reason (life experience, etc) for it, and far be it from me, to tell them they are wasting their time and should spend it elsewhere.
Yeah, yeah, I realize the irony in me telling others to quit complaining about complainers...
I'm there!! Be afraid, be very afraid....
Okay...with all due respect to all the observations above, I have a little to add.
1. Anyone who read the book would have remembered that the Patil twins were supposed to have worn 'ethnic' garb. So seeing them dressed as such wasn't something to be surprised about.
2. Most traditional indian garb is not 'sexy'. It is sensual. This is because of the ornate embroidery, the expensive fabric etc. In my opinion, the girls looked very good indeed.
3. Cho Chang's character had a very asian themed outfit as well. Her 'gown' had a quaint chinese collar, complete with the brocade buttons etc.
4. Neither of the girls, except Fleur looked sexy. Even Hermione's outfit was conservative.
I feel as if the people in charge of the costume did a great job. Every person's ethnicity was celebrated with traditional clothes. In fact, I felt sorry for Ron's robes! If anyone should complain, it should be him!
There are tons of places depending on your budget, a lot of the good stuff is high end. But frankly desi garb needs to be fitted and tailored to your body because of fabric and style and it's best to do it in person. Depending on where you are located I might be able to help. :-)
I think J.K. Rowling does a good job with it in the books because Parvati and Cho are fellow Hogwarts-students first, and their race/ethnicity is not mentioned, they are 2nd gen and accepted as being part of the school, part of the U.K. She doesn't I don't think have them dress up in ethnic clothes in the book, not that there is anything wrong with that, but I feel like her message is meant to be more like they are British too, and so I was surprised in the movie that they had them dress up in saris, etc and I don't know too many 14 year old 2nd generation kids who would feel comfortable wearing saris to a dance, maybe being a witch or being English makes it different. Even though to 2nd gen in college or older may be comfortable with wearing desi clothes to a dance, I don't think many 14 year olds would be so I didn't find it v. realistic. Plus I feel like J.K. Rowling is always trying to emphasize the similarities, not differences, in kind of a post-ethnic statement.
Jane, I agree, it should be fitted. There are sari places in town (I don't live in a heavily desi populaced city like Toronto, so not many), but they are kind of dated, so I was thinking of getting something from a ritzier place online and then having it professionally tailored. I'm open to stylists ideas, but basically I want a little black dress, but desi! I was thinking along the lines of black georgette, silver embroidery or edge, fairly simple and elegant. I love how girls look with the really extravagant pattern, but I don't think that would work for me.... to borrow from your name, call me plain jane.
Maybe I will email you with my email address so I don't detract from whatever discussion is going on here....
Remember: Rowling's world is hardly inclusive - the have so many discrimination issues (werewolves, elves, centaurs, half-giants, 'mudbloods' - but our ideas of ethnicity/race/color (Cho's, Lee's, Parvati's) are not a significant difference in the wizarding world.
Anyways, Shefali Chowdhury and Afshan Azad were adorable. Very pretty. And the movie was very fun. Not as good as Azbakan, but very close...
Yeah definitely drop me an email. I can definitely help you get in the right direction. I'm in NYC.
Azkaban was definitely better, but Goblet had its moments as well. Loved the dragon fight.
And for cryin' out loud - can't a girl just put a spell on a guy to make him ask her for the dance? Askmeoutos Rightonos!! It's a School of Magic, for Chris' sakes.
Unless of course, the girl wants the boy to be interested on his own...
M. Nam
A girl can give a boy a love potion (see Book VI), but as we learned they are dangerous things!
Hermie needs some Love Potion #9:
It smelled like turpentine, and looked like Indian ink.
I held my nose, I closed my eyes, I took a drink!
I didnt know if it was day or night.
I started kissing everything in sight.
Ang, hit me offline I think we can hook you up.
Thanks DD! It's nice to see a person in my age range designing desi clothes.
Thanks to Jane, too!
:)
Hey DD is that you in the pics ?
Loved the rangoli photo by the way -- the way all the lamps are glowing etc.
Don't know nathan about Harish Puttar but random sartorial musings...
Maybe the first generation aren't as neurotic as us to think every minor decision has to be analysed under some simplistic colonialism/enlightenment rubric.
