April 02, 2006
Girls, Girls, GirlsProfiles
I’ve always been one of those girls that scoured mainstream beauty/fashion mags to see if there was a desi face within the pages. Of course, I was constantly disappointed. While thumbing through Jane Magazine’s April issue (print edition only) this weekend, I surprisingly found two. These two women were profiled in a list of “30 under 30,” basically, 30 cool women under the age of 30…
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Miss Congeniality |
Kashish Chopra, 22 - Washington D.C. Real Estate Agent; openly gay; Miss Congeniality at the 2003 Miss India pageant. “People would tell me how they were born gay but didn’t know how to come to terms with their personal or cultural identity. But they shouldn’t be afraid of it, because they are not alone.” (p104)Alpana Singh, 29 - Chicago. Youngest female master sommelier in the country (and one of only 16 in the world). “It’s like, you can see Scarlett Johansson having wine, whereas Tara Reed is doing shots of tequila. Do you want to be Scarlett or Tara?” (p121)
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She Likes Her Wine |
- M.I.A, 28, rapper. - I had to do it. You knew it was coming. She was the first woman I saw perform on a live late-night TV talk show. Does this SM mascot even need a bio update on this site? [link].
- Parminder Nagra, 30 actress. - Of the Bend it Like Beckham fame, as well as on E.R. “She was nominated for a 2006 Asian Excellence Award, in the category of Outstanding Female Television Performance, for her work in ER.”[link]
- Sunny Leone - 23 ‘actress.’ “…is the first performer of Indian descent (her parents were born in the Indian state of Punjab) to become a Vivid Girl.” NSFW [link]
- Rasika Mathur - 26, comedian. A brown lady that is shaking her butt on MTV in a not typical MTV-type way - on Nick Cannon’s improv show Wild ‘N Out. [link]
- Mohini Bhardwaj - 27, gymnast.Won a Silver Medal for the U.S. gymnastics team in the 2004, and was India Abroad’s Person of the Year in 2005. [link]
- Aliya Deri - 13, Spelling Bee Competitor. She came in second at Scripps’ 2005 National Spelling Bee. “Aliya plays violin, viola, and piano and is a member of two orchestras. Her other pastimes include Indian dance and Tai Chi.” [link]
All these women to me represent ‘Desi Women Firsts’ in so many ways. There are so many more women under the age of 30 that have done amazing things in their respective fields that I know I am leaving out (unintentionally), and many more I had thought of that were just beyond the ‘under 30’ bracket. These are just a handful of the women I’ve come across that are cool, young, and desi.Who would you list?
taz on April 2, 2006 10:29 PM in Profiles · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Sunny Leone - 23 'actress.' " is the first performer of Indian descent (her parents were born in the Indian state of Punjab) to become a Vivid Girl.".
assimilation should only go so far! the body is a temple and stuff.
Do they have to be under 30? I nominate Jhumpa Lahiri, although I'm pretty sure she's over 30.
What about the latest super-younger literary sensation, Kaavya Viswanathan? She'd barely written a sentence, and was still an undergrad at (wouldn'tcha know it) Harvard, when she was the subject of a furious bidding war and ended up with something along the lines of a half a mil advance for her first novel. The result, How Opal Mehta Got Kissed, Got Wild, and Got A Life is pure chick lit, but got favorable reviews for being among the smartest in that genre.
Hmmmm....personally I am not sure that Sunny Leone is much of a role model - I think desi girls can do well and be independent without going to porn!
I think desi girls can do well and be independent without going to porn!
amen! (exclusion for lesbian porn of course)
Don't get me wrong, I don't think bad of Sunny Leone for what she does - good luck to her, and I admire her doing what she wants with her body. But I think desi girls can be independent and successful and sassy without doing porn! Call me old fashioned because I know you are supposed to be blase about porn these days like it's no big thing, but hey, I guess I am old fashioned then - I don't really see taking your clothes off and having sex in front of a camera as a particularly great thing to hold up as a career or a role model for desi girls in America.
I dont agree with Amrita's comments w.r.t Sunny. Its not that she went into porn industry for acceptance or to be different. She went and took the industry like a storm. Its about doing what she felt comfortable to do. Just a few hundred years back, devdasis were offered to temple who are later used by royalty and nobility as objects of porn. Those women didnt have a choice, whereas this woman did. I think thats what matters - the power to choose.
Prasad
Cool - but would you like it if your daughter went into porn? For me, that is my criteria for being a role model. And I would not like my daughter to go into porn. All the other women in the list are great - independent, successful, sexy, strong, doing something different from the norm. But if I wouldn't want my daughter doing that kind of thing, I personally would not regard her as a role model for desi girls.
