May 02, 2006
KaavyaGate reloadedLiterature
A NYT tipster has found more lifted passages in Opal Mehta from yet another chick lit tome, Can You Keep a Secret? by Sophie Kinsella (author of Shopaholic), circa 2004.
At least three portions in the book, How Opal Mehta Got Kissed, Got Wild, and Got a Life, by Kaavya Viswanathan, bear striking similarities to writing in Can You Keep a Secret? … the phrasing and structure of some passages is nearly identical. [Link]
The structural similarities between both versions of this passage seem damning. (It is one contiguous passage):
| Can You Keep a Secret? | Opal Mehta |
|
“And we’ll tell everyone you got your Donna Karan coat from a discount warehouse shop.” Jemima gasps. “I didn’t!” she says, color suffusing her cheeks. “You did! I saw the carrier bag,” I chime in. “And we’ll make it public that your pearls are cultured, not real…” Jemima claps a hand over her mouth… “OK!” says Jemima, practically in tears. “OK! I promise I’ll forget all about it. I promise! Just please don’t mention the discount warehouse shop. Please.” |
“And I’ll tell everyone in that in eighth grade you used to wear a ‘My Little Pony’ sweatshirt to school every day,” I continued. Priscilla gasped. “I didn’t!” she said, her face purpling again. “You did! I even have pictures,” I said. “And I’ll make it public that you named your dog Pythagoras…” Priscilla opened her mouth and gave a few soundless gulps… “Okay, fine!” she said in complete consternation. “Fine! I promise I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll talk to the club manager. Just please don’t mention the sweatshirt. Please.” |
What boggles the mind is that there are people reading chick lit so closely as to be able to detect this. True, uh, dedication 
You know a story is overexposed when Paris Hilton’s relatives try to piggyback on the publicity 
But Viswanathan’s agent will have you know that when the Crown took down the Little, Brown, her client was the real victim. It’s her twinkie defense:
Viswanathan said she had read McCafferty but called herself the victim of a photographic memory. “Somewhere in her mind, she crossed an invisible line with this material and didn’t realize that the words so easy and available to her were not her own,” says her agent, Jennifer Rudolph Walsh… Walsh says, “I guarantee you she’ll graduate first in her class.” [Link]
Ruth Marcus at the WaPo criticizes Viswanathan for unoriginality by using the phrase ‘curry-scented.’ The irony escapes her:
The curry-scented slapstick that follows is more product placement (Moschino miniskirt, Jimmy Choo stilettos, Habitual jeans) than literature… [Link]
The Economic Times shows some sensitivity:
It might be pertinent to remember that some years ago, a young author was being promoted by many senior writers as the next big thing in the publishing industry. And then, exactly the same thing happened with her. That story ended with the lady committing suicide. [Link]
Class, true class. The plagiary and subsequent suicide of Indrani Aikath-Gyaltsen gave rise to an interesting twist of phrase (thanks, Thalassa):‘If something comes from exotic parts, it’s read very differently’
… “there’s a phrase `aesthetic affirmative action.’ If something comes from exotic parts, it’s read very differently than if it’s domestically grown…” Friends said she turned down one dashing military officer because he spoke English with a Punjabi accent, the Indian equivalent of a blue-collar nasal rasp. [Link]
Other Indian papers struggled with the chick niche, spelling it ‘chiclet,’ ‘chicklet’ or ‘chic-lit’ at random. Viswanathan was not amused:
“You better come correct with syntax [expletive deleted] or I’ll pop a dangling participle in your punk ass, you hear?” [Link
Meanwhile, one Boston brahmin worried the hungama might stain his silver spoon:
That may be fine for the world at large, but we at Harvard, quite frankly, are supposed to be something different. Every student here knows what it feels like to drop the H-bomb and is familiar with that tinge of pride at the recognition and respect which our institution’s name inspires… Harvard’s most recent and feted cultural contribution is chick lit written by an aspiring investment banker. We have fallen a long way from T.S. Eliot, and we should be ashamed. [Link]
This is the way the marketing machine ends, not with a bang but a whimper. But in all things a silver lining. Since many Indians don’t believe in intellectual property, Viswanathan could have a tremendous career writing for Bollywood. Why, just the other night I saw a fantastic new Bollywood trailer about a hit man who hires a cabbie to drive him around town for a night. It’s called The Killer. I suggest investing and putting up some collateral.
Viswanathan has already done what Bollyscribes do all day — lift, separate and brownify (PDF - thanks, Zai):
| Sloppy Firsts | Opal Mehta desifies it for you |
| These conversations [with Marcus] are like a shot of Schnapps with a Tabasco sauce chaser. Short, sweet, and strange… | Talking to Sean had been like eating sev mixture, the Indian equivalent to Chex Party Mix, sharp and sweet and spicy all at once… |
| [Marcus] smelled sweet and woodsy, like cedar shavings. | … [Seans’s] cologne (sweet and woodsy and spicy, like the sandalwood key chains sold as souvenirs in India.) |
| …I’ve become the subject of countless finger-pointing rumors. I heard he’s has taught her everything he knows, so she can do every position in the Kama Sutra at college. | …I was the subject of every senior’s finger-pointing, whispered rumors… “I heard the first item on your resume was being able to hit every pose in the Kama Sutra.” |
Lift kara de
Here are some of the similar passages (PDF) which most news stories haven’t yet quoted:
| Sloppy Firsts | Opal Mehta |
| … in a truly sadomasochistic dieting gesture, they chose to buy their Diet Cokes at Cinnabon. | In a truly masochistic gesture, they had decided to buy Diet Cokes from Mrs. Fields… |
| “‘Omigod!’ shrieked Sara, taking a pink tube top emblazoned with a glittery Playboy bunny out of her shopping bag.” |
“…buy me a pink tube top emblazoned with a glittery Playboy bunny.” |
|
But then he tapped me on the shoulder, and said something so random that I was afraid he was back on the junk. “Did you know that the average American spends six months of his or her life waiting for red lights to turn green?” “What?” |
… he tapped me on the shoulder and said something so random I worried that he needed more expert counseling than I could provide.
