March 04, 2006
Tamil Tigers extorting money from aunties in TorontoPolitics
The Tamil Tigers can somehow afford a parallel government in northern Sri Lanka with a small navy, visa services and traffic tickets:
When you drive through the “border” post into their territory, you have to set your watch back half-an-hour to Tiger time…During a recent visit, as I drove down a quiet country road, a Tamil Tiger policeman took out his gun… we were hit - with a speeding fine. There aren’t many rebel groups that take traffic violations seriously.
… it is one of the absurdities of the situation in Sri Lanka that you can find yourself debating the finer points of highway etiquette with a group better known for its devastating use of suicide bombers. [Link]
That anecdote actually lays bare the real reason for speeding tickets in every government: revenues. The Tigers get some of theirs by extorting from a community which generally supports their politics. They track which auntie has given money and which hasn’t and send enforcers to their homes in Canada (thanks, Ananthan). It’s their equivalent of taxation:
They apologized when they came knocking on her door one night… the men came sometime before winter began last year, and they asked for a monthly donation of $50 for the “Tamil cause.”
After an exhausting hour of debate, the Sri Lankan-born woman relented and agreed to $30 a month. But when she stopped her payments three months later, the men came back. Now they demanded a one-time payment of $2,000. “They said if I give them the money this time, they’ll stop coming…”[At the LTTE checkpoint,] her luggage was checked and she was told to write down personal information, including her passport number, if she wanted to travel… into the Tamil Tiger heartland… to visit family…
After they stamped her Tiger papers in Kilinochchi, she says a man at the office talked to her about donations. He knew that she’d refused to donate in Vavuniya, so he told her that he’d sent her information to Canada and someone would be in touch with her after she returned.
That’s why she believes the men who came to her door last year were sent by the LTTE. “They know this information of how many times I refused to give them money and whom I refused,” she says. But she won’t go to the police because she fears for the life of her family both here and back home…
Although many Tamils in Canada support the LTTE, some require a little gentle encouragement:
Among the remaining 70 per cent, there’s widespread support for Tamil independence in Sri Lanka, and thus for the Tigers’ mission. But some within that majority can’t afford to donate to the cause, or are morally opposed to the Tigers’ violence. This is the group among whom LTTE intimidation — whether direct or through the Tigers’ fearsome reputation — opens wallets……. a Human Rights Watch report scheduled for release next month indicates that intimidation and extortion in Tamil communities in Toronto and London, England, are pervasive. “We have documented a few cases of more overt threats, but more commonly people just give without question because there is a culture of fear that has developed over time because of the knowledge of what the LTTE does in Sri Lanka, as well as incidents that have happened in the West…” [Link]
Basic facts about the Sri Lankan Tamils in Canada:
The Tamils are a fairly recent immigrant group in Canada. They started arriving in the early ’80s, after the 1983 anti-Tamil riots in Colombo… In 1999, 10 per cent of all refugee claimants in Canada were from Sri Lanka. Meanwhile, the Tamil diaspora in Canada has grown to 200,000, most of them located in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver. By some estimates, about 150,000 live in Toronto, and another 70,000 live in the Toronto suburbs, mostly in Scarborough. [Link]
There has been similar diasporic funding for the Khalistan movement in the ’80s (diasporas due to persecution, with plenty of voluntary donations), and Muslim charities which are fronts for terror groups (diasporas due to economics, with many donations arising from negligent oversight).
What I find interesting is that those extorted are being taxed under two regimes, once without representation. And a group which claims to defend minority rights has long since turned on its own.
manish on March 4, 2006 10:28 AM in Politics · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Ah the beauty of Canadian asylum loopholes. I can see Tamils going the way of Khalistani Sikhs in Canada.
As children of these fake asylum seeker Tamils grow up they also end up in gang warfare just like our Sikh brothers in Canada. Tamil street gangs are already very common in Toronto.
What is odd is I have heard even Indian Tamils faking as Sri Lankan Tamils so that they can claim asylum. When is Canada going to stop this madness in granting asylum to terrorists??
A little caveat when you use the word terrorists. That's your definition [perhaps taken from many of the countries that do consider the LTTE a terrorist organisation]. But that's not Canada's position. I believe it has to do with the definition of terrorism [acts against civilians considered terrorist activity, acts against military targets not terrorist activity] in Canada, and the fact that the list was created post cease-fire time.
Of course, now that Stockwell Day has his cabinet post, he'll likely change the standing of the LTTE after years of trying as the opposition.
