Brilliant story!

Haha, that's great.

However, it’s rare to complain that illegal immigrants pose a national danger because they’re just too good looking.

Hillarious!!! The way you added your comments ... just great I almost laughed out loud in my cube.

They check each other's butts and then comment on the eye color?

I wonder how many Bangladeshis are blue-eyed.

Paging Razib, paging Razib ... a question about both Bangladeshis and genetics ... No where did I leave the top secret Razib phone ...

We need to send this to Lou Dobbs.. Give him one more reason to whip-up xenophobia. (In case he runs out of all the other reasons that he regularly uses) :-)

We need to send this to Lou Dobbs

I used to like Lou Dobbs when he actually talked about business and finance. Now he has turned his show from a business show into a nativist anti-free trade hate-fest. Lou Dobbs should feel more comfortable at Fox News where they raise the flag higher than any news network. CNN though is not far behind Fox now, they have Lou Dobbs and also that equally obnoxious wench, Nancy Grace.

Nancy Grace causes more destruction every night to defendant rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights than O'Reilly and Hannity combined.

Ah, I see another reason for America to hate Islam...

I remember back to my onetime visit to Singapore, and I remember how the Malaysians were beaming their version of the Islamic 700-club into the Singaporean TV market. And I recall why Singapore had such a strong military.

Thank God, at least someone somewhere considers desi men to be sexy. Gentlemen, there is hope.

I wonder how many Bangladeshis are blue-eyed.

I wonder how many Bangladeshis are blue-eyed.

At the moment in the UK version of the TV show 'The Apprentice' the one contestant who is making the most waves and impact is a Bangladeshi Londoner called Syed who has green eyes. He makes me female work mates heats go a flutter.

He is very sharp and singleminded - I hope he wins the show.

I meant of course 'my female work mates HEARTS go a flutter'!

I wonder how many Bangladeshis are blue-eyed.

i one blue-eyed rikshawallah in dhaka 2 years ago (it seems implausible that a rikshawallah would be able to afford blue eye contacts). green and hazel eyes are not TOTALLY unknown, though really rare (out of the cousins i've seen in person, which is around 100, i know one with hazel-green eyes).

I think Anand got a little excited at the thought of Syed's nasheeli blue eyes himself, hence all those typos in his post ;)

Yet another "Brokeback moment" here on SM.....

Syed's nasheeli blue eyes

Sorry guys, that should have said "green eyes". Unlike Anand, I haven't been paying much attention to Syed's oh-so-dreamy eyes.

*just kidding, Anand*

Blue eyes in northern India, while certainly not common, do pop up here and there. Green eyes are more common, and hazel even more so. In India, Kashmiris and Punjabis probably have the highest frequency. Afghani Pashtuns of course very often have blue or green eyes, and brownish, sometimes blondish hair. If you go to Punjab during a big festival (for example I was there one year during Hola Mohalla) when huge numbers of people gather in close quarters, you'll be amazed at how high a percentage of the rural population has fair skin, brownish hair, and light eyes. Rajasthan, Haryana and western UP also to a lesser degree. For that matter I've seen south Indian brahmins with green/hazel eyes. Aryan invasion/migration theory, anyone?

For that matter I've seen south Indian brahmins with green/hazel eyes. Aryan invasion/migration theory, anyone?

Oh boy! Run to your house and fall on your knees so God may save you from the wrath of the great Khan.

@anand,

green/hazel eyes are not uncommon in south karnataka at least. konkanis and iyengars are the worst offenders here, but some others have it too. aishwarya for eg (she is tulu). blue is unheard of. and the color of the eye is not always correlated with complexion.

as for the aryan theory for the eye color, i wouldn't be sure. too many variables. for one, it could be the europeans who settled in colonial times, or the middle easterns who blended into the population. that seems more plausible to me. konkanis are coastal people, and they may have had trade contacts always.

but in any case, more races in your blood is a sure way to beat genetic diseases. all for your good only :).

and the color of the eye is not always correlated with complexion.

the genes are probably unliked (hair and skin color have a more close link it seems), so they aren't fundamentally connected (they simply happen to be selected together quite often i suspect for a variety of reasons).

re: eye color, c.s. coon the living races of man has some data on indians and eye color. mixed eyes are known in the northwest, but there is a strong nw->se gradient toward uniform brownness. re: groups that have light eyes in south india, some of it is probably admixture/migration. but, strong inbreeding can also result in high frequencies of different alleles in populations. to give an example of what i'm talking about, assume that you have a population where 10% of the genes are for "blue eyes" and 90% are for "brown eyes." assume that you need two "blue eye" copies for blue eyes, then 0.1*0.1 = 0.01, or 1% of the population. but, if you separated the population into two groups, with all the blue eye genes being in one population, that the aggregate metapopulation would be 10% blue eyed. in other words, novel genetic traits will emerge without endogamy and population substructure because of sampling variation, something you have india....

