I feel like I sent a tip in about this on the 19th of last month when I noticed it appear on AngryAsianMan

On a less whiny note... did anyone else notice the whole reference to 1949 being the year of the partition on the website? Or did I just interpret it incorrectly?

An epic romantic story of two people caught in the events that divided India and Pakistan in 1949 – the partition.

Yeah when I saw this the other day I couldn't for the life of me tell if Neve Campbell was supposed to be British, so I'm glad you know the answer Manish. It's a bad accent-a-thon.

Kristin's chirpy, but you gotsta give a gal a chance to prove her acting chops. I think she'll be OK (bar the accent), I just think the film will be typical Hollywood-in-the-tumultuous-rustic-overwhelming-period-India fare. I have no faith in this film being anything more than pure corn. Probably with some historical howlers chucked in for fun.

as a business move - the guy's got it down right - he'll make a profit in canada alone - the "canadian content" tax benefits and CBC play-time for the accountants, the educational element(!) for the moms, the canadian hottie I (neve) for the dads, the canadian hottie II (kreuk) for the teens, the weedy non-threateningest indic male for the feminists - he's got it down pat.
but gadar was better.. and so was veere zara

Hey, I'm just happy that they gave him more than a few days growth and a decent turban to put on his head. Then again, I'm just too squeamish to watch the hair cutting scene, I'll have to avert my gaze until they have him looking like a muslim.

hhmm...Jimi looks really good in this, but i just get the big green heebie jeebies with a side of the ooooo for crying out loud run far aways when there are way to chirpy anorexic supermodel type actresses stuck into anything. That and the plotline of a 38 year old and a 17 year old doing the big one. I'd need to see this for free somehow with one hell of a fast forward button. Gotta say though, jimmy looks btter as a singh than he does in real life. :)

mm...i'll give it a shot, but i really wanna see gadar. i agrew ith you manish, indeed - thank god they didn't cast something as bad jessica. this girl would have been even better, as per request from a friend for my mentioning.

What is all this Kristin-bitchin? She's not an "anorexic supermodel type actress" Pattie, she's 5'3" and has a figure like this. Looks like a nice homely girl, since when has chirpy been a foible?

And apparently Jimi Mistry is a "weedy male".

How encouraging that you've both condemned their performances before the film's even out.

Dude, she's WB, the home of mallrat cinema.

since when has chirpy been a foible?

Since the first time I met a woman, not a girl.

What is all this Kristin-bitchin? She's not an "anorexic supermodel type actress" Pattie, she's 5'3" and has a figure like this. Looks like a nice homely girl, since when has chirpy been a foible?

And apparently Jimi Mistry is a "weedy male".

How encouraging that you've both condemned their performances before the film's even out.

wait a minute here...don't get your feathers all a ruffle...sheesh. first off, i said nothing about him being a 'weedy male'. i don't knew where that came from. i have not condemned HIM, and here in USA there a are lot of girls with chirpy voices that are annoying. i am not condemning either of them. i am saying that the plotline of a 38 year old and a 17 year old is just bbrrhhhh. ok, that is completlet different than the actor who is playing a ROLE. however, i also mentioned that i'd give the film a view, anyway. i am giving it a chance, and i also agreed with manish that she is not as bad as jessica simpson. and not that it really matters to argue, i just wish they'd have more people who are not skinny as twigs in movies, to show that all people can be beautiful, because there is an emphasis being skinny things.

relax, it could turn ou to be be a very good movie, and their acting could turn out to be great, i;m not condemning anything, i'm just pointing out a few skeptical opinions. don't take things so seriously before you let soemone explain themselves.

since when has chirpy been a foible?

Since the first time I met a woman, not a girl.

Manish...! In the words of Paris, that was hott. ;)

At no point did I attribute the weedy male comment to you Pattie, hence why I said "you both" referring to you and dhaavak.

As for having less skinny people in films, well I doubt that'll ever change. Thin people are considered more attractive by most people, hence beautiful is synonymous with thin. That's life. I, for one, prefer looking at good-looking, slim people on the big screen, not tubby ones.

lmao.... manish, that was priceless.

let's put it this way - she seems like she could be a really cool person if she hadn't fallen for the squeaky tennybopper image, and i hope that one day, she'll shed the image and truly be a wonderful actress, instead of another example of WB's turning from a channel to a cult.