Someone came to my families home here in Toronto (Scarborough) a few months back. My mom said she wasn't interested in giving them any money and that was that. No return visits or long arguments. I think the real issue here is that new immigrants are too afraid to say no, or to stand up for themselves.
Tamil street gangs aren't much of an issue anymore. A few years back the police pretty much took down the two big ones, AK Kanan and the VVT. Also, both gangs have little to do with the LTTE as far as I can recall.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. While Canada has been sympathetic, immigrants and refuges are key to Canadian economic growth as much as anything else. Clearly, without new Canadians, it would face huge problems because of an otherwise aging population. Despite lower initial wage relative to their native-born counterparts, new Canadians have a much higher savings rate.
Lets face facts: the thing that separates immigrants and kids of immigrants from asylum seekers is the financial resources. Its not cheap to be an immigrant and not everyone can afford the process or time it takes. So the fact that Im a child of immigrant just means that I am lucky. Not that I was more moral, deserving, hard working, or anything like that.
I cant help but laugh at those who describe people from war-zones as fake asylum seekers. Its right up there with denying the holocaust. Sure there are gang bangers, but thats in every ethnicity, immigrants or asylum seekers.
And its interesting that the comment about Sikhs doesnt mention how long that demographic has been a part of Canada and how important they were for diversity in this country. If it werent for them, the rest of us brown folk would have been kept out much longer.
Purposely killing civilians and splinter LTTE groups, kidnapping kids and using as child soldiers, pioneering suicide belts and blowing up another country's prime minister qualifies as terrorist in any country.
Whether you feel threatened/extorted depends a lot on whether your relatives live in LTTE territory.
Let's be accurate but let's not whitewash. These guys have some good political aims against severe persecution, but they're ruthless killers.
But these poor people are just fighting for their freedom, just like their Kashmiri brethren. It is so sad that they are forced to use children and innocent civilians - look what the evil Srilankan government has made the do; it is only next to the Indian govt in badness!
Lastly, dont EVER forget - no one can be as *evil* as the Hindutvadis, who perpetrate *genocides*.
Since I'm from Canada, I have no problem saying that Canada does not have good record fighting terrorism.
As Manish pointed out, it is not their aims we question but their techniques. The Kashmiri Islamists and LTTE is equally as genocidal as 'Hindutvadis'
Manish:
It has nothing to do with whitewashing and everything to do with the law. That's the Canadian government's definition [here's the link again]. The first post asked why Canada continues granting asylum to terrorists (re:LTTE). They are not. While you suggest their actions qualify them as terrorists in any country, that's an emotional definition [and I would argue of the LTTE's pre-CF actions, it's also a factual definition], but it's not entirely relevant to answering the FP's question.
Actually, I'd say we have a good record of fighting terrorism where no one else cares or has incentive to help out.... Rwanda for example.
Visiting some Sri Lankan Canadian Tamil homes can be quite interesting -expecially when you find those martyr-of-the-month-club-type calendars hanging in the kitchen (or wherever)... it's a quick glimpse into how the occupants really feel/think.
I'm under the impression that, like Ramanan said, one may politely decline purchase of propaganda paraphanelia or refuse donation without concern of future harassment.
Canada defines terrorism in UN terms:
UN defines as killing civilians:
Your link is down.
Unless your family lives in Tamil Tiger territory, in which case you quite justifiably fear violent reprisal.
Manish:
I really don't want to go down tit for tat each time, but...well I guess I feel the clarification is important.
I don't disagree with your UN definitions. I think that's important. While the US also defines terrorism as acts against the military, Canada does not. My personal belief is that's why Canada does not defines the LTTE as a terrorist organisation. Because the act of defining a terrorist organisation arose out of post-9/11 legislation, and possibly post cease fire [haven't checked], I believe Canada's stance was not to include them on the list because they had purportedly ceased those terrorist activities.
So when I say Canada doesn't consider the LTTE a terrorist organisation, I mean that legalistically, not emotionally, not factually, not anything else. I can't stress that enough because that is an established fact you're arguing against.
We're arguing at cross purposes by your refusal to believe it I guess. The issue that arises out of this is precisely what you said above,
I would go further and suggest you don't have to have family living in Tiger territory to be intimidated, and that the recent immigrants and the less established immigrant community is particular vulnerable in Canada to threats and extortion locally. But I wasn't speaking to that. I was trying to answer [what might have been rhetorical] the question of FakeAsylee.
