May 18, 2006
The Singing RevolutionaryPolitics
A couple of western media sources recently profiled a Maoist revolutionary from Andhra Pradesh, who calls himself “Gaddar,” after the anti-Imperialist revolutionary movement from the 1910s. Through his powerful folk songs about poverty and political repression, Gaddar has become the police’s biggest nightmare as they attempt to squelch the seemingly bottomless (or at least very deep) well of sympathy for the Maoists in India’s impoverished rural areas.
Maoists have been engaged in a longstanding civil war in rural areas in eastern and southern India, which stands as a stark rejoinder to recent upbeat developments in the cities. It started as “Naxalbari” in the late 1960s, but it has been reborn in the 2000s as the People’s War. It has, by any measure, been an extremely bloody insurgency, which has left thousands of people dead in the past few years. PM Manmohan Singh recently described the movement as the current greatest threat to India’s internal security.
You can hear Gaddar singing in this NPR segment. You should really give it a listen; the guy has a voice. And there is a print version of the article with many of the same details and background at the VOA.
It’s not clear to me whether Gaddar is himself an active “soldier” in the People’s War, or simply a Maoist sympathizer; most articles on him describe him as the latter. What to do about him? On the one hand, his singing ought to be protected as freedom of speech, and the lyrics of the songs in the NPR piece are all about suffering, not incitement to war. On the other hand, isn’t he indirectly inciting people to commit acts of violence simply by supporting the Maoist movement?
amardeep on May 18, 2006 10:45 AM in Politics · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Looking at his wiki profile, its interesting to see that he wanted to become an engineer, that universal brown profession! And from the wee bit of telugu that I have managed to pick up, I understand that his kids are named after the sun, The moon and the stars! Hmmm.. Btw Wiki also mentions that he was prevented from singing in public till recently. So I guess, as far as the law of the land is concerned, he was not "singing" and if he has been, then the law did not know that he was.
Thank you, I didn't think there would be a Wikipedia profile for a notorious Maoist figure.
At the bottom of the Wikipedia page are links to songs he did for Telegu movies! If anyone reading this knows Telegu, it would be great to have some translation help on the content of those film songs...
fantastic post. he is a local legend indeed.
I have learnt one thing - beyond the romantic myths - beware of those who raise the banner of the gun for revolution in India - it always means innocent people will die.
>>Looking at Gaddar's wiki profile, its interesting to see that he wanted to become an engineer
If only he had become one...
If only Hitler had stuck to painting water colors - it's rumoured he was good at it. He would have been an ok painter, married, had children and everyone would have lived happily ever after. But no..he had to go out and save the Aryan race. And millions perished because of that.
If only Che Guevara had stuck to carpentry. He was pretty good at it. His wife and children were happy when he came home smiling every evening. But no.. he wanted to save the workers of the world. He left his family to starve to death, and in the end ended up dead in a ditch in a remote jungle.
If only Stalin had stuck to...
If only Mao had stuck to...
The world is burdened with people who want to ...well, save the world. Just give me a man who does what he's good at, takes care of his family, minds his own business, and lets other mind their own.
M. Nam
The cause of the Naxal movement (violent revolution) was objective at first, but has become an excuse for Maoist to commit violence against the "burgeois government". An element of truth is being exaggerated and used as a tool to propogate an ideology - anti-Imperialist, anti-govt. etc... (and other communist agendas).
If the naxals do have any serious cause of concern with broad people support, democratic procedures should be followed. Instead, since the cause lacks support, Gadar movement resorts to "big-bang", "violent", "anti-Govt" ways to have themselves heard... something like the funda's in RDB.
That is the pattern of most insurgencies and terrorist movements. A grain of truth and legitimate comcern leads to chains of violence that ultimately become self perpetuating - they exist to kill and kill to exist.
I heared this NPR story on "All things Considered" yesterday on radio.
I dont know enough about the Naxal movement to make an intelligent comment. But from the story it appeared that its anti-govt. Now isnt it ironic that India which has a lot of minority rights enshrined in its constitution, will need an armed struggle for minority rights ??
I am not aware, but is Maoist ideology alive in China?? They might be needed more over there.
Ah, one of histories great conundrums: whether one should extend liberal freedoms to those who would use their freedom to destroy liberty. Kinda like democracy giving us a Hitler or Hamas. We know the German solution to this but I think theyve gone too far. Its a judgment call, but I think one must fault on the side of liberty.
MoorNam said:
Maybe what we actually do need is more people to speak up and oppose the forces of tyranny, oppression and repression wherever they may rise and reside? You might not consider fighting tyranny your business, but I certainly consider it mine.
MN - Just curious if you think the same about Gandhi/Nehru, etc...it's one thing to say you agree or don't agree with a person's cause, but quite another to imply that no one should care about making the world a better place and just mind his/her own business.
Gaddar represents 30% of the Indian population living under the poverty line without any visibility , stake or representation in the "development" process. The very rich (feudal landlords and big industrialists) allied to the urban upper middle class has hijacked the "development" process. Anybody travelling in rural India can see the lack of inclusive development which pushes entire families towards big cities and it's slums! There is no political will in India to address the economic and social issues in an inclusive way. We are just aping the West without learning from their mistakes!
Violence is never a solution but it is a symptom of a non-functional "democracy"! And police counter-violence will not solve the deep-rooted problems of social injustice and the lack of empathy ingrained in our caste/class system.
The lack of empathy of some comments is an eye-opener on where each of us stand...
dost & PropaMcGandhi:
I think you're missing MoorNam's point. He's not making an argument against fighting tyranny. But rather posing a rather profound question: How is it that men of clearly great intellect and good intentions can descend into such a madness that they would create various dystopias like the Soviet Union, Castro's Cuba, or Mao's China? It a question for the ages, as Nietzche said: "those who fight monsters must be careful not to become one themselves."
When I wrote this post I was hoping to somehow avoid a debate about whether Maoism is good or evil. Personally, I find it a repellant ideology that has left a lot of corpses littered around the globe. Most people who have studied 20th century history will tell you that it has not proven to be a good path forward anywhere it has been tried.