“Did you know that the words amnesty and amnesia come from the same root?” “What?” |
| “Omigod! Let’s make sure junior year rocks,” she says. “Let’s make more time for each other. Friends are forever!”
… So I say even less at lunch than usual, totally aware of how alone I am. |
“Omigod!… We have to make more time for each other. Friends are forever!” I said even less than usual, aware of how totally alone I am. |
| Scotty has gotten into the habit of substituting curses with initials. | Every curse was either replaced by its initials or had a consonant cleverly inserted… |
| Upper Crust [as most popular group in school] | Upper-Cruster [as most popular group in school] |
| Dreg [as druggies] | Dreg [as druggies] |
Related posts: Innocent, Until Proven Otherwise, How Kaavya Viswanathan got rich, got caught, and got ruined, Buzzword bingo
manish on May 2, 2006 01:43 AM in Literature · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
¤ Ultrabrown said: Born Copied
¤ Half the Sins of Mankind said: Weak
The more thorough listing at SepiaMutiny (whose commenters were quoted in this NYTimes piece) convinces me that the second example also was plagiarism.
Manish,
Just confess, you are green with envy about how posts by Abhi and Anna generated 400+ comments and you want to assuage your manly ego by cashing on it.
But! readers are not going to fall for the same gig again.
Oops I just did :-)
Regards
i resent the sexist term 'chick' lit.
i am so sick of this.
Is Kaavya now the most famous 2nd gen South Asian American ?
oh god, leave the poor girl alone. Granted, plagiarism is an offense. But the girl is young and she her offense has been called anything but genocide. And when did Nicole Richie become a voice for intellectuals? People make mistakes, hopefully she learnt her lesson and can move own. Imagine what this has done to her future career prospects... all that wasted talent! I was disappointed too but now i sympathise with the poor girl.
That Economic Times reference is to Indrani Aikath Gyaltsen, the most famous case of plagiarism in India to date. There's some dispute over what led her to commit suicide. Here's an article that talks about the case and her suicide.
http://www.sawnet.org/news/aikath_gyaltsen.html
@dhalsim, #4
i meant i am sick of the topic in general. some girl goes and copies her book from somewhere else. granted, it was something to talk abt for a while. ppl saw the story through different angles.
but it is still going on and on and on and on. please, surely we have much better things to do than run down some kid to this extent, even if she is guilty of this to the hilt. what difference does it make if she copied from one author two books, or two authors three books? she is paying the price for it already, isn't she?
It might be pertinent to remember that some years ago, a young author was being promoted by many senior writers as the next big thing in the publishing industry. And then, exactly the same thing happened with her. That story ended with the lady committing suicide.
I don't know if it's just my flu-inflicted, sleep-deprived state or the real me speaking, but I do feel for the girl despite....everything. Hang in there: this whole thing will be over soon enough. If there's one thing that can be said for falling from great heights it's this: you gain perspective on a whole lot real fast. Though most of us first truly feel this way around age 24, after a few (or many) dissapointments and failures, Kaavya gets a MEGA crash course at 19. Don't you remember suddenly feeling very very very old and maybe even a wee bit sad?
"Old man look at my life,
Twenty four
and there's so much more
Live alone in a paradise
That makes me think of two.
Love lost, such a cost,
Give me things
that don't get lost.
Like a coin that won't get tossed
Rolling home to you.
Lullabies, look in your eyes,
Run around the same old town.
Doesn't mean that much to me
To mean that much to you.
I've been first and last
Look at how the time goes past.
But I'm all alone at last.
Rolling home to you."
@dhalsim, #4i meant i am sick of the topic in general. some girl goes and copies her book from somewhere else. granted, it was something to talk abt for a while. ppl saw the story through different angles.
but it is still going on and on and on and on. please, surely we have much better things to do than run down some kid to this extent, even if she is guilty of this to the hilt. what difference does it make if she copied from one author two books, or two authors three books? she is paying the price for it already, isn't she?
I wasn't replying to your earlier comment, bytewords.
Much of this controversy is about plagiarism itself, as in where does one draw the line. Most think it's clear in this case. I brought up Malcolm Gladwell's dissenting view in that context.
I am gloating... to be perfectly honest and frank.
Gladwell's argument fails for the same reason why you can do an iPod competitor but not one that looks exactly like an iPod. The key variable is the likelihood of market confusion. The law's duty is to enforce fair play, not good manners. You can ape a writer too closely (bad manners), but the law will mainly prevent you from copying his/her words and paragraph structure (stealing intellectual property).
Curry Scented?
What a f*$%ing idiot!
i'm so sick and tired about seeing crap about this gal (especially on SM.. aren't 2 other posts dedicated to her ENOUGH? with over 500 responses nonetheless)... she messed up..and copied from a few books i'm sure..people have gone after her, from the university, the press, brown people, etc... people let's move on with it.. this saga will be continuing on otherwise like another case: anna nicole smith's battle to get her 90 year old hubbys money... i mean at this point, does anyone care about her gold digging? and malcom gladwell defending her was ridiculous... gladwell needs to blink some more think about his point of tipping ;)
i second chickpea.
enough already peoples!!! this is like with the whole clinton-lewinsky or even anna nicole thing, they got bandied about so much that by the end of it those who supported and detracted joined together in solidarity to say, like an unforgivably bitchy Paris breaking up with Paris:
it's so over!
let's just get over KV and take another hint from a non-fiction chick classic - she's just not that into us. so why are people so into her?
metric, your empathetic and sweet post was v appreciated. way better than a million pretentious wannabe-witty barbs levelled at her.
let's just take a deep breath and walk away...which is exactly what i'm doing by commenting on this post...:-P
Can I interest you in some M.I.A.? ;)
Maybe it's my caffeine deprivation, but I really don't see the connection between the Donna Karan line and the My Little Pony one. Missing the context am I?? In fact, the Opal Mehta sentences at the beginning of the post seem mostly innocuous (though the last one does seem a bit plagiarized). Ah well, this has gone on too long and I feel as though they are now just looking to blame her for anything they can.