Good post.

We Bangladeshis are damned sexy and distracting at work.

In all seriousness, I think the discrimination of the workers based on their national origin is sad (mimics too closely what is going on here in So Cal with the Mexican immigrants). It's obvious that they fill a much need labor force in Malaysia, and probably get paid much cheaper than whatever their minimum wage should be. And to have Radzi actually quoted on his discrimination practices because they looked like film actors is just really, really, unfortunate.

HHmm.................interesting! and there's nothing wrong with a few sexy fob men if you ask me. bring em on.

Glad that there is finally a story mentioning Bangladeshis. I haven't met many Bangladeshis with eye colors other than browns unless they are sporting colored contacts to look American.

Ultra-high caste Marathi people tend to have hazel or green eyes. Light brown is also fairly common.

omg!!! haa haa haa, that has to be the funniest thing i have ever read! can u imagine the uproar if someone in this admin. said that? jeebus save us from the imbecelic mutterings of politicians. maybe this minister is good friends with pat "isaystupidthingsallthetime" robertson.

in all the years, i have yet to see a bangladeshi with blue eyes. oddly enough, i have seen quite a lot working class people with hazel or even greenish eyes. ;)

Ultra-high caste Marathi people tend to have hazel or green eyes. Light brown is also fairly common.

I dont know what is Ultra-high caste :-) ... but anyways, these are Kokanastha Brahmins of Maharashtra. (Also called Kobra). They also call themselves Chitpavan Brahmins. They are a RECENT MIGRATION to India from West Asia. They have distinct light colored eyes and light skin.

Famous Kobras are model/actor Milind Soman , revolutionaries and freedom fighters such as Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Veer Savarkar, Chafekar brothers etc. and ofcourse movie star Madhuri Dixit

RC, how did (relatively) recent migrants end up as brahmins?

Amitabh,
Read the Wikipedia entry I linked. The fact that amongst Maharastrian population Kobra's are distinctly different looking shows a recent arrival. Their being Brahmin shows that in earlier times the "Brahmin" was a functional classification and not racial one. Later on it did become racial though.
There is no other way of explaining their uniquely distinct appearance.

I have green eyes, but I aslo got some of the bad punjabi genes: tall, chicken legs ,goat-meat fetish, prone to swearing, and horrible co-ordination :).

I have green eyes, but I aslo got some of the bad punjabi genes: tall, chicken legs ,goat-meat fetish, prone to swearing, and horrible co-ordination :).

wow, so that's where the swearing comes form. lol. and i thought it was my brit side. hhmm....tall and chicken legged. i seriously needed more punjabi blood in my family, boy was i cheated!

Amitabh,

I found a genetic study about Chitpawan Brahmins.

Results :
The generated genomic data was compared with putative parental populations- Central
Asians, West Asians and Europeans using AMOVA, PC plot, and admixture estimates.
Overall, disparate uniparental ancestries, and l.1% GST value for biparental markers among
four studied caste populations linked well with their exchequer demographic histories.
Marathi-speaking ancient Desasth-brahmin shows substantial admixture from Central Asian
males but Paleolithic maternal component support their Scytho-Dravidian origin. Chitpavanbrahmin
demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from
West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean
or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also
explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later
amalgamation by Maratha.

So the explanation about them being "Brahmins" was my guess at explaining this curious situation about their recent arrival. Its interesting.

Ok Looks like the link where I got that study didnt appear in the last comment.

Chitpavanbrahmin
demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from
West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean
or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also
explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later
amalgamation by Maratha.

Wow! Undermines the caste system.

Thank you RC. Fascinating.

Thanks RC!

You like tall and chicken legged, Pattie lol?

Malaysia has a manpower shortage, and Bangladeshi men are arriving in Malaysia to fill the gap, to give Malaysia what it needs. There’s nothing to be ashamed of in this - it’s completely natural. Why should the minister object, then?

Illegal bangladeshis go to Malaysia = labour shortage
Illegal bangladeshis go to India = security threat ?

You like tall and chicken legged, Pattie lol?

As long as there's a turban on top, I'm sure Pattie will excuse the bad genes =)

As long as there's a turban on top, I'm sure Pattie will excuse the bad genes =)

meaty, lean, give it fuzz and a dastar and the body wight/hieght don't mean didly!

but yes, tall and chicken legged does have a certain appeal...i know a certain singh with nice skinny legs! ;)

RC,

I don't know whether you did it intentioanally, but calling brahmin Kobra (A snake)is highly derogatory and even bigoted.
I have heard this term in TamilNadu and Maharashtra.
Regards

Gaurav said:

I don't know whether you did it intentioanally, but calling brahmin Kobra (A snake)is highly derogatory and even bigoted.