What interests me about Gaddar is the way he puts a human face on this movement, which for most middle class people is simply a faceless "enemy." It's through the charisma of people like him that you get thousands and thousands of people out at big demonstrations in Hyderabad (where I believe the above photo was taken). If it were just a few isolated guerillas with Chinese weapons, they wouldn't last long. The size of that crowd out in the open tells you something about what the Indian government is dealing with. The Maoists' recent electoral victories in certain regions of West Bengal is also part of it: the rural poor are very, very unhappy with both the Congress Party and the BJP.
Again, I'm not defending him, or his ideology. I'm just saying we need to take seriously an uprising that is verging on going nationwide, with millions of followers and the potential to totally destabilize Indian democracy. Even if it's only a matter of "understanding one's enemy."
Amardeep, thanks for the post. Couple of things I wanted to point out. I think the people's war group (PWG) is older than the 2000s. Growing up in Andhra Pradesh(AP), I remember it making news on a regular basis during the 90s adn late 80s as well. Though the definition of PWG is more vague now with factions that range in their levels of violence. Among the more popular incidents they have been implicated in are, an attempt to kill the previous chief minister of AP Chandra Babu Naidu, assination of K.S.Vyas in, a distinguished police chief, in broad day light. However, as you mentioned, Gaddar's exact affiliation (if there is one) to PWG has always been unclear. Successive state governments of AP have tried and failed to keep him locked up - either for lack of political will or evidence or both. Gaddar dropped out of the engineering school at the Osmania University in Hyderabad. He has a talent for writting songs that contain simple words and straight messages - I think a neccessity for his popularity. It is also not clear that any of his songs incite violence, as matter of fact he considers himself a Gandhian - or so he says. I believe this is still true, a typically visit by him to any city in AP often fills up university stadiums - I also remember traffic problems and rallies. Here are a couple more links from rediff on Gaddar
http://www.rediff.com/news/apr/23gaddar.htm
http://www.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=/news/2005/aug/31spec1.htm
Manmohan Singh is right in saying that Naxalism is a serious problem in India. I do believe that the upbeat news from post-liberalization India is genuine and people's lives across the spectrum have improved and continue to do so. However, it is also true that the contrast in life style (or the perception of it) is starker now. There are sections of the population for whom the recent economic boom has done little - small farmers and retirees come to mind. It is not difficult to imagine why Maoist ideals are popular, and becoming more so, in certain segments of the population.
If I can find enough time, I will post translated versions of a couple of his songs in a later comment.
And in general lot of other clueless people have voted their sympathisers into power
as well as watched them shake their asses on the screen eg Mithun-Gun-Da
Mohan,
You seem to have lot of misapprehensions about people who are well off in a society. Stereotyping seems to be your forte. FYI, there are well off people on this planet who have not inherited their wealth from their forefathers. Another gospel of your kind seems to be that rich make money by exploiting the poor. Both the above statements are true in many scenarios. But they are also equally false in other scenarios. Providing examples about this is beyond the scope of the current discussion.
Gaddar does not represent anybody in the society till he fights in a peaceful, free, and fair election and wins. There are enough sycophants in India who can prop up any joker as their choice and make him/her seem like the new messiah of the poor people. Just because Gaddar goes around singing songs that makes you salivate and soothes your guilty conscience for the poverty around you, does not mean he has the brains to set policies that uplifts Indian poor. A revolution is not needed to lift the poor in India. There are enough realisitic examples in the world that shows that right socio-economic policies, backed by good implementation does more to uplift poor than hare-brained schemes of revolution.
Yes, I lack empathy for people like Gaddar because I know what damage people who can write few lines of soul-searching music or poetry can do to a society in the name of social piety and equality. It is better that they remain poets and musicians and nothing more. Economics and policy development needs more than poetry and good intentions.
Regards,
Anindo,
Sorry for the misunderstanding! I was writing about empathy for the 30% living under poverty line. I made it clear I am against violence.
Regards
Anindo, I find it ironic that you would object to someone overgeneralizing and then use phrases like "your kind." In any case, to play devil's advocate, the analysis of rich poor is better when conducted from a social analysis rather than a personal standpoint. The people, classes, and states who are wealthy today have access to capital that was fostered by a system that relied on colonialism, imperlialism, and slavery, among other things. As a result, the argument is that they owe a historical debt. More over, if you want to be utilitarian about it, you can remove the whole moral and historical debate from this and talk about what would best secure the well being of the poor, as long as it's really about hte well being of the poor. Personally, I don't think the rich can be trusted to voluntarily turn over resources to the poor because that's not how people work--at least in this system.
The definition of exploitation is also an issue--some argue that to the extent that you're pulling profit out of an activity rather than it going either back into the activity or to the people who labored for it, that's exploitation. This is a more technical definition of exploitation that you can contest, but it's not enough to simply say that people are "not" exploiting labor just because they're nice about it. For example, college student basketball players in the NBA may be, dollar for dollar, among the most exploited people in the United States--however that doesn't mean that they're being forced not to have children or worked 18 hours a day or face starvation. Just that other people are making a hell of a lot of money off of them without them seeing adequate return.
Interesting that you all have managed to have a dicussion about Maoism without mentioning the word "Nepal" once at all.
I don't find myself agreeing with MoorNam often, but he has a point. And a simple one at that. It's just that social revolutions tend to be more retrogressive than progressive - especially small ones, with limited appeal, and those that stem from the charismatic personality of one person. These are not sustainable and in the end turn out to be a collosal waste of human capital. The Indian freedom struggle, or for that matter, the American one was a struggle for independence --not a class conflict -- and there isn't much of an option apart from a revolution in such cases since there is very little/no public representation of the colonised among the colonisers.