Parminder Nager
typo alert. Nagra.
When faced with that pointe blanc Q, I wouldnt know how to respond. If and when I have a daughter, I can only hope to instill confidence and independance in her so that when she becomes an adult she would choose what is right for her. If at that time, she finds Sunny as her role model, probably I will have to just suck up the reality and accept. Its not like we are going to show Sunny's naked picture to a 12 yr old and tell her - 'beti, look at her', with glazed eyes. Likewise, you dont tell your 14 yr old kid that it is OK to be gay; if and when the shit hits the fan, we just need to be prepared to grab the umbrella :)
Personally, I dont see Sunny any different than Nandita Das (or any other actress who'd shed clothes in front camera or off camera for that matter) - since we are all aware of certain thing called casting couch.
a pedantic note, the term "role model" did not show up in taz's original post. a point of shading, but i think important. people differ. i do not grant that being a porn actress would be something most individuals could handle very well, but, there is variation and some people might not have issues with it for whatever reason. it might be the right choice for sunny without being the right choice for our daughters or future daughters.
btw, on a slight OT note, the porn star taylor rain does not perform in interracial scenes because her father opposes it. when i first read that i was struck by the bizarro sensibility here: "sure honey, get DPed, but only by men of our race!" there is a wide range of morality under god's heaven, though some more commmon than others.
There are tons of women who passed the 30 mark who blazed trails long before such lists came out....off the top of my head...
Bhairavi Desai (Taxiworkers Alliance in NYC)
DJ Rekha (no introduction necessary)
Sonal Shah (Indicorps and immense humanitarian work)
The founders of Sakhi (established in 1989)
The founders of Manavi (established in 1985)
Geeta Citygirl (Salaam)
Is this the first time DPed has been used in verb form on Sepia Mutiny?
We've gone hazaar mainstream, yaar.
Not true Razib. She confessed on Howard Stern that she HAD without telling her father.
[disclaimer: I hate Stern. I learned this by watching 5 minutes of Stern's T.V. show which happened to have Rain on it the one and only time I watched. She was fine. I'm not made of stone.]
Kavita Ramchandran, who created the cute animated kid's short Happy Holi Maya.
She confessed on Howard Stern that she HAD without telling her father.
ok, i've heard that tale. my point was that it is a rather bizarre dad who is more concerned with the race of her sexual partners rather than the video-taping of the act :)
I remember reading an article a long time ago about sexual trauma and one of the things it mentioned was that very often porn stars only own up to being miserable about their work about 20 years after the fact. In their early years they talk about how in control of their lives they are and how great it's going. It's decades later that they begin to admit even to themselves how abused and powerless they actually felt the whole time. Of course not everybody would go through this syndrome but it seems very plausible.
Hey! MIA is British peeps, please find your own desi stars. She belongs to us :)
Wait a sec, so does Parminder. Ermm... so yeah - go find your own!
this is a great girlie post - thanks taz! :)
I found alpana singh really fascinating, being a bit of a wannabe wine aficionado myself...here's a interesting interview with her where her boss "swears that of the four years he's worked with her, he's only seen her have to actually taste the wine five times to identify it"....wow! I can't imagine having that sort of pallete!
Also Aliya Deri not Aliya Der.
And you might want to add this previous post link :
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/001669.html
Also doesn't one of the links deserve a NSFW warning ?
are offices open on sunday? if you are working on sunday i'm assuming you have your own office....
I kinda wish they chose a better quote for Ms. Singh. The whole "tequila shots of tequila" phrase bothers me. I mean, would one to tequila shots of vodka? But this is just me picking nits. Kudos to both of them.
Is that directed at me ? If it is : yes, grad student offices are open all the time.
But of course I was prempting the complaints that are going to come in tomorrow morning.
They're beautiful!
Amrita -
Would you be proud if your daughter grew up to be a condoleeza rice ?
i say, r.t.a., u seems to be well versed in .. um. the porn industry
Awesome work Taz. Actually when I go through magazines I kind of hope to see a desi face in there too so it's good to see that desi women are appearing more often in the media.
Expose,
thats hitting below the belt... now i wont be able to sleep.. .what if my future daughter one day tells me they are a republican, or worse, that they watch pat robertson and listen to that fat dude with the drugs problem who is parodied in the simpsons...
or worse, join the nra...
brrrrr..
Janeofalltrades (#13):
YES!
u seems to be well versed in .. um. the porn industry
i like precise facts :) so i've done research. do you want me to give you a probability distribution of DPs in american porn? (the skewness is so strong in europorn that there's no point).
