June 28, 2006
SuperModiFilm
Since Abhi my colleagues at Sepia Mutiny have apparently stopped doing their earlier hourly updates on what Kal Penn is up to, I feel it is incumbent upon me to remind readers that second-gen actor Kal Penn plays one of Lex Luthor’s henchmen in the new film Superman Returns (aka, the “American version of Krrish”). Reviews have been pretty positive, though there are still some signs that the film may be a load of “Kraptonite” (or, in a nod to Manish, Krraptonite!), but how can that stop me from loyally supporting the ABCDeNiro?
And no, he doesn’t play a vaguely middle-eastern terrorist type. Nor does he speak in a bad Indian accent. In fact, in the final cut of the film, I gather, Kal Penn doesn’t have any speaking lines at all. Also, his character is named “Stanford.” Ah well: if they don’t have you playing the demonic terrorist, they’ll have you whipped as the “model minority.” Sigh.
At least he’s on the right side. From the trailers, this version of Superman seems like one of those movies with a hero so annoyingly earnest you end up rooting for the bad guys to win. Of course, with bad guys as charismatic as Kevin Spacey (or indeed, Kal Penn), that comes pretty easily. Can you think of other examples in this genre? Bad guys so diabolical and cool that you’re practically depressed when they’re finally vanquished at the end?
amardeep on June 28, 2006 11:11 AM in Arts and Entertainment, Film, Humor · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
¤ Ultrabrown said: Rehash browns
Hey no fair. I only have like two Kal Penn posts if you check the archives. I think your are confusing Kal Penn with Bobby Jindal who I blog about a lot more often. :)
Can you think of other examples in this genre? Bad guys so diabolical and cool that youre practically depressed when theyre finally vanquished at the end?
Any movie with Amrish Puri as the bad guy. His roles in Mr. India, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and many others are simply classic.
It's not so much that he's a model minority, but he was 'colour-blind cast'. Of course that's a misnomer, but he was cast as the character who would've been assumed to have been white in the original script. Like Morgan Freeman as Red - perhaps they thought Kal just seemed right. I dunno Amardeep, I don't think Brandon Routh's Superman is THAT earnest, he's been bumming around away from Metropolis for five years and seems to have stopped doing his job - when the fillum starts, that is. I'm looking forward to it about as much as SoaP.
I've just been checking out superdickery.com, talking of Superman, and it's fantastic. It's a little NSFW, but only because it says 'Superman is a Dick' on various pages; the pics are all kosher. If you haven't heard of the Superman is a Dick phenomenon, now is the time to learn.
Bad guys so diabolical and cool that youre practically depressed when theyre finally vanquished at the end?
That includes just about any Christopher Walken movie...
superdickery.com is such a stupid site. just goes to show you can put any crap you want on the internet
Cool baddies? Where do I start? I can't think of that many cool goodies, bar BLADE and BATMAN.
Hannibal Lecter, Krang, Skeletor, The Joker, Venom, Predator, Terminator, all the Lex Luthors except the New Adventures John Shea or something, Doctor Evil, the Borg (ehhrrmm, not sure about them), Silver Surfer, Bloefeld...there are so, so many and I'm too hungry to think carefully.
MEGATRON.
"Bad guys so diabolical and cool that youre practically depressed when theyre finally vanquished at the end?"
darth vader. although the poor prequels ruined his coolness. also any movie in which marlon brando or any other favorite actor in a "bad guy" role is vanquished because they tend to outshine everyone else.
GujuDude -- Yes, Amrish Puri is perfect. (He also did a solid "psycho dad," as I recall -- ala DDLJ)
Abhi, my apologies -- Manish is/was more of a Kal Penn stalker! (Also, Vinod and Sajit seem to have posted a fair bit on him.)
I can't think of that many cool goodies, bar BLADE and BATMAN.
Don't forget The Crow. Coolest of the cool goodies.
Darth Vader would probably take the cake from for most people WGiiA. And you're right, Hayden F*cking Christensen ruined it, not as much as Luca$$ who superimposed his dorky face on every available copy of Jedi, arrgh!
Keep the suggestions coming people, I'm enjoying it.
