okay
i want to torch this store.

seriously? who the fuck thought this would be an intelligent idea?

can you get more offensive?

manish, please please please tell me you said something?

But those penises are circumcised.... :(

Chill out allmixedup ..
You can do a pornographic Jesus next Durga Puja..
Why can't we be more relaxed about sexual expression ? What is so special about a garland of penises, as opposed to, say, a garland of human skulls (which, Kali adorns) ?

okay i want to torch this store.

Please don't even joke about that. Non-violent critique, please.

Shiva Shiva!

This is offensive. And I am not even a religion-hawk. Apart from the fact that this trivializes the faiths of a huge fraction of humans, this is syncretic exoticisation at its worst.

This is what crunchy-granola-chewing window-dressers at 'Beads of Paradise' probably think when they are not tweaking out on X to Buddha Bar-III :

"Yeah, let's add some Mayan symbology, a few Chakras for good measure and some Mughal miniatures of azaan being called from slender minarets. Everything these crazy Eastern people do is so..like....groovy. Let's throw in a vaginas too for good measure. Those Hindooos ... they'll worship any ole thing! I think I learnt that in college -- well probably I am projecting, since I was in a 420 haze all through college...but you know, ...like.. whatever."

*goddamn hippies!*

Where is this store?!?

Yeah, allmixedup, after you've done that, take your Sainik & RSS buddies & go torch some cinema depicting western 'decadence'. Then go and vandalize artists works cos if offends you and quite obviously, you know whats best for us all.

Damn hippies...

they could at least have added some yonis to those lingams.

re: ABC Home: I was there on Saturday and had a good look at the 'offensive' displays. Along with the Hindu and Buddhist iconography, I saw quite a number of crosses, I.N.R.I and all. Why didn't you post pics of those?

Also, ABC Home has suddenly redone exactly one window in its holiday display, the one treating a Ganesh statue like a bathroom decoration. Were there complaints? Is someone newly enlightened? Does someone at ABC (shock) read SM?

I bet there were complaints because I was one of those people that bitched about it and I made a whole bunch of people do so. I complained to the manager at the store who told me to contact the main office. I sent them a fax telling them that it's insulting enough that my gods (shit I don't even follow them) were Christmas (Pagan/Catholic) ornaments, it was insulting to see them as bathroom decor. Glad to see they changed it.

Now this whole phallus thing is irritating. Nothing like a blessed penis but could you spare us from sticking them around and on gods. I don't care who's gods they are. It's out of line, insulting and pathetic, fuck the first amendment.

Why can't we be more relaxed about sexual expression?

What I want to know is...WHERE ARE THE VAGINAS?! Where where where? Is there only room for penises in paradise? Hehehe, I can't stop laughing at the picture. So ridiculous.

Did you get any strange looks while taking all these nice pictures, Manish?

For all the commentators that feel this obeisance to the hindu religion should first go get that. I would be pissed if this were really something "bad". If you have a problem with phallic symbol on our Gods you should go torch every Shiv Linga everywhere. And while you are it protest and torch all ancient temples and religious texts that are "sexually concious".

The only "western decadence" that these self anointed Hindus have picked up is puritantical views, contrary to the openness that is the hallmark of our religion/way of life. Call me up when someone places shoe or something around a God - I'll join you. Until then, chill out and be proud of our heritage and religion that has always accepted sexuality in its glory.

While I agree with you, Linga, I sincerely doubt that that was the intent of the window dresser who did this display!

Disgusting........

As a follow up - I completely agree with janeofalltrades that it is insulting to use our Gods as Christmas tree ornaments or bathroom decor but objecting to phallic symbols is sophomoric when its what we worship all the time.

It's out of line, insulting and pathetic, fuck the first amendment.

uh. i am sure you were saying that rhetorically, but let's watch what we say! (note the irony) this has nothing to do with the 1st ammendmant. a private company is open to public pressure, we don't need to bring the 1st ammendment into this. the 1st comment, and to some extent this comment, reminds of the dumb-ass sikhs in britain who went rampage over that play earlier last year.

Along with the Hindu and Buddhist iconography, I saw quite a number of crosses, I.N.R.I and all. Why didn't you post pics of those?

There was exactly one cross on Nov. 6, and it's prominently posted in the photo album.

... objecting to phallic symbols is sophomoric when its what we worship all the time.

Shivalingas are stylized and somewhat abstract, they aren't literal carvings of phalluses.

Did you get any strange looks while taking all these nice pictures, Manish?