At no point did I attribute the weedy male comment to you Pattie, hence why I said "you both" referring to you and dhaavak.

As for having less skinny people in films, well I doubt that'll ever change. Thin people are considered more attractive by most people, hence beautiful is synonymous with thin. That's life. I, for one, prefer looking at good-looking, slim people on the big screen, not tubby ones.

fine, anyhoo....for me, when i watch soemeone on the big screen there's more than just a body involved. if daler mehndi was going to come out in a lead role, i'd be just as happy to see him, as i would amitabh or adrian brody, or god knows who else, as long as he conveyed his role well enough. we, as society have come to see things as skinny is beauty, heavier is ugly. truth is, the beauty does not come from the body shape. so, bless you if you do, but there are those of us who see it from a different angle, and we can say this too. and from the physical level, there are many lovely looking people of all weight classes. like the afformentioned chubby cheeked one, there are also some heavier female actresses in the industry (whose names i forget at the moment, but i've seen in adverts) who outshine the others, because they are ahppy with who they are isnide, and aren't worring about nips, tucks, or odd exercise rotuines to stick to some dumb standard put out by soceity and especially the entertainment industry.

Ok, that preview gave me chills.

-Did Sunny Deol's character cut his hair towards the end of Gadar? Did Gurdas Mann's character in Shaheed-e-Mohabbat?

-How big is this movie going to be? Is this independent or will it be shown in mainstream theatres?

-Kristin is HOT. I've had a crush on her pre-Smallville/Neutrogena when she was on some pre-teen show. Kristin as a punjaban .. even hotter!

Dudes - 4 posts related to Sikhs in one day? Might as well rename the blog SikhMutiny.

i have to say...judging from the preview, kristin's accent is awful! and looks like they pretty much showed the entire film's story in the preview. what's left to see!?

You know what I'm not so bothered by the accents though I'm a little insulted that they'd pick a non desi to play a desi role. What gives? I mean don't pick Aishwarya but for petes sake there are a billion people in India and the women are gorgeous. Could they not find a desi chick? Believe it or not Canadian hottie Lisa Ray would have been good in this role. But the trailer gave me chills, Mistry is a cutie (albeit being too waify) and I'd see it for the subject material and the western production.

i think sheez hot. mebee she'll fill out. i will check out the legion of decency's site what stuff she shows off....

" I'm a little insulted that they'd pick a non desi to play a desi role.'

Miss JoaT,

First of all, arts and movies are not some affirmative action thing. It is an industry to make money. You should only judge them by their acting capability and critically their role.

By defintion, an actor plays a role, and therefore, their real ethnicity, etc. should never be an issue. From www.answers.com, Definition: person who performs, entertains by role-playing. The key word is role-playing.

MOST IMP: Directors and producers pick the actors and actress they think best is for the role, and also they can afford.

By your token, only Indians should play Indians. Same ethnicities should play within their own ethnicities.

Then why did Al Pacino (an Italian American) played Cuban-immigrant gangster in Scarface. I can go on and on........

Maybe, only Kilngons should only play klingons.

God, how can Indian ever be in Shakespearen play or movie then?

shilpa shetty would have ben another great choice. she's cool.

Good lord KT. You are just oh so slightly exaggerating dramatic. By your logic Gwyneth Paltrow can play Imelda Marcos and Shabana Azmi can play Queen Elizabeth. It's all well and good to judge a actor by his/her acting and another to be a little out of context to ignore. Ethnic roles in general require someone that at least looks it. A Cuban doesn't look that different for all intents and purposes from an Italian so Pachino could pull it. From the trailer KK is fairly convincible with her accent/looks but it's still irritating to me. If wanting to not see Brad Pitt play Bruce Lee makes me racist so be it!

shilpa shetty would have ben another great choice. she's cool.

