i suggest you put it above the fold.

the contact info that is.

Jerry boy will be hearing from me.

Disgusting!

I suggest everyone write their respective Senators in support of Durbin's legislation. Not only is it a good idea on its own merits, but its best to hit these hatemongers where it hurts most.

Calling them up and giving them hell might not be a bad idea either.
customer service department toll free (800)645-9500

incredible. unbelievable. shocking.

interesting note: the journalist who broke the story -- his article has been picked up across trhe country -- is a desi brother. adam jadhav of the st. louis post dispatch. for all i know he may be lurking here. if so: much respect, brother.

the worst part of this is that these motherf*****s knew EXACTLY what they were doing. between the neanderthal majority of their client base and the publicity now generated by the shock value, they're achieving exaclty what they wanted. it's the whole "don't ask permission, ask forgiveness" mentality.

man, y'all got me steamed up.

Just wrote an email to Kessler demanding an apology and retraction. Thanks for alerting us to this!

We have some anti-political correctness folks commenting on this blog. I would like to hear their take on this.

These bast#$ds should be sued for "wrongful death" ... yeah thats right.... Just to show them that we are serious !!! Its these type of hateful stereotype spreaders, who have indirectly caused the taking of innocent lives of Sikhs in America. This kind of shit gets innocent people KILLED. There must be some accounting.

We have some anti-political correctness folks commenting on this blog. I would like to hear their take on this.

C'mon folks speak up here's your chance to defend free speech. Back your anti PC rehtoric up and say something.

We have some anti-political correctness folks commenting on this blog. I would like to hear their take on this.

Do you have your own thoughts on the "anti-PC" nature of directly associating turbans with terrorism? Or perhaps you want to start a flame war. Thanks for elevating the discussion.

It is to deal with exactly this kind of shit that ACLU was created decades ago. Instead of wasting its time and energy on mostly frivolous lawsuits to appease its Leftist and anti-American zealots, I hope the ACLU redeems itself by taking SALDEF's side and making Kessler pay.

M. Nam

This is not about political correctness. This is about common, basic decency and responsible behavior. Propaganda like this has dangerous consequences. In fact even without propaganda like this there have been lethal attacks on people simply because they happen to be wearing a turban. This just shows a wanton disregard for the safety of the concerned communities. It's way more serious than tiptoeing around sentiments and hurt feelings and they may be well within their rights to slap criminal negligence charges against this company, I would think.

tom - eyes on the prize, brother, eyes on the prize. this is a threat to the desi and arab communities. we can all flame each other later.

It is to deal with exactly this kind of shit that ACLU was created decades ago.

Moornam: You have a profound misunderstanding of civil liberties in general and the role of ACLU in particular.
The ACLU has nothing to do with this kind of a problem.
Jerry Kessler is well within his legal right to invoke the imagery of turbans worn by Sikh/Muslim looking terrorists in his advertising. The ACLU protects speech and does not restrict speech.
The job of ACLU is not to restrict speech but promote more speech.
Yes, even odious speech like this needs protection against government intervention (if the government were to intervene)

Do you have your own thoughts on the "anti-PC" nature of directly associating turbans with terrorism? Or perhaps you want to start a flame war.

timepass, you have made your thoughts very clear on this, I want to hear from the other side.
It is possible that they have a different take on this, it is also possible that they are willing to make an exception in this case. I am curious. That is all.

Thanks for elevating the discussion.

This is shocking. Usually I let this kind of stuff fly, even make allowances for ignorance, even try to understand that sometimes it is just a bad kind of poor taste joke by people who dont know better. But this is straight up racism from a feckless bigot. So he better be ready to hear from England too - this tsuff is going international! And he doesnt know what he has let himself in for - this dude has made an enemy of Pattie Kaur!;-)

What an idiot. Based on this morons statement, if I were the Govt, I'd REALLY want to find out the side effects. I'm sure in the NHA representative's case whatever supplement he's been taking, the side effect is loss of brain function, stupidity, and eventual devolution. Kinda reminds me of the Super Mario Brothers movie with those mutated dudes who said,"GOOMBAH".

If O'Reilly/Michelle Malkin/conservative nuts were all for the boycott of Sears/Wal Mart for not putting up enough Christmas trees and to protect that oh so aggrieved minority, aka evangelical christians, I am sure they are going to be all over this and lead a boycott of Nature Plus products to protect an actual minority being conflated with terrorists here.

Jerry Kessler is well within his legal right to invoke the imagery of turbans worn by Sikh/Muslim looking terrorists in his advertising. The ACLU protects speech and does not restrict speech.

And what is their role when they have to balance free speech against irresponsible racist propaganda? I know hate speech is banned. This may not qualify as hate speech but since it can lead to hate crimes I think there may be a case in here.

tom - eyes on the prize, brother, eyes on the prize. this is a threat to the desi and arab communities. we can all flame each other later.

I agree with what you are saying and my eyes are on the prize. What I am trying to figure out is a consolidate opinion of browns (who read this blog) on this kind of bull.

