curry-tinted costumes

Huh...WTF?

What color might that be?

What color might that be?

The colour of haldi stains ?

The colour of haldi stains ?

Wow, I should go stain all my suits and lehngas with haldi so I can be cool too.

Yea me brown man.. wearing curry coloring clothing and having bringing rope tricks to this country. Me have 3 cows in home village and 4 snakes on my neck. Be scarce or I cast a spell on ya.

>>The colour of haldi stains...

chequered with dried mango paste and polka-dots from neem oil.

>>brilliantly colored street signs of India...

Must be something new. Even during my last visit I hardly saw street signs.

M. Nam

OT: has anyone ever noticed that haldi stains on a countertop, when attacked with certain spray cleaners (like fantastik) sometimes turn blood red? In my apartment in NY my roommate had a bottle of fantastik, and every now and then I would use it when I ran out of mine to clean up the kitchen, and man, it was scary. At home I use 7th generation, and there's no problem, and I've never felt like buying other cleansers to do the experiment more carefully, but I figured you people might know.

Turmeric turns strong red brown in a 'basic' solution... (basic as in acid, neutral and base --> chemistry 101)

Tell me more about the aesthetic transgressions of Jai Uttal. I've never heard of him...

Turmeric turns strong red brown in a 'basic' solution...

It also turns light yellow in an acidic medium... hence the nice color of lemon rice...(to be eaten before curd rice, of course) -> southie veggie cooking 101

OT: has anyone ever noticed that haldi stains on a countertop, when attacked with certain spray cleaners (like fantastik) sometimes turn blood red? In my apartment in NY my roommate had a bottle of fantastik, and every now and then I would use it when I ran out of mine to clean up the kitchen, and man, it was scary. At home I use 7th generation, and there's no problem, and I've never felt like buying other cleansers to do the experiment more carefully, but I figured you people might know.

OMG.........that is TOO funny. but too true.

It also turns light yellow in an acidic medium... hence the nice color of lemon rice...(to be eaten before curd rice, of course) -> southie veggie cooking 101

mmm...sure right when i'm contemplating what to make for dinner, and i have everone ask when we eat. lol.....

Pure exotica... Chicago is hell. We're in bad shape.

ok...about jai uttal....i have to ask the dumb question of the moment number 65432757570....

is this one of those people who take on an indian name because they think it's cool, and then think they're like god's gift to india just because they hear words like 'kirtan' and 'yoga', etc. and then think they're gonna be some real cool hippy/hippie dude with this stuff...or does he have any credo? because i'm about to laugh my bum off...bless him for his interest, but then again, he also makes me think of steve urkel and his love of polkas. it's just not a cool image. and i love my polkas as much a si do my bhangra, and they coexist happily in my little world, but...well..you get the idea...

By the power of Lola Kutty... Puliyogarai and the creators of Yellow Food

All this talk about yellow food is making me hungry. If I were into advertising for the MTR brand, I would have an old lady prepare puliyogarai with lots of turmeric and play the song "Yellow" in the background.

Look at the stars, Look how they shine for you, And everything you do, Yeah they were all yellow,

So then I took my turn
Oh all the things I've done
And it was all yellow

And then the fire alarm goes off because of smoke and my neighbour will complain about the smell.

ookk........

The Share Guide: With the Pagan Love Orchestra, the group of musicians you work with, it seems you have drawn together musicians with a similar goal. They must all like chanting or they wouldn't be interested?

Jai: Exactly. There are many different musicians that work with me at the kirtans also.

I'm officialy scared. The PAGAN LOVE ORCHESTRA????????????

W-T-F is "curry-tinted" ?!!!! which curry? what is "curry"?

In defense of Jai Uttal: all I know about him is what I've heard of his music on my internet-music-service-of-choice. He's got some nice-sounding rock-adaptations of Bhajans (atleast I think that's what it is); I don't know what it means but it sounds pretty good to my ears.