I met her in Bombay once and she was a complete biatch. Random thought =)

Mistry is a cutie

I met her in Bombay once and she was a complete biatch. Random thought =)

i have yet to meet her. but have seen her acting. oh, well, each to their own, yes?

If wanting to not see Brad Pitt play Bruce Lee makes me racist so be it!

woohho to that!

I didn't really find her accent that great in the trailer, either. Oh well. Kirtsin is pretty, but just doesn't seem right for the role. I'll live with it.

!!!! pickings must be slim south of the 49th || - duck -

Ouch...I don't know if there is such a thing as slim pickings in a city of 8 million. I thought he was adorable in The Guru and East is East.

Ouch...I don't know if there is such a thing as slim pickings in a city of 8 million. I thought he was adorable in The Guru and East is East.

he's cute in here!

of-ho dude cuts his hair? painful scene

I've got a better desi accent than her, which doesn't say much. I thought this was a bad idea when I heard this announced a year or two back. As I recall Kreuk's -asian- heritage was played up as part of the decision for her casting, which I personally found pretty offensive. She's an okay actress, and this looks to be an okay desisploitation movie.... which I'll of course go to see, if just for gorgeous Jimi Mistry.

Pliagarism is bad....
Not givingcredit for it is even worse...
But till our society matures film makers will have to tread on such formulas and not dare to experiment!

Total freakin' tangent time.

"

since when has chirpy been a foible?

Since the first time I met a woman, not a girl."

Do you guys mean chirpy as in voice register, or chirpy as in generally optimistic/perky, or chirpy as in smiley-even-when-not-appropriate? (No, I'm not going to go watch WB and try to infer it from that. I don't think I've ever watch it, and I don't intend to start now.)

In the last case, okay. I would say that it is a mark of maturity to know when not to smile, and be willing to show unhappiness without fear of seeming unattractive.

But the whole woman vs. girl thing--while a clever and entertaining bit of repartee--always fills me with a little foreboding, as does the boy vs. man thing. Y'all seem to have a visceral dislike of some essence of girliness vs. womanliness in Ms. Kreuk's repertoire, and I'm rather curious as to what, exactly, you're getting at. Is a woman with a high-pitched voice condemned to remian immature merely b/c of her vocal cords? Do real mature women not bubble or attempt to be positive?

I know that feminism wants to get away from the days when Aunt Alexandra told Scout to be a little sunbeam in her father's life. But I am slightly perturbed by the reactionary sense that anyone who is sunbeam-like is, therefore, not womanly. I thought we wanted more options, not just a different subset of the total realm of possibility.

Just me whistling in the dark. .

Manish,

The movie maybe based on true story. So, they maybe no plagarism. I do not know without really checking the whole movie.

If you read "Freedom at Midnight", a very similar true story is discussed that happened during Partition. The true story took a very tragic turn in the end, and even thousands of people in Pakistan mourned.

If I really digged deeper, I could give you the details, I am little busy. If somebody has read "Freedom at Midnight" or other serious partition historical books, they might attest me.

Do real mature women not bubble or attempt to be positive?

I'm a real, wizened old woman of 31 and I positively bubble all over people. No worries, Saheli-kins. I got your six. ;)

yeah, the accents were bad. some of the young kristen scenes made me feel creepy, though she matured and so made it cool i guess. none of the 'family movie guides' list partition yet, though there probably isn't nudity huh? google didn't turn up anything....

also, neve campbell's accent sucked too.

Do you guys mean chirpy as in voice register, or chirpy as in generally optimistic/perky, or chirpy as in smiley-even-when-not-appropriate? (No, I'm not going to go watch WB and try to infer it from that. I don't think I've ever watch it, and I don't intend to start now.)

In the last case, okay. I would say that it is a mark of maturity to know when not to smile, and be willing to show unhappiness without fear of seeming unattractive.