[disclaimer: I hate Stern. I learned this by watching 5 minutes of Stern's T.V. show which happened to have Rain on it the one and only time I watched. She was fine. I'm not made of stone.]
Abhi, you're hilarious! :-D
2/30 isn't a bad show. ..that's what, 6, almost 7%? That's not bad representation at all.
these girls are cool. good luck to them!
I think desi girls can do well and be independent without going to porn!
amen! (exclusion for lesbian porn of course)
eewwwwwwww.....amen to the first half, but man....lesbians are cool but eewww ewwww eeewww to lesbian porn. eeeewww. gagggggggg.....ack ack...bleecccchhhh....
anyhoo...
I dont agree with Amrita's comments w.r.t Sunny. Its not that she went into porn industry for acceptance or to be different. She went and took the industry like a storm. Its about doing what she felt comfortable to do. Just a few hundred years back, devdasis were offered to temple who are later used by royalty and nobility as objects of porn. Those women didnt have a choice, whereas this woman did. I think thats what matters - the power to choose.
and what cememts it to to choose to be an ego feeder, one who is willing to throw virtue to the wind, or to be a great star who isn't juts showing off t, a and b to all willing to fancy a look.
anyhoo......is kiran ahluwalia under 30? she's awesome.....
i had some former friends who try to tell me desi girls are the worst. i gotta disagree, by far.
anyhoo, that was my 2 cents.
Oops! Fixed it Sri- double checked the mag, she's still cool. ;-)
Razib's right- I don't drink. And if it were about role models, I wouldn't pick someone that was a wine taster for a living. BUT, she is a cool chick because she is breaking down barriers and doing a "desi first." Not about assimilation, but about doing something that has not been done before... and that is all I'm sayin'! ;-)
This is a fun post Taz...my husband and I always watch brit movies with a lot of interest, trying to find a brown face here and there.
In terms of the list of women, 'all moving to break down barriers', it makes sense to include Sunny Leone in the list. Who are we to judge whether she is a role model or not? I mean, if that is what she wants to do and if being in porn rocks her boat (pun intended), then more power to her for doing what she wants!
I hope that every woman out there can find the strength and will to be true to herself. Amen to that..
Pattie - that's quite the reaction! What do you find so offensive about lesbian porn in particular?
Just a few hundred years back, devdasis were offered to temple who are later used by royalty and nobility as objects of porn. Those women didnt have a choice, whereas this woman did. I think thats what matters - the power to choose.
Devadasi culture and history is my thesis supervisor's area of speciality. According to what I've heard him say - they had a great deal of choice in choosing thier sexual partners and had much more agency than being mere "objects of porn". Although it bugs me whenever brown women's sexuality automatically gets linked to these imagined examples of the overly sensual exotic "ancient" desi woman, it's this very image that a lot of female brown porn stars will play on because it sells so well. I've never heard of Sunny Leone but I have watched porn involving brown people (all of it somehow really embarassing or just plain offensive) and if you ever read the descriptive, it almost always incluedes the words "Kama Sutra" "secret" "exotic" "sex-slave" or some such reference of accessing the dark sensual sex secrets of the East. It makes me wonder about that question of "choice". Let me join Pattie in saying
:)there is no such thing as brown porn.
Pattie - that's quite the reaction! What do you find so offensive about lesbian porn in particular?
two women, doing the thing for all to see. if that's their thing beind closed doors, bless them. fine...more power to em. but to make this something for depraved minds...that's another. besides...this may come to a shock, but i ack all porn ( and i choose to stay as far away from it as possible....) . it's an ego stroke for those who make it, and proves lack of imagination for those who watch it. it's sick, disgusting, and shows how lame a person is to watch it.
Yeah razib - there is only sepiaporn :) Someone should squat that domain name - may be a sister concern of SM, only more gainful :))
"Devadasi culture and history is my thesis supervisor's area of speciality. According to what I've heard him say - they had a great deal of choice in choosing thier sexual partners and had much more agency than being mere "objects of porn"."
BF - You should read my comments within the context of 'initiation' of girls into becoming a devdasi. IMO, thats a deplorable tradition, no matter how nobly/nicely/kindly those women were later treated. I dont want to sound like an expert on this matter, but they are more or less used as secondary source of entertainment for higher circles of society. Men with mid life crisis invented a nice way to keep the clock ticking - heck , them devdasis of yore must be porsches/v8 mustangs of today.
-P
pattie: if you're referring to the women who star in porn, then you are sadly mistaken. many of them have backgrounds filled with abuse and dysfunction. you're usually an unconditional fan of all things punjabi. perhaps if sunny leone was sikh? anyone know if she is?