I believe good things can come from orientalist/naive/exotifying explorations of other cultures and musical styles. I'm thinking of Delibes' Lakme duet or Zeppelin's Kashmir for example.

i'd still give him a listen...just not take him too seriosuly. ;)

Sorry, OT:

Turmeric turns strong red brown in a 'basic' solution... (basic as in acid, neutral and base --> chemistry 101)

W-T-F is "curry-tinted" ?!!!! which curry? what is "curry"?

Manish, the highlighting in your quotatation says it all. This article makes no attempt to hide its Orientalism.

There are moments when it feels like you are watching a traveling troupe that has set up shop in the center of an Indian village, and you half expect a cow or water buffalo to wander through

This is exactly the motivation behind the play. People have these romantic notions of cows and buffaloes strolling past them in rustic and exotic surroundings: ripe enough to lay the setting for "I am-so-angelina-united-nations-jolie" drama, thanks to the much sensationalized "good-samaritans-falling-in-love" movies. Pick any of the movies set in Africa, you get the picture.

And by the way, don't even get me started on the fusion fappery churned out by the musicians who think that since they have met for over naan and tandoori chicken, they might as well collaborate and make music. This music is made for the dingleberries at Grammy awards shows. You put the CD into the tray and remove it less than 60 seconds. Fusion simply does not work. All the nonsense about East+West khichidi Kitsch is "Freddie Got Fingered" bad.

Does the word "curry" exist in any South Asian language?

Does the word "curry" exist in any South Asian language?

The word curry demands a thread just to clarify the various connotations. It is huge. Curry, is borderline euphemism for anything Indian. It most likely is a coin termed by a wannabe indophile to differentiate himself/herself from the garden variety crowd. If you want to sound creative but not give the impression that you have no freakin clue as to what something means in an Indian context, add the word curry to it. It is as simple as that.

For example:

[*] To prove you support multiculturalism, simply use curry 4 times in the article.
[*] To prove Indians are accepted in UK, show pictures of boards that start with curry and chutney.

This whole curry nonsense is packaged and marketed in the UK. I don't see the curry angle in the US though.

By the way before people get all literary and James-Liptonish, "curry-tinted" makes no sense. The guy is a charlatan.

In Bangla the word 'torcurry' means dishes with a lot of gravy, while 'bhaji' means a dish that has been fried and is somewhat dry. The other one is 'bhoona' I think, and it means something in the middle, i.e it started off with lots of gravy but then excessively heated so it becomes like a paste.

Torkari means it was cooked in a tarka, stir fried, as it were, and then a very little water added, no relation of "curry" I'm happy to assert. Bhaji is batter- or crumb-fried.

Bhaji is batter- or crumb-fried.

"I am-so-angelina-united-nations-jolie"

I suppose the only other derivation might be from the word "karhi" which I understand is a besan-flour based gravy (corrections welcome!)? Is this the same as torcurry? Apart from that..of course that *not* what we call desi food *rolls eyes*..

Jai Uttal is good. As good as Krishna Das. Almost as much fun as Wah! But then I love this whole genre of rock n roll bhajans. Jai Uttal has done some very nice stuff under the Buddha Bar label as well.

In Bangla the word 'torcurry' means dishes with a lot of gravy, while 'bhaji' means a dish that has been fried and is somewhat dry. The other one is 'bhoona' I think, and it means something in the middle, i.e it started off with lots of gravy but then excessively heated so it becomes like a paste.

In Bangla, 'torcurry' means literally 'your curry'. It's true, look it up.

I believe the word "curry" is derived from "kari leaf", also known as "curry leaf," a common ingredient in S. Indian cuisine.

By this reasoning, "curry-tinted" = green. But I doubt that's what the author meant.

Tell me more about the aesthetic transgressions of Jai Uttal.

I don't particularly dislike Uttal, he just does water-thin, lite rock bhajans. It's for the easy listening world music demographic. When you first hear his pop bhajans, you think, 'Wow, Peter Gabriel-esque,' but as the songs wear on, there's no punch, no payoff. You're already at the interesting premise of bhajan meets rock, the twin ecstasies of religious revival and rock 'n roll, now do something with it, man. He's the Muzak of mild mysticism.