But the whole woman vs. girl thing--while a clever and entertaining bit of repartee--always fills me with a little foreboding, as does the boy vs. man thing. Y'all seem to have a visceral dislike of some essence of girliness vs. womanliness in Ms. Kreuk's repertoire, and I'm rather curious as to what, exactly, you're getting at. Is a woman with a high-pitched voice condemned to remian immature merely b/c of her vocal cords? Do real mature women not bubble or attempt to be positive?

there are chirpy as indeed in in voice register, as well as in i have no clue what 1+1 make type thing, which is just frightening. especially if the person really is fairly intellegent academically. that's what's scary. the whole i'm a teeny bopper omg look i'm on wb i'm too cool, i can show off because that's why i'm a genius with a really anoying voice type, and then there's people who are cheerful, fun, and just make you laugh and happy, and not want to puke - instead they somehow manage to brigthen up your crappiest days, without having to show off bits and bobs. believe it or not, there IS more to life than T&A. Or TP&A. Or whatever combination you prefer, as long as one gets the point. We have full time ditzballs and we have people who can play a diztball, and still be fun and cool. Like hema malini in sholay..she played a girl who seemed a chatterbox ditzball at first, but was a really cool person. and in real life, hema is an awesome person. as dharmendra. hopefully, he'll agree.

point is, there is a difference between sunhine innocent girlish thing and i've - been - sucking - one - many helium - so - i - seem - dumb - as - pud - don't - take - me - out in - public - unless - you - really - hate yourself kinda deal. Those people who seem like they know only one syllable words, and even that is limited.

and anna, you are the fun kind of bubbly. don't change.

the one other thing that gets me is that they could just like imply the more romantic acts, and not show them on the bed. that is not only soo played out, it's not interesting. plus, it goes against the whole modesty thing. that seemed to be forgotten. i mean, there are movies that don't have sex scenes in them that are really cool. sheesh.

Yes, Kush is right. I think it's become one of those mythic partition stories (there are others) that continues to define 1947 for much of the subcontinent, and it's definitely the root for both Gadar and apparently now Partition.

As the story goes, a Sikh farmer rescues a Muslim girl, they marry, have a kid. But as part of the efforts to reunite women separated from their families after partition, the girl is reunited with her family in Pakistan, and her Pakistani family will have nothing to do with her new husband and instead plan to marry her off again. So the Sikh cuts his hair, converts to Islam and goes to court in Pakistan, asking that he and his child be reunited with his wife. In the end, the court asks the girl to choose, and with her family in the courtroom she decides to divorce her husband and leave her child. So the griefstruck husband kills himself by jumping in front of a train, asking only that he be burried in his wife's village so he can be near her.

Very romantic, at least on the surface. Of course, if you think about it, the real tragedy is the lack of the girl's voice throughout. We don't really ever know what she wanted. Did she really love her husband in the first place? Did she really have a choice in that courtroom?

I'm 100% behind Kush, movies are a business. Kristin Kreuk is more bankable than a desi actress who would accept the same pay. The only moment of casting the wrong Asian that ticked me off was Jason Scott Lee as Mowgli - wtf? But seeing as I've played various different ethnicities in plays and whatnot, I think that as long as a person looks OK, that's all that matters. Kush's example of Shakespeare is valid, otherwise how would our Parminder have ended up in Twelfth Night? Whether you think KK looks like a Pakistani girl is open to debate. Shilpa Shetty opposite Jimi Mistry? Please, she's an old goat and would tower over him. Lisa Ray? Nah I think acting ability is a pre-requisite.

Thank you for putting things more succinctly than I could have Saheli, I also feel somewhat uneasy with the girl vs woman and boy vs man thing. Perhaps because I would be considered by most to be a boy and my girlfriend is a bona fide chirpy girl and hence unsuitable to play any role of pathos. Note: girlfriend, not womanfriend. This is the first time I've felt my age on SM.

I want to run a competition to find the Manish-penned blog post with the most hyperlinks. This is a contender. The prize is a Smallville DVD box set.