Anyway, I don't know how to demonstrate it more to you. Terribly sorry about that link, that's the government website for "Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness", of which Stockwell Day is the new minister. I've got a couple of links from a google search of "Canada tigers Stockwell day" [no quotes]
First, from the main Toronto Star article that you've linked to and dissected at length:
Next, Canada Free Press:
Finally from Tribe Canada [never heard of this publication before, but it turned up high on that google search]:
Long story short, CSIS considers them terrorists, CSIS is not the Government of Canada, the Government of Canada does not consider them terrorists. [Yet]
I'm done, I apologize for the length, but that's all I can possibly say on this and hopefully it's enough. Personally the most disturbing thing to come out of this side discussion is that the Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness website is down.
Doesn't Canada have any legislation that bans the financial support of 'terrorist' organisations? Couldn't these extortionists be reported to authorities?
C'mon people, anyone who blows people up with a BOMB should be considered a "terrorist."
If you want to fight, fight peacefully in a civilized way.
If you want to fight, fight peacefully in a civilized way.
Well, the aim of most fighting is to kill and it's more-or-less uncivilized to kill a person regardless of the goal, so what exactly do you mean by "fight... in a civilized way?"
There are less violent ways to kill a person and then what some governments define as "humane" killing, but in modern history, most every "fight" has devolved into a war of attrition that rarely ends via "civilized" means. That won't happen here because neither side is very civil or civilized when it comes to relating to the other.
I think Ritam was being funny and point out some of the absurdity in what Manish is saying.
Yes, it's an excellent parody. It explains how the Tigers don't regularly murder noncombatants.
No, but it explains why labeling everyone with a gun a terrorist is simple.
(I am no fan of the LTTE -- at all. I just realize this issue is far more complex then a few stories from some Canadian papers let on.)
How is this
the same as
?
People throw the word terrorist around too easily was my only point.
I'm not fan of the LTTE in the least, but the fact remains they're really the only group representing the Tamils in Sri Lanka at the moment. (I suppose that is what happens when you kill or swallow up all the other groups trying to represent the Tamils.) I don't think it does anyone any good to ignore them. You suggest labeling them terrorists is the only sensible thing to do, but this is stupid since they do have overwhelming popular support of the Tamil people. And without the LTTE, there really is no one representing them. The government certainly does not.
Also the government has a lot of blood on its hands, so it's a bit one sided to call the LTTE terrorists while ignoring the things the government and army and Indian army have done in the past.
It's not possessing a gun which makes a person a terrorist, but who they point the weapon at and their motivations for pulling the trigger.
A thought experiment:
Take Ramanan's statement; Substitute 'Kashmiri militants' for LTTE and 'Indian government' for 'government/ Sri Lankan govt' 'muslims' for Tamils and you have one of those statements routinely issued by Pakistan!!
So, do those people who support LTTE also support Kashmiri separation?
Does Pakistan govt support LTTE??
The ans to both is mostly NO, I suspect.
HYPOCRISY RULES!!!
to echo ramanan's comments, it reflects poorly on manish to harp on the tigers' actions and wrongdoings with nary a word on the doing by the GoSL. this reeks of poor journalism. as i've stated in earlier posts, manish, your obvious indian nationalism refuses you to look past rajiv's death and the military defeat of the Indian Army by the LTTE, and see the Sri Lankan Question for what it really is.
as an aside, it's interesting to note SM's lack of coverage of the "historic" CFA talks held by the LTTE and the GoSL. sorry, if it was actually covered and i missed it. but, i've noticed a concerted effort by SM editorialists to strictly cover negative LTTE material, when it comes to the SL Question.
I think what that first BBC article and what this BBC article illustrate - through the example of the traffic police - is that violence and murder aren't the only things that the LTTE does. The LTTE also provides services like schools and hospitals, and I imagine that the revenue from these traffic tickets doesn't go exclusively to purchasing weapons and perpetuating more violence, but goes to fund these services as well. This is, of course, an inference and you can take it or leave it.
It's because of this provisional government and its bureaucracy, Xfile, where your "thought experiment" falls apart. Unlike [other] terrorist groups, the LTTE has authority within a given geographical area and maintains an administration in that area. You can't interchange groups, states, and actors without considering the historical and socio-political context of each situation.
I hope someone more well-read on this subject will chime in, but I imagine not many people will because the subject isn't India. Yes, I'm guilty of this Indo-centrism as well.
I am sure many of you will find the following very interesting:
"Former General Officer Commanding (GOC) the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF), General Ashok K. Mehta will have no objections if the North-East Province in Sri Lanka is renamed Tamil Eelam with Velupillai Pirapaharan at its helm, so long as it is within a united Sri Lanka."
source: http://www.tamilcanadian.com/pageview.php?ID=3852&SID=59
The record of terrorist groups successfully shifting into government is mighty thin. The original revolutionary motive is coopted into personal gain, and years on, the comandante has no interest in democracy or giving up money and power. See the Palestinian Authority, Bhindranwale. The LTTE just prevented people from voting in the SL elections. At this point they're hardly representatives of a people-- they're trying to prolong the conflict, it seems to suit them just fine.