Just finished my quota of Robert Heinlein and here I hear about porn. *sigh*
I think Sunny Leone is punjabi.
pattie: if you're referring to the women who star in porn, then you are sadly mistaken. many of them have backgrounds filled with abuse and dysfunction. you're usually an unconditional fan of all things punjabi. perhaps if sunny leone was sikh? anyone know if she is?
it wouldn't matter if she was sikh, hindu, catholic, jewish, islam or anything else.....doesn't matter where she comes from, it's how she chooses to act. i know a singh who has chosen to involve himself with a person who has waisted her life, choosing as he put it to listen no one but the devil'. a girl who is a single mother at far too young an age, and shows her body off. alot of people have backgrounds of abuse and dysfunction...it's no good excuse to enter such a business, especially as it also brings no better to one's self. one can chose to make the better of a life that is not good, or they can screw their lives up worse. no matter who they are. hell, many people have their stories...even myself, and my darling one (who i can admit is head above me already, and i learn much from him) - we both have our stories - but it's ego and the quench for attention that leads one to the porn industry. people who choose to fight dysfunction with more dysfunction are no better than the problem itself. those who deserve credit are those who try to make themselves a positive use to society, improving it, and not smearing it with more smut and egotism.
wow! thanks for posting. That makes me all warm and proud.
i like precise facts :) so i've done research. do you want me to give you a probability distribution of DPs in american porn? (the skewness is so strong in europorn that there's no point).
you want your porn?
here.....have
your porn....
I am very, very slowley seeing more and more brown faces in magazines outside of Asian Bride. Its still nothing to throw a party over, but its something. Here in Canadaland I'm heartened to see the desi faces in media, in news, etc...but fashion mads have been slow...unless its some trite exoticism fest fashion spread.
Kashish Chopra, 22 - Washington D.C. Real Estate Agent; openly gay; Miss Congeniality at the 2003 Miss India pageant. People would tell me how they were born gay but didnt know how to come to terms with their personal or cultural identity. But they shouldnt be afraid of it, because they are not alone. (p104)
cool. i'm not gay, obviously, but this girl deserves serious credit. she's standing up for herself and others against archaic thinking, and to be honest, i know many gays who are better than us straight people in cations....so all power to her!
Ok, sorry for being so horribly off-topic, but I haven't been able to get this out of my head since seeing the title of this post:
Girls - to do the dishes
Girls - to clean up my room
Girls - to do the laundry
Girls - and in the bathroom
Girls - that's all I really want is girls
Two at a time - I want girls
With new wave hairdos - I want girls
I ought to whip out my - girls, girls, girls, girls, girls!
Kitty Porn.
With each passing day Mutiny becomes more and more bizarre :-D
i would have never thought parminder to be 30! she's a great actress tho. and rasika is very cool. all right..i'll give sunny leone a drop of credit...she's still better than like pamela or anna nicole. not a whole lot better, but better. there.
Kitty Porn.
With each passing day Mutiny becomes more and more bizarre :-D
lmao...i HAD to be the rebellious one! and i will not comment further on the face fuzz - billa similarities. unless provoked.
Are you employees of Microsoft, working at Fargo?
Kitty Porn
The smut that dare not take its name :-))
Everyone likes a good rebel
"What the Christ!?"
-William H. Macy, in Fargo
Kitty Porn
The smut that dare not take its name :-))
Everyone likes a good rebel
lmao.......good.....
Not that I loved (or even liked) 'Chutney Popcorn', but the director is a 29 year old (maybe now 30) named Nisha Ganatra. Apparently 1% of the Directors Guild of America membership is female, so you can imagine how few of them are desi.
I second Cicatrix's Jhumpa Lahiri nomination and JoAT's list. If we upped that bar to 40, this list would be out of control (in the best of ways).
Prasad, R.e. #10 "Likewise, you dont tell your 14 yr old kid that it is OK to be gay; if and when the shit hits the fan, we just need to be prepared to grab the umbrella".
Actually, that seems to be exactly the age at which a person would benefit from knowing that their inclinations towards the same sex are okay. In fact, I'd say the earlier the better.
In the line before that you mentioned that you wouldn't show a 12 year old porn in an approving fashion and then went on to make the above statement. So are you equating an endorsement of porn with support for a gay adolescent?!
If so, amigo, I'm just stepping up to say that ain't cool.
If and when you have a daughter, if and when you follow through on that promise to instill confidence and independence in her, kindly keep in mind that these attributes tend to arise out of feeling loved and respected for who you are.
I don't mean to be harsh, but I also assume that you didn't mean to be ignorant...
Pattie:
I've asked before and I'll ask again. What're you smoking and where can I get some?
Kitty porn... Yeah, you definitely win the 2006 WTF Award.