I think that as long as a person looks OK, that's all that matters

Make the pool of South Asian actors/actresses larger, and up their quality and name-brand value, and you won't have to deal with (as many) bad accents and people who "don't look quite right".

come on guys, quite a lot of desi dudes would be a little haraan (surprised) if a desi movie comes out with Soha Ali Khan (dreamgirl) and George Clooney as the desi. We'd at least wonder why a desi man was not available to play the part, no? Of course not all, but it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

On women versus girls....thats quite interesting Pattie. On a related not I always think the appeal for a man to "act like a man" is often an appeal to patriarchy. Or maybe its just that boys are often very immature. In fact I'd say even the chirpiest "girl" has more maturity than many men. Alot of guys can't handle putting the toilet seat down, god forbid they one day have to not only put the toilet seat down, but also care for a baby, or just deal with all the miscenlanous stuff females put up with day to day

Re: Kristin Kreuk not "looking Pakistani" -- There are Pakistani girls/women who do actually look like that, especially the Pathan type.

Sonia,

-Did Sunny Deol's character cut his hair towards the end of Gadar?

His hair was short throughout the film, although his beard (or lack of it) was fairly erratic, and none of it was necessarily related to the actual storyline.

Did Gurdas Mann's character in Shaheed-e-Mohabbat?

Gurdaas Mann also had short hair and a trimmed beard throughout the film. He was not Keshdhari in the strict sense.

-Kristin is HOT. I've had a crush on her pre-Smallville/Neutrogena when she was on some pre-teen show. Kristin as a punjaban .. even hotter!

*Jai does double-take*

This blog is getting wilder every day. First, entire threads devoted to booty (and rightly so), and now rampant girl-on-girl daydreams. Who knew ?

Pattie Kaur,

mm...i'll give it a shot, but i really wanna see gadar.

You should definitely see Shaheed-e-Mohabbat too; it's a far better film, excellent acting from Gurdaas Mann, and some beautiful music too (very romantic).

Re: The whole "chirpy/womanly voice & manner of speaking" argument:

Chirpy: Aishwarya Rai's voice is by far the number one example. Also Preity Zinta to a lesser extent.
Womanly: Sushmita Sen is the best example. This would also apply to Priyanka Chopra and Celina Jaitley, as anyone who has seen them being interviewed would confirm.

My own preferences lie in the second category, although that's probably obvious to SM regulars, based on previous discussions on the topic.

However, I wouldn't necessarily classify Kristin Kreuk's voice as "chirpy", at least not in Smallville; the definition would more accurately apply to the character of Chloe.

jai, you're quite right...I will have to see Shaheed-e-Mohabbat. I just added it to my listie.

On women versus girls....thats quite interesting Pattie. On a related not I always think the appeal for a man to "act like a man" is often an appeal to patriarchy. Or maybe its just that boys are often very immature. In fact I'd say even the chirpiest "girl" has more maturity than many men. Alot of guys can't handle putting the toilet seat down, god forbid they one day have to not only put the toilet seat down, but also care for a baby, or just deal with all the miscenlanous stuff females put up with day to day

isn't that interesting. i wonder where these folks live, because there are many of either sex who wouldn't know how to put down a toilet seat, or care for a baby. if you'd been to some parts of the inner city, one is just as bad as the other. point is, this is leading nowhere. one tries to explain to some people, and they just miss the point. it flies, continiously, right over their heads, so that being said...move on.

Re: chirpy voices.
I recalling some years back having heard a speech therapist on television claiming that, according to cross-cultural research, the pitch of women's speaking voices is correlated with the status that women are granted in their cultural environment (i.e., lower status = higher pitch). The theory is that women expect to be taken 'less seriously' in these societies, and therefore respond by not 'giving weight' to their own voices in a way that might seem to challenge male authority (and thereby avoiding conflict/sanctions with males). It seemed a rather logical explanation to me.

Perhaps because I would be considered by most to be a boy and my girlfriend is a bona fide chirpy girl and hence unsuitable to play any role of pathos. Note: girlfriend, not womanfriend. This is the first time I've felt my age on SM.

oh, dear, mised the mark again. we are taking two different views of chirpy. ok, short and blunt...

we have chirpy, as in fun, optomistic, yet not incredibly lacking of brains sounding, like anna - she's smart and bubbly at the same time. that's one kind of chirpy. then, you have perrenial little ditz who would stand there, staring all round her with no clue as to what's going on if you explained to her how to open the fridge. and, as much, i'm not saying that men should act like 'men' and women should act like 'women', i'm saying that people of either sex would be better off if they acted like they had more brains in their heads. there are chirpy guys who are just as bad. look at nick lichy or whatever his name is. and, as much, i'll add that it dosn't mean that one shall hate them as a person, but for crying out loud, they are annoying, and there should be more things taken into account when making films. that's why so many people watch the old movies. and shilpa shetty is 30. if that makes you an old goat, boy some of us better get our funerals prepared. and yes, acting ability, is indeed a pre-req. - BUT there are many facets to that, it's not just being able stand on a movie set, having people pay to oogle. or, at least, that's not how it used to be, and how it shouldn't be.