False moral equivalence. When the GoSL kills noncombatants (again), when the LTTE ever holds a democratic election to choose its leadership, tip me and I'll post it. For you to hold a terrorist group up as the equivalent of any democratic government-- even with all the GoSL's acknowledged murders and humans rights abuses-- is laughable.
Yes, the assassination of a head of state generally, the SL foreign minister and the Indian PM specifically, makes people characterize the LTTE as a terrorist group. Funny, that.
We're not journalists, we're bloggers-- we post what interests us. I've noticed a concerted effort by Tamil partisans to write only comments which show the LTTE in a positive light.
My PoV is against the murder of noncombatants and against dictatorship, authoritarianism and the rule of muscle. That's why I oppose both discrimination vs. Tamils in Sri Lanka and the murder of LTTE dissidents by the Tigers. What's yours, 'they wear my jersey'?
Unlike democratic governments, the LTTE doesn't hold elections, rule with the consent of the governed, try people before executing them, tax with representation...
Manish wrote:
For you to hold a terrorist group up as the equivalent of any democratic government-- even with all the GoSL's acknowledged murders and humans rights abuses-- is laughable.
Not that laughable. A group can engage in extralegal violence against civilians and still be elected democratically. Was Narendra Modi's BJP in Gujurat a terrorist group during the Gujurat pogroms? In the recent Goan pogroms, the Goan BJP is also engaging in and encouraging violence against civilians. Terrorist? You bet.
And before the slugs crawl out from under the rocks, I'll note that the JI was involved in the anti-Hindu pogroms in Karachi post Ayodhya, and a JI man was later elected Mayor of Karachi. Some of the fragments of the MQM are pretty terrorist, and yet the MQM sits in Parliment, and has occasionally governed Sindh.
And HAMAS is both a democratically elected gvt and a terrorist group. Is HAMAS to equivalent to itself?
The problems in Sri Lanka go back to at least the 60s (or maybe the 1860s!), and there have been more than a few occasions where the gvt aided and abetted ethnic violence against Hindu, Muslim, and Christian Tamil speakers. (The one place in South Asia where those groups could have communal unity!). The Tigers were and are terrorists, pure and simple. But the GoSL has also been terroristic in the past. Its complicated.
In the recent Goan pogroms, the Goan BJP is also engaging in and encouraging violence against civilians.
Goan pogroms? Are you referring to the Inquisition of the 1500s? If not, can you please explain? Thanks.
A while back there was a relevant discussion on this board . The net from that discussion was, to me, that the tigers do not want peace or elections because it corrodes their power base.
unless you can find fault with the facts in that discussion, the reasoning and the conclusion, you will find it difficult to budge my (and others') perception of the tigers as a nefarious entity - they should not be funded or supported in canada.
Oh we seculars LOOOOVe to have orgies about "progroms". Even if we have to make up some of them just to get ourselves off.
Whosgod..etc wrote
Goan pogroms? Are you referring to the Inquisition of the 1500s? If not, can you please explain? Thanks
Google Sanvordem. Or read this or this
Muslim families living in Goa's twin towns of Savordem and Curchorem are leaving their homes even as peace is limping back, following two days of violent communal riots that the state witnessed for the first time.
Later the mob targeted their ire on a petrol pump owned by a Muslim.
This however did not deter the arsonists who used explosives to break open shops of Muslims and resort to looting spree
According to a report published in a local daily, a BJP office bearer was heard saying, "It's high time the Hindus and Christians join hands to kill the Muslims." But no BJP leader was arrested for inciting the crowd.
This is gettign offtopic, so I'll stop here.
Ikram,
what happened in Goa is hardly a pogrom by any stretch of the imagination. violence broke out after, to quote The Hindu and other secular Indian news sources (hardly pro-BJP), members of the "minority community" refused to demolish an illegal mosque as required by the law and got violent. this resulted in retaliation. I'm not excusing it, but there is blame to go on both sides and it's not a pogrom. if that's a pogrom, then so was the killing of Hindu shopkeepers in Lucknow a few days earlier by "minority community" for refusing to shut their shops to protest Bush, egged on by minority community religious leaders and Indian leftists and communists. and so was the killing of Hindus last year in Mau, under the instigation of the local govt. official Shahabuddin, after Hindus were refused permission to have their Dussehra procession. these are all instances of regrettable communal violence, not pogroms.
