Good post.

Sigh. Yet another infomercial masquerading as journalism from Aziz Haniffa. About par for the course, unfortunately....

These questions just drive home the fact that Rediff-India Abroad’s target audience is first generation Indian Americans and Indians back in India, and that there is a large vacuum when it comes to reporters covering second generation interests.

This is true, they are catering to the audience who read Rediff-India Abroad and because Rediff-India Abroad is not Alhurra. They are a publicly traded entity REDF and accountable to their share holders (Rediff is an Indian company, its traded in USA as an ADR). I would be very interested in finding out how many second-gens know about Rediff-India Abroad and how many have read it even once.

Now HERE is an Indian American issue. Given the number of medical professionals in the Indian American community,
[…]
This is another one of my examples of a main-stream issue that should also be an issue that the South Asian community embraces as one of its own.

The desi (Indian) physicians who landed in USA in '60-75 have remained insular and exclusive group. I call them ingrates and selfish bunch of bastards. The institutions that trained them for the skills that bring them big-time moolah in USA are/were publicly subsidized Medical colleges of India and yet their affiliation (if at all) to anything Indian (outside their own family) is limited to Temple/Gurudwara/Church/Masque where they are trustees 'coz they made a $XXXXXXX donation. If Indian-American uncles were serious about Indian-American issues they could have had their own publication which would comment on stem-cell research and whether TGA is right in opining on ADHD drugs.
In that discussion with Baltimore Jewish leaders, the fact that `Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele' felt persuaded to make 'Holocaust' remark underscores the success of Jewish communities in pushing their agenda. I think Indian-Americans can learn a lot from the cohesive front that is presented by the Jews in almost any issue that is considered Jewish.

IMHO, Indian-American physicians and professionals should have an unequivocal voice in the strong stem-cell research debate, but it should not be embraced as one of its own AND I hope Dilip Paliath is not another Bobby Jindal :).

...should have an unequivocal voice in the strong stem-cell research debate...

As Governor, unlike Congressmen, my foreign trips are almost solely devoted to trade. Eighty-five to 90 percent of the discussions, and really the purpose of such trips are trade — bilateral relationships and trade between the state of Maryland and a particular country…

I hope Ehrlich was referring to bilateral trade relationship. The sentence gives the impression that according to Ehrlich, Governors conduct bilateral relationships and trade relationships with foreign nations. I know Republicans love state rights, but this would be unconstitutional.

A bit off topic, sorry....But [comment spam deleted by Admin.]

Only "a bit" off topic?

I guess Indian rock did not really appeal to most of the general population beyond a specific niche. Rock in the US is a natural evolution of several historical musical genres, there's no such historical path in India. For rock to succeed in India, it would have to be 'indianized' and actually get in touch with the population, aka Latin rock. They'd have to offer something that American rock bands would/could not. When I was attending college festivals in the late 90's rock bands performing would be expected to perform more Nirvana or Queen than their own originals.

I had a discussion with an American friend (who's a big-time rock aficianado) about this, and our theory was that India would simply skip the rock phase entirely and go straight to hip-hop or more contemporary genres, since they are far more amenable to be desified.

Anyway, sorry for encouraging the 'off-topic' discussion, I thought this topic was far more interesting than the political machinations of desi uncles.

among second genners, we have diverse opinions. i do think a certain segment of the second generation is not as well represented by older publications. but we have Sepia Mutiny, Little India...other forums. Its something definately needed, but I doubt we're going to see it from a generation with frankly different concerns. Given that, not all uncles are a certain way either. there's quite a few who do care about giving back and care about wide-ranging issues. When "we" get into trouble is when we have only one or two outlets that represent us

Wow, now I'm hella curious what *this* off the topic discussion was all about.

I would be very interested in finding out how many second-gens know about Rediff-India Abroad and how many have read it even once.

I'd be surprised if most of us haven't at least scanned it for event listings. I mean, it sits at the check out stand at almost any Indian grocery store. At Vik's they practically give it away.

Which, you know, might be why it caters to 1st generation. .forget the readership, the advertiser base is probably overwhelmingly first generation. I can't really see Manish or Vinod taking out adverts for Anaconia or Roundbox in India Abroad.