What the Anglosphere calls 'curry,' and what it really means...

flygirl:

Apart from that..of course that *not* what we call desi food *rolls eyes*..

PropaMc:

In Bangla, 'torcurry' means literally 'your curry'. It's true, look it up.

Only if you have warped pronunciation ;) (there is a diff between thor (rhyming with floor) curry and torkari). Actually, I just remembered, in Dhaka there are a lot of men who carry baskets full of veges door to door and yell 'aye torkari! torkari!' so I guess it is also a synonym for 'shobji'/vegetables. ugh. I give up.

I was trying to be funny, but since this is causing you grief here's the entry from the Bengali-English dictionary:

torkari (n.): kitchen vegetables, garden stuff; vegetable curry. torkari bagan: a kitchen garden.

water-thin, lite rock bhajans

Aren't all bhajans like that though? That is, aren't you subjecting him to a tougher standard b/c he's white?

Actually, I just remembered, in Dhaka there are a lot of men who carry baskets full of veges door to door and yell 'aye torkari! torkari!' so I guess it is also a synonym for 'shobji'/vegetables. ugh. I give up

To help a bit- in hindi tarkari = green vegetables. So i'd guess torkari means the same in bangla too.

I was trying to be funny, but since this is causing you grief here's the entry from the Bengali-English dictionary

(P.S: I was being sarcastic too)

I believe the word "curry" is derived from "kari leaf", also known as "curry leaf," a common ingredient in S. Indian cuisine.

Nina: I was also under the impression that "curry" and "kari leaf" ("karivepilla" in malayalam) had something to do with each other. But a more proficient malayalam-speaker than myself tells me that they don't. "Kari" means burned and "vepilla" means leaf (i think). The idea is that the function of the karivapilla is to be burnt during cooking and then thrown away.

But I do believe that today in Tamilnadu "curry" is used as a generic term for various kinds of dishes with gravy : Kai(vegetable)-curry, Mottai(egg)-curry, Erichi(meat)-curry. Help me out tamil and malayalam speakers... So while curry as a generic term grates on the ears of hindi-speakers, it doesn't sound so bad to tamil speakers. These commenters at 3QD agree.

But "curry-tinted" ? That makes no sense at all..

Aren't all bhajans like that though?

Jesus Krishna, the exact opposite. Aren't all kirtans weak and unintense?

Boy, get thee to a Hindu revival.

i do love manish's pin the tail on the orientalist posts...or, throw daggers at the ori- well, you get the idea.

and I second #38. *what* have you been listening to?!...

What the Anglosphere calls 'curry,' and what it really means...

But for those who might still be interested, this may be a useful article: Reading Communities and Culinary Communities: The Gastropoetics of the South Asian Diaspora. It's a PDF, and if you don't want to read the whole thing, the bit about curry is on the 4th page (474).

"Gastropoetics" is my new favorite word :)

Thanks, Shruti. I'm letting mom know she does gastropoetry.

gastropoetry? nice. i also like geoculinary

Jesus Krishna, the exact opposite. Aren't all kirtans weak and unintense?

Boy, get thee to a Hindu revival.

Heh. I had a random Jai Uttal CD in my posession b/c someone left it in my car once. I remember thinking he had a few nice hooks and touches, but was nothing special. the pagan love orchestra name annoyed me. he's rather more enamored of his own voice than he ought to be.

I will say that the real point of bhajans has nothing to do with the music, and the best recordings are often quite thin at first glance. . .some of my favorite recordings are personal ones involving nothing more than a handheld tape recorder, some kartals, a drum, and a seemingly scratchy voice--but they're worth their weight in rubies to me.

That said there are some damn fine non-desi bhajan singers out there, with astonishingly rich voices that smoothly flow from honey to thunder and back again. One of the best ones I know this side of the pacific is neither desi nor white, but African-American.