I really don't see the connection between the Donna Karan line and the My Little Pony one.
Both buying from a discount store and My Little Pony are considered declasse in the Fifth Avenue crowd.
Manish (18#)
I think it (the specific passage you quote) is not as much as case of plagiarism as one indifferent prose resembling the other.
Regards
SM Intern:
yep, i'd love some more MIA
and while we're at it, how about more Ayn Rand, Gurinder Chadha movies and Jhumpa Lahiri thrown in?...
I think it (the specific passage you quote) is not as much as case of plagiarism as one indifferent prose resembling the other.
Really? An exact copy of the paragraph structure, lightly reworded? In that case, 'Nabokov Ninnington' is my own original work, and there's a bridge I'd like to sell you :)
Manish (21#)
I only meant that most probably 99.999% of the chick lit contains the same thing, with paragraph structures and all that goes with it . Isn't that the reason it is called chick lit !
Regards
Gaurav [#22]
Have extensive experience of chick-lit, do you?
For all:
Just something I have been curious about, just what is chick-lit? I know that the ToI classified _river of Gods_ as that, but I don't think they got it quite right. A highly political, dystopian SFF novel doesn't seem to fit the bill...
RCK (23#)
Hardly any, just the term "chick lit" did not seem right for serious literature (you know something like mush and all)
Regards
Wow .. there must be tons of people out there studying all of their chick-lit books just to come up with these similarities. Hmm, I wonder if I could get paid for doing that.
BLAHHH!!!
RCK:
poss. definition (totally amateur and rant-like but that's me)
chick lit
not to be confused, as in the Times of India, with chicklets, a popular mint confectionery item sold in india and used by children (and some adults) to make bunny rabbit teeth by placing small square mints over their two front teeth to amuse themselves on long summer days...oh, memories...but wait...
a total and utter shite-fest that turns literature into movie scripts, characters into caricatures and, in its incorporation of non-western subjects, complex socio-cultural issues into My Big Fat Greek Wedding with loud overbearing ethnic family, arrranged marriage fears and hot white guy waiting in the wings to whisk poor ethnic maiden away from it all.
a total and utter shite-fest that turns literature into movie scripts, characters into caricatures and, in its incorporation of non-western subjects, complex socio-cultural issues into My Big Fat Greek Wedding with loud overbearing ethnic family, arrranged marriage fears and hot white guy waiting in the wings to whisk poor ethnic maiden away from it all.
Hey, have you been reading Nisha Minhas? Who could resist the pleasures of novels like Chappati or Chips?, Sari & Sins, Passion & Poppadoms, Bindis & Brides
I'm amazed that Gurinder Chadha has not turned them into curry scented movie blockbusters yet.
Several handy examples of chick lit are at the second link in this post. More here.
Bindis & Brides has the best tag line for a novel ever written:
Can a curry really turn a woman into a nympomaniac?
Ask Joel Winters, he seems to think so.
I'm on the edge of my seat!
Mango (28#)
Hey, have you been reading Nisha Minhas? Who could resist the pleasures of novels like Chappati or Chips?, Sari & Sins, Passion & Poppadoms, Bindis & Brides
Please someone stop this massacre of alliteration.
Mango Man:
Nisha Minhas? Nope never heard of her but those painfully alliterative titles have enough 'Mistress of Spices' vibes for me to know to run and hide and find a safe place in a *library* with *books*, away from it all.
the really sad thing about chick lit is that i know people like me who haven't grown up in India pounce on desi writing to give us an image of our country, and now instead of Rushdie or Mistry people are gonna read craptacular curry-scented treats and find that their culture and heritage has been commodified, plasticked and repackaged without them even knowing it.
i know its harmless fun, but so is reading tabloid magazines and watching two-star movies, and all you're left with at the end is that sickly feeling in your stomach...must come from all those exotic, spicy tales of life, love and lonesome singletons...*gag*
Are we over-Kaavyaed?
Well, if it's good enough for six articles on New York Times, it's definitely good enough for three on the Mutiny.
Am I the only one who thinks that one of these comparisons is stretching it beyond belief? I mean:
and that photo of you meeting Prince William is faked
and
And that you couldnt get a date to the freshman fall dance, so you had to take your cousin
Are nothing alike except for the theme of faking it. Which, I'll bet is present in over half of the novels in this genre. It's a consistent plot point. The sentences are similar only in that they both start with "and that".
What's your point, Ennis?
That's she's not so bad after all?
Did you miss that the entire passage is one single comparison? Some of the texture was reworded just like 'Nabokov Ninnington' was, but the paragraph structure is a near-exact copy.
Are you still clinging to the belief that this occurred by chance or supernatural manifestation?
An odd burden of proof, that ('one different word means it's not plagiarism'?)
Oh god I'm so over this topic. She was 17 leave her alone already. I'm so tired of everyone flogging a dead horse. Yes she screwed up for petes sake can we move onto another topic already....
Maybe it's my caffeine deprivation, but I really don't see the connection between the Donna Karan line and the My Little Pony one. Missing the context am I??
I did not make the connection either.
Both buying from a discount store and My Little Pony are considered declasse in the Fifth Avenue crowd.
And two different stories about the snobby spoilt girls can't have references to the snobbery in two different contexts? I think someone is now just looking for anything to pin as being similar.
The originals in the chick lit genre, the ones that started it all were in a sense empowering to women. It pointed at the neurosy of women and the frustrations and situations women face. Women felt empowered in knowing someone else did as well and they weren't abnormal. Why did Sex & the City take off so much? However a lot of crap is now being sold off as "chick lit" and it's mildly irritating though I don't read any of it but it's diluted the whole chick lit genre.
