We desis are great at socializing ...... amongst our own kind. we have that working against us and then our nerdy image and our inability to schmooze.
Saying the right things at the right time is so important in corporate America.
That and learn to play golf.

i can totally see that. but our generation have many good schoomers (too good if you ask me). there's some people who like to smooze, and others who should concentrate on jobs where their output is the thing. some of can't literally schmoose to save their (our) lives

I think that FOB engineers are far more socially tone deaf than even their US counterparts. It's cringeworthy at times. I think it has to do with the IIT culture and the fact that the US is egalitarian enough that it doesn't provoke their deferential instincts the way that hierarchical India does.

I think that FOB engineers are far more socially tone deaf than even their US counterparts. It's cringeworthy at times. I think it has to do with the IIT culture...

Is that Indian culture, or is it just alpha nerd culture (e.g. Google, Microsoft, MIT)?

REINCARNATION - you know exactly what your talking about. being a 2nd gen, a schmoozer by nature, i banked on my indian smarts and coasted throughout out college. The revelation i came to at the end of college was that its all about who you know and how you handle yourself. Skillz mean shit. So i took my computer engineering degree and tossed it in the garbage.
Why would i want to slave away as a programmer, when i can schmooze and booze an angel to invest real money...

90% of CEOs are over 6'0.

What about golf?
It's a popular concept that the higher up you are the smaller your balls are.
Desis love playing tennis and cricket, and we get stuck at staff and mid-management.
For instance, the blue collar class prefer playing basketball. Staff loves bowling and baseball. Tennis is popular among mid-management. And CEOs play golf.
Now repeat after me, the higher up you are, the smaller your balls.

and for the record, illegal immigration does benefit americans...the top half of the income distribution that is, who can afford manicured lawns, the second home, eating out at good restaurants, etc. cheap labor makes the middle class rich. but we aren't going to be able to export low skilled americans in the near future. that's a reality that i tend to see ignored by many liberals. yes, emphasize who the winners are. but these 'americans who are willing to perform menial labor' aren't exactly drawing in the big bucks being CPAs and lawyers. they just drop out of the labor market.

90% of CEOs are over 6'0.

Blink says that figure is 58% (Fortune 500 CEOs over 6' tall), and 25% over 6'4".

Good, I still have a fighting chance.

why have an engineering degree when you can schmooze? for some its much less trouble putting in the work and coming home

reincarnation, you forgetting pinball or marbles???

golf is a necessity, all those country club sports are a necessity, from shuffleboard to croquet...i'm from CT..

and for the record, illegal immigration does benefit americans

Good, I still have a fighting chance.

i wouldn't count on it. 98% of CEOs in the Fortune 500 are white. (They have just 1 hispanic, Carlos Guttierrez at Kellog's)

Raju- i see where you are coming from, however, being a 2nd gen i can't stand seeing brainless dicks making millions of the backs of intelligent hard working(desi) engineers. With the number of desi's in the IT industry how come there isn't a proportional amount of upper management which is also desi?? It could be, i dont' know, but i doubt it.

Now repeat after me, the higher up you are, the smaller your balls.

Ping pong?

I played tabletennis for UoL, desis and most of East Asia are tabletennis masters...but it doesn't strike me as being 'high up the ladder'!

its all about who you know and how you handle yourself. Skillz mean shit.

I do think this is true, but I try not to underestimate people's intelligence -- you can be great at networking and dealing with office politics BS, but if you're discovered to be basically incompetent (lacking in real skills) you will be kicked to the curb quickly.

Then again, I also believe in the Peter Principle, which is basically the antithesis of what I just said. It's pretty much the same as the Dilbert Principle.

Ping pong?

I played tabletennis for UoL, desis and most of East Asia are tabletennis masters...but it doesn't strike me as being 'high up the ladder'!

Is that something most Americans even play? We are talking of an American workplace. Cultural differences, my friend.

Ah but you mentioned cricket Reincarnation, ner ner! Nah, it's a nice theory, I was just being cheeky. In the UK, it's somewhat different. Golf sits atop the pile in much the same way, but cricket and rugby are definitely regarded as 'classier' sports and hence remain distributed more widely amongst the top ranks. Lots of CEOs/MDs play squash. Football is the opiate of the working masses.

So, no rule of ball here. Ah well.

Bong, I was busting your chops too. Good one though.

Also, for those interested, these tips may help you when its time for your next work place evaluation.

Dude, Reinc, your logo is very goatse.

Manish, apparently you are not familiar with the dynasty sign, man!
Man, that goatse link or whatever. I'll have nightmares tonight.

Is that Indian culture, or is it just alpha nerd culture (e.g. Google, Microsoft, MIT)?

No, IIT grads are far more autistic than MIT grads.

Both might be arrogant, but MIT grads know when they're being incosiderate.

I think it has to do with the fact that most of these engineers come from very high status families where you can get away with treating servants (and parents) crappily. Whereas MIT grads are more middle class, and never had servants.

Then again, I'm overgeneralizing wildly.

With exception to the office of the CEO, I think South Asians are doing a wonderful job in movng up the corporate ladder. Numerous South Asians have penetrated the executive levels of large companies. We just don't hear about them as often because they are not as showy or attention grabbing as non-South Asian CEOs.

South Asian managers, generally speaking, are down to earth people :-)

An article about Vyomesh Joshi, the head of HP's printing division.

Joshi's ascent is remarkable given his humble roots, say current and former colleagues. When he first came to the United States in 1978 to study electrical engineering, he had to ask what a drinking fountain was, having never seen one in his native India. When he joined HP two years later, he was so respectful that he would bow slightly when passing managers in the hallway, recalled one of his early supervisors.

Even during the years when he was rising fast through HP's middle management ranks, some colleagues wondered just how high he could go given his genial management style.

I think it has to do with the fact that most of these engineers come from very high status families where you can get away with treating servants (and parents) crappily. Whereas MIT grads are more middle class, and never had servants.

Blink says that figure is 58% (Fortune 500 CEOs over 6' tall), and 25% over 6'4".

Based on that network, we will see a desi CEO in about... oh 200+ years, if we're lucky :)

South Asian managers, generally speaking, are down to earth people :-)

Whoa, that's a huge generalisation. Some are, a hell of a lot are not. In my experience female desi managers are significantly less arrogant than the guys, who fall prey to the ego-tripping power-corrupts dynamic far too often.

Of course it does vary from industry to industry; some professions are more ego-driven than others.

Huh, high-status families? IITs??? Dude, that's seriously inaccurate.

Actually, during my days at IIT (1996-2000), there were a few students who did come from high-status families: rich, parents who were well-educated/well-traveled etc. These kids were the few who were acquainted with American ways of socializing, the rest of us were the typical IIT type :)

Indian culture is very deferential. You grow up with the idea of unquestioning obedience to parents/elders/teachers/boss etc. My dad still refuses to believe that when bosses in the US walk into their offices, nobody stands up and everyone addresses him by first name.

Again, this is changing immensely with the call-center generation. I bet you'll notice this in the US very soon.