On another slight tangent, I have to say I went--totally by accident, and not for a particularly desi reason--the a fabulous desi event on Thursday night. I was meeting someone for work, but he happened to ask me to meet him at benefit by Creative Atma for Future Families of the Bay Area. I was wowed by this event on multiple levels--

1) Everyone was charming and friendly.
2) There was a great mix of people--it wasn't all desi by a long shot, despite having desi organizers, a desi tinge, and even quite a bit of desi music. There were plenty of other ethnicities who were totally involved with the festivities, and everyone was mingling. Non-balkanization. One of the things that always scared me away from desi parties in college was the uniform browness of them. I get spooked by uniform anything. So it was nice to see a group with a definite desi flavor still being totally welcoming and integrated.
3) Last but most--what a great cause. I mean, seriously, what a fantastically wonderful cause. When I think about orphans and homeless children--and the fact that they still have a hard time finding homes in our wealthy, progressive society--it's just heart-rending. A great, local charity that's doing valuable work everyone can get behind.

To me this seemed like an idealized version of what second generation politics can be about. (Actually, though, it seems like plenty of the participants were 20-something first generations. More power to them!)
1)Let's leverage our social network--which is undoubtedly going to have a strong ethnic component.
2) Let's leverage our cultural capital--which is undoubtedly going to have a strong ethnic component.
3) Let's leverage those touchstones of idealism that inform our character--which will undoubtedly have a strong ethnic component.

4) Let's not be afraid--be proud and determined even--to bring those ethnic components to the table along with all the rest of what's gone into making us us.

But let's not ignore all the other stuff--the influences of our friends and neighbors and teachers, the interests that have less to do with us as desis and more to do with us as human beings or even just Americans--that's not desi, and let's be thrilled to have everyone else at the table to. And let's bring that all to a table of issues that's universal, as well.

Just sayin', I'd like to see more of this. And people who have Valentines might want to get some last minute shopping done at the Creative Atma website.

Since the desi population is so spread out in the states, how do people try to get the desi vote therre

Here in Vancouver area every non-desi person running for office has to go the sikh temples/ and punjabi socials events to get votes. And more times then not they are dressed in indian dresses and suits just to impress the desi's here. This does do anything for me.

as for post #8
Maybe the people in india need to know about Kim Thayil and Tony Kanal. Unless I'm wrong they are the 2 most succesful desi's in the west when it comes to album sales[20 millions + for both]. Alot more then idiot's like Jazzy B

The star-struck desi uncles that play host, mostly just want their pictures taken with the candidate so that they can brag about how successful they are.

I dont think these desi uncles are necessarily apolitical, narrow minded (selfish) or apathetic about substantive issues. If they were in India, they might behave like completely different political creatures.

They dont particularly care about the politics of these candidates because they don't consider themselves to be a part of the political process, though they might have a vote. So they resort to ethnocentric politics and usually disregard the political orientation of the candidate as long as he is Indian/Indian origin. In the 'us' versus 'them' world, the 'us' is the only thing that matters.
There is a presumption that any 'us' will be better for Indians than any 'them'. I dont agree with the presumption, but thats the most prevalent view in the uncle community.

I would be very interested in finding out how many second-gens know about Rediff-India Abroad and how many have read it even once.

I'd be surprised if most of us haven't at least scanned it for event listings. I mean, it sits at the check out stand at almost any Indian grocery store. At Vik's they practically give it away.

Which, you know, might be why it caters to 1st generation. .forget the readership, the advertiser base is probably overwhelmingly first generation. I can't really see Manish or Vinod taking out adverts for Anaconia or Roundbox in India Abroad.

This is exactly my point. It facilitates in planning out weekends and evenings, and they give it away at Vik's, good for you. From Abhi's post I gathered he was looking for a serious reportage on issue relating to second-gen Indian-Americans. As for Vinod and Manish, only they could comment what their advertising budget and marketing strategy is.

They dont particularly care about the politics of these candidates because they don't consider themselves to be a part of the political process, though they might have a vote. So they resort to ethnocentric politics and usually disregard the political orientation of the candidate as long as he is Indian/Indian origin. In the 'us' versus 'them' world, the 'us' is the only thing that matters. There is a presumption that any 'us' will be better for Indians than any 'them'. I dont agree with the presumption, but thats the most prevalent view in the uncle community.

Yep.
In my observation many of these "community" leaders are handicapped by the baggage that they bring from India like caste, religion and region ( the "Which part of India are you from ?" uncle ). They are deeply skeptical and chary of anything having to do with politics (Indian politics can do that to you) and generally not that concerned about the "issues" that a candidate is addressing. In general the involvement is superficial like photo-ops and that too because that’s what their amrikkan colleagues do.

I would be very interested in finding out how many second-gens know about Rediff-India Abroad and how many have read it even once.

I actually do read the print version of India Abroad from time to time and think that it has improved a great deal in some ways -- some of its stories are quite interesting. Not all the time, mind you, but the magazine section, in particular, does have interesting features on arts, new books, social issues facing the community, and the like. Much better than it used to be.