If you had actually read my post you wouldnt have asked this question. Kobra is short for Kokanastha Brahmin. (Its actually first two symbols of how its written in Devnagari). I have several very close Kobra freinds too.

I don't know whether you did it intentioanally, but calling brahmin Kobra (A snake)is highly derogatory and even bigoted.

This is true. In Tamil Nadu there is a saying :"If you see a Brahmin and a snake, kill the Brahmin."

This is true. In Tamil Nadu there is a saying :"If you see a Brahmin and a snake, kill the Brahmin."

In the Wikipedia link that I posted above about chitpavans .... The first line:

"The Chitpavan, Chitpawan, or Konkanastha Brahmins are a brahmin community of Konkan, the coastal belt of western Maharashtra. Sometimes they are affectionately referred to as Kobras."

"If you see a Brahmin and a snake, kill the Brahmin."

Unbelievable, man!! I cant even believe in this day and age, people still hold those kind of views.

Well Its NOT TRUE for Maharashtra. I dont know about Tamilnadu. Besides Kobra is not Kobra as in the snake, Kobra is the first two symbols of how its written in Devnagari. For example Author/Director P.L.Deshpande is known as Pu La Deshapande in Maharashtra, as Pu and La are the first two symbols of his first and middle name. Although I have not lived in Maharashtra, I have heared the term from my Kobra freinds.

Oh RC, sorry man. I know you had no demonizing intentions at all :-)

Looks like some people still believe in the Myth of Brahminical Hegemony.

M. Nam

Man, if this thing works we'll have desi kudian and desi auntiejis holding protest marches to ban all those girls from the Northeast who have so dramatically improved the pulchritude quotient in Delhi in the last decade.

This is for "Greg on March 14, 2006 04:23 PM "
Shut ur face u fuckin dick...u dont know ur arse from ur elbow

Some Afghans consider themselves Aryans while some theories say they are tribes of Mongol origin. Anyways, the aryan king asoka's edicts are found throughout Afghanistan and Gandhari from Mahabharat was from Gandhar (Kandhar, the place where our Indian Airlines plane was hijacked).
Note: this is not to prove supremacy of Saffron balls (which seems to be in vogue on SP thesedays), just facts from history.

>>"Some Afghans consider themselves Aryans while some theories say they are tribes of Mongol origin."
Both.
the northern aliance fraction is more central asian looking.
While the southern is a mixed bag with iranian and indo-pakistani looking people.

Talking about facial features and color, a lot of south Indians especially in North and coastal Karnataka are central asian looking. I know of two cases of German women came and married South Indian brahmin uncles but I heard Bengali Brahmins are their favourites.

This is lisa from Chittagong,Bangladesh.Chittagong is the largest port city in bangladesh.Various kinds of people can be found in this city.During 17th century a lot of european traders came here and married local women to spread bussiness.One can easily find european looking people here.I myself have blonde hair,green eyes and reddish skin.A lot of portuguese and italian word can be found in the chittagonian[local language] language.Rest of the bangladeshi can not understand this language.Green,blue,hazel eyed people can also be found throughout Bangladesh.Bangladeshi people are the mixture of europoid,alpean,aryan,middle eastern people.

>>"Some Afghans consider themselves Aryans while some theories say they are tribes of Mongol origin."
Both.
the northern aliance fraction is more central asian looking.
While the southern is a mixed bag with iranian and indo-pakistani looking people.

The asian looking ethnic are actually descendant of Mongol origin. The are from Hazara ethnic minority in Afghanistan.

um, afghans can't be judged on what you 'percieve' there are hazaras who look quite pashtun or tajik or uzbek, etc, as well as there are pashtuns who look quite hazara, tajik, etc .... due to the fact that intermarriage between afghans isn't at all uncommon.

and most afghans find it just as insulting to be linked with mongols as others do to be linked with indians (no offense to either groups). We just prefer to be considered what we are, afghans

"The asian looking ethnic are actually descendant of Mongol origin. The are from Hazara ethnic minority in Afghanistan."

just had to add, ALL afghans look quite asian. There is NO stereotypical look for an Asian. ALSO, there are plenty of other ethnic groups (not including ppl who have intermarried, and now identify w/ the father's tribe) who have single eyelid folds - NOT just hazaras - this is not a trait limited to just one ethnic group inside afghanistan. Secondly, if you're going to be talking about AFGHAN history, read a bit more. There is quite a large influence from the turks, not just the mongols, among OTHER groups.

