Come on now. Leave the girl alone.

Good grief... is her whole book a patchwork of passages from various sources stitched together ? The effort of doing that seems higher to me that just writing it from scratch...

and the point of this article is??

seriously, this is getting out of hand. she admitted to it already. just leave it alone. these new similarities are a stretch...

Dead horse but who makes naan at home? Are Jersey McMansions coming equipped with tandoor ovens these days?

I vote for the hodgepodge theory. I don't know if there was a conscious plagiarism, but the way this girl's mind soaks up and squeezes out what she's read in the past (near verbatim) is astounding. She'd make a fantastic lawyer.

Come on now. Leave the girl alone.

I view this as decoding the influences of one of our most talented mashup artists.

she admitted to it already.

Actually, she's never admitted to intentional plagiarism.

"seriously, this is getting out of hand. she admitted to it already. just leave it alone. these new similarities are a stretch..."

what did she admit to? these passages side by side do not seem like a stretch, but point to more "unintentional internalizing"

I don't know if there was a conscious plagiarism, but the way this girl's mind soaks up and squeezes out what she's read in the past (near verbatim) is astounding.

In your theory, she remembers the text verbatim, including italics and the exact order of specific clauses, but not the sources, orthat she's ever read an Indian-American novel before.

girl is well-read what can you say....she's got all the YA's books covered

Yes, her research is impressively thorough.

Raytheon's CEO, Swanson, was caught with his hand in the plagiarism cookie-jar. Here's how he got away with a slap on his wrist: many years ago, he says, he gave a marketing/PR hack a box of his notes on management and leadership along with some other books that influenced his thinking. The expectation was material that he can use in presentations and stuff. He forgot to recheck what came back and finally wrote a book with it and that's how stuff from other books ended up in his book without attribution.

Also read Suzy Welch's article in the WSJ today where she thinks the publishing industry could be the one responsible here (not that Kaavya is any less responsible.)

So...as the number of books Kaavya plagiarised from increase by the day I wonder if this was a inner job from Mr Allow Packager.
Would do good for a whole lot of people if Kaavya comes clean and either takes responsibility or points out how this came about.

as the wheel turns

a tug and a tweak...

The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed. It blesseth him who gives, and him who akes... It is an attribute to God Himself; and earthly power doth then show likest God's when mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Hindoo, though justice be thy plea, consider this, that, in the course of justice, none of us should see salvation. We do pray for mercy; and that same prayer doth teach us all to render the deeds of mercy>

Holy Mother of Plagiarism. Can we MOVE ON TO ANOTHER TOPIC? There are tons more issues that we can discuss on SM...you can add links to the other postings on this topic... it's like beating a dead dog....get over it.

‘I’ve never read a novel with an Indian-American protagonist.’

— Kaavya Viswanathan, April 26, 2006 [Link]

II. Conflict and comparison listed

Ohhh SNAP! RED HANDED.

and the point of this article is??

All the material she had admitted to 'borrowing' was based upon internalizing works she had read. So, either she hasn't written the book at all and she is honest about not having read a novel with an Indian-American protagonist, but lying about having written the book, or she did write every word of the book and copied a whole lot. Including material from a type of novel she had never read about.

For Lords sake, just come clean.

You are wasting your time. I want what my contract entitles me to.

as the wheel turns

A Greek tragedy is meant as a cautionary tale which inspires empathy in the audience :)

When Detroit hosted the superbowl, windsor got a windfall - simple reason - the strip clubs this side of the border go the full monty on lap dances -drove a lot of traffic over- the bareass lap dance on SM seem to be equally good for media attention - but surely not the traffic you want to have now, would you?

yeh larki stole three passages out of mera personal diary too! gundabhai is swearing revenge!

I mean, to a certain degree, everything we have say or write has been written to or said to a certain degree before. I am sure some one has said that as well. Does that mean I plagiarize it? ... To meticulously piece together and paraphrase several books into one book would probably be more time consuming than actually just writing something. I bet you could probably take any book recently published, and run a statically algo against every book ever published showing that certain passages in the book in question are common to passages that have been previously been written.

Whenever there is a raising star people want part of the action, or some how sully their good name. I haven’t really followed this story, nor did I follow that Da Vinci law suit, but seems like a popular theme these days? Didn’t some one try to suit that harry potter lady?

The point is, this is totally gotten out of hand...

When Detroit hosted the superbowl, windsor got a windfall - simple reason - the strip clubs this side of the border go the full monty on lap dances -drove a lot of traffic over- the bareass lap dance on SM seem to be equally good for media attention - but surely not the traffic you want to have now, would you

how in the world is that the first analogy you came up with

What the hell!!! Was she writing a book or making last minute assignment submissions???
I've kept quiet based on the observation that she's being bashed left, right and center for the copying methods. Then we find a second author stands up pointing that "Opal" has passages exactly as in her book. And now this... the third book.

Seriously, its time someone looked at the pinheads running the publishing company too. Didn't they read the book which seems to now have the dubious record of being copied from not one, two but three books!!!!

To meticulously piece together and paraphrase several books into one book would probably be more time consuming than actually just writing something.

Pasting is actually much easier. That's why blogs quote liberally (though they cite). Note that the phrases come in exactly the same order.

As a published writer, my experience says otherwise. It takes me a year to eighteen months to write a book that I consider publication-worthy. In contrast, I can stitch together a credible novel using other people's work in about two months. The difference in time and effort is significant. [Link]

A Greek tragedy is meant as a cautionary tale which inspires empathy in the audience :)

A Greek tragedy is meant as a cautionary tale which inspires empathy in the audience

Usually empathy is inspired because we learn the moral of the story, not because our favorite blog dissects it ad nauseum. ;) And yet, having said that...I might have one more thing to say about K-gate, in a few hours. Perhaps I will spare our readers and just put it on my own blog.

Screw the plagiarism... I am going out to eat keema nan and mutton curry.

Isn't Opal Mehta's family hindu? Why are they eating meat from only halal butchers only?

Non vegetrarian punjabi hindus & more so sikhs find halal repugnant...
if mehta is punjabi(can be gujju also and elsewhere) then its unlikely...

Did you guys hear that bang?

That was the South Asian author bubble bursting.

too bad...I'll miss all the covers with saris and henna wiht titles like "The 7th Wife of Banglapore" and "Am I white or brown anyways I'm soooo...confused!?!"
good times

I now have a good feel for why she did it.
god damn it i love food. I have been cooking since i was 10 or so. I can give up sex, money, reading make magazine, my somewhat prized dualcitizenship but not cook books and i dont mean ttl cookbook.
next to e, food is my passion...
But if i was to write an indian american story, i would describe food that way... She was fluffing it up w/ details to sell it to a non indian audience. It probably was the required fluff, the same kind that makes amy tan unbearable...

any ways lets talk about another desai discussing identity and it finaly
in a superficial way pays attention to NE india.

But if i was to write an indian american story, i would describe food that way.