All of that having been said, however, the week-to-week political coverage remains breathtakingly amateurish. Some of their stories certainly fill a niche by reporting on things that other publications may not cover, but without a whole lot of journalistic sophistication or professionalism. And given how bad the coverage can be, they are embarassingly self-congratulatory at times. When India Abroad published interviews in 2004 with George Bush and John Kerry, the paper made itself a bigger story than many of the substantive things that either candidate had to say -- there were separate articles on "how we got the interview" and at least with the Bush interview, a nice, big photograph of the interviewer with George Bush himself, just like the photos that get taken at campaign fundraisers. In the article accompanying the Bush interview, as I recall, they even suggested that whether Kerry would agree to a similar interview was a serious issue that Indian American voters should consider when deciding who to vote for.

Just last week, India Abroad suggested that Samuel Alito was the first Supreme Court justice with an "Indian connection" because one of the paper's editors met with Alito in 1988, when he was US Attorney, in connection with some extradition proceeding that his office was prosecuting involving two suspects in a political assassination who the government of India wanted extradited to face criminal charges in India. Complete with a scanned image of Alito's US Attorney business card. I wish I were making this up, but I promise you, it's right there on page A5 of the February 10, 2006 issue. Does it get any more embarassing than this?

(The wacky Alito comment is particularly narcissistic and ridiculous. Supreme Court justices have had "Indian connections" at least since 1923, when nine of them unanimously held that natives of the Indian subcontinent were not "white" and therefore were ineligible to naturalize as U.S. citizens. Not to mention their judicial clerks, Abhi's post being only the most recent reminder, and the meetings and dialogues that Justices Breyer and O'Connor have had from time to time with judges from India and other countries. And on and on and on....)

More disturbing than any of that, every now and then, I look at the paper and find several stories that sound suspiciously like they must be derivative of things I read on Sepia Mutiny the week before, but without attribution. Hmmmm....

More disturbing than any of that, every now and then, I look at the paper and find several stories that sound suspiciously like they must be derivative of things I read on Sepia Mutiny the week before, but without attribution. Hmmmm....

You think? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!

I actually do read the print version of India Abroad from time to time and think that it has improved a great deal in some ways -- some of its stories are quite interesting. Not all the time, mind you, but the magazine section, in particular, does have interesting features on arts, new books, social issues facing the community, and the like. Much better than it used to be.

I'm willing to believe that this is probably true. I like to pick on their political coverage which is most important to me.

When India Abroad published interviews in 2004 with George Bush and John Kerry, the paper made itself a bigger story than many of the substantive things that either candidate had to say -- there were separate articles on "how we got the interview" and at least with the Bush interview, a nice, big photograph of the interviewer with George Bush himself, just like the photos that get taken at campaign fundraisers.

Exactly! This is what really bugs me. They are so shocked that they actually got an interview, that being a journalist and reporting a story becomes of secondary importance. Even the begining of this article seems to suggest this shock. Rediff-India Abroad's political coverage during the 2004 election (or the lack of it) is partly why we created SM in the first place. If all goes well then we will have bloggers on the convention floor right next to Rediff's journalists in 2008.

More disturbing than any of that, every now and then, I look at the paper and find several stories that sound suspiciously like they must be derivative of things I read on Sepia Mutiny the week before, but without attribution.

You think? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!

1. :) I remember one post post that got into a Desi publication almost verbatim (don't remember which one).

2. So, is there a market for a publication that is directed at super-thin vertical of second-genners.

So, is there a market for a publication that is directed at super-thin vertical of second-genners.

Tom, let's create such a mutiny market.

Conventional wisdom is a second-gen mag won't do well unless it's a Cosmo clone. Several people are busy trying to prove the CW wrong. Personally I'm much happier with the speed and interactiveness of a blog.

Tom, let's create such a mutiny market.

Doing it from scratch will be quixotic. IMHO the mutiny market can be cultivated by contributing to Rediff-India Abroad. Mutnineers can prop that rag up with intellectual content.

Abhi fixes the editorials
Mahish gets the Op-Eds
Anna does the "page six"
Vinod business.
[...]

...Personally I'm much happier with the speed and interactiveness of a blog...

As for Vinod and Manish, only they could comment what their advertising budget and marketing strategy is.

Chill out Tom, I was just making a guess. That's why I said, "I can't really see it." Maybe it's possible, I just don't see it happening. I wasn't particularly disagreeing with you, just making a more narrow case for the same phenomena.

I think your post is potentially misleading. One of the most criteria in predicting future election success is past performance. Four years ago, Dilip came in fifth (5th) even though he spent the most money.