Tim Curry's performance as "Darkness" in "Legend" was probably the best thing about the movie. Cool makeup effects in the age before CGI.
Castor Troy in John Woo's Face/Off.
De Niro in "Heat."
What the heck, Pacino, too, in "Heat."
And how can one forget Khan Noonien Singh...
goldfinger (the best bond villain in my opinion). also, ralph fiennes in schindler's list (totally robbed of an oscar for that performance). trying to think of some female baddies.
Bong Breaker,
I was going to suggest Vader but several people here seem to have beaten me to it. He is the archetypal coolest baddie of all, though.
I also think the current Lex Luthor in Smallville is pretty suave and the actor playing the role is doing a very good job indeed.
Others ? Well, Klingons in the last few Star Trek spin-offs have been pretty cool, although obviously the line between good guys/bad guys has been blurred for them in recent years. I liked Kurn and Martok the most; both very charismatic.
Megatron ? Yep, good childhood memories. Also Galvatron. And yes I know they're the same guy.
Who else ? I'll have to think about it, but examples off the top of my head would be Amitabh Bachchan in Deewar (and Don), Danny Denzongpa in Agneepath, Akshay Khanna in the second half of Humraaz (especially the last 20 minutes or so). More recently, I thought Saif Ali Khan in Ek Hasina Thi was diabolically good too. Yes, I'm not kidding. Stop smirking. I haven't seen Bluffmaster yet but Nana Patekar seems charismatic enough in the various clips I've seen.
The new Dr (Gaius) Baltar in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica is absolutely superb.
Let's not forget Michael Douglas's portrayal of Gordon Gekko in Wall Street.
And, of course, Gabbar Singh in Sholay.
sorry, forgot to add Christopher Lee as scaramanga in man with the golden gun. another super cool bond villain.
Gary Oldman's over the top psycho cop in "Leon"
trying to think of some female baddies.
Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman in Batman 2.
Hell, that reminds me -- Jack Nicholson as The Joker in the first Batman movie. What a performance. Okay, he was basically playing himself, but still stole the show.
Ed Harris as "Christo" in The Truman Show.
Ed Harris as "Major Koenig" in Enemy at the Gates.
Cillian Murphy was pretty good in Batman Begins and Red Eye.
M. Nam
James Earl Jones as Thulsa Doom in "Conan The Barbarian"
And Rutger Hauer as Roy Batty in "Blade Runner"
Nino Brown (played by Wesley Snipes) in New Jack City.
Hmmm. This has got me thinking.
Milton's Satan is the hero of Paradise Lost. The bad guy gets all the best lines, God ends up looking like an uptight goody-two-billion shoes.
The real challenge might be to find a comprehensively drawn bad guy (no stick figures, that would be too easy) that we really, really fear or dislike.
Vikram,
And how can one forget Khan Noonien Singh...
You read my mind!
Also, Tommy Lee Jones in Under Siege.
Another Ed Harris one: as General Hummel in The Rock.
Larry Hagman's portrayal of JR Ewing on Dallas.
Ben Kingsley in Sexy Beast. My God, what a completely ranting psychopath. Now that guy really was scary.
"And, of course, Gabbar Singh in Sholay."
how could i forget that? great choice.
another candidate is the shark from Jaws (named as a top villain by the afi). that thing was scary for its time and even the ride at universal studios, even though you know it's a fake shark, has the potential to give you a jolt the first time it appears. when it gets blown up in the movie you feel relieved but you also feel a weird sense of loss.
Probably one of the best cinematic depictions of a cool bad guy is Edward Fox in "Day Of The Jackal".
Ben Kingsley as Gandhi.
Damn, I nearly forgot. Gene Hackman playing the Sheriff in The Quick and The Dead.
Nasty guy, but insanely charismatic. I've seen the movie several times purely for his performance. He was brilliant.
"Milton's Satan is the hero of Paradise Lost. The bad guy gets all the best lines, God ends up looking like an uptight goody-two-billion shoes."
wow that brings back memories. i remember reading it in high school and thinking what a cool, sexy, intriguing, attractive-in-a-sort-of-forbidden way character satan was.