That was the South Asian author bubble bursting.

I think these multiple posts are necessary. And the fact that each and every one of them is getting lots of comments would suggest that other people think so too. Shoot, the New York Times has written seven articles on Kaavya already, and several of them were on the front page. Enough with the moralising. People want to talk about this stuff, and this is the story that keeps on giving (what is it, four or five books now?). Those who don't want the painful details don't have to read. But they can't help it. Before you know it, this one will have a hundred comments as well, half of them from people who think there are too many comments on the subject.

Well done Sepia Mutiny! You presented the facts, you were fair minded about it, without defending or condemning her. You guys deserve an award.

Seriously.

Isn't Opal Mehta's family hindu? Why are they eating meat from only halal butchers only?

I guess her family must be gujarati muslims from Chennai.

The bigger food related inconsistancy here, is saying that an Indian-American family (or anyone in their right mind) would make rotis, puris and kheema naan for a single meal.

The level of denial in some of these comments is astounding.

The bigger food related inconsistancy here, is saying that an Indian-American family (or anyone in their right mind) would make rotis, puris and kheema naan for a single meal.

do figure out where did you get your bata.

The level of denial in some of these comments is astounding.

I. Swear. To. God.

We'll get to comment #75, and someone will say, "I'm new here, but I just have to say I think she might have just used similar phrases like we all do all the time. Let's not judge her before we have all the facts."

What, I wonder, would people consider sufficient evidence?

We'll get to comment #75, a

The bigger food related inconsistancy here, is saying that an Indian-American family (or anyone in their right mind) would make rotis, puris and kheema naan for a single meal.

Well done Sepia Mutiny! You presented the facts, you were fair minded about it, without defending or condemning her. You guys deserve an award.

Except me. :)

You bring out a good point though. People who don't want to hear about this anymore (even myself to some extent) don't seem to realize that they are in the minority. For example, my non-Evil persona wrote two posts today about positive role models in the Indian American community, neither of which generated much discussion. The number of comments a post receives is definitely not always an indication of the level ofinterest in a story (it sometimes indicates that what needed to be said was all said in the post :) but it does tell you something. We also don't write about a topic soley to drive site traffic since we don't get paid or benefit in any way whether one person or 20,000 people visit our site in a given day. My point is that most people are NOT in fact sick of hearing about KV.

Maybe they had guests over for dinner or were celebrating something - my mother always goes over the top in such cases..

The level of denial in some of these comments is astounding.

De Nile doesn't only flow through Egypt. :)
[end corny joke]

You bring out a good point though. People who don't want to hear about this anymore (even myself to some extent) don't seem to realize that they are in the minority. For example, my non-Evil persona wrote two posts today about positive role models in the Indian American community, neither of which generated much discussion. The number of comments a post receives is definitely not always an indication of the level ofinterest in a story (it sometimes indicates that what needed to be said was all said in the post :) but it does tell you something. We also don't write about a topic soley to drive site traffic since we don't get paid or benefit in any way whether one person or 20,000 people visit our site in a given day. My point is that most people are NOT in fact sick of hearing about KV.

The level of denial in some of these comments is astounding.

I agree. But, having established that she is a plagiarist, there is this:

So what should be the punishment for stealing someone else's work and passing it off as your own?...For Kaavya Viswanathan, national humiliation has been the answer. It's hard to work up a lot of sympathy for her, too. She won a huge book contract thanks in part to her dishonesty, and her excuse — that she has a photographic memory — doesn't exactly smack of repentance. Still, it is worth remembering that Ms. Viswanathan is only 19 and that a lot of us did stupid things at that age. I'm guessing she will learn her lesson.

Last week's other plagiarist doesn't have this excuse. He is William H. Swanson, the 57-year-old chief executive of Raytheon, the big military contractor, and a board member at Sprint Nextel. Yet his sins have gotten just a smidgeon of the attention that Ms. Viswanathan's have. That is too bad, because in the scheme of things his character matters a lot more than hers does.

Perhaps the fifth post on this topic could help us understand why?

whoops...sorry for the misquote. the last line is obviously mine, not the Times's :)

Except me. :)

Even you, my brother in the dark arts, even you. You may be evil (you didn't go to evil medical school for nothing), but you're fair-minded evil.

Corny Abhi ("De Nile"), on the other hand, that's one desi we can do without...

or it could be most people are sick of another indian who did well in the techie field

The bigger food related inconsistancy here, is saying that an Indian-American family (or anyone in their right mind) would make rotis, puris and kheema naan for a single meal.

OK I thought it was me but I was seriously irritated by some of her attention to detail when I read the book. It made some of the worst kind of mistakes which makes ABCD's I know look like they've been living in India their whole life! She could have done a little bit more research about the foods and habits and names and regional and cultural particularities about the people she was writing about. I mean for petes sake if she's south Indian why the F did she write about about a "gujju" family with no clue about them and no attention given to some obvious details that grate perhaps only to us because we are desi. A white person could care less and not really know.

Let me clarify my point: this entire affair is sordid. Every bit of it, from the possibilities around the creation of this novel, to the behavior of the adults around this young woman. She has not been well served. I am, marginally anyway, an educator. Sometimes I do a good job, sometimes I do a poor one. But those of us in positions of authority must act with a certain standard. Standards matter. I suppose I'm just pissing in the wind moaning about ethics when large contracts are handed out and publishers want to make big bucks with a best-seller. This woman, whatever she has done, is paying plenty. I am ambivalent - I have sympathy and am disappointed at the same time. It's not the most important story in the world, but it is a perfect storm of class, luck, color, priviledge, and innocence (or innocence lost).

I don't want this young woman crucified and if books are parcelled together for easy reading and profit and pleasure, so be it. So bet it. I see nothing wrong with that. But transparency is a wonderful thing.

Indian why the F did she write about about a "gujju" family with no clue about them and no attention given to some obvious details that grate perhaps only to us because we are desi. A white person could care less and not really know.

GGK, you have always been unintelligible to me but especially so of late. Maybe the fact that I am a "libbie-demleaning" "techie" doesn't allow me to properly relate to you.

I swore swore swore not to post on anything KV related but I can't take it anymore!!! What is with our ability to transfix on anything shiney for hours on end? KV's real life saga reflects the purpose of the fluff-filled genre she contributes to... so much distraction for such little effort.

The biggest travesty here is not the plagerism because I don't think she's an intentional plagerizer at all. She's a victim of very little imagination and mediocre talent who can soak things up like some kind of sea sponge. She's probably led a very sheltered life, with very little opportunity for actual creative outlet and yet, is able to absorb the experiences and the words and the expressions of those around her with amazing accuracy. She's probably really good at impressions and can repeat conversations verbatim and perhaps doesn't rank too high on the original thought quotient. So essentially, she's perfect for a mass-commodified genre like "chick lit" (without going into the debates of what that entails) because she IS so formulaic. Sucks that unwittingly, she's almost too good at her job.