Metaphorically speaking...(as Jim Cary) If we are throwing something at Mr. Kessler, I would like it be something solid and crystalline (granite) rather then amorphous (mud).

I know hate speech is banned.

What is hate speech and where is it banned ?

I know hate speech is banned

You know it wrong. Hate speech is free speech.

And what is their role when they have to balance free speech against irresponsible racist propaganda?

They cant do anything about it legally.

Btw, why the f*** do the conservatives want to run to the ACLU to protect their precious little civil liberties (that is when they are not tearing it down)
What happened to all the conservative 'civil libertarian groups'? I guess they dont really give a f*** about the civil liberties of workers, gays, immigrants and minorities.

FYI, SALDEF takes this position on the issue:

While we are aware of legitimate political differences in the debate on supplement regulation, the flyer produced by the NHA transgresses the boundaries of both legitimate and civil political discourse. The flyer serves as nothing more than hatemongering and uses stereotypes to support its point of view. We are disappointed that NHA would be engaged in the production of such a racist flyer that serves to perpetuate an increased environment of prejudice and hate against the Sikh, Muslim and Arab American communities. [Link]

I don't want legal action against him - this is free speech. I want political and economic pressure brought to bear until he apologises. The kind of glib association he made makes me a lot less safe walking down the street. An apology can't undo the damage, but it's a start.

I don't want legal action against him - this is free speech. I want political and economic pressure brought to bear until he apologises.

I am with you on this, Ennis. You are absolutely right. I think we should not stop till we make himm apologize.

Moornam and Divya,
The ACLU has nothing to do with this debate. As AMfD pointed out:

Jerry Kessler is well within his legal right to invoke the imagery of turbans worn by Sikh/Muslim looking terrorists in his advertising. The ACLU protects speech and does not restrict speech.

The ACLU isn't some anti-racist organization. Otherwise why would it have defended Rush Limbaugh? They protect mostly abuses of the first amendment. Bringing up the ACLU in this situation seems like a cheap shot that just clouds the real problem. What Kessler has done is wrong. It isn't up to the ACLU to police him but the consumer and perhaps the government agency that has oversight of his industry.

a consolidate opinion of browns

looks like it's happening. anytime you get divya and al mujahid conferring on tactics, you know something's going down!

Pattie Kaur ~ this probably isn't the type of sardar post you were hoping for =)

And what is their role when they have to balance free speech against irresponsible racist propaganda?

The ACLU has gone to bat for the KKK and Neo Nazi groups on the basis of free speech.

IF you want to hurt this guy, you hit them where it hurts. I'm sure there are several doctors and pharamcists who have say in what supplements get stocked in their supplies. If they make a stink, you'll hear douchebag mc'nutts shut up.

Pattie Kaur ~ this probably isn't the type of sardar post you were hoping for =)

She might design a tee-shirt with a print of Bush/Cheny/Rove/Rummy and Kessler all in pugs.

I just hope she will not construe this as an insult (I will never ever take a panga with a sardarni).

What a bunch of f'tards! Count another brother for boycotting "Nature's Plus" brand. How can they get away with this kind of blatant racism? Conflating a way of dressing with terrorism will only entrench the existing stereotypes and discrimination against browns in the US. All of us - Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, FoBs, ABCDs, ABC.5Ds etc etc - need to protest this in strongest possible terms.

The US society is under close scrutiny these days and such acts will continue to deteriorate its image around the world. Interestingly enough, one of the most positive national public opinions of the US as a society happens to be in India. Perhaps it's just as well that Indians get to see such acts of blatant racism pervasive in the US society and get a more balanced perspective. The reality of interacting with Americans is already beginning to make its impact : I can't wait to see the much-anticipated sitcom "The Call Center" on NDTV. Yes, the browns are watching you!

This is pure racist, straight and simple. Kessler should be forced to apologize and I don't know even if criminal charges can be brought against him.

Ennis, AMfd : Isn't hate speech illegal? Like for eg: someone says get rid of all these turban-wearing Sikh/Muslim terrorists. Isn't legally something wrong in here? Or are we restricted to political/economic pressurising to force him/NHA into an apology?

check out the video made by NHA and Mel Gibson

http://nha2004.com/press/cutfurther/mel%20gib_high.wmv

May be we should be banning movie stars who support this eveil organization...

These bast#$ds should be sued for "wrongful death" ... yeah thats right.... Just to show them that we are serious !!! Its these type of hateful stereotype spreaders, who have indirectly caused the taking of innocent lives of Sikhs in America. This kind of shit gets innocent people KILLED. There must be some accounting.

Could you please tell me how many Sikhs and Muslims have been hatefully killed in America in the aftermath of 9/11? Just imagine what would have happened if this were to happen in one of the homelands of most posters here. Appreciate America for what it is. That doesn't mean you shouldn't complain about this Turban issue. You should, but don't go about stupidly inflaming passions with false info.

Ennis, AMfd : Isn't hate speech illegal?