Don't get too excited. Some Malaysian politicians - like yours - are idiots. When they can't think of a reasonable excuse for their racial xenophobia, they will come up with all kinds of shit. This is true even when the dominant muslim UMNO party in the ruling BN coalition wants to justify discrimination against non-muslim Malaysians. Just yesterday a Chinese Malaysian Deputy Minister was accused of not providing jobs for muslim graduates although his portfolio is training - he is not allowed to dictate to the private sector that already has to comply with Govt requirements as to distribution of wealth, etc and the Govt sector is 95% or more muslim Malay. Please visit "Malaysia Today" if you want a good laugh or, if you are a Malaysian, to cry. I left because I did not want to put up with this idiocy and took my first world education to a first world country where I'm happy and secure.I fear for Malaysia because I still have a residual affection for the land of my birth and the people I grew up with.

I'm bangladeshi and my grandma have blue eyes. My mother has hazel eyes, i have light brown eyes. My mother's family originally come from Chitrtagong, so they descend from the Porteugese [I know I spelt that wrong!].

Its very said.
How can they cause social problems if they are helping you by working at construction sites. if you look in to UK, There are millions of illegal immigrants from all over the world but they never said they are creating social problems. everyone is participating in country's ecconomy, doesn't matter if they don't pay much tax.people shouild grow up by now its 21st century or secure your borders, but don't comment so badly to hurt other people.
dr singh
www.drsingh.org.uk

Green eyes do not mean much they are quite common in India. 72% of modern India is pure Aryan. In the ancient times the Aryan was described as a person living in the Indian subcontinent whose colour was from brown to white with specific Indo-Iranian features. This word originated from ancient Indian and Iranian texts.

Most people living in the colder parts of Indian subcontinent have extremly light skin. See this Indian Kashmiri Girl-http://www.delhiteam.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/kashmir_muslim_girl.jpg

See also this Tajik girl-http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/392577802_2a0b852458.jpg?v=0

Now note the similarilty of looks and colour. In this region people in general are fairer than most Europeans.

53 · lisa mourice said

This is lisa from Chittagong,Bangladesh.Chittagong is the largest port city in bangladesh.Various kinds of people can be found in this city.During 17th century a lot of european traders came here and married local women to spread bussiness.One can easily find european looking people here.I myself have blonde hair,green eyes and reddish skin.A lot of portuguese and italian word can be found in the chittagonian[local language] language.Rest of the bangladeshi can not understand this language.Green,blue,hazel eyed people can also be found throughout Bangladesh.Bangladeshi people are the mixture of europoid,alpean,aryan,middle eastern people.

Bangladeshis are also part Dravidian and Chinese and Australoid.

26 · RC said

Ultra-high caste Marathi people tend to have hazel or green eyes. Light brown is also fairly common.

I dont know what is Ultra-high caste :-) ... but anyways, these are Kokanastha Brahmins of Maharashtra. (Also called Kobra). They also call themselves Chitpavan Brahmins. They are a RECENT MIGRATION to India from West Asia. They have distinct light colored eyes and light skin.

Famous Kobras are model/actor Milind Soman , revolutionaries and freedom fighters such as Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Veer Savarkar, Chafekar brothers etc. and ofcourse movie star Madhuri Dixit

However, one thing that I must admit is that many Indian communities have engaged in revisionist history, and they have effectively changed their own pedigree. The Chitpavan Brahmins, on Wikipedia, claim: (1) Berber origins, (2) Egyptian-Greek origins, (3) and Israeli origins. This highlights that they are very ashamed of their own origins.

The common wisdom and the local wisdoms indicate that their origins is from the Portuguese people who ruled there for a while. The Portuguese men intermarried with the local woman.

Very interesting to read thoughts on Chitpavans indeed!

I am a chitpavan and frankly I don't know what our origins are. I am a 100% kobra - and by that all I mean is that my ancestors on paternal and maternal sides of my family were Chitpavans to as long as I can go (17th century). However, it is indeed true that many of my family members look very different than the "typical" look from the Indian sub-continent. My mother gets confused for a european person but my father is very dark. There are lots of people within my family that have light eyes - blue, green, hazel. My daughter has amazing blue eyes - I am sure partly because my wife is French but I know that I carry that gene since I know my relatives and mother have it.

I have observed similar kind of pattern in other chitpavan families. The Imperial Gazette in the 18th or 19th century published a description of Chitpavans that says "we have nordic features" and are employed as spies.

Almost all Chitpavan families have a "kulvrutanta" - a book that documents their ancestry as much as is know.

Even the word "chitpavan" has conflicting meanings:
- one thought is that it means someone who has been brought back to life/purified by fire. One old story I heard is that we are descended from people found on the konkan coast.
- another story says that many have origins in Chitpol and hence the name

My ancestors migrated from the konkan coast into interior Maharashtra in the 19th century - however, we were always looked on as "different". Our staple diet is slightly different from the "rest" of the inhabitants of Maharashtra.

A few years back someone was sponsoring free DNA testing if you had chitpavan surname but I didn't do it.

A few years back someone was sponsoring free DNA testing if you had chitpavan surname but I didn't do it.