Apologists for class-based social revolutions presume that the wealthy or the powerful are necessarily corrupt and selfish, and would therefore do nothing to alleviate the living conditions of the poor. Paradoxically enough, Maoism -- and its allied ideologies -- while claiming to give equal rights to the impoverished assume that everyone, including the ones that are newly empowered, will make selffless socially optimal decisions. Thus, inherent to the success of any such grand scheme is the assumption that a bloody revolution at gunpoint will suddenly transform everyone into selfless, responsible citizens. But does a revolution change the culture and attitudes of people? Definitely not.
Oh yeah.... and when will be stop using phrases like 'aping the west' in these contexts? Last time I checked Marxist-Leninist thought was pretty western too. Or does having an asian country adopt it tilt the scales eastward?
Naxalbari zindabad! The revolutionary movement is led by the Communist Party of India (Maoist), which is a merger of the People's War Group and the Maoist Communist Center. It is the main Maoist group in the country. See this magazine that supports the revolutionary movement: www.peoplesmarch.com . The cause of the revolutionaries is just. The Indian government and its landlord gangs are imprisoning tens of thousands of poor peasants in concentration camps to isolate them from the guerrilla army, which they deeply support.
Absolutely Saurav. I don't particularly agree with the notion of 'historical debt' because it raises questions like 'how far back in time do we want to go'? And who's keeping such accounts?
The ideal utilitarian solution would be to create mechanisms such that self serving actions also translate to globally optimal solutions. However, I concede that is far easier to do in theory than in practice. My issue with 'revolutionaries' such as Senor Gaddar above is that they have a roseate post-revolution view of the world where everyone is a niceguy. That hardly ever lasts.
>> What interests me about Gaddar is the way he puts a human face on this movement, which for most middle class people is simply a faceless "enemy." It's through the charisma of people like him that you get thousands and thousands of people out at big demonstrations in Hyderabad (where I believe the above photo was taken). If it were just a few isolated guerillas with Chinese weapons, they wouldn't last long. The size of that crowd out in the open tells you something about what the Indian government is dealing with. The Maoists' recent electoral victories in certain regions of West Bengal is also part of it: the rural poor are very, very unhappy with both the Congress Party and the BJP.
Its not a big deal to have a crowd of several thousand people in India. Hell, I perhaps had a comparable crowd for my wedding. And what electoral victories have the maoists won recently in WB (or anywhere in India for that matter) ? There is a difference between the CPIM and CPI(M) you know :-) hint: They dont like each other a lot, and if given half a chance, will kill members belonging to the other group.
>> What interests me about Gaddar is the way he puts a human face on this movement,
Or does he hide the vicious things that maoists/PWG do in the name of revolution under a veneer of Charisma and half truths ? Vicious things like say blowing up marriage parties in Maharashtra http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/16naxal.htm
Sudeep
It's amazing how quick almost EVERYONE is to dis the Naxalite movement in India and the dreaded "Maoists". Actually, it's really pathetic.
First off, calling them "Maoists" is a ridiculous simplification. Clearly there is a serious Maoist influence, but this is a highly indigenous movement. The movements in Nepal and the "Red Corridor" have fundamentally been generated by the circumstances of what's going on in those regions - violent caste and class warfare.
Second, why the total paranoid fear of armed movements? No revolution ever happened without violence. Not one. Oppression is violent, so often violent action is an appropriate means of fighting that oppression.
It's disturbing to me that many are quick to denounce this as "one's enemy". Who exactly is your friend, then? The Indian government? With an apparent total ignorance of the complexity of these movements, you follow the exact same bullshit rhetoric Bush and his friends do when you denounce them as "terrorists" or speak of insurgencies with such academic, white-liberal-esque disdain.
Oh wait, never mind. It's because of Gandhi, right? Great-Gandhi-whose-holy-name-must-never-be-defiled? And the "philosophy" of nonviolence?
Saurav:>>the analysis of rich poor is better when conducted from a social analysis rather than a personal standpoint.
The analysis of rich poor is verrry convinient when conducted from a social analysis rather than a personal standpoint, because then you would not have to answer...
>>The people, classes, and states who are wealthy today have access to capital that was fostered by a system that relied on colonialism, imperlialism, and slavery, among other things.
Let me roll off the names of some rich folks in India: Laxmi Mittal, Azim Premji, Narayanamurthy, Tendulkar, ShahruhKhan, Subhash Ghai...
What capital did the above people rely on?
M. Nam
Nice over-generalization Ranjit. Here, have some Amul
butter.
Ranjit,
As an example, consider the Telengana region of Andhra Pradesh. The Naxalites are strong there. But other parts of India are backward too. But the Naxalite movement is not strong in those parts. What is it about Telengana that is spawning or sustaining the Naxalites?
Somebody remarked that oppression happens when the one group (the oppressor) controls the resources that rightly belong to another group (the victim). From this point of view, what are the resources of the Telengana region? Who is the oppressor? Can the oppression not be solved if Telengana is made into a state, just like Jharkand was carved out of Bihar, or Uttaranchal out of Uttar Pradesh?
In the questions above, I am merely quoting Telengan as an example. Please feel free to substitute any other Naxalite-infested region instead of Telengana
Amardeep, I guess we have to resign ourselves to the fact that people will misuse the freedom of speech. Much in the same way as the KKK openly marches through streets once in a while -- like they recently did in Austin, TX to support the defense of marriage and the American way of Life.
No, lets substitute one rhetoric for another then. I have known Maoist politicians in West Bengal that routinely offer food and cash for an audience. One would expect people to cut their losses after 30 years of standstill stagnation thanks to what is ironically termed a 'movement'.
As an American, my issue with people who critique them is that sometimes, even when they're calling for the overthrow of the state and even when you don't support the overthrow of the state, their capacity to bring to power the concerns of many of those who are least valued in the state is an important contribution. And without that, those people are lost from the dialectic. Not everyone is meant to design policy but still can be seen to serve a useful and important social role.
I read this mostly from an American perspective, because I've seen what's happened with the total lack of representation for poor people in the U.S. and outside in terms of resource allocation over the past 25 years. Why is there malaria in the third world or poverty among undocumneted immigrants while wealty and middle class people in wealthy countries are getting tax cuts and conducting wars?