Gujarat riots, the anti-Sikh riots of 1984, the brutal ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits from their homeland in Kashmir, what's going on in Darfur and Baluchistan, these qualify more as pogroms. one has to be very careful in throwing around words like pogrom and genocide. i think you are guilty of getting a little emotional on that one.
You're right they try hard. They bend over backwards in fact to accommodate, or present in a better light, whitewash, and generally play nicey-nice to their ever-disgruntled Muslim brethren. To me it actually comes across as very genuine if a little delusional. And in this you perceive a stench? Whichever way you cut it, Indians outnumber (dare I say outshine?) the rest of the desi populace. Naturally that provides for more topics of conversation. On what basis do you seek equal representation? In any case it would be less accurate if they said this is exclusively an Indian blog.
We're not journalists, we're bloggers-- we post what interests us. I've noticed a concerted effort by Tamil partisans to write only comments which show the LTTE in a positive light.
Yes, but I do think some of the partisans are looking to move the discussion to a middle-ground and that can't happen if the LTTE is always presented as a synonym for "terrorism." Don't get me wrong, I do believe some of the tactics used by the Tigers are wrong and, that the movement has become so diffuse it appears to have no head or goal...
But the plain and simple fact is that the LTTE has control in the north, it does have a political agenda and it does hold a few seats in government. People may not recognize that as legitimate, but it is the elephant in the room and the only way to get around it is to talk about it (because, let's face it, the GoSL has been shouting "terrorist" and trying to kill the LTTE for years and that mission, above all fledgling attempts at autonomy and government, is the one thing that has had a 100% failure-rate).
A sidenote in regard to killing of "splinter-groups":
A few years ago, the peace-process was underway and a prerequisite for talks was a unilateral ceasefire. The LTTE splinter-groups, by definition, were not interested in being a part of that process and instead made a mad-grab for provincial power. Prabhakaran wanted to keep things together for the sit-down, the other groups wanted their own piece of the pie and began acting on their own...
The Prabhakaran-led LTTE is as ruthless as they come, but not as mindless as they're made out to be. The GoSL won't enter talks with the LTTE so long as anyone is waging war on the Sinhalese and, the GoSL justifiably refused Prabhakaran's request for assistance in dealing with these "splinter-groups." So, really, the only option is for the LTTE to go after them on their own...
I bring this up because the attacks on these groups are characterized as just another form of LTTE terrorism, which really isn't true. And while I'm not saying the Prabhakaran-led LTTE is just a big peace-loving war-machine, I am saying that when it comes to a discussion of what's really happening out there, there is more to it all than just saying "they" want to prolong the conflict--some part of the LTTE still knows what it wants and would like to move beyond the fighting, even if it means they have to fight each other.
ramanan, you said it yourself--the LTTE looks like the only group represting tamils because they kill everyone that oppposes them. there are other groups representing Tamils, but since they have a stance against the kind of action the LTTE engages in, they have to be very careful about what they say or do. and how do you gain support without being able to draw attention to yourself? it's a catch-22. and i think the articles manish posted show that the LTTE does not have overwhelming support from Tamils--that for many people (especially those who are disenfranchised), it is coerced "support".
dogday, good comments.
whether its news, journalism, or blogging, if one makes an attempt at publishing news or information, there is an unsaid rule that one should attempt to be fair and rational in their presentation. with regards to the SL conflict, Sepia Mutiny has been anything BUT fair. by harping tiger terrorism and what not, without giving any context of the far worse SL state terrorism, this site seems to serve the overt indian nationalism of some of it's authors. it's sad to see attempts to black and white a very complex issue, then again my suspicions are that its unlikely their not deliberate.
well, to comment on the topic. from my experiences and observations from friends, relatives, etc, their hasn't been any coercion or intimidation for funds. most of the well off give willingly, others do monthly installments. the tigermen understand if they piss anyone off, its very easy to call CSIS (our CIA), who are more than willingly to prosecute. but the point here is that the vast majority of the Eelam Tamil Diaspora support and willingly donate. ample evidence is the incredible amount of crowds that flock to pro-LTTE rallies and Great Hero Day Remembrances (Nov. 27th) that happen all over the Greater Toronto Area. dhaavak, there was even one held at the War Memorial Hall in Guelph. I think your opinion on whether the LTTE should be allowed to exist in Canada would be better served if you were to discuss this issue on a personal level with the Tamil Canadians you do know.
Human Rights watch has a report out on the extortion in Toronto. The Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star are both carrying the stories: Ottawa urged to probe Tamil threats and Tigers feeding off Toronto kinsmen, group says
And of course Tamilnet has opinions from the other side of the fence.