A bearded man named Sigmund was taking notes ;)

I thought I had seen Kali with a garland of penises (penii?) before, not just human heads. I know that the 50 skulls is standard, but I thought I had seen the lingams as well.

Ahhhhhdaflkadfj!

i didnt mean to start a tirade!

in order of appearance:

okay i want to torch this store.

Please don't even joke about that. Non-violent critique, please.

first, i'm obviously not being serious and i will refrain from 'joking' in the future.

second, gulab, my issue isn't necessarily against art. i'm all for free expression and art. but is there a line between art and just doing something because it's popular or you're trying to attract attention?

third, yest another desi:

Yeah, allmixedup, after you've done that, take your Sainik & RSS buddies & go torch some cinema depicting western 'decadence'. Then go and vandalize artists works cos if offends you and quite obviously, you know whats best for us all.

i would never actually vandalize anything i'm just obviously shooting my mouth off b/c i'm offended with the work. and please dont ever put me in the same lot with the RSS. and i dont speak for you or anyone else, just me. and if i saw that in person, then i'd walk into the store lodge my complaint and then probably never shop there again.

people are free to express themselves. and i'm expressing my disgust with this piece of 'art.'

It's a pretty stupid display, agreed, but would we have minded as much if it were a Shiva lingam adorned with little Ganesh statues? Things that make you go 'hmmmmmm'.....

Has anybody wondered how the hell they got hold of so many Hindu artifacts in the first place ?

Sigh... there is a fine line between appreciation and appropriation, and it has been crossed.

Check out those dildo-looking "lingams" - it's even written on the side, so it must be a lingam! How exotic! I, too, can own a wooden, circumsized penis statue for $48! Maybe they should check around a bit before labelling it as such. Wonder what's written on them?

But yeah, let's not talk about burning buildings down... that's a little fundamentalist. Let them sell their weird stuff, complain to management about the really offensive stuff, and laugh at them when we come over to visit and a penis-decorated Ganesh adorns the front hallway. And if you really want to piss THEM off in return, make some crucifix Christmas ornaments. Or chocolate crucifixes with raspberry filling. Yum. Fight kitsch with kitsch, not fire.

Um, there's a big difference between shiva lingams and dildos, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

Manish, I appreciate your going through all the trouble to take the photos--and you always take such good photos--but could you make the top pic a little smaller, or maybe could someone post something else? It always being there when I load up Sepia Mutiny is starting to freak me out a little. I mean, it's a little creepy.

Has anybody wondered how the hell they got hold of so many Hindu artifacts in the first place ?

Yeah, actually I was just thinking about that. But are they Hindu artifacts, or made on some commune in California, or manufactured in a Sri Lankan sweatshop? I would *love* to see the "Made In" tags on this stuff...

The penisgarland, however, around Ganesh is hardly a question of provenance - it's one of display and presentation, and responsibility falls solely on the person who put that particular display together. I'm not Hindu so I can't really be offended by it, but I am annoyed at the sexual exotification that happens so often by people who look like me when it comes to any culture where the dominant skin color is darker than the Italians. Hell, include the Italians in that.

Very Interesting article you might want to read

http://www.physics.iitm.ac.in/~suresh/articles/husain.html

Hinduism is protected and preserved by the common folk of this country. Poor people, rural women, live and breathe Hinduism in their everyday life. They nurture it, fight with it, and develop an ambient relationship with it. Common people use religion instinctively and intuitively, when they confront new forms of attack on theiir life-styles, values and life support systems. The latest challenge to them today is globaliszation and liberalisation, the impact of which is devastating on Hindu culture and traditions.

[Rest deleted by admin - NO INCITEMENTS TO VIOLENCE in this post. Not even ironically.]

1) i assumed that comment #1 was rhetorical too. but just as some here are offended (rightly from their grounds from what i can tell as an outsider) by this image, i am offended at even the implication that violence or legal sanction are the appropriate sanctions that must be meted out against blasphemy. the right to blaspheme is a sacred value that i cherish (again, the irony was intended).

2) i'm a little creeped out by the photo too

so instead of doing my reading on the resource conservation and recovery act...i've been sitting and thinking about why this image bothers me so much.

and i think i'm narrowing down concerns...
so far what i've got is:
1] it bugs me that people seem to equate hinduism [icons or whatever] and sexuality. and while sexuality plays a huge role in hindu culture and i'm not a prude... i'm turned off by the fact that it seems to be the one aspect of hinduism that is most often capitalized on in art.
2] i'm sort of beginning to see the humorous side of this

what bothers me is the hypocrisy. people regularly make fun of hinduism in ways which would be just as appropriate for idolatrous catholics convinced that the image of mary the mother of god is etched into an oak tree, or muslims who think that not eating during daylight hours but stuffing yourself like a pig overnight is somehow seemly and sanctified. if god can be 3 and 1 simultaneously, iz it that weird that he might manifest himself in elephantine form?