In the US, hate speech is protected by the first amendment. What is not protected are actions, such as conspiracy to commit a crime. This flyer, while odious, is nowhere near legally actionable.

Ann Coulter once said:

"We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." [Link]

This was horrifying but legal, just as when she said:

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building." [Link]

She is free to argue for forceful enslavement of people and to advocate for terrorism if she likes. It's a free country.

Isn't hate speech illegal?

No, free speech covers hate speech.

Like for eg: someone says get rid of all these turban-wearing Sikh/Muslim terrorists. Isn't legally something wrong in here?

He does not say that in the advertising.
Hypothetically, if he did utter those words, unless the words were by themselves the only trigger which caused the listener to immediately commit violence, speech cannot be restricted under the First Amendment.

Or are we restricted to political/economic pressurising to force him/NHA into an apology?
Short of amending the First Amendment, thats all we can do.

Could you please tell me how many Sikhs and Muslims have been hatefully killed in America in the aftermath of 9/11?

So...Sam, what would be an appropriate number of dead Sikhs and Muslims before I can start lighting up my passions ?

Just imagine what would have happened if this were to happen in one of the homelands of most posters here.

Riots and killing probably. Bad stuff.

Just imagine what would have happened if this were to happen in one of the homelands of most posters here.

Er, many of those on this blog happen to call the US of A as their homeland.

don't go about stupidly inflaming passions with false info.

You mean, like this, this, or this (pdf)?

Ennis,
I didnt see your post. Was not trying to confirm your answers :)

Sam,

This is an article from CNN from about a week after the terrorist attack. It includes some figures too.

The Sikh Coalition website gives a detailed breakdown of hate crimes against Sikhs post-9/11. You will note that a substantial number of them indicate mistaken identity, with the perpetrators assuming Sikhs are Muslims.

It is possible that they have a different take on this, it is also possible that they are willing to make an exception in this case. I am curious. That is all.

Thanks for elevating the discussion.

You are most welcome.

What's the "different take" on this? Are Kessler et al going to cloak themselves under "free speech" and expect that people will let them off easy? I think not. They've got the right to send out hateful messages, and we have the right to call them on it, protest, stop buying their products, anything short of accusing them of illegality.

It's an open and shut situation, so let's call it for what it is. If the image on the flier were a white man in blackface, an asian brother with a Fu Manchu mustache, or whatever, it would have been exactly the same as the racist imagery in the flier.

If you want to provoke discussion/debate on this, then make your intentions clear -- yours weren't to me.

OH POOP, not Nature's Plus that makes the only iron supplement that agrees with me and my iron-deficiency-anemic self! *muttergrumblemutter*

Well, Kessler and his PR department are the worst kind of asshats and don't deserve my money, my RBC count be damned.

No, free speech covers hate speech.

Okay, now I know. Shouldn't have expected anything more sensible I suppose. Btw, Abhi I did not suggest turning to the ACLU, an organization that I have mostly contempt for. I don't think boycotting the company's products will make a dent. It does help to make as much of a hue and cry as possible in any case. It also occured to me that for all we know these people may have done their research and found that such an ad will be received well (or neutrally) by many before they went ahead with it.

Btw, Abhi I did not suggest turning to the ACLU, an organization that I have mostly contempt for.

Don't think too harshly of them. If I wasn't such a huge fan of the ACLU and all that it stands for then I would have already censored many of your comments :)

Is there any online petition or something that we could sign to show our protest? I will also email my protest as directed in the post.

What's the "different take" on this?

It's an open and shut situation, so let's call it for what it is.

If you want to provoke discussion/debate on this, then make your intentions clear -- yours weren't to me.

1) perhaps we need to have the bill of rights read to everyone at least once a year? (if you are american, europeans & canadians have different attitudes about free speech, as they respect it, but don't worship it. this is one religion i'm willing to sign on to, FYI)

2) this is a no brainer in terms of getting public support.

3) the issue isn't the right to say what they said, it is that it is false and scurrilous.

4) perhaps some of the commenters on this weblog should contact the owners and request that they add an FAQ entry that if you don't espouse a particular political plank expect to be called out and insulted.

Desprate times means desprate measure, lets support Durbin!
How about a couple of thousand indians sending Durbin $100 that will be substantial effect on mr kesslers organization.
Couple this with a boycott and see what happens.
I'm sure its substantial.

perhaps someone should contact bobby jindal? he could talk to their lobbyists.

I contacted Senator Durbin's office to let him know that a campaign against Kessler was underway. This may encourage Durbin to strike back with greater conviction:
http://durbin.senate.gov/contact.cfm#contact

Just imagine what would have happened if this were to happen in one of the homelands of most posters here.

Same old bigoted line of thinking. Most posters here are Americans.

Hypothetically, if he did utter those words, unless the words were by themselves the only trigger which caused the listener to immediately commit violence, speech cannot be restricted under the First Amendment.

As people who know more about this have spoken, I will let go of my hope of seeing this thing in court. But will try all other avenues of protesting.