A cross section of the Tamil Canadian community, comprising grass root organizations, will address a Press Conference, to be held on Wednesday, March 15, 2006, at 2:00 pm at the Delta Toronto East, 2035 Kennedy Road (Kennedy & 401), Scarborough, Ontario, M1T 3G2 Toronto C Ballroom in order to challenge the report.
For further information, please contact Canadian Tamil Congress at 416 240 0078
From the links above:
this is the problem with heresay, one CANNOT know if these allegations and sources are in fact genuine or just efforts to vilify the LTTE.
what really amuses me is that if the tamil diaspora community is really this coerced into financially supporting the LTTE, what does this say about CSIS (who have been pushing tooth and nail to get the LTTE banned in Canada) and the Toronto Police?
after all what's said in these reports, the fact remains, there has yet to be one conviction or arrest by the Cdn. authorities.
moreover, another amusing insight is that, if the canadian tamil community is so cowed by the LTTE and their front organizations, why is it that the Canadian Tamils' only request in lobbying of the Canadian political parties is to ensure they DO NOT ban the Tigers. this contradiction is alarming! this reports claims widespread extortion and coercion, yet fails to even attempt the issue of widespread support the Tigers have within the Tamil diaspora.
again, the problem with this report and various other perceptions of the Tigers and Eelam Tamil people, stems from an attempt to black and white an immensely grey area.
You can't condemn blowing up civilians and abducting children without insinuating bias? Weak, and fundamentally immoral.
When a group tries to intimidate witnesses, you have to go to second-tier sources because people die when they speak on the record.
How are Tamils faring in parts of the country not under LTTE control? Is it true that the majority of the upper cadres of the LTTE are Christian? This is what I have learned in the Indian press--which is not always reliable. I know nothing about the situation and would like to know.
manish, your attempts to deflect your and your site's obvious bias is laughable at best. you really have to get over the rajiv incident and the military defeat of the Indian Army by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. would you like more quotes and articles on Indian Army chiefs' praise and remote support of Velupillai Prabakaran and the LTTE. but i digress.
Eddy, that is not true. from my knowledge, the bulk of the top leadership are Hindu Tamils. However, there have been some notable Christian Tamil Tigers. also, the thing you have to be careful with the indian press, is that there exists a lot of bias, especially with the Brahmin owned ones in the South. Editors like Ram, Balachandran, Swamy, have demonstrated great bias and hate towards the Tigers, with no criticism of the Government of Sri Lanka. however, of late, i've come across quite a few number of articles from bengali journalists and papers that are in support of the LTTE. hope that helps.
It's really simple, Parthi. It's a yes or no question, and you're unwilling to look it in the face.
Do you or do you not disavow killing civilians, suicide bombings and abducting child soldiers as tactics, regardless of political goals?
If you support them with the LTTE, do you support them with Al Qaeda? How about the PLO? How about the IRA?
Your lack of response is its own answer. Bias is what you claim when you can't win on the issues.
i'm sorry manish, but my job doesn't allow me to constantly monitor SM postings
again and again you attempt to Black and White an issue that CANNOT BE.
my contention has always been that you and your site do an injustice to the Truth of the Sri Lankan Conflict by continuously painting the LTTE as a bunch of loonie terrorists. without having the guts to reflect that same light upon the Government of Sri Lanka.
your questions on terrorism, civilian atrocities, child soldiers, etc are just as applicable upon the Government of Sri Lanka, as well as many other countries, particularly YOUR OWN, i.e. INDIA & U.S. the human rights abuses conducted by those countries are well known and documented, i need not insult everyone here and drag their skeletons out. yet, you and your site feels it necessary to harp endlessly on the Tigers and their doings.
i see a lot of broken glass around.
If you support them with the LTTE, do you support them with Al Qaeda? How about the Palestinians? How about the IRA?
The LTTE, IRA and Al-Qaeda are terrorist groups while Palestinians are a 'people'. Some Palestinians of course are terrorists, but lets not conflate all Palestinians with terrorist groups made up of Palestinians.
I am not suggesting that Manish intentionally made that conflation, but thats how it came out.
I'll take that as a no, you don't disavow these tactics. And I think that's immoral on the face of it, regardless of the actor.
again and again you attempt to Black and White an issue that CANNOT BE.
First, that's inaccurate:
Second, killing civilians is evil. It really is that simple.
Third, Sri Lanka, India and the U.S. don't use child soldiers.
Fourth, Sri Lanka, India and the U.S. don't use suicide bombers.