OT again: Parikshit you are my hero! That is so interesting. Of course, now I've totally lost myself in cyberhypercavicunicucunctatalinkus learning that turmeric's active ingreding cumerin is a phenol, and that phenols are pH indicators b/c the hydrogen ion changes their configuration. What I can't figure out for the life of is _what_ exactly is changing in their structure so they change color. Are we talking absorption and transmission/reflection? fluorescent emission? what's changing to change the frequency? someobody who knows about spectroscopy and organic molecules rescue me please!

Curry, in non-Brahmin Tamil, means meat. Curry, in Brahmin Tamil, means fried veggies. Fried veggies in non-Brahmin Tamil is poriyal (meaning fry). Does anyone know of any exceptions to this?

Fusion simply does not work.

I have to politely disagree. Two notable examples:

1. Nitin Sawnhey.
2. Bhai Dya Singh (Australiawale). {see here and here}

Fusion simply does not work.

I have to politely disagree. Two notable examples:

1. Nitin Sawnhey.
2. Bhai Dya Singh (Australiawale).

Agreed! I'd add Midival Punditz and Afro Celt Sound System (not brown...but still great music)

I know Jai Uttal personally. We met in India at an ashram and that was the first time for me to see his total devotion to his Guru via his music. We later met a few years later at his home in Berkely where I got to see his passion and devotion to music from close quarters. Haven't seen him for sometime now, he's been quite busy doing music tours all the time.

an amazon.com reader comments on jai uttal:

Jai opens a gate to the lower Beriatic World and Bliss descends upon the hearer's consciousness like a gentle rain. Addictive!

wtf is the lower beriatic world? and are there water buffaloes there?

water-thin, lite rock bhajans

Aren't all bhajans like that though? That is, aren't you subjecting him to a tougher standard b/c he's white

umm, did anyone else see this one?

OF COURSE HE GETS SUBJECTED TO A "TOUGHER STANDARD" BECAUSE HE'S A CURRY-AND-KRISHNA-LOVING INDO-FETISH-HAVING WHITE BOY!!! Not like this is the first time any of us have seen this... please. Our culture(s) is(are) constantly appropriated and regurgitated, sometimes back to us but usually to the white world, by white "artists" who are more or less co-optation specialists. This is old news. I'd like to see some more tough standards and less passive acceptance of this trend... and it's more than just an irritation, it's a microcosm of colonization. Our shit is stolen and a white person profits, and then we crowd around him trying to protect him. This is not a natural cultural exchange, the likes of which has always occurred between communities in contact. There's no sharing happening; it's one-way.

This is not a natural cultural exchange, the likes of which has always occurred between communities in contact.

"I am-so-angelina-united-nations-jolie"

>

Bhai Dya Singh (Australiawale).
Midival Punditz

woohhooo! cheers, smiles!

lower Beriatic World

uumm......sure doesn't sound like it belongs with bliss.

It may be tasteless (and taste is subjective) and/or offensive, but it is "natural" and such things have in fact "always occurred between communities in contact." The intermingling of artistic traditions isn't always a fluffybunny mutual-respect everyone's-economically-and-socially-equal oppression-does-not-exist thing. In fact it almost never is.

Yes, assimilation and acculturation are almost inevitable at the point of contact between cultures, but I don't understand who/what you are defending by admitting to the power structures involved in the change and creation of cultures.

Are you the Nina Paley whose website your screen name links to?

I don't understand who/what you are defending by admitting to the power structures involved in the change and creation of cultures.