I might nominate Navi Rawat, age 25 -- she might not be as luminous as Parminder for her acting chops (oh who am I kidding, Navi's acting is downright awful), but at least she's still heading in the right direction. And on shows like The OC, her acting is still pretty groundbreaking when you consider the "work" of Mischa Barton. She also had a bit part in "House of Sand & Fog"
There's also Ayesha Dharker (from the stage productions of "Bombay Dreams" and I believe "Mistress of Spices") -- she's 29.
I'd even reach to add Tina Sugandh -- isn't she under 30?
I'm hoping that eventually a list like this won't be so difficult.
Fascinating that none of us have named any desi doctor girls, engineers, techies, etc. - I know that there are brown gals out there rocking the more 'traditional' desi professions (traditional as defined by desi Amrikan standards) but I think it noteworthy that we've chosen gals whose pursuits made some of them (and their parents) pariahs on the auntie / uncle circuit (a.k.a. the Auntienet).
'Balle balle' to these bellwethers!
What a sententious question!
Prasad, that is a ridiculous comparison to say an actress like Nandita Das is the equivalent to of a porn star.
Two more nominations:
Monita Rajpal and Zain Verjee of CNN.
(Although Zain is 31).
With regards to Sunny Leone's religious background, a quick Google search does produce some results where she is quoted as being a Sikh, although I'm not sure how accurate this is. However, she is definitely Punjabi.
*With regards to Sunny Leone's religious background
.....Although I don't think that has any bearing on (or relevance to) her career choice.
Kavita, thanks for making that needed comment. You articulated my thoughts far better than I could.
My pick: Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha.
Under 30: Mindy Kaling
Just beyond 30: Kiran Desai
i would have to agree with miss jane of all trades...
sonal shah is an amazing woman (founder of indicorp and a family friend)...
another gal that have i've kept tabs on since high school as an 'academic mentor' per se include reshma jagsi.. she rocks as a traditional doc who will do more than just treat cancer...
w.r.t. Sunny's religion [NSFW]:
Sunny: "It's not a part of my everyday life. There are things that are questionable, just like any religion. It's a part of me but it's not. I believe in G-d but it's hard to incorporate all the rules and regulations and beliefs into your day when you're mixing with porn. You can't really do both."
It's not clear that she sees herself as Sikh, she makes it clear that she's chosen her work over any religion.
There is a Pakistani girl from the UK doing hardcore porn in LA and some Hindu girls doing porn too - Angela Devi, Priya Rao, some other ones too. Desi porn is booming.
Oh yeah, there is a Bangladeshi Muslim girl called Jasmyne doing hardcore in LA at the moment too - do a search Razib, check her genes
Aruni,
Ain't no thang - I figured I wasn't the only one irked by that comparison.
K
Sonya Aurora Madan
Sheila Chandra
Pattie:
I've asked before and I'll ask again. What're you smoking and where can I get some?
Kitty porn... Yeah, you definitely win the 2006 WTF Award.
and i will repeat....go ask ennis....i wah my face in his dhari. ;)
Pattie:
would you be so offended with mainstream movies that depict graphic sex?
A lot of people watch and enjoy porn...so what!!! that doesn't make them sick or disgusting or lame....
come on people .... let's get a grip here and get over our "moral" selves
Razib,
Sorry bro, but there is too brown porn.
Runyolarun,
Would you mind emailing me? I couldn't find a contact link on your blog. I met Leah briefly once and have a few questions. Sorry for going off-topic (again) everyone.
Cica - I don't think you can go off topic in this thread, or at least more off topic than it has gone thus far ...
runyolarun,
are you moving to the city of the weakerthans???? i noticed that song on your blog......
kavita: -
We just have to realize that each person acts within their own sensibilities. I am glad that you told me that what said a'int cool and I respect that. Normally, I would practise silence when I gets sermonized, but this one time I want to ask people not to make extrapolatory statements like 'you endorse porn', or 'you must be OK with your daughter being in porn' and since within the same context I made a comparision with gay issue, 'you must be NOT OK with girl being gay' etc.
Just because we dont approve a pornstar being a role model, doesnt mean that they dont exist. It (desi porn) is a growing phenomenon and wishing away doesnt erase the industry altogether either - this is exactly how Indian society treats the issue of prostitution and countless women suffer because of that. 20 years down the line, if and when 20% of porn actresses in North America would comprise of desi origin, then there will be a Chatsworth research group who would say that Sunny was the one who spearheaded the trend. To give another (irksome, inane twist?) to this argument, one of my coworker's dad (who was a baptist minister) didnt want none of his sons to be either a lawyer or an insurance agent, because according to him, they are possessed by devil. Its anyone's guess as to what most desi kids opt to become these days.