And can someone please explain to me how she was ever a "much-lauded author"? That's like saying the Backstreet Boys displayed a lot of "talent". Mmm... corporate packaging.

I swore swore swore not to post on anything KV related but I can't take it anymore!!! What is with our ability to transfix on anything shiney for hours on end? KV's real life saga reflects the purpose of the fluff-filled genre she contributes to... so much distraction for such little effort.

The biggest travesty here is not the plagerism because I don't think she's an intentional plagerizer at all.

Dammit, Brownfrown, if only you'd waited till #75 like you were supposed to, you'd have fulfilled all my predictions in one fell swoop. Why don't people ever do what they're told?

She's probably led a very sheltered life, with very little opportunity for actual creative outlet and yet, is able to absorb the experiences and the words and the expressions of those around her with amazing accuracy

Oh, I had also said, Those who don't want the painful details don't have to read. But they can't help it. Before you know it, this one will have a hundred comments as well, half of them from people who think there are too many comments on the subject.

Just messing with ya, brownfrown. But seriously, you don't think she intentionally wha...??

Don't make me come over there and internalize yo ass...

GGK, you have always been unintelligible to me but especially so of late. Maybe the fact that I am a "libbie-demleaning" "techie" doesn't allow me to properly relate to you.

BASTARDS! I'm getting sucked in.

Dammit, Brownfrown, if only you'd waited till #75 like you were supposed to, you'd have fulfilled all my predictions in one fell swoop. Why don't people ever do what they're told?

Papal Mehta, I am so not saying she does what we all do all the time. She's got super-powers that most of us mere mortals do not; a stunted imagination and an uncanny ability to repeat things... parrot-like. So not coming to her defense, just saying she's boring and unoriginal, not a lying plagerizer. The first is almost as unforgivable as the second when you're an author. She should find a new vocation that can make better use of her talents.

Fair enough - but why lie about it? Saying things like "I’ve never read a novel with an Indian-American protagonist" when she clearly has doesn't do much for her cause.

Meh, who knows? Because she's backed into a corner? Because people panick and say stupid things or just forget in their nervousness? Because she's probably as shocked as the rest of us? Oh, who cares? Would she seriously consciously cut and paste novels so that inevitably someone would find out and then she could be publically lynched? The girl is clueless. Ever heard of the desism "mugging"? That's what she's good at, that's what she's been rewarded for her entire life and that's what she did here.

God Dang! Its upto 4 books now isn't it. So much for un-intentional memorization.

Oh, I had also said, Those who don't want the painful details don't have to read. But they can't help it. Before you know it, this one will have a hundred comments as well, half of them from people who think there are too many comments on the subject.

Just messing with ya, brownfrown. But seriously, you don't think she intentionally wha...??

Don't make me come over there and internalize yo ass...

HISS. I will cut you :P

This book seems to have as many plagiarized sources as Sybil had personalities

So not coming to her defense, just saying she's boring and unoriginal, not a lying plagerizer.

No no no. That's still too wily. Come on. Say it. She's a lying plagiarizer. Say it. You know she is, we know she is, and you know you want to say it. Come on, say it. No one's looking. She's A...yes yes that's good...LYING...excellent, we're almost there...PLAGIARIZER.

There.

Now was that so bad?

So not coming to her defense, just saying she's boring and unoriginal, not a lying plagerizer.

No no no. That's still too wily. Come on. Say it. She's a lying plagiarizer. Say it. You know she is, we know she is, and you know you want to say it. Come on, say it. No one's looking. She's A...yes yes that's good...LYING...excellent, we're almost there...PLAGIARIZER.

There.

Now was that so bad?

No no no. You're giving her way too much power. She's just a very good student. A for effort. Expected to outperform everyone else consistently - especially when it comes to school work and aceing science tests. Lacks a certain creativity. Should work with ledgers or be a stenographer - stay away from story-writing.

I vote for the hodgepodge theory. I don't know if there was a conscious plagiarism, but the way this girl's mind soaks up and squeezes out what she's read in the past (near verbatim) is astounding. She'd make a fantastic lawyer.

NEEL!!! SERIOUSLY NOT COOL!!! DONT HATE ON THE LAWYERS!

and... i actually went online and bought 'the book' last night... i'm kind of psyched to read this mish mash of every single chic lit book ever written. i vote she wins some sort of cool award for plagarizing in a totally new and ridiculously innovative way--not just from one source but MANY! and not just in one way but MANY! that's sort of a gift in itself...

Guys. I've joined the I'm-really-sick-of-this camp. In fact I've been there for a while. So as a token of good faith, I offer you something I spent a few minutes doing on the agreement we leave Opal be.

Do we have a deal?

Give it a rest already, willya? How long is SMgoin to flog this dead horse? She screwed up, got caught, ruined her career...move on, please. There's gotta be more interesting stuff happening in Brownworld.

i know she totally plagiarised, and now from another brownie which is just not a-okay and a completely terrible thing to do:

but kaayva comes from a place we can all understand and this is the backdrop she has behind her:

-the famous crab story and its place within the indian psyche

-bollywood borrowing

-a totally unoriginal literary genre based on stereotypes and tropes

-corporate, commercialised 'publishing houses' that are really just huge media conglomerates

-a cultural identity crisis

-immigrant pressure to achieve the american dream

-high pressured academic environment

-high pressured family environment

-freakin high pressured community environment a la those mothers off 'goodness gracious me' with the 'my son's a doctor' saga

-90% of overachieving kids from the same ethnic group going on to either law school, med school, or the corporate sector

no i'm not making excuses for what she did, i'm just saying let's look at where she came from before she made them. yes she's a rich little new jersey girl.

but rich or poor the above factors make for one very screwed-up kid who obviously let the pressure get to her. we've watched her die, how many times will we ressurect her so we can see the whole ugly thing replayed again?

They need to lock her up and threw away the key. This is looking even more disturbing now that she somehow copied three books. Sneaky little girl.

And btw, why do people insist that Kaavya is a American? She was born in India and raised in
Scotland before moving to the States. Where does the American part fit in?

This has taken the term 'twisting the knife' to a whole new level.

Just watched the video..the girl is beautifffffffffffffffffffffful.....
Plus, I am sick of world where everything is "copy-right" and "intellectual property ought to be protected". All creative works should be Copyleft.

I predict that The Harvard Crimson will get the Pulitzer for Investigative Journalism next year. Finally, something to celebrate at Harvard.

It will only be a tragedy if she lets other people finish her own life story. This morality play reminds me of another Wolfe book, The Bonfire of the Vanities with Kaavya, the master of her universe. Like Wolfe's protagonist, an immoral choice leads to a huge fall from a priviliged position. I'm hoping that she may, like the writer of Ecclesiastes, who had everything and declared it all vanity- come to the conclusion that putting God and not herself at the center of her universe, creates order out of chaos. I think her life so far plagiarizes Tom Wolfe's stuff- I am Kaavya Viswanathan, A woman in full and this is the bonfire of my vanity.