It's out of line, insulting and pathetic, fuck the first amendment.

uh. i am sure you were saying that rhetorically, but let's watch what we say! (note the irony) this has nothing to do with the 1st ammendmant. a private company is open to public pressure, we don't need to bring the 1st ammendment into this. the 1st comment, and to some extent this comment, reminds of the dumb-ass sikhs in britain who went rampage over that play earlier last year.

No I didn't mean that literally but I am insulted and I don't find it to be an artistic expression. There is a line of respect and decency the display crossed and I find it terribly crass. I'm certainly not the type to go on a rampage but I have been known to find cerebral ways of making things go my way, this is one of those issues I would effect if I could and generally we all could :-)

Definitely offensive - art is meant to push boundaries for sure, but this is ruddy rude.
Someone read tahat Ganeh's father Shiva as alingam is meant to portray male fecundity and this is what we get?
Bloody annoying.

Never been offended by hippies. I think they are harmless...

On a different note -- Hindu deity related -- what happened to that Chocolate Ganesh post? It seems to have magically disappeared.

'Twas a dupe.

Tacky and stupid beyond belief.

1. Dildoes are not Shivalingas. Speaking purely visually, Shivalinga forms do not look like literal penises (whether or not you believe they originate from the idea of a penis)
2. Shivalingas as symbols have more than a simple sexual connotation.
3. Someone who at best has read or heard that Shivalingas are representations of penises has thought it would be "subversive" or "taking the idea back to its roots" by stringing penises around Ganesha; but since his/her interpretation of the linga is so uninformed, the effect is like scrawling obscene graffiti on a sacred representation.

Discussions of whether people are "prudish" are not relevant - whether or not people reacting to this find sex to be shameful or whatever, we all know that the effect of introducing literal sexual imagery to almost anything is to render it unworthy of respect in most observers' eyes. When the thing which is so debased is an artifact/symbol of another culture, it transfers that disrespect to that culture.

Deepa

I think you make a good point in your last post.

The shrill cries of those who shout yoo-hoo! yeah! Sex! Why cant you damn Indians lighten up and be a free and crazy Indian like me! I like Dildo's on Ganesh statues! Woo hoo!

They're kind of missing the point.

Is anyone going to write them an email or drop them a letter? It may be more productive than just discussing this amongst ourselves. I'd imagine it'd be best if someone who had seen the store's display themselves wrote it. It may a case of simply making a polite complaint and they will remove the penii.

Really, it's pretty funny. Given the apotheosis of sexuality among the hippies (and hipsters), it's quite nice to be able to tell them to go suck on some elephant dick. Lit-rally

What is this obsession with making fun of Indian Deity’s for entertainment? This is the fourth or fifth such incident this year. Well let me think from the other side…”Why are so sensitive about such issues?”….stepping back to my side…”Because we are”

Okay, All_Mixed_Up, if you were indeed joking, I apololise for coming down a little hard on that comment of yours. And please dont stop cracking jokes on my account - good or bad ;)
Speaking of which, andrea, I'm not sure if your "Fight kitsch with kitsch" remark was a joke too. But if it wasnt, I'd have one or two things to say about that :)

What I'd really like to know is where is this magical 'line' that has been crossed? Who drew it?
What is "a little fundamentalist" and "not-so-fundamentalist"?
Is there any other real reply to that except "There just is a line you cant cross. So shut up!"?

(regardless of the fact that this doesnt appear to me to be any serious attempt at art, as much as a bunch of wannabe comedians trying to poke some fun.)

Is anyone going to write them an email or drop them a letter? It may be more productive than just discussing this amongst ourselves. I'd imagine it'd be best if someone who had seen the store's display themselves wrote it. It may a case of simply making a polite complaint and they will remove the penii.

I certainly will. Shit between complaining about this and whining about the Ganapati bappa in the bathroom decor I've officially turned into my mother!!!

Address for letters:

Beads of Paradise
16 E. 17th St.
New York, NY 10003-1951

Thanks, Manish.

i think it's pretty sacriligeous.. it's insulting, sickening, and really is pissing me off... call me an aunty, mother, whatever.. and i hate the title of this post... piss krishna? that itself is disgusting.

... i hate the title of this post... piss krishna? that itself is disgusting.