BTW, most damning to me is this:
"The passages are clustered in the final third of Ms. Viswanathan's book."
That's when she was writing in a hurry. These similarities seem like more intentional rip offs than the others, it seems that she's clearly trying to avoid getting caught.
I think someone is now just looking for anything to pin as being similar.
Wait. You don't see the passage leading this post off is an exact copy, slightly reworded?
compare the 2 passages as whole.. not sentence by sentence
"Oh god I'm so over this controversy. She was 17 leave her be already. I'm so bored of everyone repeating a dead subject. Yes she messed up for petes sake can we move onto another post already...."
Not plagiarism?
Wait. You don't see the passage leading this post off is an exact copy, slightly reworded?
so diss the packaging, not the product spokeswoman. i don't think she's guilty of plagiarism, i think she's guilty of selling her soul.
and i'm with ennis and jane...sometimes, i DON'T see the blatant-to-everyone-else similarities. but then, i'm not naively, misguidedly thinking that a work in this most unoriginal of genres has to be original.
No, I see it now. I'm still not fully awake, and I think you changed the formatting (I can't find the bit I quoted). Yes, the whole passage is a complete rip. As I mentioned in another comment, I find the Kinsella quotes a bit more like other instances of intentional plagiarism I've seen.
Wait. You don't see the passage leading this post off is an exact copy, slightly reworded?
The Donna Karen thing and the my Pony thing...no I really don't see it. It's high school snobbery. It's not an experience exclusive to just one author. Such trivial snobbery is usually about clothes and ridiculously common so I would never in my wildest dreams think that one was lifted off the other.
Not plagiarism?
Oops yup it is...you caught me. lol
JoaT - look at the whole paragraphs side by side. Even if you don't see that part of it, when you step back, the two track very nicely.
JoaT - look at the whole paragraphs side by side. Even if you don't see that part of it, when you step back, the two track very nicely.
That was my whole point. If you go looking all of chick lit looks the same. I'm not saying plagiarism didn't take place in the greater context but this is nitpicking on a genre of books that has nothing original in it to begin with. If you look at all the teenage angst movies out there, they could all pretty much be written by the same person. Nothing original about them.
Forgive me if the phrases, "I'll tell everyone!" "She gasped" and "I promised" don't automatically ring my cheater, cheater-mathangya-eater bell, since they are uttered by, oh, EVERY female from age seven to 17. fine, the structures are similar, but so are the plots, the sub-plots, the SATC-approved-and-inspired brand name-checking and the requisite cutesy covers which evoke thoughts of shopping, pink and shoes.
i just wish everyone would look at the bigger picture-- most of these books are probably concocted by committee, which is why they're all bad copies of each other. i am almost certain that "opal mehta" isn't the ONLY book which could fail these tests set up by the media. so please, unless we're going to out THOSE writer-figureheads and apply justice evenly, let's leave kaavya alone.
JoAT! Jinx! Buy me a coke pair of Manolo Blahniks!
this is abs ridiculous.....arent these passages common place even in daily life...where such usage is so cliched that terming it plagiarism...is abs ridiculous
Ennis (45#)
I think it is literary equivalent of convergent evolution,
either that or great minds things alike ;-)
Regards
i am almost certain that "opal mehta" isn't the ONLY book which could fail these tests set up by the media.
You're almost certain? This is exactly where you're wrong, Anna. I think it's obvious to most observers now that packaging is one thing (and a problematic thing too), but extensive plagiarism is quite another. What you're doing here is the equivalent of saying that Enron is not guilty of fraud because capitalism is a screwed up. Well, capitalism IS screwed up AND Enron is still guilty of fraud.
These are not "tests set up by the media," these are real instances of deception. This is clear. It's clear. Why isn't it clear to you?
As for all those who are "sick and tired" of this topic, the best thing you could possibly do is to refrain from leaving a comment about how sick and tired you are. Turn off the computer. Go for a long walk.
As long as there are still defenders of a heavily documented case of literary theft, there's still life in this old horse.
we can argue about the proper metrics to use, but plagiarism software (at least the software used by CS teachers to identify cheats) looks for structural similarity (in this context, syntactic and grammatical similarity) as opposed to literal reproduction. this passage would clearly fail a structural test.
so you think that all the other books in the chick lit genre are 100% original, with no possibility for a similar result, if someone, say, the harvard crimson, had enough of a reason to spend extensive amounts of time doing side-by-side comparisons with THEM? please.
why isn't it clear to YOU that what i REALLY have an issue with, is scapegoating? it's clear SOMEONE took heavy liberties with "inspiration", what is unclear to me is why there is so much outrage aimed squarely at ONE girl, right now. why is this front page news all over the world? why are we prioritizing THIS?
enron ruined lives-- did opal mehta? let's get a grip here.
the structure in the passages are eerily similar...but then again, maybe its b/c i haven't read that much "chick-lit"....
so can't someone find an example of other books in this genre that hold a striking similarity as the first example in manish's post? this shouldn't be that hard if chick-lit is all the same and everyone does it....
oh wait... i know. this is a message from god. the end is nigh. the almighty is landing in a flying petridish in roswell.. but it must be true... it's the subliminal mesg in the opalmehta, which is an anagram for holycornholio in the yaabaadaabadoo script known only to the choice few ... and of course her name says it all kaavyavishwanathan... dont you get it... as the song of god... it is true... so many coincidences.. cant be a freak of chance... she'll be coming round the mountain when she comes... yayayippepeyippeeyai...singingyaiayaiyippeyippeyai...
I'm sorry Anna. It is clear to me that you have an issue with scapegoating, and I commend you for that. I really do. No one enjoys being the victim of public opinion, and it must be especially hard when one is so young.