You people are pathetic. You're just jealous because she goes to Harvard and has written a book at just 19 and is living an interesting life. Mind your own business and go back to your own boring lives. Don't you have a patient to attend to?

Don't you have a patient to attend to?

Yes! An English patient!

actually, she never admitted to intentionally plagiarizing. she said she "internalized" ( my new FAVORITE word) it all, which makes me think she should be working for NASA or something with that photographic memory. I mean, c'mon, that internalization has to be put to better use than chick lit novels. and enlighten me if i'm wrong, but isn't it harder to actually compile all these various chick lit passages into one book, rather than just write your own novel??

You people are pathetic. You're just jealous because she goes to Harvard and has written a book at just 19 and is living an interesting life. Mind your own business and go back to your own boring lives. Don't you have a patient to attend to?

There's an idea. Maybe Viswanathan should have studied plastic surgery. Cutting and pasting is actually encouraged in this field.

'Isn't Opal Mehta's family hindu? Why are they eating meat from only halal butchers only?'
many hindus in india eat halaal meat because the butchers are mostly muslim.. and many young meat-eaters do not realize that the meat is halaal. the older generation has come to respect, not just accept this practice.
my question is: the name kaavya vishwanathan suggests a brahmin- what would she know about meat being cooked at home? well, it isn't her but opal mehta who's reminiscing: so why does opal mehta talk about' I remembered cold baths from a bucket with a plastic dipper, and sweet, oily badam halva from the nearby Chola hotel.' chola hotel? did someone mention'a gujarati from chennai' in a previous post? i'm not even sure kv knows the surname mehta could be either gujarati, punjabi or.. most likely,she doesn't know india at all. 'I remembered the cold, creamy taste of fresh buffalo milk, Babaji pouring Ovaltine from one tin cup to another until froth bubbled thickly on the surface and it was cool enough to drink.' ovaltine isn't being sold in india for more than three decdes now (as far as i know). at least, no one kaavya's/opal's age could possibly remember anything about being served ovaltine..
the point is :'So, either she hasn't written the book at all and she is honest about not having read a novel with an Indian-American protagonist, but lying about having written the book, or she did write every word of the book and copied a whole lot. Including material from a type of novel she had never read about.'

let her be.

Free Kobe

which makes me think she should be working for NASA or something with that photographic memory.

Whatever. Those NASA geeks are overrated.

Can someone please discuss political significance of Tony Blair wearing sacred thread.

I am sick of this.

Regards

NEEL!!! SERIOUSLY NOT COOL!!! DONT HATE ON THE LAWYERS!

all mixed up:

I am a lawyer. I'm entitled to be self-loathing. And I wished I had that magical internalization power when I studied for the bar exam.

let her be.

No.

... ovaltine isn't being sold in india for more than three decdes now

I think I had Ovaltine when I went to India a few years ago... but it may have been Horlicks, I can't be sure.

The breadth of the coverage of this in the media surprises me... this doesn't strike me as all that important in the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if she gets to keep the range...

There's an idea. Maybe Viswanathan should have studied plastic surgery. Cutting and pasting is actually encouraged in this field.

Zing!

Papal, thank you. I agree.

Yes, whether you hate the Kaavya posts or not, you can't help but post your "I'm so sick of this" comments...why? Are you really sick of this? Really? Are you? Because I'm just going to assume that if you keep clicking the "Continued" button on each of Abhi's posts, then you're not sick of this at all. In fact, you're probably sitting at your computer right now wondering if we find out anything else about Kaavya, about what happens to her, etc. But that's okay, nay, it's human instinct. It's human instinct to care about what happens to her. She's South Asian; most of us are as well. But we're all genuinely concerned with this issue not only because of the fact that it's deeply impacting one South Asian American, but because this can potentially impact the rest of the South Asian American youth that are potentially being discouraged from writing as we speak (or, in this case, type).
Listen (or, in this case, read), these posts will continue to appear as long as Kaavya's story is important. So please, if you don't care about Kaavya's story, use your commenting privileges to talk about a post you do care about. Wouldn't that be a better use of everyone's time?

On an actually Kaavya-related note:
If we're really up to four different chick-lit books that she's (apparently accidentally) memorized word-for-word, then I'm the queen of England. Isn't there some law that says the answer that makes the most sense, or is the simplest, is quite often the correct answer to your problem?

peace, all :)

Isn't there some law that says the answer that makes the most sense, or is the simplest, is quite often the correct answer to your problem?

Thanks, bengali. Good to know.

Oh, and I should have added that manish posts stuff on Kaavya, too. Thanks, Manish.

Bengali
Quite a few hindus in the south are so used to halal that they find the taste of jhatka unappetizing. I used to drive thirty miles one way to get lean halal meat.

Dakhini:

Quite a few hindus in the south are so used to halal that they find the taste of jhatka unappetizing. I used to drive thirty miles one way to get lean halal meat.

hm, if we must expose and condemn bad things brown people do, aren't there plenty of really mean, vicious things that are way more deserving of such voracious contempt than a 19-year-old plagiarist? just wondering, cuz i haven't seen any major effort to bring light to brown individuals committing things like rape, spousal battery, or hate crimes, for example, while people having been intent on trashing this chick since even before the plagiarism stuff got out.

re: halal meat, my family is hindu (west side- maharashtrian) and we make special trips to buy it because my parents prefer the goat meat.

Since this could have been me, if I had decided to pursue invention, that is creative interpretation, rather than straight journalism, I think she deserves everything she's getting. If she had love or respect for literature, (and I do count the stupid-but-fun YA books under that category, since I cut my little desi-lit eye-teeth on Born Confused before moving on to Ghosh and Rushdie and Naipaul) she would have fessed up when it became obvious she might be on the road to the Next Big Thing. I do feel bad that a character flaw, that was probably painted over and excused by people around her who should have been more responsible, might end up ruining her future career.

Although, I'm sure she can make like the Bollywood starlets we love so much, and do some kind of astrological work-up on her name, add some extra consonants and she'll be a whole new person, quite literally.

More similarities to other works:

http://www.harvardindependent.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=9964

I don't understand all the "I'm so sick of this..." or "can't we talk about something else?" posts. Sepia Mutiny is not an on-going conversation where you have to sit and listen to each person express their comments sequentially before moving on to the next topic. If you're REALLY not interested in discussing the topic, don't click the link to any Kaavya-related stories! It should be obvious that people are interested in this story from all the comments being posted.

I think part of the reason there are so many comments isn't because what Kaavya did is so horrible, it is because there are so many people trying to make excuses for her or somehow rationalize what she did. The reason why there aren't more comments on stories about people who've done worse things than Kaavya is because you don't see commenters defending them.

Bengali
For some reason most of my outward flight tickets were booked by travel agents(I'm based in India), and they usually assumed I was hindoo veg(maybe the sacred thread was visible). And *every* return journey was on Emirates(thankfully!).