The dozen or so simple-middleclass weddings in the motherland I have attended featured bride in the traditional red sari, groom in a simple dress shirt, slacks. The whole hand-embroidered sari/elaborate sherwanis are more a upper class thing. Male guests were all wearing half-sleeve mosquito shirts. Weddings are a rite of passage not a fashion show. Informal too, bride/groom do their march around the fire, no one's paying attention, hundereds of peoples just mingling/gossiping till it's time to hit the buffet. Your neighbor's brother's milkman shows up with his friends and no one's the wiser. I like this feature rather than the somber by-the-numbers American/desi-American affair with precise place settings/invites. Not to mention no untalented rugrats parading around like Meena Kumari
Also, any shlub can improve himself in a well-picked off-the-rack-suit. It's generally harder for a man to look good in a shewani/nice kurta if you don't have the right build. I would say the same thing for the sari vs the dress. That being said there is nothing more sublime than a raven-haired lovely in a sari, even when it doesn't come off.
I've always thought it curious that Indian politicians can't politically wear a suit. Evil Western design that it is. And don't tell me it's b/c the suit is impractical. It's hot in Africa and the Middle East, and I got a nehru jacket..it ain't made for comfort. Bit silly. Few cultures hold their politicians to such exacting standards. My main man, Manny Singh looks distinguished in that Nehru jacket but he can't rock a suit even if he feels like it. I'm sure he must have worn one at least once during his stint at Oxford. Even Mushy gives up his jungle fatigues once in a while when he wants to look natty. I blame Nehru and the Non-alignment non-strategy strategy.
Definitely agree that the Asian/ehtnic dresses were cheap/flimsy/unattractve. It's a wonder the poor actresses managed to look even "slightly" attractive in them. The middle pic definitely shows the oriental dress and hair to advantage compared to our desi garb - what fudge?
Loved the movie but definitely have a beef with their depiction of "good ol' Paki gals" (as all south asians in the UK are but clubbed together and lovingly called "Pakis")!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I say we MUTINYYYYYYYYYYYY
correction:
"what fudge" shld. be "what THE fudge?!"
Second gen males in the West -- Yes.
Second gen males back in India -- Not necessarily, although it depends on the individual. They're much less into it than those of us out here.
If it's important to that person, well maybe they have a reason (life experience, etc) for it, and far be it from me, to tell them they are wasting their time and should spend it elsewhere.
forest from the trees please!
anyway, i watch a lot of british stuff on NETFLIX, and sometimes i read reviews of documentaries and movies, and i've noticed a trend that reviewers (london based) are starting to complain A LOT about a lack of racial/ethnic diversity in casts, when they are only 3-6 people primarily. i think this is a mind-bot that media 'elites' are starting to repeat mindlessly like drones, 'must have diversity, must have diversity.' but, i also think it is prejudice, that is, london-based prejudice against the rest of the country! just like people in 'red america' express a conceit that they are the 'real america,' it seems to me that london based intellectuals forget that the VAST majority of britain is almost totally white. so, i'm getting pissed off at the belly-aching for diversity in some quarters. not necessarily in this case specifically, i'm all for browns in the movies (both of these girls are) as long as they don't go topless like that class half-pak non-A+ glass blower down below. i'm just saying, the 'must look like the nation' type rhetoric gets annoying, the USA is 30% non-white. britain is 8% non-white. but the rhetoric is converging from what i can tell.
Razib, I agree the glass blower lady isn't terribly attractive, but what is wrong with brown girls in general going topless in films as opposed to whites?
Yes, indeed.
Sherwanis are usually pretty structured.
There's actually a web site called desi threads which has desi clothes: www.desithreads.com
Hi, new here but came across this thread on google.
I was a little pissed of about the dresses as well. I have seen street kids wearing better laingas than that. Assuming they are second generation brits who can probably manufacture money with their magical skill, the poor/middle class girls excuse doesn't work here. They must have had a stupid, ignorant costume designer. You would think they would get someone good and do a little bit of research for a $300 million movie. Better looking girls wouldn't have hurt either. I am sure they could have dug up someone better in UK. Actually the girls aren't too bad, I think he ugly dress just kills them.
wow!!! Shefali is really hott. especially in the desi clothes. i can't wait to see her in other movies.
In Kannathil Muttamittal? WHERE?
Shefali Choudhary has played a brilliant role in the movie "Harry Potter and Goblet of Fire". They've done the job that Parvati of the previous sequel was lacking. Whatsoever she is a NRI Bangladeshi, she has maintained the Indian (Asian) culture on the screen also. She was looking more than gorgeous in the yuleball scene of the movie. In scene they were the most simple of all. And I've the motto also 'Simple Living And High Thinking'. Hope for best for Shefali and her carrier.
Krish
kirtitaye@yahoo.co.in
Quoting Kirti "Whatsoever she is a NRI Bangladeshi, she has maintained the Indian (Asian) culture on the screen also."
What is NRI Bangladeshi?
Some great new music at www.desihits.com
Some great new music at www.desihits.com
mm