But I also insist that, sometimes, the best way to defend someone includes helping them step out of their lies. In my opinion, this "unintentional copying" business is a big lie, and it's important that people say that. Just as creationism is a big lie, just as WMD is a big lie.
Whether or not people's lives were ruined is not at issue here. I agree with you that she shouldn't be pilloried, but I hope you can see that she's still engaging in destructive untruths, destructive, in the final analysis, to her. "I was in a rush to finish the book. I stole from a number of other books to get it done. I lied. It matters." She needs to get to that point. Until then, she's in a hell of her own making, filled with imaginary persecutors.
Until then, she's in a hell of her own making, filled with imaginary persecutors.
of her own making or her handlers? the nightmare scenario i'm haunted by has her wanting to come clean, but being persuaded not to. it's all well and good to pillory her for THAT, too, but that's where my age "argument" comes in to play...i remember being that age, i don't know if i would've been wise or strong enough to tell slick people to fuck off.
ANNA,
Your vociferous defense of KV seems to be fueled by passion than reason. It has been established at SM as well as word media that she was caught plagiarizing, people are outraged at the vehement arrogance than trying to out her down. May be in your opinion make a public apology is enough (even though it smells of a face saving exercise and not a least bit sincere), what defies logic is why the apology had to be timed with being caught and not self motivated. I guess her photographic memory erased traces of similarities from her mind when exposed to sunlight.
The point is that we can all argue for the sake of arguing and no there are no similarities between Enron and KV gate, someone has to be held accountable and the ultimate responsibility is the wrtiers.
i am almost certain that "opal mehta" isn't the ONLY book which could fail these tests set up by the media.
Me too.
i really don't under this high moral position or the utility of continued social condemnation. she plagiarized, that's uncontroversial (or at least should be). there are legal sanctions for plagiarism, but the McCafferty decided against litigating. she's been scorched in the blogosphere, scorched by the media, and her literary career is probably ruined. what other corrective measures need to be taken? she made a mistake, the world weighed in, and she was punished.
I question the motive behind three post on same topic.
Also I demand a joint investigation by US and India into this sordid affair (henceforth to be known as Mutinygate) of manipulation of site visits by posting stuffs like this,
what defies logic is why the apology had to be timed with being caught and not self motivated.
I'm amused. Do you have examples of authors that confessed to plagiarism before they were caught?
I now do buy that ms visvanathan has copied
now the weight of evidence has swung the blance being held by the blind lady way on to the other side.
Unless of course crabs are hanging on the heavier pan.
Looking at the superficial details of ms visvanathans book and life, which is
Desi chick wants to imitate a culture that is unfamiliar to her family and wants
to be accepted by both her parents her peers
So she did what others do in the so called 'fit in' phase, which is imitate after
a while she may even feel that she has internalized something.
Perhaps she truely feels like that...no one knows.
If she really beleives that then she would be wrong
Jane,
I was almost a 100% sure that my comment will warrant a reaction like yours, to answer your question NO I dont have examples of authors that confessed to plagiarism before they were caught for that matter I dont have examples of anyone who confessed to any wrong doing before they were caught. You are completely missing the point, in some of the comments in this post and earlier posts KV was being sound like a martyr just because she apologized on national TV, the point I am trying to make is that the apology may not be heart felt and a well timed PR face saving exercise.
I agree that passion must be separated from reason.
Kaavya may be a wonderful kid, in fact I would bet on it. Her Mom probably makes great dosas and chutney too. Sure, she's a real human being with a loving family and friends. She's young, she's a student. At one point in time, we were all her age, wide-eyed and innocent.
That does not mean we can make excuses for her.
What saddens me is that, if she comes out of this with no charges pressed against her, with her book deal and money all intact, she will be sending out a message to millions of other young men and women out there. "The way to get a book published is to plagiarize." "Want to get into Harvard? Cheat your way in - only cheaters get in." "Plagiarize - you can get away with it!"
It is already an unfair world. Kaavya Viswananthan comes from an upwardly mobile, well educated family. The chances of someone her age who hails from Southeast D.C. getting a book deal like that is little to none.
My point is, in a world where we are told/know that life is *not* fair, shouldn't we make it our motto to make it as fair as we can?
why isn't it clear to YOU that what i REALLY have an issue with, is scapegoating? it's clear SOMEONE took heavy liberties with "inspiration", what is unclear to me is why there is so much outrage aimed squarely at ONE girl, right now. why is this front page news all over the world? why are we prioritizing THIS?
I basically agree with not focusing one's rage on KV. She is the front and a part of this farce. The 'packaging' company, publishers, agents, etc. all have a part in bringing this product to the market. They ARE part of the problem, however, they're letting KV take the heat.
This whole situation is analogous to the pop music industry where a pretty, fresh, and young new face is brought in. She can sing OK, not the best. With top notch producers, song writers, marketing people, etc. they manufacture a hit. In this case, their hit came down in a giant flaming wreck. There are too many layers between KV and the market, especially in traditional model of publishing. Supposed 'professionals' whose job it is to review, didn't (or contributed to the mess).
enron ruined lives-- did opal mehta? let's get a grip here.
As Abhi mentioned earlier, isn't this all a part of the same mess? People not coming clean and abusing the trust you put into an organization. Obviously, consequences of this vs Enron aren't in the same league.
KV has other options. IF her handlers pushed her away from what she really wanted to write about, the internet exists. She may not get the money, but her art is still valid. If she was co-opted into that lame apology, she still thinks by saving the folks who are also partially responsible, in some way, she's still giving her future as a writer a chance.
KV, just come clean, and try new publishing models. Atleast it'll be the truth and people will judge your talent for what it is, not what corporations exepct it to be.
She's 19, give her a break
She's 19, give her a break
So are they. Who's giving them a break?
who's comparing people in a war with a plagiarized chick-lit novel? way to focus your energy on what's rilly impotent :-)
enron ruined lives-- did opal mehta? let's get a grip here.