Now talking about gay issues - its none of my business to approve or disapprove of, and yes, I will NOT tell my kids that it is OK to be gay; I am not wishing it away, but if I see any 'tendencies', then I will bring it up. There are certain issues that you address proactively - 'sex, drugs, etc', while certain issues you address organically - 'career, sexual orientation, etc'. Hope that clears many things.
And oh, finally - Nandita das is a good film actress and Sunny is a sucessful porn actress. I know thats where the comparision ends - they chose different lifestyles. I dont judge their choices based on my moral upbringing or artistic preferences. Thanks.
I'm glad to see Sunny Leone doing well. As Canadian punjabi male from a liberal sikh family it's good to see a punjabi girl being able to do what she wants.
nope, there isn't any brown porn.
How about Kal Penn?
PS SUNNY is hot,
i didnt know of her before this
Dini V. Rao, 28, wine consultant for Christie's, also my cousin
A whole lot of respect for Sumi Das, even if she is 34 and doesn't fall neatly into this category.
Now talking about gay issues - its none of my business to approve or disapprove of...
Now talking about slavery - its none of my business to approve or disapprove of...
I Sunny Leone can be a sikh and still have her chosen profession since we all have the five thieves to worry about, not just her
Pattie:
would you be so offended with mainstream movies that depict graphic sex?
A lot of people watch and enjoy porn...so what!!! that doesn't make them sick or disgusting or lame....
come on people .... let's get a grip here and get over our "moral" selves
pattie says 'yes'....i really don't need to see that shit. i will not delve further into the latter half of that comment. i will just go to say no wonder soeciety is as screwed up as it is.
word up pattie
word up pattie
;)
besides....i really don't need sex shoved in my face everywhere i go - damn movies, most of them are sex, go to the store, scantily clad tart kutis, you wait at a bustop...you see friggin' ads with half naked tarts on them, everywhere you go, sex is adevertised. and yes, sex has it's place, but not as we in society see it, some values are virtues are necessary. i'm not saying we all have to be complete prudes, but today's society make anyone with half a brain wnat to throw up. and i'm all for women's rights, but this scantily clad stuff is just outright disgusting. i don't need half naked girls practically poked in my face everywhere i go. i don't see half as many ads with men and such on it. and not only is society's obsession with sex sick, it's boring. even my famed love for certain fuzzy wonderful creatures is not for just the obvious allure. fun, outgoing people who aren't out to sell their bodies to you, people who show they're cool because they're smart, inventive, just brimming with creative ideas. it's just logic. sheesh. every damn movie, every damn show has to have some dumb*sses screwing, and it makes me say 'same crap, maybe with a different dumb pop song.' hell, i love some pretty raunchy brit stuff. it amazes me how many who complain about my admirations of sardars are often those who have a fit over not defending porn.
A whole lot of respect for Sumi Das, even if she is 34 and doesn't fall neatly into this category.
if we can have porn stars get credit here, sumi should shurely have her due. we won't tell anyone she's over 30. 3 cheers for her!
yes, its all due to porn, not greed, or selfishness, or avarice, or evil, or greed, or ...
if someone makes a living off of their asset, be it their body, their brawn, or their brains, then i guess its not for you to judge them. if later in life they regret it, well, its still not for you to judge. and then if it happens that millions of people on the interweb are actually spurring on the ePornCommerce, well, thats for thems to pay for and others to earn... nto all of us hve PhD's or work on wall street or madison ave...
i know someone who regrets 35 years in gov service, and another being a chemical engineer, and another being a housewife... people have regrest for doing a lot of things, why should porn be any different.
i dont think its a question of prudishness, more of wanting to have the world in ones own image...
as for sLeon, good for her. it would make sense if deshis are increasing their visibility in politics, business, acting (i am in the middle of watching Harry and Koomar Goto White Castle, i swear Kal Penn looks exactly like a brown version of the guy from scrubs), that they do so in all other facets of american/european life as well...
i am waiting on a sAsian comedian to have their own spot on comedy central, maybe russell peters (ali g does not count)...
Pattie,
A humble request:
Please use [blockquote] ... [/blockquote] instead of bolding the text you wish to quote. It's extremely harsh on the eye.
Thank you.
you got it....
I have no idea who's responding to what, everyone's dry-humping the porn-topic to death and so I'm not certain if someone has already said this... But I think all the other women in the pageant who voted Kashish Chopra Miss Congeniality deserve some credit for awarding her the title and choosing to make a collective statement of support (the award is given by fellow contestants, not judges)... Okay, you can go back to the porn.
thanks for the break, and i agree, dogday!
comedienne- vijai nathan
although i don't know if she's under 30.
good job taz on compiling this.