I agree! It is time we move on. Yes, she did make a mistake. Yes, she will pay for it. Her literary career will never ever be the same. And I am sure she wishes that she could turn the clock backwards. I am sure she did not crave for 500Gs and celebrity status while she was popping her pimples.

Be as it may, we do not have to spend the rest of our waking life dwelling on the same issue. I am sure all of us agree. I am sure manish and others wish they had 500Gs in their wallets too. I am sure their vision of a perfect pre-teen successful female Indian writer has been shattered. How unfortunate.

Now let go. Move on. There will be others that you can rip apart.

Now let go. Move on.

Instead of lecturing us on what we ought to find interesting, how about you just not read what doesn't interest you. Thank you.

I am sure she did not crave for 500Gs and celebrity status while she was popping her pimples.

Be as it may, we do not have to spend the rest of our waking life dwelling on the same issue. I am sure all of us agree. I am sure manish and others wish they had 500Gs in their wallets too

Of the three things you're so sure of, Vijit, two are untrue and one is irrelevant. As Uncle Killa says, feel free to look elsewhere.

It's true that a lot has been said on this subject already, but who know what gifts our young friend still has in store for us? There may yet be other sources for her liftings, and that's quite interesting...

i like big butts and i cannot lie

Instead of lecturing us on what we ought to find interesting, how about you just not read what doesn't interest you. Thank you.

:+:

wrt the whole "I'm sick of reading this" sentiment, for those vociferous "Then quit commenting!"-types. enjoy.

:+:

---------: hey. ur anna fr sepia rt?

politicaldesi: yes.

---------: sick of all this opal isht

politicaldesi: sorry. it's very popular, i know there's been a lot of it, half of us are covering it, etc.

---------: lol

---------: i said i was sick of it and tehy were all STOP COMMENTIN THEN lol

politicaldesi: well, they have a bit of a point.

---------: nah. their wrong.

politicaldesi: how so?

---------: theirs nothin else to read! teh other isht is soo boring. politics and isht. its like doin homework. lol.

politicaldesi: you find politics boring?

---------: yeah

politicaldesi: you have read my screenname, correct?

i like big butts and i cannot lie

of course, my comment HAD to come after THAT. ;)

Ananthan,

I think I had Ovaltine when I went to India a few years ago... but it may have been Horlicks, I can't be sure.

Sounds like "Bournvita", buddy ;)

First-- thanks Manish! I was waiting for somebody to come out with the comparison to Born Confused.

Second--

And can someone please explain to me how she was ever a "much-lauded author"? That's like saying the Backstreet Boys displayed a lot of "talent". Mmm... corporate packaging.

I don't think KV was ever "much-lauded", so much as "much-talked-about" based on the honorarium, etc. Just like Backstreet Boys.

However, those brothers dance a lot better than KV seems to be doing... ;)

but perhaps in more troubling matters, is it commonplace to add sour cream to raita?? As an pretty jammin' cook, I gasp at the thought.

As an pretty jammin' cook

Desidancer [#102] - That is a very valid concern indeed. I can't help but think that any such connocyion would ruin the taste of the sour cream *and* the raita.

But what has me worried is this:

The table creaked with the weight of crisp, brown rotis and feather-light, puffy puris

I wonder what was in those rotis to make the table creak so? The puris after all were feather light....or maybe, just maybe, there was a problem with the table?

i like big butts and i cannot lie

of course, my comment HAD to come after THAT. ;)

Desidancer,

a lot of people i know add just a dash of sour cream to many dishes made with yogurt, like raita...but its like a little secret that no one talks about...if you ask someone, (who's not gonna break it down for you), they'll just say my homemade yogurt tends to be very smooth & creamy

to all those fronters, the jig is up, i tell ya :)

I've casually followed the furor over Kaavya and I do think enough is enough. But after seeing her NBC interview with Katie Couric I'm confused.

I can't decipher if (1) Her publishing house handlers trained her SO well to defend her plagiarism with the heartfelt and sincere defense of "internalizing" other writers' words, that she sounds robotically programmed to parrot out this lame explanation. (2) She came up with the "internalization" defense on her own, and genuinely believes it, which is immature at best, and delusional at the very worst. (3) She doesn't give a rat's ass about getting caught with her chaddis down and is offering up a banal and half-hearted explanation of what she did.

Her literary career may be over for now, but perhaps she will resurface in 5-10 years or so, a wizened and more cynical version of the youthful teen, to write a blistering novel about a young Indian-American author who writes a fake book, gets caught, has her life ruined, and picks up the pieces as a young twenty-something reclusive doctor.

Call it "How Kaavya V. Got Caught, Lost Her Life, and Got It Back Again Like A Phoenix Rising From the Ashes." That's the Marion Barry defense... watch, she will be back in 5 years time like the erstwhile former DC mayor after he we busted for smoking crack with a hooker.

dhaavak I think the thing with living yo-gurt is that you can make lots from one batch of the bacteria whatnot, you just have to leave a bit over each time. Is that right?

I just made myself laugh. Me talking about cooking, hohoho. Hey DD do jammin cooks make jam? Because I have a theory that all jam-makers are psychopaths.

I'm also devastated no one liked my Kaavya-rip-off of Sepia Mutiny banner. Boohoo you heartless folk. May sour cream infect all your raita.

What's so wrong with discussing this? I don't get this sanctimony about being "above discussing this". It's an interesting topic. It's not everyday a freshman at an Ivy League school gets a high dollar book deal, only to have it known that the whole thing was just a compilation of other people's work. I would have found this story interesting even if she wasn't brown. Being that she's Indian makes it all the more interesting because we have all seen this sort of ambitious person that is willing to do anything to get where they want (I've seen a lot of cheating Indians).

Moreso, I have no idea how anyone can still believe she's not a lying plagerizer. She's obviously not creative and has no originality, but it makes me suspicious when she's used a hodgepodge of passages from SEVERAL books...I mean, it's as though she's writing a story for a middle school creative writing class. Hell, even then atleast I wrote my own damn story (even if it was complete crap).

I wanted to add to the other post that I didn't mean to imply that most Indians are cheaters or liars. But I meant that we've all seen this sort of personality before (of all races) that is willing to do what she can, ethics be damned.

I'm also devastated no one liked my Kaavya-rip-off of Sepia Mutiny banner. Boohoo you heartless folk. May sour cream infect all your raita.

Somebody tell Kaavya to take Angelina Jolie's offer to get away from all this and spend a few months in the resort in Namibia that she and Pitts have occupied.

I'm also devastated no one liked my Kaavya-rip-off of Sepia Mutiny banner.

Hey hey hey, I've thought of a link between Kaavya Viswanathan and sour-cream/yoghurt condiments...

Paperback raita!

I hope you're all Beatles fans. Or William Rhodes'. Yes! I made a literary joke! w00t!

Paperback raita!

Almost funny. So close.