Enron shifted wealth where it didn't belong. Exactly the same thing happened with Kaavya
orders of magnitude different, done by people in their 40's-60's. let people know if Kaavya-gate causes blackouts in California
So are they. Who's giving them a break?
oh, i get it. so if some 19-year olds suffer, all of them should, since we can boil everything down to the same thing. dying at war = public humiliation from a mistake. plagiarism = enron. if you want to give kaavya a break, then you take away a break from an honorable soldier. gotcha. frankly, i think such comparisons are an insult to our military, who are dealing with REAL problems, not nicole richie's laughable bitchiness.
i can be compassionate towards kaavya AND the men and women (my sister included) who put themselves on the line, when we are at war. i can't believe how many times i've had to type this: compassion isn't a zero-sum emotion. i've got gigatons of it to go around.
I am amazed how simplistic people have made this issue to be, to quote let me know if KV causes blackouts in California. This is ridiculous we need to hold people accountable for their actions, no one is trying to compare magnitudes but actions the concept of accountability is based on the premise of owning up to your actions good or bad. No wonder there have already been 500+ comments as the inane keep popping up.
I was almost a 100% sure that my comment will warrant a reaction like yours, to answer your question NO I dont have examples of authors that confessed to plagiarism before they were caught for that matter I dont have examples of anyone who confessed to any wrong doing before they were caught. You are completely missing the point, in some of the comments in this post and earlier posts KV was being sound like a martyr just because she apologized on national TV, the point I am trying to make is that the apology may not be heart felt and a well timed PR face saving exercise.
People are taking different stands about this issue based on myriad POVs. I don't see anyone making her out to be a martyr though she could may as well be a scapegoat according to a few.
Most apologies in these kinds of public/media cases where someone is caught doing something wrong are done to save face and are timed by PR. Again you are stating the obvious and I apparently am missing your point. You want her to behave differently then others in similar scandals? Her book got pulled off the shelves. What more would you like for her to do? Cry for you perhaps to believe she was "sincere" or then you might claim them to be crocodile tears. Come on now!
# 68 well said curious!
so are they
a canvasback duck dies when its 19 years old. who gives them a break? may be cheney, but every one else just shoots them.
malini-if millions of young writers are going to be swayed by something like kavyagate, then they have no business writing. you must be seperated from reason.
cheating, cutting corners, "packaging" are the American way (everyone's guilty to some degree), at least cinema seems to have understood this a long time ago, don't remember who said it but something along the lines of good films borrow, great films steal...
So all semantic polemics aside who is going to play Kaavya in "Shattered Viswanathan" if Stephen Glass (The New Republic) gets a feature, she deserves one as well, it can even have the 3 standard song and dance numbers
I expect to see this on youtube shortly.
cheating, cutting corners, "packaging" are the American way
ironically, meritocacy, however relative it was/is, is the reason America advanced in education and science, and (maybe less so) in the arts
Jane,
I applaud your clairvoyance; do you usually have a knack of reading peoples minds or is it just me as I painfully state the obvious which by the way is a little difficult to avoid after 500+ POVs? I dont want her to do anything for me, all anyone wants is for her to own up, just to state the obvious again getting the book pulled off the shelves was not a choice but a compulsion.
This is ridiculous we need to hold people accountable for their actions, no one is trying to compare magnitudes but actions the concept of accountability is based on the premise of owning up to your actions good or bad.
way to phocuss your energies on a 19 year old chick lit author. you go!
She is the front and a part of this farce. The 'packaging' company, publishers, agents, etc. all have a part in bringing this product to the market. They ARE part of the problem, however, they're letting KV take the heatThats the game! KV is the writer. Her name is on the book. She has to take the fame/flame at the end of the day. The packaging company, publishers, agents, editors all have to take the financial heat as well. They had to recall the book(thats money down the tube) The editor(s) can not mention that they were part of this, they too will be looked down upon.
I for one am not for condemning the person but the actions, it is difficult in cases like these where the person is the sole recipient of half a million dollars.
Thats the game! KV is the writer. Her name is on the book. She has to take the fame/flame at the end of the day. The packaging company, publishers, agents, editors all have to take the financial heat as well. They had to recall the book(thats money down the tube) The editor(s) can not mention that they were part of this, they too will be looked down upon.
She is young and is learning a harsh lesson pretty quickly in life. I will make some assumptions along the lines of that KV has probably lived a fairly sheltered life. Reality of the world is very different. I would like to know where are her parents are in this whole process? Haven't heard a word from them. At the age she wrote this book, their support (and possibly pressure) must have been a factor. If this was happening to my daughter, I'd stand next to her and take the blame with her. Not shelter her from criticism, but atleast voice my opinion and own up to whatever (if anything) I contributed to this mess.
Hopefully, this epsiode gives her a lesson that she DOESN'T HAVE to play the game. Other options, though not as lucrative in the short term, they exist. She does shoulder a significant amount of responsibility for this boondoggle. Her name is on the book. Her publishers have felt the financial pinch. All for good reason.
Once the dust settles, I'd be interested in what the internal dynamics between author, publisher, packager, parents, etc. was. This could be as simple as KV screwing up and pulling one over like Frey, or more likely several factors playing into the process. Events like these contribute to my skepticism of 'old media' institutions, where content and delivery are not in the artist's hands, but in executives.
*gag* anyone who refers to mentioning harvard as "dropping the h-bomb" should be prevented from communicating anything further for the rest of their life. give me a break...
Actually, there is more:
http://www.gawker.com/news/kaavya-viswanathan/kaavya-viswanathan-cant-stop-the-plagiarizing-170924.php
But now, I'm even more convinced KV didn't write any of the books. Either there was a poorly paid, overworked ghost writer or KV sat down with a bunch of chick-lit books figuring out how to write one. But really, it's enough now. I feel bad for the poor girl..
She should've just been allowed to write the "dark" Seabold-y stuff she wanted too...