I swear Kal Penn looks exactly like a brown version of the guy from scrubs
OMG! It's true.
Razib,
Well, I'm either delusional and have implanted memories into my own brain, or those people were in brown-face (make that full-body brown makeup). I've seen both porn involving brown girls and white men and porn where everyone concerned was brown. Perhaps you need to better your porn-searching skillz? Sadly, I wasn't the one downloading or burning them... otherwise, I'd ask for your email address and send you some, if only in the interest of dispassionate academic settling-of-this-issue :)
#99 Brownfrown,
I think Razeeb is being tongue in cheek (Although I can not be sure)
I am not American so I do not fully understand American society.
But I would put it this way,Sex should be better left in bedrooms (i.e in private space)
Somehow, I don't think that so much obsession with sex (of graphic nature) in public space is a good idea.
I may be wrong though
Regards
Found one more tonite! On Fox 5 News they did a story on exploited restaurant workers in NYC and the spokeswoman was Saru Jayaramn Executive Director of ROCny (Restaurant Opportunities Center of NY)
OHHHHHH tongue in cheek!
Whee!
Gaurav - yeah I have to say I agree.
gaurav, beautifully put. and additionally, it's not a matter of east vs. west thinking, or anything else like that. it's a case of logic, common sense and decency. it's like those damned cammie girls who ruin the internet. anyone with sense in their heads wouldn't allow their spouses/inomoratas to show off their bodies, or perform private acts for the indulgence of others. and even if you don't have a spouse/inomorata, it's no less lude. anyhoo....thanks for posting this.
brown face, and brown butt, and brown pu....
They're actually pink and grey, Razib.
Ennis is right. This thread is beyond salvageable.
Grey ??
I have seen pink and black (may be brown ?)but grey?
*Must watch more porn*
Gaurav (#100):
How about that - we agree on something! I don't think that sentiment has much to do with being or not being American, either.
Though I do think that information on safe sex and sexual practices should be available/accessible to anyone.
Oh dear. I shouldn't have contributed to the derailment of this thread. But yeah, if you think about it, when you mix pink, brown and black, you get pretty shades of brownish grey.
Pattie Kaur,
Can I please request you not to use verbal abuse in reference to these women. A woman choosing to wear revealing clothes is not committing a malicious act and neither is it some kind of "sin", so they certainly do not deserve to be referred to in such disparaging terms, regardless of whether or not you disagree with their choice of attire (or lack of it). Using such terminology is not only inappropriate (especially for someone who claims to be serious about shortly becoming Amritdhari), it sounds worryingly similar to the kind of rants some UK-based "hijabans" come out with in reference to their more liberal Muslim sisters and Western women in general.
This statement, however, is absolutely correct. Nevertheless, as Dudette said in one of her posts, it is ultimately the responsibility of the individual concerened as to whether they are making the "right" decision, both logically and ethically. Now, we know that engaging in the porn industry probably does have adverse psychological effects on many of its participants and (beyond a certain point, if taken to unhealthy extremes) on its viewers too, but these things have to be realised by the people involved. We reap what we sow, and we often have to learn our own lessons in life -- sometimes the hard way.
But the ultimate responsibility for the consequences of one's actions and their impact externally and (especially) internally lies with the person involved. You can certainly disagree with their behaviour, and to some extent you would certainly be justified, but unless someone is engaging in grossly malicious activities, they do not merit such bile on your part.
As a fellow Sikh, albeit a comparatively liberal one, I should mention that a more appropriate response by you -- at least in line with the Khalsa path you claim to be travelling on -- should be compassion for the porn actresses concerned due to the self-destructive impact their activities will undoubtedly have on many of them, not disgust and verbal abuse.
Madurai,
I never realized that we disagreed on everything.
However I don't think there is any problem with disagreement as long we are civil.
I think I have been civil and so have been you.
Social Taboos and Morals are constructs of time, location and Historical dynamics.
Therefore What I find distasteful as Indian you as American may not and vice-versa
Jai,
I hope I do not offend, but I think it is little extraneous to bring Sikhism (or for that matter any other religion) into discussion on porn.
Also while one is free to indulge in any activity (as long as permitted by law of land), I do not think Patti (or anyone else) is wrong to judge or criticize. I somehow feel disappointed with modern attitude of "Do not judge" and "Anything goes", for a society to exist the individuals must judge and discriminate.