Pattie, my point was that its my opinion women have a lot of things to put up with and I'm not sure how many men are aware of that. Maybe a lot are, but sometimes you don't get that feeling. Sorry if in some way I offended you

and shilpa shetty is 30

Speaking of the statuesque, luxuriantly-haired Ms Shetty, she does normally have a stereotypically "chirpy" voice, although she certainly didn't in Phir Milenge (excellent film, by the way, and very restrained, mature, "serious" acting by Shilpa).

Pattie, my point was that its my opinion women have a lot of things to put up with and I'm not sure how many men are aware of that. Maybe a lot are, but sometimes you don't get that feeling. Sorry if in some way I offended you

thanks sahej, dear. nah...i got your point. lol. i was just trying to point out that it goes for both sexes. i do indeed get the feeling, believe you me, much of my family are the poster children for it, but i know many of my friends who cleaner than alot of the females in my family. also, if you've ever had the pleasure of going into a ladie's room in some of the raunchier parts of town, they are faarrr from clean. basically, it's upbringing and personal maturity, not sex that counts. but anyhoo, thanks for your apology, it is greatly accepted, and as much i hope i did not offend you either.

Speaking of the statuesque, luxuriantly-haired Ms Shetty, she does normally have a stereotypically "chirpy" voice, although she certainly didn't in Phir Milenge (excellent film, by the way, and very restrained, mature, "serious" acting by Shilpa).

jai, you're right she does! hers is enjoyable though. thanks for noting. i admit, i like shilpa. she's adorable and exhuberant from what i've seen. and i find her to have better acting than much of hollywood.

Pattie,

nope not offended in the least! i'll take your word on the bathrooms by the way!

Pattie,

nope not offended in the least! i'll take your word on the bathrooms by the way!

cool beans! lol....soemtimes i wish i were that lucky. ooohhh my eyes. lol!

Pattie,

if nothing else, this part of the thread is a real eye, or should it be "nose" opener...i always thought nothing could get worse than a truck stop men's room....arrrgh lets not go there either!

Pattie,

if nothing else, this part of the thread is a real eye, or should it be "nose" opener...i always thought nothing could get worse than a truck stop men's room....arrrgh lets not go there either!

omg! hahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! you know, there was a time when i felt the same! and it's i think a toss up for both eyes and nose, which ever part falls of the face first!

Not to beat a dead horse. . I realize this is entirely off track now, pace Manish, but. . .

don't you ever feel that adjectives/epithets like ditzy, airhead, perky (derogative perky), even bird-brained, silly, vapid and vacuous, are usually applied to women, and unfairly so? And bimbo and slutty both have connotations of lacking intelligence. It's true that for men we have idiot, dumbass, retard, and the like. . and it's also true that like bitch and slut these are all becoming unisex. . but I kind of feel like a stupid man can still be considered a real man, whereas women have so much more to prove before they can stop being considered to be girls.

Plus, I'm a little down on the whole concept of attributing character value to intelligence. To me the notable thing is not that Anna is bubbly and smart, but that Anna is bubbly and kind. Her bubbliness is not insincere, it's real. It's wonderful that she's smart---I love that she's smart, and it's a most relevant quality in blogging, obviously--but it's not what makes her a good and admirable person--nor what makes her a real woman.

Again, this is totally far afield. . . .it really has nothing to do with casting issues. .. something about the "since I met a woman, not a girl," just set me thinking about what that really means. Why do we value grown-upness? Well, one thing--the more relevant thing here--is that we prize sexual maturity and are justifiably upset/repulsed by sexual immaturity being set up as an object of desire. But I'm trying to tease apart the sexual appreciation and the total appreciation of a person here.