She is young and is learning a harsh lesson pretty quickly in life.Well I think she was old enough to know better. her editors and book company older and wiser and should have done better
I will make some assumptions along the lines of that KV has probably lived a fairly sheltered life. Reality of the world is very different. I would like to know where are her parents are in this whole process? Haven't heard a word from them. At the age she wrote this book, their support (and possibly pressure) must have been a factor. If this was happening to my daughter, I'd stand next to her and take the blame with her. Not shelter her from criticism, but atleast voice my opinion and own up to whatever (if anything) I contributed to this mess.Why bring her parents into this. There is no need to hide behind parents... She did the right thing by going on the record alone.
Once the dust settles, I'd be interested in what the internal dynamics between author, publisher, packager, parents, etc. was. This could be as simple as KV screwing up and pulling one over like Frey, or more likely several factors playing into the process. Events like these contribute to my skepticism of 'old media' institutions, where content and delivery are not in the artist's hands, but in executives.I too want to know more about those dynamics. But i dont think wer are going to here much from any one else.
I too want to know more about those dynamics. But i dont think wer are going to here much from any one else.
Please stop this inane speculation and conspiracy mongering. Publishing is an industry, and just because the process isn't covered in the pixie dust and moonbeams doesn't mean it's grasping and venal. Little, Brown lost a LOT of money by trusting this girl.
But sure, if you have more questions, fire away.
By the way, profit and loss is a zero-sum game.
The money lost in Kaavya-gate (advance, printing, marketing, publicity, legal fees, recalling fees, remaindering fees) means less money for the next young first time author, at least if the publsihing company doesnt' want to go out of business.
Gawker digs up an interview Kaayva gave The Hindu on the very day that The Harvard Crimson broke the plagiarism story:
The deal with Little Brown was for a two book series. So have you started work on the sequel?No. I havent and I probably should. But Im actually terrified about the writing process this time around. What if I find out I have nothing to say? What if I cant write? I just wish I could just move forward to the time when the sequel would be written and I could go around promoting it. I enjoy that part. (smiles)
Right. Bet you do.
Thanks publishing lifer,
as an insider (because you used the word venal :) do
you place blame at the feet of Kaavya, walsh, packagers...or a third each? Will this change industry
attitudes towards packagers as a whole...? Young writers?
But sure, if you have more questions, fire away.
1) What is your opinion on packaging companies sharing copyrights? Does it, in your eyes, reduce the value of said author's work?
2) Does the editorial/publishing process have a specific review that looks at other works in the same genre to see where the work 'stands'?
you place blame at the feet of Kaavya, walsh, packagers...or a third each? Will this change industry attitudes towards packagers as a whole...? Young writers?
I'm going for a third each. I felt shocked and slightly nauseated when I first heard of this deal - seemed like such a bad idea. Even for some writing prodigy, she had no previously published work!! Not even a poem, as far as I know! (Student magazines don't count.)
Agents are a slippery breed, and while I don't know this story well enough to comment on Walsh, her statements to the press have been rather overdramatic. Didn't she say this book was 1000% Kaavya's at one point? And now she's expressing faith in Kaavya's next book, I believe. Maybe she just really believes in her author....it's been known to happen more often that you'd think!
On a personal/non-professional level, I blame the way Kaavya was raised...to set goals and reach them with no regard to how she got there. This is, of course, speculation on my part, but it's a larger issue that I generally have a problem with.
Re: industry attitude toward packagers. I hope so. Packagers are fine, really, when it comes to serials like those billion Mary-Kate and Ashley books, or the Sweet Valley stuff. Do the tweeners who read them really care about an 'author's voice'? But what's really sad about Kaavya-gate is that she was presented to the public as this literary prodigy, then asked to write chick-lit! A string of bad decisions there.
As for young writers...not so much. Publisher's will be more careful, hopefully, about throwing money at untested authors, but I'm not going to hold my breath for long. Foolish desisions are easy to make, and the lure of a young, attractive author is really strong these days. But I am concerned about a slight (if temporary) backlash against young South Asian authors.
1) What is your opinion on packaging companies sharing copyrights? Does it, in your eyes, reduce the value of said author's work?2) Does the editorial/publishing process have a specific review that looks at other works in the same genre to see where the work 'stands'?
1.Yes. But here's the catch: work that is ghostwritten, or "as told to," or "written with" or commisioned off to a work-for-hire writer (I'd be surprised if Jack and Suzy Welch really had side by side typewritters and wrote every word of Winning. I'm guessing they had assistants, dictaphones, professional 'book doctors' etc.) really isn't counted on some imaginary graph of literary merit. Nabokov isn't Jenna Jameson, and it's not fair to either to even compare the two. There are entirely different standards, so the idea that Nabokov was "packaged" is far far more shocking, devaluing, than imagining the same for Jenna Jameson.
2. No. There are far too many books, far too few people, far too little money (do you know how much people in book publishing get paid?!), far too many tasks to do...and far too many books out there. Editors barely have time to edit anymore, let alone scan warehouses worth of books to locate similar paragraphs. I'm sorry, but the scope of such an endeavor would be enormous. if authors want to cheat and know such a system is in place, they'll just go to something more obscure, or in a foreign language. There's no way to catch such things so we work entirely on the honor system. And let's not forget that there's no way to know if something will be the next Da Vinci Code or flop right out of the gate.
On a personal/non-professional level, I blame the way Kaavya was raised...to set goals and reach them with no regard to how she got there. This is, of course, speculation on my part, but it's a larger issue that I generally have a problem with.
Do you honestly believe that her parents willingly or unwillingly pushed her to be dishonest? I think you definitely have a point there because I have seen overachiever desi kids growing up who wouldn't think twice about cutting you down and running you over with a truck to get what they wanted if you stood in their way. Competitiveness is a very common Indian trait but I'm skeptical about the level of deception that is involved in it.