But, no. Opal never made it to paperback. *sigh*

Just so you know Salmaan & Megan ... When the game is over the king, queen and the pawn end up in the same box.

Not sure if this was posted already/elsewhere, but it's enough to make a book-lover cry:

The convoluted authorial structure of Alloy books is anything but transparent. “To me, all that stuff is such a black box,” said one author who has worked with the company. “They have writers who don’t exist, and they have writers who don’t really write the stuff, and they have one series supposedly by one author that are by many. There’s no one-to-one alignment between anything that gets produced and the producer. There’s no literary accountability.” Alloy also has a reputation among writers for not always sharing its successes with the underlings who contributed to them. A case in point, often repeated as a cautionary tale among Y.A. authors, is the story behind one of the book packager’s most lucrative hits, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

Ooooh - like Nancy Drew!

Almost funny. So close.

That officially makes it the funniest joke I've ever made!!!!!one one one

Papal Mehta, you've made my day. And your name reminds me of the pontiff.

I hope you're all Beatles fans.

As an aside, I love this photo of KV.

Side B of the Rubber Soul. "What Goes On" "Girl" "I'm Looking Through You" "In My Life" "Wait" "If I Needed Someone" "Run For Your Life"

There is a message somewhere there.

Holy sheeeet. Now that's brilliant.

As an aside, I love this photo of KV.

Smokin'!

BB: the admiration is mutual (a medic AND a breaker? Damn!). Do your thing son.

Ennis you dirty boy, she's a youngster. I reckon the oldest a guy can be to have an interest in her is...ooh 24 or so. Just picking a number out of the air. I prefer her other ones, this one gives her a bit of prognathism.

I submitted this comment in response to the Harvard Crimson's editorial today that argued for expelling Kaavya. The Crimson censored all but two paragraphs of my letter.

Their article: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513317

---

You guys are disgusting. To attack the girl at this point, for something that has nothing to do with school, is purely sadistic. Kaavya is not responsible for promoting the book in this way, and it is intellectually dishonest of you to implicate her in that. She behaved precisely as any of us, or any young person, would have: She was excited and she permitted the publisher and packager to substantially change her book, sell it under her name, and promote it in the obvious way. Your self-righteous tone throughout this editorial is entirely undeserved. It is worth recalling the obvious fact that we still do not have any idea who is responsible for this relatively minor infraction, and it might very well be the case that two large companies that would likely face ruin if their full involvement became clear have pressured her into taking the fall. In any case, even if she did the borrowing herself, which seems improbable for a variety of reasons, it is a small offense. No one will defend copying, but to borrow adjectives, girl-talk, and sentence structure for at most 0.5-1% of her book is far from the great crime you make it out to be.

And as for Harvard’s values, give me a break. Harvard’s values were compromised long ago, as you well know. Dozens if not hundreds of genuine criminals, from Admiral Yamamoto to Henry Kissinger to George W. Bush, to arbitrarily select just three, have been educated at Harvard. Few outrages in our country, from the Enron scandal to the lies about WMD, fail to involve a Harvard man. We routinely admit people, either as graduate and professional students or as speakers, with backgrounds in criminal regimes, sometimes even the people engaged in carrying out the atrocities. Just in the last few months, Harvard Law has hosted and considered hiring people accused of war crimes. There are no real values left here to defend. Harvard is a great institution, a place where brilliant people can come together to discuss important happenings, and I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t allow even these criminals to come here, join us, and speak to us. But to pretend that Harvard stands on high principles and distinguishes right from wrong is comical. There are undoubtedly a thousand Harvard grads a day who do something incomparably worse than what Kaavya is accused of doing. Perhaps you’d like to advocate taking back their degrees?

Every so often, a monstrous event reminds us of the sickness, moral and intellectual bankruptcy, profound political disorientation, and outright sadism of American society. The current media assault on Kaavya surpasses even the Terri Schiavo incident in this regard. The pattern is unmistakable: the American media lines up unanimously (always a sign that it’s wrong) in channeling its collective anger and collective stupidity on a single, entirely undeserving target. Someone is chosen almost at random, someone whose acts are out of all proportion to the campaign of denunciation. Every hack writer, every obedient fool who has never once uttered an original or oppositional thought, from the Crimson staff up to yesterday’s empty and mindless NY Times editorial by John Kenney, joins self-righteously in the campaign, foaming at the mouth with ignorant and grotesque rage. Silent on every real injustice of any significance, they explode with fury on this trivial issue, whether out of genuine political confusion or out of a conscious and malicious desire to promote ignorance and disorientation among the population. The darkest and ugliest instincts of the American people are thus called forth, and soon a frenzy of stupidity and monumental sadism begins. Kaavya Viswanathan, born in India and raised in Scotland, has had thrust upon her the burden of American society’s collective sins, its decadence, its anger, its confusion, its hatred, and perhaps above all, its complete lack of any rational or progressive outlet for the legitimate hostility that millions of average people feel toward what is happening in their country.

The content of every editorial the Crimson has written in the five years I've been here at Harvard has been nothing but a plagiarism of the official attitude of the big business media, or at most the right wing of the Democratic Party. That a publication that lives solely on cowardly subservience to the views of its future employers, parroting them relentlessly on every major political question, would accuse another student whose crime -- if it is her own -- consists of borrowing descriptions, is outrageous. We have an odd view of plagiarism and of intellectual honesty in general if we think that copying adjectives and the silly mutterings of teenage girls is a more serious offense than the prostituting one’s mind in the service of power and parroting the official attitude on every issue of significance.

Furthermore, to bring this up yet again, why don't you cowards call for Dershowitz to be run out of town? He stole the research of another writer and passed it off as his own research. But more than that, he knowingly stole from a fraudulent, pseudo-academic work, a book inspired by a desire to lie in the interests of a racist outlook. When presented with indisputable evidence that he had stolen research from this vile book, Dershowitz called his accuser an anti-Semite and a lunatic, insisted that passing off the research of others as your own, without acknowledging where you found the references, is standard academic practice, and told the media he thinks this sort of dishonesty is ‘funny.’ Just because Kaavya can’t file a frivolous lawsuit against you or denounce you as a Nazi does not give you any right to attack her and not him. Dershowitz’s crime is considerably more serious, as it is both of an explicitly academic nature and is an attempt to deceive for deliberate political purposes. It also, needless to say, is sold on the basis of his personality and his Harvard ties.

Finally, shame on Salman Rushdie for joining this repulsive bandwagon. Mr. Rushdie, for those who still imagine him to be a great left-wing South Asian intellectual, has in the last four years joined the chorus of corrupt ex-liberals who have been cheerleading for Bush's criminal war in Iraq. In the process, Rushdie's tortured justifications for starting and now continuing a war of mass murder, torture and rape have parroted all of the oldest lies in the imperialist book. His political writings on the subject, like yours, are nothing but a plagiarism of every act of intellectual prostitution for the ruling classes, every word muttered by apologists for centuries. There are no novel thoughts or ideas here, and if we are to speak of plagiarism, this is plagiarism of a far more serious sort. Apparently too cowardly to speak the truth about and condemn a monstrous and criminal war, Mr. Rushdie has suddenly found he has the courage to go on TV and lend his prestige to denouncing a defenseless 19-year-old girl. You’re a brave man, Mr. Rushdie.