I don't know enough about India to answer this question. But in a global sense: infrastructure (roads, electricity, etc.) that allows them to conduct their businesses; foreign or domestic or government investment in the form of direct payment or tax exemptions or access to credit or whatnot; secondary industry that allows them to reproduce and distribute their products; land on which to conduct their products; government credibility to back up the value of their paper money and reinforce their interests; the space to make investments so they can rely on interest income rather than salary, etc.
All of these things are the product of a historical and social process, not "individual" accomplishment.
My point more generally though is that a particular person might go from being extremely poor to extremely rich or vice versa (or both), but there still remains a stratum of powerful people at the top. So it would seem to make more sense to look at this socially rather than through the lens of an individual person's life.
Saurav, apologies about the usage of that word. Lately, I am having too many altercations with the socialists.
I do not believe in paying back historical debts. As DDA pointed out, how far shall we go back and whom shall we accuse. It is an exercise in futility.
Of course, Ranjit will not know anything about non-violent revolutions. He is almost the quintessential definition of a demagogue. Here are few more examples of what I term as revolutions. Ranjit might not agree with me. They did not spill anybody's blood.
http://www.lijjat.com/index1.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shramik_Vidyapeeth
http://fecolumnists.expressindia.com/full_column.php?content_id=87933
http://www.sikshana.org/
DesiDude, I hope you're not generalizing this to include everyone who has ever believed in social transformation that needs to happen outside of the established political channels. There are many, many, strategies, and tactics besdies a "bloody revolution" that will transform everyone. There are lots of thoughtful radicals out there and they come in all stripes--anarchist, social democrats, socialists, etc.--who have ideas about processes of social change that are much more nuanced than this. For example, read Piven and Cloward, Poor People's Movements or look at the work of the Zapatistas.
Manmohan Singh is right in saying that Naxalism is a serious problem in India.
That's quite the understatement. In fact, the PM said that it is the Number One problem facing the country today: more serious that the threat of terrorism, the war in Kashmir or the North East. And I can see why he would say that, with almost 27% of the country's total districts being affected. The government's response so far: a tit for tat policy with the formation of a 'counter revolutionary' force called Salwa Judum. For a comprehensive analysis at the problem, have a look at the May 15 issue of Outlook.
I fully support the vocalisation of their demands. It's not the talk, its the guns I take issue with. For a representative sample, look at Klement's blog. Or Nepal for that matter.
I couldn't resist this offering on SM's 1 yr 9 mo celebrations...
Some Definitions:
The condition of finding yourself compulsively checking posts on SM all day...
SEEPIA MUTINY
When (as just about always) an issue cannot be resolved, we're in the throes of a...
SEPIA MOOTINY
When you lurk much, but post little on SM you're...
DOING A SEPIA MOOH-TINY
Yours with wink
Ms Fink
And yes, oh yes
When issues begin to get too emotional the thread gets reduced to a...
SOAPIA MUTINY!
Well, largely, it's the contemporary and the future that matter more to me. More to the point, "historical debts" are often a vehicle for articulating present day claims (e.g. reparations for slave descendents) that are, at least in part, the result of historical trajectories. States like the United States and Britain and France that have engaged in fairly recent colonialism should arguably be more conscious of their obligations and in that way would ideally be more receptive towards present day fixes.
However, beyond that, we all need to have a historical anaylsis (as well as a social one) if we're going to talk about these issues seriously and so the question you raise is not futile in my mind. It's not about history as time passing as much as looking at the historical development of industry and industrial conditions and appreciating all that went into them. For example, in looking at the development of every city in the Western United States that relied on the railroad to grow, it might perhaps be worth reminding the elites of those cities that their lives might be far different if Chinese and Irish laborers hadn't sufffered to build those railroads.
Messed up my links in the above posts. Here are the correct ones.
Lijjat
Shrameek Vidyapeeth
Indian telecom revolution
Sikshana
Yes, I agree to these points to some extent. That is why we have to create these conditions in India and disruptive movements like Naxalism is not going to let it happen.
Disclaimer: My comment here is naive. I don't have much knowledge on the Naxal movement
I think India has all kinds of problems from day one.. Naxalism was probably there from the 60s.. Yeah they do kill a few policemen / villagers etc.. And then a cyclone kills 10000 people and everyone forgets..
I think after a while Naxalites would get bored and join the mainstream.. If you think about it, Congress is now sharing the government with a Bodo group in Assam that was fighting the govt. with arms just 2 years back.. Democracy (if practised in the true sense) has a way of winning over people.. :-)
I know of a person, I've seen him in my ancestral village who got caught bombing a Nehru statue (of all things) in Tamilnadu for some Tamil Liberation Army (or something). He was in jail for a few years, the last I heard was he joined some computer institute now..
I'm not personally a big fan of guns or violent social conditions, because I'm probably not discreet enough to stay alive :) However, purely from an analytic standpoint, my point is just that vocalization is not always enough to secure a remedy. Just consider Burma or Western Sahara. The question is whether the folks that support Gaddar and that Gaddar supports are facing a situation that's different in kind or just degree.
amardeep,
it is not everyday that i get to see the balladeer gaddar's name in the media. so, thanks. i speak telugu, have been influenced deeply by gaddar's songs, been friends with stringent followers of his word and see very clearly the difference between the song and the gun. gaddar's songs do not explicitly call for violence, thats my opinion at least. he infact replaced the gun that used to carry with a lathi (less dangerous but a symbol of resistance against the man nonetheless). i have translated one of the songs from the film "Rangula Kala" (Dreams of Colour). It is a very literal translation. My poetic lyricism is negligent. This song, incidentally, was written by a very close friend of my family G. Anjaiah.
Bhadram Koduko! Careful son!