"The real challenge might be to find a comprehensively drawn bad guy (no stick figures, that would be too easy) that we really, really fear or dislike."
exactly. i think if a character is comprehensively drawn or portrayed, it's very hard to completely fear or dislike them because then we realize that they have good facets as well and human facets, like everyone else, and a part of us, maybe even against our will, is drawn to that.
Steve McQueen as Thomas Crown in the 1968 original "The Thomas Crown Affair"
How about King Kong? I cried for him. And Frankenstein. Although I guess he's not really a baddie, just has the reputation.
The various Godfathers, specially Al Pacino.
king kong wasn't a baddie, the humans were.
The various Godfathers, specially Al Pacino.
Hmmm. I think they were more like "anti-heroes", rather than outright villains (I guess the same applies to my previous suggestion of Amitabh in Deewar & Don, along with Gordon Gekko). Otherwise we may as well start including Amitabh as Vijay Dinananth Chauhan in Agneepath, both Bachchans in Sarkar, and so on (plus some of Shahrukh Khan's earlier films).
Regarding female villains, Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct is the only notable performance I can think of right now. Unless you want to include Priyanka Chopra in Aitraaz.
In fact, going down the Bollywood route, I guess you could also include Bipasha Basu in Jism. Not sure if it ranks up there with the "coolest baddies of all time", though.
Dr. Strangelove -- the ne plus ultra among mad scientists. EVERYWHERE.
keyser soze...of course.
Although I didn't actually *like* her, Priyanka Chopra had that one line in Aitraaz, where she goes "Yes Raj!! Show me you're an animal!" That one was snort worthy and made it worth watching that crappiest of movies.
Oh, and I also like the woman who played Hamlet's mother in Kenneth Branagh's version, I never paid attention to Gertrude until I saw her.
And Severus Snape, yeah, I'd root for him versus waaaay to earnest Harry Potter but only in the movies.
some food for thought on female baddies:
"In the American Film Institute's recent poll of Hollywood's 50 greatest heroes and 50 greatest villains, one thing is particularly striking. Of the top 10 heroes, only two are women. However, the top 10 villains include six females.
Men outnumber women on both lists. Nonetheless, women still look rather shady. They take up 15 positions among the top 50 villains, and only eight among the heroes, including one (Lassie) who was played by a succession of boys. For those who haven't done maths recently, this suggests that the bad girls outnumber the good ones nearly two to one."
trying to think of some female baddies.
Linda Fiorentino in The Last Seduction
i agree with bong breaker's (first comment) I think the fact that kal penn is cast at all in a role that isn't specifically indian is pretty awesome actually.
Everybody in Resevoir Dogs
Humbert Humbert as played by James Mason in Kubrick's Lolita. Bad bad bad boy.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I noticed that an earlier comment mentioned Megatron and Galvatron. For the rest of you who are geeks and proud of it, you should check out the test footage. See this and this. Yes, I know it's not desi related, but I'm sure someone out there is interested.
I have to say, watching the film with Kal in it, while its fantastic that he's not playing a turrist or even a tourist for that matter, I still expect him to talk about smoking a joint or a bong or a shlong or some other word that rhymes with 'ong.'
But to his credit, he's balanced Uncle Tom'ing and keeping it real, in an industry where nothing is real.
But to his credit, he's balanced Uncle Tom'ing
pathetic.
Linda Fiorentino in The Last Seduction
I second that. An amazing performance. 40s and 50s film noirs have some great female baddies. Two that immediately come to mind - Jane Greer in Out of the Past and Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity .
What happened to the Harold and Kumar sequel?
More cool female villains: "Number Six" in the new Battlestar Galactica. She's hot. She's tall. She's blonde. She's very leggy. And she's a very bad girl indeed. What more do you want ?
(Also quite a complex, multifaceted, "shades of grey" character, like her "aashique" Baltar who I mentioned earlier.)
Rebecca Rommjin-Stamos was good in a film called (wait for it) Femme Fatale a couple of years ago. Stylish movie, probably quite dodgy in some aspects. Some completely gratuitous girl-on-girl action too, for those of you who enjoy watching that kind of thing. Yes you, I'm talking to you. Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. And stop crossing your legs at the image, it ain't hiding nothing and you ain't fooling nobody.