Fifth, the U.S. doesn't specifically target civilians. India has. Sri Lanka has, but in much lower numbers than the LTTE. I disavow this tactic entirely.
But you know all that. You're not actually interested in the issues.
Sorry, I meant PLO, corrected.
Parthi: Is it possible that both the Sri Lankan government and the LTTE are wrong? Sri Lanka government for committing atrocities on the Tamils and the LTTE for using illegitimate means to redress legitimate grievances.
manish, your ignorance appalls me. for you to state the Sri Lankan Government has killed fewer civilians than the LTTE betrays your tremendous lack of understanding and knowledge of the Sri Lankan conflict. the GoSL has killed Tamil Civilians in the thousands, whereas LTTE civilian death are in the hundreds. please get your information right.
suicide bombing and killing innocent civilians is more or less the same thing.
sri lankan government may not vigourously recruit children, though they do that in poor singhala villages to kids as young as 14. their preference is to whore their children out. anyone who knows sri lanka is aware that South Sri Lanka has a booming child prostitution, pornography, exploitation trade.
"India and the U.S. don't specifically target civilians" - hahahah, that's killer material you got there manish. heck, it is heavily documented the amount of targeted civilian deaths CAUSED BY THE INDIAN ARMY upon the Tamil civilian populations during the IPKF time of 87-90, read The Broken Palmyra (a book much paraded by anti-LTTE critics) for documentation. there's a reason rajiv got what he got. it's widely understood and known, killing rajiv was not a political aim of the LTTE, but rather an act of revenge, for the gross amount of human rights violations and terrorism the Indian Army committed upon the Tamil civilian populations.
so if we're gonna play by your rules and definitions: the LTTE is terrorist, the Government of Sri Lanka is terrorist, the Government of India is terrorist, the Government of the United States is terrorist.
which, ultimately, brings us to my contention, that you and your site unfairly and unduly target the LTTE, despite the flagrant acts of terrorism and human rights violations committed by the 3 other stated parties.
then again, this blatant whitewashing of the sins of state actors and highlighting of the LTTE acts will continue, and only reinforce my suspicions of your vigilance on the LTTE is deeply rooted in your anger over Rajiv's death and India's Vietnam.
AMFD, most definitely, my argument on this site is that information presented about the LTTE and the conflict in Sri Lanka, and the manner it is, is ridiculously tilted against the LTTE.
Sepia Mutiny goes out of it's way to cover articles that discredit and antagonize the LTTE, yet fail to produce even one positive article/essay about them, even when it's done by TIME magazine or the BBC. and their have been quite a few in the recent months, mostly pieces on the efficieny and strength of the Tamil Eelam state and administration. however, my suspicions are that this site's editors prefer such material is not brought to light, as it will shed credibility upon the Tigers. they would rather keep the Tigers pigeonholed as a terrorist entity.
Eddie, the majority of Tamils are Hindu, but I am pretty sure the LTTE are a secular group.. There are probably a fair number of Christians in the LTTE.
Do you know how many Tamil people have died in Toronto for speaking their mind? I think the number is 0. I don't have a source mind you, but something like that would probably make the news.
I do not doubt that there are people being taken advantage of, and that is wrong, and that should be stopped. But, if you seriously think the Tamil community lives in fear here in Scarborough of LTTE reprisals you are probably mistaken. The diaspora probably support the LTTE even more than those living in North and the East of Sri Lanka since the actions of the LTTE don't effect them in the least.
I don't think you'll ever find reprisals happening in Toronto. The last time Tamil streets gangs started to act up the Toronto police arrested everyone and sent them home. People with tenuous connections to the country are probably less inclined to rock the boat.
The US army actively tries to recruit underage children, even if those children don't get to serve till they are of age. As far as I can tell, US Army recruiters are pretty predatory. I imagine this is also the case in India and Sri Lanka, though I am unsure. (Stories of the LTTE kidnapping children are obviously worse, but it's all a suck in the end. The fact that there is no full blown fighting in Sri Lanka makes the US actions worse in my opinion, since shipping 18 year olds to Iraq seems more cruel.)
Are you shitting me?
Do you have numbers to back this up. I'm going to guess you are talking out of your ass. You're just asking for someone to jump in and start listing off all the bad things both groups have done.
The LTTE kill all sorts of people. They are a paramilitary organization. That is what they do. The fact that it's pretty easy to make the case that either the Indian government and the Sri Lankan governemnt has been just as vicious as the LTTE within Sri Lanka is disappointing.
And though Parthi is a bit strong in his defence of the LTTE, he is correct in pointing out that Manish tries a bit too hard to paint things in a simple manner.