Abhi/AMFD:

I brought up ACLU only because it has a record of filing lawsuits against purpoted offensive speech, for eg, Christmas Decorations on public property by practicing Christians.

Sorry if it sounded like a cheap shot. As Siddharth said: Eyes on the prize. I don't want to sideline this debate further. Hence, I take my ACLU comment back. Admin - feel free to delete that message.

M. Nam

It is really sad that the picture of the turban appears to have been photo shopped from a picture of a Sikh - it is the common patiala style that must have been filched off the internet. What an insult and how crude and vulgar.

It also occured to me that for all we know these people may have done their research and found that such an ad will be received well (or neutrally) by many before they went ahead with it.

Actually, this organization seems to have not thought this through at all - it's not clear to me that they have a research staff, this seems to have been Kessler's own initiative.

I brought up ACLU only because it has a record of filing lawsuits against purpoted offensive speech, for eg, Christmas Decorations on public property by practicing Christians.

They never call such speech offensive, they simply call it unconstitutional. The same first amendment that allows freedom of speech also dictates that the government not endorse any religion.

Some people like turben-head/towel-head jokes, paki jokes, polish jokes, jew... some may think this flyer is not really that bad, they may find it funny.

Good luck finding someone who fits that description here on SM. Since you're so curious about Mr. D'Souza's views, why not contact him to join the discussion? Work those contacts Tom.

The rest of your post is just asinine... we're done here.

"I brought up ACLU only because it has a record of filing lawsuits against purpoted offensive speech, for eg, Christmas Decorations on public property by practicing Christians.'

MooNam,

That was on the grounds of "separation of state and religion" in the city hall. Not offensive anything and the case was thrown out.

ACLU takes first amendment and other aspects of constitution quite seriously.

Good call razib. Just one amendment.

4) perhaps some of the commenters on this weblog should contact the owners and request that they add an FAQ entry that if you don't espouse a particular political plank expect to be called out and insulted flogged.

Y'all, the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them. They're only here to get you to react, and that's a distraction from the main point of offense. Furthermore, this trollery lacks drollery; it's pretty obtuse and not clever at all.

Capish?

Oh MY:

Supplements are a legacy from God.

perhaps we need to have the bill of rights read to everyone at least once a year?

I support that.

4) perhaps some of the commenters on this weblog should contact the owners and request that they add an FAQ entry that if you don't espouse a particular political plank expect to be called out and insulted.

Not by name though :)

Good luck finding someone who fits that description here on SM. Since you're so curious about Mr. D'Souza's views, why not contact him to join the discussion? Work those contacts Tom.

Timepass, chill out.
There is a sizable market for Sardar jokes in India. Khuswant Singh ( a Sardar himself) has published quite a few jokes on Sardars. There are people who think this is funny. I have seen this crap happen first-hand, in middle school, by a teacher. So, there might be someone fitting "that description" lurking around.

The rest of your post is just asinine... we're done here.

the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them

Next.

I brought up ACLU only because it has a record of filing lawsuits against purpoted offensive speech, for eg, Christmas Decorations on public property by practicing Christians.

Conduct on public property can entangle the government and thus potentially violate the First Amendment prohibition on 'Establishment of religion'. First Amendment covers state action.

Jerry Kressler is a private actor and there is no state action here.

Supplements are a legacy from God.

Ok. NOW we can get the ACLU involved :)

There is a sizable market for Sardar jokes in India. Khuswant Singh ( a Sardar himself) has published quite a few jokes on Sardars. There are people who think this is funny. I have seen this crap happen first-hand, in middle school, by a teacher. So, there might be someone fitting "that description" lurking around.

Tom:

Isn't it clear that after 60 plus posts to this...that maybe you won't find someone fitting that description by now?

flogged!

now drink some coffee, chai or whatever else it takes for you to FOCUS on the issue here-- addressing bullshit like this is EXACTLY why the mutiny was born. no more supplements from these asshats, divine legacies be damned!

I have been reading comments carefully.

I think a lot of people have been misconstruing ACLU with something like Anti-Defamation League (ADL). ADL's focus is on Jewish causes but they do have friendly relationships with similar organizations for other ethnicities/ religions. ADL = combats, and keeps track of racism and defamation.

I am not sure if there is a similar "high profile" organization for Asians. I know they are some PACs that somewhat look after this stuff.

For Sikhs, there are a few organizations that fill that role, SALDEF (which is the organization that responded to this issue) is the oldest of the lot. It is a Sikh version of the ADL / NAACP that focusses solely on civil rights issues in the USA. It has extensive ties with other similar groups, and was around before 9/11.

I am not sure if there is a similar "high profile" organization for Asians.

There sure is: AALDEF.

bobby jindal's contact information.

no more supplements from these asshats

Ah, my fave swear-word. Very well deserved by the recipients in this case.

you guyz might think about having these posts as permlinks with explanations like you do with natural disaster victims. i know that this isn't as big of a deal as a natural disaster, but, you would probably have a disproportinate effect on the conversation cuz of the size and focus of the site. it would at least keep it high in the google rankings.