But I am concerned about a slight (if temporary) backlash against young South Asian authors.
This is the first thing I thought about when this story broke. I think it will certainly open up future south asian writers up to more scrutiny and make everyone look closer.
Sadly all this plagiarizing business brings back annoyed memories of some of my own stuff sitting out there on the net for eons that some desis have gleefully taken as their own and given their name to. I seriously have no discourse. Hell I once had a personals ad that was copied verbatim by someone and simply posted as theirs. That was the weirdest and saddest thing ever. I was the one that was forced to change mine because it was so embarrassing. When I sent her a note stating the obvious she sent me a simple "F**k you" back in a lovely email!
Do you honestly believe that her parents willingly or unwillingly pushed her to be dishonest?No, that's not at all what I said or meant. For me, personally, there is something disturbing about a larger culture that accepts ambition and goal-oriented striving to the point that a little deception is seen as ok.
That it's not 'deception' really...just 'talking up' or 'padding' or 'something that everyone does.' I've never lied, padded, stretched, or overstated a damn thing on my resume and I'm always shocked that people assume I have because, well, 'everyone does'!
(it's not even impressive, so I'm all the more baffled!)
By the way, profit and loss is a zero-sum game.
Was anyone unclear on this? Because if there ARE people out there who were confused enough to need that reminder, allow me to be ultra-blunt about my use of the term earlier: my compassion does not = some publisher's cash. the latter is zero-sum, my feelings are not.
Sadly all this plagiarizing business brings back annoyed memories of some of my own stuff sitting out there on the net for eons that some desis have gleefully taken as their own and given their name to. I seriously have no discourse.
that's b/c your xerox-like "admirer" didn't:
a) go to Harvard
b) get 500k (which apparently isn't even true)
c) wasn't telegenic.
i love selective justice.
(JoaT, my heart aches for you, I had it happen to me once, still remember how outraged I was. So unnecessary and lame.)
Hell I once had a personals ad that was copied verbatim by someone and simply posted as theirs. That was the weirdest and saddest thing ever.
Wow. That is weird and sad. A personals ad? That person must really have nothing going for them if they're stooping that low, copying another's description of their persona.
Lifer,
Thank you for the informed responses.....to get to the heart ....will 17st or walsh be blackballed in publishing? a la Mike Ovitz?..
Would any of the sanctimonious set explain what Enron *actually* did that was fraudulent?
Hari,
they mis-represented massive debt on their annual reports for 10+ years....the most hated lie on wall street....very simm to plagiarizing in
lit...the SEC comes after you with heated tongs (unless you happen to be friendly with....oh yunno the drill)
There's more. (From http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/author/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002426259):
The Harvard Crimson, which first reported the similar passages in Opal and the McCafferty books, reported that Opal also contains passages similar to some found in Meg Cabots The Princess Diaries....
In The Princess Diaries: There isnt a single inch of me that hasnt been pinched, cut, filed, painted, sloughed, blown dry, or moisturized. [...] Because I dont look a thing like Mia Thermopolis. Mia Thermopolis never had fingernails. Mia Thermopolis never had blond highlights. Mia Thermopolis never wore makeup or Gucci shoes or Chanel skirts or Christian Dior bras, which by the way dont even come in 32A, which is my size. I dont even know who I am anymore. It certainly isnt Mia Thermopolis. Shes turning me into someone else.
On page 59 of Opal: Every inch of me had been cut, filed, steamed, exfoliated, polished, painted, or moisturized. I didnt look a thing like Opal Mehta. Opal Mehta didnt own five pairs of shoes so expensive they could have been traded in for a small sailboat. She didnt wear makeup or Manolo Blahniks or Chanel sunglasses or Habitual jeans or Le Perla bras. She never owned enough cashmere to make her concerned for the future of the Kazakhstani mountain goat population. I was turning into someone else.
Yes, there's something weird and interesting going on here.
Geoffrey Pullum over at Language Log has raised a point that most have missed. Can you remember the actual italicization of a commonplace word in a sentence, even if the sentence speaks to you in a very profound manner? This is what I'm referring to.
princess diaries! now that's going too far!....kaavya is playing mad libs straight up.
No shame. But seriously...was she sitting in widner library copying into the wee hours or did a
overworked 17st employee slip in the passages...or both?...
Leave her alone .... please .... you have all done enough harm. She should have learned her lesson. Close this topic please. Are you planning to make her take this to her grave.
Oops, I meant this.
will 17st or walsh be blackballed in publishing? a la Mike Ovitz?..It all remains to be seen...publishing has had a few too many nasty scandals recently. This is where spin comes in.
I honestly never heard about 17th street until Kaavya-gate. Apparently they are big in the YA scene which is rather foreign to me. Now there are rumors (that keep getting shot down as just that - rumors with no basis in fact) that 17th also packaged the same books that Kaavya allegedy plagiarized. In other words, 17th street plagiarized itself. But, then all parties involved with this (including Kaavya and people who've worked for 17th) say she wrote the book herself. I'm trying to find out myself!
"Packaging" doesn't have to mean writing, by the way. They could just have come up with a really strong marketing plan and conceived of all the promotional material to launch a full-frontal assault onto the best-seller lists.
As for Walsh, she's been around and has clout. It all depends on far this thing goes. If it's still news two weeks from now, heads might roll.
Yes, there's something weird and interesting going on here.
Wow Pooja not sure what to say. That was definitely a bit too similar to disregard. Not the actual happening but the description of the happening which I can think of 3 different ways of saying off the top of my head right now if I had thunk of it originally.
Lifer,
...It would seem Walsh has quite a bit to answer for given her role as middleman..if Kaavya has to step up to the heat..they should all step up...especially as
copywrite was joint...as an agent that could be interpreted as selling a client short...but then maybe kaavya couldn't put two words together as seems to be the case...
So if she plagiarizes from many, many different books, is it no longer plagiarism?
There's