Intelligence, bubbliness, even kindness--these are all qualities children can have. Quite effortlessly, in fact. Which makes me think that it's the effort that makes it a matter of being adult. The best wedding toast I ever heard was, "The person you marry should be the partner who most helps you to become the best person you want to be." It's a little convoluted, but I think it touches on the mystery of woman vs. girl and man vs. boy in a way that I can respect. Growing up is about deliberately and constantly trying to be a good person. We don't expect small children to do that at all. We expect teenagers to do it a lot more. We consider someone an adult when they have internalized and made a habit of the process. Because this is such a frightfully important set of expectations, I'm a little bothered when I see the label for it--woman vs. girl, man vs. boy, adult vs. childish--attributed to something else entirely---whether it's physical curves, unchangable intelligence, or mood profile.

It seems what you all are really down on is insincerity, cheap smiles, and the state of being on positivity auto-pilot for the sake of seeming attractive. Chirpy just strikes me as ambigious enough a word for that phenomena as to be unhelpful and even counterproductive.

I recalling some years back having heard a speech therapist on television claiming that, according to cross-cultural research, the pitch of women's speaking voices is correlated with the status that women are granted in their cultural environment (i.e., lower status = higher pitch). The theory is that women expect to be taken 'less seriously' in these societies, and therefore respond by not 'giving weight' to their own voices in a way that might seem to challenge male authority (and thereby avoiding conflict/sanctions with males). It seemed a rather logical explanation to me.

I've heard this too, and it makes sense to me in the aggregate and if the data you are working with is the difference between any given woman's speaking pitch and her total range. Not taking into account someone's natural range, however, strikes me as somewhat ludicrous, and is, really, what bothers me here.

Sorry. . .I have no idea why a throw away line made me think about all this. :-)

Thanks Jai - I remembered that Sunny's pugh and beard mysteriously disappeared during the "running through the forest" love songs and then came back - but don't remember if he removed his pugh like the character in this movie.

Pattie - Agree with Jai on the Shaheed-e-Mohabbat recommendation - I was initially pissed off after wathching Gadar but enjoyed Shaheed-e-Mohabbat.

Growing up is about deliberately and constantly trying to be a good person. We don't expect small children to do that at all. We expect teenagers to do it a lot more. We consider someone an adult when they have internalized and made a habit of the process. Because this is such a frightfully important set of expectations

totally true

saheli,

you have brought up many good points. and basically, indeed, what you have said here - It seems what you all are really down on is insincerity, cheap smiles, and the state of being on positivity auto-pilot for the sake of seeming attractive. (or at least attarctive in a sexual founded nature) is the point.

thought i must also add note that yes, certain tags we give are indeed unfair in some tenses, yet in others remarkably polite as compared to their actions. and, also, some people do it to themselves , like this whole 'i'm sista bitch queen diva' or 'mad motha* beep* nigga'. anybody who has respect for nayone, be it themselves and/or others would never refer to others as bitches and niggas, because no matter how one tries to cover it up with verbonics, the words mean what they always have, and just because you replace an 'er' with an 'a', does not make such less offensive, yet people do it, and think it's great. which doesn't excuse it.

Plus, I'm a little down on the whole concept of attributing character value to intelligence. also, not everyone has character value attributed to intellegence, but for some people, that's all they've got. look at paris hilton. and it seems that some people want this to be, they want their character value to be attributed to their intellegence, which is very sad. these same people also prefer to be seen for how much they can show off physically.

Why do we value grown-upness? Well, one thing--the more relevant thing here--is that we prize sexual maturity and are justifiably upset/repulsed by sexual immaturity being set up as an object of desire. But I'm trying to tease apart the sexual appreciation and the total appreciation of a person here.

that's again the issue. people tend to see sexual apreciation and not total appreciation. or they confuse the two.