Regards
I agree with Jai. Women's decisions must be respected. There are many reasons why a woman would wear what she does. Sometimes she is a victim. Sometimes she is proclaiming victory over gender oppression. But a naked woman and a woman under a burka can both be victims for different reasons. Similarly, a naked woman and a woman under a burka may be happier in their clothes (or lack thereof). But only those women themselves can tell you which one (btw I'm not saying it's always and either/or situation). The point is, no matter what their real situation is and how they really feel, all those women are degraded when we speak for them in this way.
Shruti,
"Women's decisions must be respected"
I do not agree with this. Tolerate yes, Respect depends
I have no compunction in discriminating
For me Mohini Bharadwaj and Kalpana Chawala are worth emulating, Sunny Leon is not.
Regards
Regards
Gaurav, I'm not opposed to expressing disagreement, but we can judge and criticize after we hear the women's own opinions, and that too, without essentializing rights and wrongs for women.
When I said I agreed with Jai, I was talking about his view on women, not Sikhism. Still, I don't want to say Sikhism doesn't have a place in a discussion like this because I'm not Sikh. Maybe we should let them decide.
And as far as disagreements with Madurai, does the model minority discussion ring a bell? There might be more, but that's what's fresh in my mind.
Shruti,
"I'm not opposed to expressing disagreement, but we can judge and criticize after we hear the women's own opinions"
You mean that we can discuss porn only after we have interviewed each and every porn nymphet, I think Porn is so often discussed that I doubt that there is any new information to be obtained.
"....and that too, without essentializing rights and wrongs for women....."
Again noone is forcing anyone but there is nothing wrong about expressing on what is right and what is wrong for men, women or Felicity
"...And as far as disagreements with Madurai, does the model minority discussion ring a bell?..."
I do remember but it was not everything.
Regards
And yet we keep coming back to the same ignorant conclusions about women. It's not the frequency of discussions about porn, it's what you actually consider in the discussion. And anyway, do we not progress (or regress)? The porn industry and the gender roles that influence it are not static.
Shruti
"I just mean we need a diversity of opinions from the actual subject of our discussion"
But who really is suppressing this "diversity of opinion".
To simplify,
A is free to say that Moon is made up of blue cheese.
B is free to say A is a loon.
B is being judgemental (even using ad-hominem assertion),
but he is not suppressing diversity of opinions
"And yet we keep coming back to the same ignorant conclusions"
See, even you are being judgemental!
There is no agreement because as I said Social mores change with place, time. So any debate concerning them is bound to run in circles.
As an aside all your statements about women, will you hold the same opinion about "The judges ready to unleash full measure of justice"
Regards
Pattie,
if you truly believe that our society is screwed up b/c of porn...then i guess i have nothing further to say
This post had so much potential... why's it degenerated into a discussion on porn instead of desi women who are successful?
Taz' premise on this post has been her definition of cool - not that of a career professional (none of the examples had a career. they all came under the broad entertainment category) - needless to say the 'career' is falling in disrepute - and the point is made clearer in this essay by allison wolf.
Some excerpts
What do you think? If a career is un-cool, is it cool to be a nurturer - if one doesnt choose entertainment? What is cool after all?
Farah Ahmed from Nirvana Woman Magazine. Why isn't there more stuff out there about what she's been doing? i mean, heading a real magazine for indian woman is a big deal and does tons to promote a positive image of indians! why are we wasting our time on Sunny?
you have the power to change it!
What's so great about Nirvana Woman Magazine (besides being riddled with grammatical and spelling errors)?
Nothing says progressive outlook like an East-West, static-dynamic, spiritual-industrial, dichotomy...
Okay, I have an idea. How about we all name a woman from Sepia Mutiny (one of the Mutineers or one of the commenters) who is a good role model or generally worthy of admiration, and include our reasons for doing so.
That should hopefully steer this thread in a more constructive direction.
my mayn says i should not speak up in public. but he is away so i can say.. JaiJi and SiddharthBabu, you are so maynlee. i am getting the tingles. is that bad?
Shruti (#111):
Gaurav (#112):
After graduating from college I was sitting in on an alumni meeting of sorts during which we were trying to come up with phrases to describe the college. One that came up was something like, "A student at our college respects other people's points of view." An older alum said he didn't like the term respect here and preferred tolerate/toleration.
The problem is that for many of us, toleration has taken on a very patronizing connotation. If one encounters a view which one doesn't like/agree with, one can simply tolerate it without engaging with it. This becomes a problem when the scenario is played out between two people in different positions of power with relation to each other. Someone in a position of power simply tolerates another person's view because it's simpler that way - an, "Ok, you think what you want, let's agree to disagree and move on, I'm not really going to worry about what you have to say," sort of thing. When those who are at the losing end of these power dynamics seek to assert themselves, tolerance/tolerat