Careful Son
My son Komranna
People, son
My son Komranna, (be) a little (careful)
Where one gets on a rickshaw to exiting one to riding one to turning one
People son
My son Komranna, a little (careful)
Our village, yet not ours
our village, yet not ours
this is the City, son
My son Komranna, a little (careful)
People, son
My son Komranna, a little (careful)
Unable to bear the atrocities of big landlords in the village
we have come to the City clutching our stomachs
My son Komranna, (be) a little (careful)
Big Landlords in the village
Big Officers in the City
Their workings are the same
My son Komranna, (be) a little (careful)
In big bungalows
live big snakes
In black markets
live black cobras
Where (four) people meet
lives the God of Death, Yama.
My son Komranna, a little (careful)
The village and the city are the same
We are the only ones to suffer
There are many troubles in the homes (huts) of the poor
But, there is a path that will make your troubles go away
Look at the path, ride your vehicle, move, my son!
People everywhere in the village
People in the City
Uncover your (good) character and join the people
My son Komranna, a little (careful)
Democracy (if practised in the true sense) has a way of winning over people.. :-)
Well said :)
People like gaddar will get elected some day through different set of dynamics.
for that all you can blame are the buffoons who listened to him and do think he has capacity do something.
Certainly not. Look at my Amul example or Anindo's Lijjat example.
People like gaddar will get elected some day through different set of dynamics.
for that all you can blame are the buffoons who listened to him and do think he has capacity do something.
Right, but I don't see any problem with it as long as they get elected in the proper democratic way.. and begin to respect the democratic ideals..
Oh and his sympathy lays with another group and he will encourage them to be
more hardliners(analogous to lal dainga)
>>But, there is a path that will make your troubles go away
Open ended suggestions like this can easily be interpreted as: Go, get a gun, and do something.
M. Nam
where is spoor lam?
Swati, so how does killing police personnel and governement officials elleviate poverty of the villagers? How do guns and knives fill empty stomachs? Why do Gaddar's dont converse without guns? Why are the marxists not radical enough for the Maoists? Why are the 'pro-people' governments not listening or the past 50 years? Is it the democratic India they want or do they claim a part of it (Andhra to Assam)? Or is it just plain old "communism"?
The following could answer most of the above:
Here goes my lunch break. Anyways George Orwell wrote all about this in 'Animal Farm'. A classic allegory which is very prescient. I don't think I will be able to add any more than good 'ol George.
Couple of other examples of peaceful economic movements: Grammen and Sewa. Of course these are not idealogically compliant enough for our Leftist/Markist/Maoist/Socialist comrades.
"the problem is a) he is a moron. What is his accomplishment ? Does he understand any process... Has he managed any business ? Nothing.... Then we shall See more acts like rural employemt gaurentee acts."
yes. what we need more are corporate 'managers' to execute neatly typed 5 to 10 point (it depends) plans for the 'development' (managing business) of the City. If that was the case, Chandrababu Naidu would still be in power and we would all be leapfrogging away into the next millenium. the reason that gaddar attracts those crowds is because he speaks/sings to the people a 'reality' that many of them are familiar with, however romantic that sounds. what is so moronic about that? "Development" is a highly problematic word and it needs to be employed carefully. It is not about building tall buidings and dams. Gaddar does put a "human face" on this movement. he does this by uncovering the highly dangerous, shaky rhetoric spewed by powerful, vested interests that get passed off in the name of "development."
And again, when do rural employment guarantees become bad for the people? think hard and deep about who needs them but who instead are benefitting from them. Perhaps, then we can stop arbitrarily calling people morons.
And this is how poverty is fought and jobs are generated for the poor - straight from the land of the "Reds" in India.
Tatas West Bengal plant to create 10,000 jobs
Here is the bottomline: either one can keep on lamenting about historical injustices and keep demanding justice or we can move on and do something that creates wealth in the society through innovation. Removing poverty is not a zero-sum game. You do not necessarily have to take from the rich to give to the poor. Wealth and economics do not follow "First Law of Thermodynamics".
And yes we need more business types to run the country. (and less droputs, FYI Indira Rajiv sonia all were droupouts)
It really is that simple.
you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see where these policies are going.
so call me an elitist/castiest or whatever else you find repugnant.
I dont want a goverment of morons who cant see economical outcomes of their decisions
And i do want to see people with accomplishment in their background.
Just like no one would put their IRA money in a company led by some one w/o any past accomplishment
why should they give the legislative powers to dumbfucks.
Again where is the talk about productivity here?
why should we mask unemployment and underproductive segments like this
The more india waits to do the hard thing which is tell the farmers that they are unproductive
and get out of there way...
The whole world did it any ways. I will use my adjectives as per my tastes and judgements. do you want a legislation against that.
"The more india waits to do the hard thing which is tell the farmers that they are unproductive and get out of there way..."
while i agree with most of the substance of your post, i think you're being harsh on the farmers, who've been committing suicide in droves recently. many of them are unproductive because of a variety and complexity of reasons beyond their immediate control. it doesn't help them when the most productive farmers in the world are heavily subsidised for their overproducitivity (U.S., Europe).
I thought about transforming the last response of Swati completely but decided otherwise because of the constraints of time. But here is the first part of it with necessary subsitutions for humor.
yes. what we need more are to execute neatly typed 5 to 10 for the 'development' (managing business of ) of the City. If that was the case, would
stillbe in power and we would all be leapfrogging away into the next millenium.I do understand what Swati means to convey. However, rhetoric does not help in these arguments.
Regards,
hammer-sickle, i did write that i "see clearly the difference between song and gun" i do not condone violence, in any form. when i made films in Hyderabad, I came in contact with people who were directly affected daily by the police and the government, every single day, right from getting a water pipe connection to getting their child into school. when you listen to gaddar's songs, they are mostly about this "reality." about migrations to the city, demolitions of homes in the name of "development," about false promises by the government, about basic everyday struggles. i will be the first to be suspect of those who claim to speak for others but listen to gaddar and it is clear that there is truth to what he says. also, when you think about it, why did the recent "rang de basanti" become such a huge hit in India? i had problems with the easy solution (killing) in the film but when one starts to look at why that sort of ideology is attractive one can argue that it is not just marxism or communism or maoism that propels that attraction. Please do not think i am essentializing these disparate ideologies, i am only trying to draw a very apparent connection between the two.
moornam,
"But, there is a path that will make your troubles go away"
"Open ended suggestions like this can easily be interpreted as: Go, get a gun, and do something."
it could also be interpreted as get up and get on your vehicle (bus, lorry, scooter, cycle etc), get to the government and make enough noise
Ok. I messed up again. Here is the revised version.
yes. what we need more are poets, revolutionaries, and union leaders to execute neatly typed 5 to 10 stanza poems/paragraph revolutionary literature for the 'development' (managing business of poverty) of the City. If that was the case, Gaddar would
stillbe in power and we would all be leapfrogging away into the next millenium.I agree with you GGK. Yes, you are a bit harsh in castigating the farmers for their plight.