Manish,

Perhaps, AALDEF should be contacted. I bet if a high profile organization gets on the case, NHA will immediately back off.

See this for a List of groups that signed a letter objecting.

Ah, my fave swear-word. Very well deserved by the recipients in this case.

Then, ANNA and I are great minds (in the gutter, where else?) thinking alike on these people who very much deserve the moniker.

My new preferred one is f***tard. I love using it on Houston and I-10 drivers.

Desprate times means desprate measure, lets support Durbin!

In this case, I don't think boycotting Kessler and his company ought to mean supporting Durbin. Granted there's nothing ostensibly wrong with his proposed legislation, but in keeping with the crux of the matter, the boycott (and a damned vociferous one) is of prime importance here.

My new preferred one is f***tard. I love using it on Houston and I-10 drivers.

Ahem, another one of my fave's. I just used it in my first comment on this thread although in a slightly different form (f'tard) :-).

OK, now with the scheduled program. Yes, I agree that boycott is of prime importance. I don't think BJ will be interested in taking this up on behalf of desis, but no harm in trying. AALDF, after looking at their website, sounds like they are more concerned with the A-PAC Asians, not browns (but I may be wrong: don't know enough about them).

Gujjubhai,

From http://www.aaldef.org/about.html

AALDEF also has been in the forefront of the struggle to combat anti-Asian violence and police brutality. In the early 1990's, AALDEF conducted legal advocacy, which led to the passage of model state legislation that increased penalties for bias crimes in New Jersey. AALDEF has provided legal assistance and representation to hundreds of Asian Americans who were the victims of hate crimes and police brutality, and secured more than $1 million as a result of federal civil rights lawsuits filed on behalf of the victims. For example, we represented the family of Yong Xin Huang, the Chinese American teenager fatally shot in the back of the head by a NYPD officer, in their federal civil rights action against the New York Police Department in 1995. After 9-11, we actively documented and provided legal assistance for victims of violence directed against South Asians, Filipino Americans, and others who looked "Middle Eastern."

Gujjubhai, you are an American. You know the power of clout here for that matter any where else in the world.

Good luck finding someone who fits that description here on SM.

You see, the thing about a joke is, that it's a joke. Now some don't subscribe to that type of humor and it's ok. I have a tolerant streak for off the mark jokes, but you have to keep it in context.

This flyer isn't a joke, nor are the NHA rep's comments. And that's why they are so damaging, it doesn't make anyone laugh. The flyer is designed to attack, rile people up, and rally support in their community (in this case, supplement pill makers).

So, you'll find people who visit SM that don't mind Russell Peters type jokes (this website attracts a diverse crowd), just not statements and commentary that takes those jokes as gospel.

Kush,

Thanks for the info about AALDEF. BTW, for the records, I am not an American - not that there's anything wrong with it :-). Agree with your point about clout - however, I am just wondering how much leverage we have to get the AALDEF to take this up. They're pretty high-profile, so if they do take it up, that'll be awesome.

Good luck finding someone who fits that description here on SM.

You see, the thing about a joke is, that it's a joke. Now some don't subscribe to that type of humor and it's ok. I have a tolerant streak for off the mark jokes, but you have to keep it in context.

Tom, I'm going to say this just once. Kessler never uses the lighten up defense. He agrees (as I quoted in the post) that what he said was "not fair" and "in bad taste."

His defense is that it's OK to use strong images to rile people up and stir them for his cause. He never says that this is a joke and that people ought to see the humor. Furthermore, it's clearly not meant as a joke, it's meant as a direct political indictment. He's not kidding around, he's saying -- very directly -- that terrorists wear turbans.

If you read the post, especially Kessler's own words, it's pretty clear.

This is why I'm finding your persistence so puzzling. It's completely off topic. If we were discussing Apu it might have some relevance, but not here. Not at all.

the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them

Guilty.

In this case, I don't think boycotting Kessler and his company ought to mean supporting Durbin. Granted there's nothing ostensibly wrong with his proposed legislation, but in keeping with the crux of the matter, the boycott (and a damned vociferous one) is of prime importance here.

In this case, I don't think boycotting Kessler and his company ought to mean supporting Durbin. Granted there's nothing ostensibly wrong with his proposed legislation, but in keeping with the crux of the matter, the boycott (and a damned vociferous one) is of prime importance here.

I strongly disagree. The issue here is that ANY organization that wants cheap publicity can do this kind of nonsense and later retract their statements, "saying i was desperate and i agree it is in bad taste". If you want to hit them back, Financialy is the best way. The message is behave or suffer the results.

So, if Durbin's legislation were legitimately bad, would you support him just because he was wrongfully pulled into an unfortunate, tasteless and hurtful use of a racial stereotype? I don't see the logic here, GGK. The point here is not to blindly espouse Durbin's cause simply because he was slimed by being called a terrorist, but to pull the attention to the fact that people who wear turbans and are not terrorists were slimed by being pulled into a problem between the NHA and Durbin. In fact, even Durbin should be apologizing for the slight to peaceful turban-wearers everywhere.