At the end of the day, if you are going to let Singhala Nationalists speak at the diplomacy table, it seems hypocritical to ask the LTTE to stay home.
Hello.
This is a difficult subject to broach in a broad audience. my frame of context is set through some tenets that i believe give good guidance to people such as i whose history straddles several continents. i will try to articulate them here
- support your kin but do not bring your native land's wars on this soil.
- teach your kids your history, but do not teach them hate of those they will never know or meet.
- support your community but recognize and reconcile your sense of community with who will be at hand if your house burns down today.
To me the support of LTTE runs counter to these. It affects me if these wars ever come to canada. I can not support that.
dhavak, i understand, respect, and disagree with your comments.
it is NOT easy for one NOT to consciously leave their homeland's problems and live consciously in a new land. can a child forget it's mother? by bringing "wars on this soil", i am unsure to the context you are referring with regards to the LTTE. to this day, there has not been any arrests or convictions on Canadian soil or by any Canadian agency with regards to the LTTE and how they operate in Canada.
no one in our community is taught to hate the Singhalese or anything of that nature. let it be known, this conflict is not between the Tamils and Singhalese, but rather the Tamils and the Sri Lankan Government.
it is funny you make that last comment. in light of the tsunami, it has been widely documented and reported that it was the Tigers that attended to the plight of the Tamil people when the disaster struck, with no government aid or help. moreover, i am not sure if you are aware of the PTOMS, but it was the tsunami aid sharing deal that was negiotiated between the LTTE and the GoSL. however, it was stuck down by the Supreme Court of Sri Lanka because it "violated" Sri Lankan sovereignty, thus stranding billions of dollars of int'l aid in limbo. TRUST ME, us Tamils know who will be there when our houses burn down. there is no JUSTICE, it's JUST US.
Dear Parthi:
Thank you for your well-thought response to my post.
I can not argue with you because the level at which you have experienced this issue will never be known to me. This is not a topic in which anyone but those who have been touched by the war can have moral clarity.
Ultimately, my guidelines are ultimately set by the governmental bodies who, I presume, have a broader perspective on things. This does not necessarily make them right, but I do not have the facts nor the moral authority to challenge them.
My point is that the LTTE has been designated a terrorist organization by the European Union and the United States. I believe the CSIS has recommended that Canada follow suit but the judgement has been deferred. I can not be drawn into an argument whether this is correct or not. I do not have the legal authority to draw a judgement that would apply to Canada. I will back your right to dissent and your right to get the LTTE de-listed as a terrorist organization. Till that happens, the organization is tainted to me. Supporting this organization by providing them money makes us participants in terrorism.
Regards,
Dhavaak -- I think the words you're looking for were sung by Stan Rogers two decades ago. The only political song this Canadian treasure ever wrote. It was the last song on his last album before he died. This song has always given me chills. True for Ireland, True for Pakistan, True for Sri Lanka.
I took back my hand and I showed him the door
No dollar of mine would I part with this day
For fueling the engines of bloody cruel war
In my forefather's land far away.
....
Their sons have no politics. None call recall
Allegiance from long generations before.
O'this or O'that name just can't mean a thing
Or be cause enough for to war.
And meanwhile my babies are safe in their home,
Unlike their pale cousins who shiver and cry
While kneecappers nail their poor Dads to the floor
And teach them to hate and to die.
....
Now they cry out for money and wail at the door
But Home Rule or Republic, 'tis all of it shame;
And a curse for us here who want nothing of war.
We're kindred in nothing but name.
All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away,
For causes are ashes where children lie slain.
Yet the damned U.D.I and the cruel I.R.A.
Will tomorrow go murdering again.
But no penny of mine will I add to the fray.
"Remember the Boyne!" they will cry out in vain,
For I've given my heart to the place I was born
And forgiven the whole House of Orange
King Billy and the whole House of Orange.
My word... Ikram, ...!!
A generation apart - but the issues and the need for refuge are the same... why this is home
Thanks for sharing. I'll look the album up this weekend.
Not long ago, the Tamils of Sri Lanka were considered one of the meekest people on earth. Very religious and hardworking lot. The Sinhalse extremists brutalized them repeatedly in 1956, 1958, 1961, 1977 and in 1983 in race riots. For example, in 1983, several political prisoners who were at the Welikade prison, had their eyes plucked out by the rioters. More than 100,000 Tamils have been killed and to this day not a single Sinhala pepetrator was ever brought to justice. That is when Tamils became the leading suicide warriers in the world. The sheer brutality they faced made these meek folks into what they are now.
Canada has officially recognized the LTTE as a terrorist organization.
See here