Not to be a heretic, but dont know if Rubber Soul holds up as well as Pet Sounds. But 'In My Life' is elegant and beautiful.

And these memories lose their meaning When i think of love as something new Though i know i'll never lose affection For people and things that went before I know i'll often stop and think about them In my life i love you more

sirc - you're killing me here :-)- but i did list the b-side, usually the overflow - still exquisite tho' - of course, it isnt the music - but the remembrances of things past that we cherish, no - i once had a girl, or should i say she once had me ... and boy - did she have me - chuckle - i think i could write a novella with beatles lyrics

For all the beatles fans, the decider song, if you haven't heard it yet. link

That was a corker SG. dhaavak, please write that novella made of Beatles lyrics, that's plagiarism we can all enjoy.

The Crimson censored all but two paragraphs of my letter.

You should have done yourself a favor and just censored yourself. Drivel.

i wouldn't call it drivel-- i'd call it a future blog post. the most successful "letters", i.e. the ones which get published, are usually a bit shorter, to accomodate tiny attention spans. i do think they were probably killing some of your better points, but they (and evilAbhi) will just call it "editing".

so? have you chosen your blog's name yet? :)

The Crimson censored all but two paragraphs of my letter.

It's not censorship when you go over 1,000 words for a letter :)

Seriously WIlliam Morris and Walsh has LOT to answer for..

______________________________

Ms. Walsh and the rest of William Morris’ literary department do a great deal of business with Alloy, which involves some complicated accounting. In the case of Opal Mehta, Ms. Walsh would have taken her standard 15 percent of Ms. Viswanathan’s reported $500,000 two-book deal, which works out to $75,000 for Ms. Walsh. It could be argued that William Morris was not necessarily representing Ms. Viswanathan’s best interests by sending her to a company that could potentially take 30 to 50 percent of the advance as well.

“To my mind, there is no conflict of interest,” Ms. Walsh said. “The relationship between the book packager and the author are very similar to the collaboration between two authors, or between an expert and an author, in that their interests are completely aligned in the project.”

Uhhh..."Harvard," if that is your real name, George Bush went to Yale, not Harvard. I think your left-wing nuttiness is blinding you. Some of those issues you bring up relating to Harvard may be true, but in most cases their evilness occured after they went to Harvard. You can toss out Dershowitz, though. Good riddance.

I'm guessing the Kaavya issue regards the fact that she is a current matriculated student and the fact that HARVARD has been affiliated with her and the book so tightly that one would assume the title of the book is How Opal Got Into Harvard. All you hear is HARVARD HARVARD HARVARD.

So the Crimson is likely advocating that the university circle the wagons and throw the girl out, that way they can continue to perpetuate the myth that a quality educational institution is based solely on merit, rather than money, connections, class, and nepotism.

I submitted this comment in response to the Harvard Crimson's editorial today that argued for expelling Kaavya. The Crimson censored all but two paragraphs of my letter.

Seriously, does everything have to go back to the war in Iraq? I think you're confusing the popularity of this issue with how much value people put in it.

You should have done yourself a favor and just censored yourself. Drivel.

Ditto.

Uhhh..."Harvard," if that is your real name, George Bush went to Yale, not Harvard.

Yale AND Harvard (for graduate school). But he wasn't a President back then, either. So unless Harvard goes back to the future on his ass, they don't even have a case to 'expell' the President.

People are trying to sell this book as a collectible now. Check out Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0316059889/ref=buy_pb_n_/104-3864403-4688704?condition=new

wonder what happened to Jayson Blair and the NYT scandal...looky here...

Here he says:

"The scandal's over now, and I'm alone," he continues, quieter. "There's a great sense of loss in my life. Out of all the sources and colleagues and friends I had in New York I can count on the fingers of one hand the people I still have contact with. There's only one person at the Times. You have a life and... it's crushed in your hand." He pauses. "By my own hand I should say, again."

Wonder if this will happen to KV?

Anyone read Babyji by Abha Dawesar? It happens to be about a young desi girl who gets kissed, gets wild, and gets into Harvard (kinda...it's implied). It's fabulous...totally original, intelligent, and gorgeously written. But no, I seriously doubt that KV lifted the plot from this one!

As a long time reader of Sepia Mutiny I am disappointed to see a post of such intellectual shallowness as this on here. The analysis presented above is no evidence of plagiarism at all -- it looks more a case of Rumsfeld-type over-zealous witch-hunting or whatever. And I'm saying this even after I'm convinced of plagiarism in the other instances (as demonstrated in the comparisons with passages from Megan McCafferty's, in the Harvard Crimson articles and elsewhere).

Anyone even remotely South Asian has probably heard or read phrases like "smelled of spices," "melted like butter on the tongue", "puffy-puris" a hundred times before in their lives! Seriously, enough already.

The analysis presented above is no evidence of plagiarism at all

Elihu, if I may ask, what do you do for a living? Does it involve evaluating evidence? Does it (I tremble to ask) involve making decisions, based on the presented evidence, that could affect the lives or livelihoods of others?

Cause I'm very confused here....??? I'm not trying to diss you. I'm just truly mystified.

Do you see that, applying elementary principles of statistical probability, the later of these two texts is incontrovertibly derived from the earlier?

William Morris takes 10%, it's standard across all formats and genres for the agency.

Dhavaak- if you have even a teaspoon of "active" yogurt left, it's enough to start breeding bacteria for a new yogurt. Yeah, the boiling milk and crap is tedious. I tried to make paneer once and was disgusted by the waste of milk and my time. ;)

I wonder what was in those rotis to make the table creak so? The puris after all were feather light....or maybe, just maybe, there was a problem with the table?

ooh, big yucky mixed metaphor! See, that's what happens when writers stick to cliches and easy-outs. But there could be a problem with the table-- because any desi dad worth their salt would never FIX the broken table ;)

if she wanted a mercedes, all she had to do was ask her parents

Kaavya's Chewbacca defense ??

Thanks for your responses. To clarify what I meant about censoring my comment, I posted it on the Crimson's web response feature; I didn't submit it as a letter to the editor (they print those only occasionally, and it would obviously be too long for that). I see no justification for going through and censoring specific paragraphs of web posts, as there are no space limitations, and it is especially suspicious when they cut the parts critical of their argument and of their publication.

To Jerkus: I'd like to know what you mean by my "left-wing nuttiness." Do you mean thinking that mass murder, torture, rape, and other atrocities are more serious than copying imagery from a teen novel is a crazy view? Regarding your other argument, certainly the alums committed their crimes after graduation (although they could have their degrees taken away), but we routinely allow people with very dark pasts to enroll as students in the graduate and professional schools, speak at University functions, donate money, and even join the faculty.