Regards,
you get noise and poverty.
you get voilence gun shot noise and still poverty.
ggk,
i am not against taking tough decisions and i do know that indian agriculture is also subsidized (and should have mentioned that). i'm not saying the agricultural sector shouldn't be reformed (given that india is still a largely agrarian society) and have read of some small-scale innovative programs that have helped farmers whilst not being a drain on the economy. i'm sure you know more about it than i do. but i'll still just have to disagree with you and say that i am sympathetic to those farmers who are driven to drinking insecticide because they have lost all hope (not debating whether it's right or wrong or a cop-out or wrong to leave their families behind). while being strong in the face of seemingly insurmountable adversity is admirable and the desired outcome, not everyone has that strength nor should they be automatically scorned for not having it. just my opinion.
When ever the topic of agricultural reform comes up, I quote Mukesh Ambani. He said in a speech a year back, that, agriculture is the least efficient business in India and a there's a big opportunity for corporations to get in and remove inefficiencies and increase productivity. His Reliance (Approx $12 billion rev.) has started this with Mangoes.
Now, Ambani is a bonafide money maker. So when Ambani speaks I listen. The government should too. (But electoral politics is going to make it harder for any real policy change in agriculture, Sad but true!)
The whole agricultural business from growing, harvesting, transport, processing, storage, distribution, etc. needs reform in India.
India always seems to get the cart ahead of the horse (and this goes back to independence) where investment in infrastructure of all sectors was always designed to meet the needs of yesterday instead of the present and future.
Ouch, you got me there. Refer to Malcolm X, please (not that I deserve to stand in the same sentence as him, but he had some choice words about accusations of demagoguery).
The telecom revolution?!?!?!?! Shrameek Vidyapeeth, Sikshana, and Lijjat all appear to be community organizations, advocating for change or self-sufficiency. None of these are a revolution in themselves. A revolution (in the sense I'm referring to) involves radically changing or overthrowing the state or ruling body in question. I never said that non-violent organizations, strategies, and tactics are not a critical part of accomplishing this overthrow of social machinery, but it depends on what oppression you are dealing with. And the full extent of a revolution is NEVER 100% nonviolent. Many confused desis seem to have made a fetish of nonviolence without even understanding its historical context.
The Naxalite movement has grown in response to landlords, brutal police who violently suppress all other means of agitation, and abusive military and paramilitary groups that enforce oppressive institutions. People do not naturally just pick up arms and engage in this kind of insurrection. They get pushed to this point when their initial demands are not met, or met with violent and brutal repression.
You need to go back and understand what a "revolution" actually is before you go about calling everything by this name.
Indeed, the Naxalite movement has non-violent components as well. Of course, demagogues such as yourself would never see this, and instead reactionarily rail against violent acts without really thinking.
This also goes for the idiot who effectively equated Che Guevara with Hitler.
Now, here are some examples of mass-based, social revolutions that actually did overthrow or attempt to overthrow the machinery, or significant pieces thereof, of the state. I'll try to give you some that you can actually digest:
France (1789-1799)
Haiti (1791-1803)
the Sepoy "Mutiny"/Rebellion (1857)
Zapatista movement (1994-?)
Simon Bolivar's prolific struggle
you can find millions more examples of the nature of a real revolution.
Were these revolutionary movements solely comprised of armed insurrection? Of course not. But armed insurrection is/was a key element of them.
Violence and the threat thereof was also a key part of South Asia's liberation from British rule, South Africa's struggle against apartheid, and even the few successes of the Civil Rights / Black Liberation movement in the US.
Without the naxal movement Bengal wouldn't have had its land redistribution. That did contribute significantly to reduce rural poverty. And Bengal is the only state in North India (with the exception of J&K) to have any significant land redistribution. So, occacional violence does some good, especially in an imperfect democracy. THe Maoist movement wouldn't have happened and wouldn't have found much support if India had a successful land redistribution efort in the 50's (the population would have been lower too, with less rural poverty). Those of you who admire S. Korea or Japan or Taiwan or even China perhaphs know that their industrialization was preceeded by a massive land redistribution effort (and compulsory primary education). Funnily, this was executed under US tutelage (damn commie US army and State dept.) in the 50s.
As far as India goes, it is a case of missed opportunites returning to haunt us. It's too late for land redistribution and India isn't industrializing fast enough (real light manufacturing, not software) too make a diffenrece to a lot of the rural poor. The Maoist movements and its many avatars will be here for long if the democratic setup cannot live up to the people's aspirations. Anti-incumbency can only take you this far...
"The Maoists' recent electoral victories in certain regions of West Bengal is also part of it: the rural poor are very, very unhappy with both the Congress Party and the BJP"
Amardeep perhaps I am interpreting this incorrectly but the "maoists" did not have any electoral victories in WB.It was the CPI-(M), Communist Party of India (Marxist), led Left Front that swept the polls in WB. If i recall correctly the Naxalites/Maoists is a revolutionary movement that aims to bring about sweeping changes through the barrel of the gun and not through the ballot box.
On a brighter note, Tata Motors just announed that they will manufacture their Rs 100,000 car in West Bengal. This investement is going to create 10,000 direct & indirect jobs so hopefully this will be able to make a dent in the social problems in the red corridor.
Ranjit,
I know what a "revolution" is. My use of the word "revolution" along with those links signified something. I guess, you completely missed the point.