It's intended to be. Here's the reference.

reference schmeference.. still not sitting well my dear manish.. not well at all...

Exactly. As a description of the Ganesh-a-lingam, it's supposed to piss you off, chick pea.

manish: chick pea has turned into spicy chana masala... red, spicy, and hot as hell ;)....

gotta laugh.. gotta laugh.. gotta laugh...

If and when, I find out who these bastards are and where they are from, I'm going to photoshop them and their families with midget porn in the background, blow up the pictures and paste it outside their shops and homes (wherever that is). Anyone wanna join me?

What I want to know is...WHERE ARE THE VAGINAS?! Where where where? Is there only room for penises in paradise?

What

almost

I know this is pissing off a lot of you, but it it seems like the store's window designer (whatever that position is called) cluelessly thought they were being cute and humorous. I see no malicious intent on their part, it's just plain ignorant.

And that means we have an opportunity here -- to enlighten the Beads of Paradise people on exactly why the penis-mala is distasteful and offensive to anyone who is familiar with Hindu deities.

I'm going to photoshop them and their families with midget porn in the background

that's offensive to little people culture. they aren't simply there for you to degrade.

I find the draping of dildos over deities tasteless and dumb and maybe culturally dense. But it almost seems a little un-Hindu to find it blasphemous, insofar as I understand Hinduism to be a flexible religion, with no rigid scriptural rules, and no hard and fast lines of blasphemy. (Not that anyone here has called it blasphemous per se.)

But there's something of secondary interest to this window display, something that links it to the ABC display and even those silly Verizon Christmakwannakahmas ads. Namely: this is a Christmas window, with dominant motifs that are non-Christian. It seems like a theme this season: the multi-culturalization of Christmas (in tasteless ways, maybe, but still, it's interesting).

Hehe Gujudude, nice one!

Deepa in comment #38 summed it up preety good. IMO

But it almost seems a little un-Hindu to find it blasphemous

I didn't say blasphemous, but offensive.

Moreover blasphemy does apply - "flexible" means we can create new forms based on philosophical or devotional motivations, not that we are ok with random modifications or those with a disrespectful intent.

(Not that anyone here has called it blasphemous per se.)

oops, gotcha, arj.

love how you changed the word from mutiny to brown... brown to the bone, and offended by the damn shop keeper... ugh, this chana is masala mad

Deepa writes:>>Moreover blasphemy does apply - "flexible" means we can create new forms based on philosophical or devotional motivations, not that we are ok with random modifications or those with a disrespectful intent.

Hinduism is the only religion where there is no such thing as blasphemy. Yes, most forms that have withstood the millennia are those that Hindus created with philosophical and devotional intent, but there were many forms that were created (and continue to be created) with disrespectful intent. Just see MFHussain's paintings for a recent example.

But Hinduism is also the only religion where you have a right to disrespect - so let the ABC Home's and MFH's have their day. As they fade away from public eye and memory, their "creations" will fade as well.

M. Nam

Well spoken MoorNam. Things like these are too trivial for a "religion" as old as ours. I put the quotes around religion because Hinduism is above a religion. Raja Rammohan Roy defined Hinduism as a way of life. And this way of life has not only persisted but flourished for around 7000 years now.

I think the problem is the commercialization of it all, not necessarily blasphemy... and of course, the ignorance of those who mistake dildoes for lingams. You'd think people who claim to be all cross-cultural and tolerant would know a little more about what they've got on display.

Speaking of which, andrea, I'm not sure if your "Fight kitsch with kitsch" remark was a joke too. But if it wasnt, I'd have one or two things to say about that :)
I was pretty much joking. I would never say every offended person should go out and disrespect someone else's religion in response... plus, it's all been done before, and by the same team at that. (first link: search for "Sweet Jesus Chocolate").

way of life ? bullshit.
How is an average Hindu different from an average Christian/Muslim living in India, in the realm of spirituality ?

It is not a way of life, it is a religion, plain and simple, and comes with all the things that accompany a religion. It has holy books, holy places where people go and pray, fanatic religious leaders who entice the followers of the faith to kill, followers of the faith who kill.. what more do you need before you call it a religion ?

that's offensive to little people culture. they aren't simply there for you to degrade.

I did not mean it that way but big boo....frickin....hooo. They can always complain about it on their blogs. After all that is exactly what we are doing too.

If and when, I find out who these bastards are and where they are from, I'm going to photoshop them and their families with midget porn in the background, blow up the pictures and paste it outside their shops and homes (wherever that is). Anyone wanna join me?