Who cares about Durbin or his cause? Forget him. Turban Does Not Equal Terrorist is the important subtext here.

So, if Durbin's legislation were legitimately bad, would you support him just because he was wrongfully pulled into an unfortunate, tasteless and hurtful use of a racial stereotype? I don't see the logic here, GGK. The point here is not to blindly espouse Durbin's cause simply because he was slimed by being called a terrorist, but to pull the attention to the fact that people who wear turbans and are not terrorists were slimed by being pulled into a problem between the NHA and Durbin. In fact, even Durbin should be apologizing for the slight to peaceful turban-wearers everywhere.

Natural Organics of Melville, New York, and its owner, Gerald A. Kessler, have been charged by the Federal Trade Commission in an administrative complaint with making unsubstantiated claims that its dietary supplement tablets, "Pedi-Active A.D.D.," treat or mitigate Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). [Link]

Federal Trade Commision ftc has also gone after Kessler.
They reached a settlement othe the same pediactive ADD claim. [link]
one of the unusual provision in the settlement was

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that respondent Gerald A. Kessler, for a period of ten (10) years after the date of issuance of this order, shall notify the Commission of the discontinuance of his current business or employment, or of his affiliation with any new business or employment. The notice shall include respondent's new business address and telephone number and a description of the nature of the business or employment and his duties and responsibilities. All notices required by this Part shall be sent by certified mail to the Associate Director, Division of Enforcement, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C. 20580.

sorry manish, i misread ftc on your link as fda.
I have all the dd symptoms and standing on a desk with 4 pcs running is a contributing factor....

Is this the same gerald kessler?
This is a google cache for story the orginal is not there any more [link]

Suffolk says nonprofit Friends misspent $78,000
Suffolk audit claims nonprofit LI historic group misspent public money, much of it on perks for its president

The group's president's Gerald Kessler, did not want to comment on the audit findings, but Friends has previously denied it owed the county $1 million and cited the threat of the county going after that amount as the reason to dissolve.

Jay Singh,

It is really sad that the picture of the turban appears to have been photo shopped from a picture of a Sikh - it is the common patiala style that must have been filched off the internet. What an insult and how crude and vulgar.

I may be wrong, but isn't this photo actually of the "Sikh" guy that the BNP were using to support their anti-Muslim publicity campaign last year ?

No, it's a photo of Dick Durbin.

It's a poor tact to portray Durbin in a Turban, but I think many are overreacting. To me, it looks like a political cartoon. Of course, they're ignorant in their turban choice, but American culture is largely ignorant of the myriad differences among religions other than Christianity. Look at the Apu character in the Simpsons. Are we offended by that as well? Will we boycott Fox because of its promulgation of silly Indian stereotypes?

To me, this is a matter of free speech. This Kessler fellow is allowed to say what he wants. Durbin's no saint. Kessler's mission is true -- if Durbin wins, we might end up paying 25 dollars for a weak-ass bottle of "prescription" vitamin C. His own financial gain is part of it -- but maybe Durbin is out for financial gain too! the Pharmaceutical Industry would pay HUGE sums of money to destroy the vitamin industry. The pharmaceutical industry profits off sickness; the supplement industry profits by keeping people healthy.

if Kessler is fighting for our FREEDOM to take supplements, i'm not agreeing with his methods, but i will support that mission.

please, no arguments about 'side effects' of supplements. Give me a break. if you drink too much WATER you'll die. So should the gov't step in and start monitoring our water intake? Nonsense. Anybody with a brain scrutinizes the REAL dangerous side effects -- in pharmaceutical drugs.

Freedom of speech, freedom over what we can put in our bodies . . . i love the U.S.A.

Respectfully,

~ A

“They cannot take away our self-respect if we do not give it to them.” - Gandhi

Look at the Apu character in the Simpsons. Are we offended by that as well?

I detest the early Apu.

Of course, they're ignorant in their turban choice, but American culture is largely ignorant of the myriad differences among religions other than Christianity.

This ignorance has a body count.

To me, this is a matter of free speech.

Yes, and we have the right to speak back.

To me, this is a matter of free speech. This Kessler fellow is allowed to say what he wants.

Yup - and the groups objecting to what he said all concede that. However, just as he has free speech, we do too. If this had been an ad which used anti-black or anti-semetic stereotypes people would protest. In this case, he's using anti-Sikh and anti-arab racism to make his point.

What we're protesting isn't about vitamins at all - it's about his cavalier use of racist images.

It's a poor tact to portray Durbin in a Turban, but I think many are overreacting. To me, it looks like a political cartoon.

Kessler is making a very simple equation here, Turban=terrorism. That's factually incorrect, but also way out of bounds. And yes, we're protesting. If you'd ever had your safety threatened by people who make that same incorrect equation, you'd be concerned as well.

Look at the post - the groups are pretty clear in their objection.

Look at the Apu character in the Simpsons. Are we offended by that as well?