Anyways, you are free to believe that revolution - a total change in the system, will solve India's problem. In my opinion, this will start of endless rounds of vicious killings that will never stop. Eventually, India will end up as one of the African nations.
I do not believe we need a revolution. Things are not that bad in India that we need to spill blood. There are enough outlets for the steam to flow out. Although the democracy in India needs to mature more, yet I must admit that it has come a long way in solving the problems of the people. In spite of all the cautionary tales against economic liberalization and the increase in the gini index, I think India has done remarkably well to give hope to its poor in recent times as compared to twenty years ago.
I refuse to believe in any philosophy that tells me to think for the common good of the society rather than what it means for me and my sphere of influence i.e. my family, my friends, and my life etc.
Pink Bong, let us not get into what the communists did for Bengal and how Bengal is next beacon of hope for India. This will hijack this thread unnecessarily. As far as development in Bengal is concerned, I can only laugh at your naivete.
Regards,
Ranjit,
I would advise you to read 'Animal Farm'. You will realize what the end result of 'your' revolution will be. "Sticking it to the Man" sounds good in theory, but ultimately always will end with another "Man" with different tendencies of exploitation
Pinkbong
An alternate example would be Tamil Nadu. Never had a classical leftist govt, though lot of populists who were smart enough to not kill the golden goose. Tamil Nadu's statistics on the social index compares very well with Kerala, but without the baggage. Also, TN is more industrialized than WB, though TN never had the scale of central govt investment. Most of the villages in TN are electrified, the rural roads are atleast for the most part, motorable and the bus service is excellent, so people in the rural side can do their business. And Tamil Nadu is not a resource rich or water surplus state like WB or Kerala.
To paraphrase Wodehouse, then our washing machines would have about as many revolutions per second as the country.
Ranjit, not ONCE have you justified how the revolution applies to the present case. The freedom struggles you mention were not social movements - they were nationalistic movements by far. Also, you think things will become perfect after a bloody revolution? It seems like such a quick fix to have one big glorious storming of the Bastille -- the question ofcourse is, do you have a clear idea of what your Bastille is? Moreover, I am sure you are familiar with the term Reign of Terror that followed the French Revolution -- and the Restoration that pretty much invalidated the Revolution in itself. Class battles ultimately leave people dissatisfied since in the long term the notion of class is mutable -- once the power and economic equations shift, the erstwhile opressed become the opressors as they clamour to extract revenge with the misguided notion of erasing some sort of historical debt.
Yeah, lets have a revolution and put a dork like Mugabe to be our Fearless Leader and Chief Supremo. Maybe then we can all sing songs, march in unison and feel all warm and fuzzy.
On the whole business of agriculture in India, this is what know from personal anecdotes and relatives who still farm. Of course, some people may not give credence to personal anecdotes, but it is better than sitting in an American university and talking about how Maoist revolution is needed for the agri reforms:
1. My grandfateher has a small 4 acre farm where he grows various vegetables and some basic cerals. Unfortunately for most of the time he can't turn a profit and my uncle who is a teacher has to subsidize him. The reason, is the farm is too small and is in a dry area depending on well water. No irrigation canals nearby as there is no significant body of water close. So my grandfather is basically dependent on a good rain. There are thousands of farms like his, which which will never cut it, unless the farms are big enough. So it is a catch 22 - make the farms big and have more people out of agri sector or have small farms and eke out a hand to mouth existence. These farms will never have a surplus to make improvements or generate taxes to suppot infrasturcure, agri research, schools and healt clinics to support the farmers families. So you probably need the big bad industrialists and bourgeouise middle class to generate substantial surplus revenue and taxes to support these farmers.
2. Lot of farmers commit suicide because they get into too much debt. One of the reasons is not easy access to cheap finance. The other thing is they get bad or unsuitable agri inputs (seeds, fertilizers, pesticides etc). One of the reasons is that the state agricultural officers do a shoddy job of certifying seeds because of corruption and a lot of small scale and/or fly by night operators supplying bad seeds and pesticides. Sometimes a version of Monsanto (maybe without the GM seeds) may not be bad at all, because you can have throat to choke or sue if the seeds and/or pesticides are not upto par. The other reason that the farmers commit suicide is (which a lot of people don't want to discuss) is they spend the money that they get from a good harvest to spending money on functions like marriage etc or gambling, without saving for a rainy day.
3. Farmers misuse subsidies. Free electicity is used not just for farming, but also other uses. They try to browbeat the govt into writing off loans and not pay for services, and the govt keeps on getting into a deeper hole where they can't provide for other social services like primary education or health, because there is no constituency for it.
4. Farm workers and manual laborers (this is in a most prosperous part of Tamil Nadu, so it may not apply to other parts) are not very reliable. They will show up to work for a couple of weeks and then disappear for a week or more till they run out of money. This may be difficult to believe for most people, but these guys can make almost close to Rs 75-100/day. My uncle's theory is they don't have a concept of saving for the long term and enjoying the fruits of their labor. Also he says, their thought is even if they work regularly, they may be able to save enough to buy a house only after number of years and they want to enjoy life now. Unfortunatlely, saving for tomorrow is a very capitalist concept, whereas in a maoist world there is no need to save (and against the ideology), as the state provides everything. There is no way to reconcile this. And this is why movements like Grameen, Lajjat, Amul etc are anaethma to the Maoists. There is a Tamil saying 'Siru Thuli, Peruvellam' which translates to 'Small Drops make a big flood' and that is what Grameen is about.
Anyway, I can give others but anyway this is a start.
If only George Washington had stuck to farming...
If only Simon Bolivar had stuck to...
If only Mahamtma Gandhi had stuck to...
If only Lech Walesa had stuck to...
If only Nelson Mandela had stuck to...
...and so on...
Nice false dichotomy.
Umrao Jan,
Amardeep perhaps I am interpreting this incorrectly but the "maoists" did not have any electoral victories in WB.It was the CPI-(M), Communist Party of India (Marxist), led Left Front that swept the polls in WB.