I recalling some years back having heard a speech therapist on television claiming that, according to cross-cultural research, the pitch of women's speaking voices is correlated with the status that women are granted in their cultural environment (i.e., lower status = higher pitch). The theory is that women expect to be taken 'less seriously' in these societies, and therefore respond by not 'giving weight' to their own voices in a way that might seem to challenge male authority (and thereby avoiding conflict/sanctions with males). It seemed a rather logical explanation to me.

the high pitch/class thing is another society contrived idea, and though there is some base to it, i know many people of all walks of life who have all sorts of pitches. but if you wnat to talk natural pitch, ove rthe past couple decades, there have been more and more nasily, high pithced people, men and women alike, who either sound stoned or like they've been sucking helium balloons. and it seems that these high pithces are not, in fact, natural ranges, but something that has been leanred and copied. take for instance when beavis and butthead were popular, how many guys immitated them, and still do. that was definately not a natural range going on there.

but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Thanks Jai - I remembered that Sunny's pugh and beard mysteriously disappeared during the "running through the forest" love songs and then came back - but don't remember if he removed his pugh like the character in this movie.

Pattie - Agree with Jai on the Shaheed-e-Mohabbat recommendation - I was initially pissed off after wathching Gadar but enjoyed Shaheed-e-Mohabbat.

lmao.....was there a good reason for his pugh and almsot dhari to a magic trick? that's just too wierd. what were they thinking, no one would notice? i will indeed have to watch shaheed.

Growing up is about deliberately and constantly trying to be a good person. We don't expect small children to do that at all. We expect teenagers to do it a lot more. We consider someone an adult when they have internalized and made a habit of the process. Because this is such a frightfully important set of expectations

hhmm..in my family, i was expected to constantly be a good person. it was highly emphasized. took me about two decades to realise there was good reason for it. though i gotta say, i think i was a better kid than i was teen for awhile. or at least preteen. i was a horrid preteen.

Yeah, I'm really just pondering, Pattie. I realize language is ambiguous. . .I just like to think about the more problematic moments of usage.

hhmm..in my family, i was expected to constantly be a good person.

I meant, like children too small to understand instructions. :-)

Yeah, I'm really just pondering, Pattie. I realize language is ambiguous. . .I just like to think about the more problematic moments of usage.

ok. cool.

I meant, like children too small to understand instructions. :-)

lol...well, then in that case, true, true. lol.

so KK is playing a desi girl (which i don't have a problem with)....speaking of bad casting...how about paris hilton playing mother teresa?

Well known Malayalam director T. Rajeevnath, scouting for a suitable actress to play the title role in his film on Nobel Peace laureate Mother Teresa, has sent feelers to American actress Paris Hilton.
"My agents in California have contacted Paris Hilton," Rajeevnath told IANS.
The director said he was impressed when he read a report sometime ago in which the hotel heiress said she had refused to pose nude in Playboy magazine and decided then to shortlist her. Link

how about paris hilton playing mother teresa?

Amusing! But it smacks of a PR stunt. It didn't say our modern-day Madonna was interested, only that the director contacted her agent (sending an unsolicited email qualifies).

But it smacks of a PR stunt.

exactly. although i did love this line....

The director said he was impressed when he read a report sometime ago in which the hotel heiress said she had refused to pose nude in Playboy magazine and decided then to shortlist her.

he would be even more impressed if he got his hands on 1 night in Paris.

anyway, just found the story mildly amusing.

Well known Malayalam director T. Rajeevnath, scouting for a suitable actress to play the title role in his film on Nobel Peace laureate Mother Teresa, has sent feelers to American actress Paris Hilton.
"My agents in California have contacted Paris Hilton," Rajeevnath told IANS.
The director said he was impressed when he read a report sometime ago in which the hotel heiress said she had refused to pose nude in Playboy magazine and decided then to shortlist her.

ooohhhhh man...ok, NOW i WILL go and pitch up. The only credit i can give her is for not posing naked. which is really surprising for her. i'd rather have KK play mother theresa. i have to wonder what people are smoking when they make up cast lists. i eman just because she hasn't posed nude does NOT mean she should be mother teresa. also says alot about society. there are lots of people who havn't posed for playboy, but have far more credit to be mother theresa. how about melissa joan hart, or something. ooohh mannn.