Our shit is stolen and a white person profits

That said, I have to admit Jai Uttal's album covers (I haven't heard his music) do seem to trade on a particularly shallow exoticism, catering to an ignorant market without challenging to broaden understanding. But then, plenty of brown artists market themselves to Americans the same way - Deepak Chopra comes to mind (although he's not an artist), and then there are those S. Asian chick-lit novels Manish regularly criticizes. Sucky art, selling out, trading on and maintaining ignorance - these are worthy of criticism regardless of the perps' ethnicity.

there are issues of white privledge though. i think that's where people's complaints are stemming from, though they often do not articulate those sentiments so well. it certainly never is "a fluffybunny mutual-respect everyone's-economically-and-socially-equal oppression-does-not-exist thing," but that doesn't mean we just ignore those issues of privledge. when artists (or anybody for that matter) ignore, or worse, deny, those issues, it's just seen as flagrant disrepect.

Aren't all bhajans like that though?

wah? music interested in divine presence sung for hundreds years is water-thin? dude bhajans are intense, i feel sorry for anybody who hears muzak when they hear a bhajan. its like, yeah, that tupac....he was so sedate wasn't he?

cultural appropriation....complicated topic, made more complicated by the presence of hegemonic dynamics. not either or.

Was Yoda cultural appropriation? jhumpa lahiri? Bhangra?

but when a dude does what 5 million people are already doing, and he gets all the credit....that just seems way too much like the real world don't it? and who wants that in their music when they can get that at work

there are issues of white privledge though.

when artists (or anybody for that matter) ignore, or worse, deny, those issues, it's just seen as flagrant disrepect.

to say color and class priviledge are seperate issues is probably something you'd have to back up with evidence. color and class are often inter-twinned in american history

color and class are often inter-twinned in american history

to say color and class priviledge are seperate issues is probably something you'd have to back up with evidence

i'm not the one maing the original claim. you've put out a lot of assertions to back up your position, and i'm asking you if you have proof. they're your claims in the first place, no?

we have to have a scope of discussion, if you want to talk about the inter-section of color and class in worls history, i agree, there's quite a lot of places we can go. personally i'd be interested in looking at brasil.

you briefly reference that color and class are less inter-twinned now than 200 years ago. How do you think has taken place? does it happen as an inexorable process that just continues as time goes on? For that matter, how un-twinned is it at a time when young black men are not being educated, or employed, but jailed.

i wouldn't say, and am not saying you don't have a point, but right now it seems like you're throwing out any old commentin order to defend what seem to be hurt feelings when people legitatemly point out their experience regarding being on the other side of priviledge

what's up with the arts and priviledge, i'd be up for that discussion.

"Who is ignoring or denying these issues? Is every artist supposed to apologise for their privledges every time they make art? Or only white artists?"

well, the fact that you're getting so defensive when people do bring up race issues seems to suggest some denial on your part. your sarcastic remark also suggests that. no one has to apologize for anything, but the fact is that we do live a world with obvious racial heiarchies. i understand that you're influenced by indian culture, i don't think that there's anything wrong with that. however, some people will get upset by your work because sometimes it just seems like white people can just pick and choose what they like from other cultures, while everyone else has to hide who they are until it's accepted by western society (i.e. white people). people are troubled by that. you don't have to apologize for your work, but i think people just want you to acknowledge that you have white privledge. because we don't all get to live in a colorblind world.

personally i don't want anyone to apologize for anything. if someone wants to, go ahead, but _wanting_ someone to apologize is a losing proposition, as its not likely to be genuine. personally i'm not upset by priviledge, or try not to be. if you think about it, many of us have priviledge in some way or another. if you're a dude, yeah you know we can walk around every day being consumed by the need to apologize for our priviledge. especially if we're desi. to me its got to be a genuine thing you try to rectify as you can. i've never seen your work Nina and part of me feels based on your comments here, you're taking offense when none might be meant toward you. i can't see that based on your comments you would be insensitive or trample over desis in order to get your art out there. it doesn't seem to be you.

you briefly reference that color and class are less inter-twinned now than 200 years ago. How do you think has taken place?

does it happen as an inexorable process that just continues as time goes on?

For that matter, how un-twinned is it at a time when young black men are not being educated, or employed, but jailed.