To GujuDude: Thanks for correcting Jerkus's mistake, but it's a shame you don't have any arguments for dismissing my response.

To Evil Abhi: You didn't say anything intelligent, so I really have no response to you.

dhaavak
....do you know how to make eggplant bharta without using a ton of oil.

sigh.... whats the point, eh? Eggplant bharta without the mandatory inch thick layer of oil has no reason to exist.

The analysis presented above is no evidence of plagiarism at all...

The phrases are in exactly the same order in both passages.

Take the probability of a specific sequence of head or tail coin tosses, say: HTTHHHHTHT
It's 0.5 to the power 10, i.e. 0.01%.

Now instead of a 1 in 2 probability of a head or tail, substitute the 1 in 10 probability of a particular word in a specific phrase (and 1 is 10 is generous-- it's more like 1 in 100).

0.1 to the power 10 yields a 0.00000001% chance that this is a coincidence.

This isn't exact since the first is independent probability (coin toss 2 does not depend on toss 1) while the second is dependent (the preceding phrases narrow the possibilities for later phrases), but the point is, there's no way it's coincidence.

'sigh.... whats the point, eh? Eggplant bharta without the mandatory inch thick layer of oil has no reason to exist.'
dakhni,
like mirchi ka salan without the mirchi, right?

Manish (147#)

Incomplete Analysis.

The choice of words, structure of paragraph and thesme of work is also dependant on genre.

I guess Chick Lit as a genre severly limits the range of words to choose from.

Regards

mirchi ka salan

Or "vegetable" biryani. Is that an oxymoron?

I guess Chick Lit as a genre severly limits the range of words to choose from.

You guess wrong, which is why there are hundreds of non-plagiarists working in the genre.

From the New York Observer:

According to William Morris sources, Ms. Viswanathan first signed with agent Suzanne Gluck, who then passed the author to a junior agent in her office. The junior agent worked with Ms. Viswanathan and eventually hit a wall in terms of developing a commercial proposal. The junior agent then suggested that the writer speak with Josh Bank at Alloy. The Opal Mehta idea emerged from Ms. Viswanathan's conversations with Mr. Bank; once an outline was ready, it was decided that another William Morris agent, Jennifer Rudolph Walsh, would try to sell it to publishers, which she did, to Little, Brown.

The details don't really matter. Notice how this has everything to do with publishing, and high advances, and fancy New York agents, and "deals," but nothing to do with writing.

i don't support the extent to which people are against KV as i believe its just scapegoating and hating just makes ya grumpy...

but i can't believe people are trying to say she didn't plagiarise!

i hate chick lit and have only read one of those kinds of books, but that doesn't mean there wasn't copying...

there clearly was. whether she intended to/whether it was really her (but she still put her name to it) and whether its really such a big deal are different issues.

but those passages are too similar for people to play devil's advocate and bank on that 0.0000000001% chance of it bein an amazing coincidence. get real.

Those still claiming there's no plagiarism are taking a pointless stance since the author has already granted plagiarism, just not that it was intentional.

I hope to sit across the table from y'all in a business deal some day. Innumeracy, illogicality and deep denial are useful in a negotiating opponent. I'll take your money and send you crying home to mommy :)

Manish (151#)

How much variation, besides ethnic flavours, is possible in a narrative which starts with a protagonist who is a confused , angst ridden (on crossroads!) teenage girl and end with her self discovery, and which in most cases aims at heart and not at brain.

Regards

PS By the way I never said that KV is not an "intentional" plagiarist, I said your analysis in incomplete which is different.

How much variation, besides ethnic flavours, is possible in a narrative...

Once again around the merry-go-round. Look, Manish's analysis is fine.

Gaurav (and our other statistical geniuses), you weren't dropped when you were very young, were you? Because this is so damn straightforward. This material has no emotional content: it's very very easy to show that *this* was taken from *that.* If you can't see that, if you can't separate out the emotional content and see this simple statistical fact, then you should call Oxford or IIT or Northern Podunk State or wherever you went to school and ask for your money back. Cause you've been had.

Innumeracy, illogicality and deep denial are useful in a negotiating opponent.

Yo Vij, let me know when that business negotiation happens. I'm always up for a turkey shoot.

"you weren't dropped when you were very young, were you?"

Papal,
why the need for insults?

This only adds fuel to the fire that those "against" KV are only doing it b/c they like bashing people. IMO, the facts speak for themselves, but I am curious to know the reasons behind why people still feel it was unintentional; just as Manish presented another reason in his post as to why it was intentional.

The logic behind Manish's analysis is correct, but the application is faulty. I don't think the probability for coincidence is that low [in this one particular passage, before the eggheads jump me...with all the other passages, its most likely much much lower]. But even if it was lower, others will still correctly say, that you cannot prove it for a fact. You may think that is nitpicking, but people often present "mathematical analyses" that's such garbage to support their argument.

With the vast amount of evidence presented up to this point, for some people only the words from KV herself, ironically, will convince them of anything.

'Or "vegetable" biryani. Is that an oxymoron?'
dakhni,
yeah..like hema malini playing mona darling..

anyone read this yet?
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/05/05/kaavya_viswanathan/

manish:
here is a fun proposition

Papal (156#)

I wrote in (155#)

PS By the way I never said that KV is not an "intentional" plagiarist, I said your analysis in incomplete which is different.

I don't mind insults, but please do make an effort to read the whole damn comment before you dish out your excreta on me.

Further to 161#,

For me KV is guilty as hell of lifting out passages.

to all desis who support her - tell me, how many passages in your resume are copied verbatim from others' resume? how many years have you added in fake 'experience' ? how much $$$ have you made from such 'creativeness' ?

Now we know why you think she's fine. helps that she's cute for a desi, too.

some of us would like to think that honesty and ethics and the like still are not entirely lost in this world. Not that desis are not trying..

Dear Sir or Madam:
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After all this talk about Kaavya's plagairism, I was wondering if anyone's ever looked at other YA/teen books to see if they have similar words and phrases, too? If there isn't any at all, then obviously Kaavya either intentionally or unintentionally lifted words from other books. But it would be interesting to put other authors under the same scrutiny - *looking* for similarities - and seeing if we come up with anything. I reserve judgment until then.

On a slightly related note, I googled "wants to be made into," which is one of the later phrases that Kaavya supposedly copied (but *insert animal* wants to be made into *insert product*... obviously my memory is not as good as Kaavya's)... And PETA uses that exact same phrase on its website (animals don't want to be made into *insert product*). So who's copying whom? Is it actually plagairism when multiple authors use the same phrase?

I'm not trying to justify Kaavya entirely, or take a stance on whether what she did was intentional, but in light of all these later similarities I wonder if other authors would also be caught "plagairizing" under such intense scrutiny.

gay