There would certainly be a tort action law suit waiting for you, provided you are rich.

but there were many forms that were created (and continue to be created) with disrespectful intent. Just see MFHussain's paintings for a recent example.

Those paintings are not created as part of the religion.

But Hinduism is also the only religion where you have a right to disrespect

No, you don't have a right to disrespect, it's just that we don't kill you if you disrespect.

No, you don't have a right to disrespect, it's just that we don't kill you if you disrespect.

Everyone has the right to disrespect, but they must also be willing to face the consequences of said disrespect (loss of face, public humiliation, disrespect in return) and accept responsibilities for their actions/words (regardless of the right/wrong).

And Hindu fundamentalists, just like other fundamentalists do go around threatening, intimidating, and killing people when they feel 'disrespected'.

Blasphemy is a Judeo-Christian-Islamic concept, doesn't mean people don't feel there is something analogous to it in Hinduism. It's a very human concept with translations of these feelings of disrespect all over the place. All those times I've seen TV versions Ramayan and Mahabharat (I know, not the best sources), there always seems to be one Rushimuni or the other who decrees that they, or the Gods have been insulted, and the standard curse ensues.

Feeling insulted, relgiously, has more to do with a group mentality of true believers. It doesn't matter what the scriptures or books say, all that matters is the interpretation of the leader of these true believers for it to become true in that group's mind.

"Under the Banner of Heaven" by John Krakauer is a great read, even though it's about Mormon fundamentalism, the ideas of what true believers are willing to do to justify their beliefs via their own interpretations is universal.

Everyone has the right to disrespect, but they must also be willing to face the consequences of said disrespect (loss of face, public humiliation, disrespect in return) and accept responsibilities for their actions/words (regardless of the right/wrong).

Thank you, you put it better than I did. I was responding badly to the comment that people have a "right" to disrespect in Hinduism, which seems to imply that it's part of Hindu thought or something, as opposed to other religions where it's not part of the religion. Fact is everyone has a "right" to disrespect any religion, under the conditions you specify above.

How is this painting called Naked Sarasvati by M F Hussain and Naked Laxmi stomping on Ganesh Very artey I guess

And Hindu fundamentalists, just like other fundamentalists do go around threatening, intimidating, and killing people when they feel 'disrespected'.

Blasphemy is a Judeo-Christian-Islamic concept, doesn't mean people don't feel there is something analogous to it in Hinduism. It's a very human concept with translations of these feelings of disrespect all over the place.

I'd just like to note here (not an attack on you, GujuDude) that both "blasphemy" and "fundamentalism" are Abrahamic concepts, technically (after all, both concepts depend upon the belief in one absolute doctrine) - yet, while people don't stint in extending "fundamentalism" to Hindus, they resist extending "blasphemy" to Hinduism. If one is extensible, I think the other is as well - for the reason that GujuDude states above:

It's a very human concept with translations of these feelings of disrespect all over the place.

As long as I'm at it, I might as well reiterate that to me the real point of outrage here is not:

*Are our religion/beliefs/deities truly affected by frivolous uses?

*Does our outrage indicate intolerance/fundamentalism/prudishness?

but rather that application of sexual imagery to any concept tends to render that concept a joke, and when members of a majority culture thus debase a popular symbol of a minority culture, that debasement accordingly transfers to that culture and those who are perceived to be of that culture. Then you have to wonder about the motivations of the people who perpetrated the debasement. Whether those motivations consciously exist, the effect is undeniable.

Anyone who is perceived to be Hindu, that is, anyone who is brown, is affected by the attitude of disrespect to Hindu culture which is thus perpetuated.

It's more a question of power than of religion.

Many people mention they were "offended" or they found it "offensive." My question is, why do you think people have a right not to be offended? Offense is only in the mind; it is in how someone interprets things. Why should one be responsible to ensure that someone else doesn't choose to interpret their statements or actions negatively?

I worry about things that affect me that actually harm me and that I cannot control such as when someone steals from me or when someone causes me or someone else real physical harm. I can't be bothered to worry about people "offending me" because it diverts far too much of my mental energy away from doing positive things and being a positive person.

In elementary school most of us learned that if we were offended by something then that something is exactly what the other kids would do. So most kids learn not to be offended. Why are adults so much less intelligent than elementary school children on being "offended?" Sheesh.

i dont see anything wrong . maybe someone needed some prayers awnsered to help concieve a child . it is common practice in japan .dont act like a bunch of christian extremists that go nuts over the display of the piss christ( christ on a cross in a jar of urine).

Nice!:)

Nice!:) Fuck all religions!