Yes I must have misread some earlier news article about this. They have been in the news a lot over the past two weeks. The Maoists were killing members of the CPI-(M), to try and thwart the election, but weren't running for office.
Here is a way of alleviating poverty. Gun-less.
Marrying existing ideas in an innovative way. Reduce Cost. Make a profit.
Of course, to the Maoists anyone making a profit is a snake.
http://blog.unitus.com/?cat=5
You only have to look carefully in the picture above to see that he is holding a meeting in a CITY. You see, the MAIN PROBLEM for violent communists in India has alway been that their "revolutions" that are so successfully portrayed in the media in cities have little or no support in villages.
- the seemingly bottomless (or at least very deep) well of sympathy for the Maoists in Indias impoverished rural areas.
Try telling that to over 200 victims of Maoist violence in the villages.
Personally, I find this highly insensitive to the villagers that are being butchered by Maoists. The least you can do is read the news before you claim that Maoists are "popular".
I am new to this so, trying again
article on for-profit idea
BranchDravidian,
GeorgeWashington, Gandhi etc. quit their day jobs because they wanted to fight for
1. freedom for everyone, starting with
2. freedom for themselves.
Hence, their actions were selfish to begin with, but not contradictory to anyone. Which is why they are reverred today.
Hitler/Maoists etc fought/fight for:
1. Less freedom for others combined with
2. More freedom for themselves (to loot, tax, kill etc)
Which is why they will never be reverred.
M. Nam
Dear All,
I am a late entrant to this debate and in fact, this is my first comment on SM.
After reading the blog and most of the comments, I am surprised that not a single person from Andhra Pradesh has responded with more info abt Gaddar or some of the real perceptions about this 'balladeer'.
I have seen Gaddar perform on stage and he sure is a powerful communicator.And he has also sung a few melodious folk songs for some Telugu movies with revolutionary themes.
However, I am afraid the good news stops here.
Gaddar and his Jana Natya Mandali must have raised crores through donations from impressionable students, idealists, villagers etc. The money goes to fund the Naxal movement, which as we all know, has resulted in the death of thousands of innocent people and the police personnel. No amount of ideological hogwash justifies their philosophy of 'revolution through the bullet'.
It is true that Gaddar has sacrificed an enginnering seat that he got through reservation. And a bank job he obtained by simply applying for it.
Gaddar and others like him have crafted a career for themselves as the creative wing of the naxal movement. A friend once told me (a few years ago) that Gaddar owns Reliance shares worth several lakhs, and also properties in Hyderabad and Bangalore. Not just Gaddar, but most of the Naxal top leadership have amassed fortunes over the years. The modus operandi includes, collecting protection money from businesses, landlords, politicians and so on. During the 2004 assembly elections in AP, the Congress struck a deal with the Naxals to ensure that TDP can't even conduct campaigns in Telangana areas.
Gaddar has gone underground a few times in his career when JNM and PWG both were banned by the Govt of AP. But I think he survived (not just my suspicion, but the feeling of many observers of AP political scene)by striking deals with the Govt and the Police, acting as a conduit between businesses and the Naxals, and of course, collecting money for the PWG.
And now, Gaddar has surfaced in the US of A. I bet this would have been his life time ambition to visit a country he has derided for over three decades now, as the capitalist demon! I really wonder how he can justify his visit to US; does he want to start a donation scheme in US to fund arms purchase for the PWG? Who has paid for his trip? Many gullible rural youth in Telangana are living in a state of constant fear - if they don't join the mainstream, the Police will encounter them; if they renounce Naxalism, the PWG will term them as 'informers' and execute them. And meanwhile, their spokesman Gaddar is performing on NPR.Brilliant !
Kumar Narasimha,
Thanks for your comment. One clarification: I don't think Gaddar is in the U.S. Rather, he's been interviewed by U.S. reporters in Andhra somewhere. (Perhaps from the Voice of America)
I don't think the U.S. would grant someone with his history a visa -- nor is it likely that the Indian government would let him leave!
Gaddar was not the only one inspired by anti-Imperialist revolutionary movoment. The source of all the south asian ultra-left (SAUL) movements in US have also been inspired and share a common goal with "Gaddar". Before starting a publication called "Ghadar", the SAUL debated on "Red brownies" !!!, "counterFOIL" etc after deciding on "Ghadar".
Thanks for the clarification, Amardeep.
I went back and read some of the comments that I missed earlier.
You say: "The size of that crowd out in the open tells you something about what the Indian government is dealing with. The Maoists' recent electoral victories in certain regions of West Bengal is also part of it: the rural poor are very, very unhappy with both the Congress Party and the BJP.
Again, I'm not defending him, or his ideology. I'm just saying we need to take seriously an uprising that is verging on going nationwide, with millions of followers and the potential to totally destabilize Indian democracy. Even if it's only a matter of "understanding one's enemy."
Size of the crowd: It is common to transport people in trucks and lorries to such meetings. Entire villages are mobilised this way. Where there is a train service, the trains are packed with the villagers and no one dares to ask them for tickets. For them, its just a day out to the city/town- the transport is free and in most cases, food packets are arranged as well. Also, Gaddar's meetings, unlike the meetings of professional politicians, are hugely entertaining with lots of folk performances. If the size of the crowd was a true indicator of following, these groups would have gladly joined the mainstream and claimed political power.
Maoist victories in some parts of WB: In WB, people have no alternative to the CPI (M), which in any case is as mainstream as Cong or BJP. The ideology is an eye wash. So, in some places, certain rural factions that have been neglected by CPM rule have found the Maoists as the alternative.There is hardly any Cong/BJP presence in those areas for the people to be unhappy about them.
Do we need to take Maoists/Naxals seriously? Yes..we need to. But I don't think we need to characterise it as an uprising. Thats too strong a word :-) Indian democracy is not in any danger from these players.
We need a two-pronged approach: Political will to stamp out the violent elements and Focused rural development and employment creation in these areas. The problem is with the political will and the left-leaning intelligentsia.
>>"
"like this wasnt
>>"