???? Again, read the post. Kessler wasn't poking sly fun here, he was saying that anybody in a turban is a terrorist. It's a completely different thing. It's like putting Durbin in blackface or in a Yarmulka to invoke racist stereotypes.

if you detest the portrayal of Indians on FOX, then you boycott the network . . . right?
Sorry, I can't do it. I like American Idol too much!

We do have the right to speak against this, or for it, and it's beautiful that we are doing so.

Do you have an actual body count on death-by-ignorance? I have a body count: JAMA showed that 106,000 people die each year in American hospitals from medication side effects. This is why I support supplements and our freedom to take them. America's reliance on pharmaceuticals may be the greatest ignorance of all.

Respectfully,

~ A

The pharmaceutical industry profits off sickness; the supplement industry profits by keeping people healthy.

You can support supplements, but still object to his political actions. Like I said, if he had put Durbin in blackface and said "Durbin is an ignorant n**** for his legislation" this would be odious no matter how wrong the legislation.

This is nothing like Apu or the Simpsons. It's bigotry pure and simple.

[As an aside, Durbin takes supplements himself, he just wants adverse reactions reported, so that problems like what happened with Ephedra get spotted earlier]

Ennis, points well taken. It's racist. There's a lot of racism out there. Many blacks, homosexuals, Indians, etc. have been killed by prejudice. That is a terrible scar upon humanity.

I'm just hung up on these pharmaceuticals, which are killing more people than all prejudice killings combined. Guru, you're right on the money about "food" supplements. But damn, most Americans don't shop that way! They should, but instead they eat crap! Supplements help compensate for the pitiful nutrition in the regular food supply.

If you think the supplement industry is murkier than Big Pharma then you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Ephedra was "linked" to 155 deaths over SEVERAL years; many users were using it improperly. Big Pharma kills 100,000 people per year! Big Pharma creates sickness so it can profit off "curing," when actually it's just perpetuating sickness. Believe me, Big Pharma's evil permeates all facets of American government and society -- including Congress.

Respectfully,

~ A

Ephedra? How can you seriously say ANY industry is murkier then big pharma??? Come on guy, thats ridiculous. Obviously, things like Ephedra are bad, but prescription drugs have alot worse things in them then Ephedra. Durbin wants to pass with bill so they will have a reason to extort money from the supplement industry. "Dont want us to ban your supplement, ok send a contribution to us".
Why not regulate artifical sweetners like aspartame? Its in almost everything people drink or eat these days, thats why! But its poison and should warn people, just like ephedra.
By the way, i read a print version of the article you posted on Kessler. It says nothing about him admitting he's a hatemonger and he even apologizes to anyone he has offended. Any reason for mis-quoting ennis?

I agree that suppliments by themselves are not all bad, but a lot of nonsense is out there about percieved benifits of certain suppliments.
(and what counts as suppliment a lot of them are essentialy chemicaly altered compounds, not natural uccoring stuff)
and looking at this kessler fellow in particular, It looks like he is a lying unethical salesman type
ADD is a problem for the parents, to play on parents emotions(particularly those who dont have the time
to research issues) is EVIL.
Then turban tactic used by kessler is wrong by all standards of decency.
I've read durbins stance and i find my self more on agreement with him.
In general i am not a fan of regulations b/c they lead to inefficencies nor am i a fan of liars.
This regulation will not effect me either way, b/c i am careful about what i put in my mouth, food, pharmaceuticals and suppliments and its a path i recomend to every one, but i know that a lot of people are swayed by whats on the label without finding out if it was studied or the underlying biological mechanisms are explained.
So these 2 observations have helped me make a stance on the issues.
Arjun the only one else that gave me the suppliment industry is better than big pharma talk was a gnc salesman
Later the fellow tried to sell me gnc mega vitamin over cheaper centrum saying its more effective.
i said did u check blood, long term overall health questionares, urine analysis, how can you make the claim its more effective.
what conributes a metric on effectiveness, the fellow had no answer.
Needless to say i did my window shopping and left.

By the way, i read a print version of the article you posted on Kessler. It says nothing about him admitting he's a hatemonger and he even apologizes to anyone he has offended.

Arjuna/Bin Bajwa, where's your link, scan or quote?

Any reason for mis-quoting ennis?

Any reason for omitting your source material, Arjuna? Ennis quoted what he had.

Btw, if you keep pretending to be multiple people in the same thread, you will be banned.

Bin Bajwa - you've repeated your accusation of mis-quoting twice, yet you haven't had the decency to click on the citation link at the end of each quote. Do so and you will see that each quote is fair and entirely taken from the source in question.

Arjuna - you're engaging in a means / end conflation. Even if you agree with his ends, these were odious means which he used and then defends. It was not necessary for him to use these means, in fact it detracts and distracts from his main point.

Manish, that was my post, not arjuna. I would love to give you a link to the article, but its PRINT. I'm not that knowledgable of the internet, but I've yet to figure out how to link a physical newspaper article to a web post.
I'm not meaning to jump on ennis (sorry about that) but when I first read those postings I was so mad at this kessler guy. It makes him really sound racist, which the flyer looks to me like it is, but everyone is asking for an apology. According to this article, which seems to be the same from the postings here, he does actually apologize and never says that he's a hatemonger.