Anyway, I've gotten all argumentative based on the comments of one racialist (Yeti), and I do I agree with this:

cultural appropriation....complicated topic, made more complicated by the presence of hegemonic dynamics. not either or.

well, the fact that you're getting so defensive when people do bring up race issues seems to suggest some denial on your part.

This isn't limited to Desi news. Here's the Chinese version: http://www.thatsbj.com/blog/index.php/2004/12/28/fill_in_the_blanks

But young black men born to class priviledge are not denied education or employment. Many very successful black Americans are descended from slaves. For whatever reason, they obtained class privledge, and their skin color does not bar them from enjoying it. Racism still exists in the US, but it pales in comparison to class issues.

Sucky art, selling out, trading on and maintaining ignorance - these are worthy of criticism regardless of the perps' ethnicity.

For instance, I don't like Madhur Jaffrey. Her success (the class difference you're talking about) is based on how well she is able to accommodate the desires of her audience--and her audience is not South Asian people, it is white Western cosmopolitan people. So it is not the majority of South Asia that is allowed to judge the translatioin of their own cultures becauese their voice has little value in the global market. Rather, it is the few wealthy Indians, such as Jaffrey, that are allowed this privilege. These Indians, in turn, are wealthy precisely because they are able to feed the Orientalist appetite. But where did this appetite come from? The Orient didn't create Orientalism, which then created the Western imagination of the Orient. It is a racist legacy that South Asians like Jaffrey are simply using for profit. South Asians still suffer, and white people still don't. Sorry if I'm being redundant at this point, but I'm just a bit irked.

how would you know about the ways in which living in brown skin affects our ability to cross class and gender barriers? I'm not saying that you have not experienced racism. But you should not assume, from your experience with racism as a white person, that you can understand the racism that people of color face as part of various colonial/imperial legacies. I'm not telling a brown person's sob story here, I'm just saying our experiences with racism are different based on our races. Please understand that.

It is not the place of white people to appropriate the struggles of people of color.

I still stand by my assertion that race takes a backseat to class as an obstacle in the US. Everyone commenting on this board has access to a computer and is literate - we all enjoy some class priveledge. What does it mean to the disenfranchised when a priveledged middle-class non-white person insists race is a bigger issue than class? We won't find out here, since those without our class priveledge don't have access to this discussion. People of all races can chime in, but the very poor and illiterate can't.

On a more personal note, please take my arguments with a grain of salt - this is one of those threads where I'm partial to both sides, even as I argue one. People are making very good points here. Respek. And thanks for letting me argue here.

Shruti's point is a good one that South Asian class priviledge is mediated by their race de-priviledge. The many examples pointing out the hackneyed cliche in many desi-american books is a good example. Like Shruti said, using Orientalist ideas to get money will get you class priviledge, but what was the cost? Quite a lot of desi parents spent a lot of time trying to get money, and many did this while specifically with the hope that money would buy them some respect. Respect that was lacking because of their skin color. I think this is still a problem for South Asians. Our respect as South Asians is somewhat tenous. It could easily change with the whims of other influences, as it has in the past. Japanese Americans went from having class priviledge to being locked up. It's quite easy for the sand to shift below our feet even with a certain (limited) class priviledge. I also disagree that class priviledge pales in comparision to race, but hey, maybe there's evidence for it.

I still stand by my assertion that race takes a backseat to class as an obstacle in the US.

agreed.

but heaven forfend that a bunch of upper-middle class, top-tier-educated desi kids whose parents are all professionals cop to that. if they did, they'd have to acknowledge that they have very little in common with the struggles of all those pesky 7-11 workers, gas station attendants and cab drivers who aren't privileged yet are the same race.

i understand what nina's opponents are attempting to say about colonization and appropriation in this discussion, but i do not admire the ham-handed way in which they are doing so. arguing with nina paley is like screaming at annie besant for british shittiness during the raj. yes, jai uttal and exoticists blow porn star cock, but this isn't some club where only desis are allowed to make a brilliant cartoon which provides a lushly-drawn, feminist interp of the ramayana. did some desi cartoonist do that? no. and that's okay, because someone respectful who is down, who just happens to be white did. frankly, i think the world would be a much sadder place without "sita sings the blues".

i don't know where you get that people are yelling, ham-handed, yeah. but aruging with Nina? where does that come from?

who wrote anything about not being up to talk about class priviledge of "upper middle class desis"? "pesky" 7-11 workers? you're totally off.