Ephedra? How can you seriously say ANY industry is murkier then big pharma??? Come on guy, thats ridiculous. Obviously, things like Ephedra are bad, but prescription drugs have alot worse things in them then Ephedra. Durbin wants to pass with bill so they will have a reason to extort money from the supplement industry. "Dont want us to ban your supplement, ok send a contribution to us". Why not regulate artifical sweetners like aspartame? Its in almost everything people drink or eat these days, thats why! But its poison and should warn people, just like ephedra. By the way, i read a print version of the article you posted on Kessler. It says nothing about him admitting he's a hatemonger and he even apologizes to anyone he has offended. Any reason for mis-quoting ennis?

I wrote this SOB on his website and told him that as a physician in New York, I will certainly be boycotting his products. I would recommend everybody to write in - it takes 1 minute. Even if you just write, "I will be boycotting your products," it may be quite effective.

I have to wonder what the vitamin buyers he sent this flyer to thought about this garbage.

Most of the people who buy this stuff are and not really the sort of people dumb enough to appreciate this pathetic crap.

According to this article, which seems to be the same from the postings here, he does actually apologize and never says that he's a hatemonger.

I have NO IDEA who bin bajwa is but I'm grateful somebody's backing me! I told you; my source material is JAMA for the pharmaceutical side-effect deaths. The Ephedra stat I just got off the internet . . . i checked again and that was from the FDA. Everything else is just my opinion: Big Pharma is an evil entity that wants us to be sick.

I'm torn, don't take me wrong. I don't like Kessler's racist tactics. But I like that he's fighting Durbin. I just want to keep taking vitamins.

Respectfully,

~ A

P.S., ban me if you want, but denying my Freedom of Speech will make you a hypocrite.

Guru, here's an article about aspartame.
http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm

I agree with you that over consumption of anything can be harmful and people should be made aware of any dangers that a product may cause, but unfortunately, I feel like today we deal with politcal corruption in everything we do. Dont get me started on the Patriot Act LOL!

I have NO IDEA who bin bajwa is..

Sorry. Our software reports that you two have identical IP addresses, so either it's a Movable Type bug, you two live/work together, or this is an extremely convincing forgery of disparate writing styles.

P.S., ban me if you want, but denying my Freedom of Speech will make you a hypocrite.

Man, that is one half-baked idea of constitutional law. Try property rights. You have no right to put a bumper sticker (or comment spam) on my car, only on yours.

Man, that is one half-baked idea of constitutional law. Try property rights. You have no right to put a bumper sticker (or comment spam) on my car, only on yours.

Very well put.

Arjun
how many JAMA articles results of studies funded by suppliment industry?
most of studies are coming from research universities(which get their money for the most part from govt) and industry funded studies(big pharma)

Man, that is one half-baked idea of constitutional law. Try property rights. You have no right to put a bumper sticker (or comment spam) on my car, only on yours.

... can i put a sticker on a government vehicle. I will choose airforce 1...

When you try slapping a bumper sticker on Air Force One, can I film it? ;)

P.S., ban me if you want, but denying my Freedom of Speech will make you a hypocrite.

This is their private website, dude. You just dont go into anyone's home, take a dump on their couch and not expect to get kicked out. You seem to have a warped sense of Freedom of Speech.

All I'm sayin' is you can either believe in free and open discourse,
Or play mini-dictator and make silly megalomaniacal threats like "I'm gonna BAN you."
After all, opinions that don't match yours are invalid, or must be "spam" . . . right?
I'm hearing "This site is MINE! What I say goes! You're with us or against us!"
You sound like George Bush.
I think I'll take my discussion to a more evolved arena now.
Good day.

~ A

Whoops I POed Arjuna.

Or play mini-dictator and make silly megalomaniacal threats like "I'm gonna BAN you."

What part of comment spam (one user/multiple ID's in a single thread) do you not understand?

I think I'll take my discussion to a more evolved arena now.

Hope they use short words.

get out of the basement and stop spending all your time tracking IPs...

Unmoderated? Enjoy soc.culture.indian.

pshhht, some "apology".

i hope the huge number of e-mails Kessler and the NHA will receive start crashing their servers.

Pattie Kaur ~ this probably isn't the type of sardar post you were hoping for =)

ackk....pattie's been gone for awhile! lol! no.....i was hoping for more various nice sardar bits like that monty bit posted sometime back!

It appears the AMA or the pharmaceutical companys are not getting their cut (moneys)hence, they go after alternitive medicine, and of course our illustrous politicians,hence Sen. Durbin,too is not getting his cut, and is in the back pocket of the these lobbist, so he proposes a bill to stop that industry, that has been in business since before Jesus..

All of you people who have written, take a good look at what is really going one here..another gov. telling us what is good for us and what is not, control people, that is what this is all about..Wake up