"because someone respectful who is down, who just happens to be white did. frankly, i think the world would be a much sadder place without "sita sings the blues"."

i think you mentioned an important word, respect. i think indians/desis need to pick and choose their fights based on this word. yes, there is some exotification and orientalism by both desis and non-desis. this will always happen when translating someone else's culture or even your own sometimes. but it is important to distinguish between, as someone else pointed out, naive but respectful intentions that result in basically harmless, "good" (for lack of a better word) "exotification" and knowingly disrespectful, harmful exotification with mean intentions and that seeks to make fun of something. for example, indians exotify and occidentalize western culture in their own way, but usually (but not always) in a naive way not driven by disrespect or bad intentions.

i went to a yoga retreat once that was full of basically white people. they sang bhajans and we few indians felt a bit out of place (and that bugged me, to be honest, because i felt "this is my culture.") but their intent was good and it would have been ungracious to point out that their bhajans were not as up to par. however, i have heard stories of other places where white yoga practioners basically treat indians like outsiders. this is the sort of appropriation that is more worrisome. a buddhist friend from Korea experienced the same at a buddhist prayer group in the united states. she was the only non-white buddhist and they made her feel very unwelcome. she felt they had appropriated her tradition and were altering it from its roots and making it very exclusivist.

i can't see that based on your comments you would be insensitive or trample over desis in order to get your art out there. it doesn't seem to be you.

this is what i wrote, which is similiar to what you wrote

also, when you talk about race and class in the US and what kind of factor it is, its always going to raise questions in my mind when a person choose one over the other. its just such a knee jerk thing to take on side over the other because of someone's position. can you ignore that black men are not only black but poor. Have you looked at the enrollment rate of Latinos at the University of Texas-Austin? Its ridiculous how few Latinos go there, or Berkeley for that matter.

i took pains to make this less about Nina and more about the contention that somehow we're living in world in which race and class are not more combined than Nina was making it out to be. The part "upper middle class desis" play in this scenario? Its like blasting the Korean grocery store owner for being in LA. Its such a salon discussion statement to excoriate upper middle class desis and all the class priviledge they have as if we're actually relevent to the most prominent discussions going on in this debate. its like being yelling at Apu for the fact the only Latino in Springfield is a costumed bumble bee. Yeah, cos its Apu's fault

the parrallels between the scape-goating of relevtively affluent Sikhs in India is striking. As a minority population in India, the economic advantage of prosperity helps to secure them a modicum of safety in calm times. But if you look at who perpetrated the Dehli riots, it was a lot of poor people who were angry that the Sikh middle man had some prosperity

and by the way, a lot of Sikh american families have people in them who work at convience stores and those with "degrees" at top schools, so its not so cut and dried

f-ing internet

Nina was certainly not exotifying the Ramayana. I'd say Amar Chithra Katha's Ramayana would seem more exotic to most people.

But I think this discussion would do very well without reference to Nina's race or even her work, which, while great, is irrelevant to this post.

Nina, you too, didn't need to state that you are Jewish. Your view about the Hitler Cross incident would be equally welcome/important, no matter what your religion.

In fact, this is one of the best things about the 'net. Arguments can be weighed for the their inherent worth, not for who's making them.

reference to Nina's race or even her work, which, while great, is irrelevant to this post.

Gdansk!

Sorry, got threads mixed up. This is what happens, Larry, when you several SM threads simultaneously with tabbed browsing.

Apologies for my multiple comments in this thread and the tone of some of them. It was a lesson (hopefully) learned!