For the slightly older desis on SM:
Female villain: Diana in V.
Very cool male villain: There used to be a Dubai-based Indian series on the Zee network called Dastaan during the mid/late 90s. The main hero was Parmeet Sethi, but the villain was played by Ashish Vidhyarthi and was called Lankesh. Some of you may remember him -- very dark, goatee, slicked-back hair, had a limp and used a cane, always immaculately dressed. I thought he was brilliant, very charismatic* indeed and to some extent the highlight of the show.
*Apologies for using this word so frequently on this thread but it's the most appropriate term for these people ;)
Nonetheless, women still look rather shady.you kill me man.. that's really funny.. or maybe just the summertime jooces flowing free.
Now, do we have to support bad actors like [Kal Penn - i am ashamed of my name], because they are brown?
"Nonetheless, women still look rather shady."
"you kill me man.. that's really funny.. or maybe just the summertime jooces flowing free."
just to clarify, i didn't say that. i was quoting from an article about the afi's list of heroes and villains. wish i could take credit for it:)
Sharon who? Here's my list of ladies...
Kathy Bates as Annie in Misery
Tina Turner as Aunt Entity in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
O-Ren Ishii from Kill Bill was pretty badass and ruthless
Reagen from The Exorcist!!!
The White Witch from Chronicles of Narnia
Alien Queen from Aliens (she counts!)
Demi Moore in Disclosure
Animated:
Evil Lyn from He Man and the Masters of the Universe
The Queen from Snow White
Wicked Witch of the West
Cruella Deville
Ursulla in Little Mermaid
Some scary lads in Lynch flicks:
Willem Defoe as Bobby Peru in Wild at Heart - with his little teeth and gummy sneer *shudder*
Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet
Bob/Leeland in Twin Peaks
Robert Blake as the Mystery Man in Lost Highway - I think he was bad, I still haven't made complete sense of the flick. But he sure was scary as hell.
This game kicks ass.
Okay, a few more suggestions:
Badass male villains: Magua, Barron Vladimir Harkonnen
Badass Female Villian: Natasha Henstridge in Species
Here's my list of favourite baddies (which intersects fairly non-trivially with my list of favourite movie characters):
McKellen (Sir Leigh Teabing) in The Da Vinci Code (the only reason I sat through the movie!)
Schwarzenegger (The Terminator) in T1
Pitt (Tyler Durden) in Fight Club
Carradine and Madsen (Bill and Budd) in Kill Bill 2
Travolta, Willis, Jackson, .... (Vince, Jules, Butch, ....) in Pulp Fiction
Stone (Catherine Trummel) in Basic Instinct
Hoffman (I forgot the name) in MI3
McDowell (Alex) in A Clockwork Orange
Sellers (all of them) in Dr Strangelove
Abraham (Kabir) in Dhoom!
Bajpai (Bhikhu Mhatre) in Satya
Kharbanda (Shaakaal) in Shaan
Amjad Khan (Gabbar) in Sholay
O-Ren Ishii from Kill Bill was pretty badass and ruthless
Was she the Half-French Half-Japanese chick? Or was that the sidekick of O-Ren? I keep googling for Half-French Half-Japanese singles. Somehow nothing useful turns up.
glenn close in fatal attraction, bette davis in of human bondage (not purely villainous but really destestable), the little foxes, whatever happened to baby jane, angela lansbury in manchurian candidate.
Male Villains: Hans from Die Hard (second best movie villain ever next to Darth), and for that matter his brother from Die Hard 3. Agent Smith from the Matrix, and Prince Humperdink, Vizzini, and Count Rugen from Princess Bride. Actually, any character from the later movie would work in any "best of" game. DeNiro as Capone in the Untouchables
Females: Nurse Rachet from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest...Can't think of any others that haven't already been mentioned. Would Ziyi Zhang in Crouching Tiger be considered a villain? Most of the movie, she was, but she did see the light at the end.
"pathetic"
Are you my shadow?
Barron Vladimir Harkonnen
Nurd.
Dune rules. I was lucky enough to find the first six books and three add ons (one each on main houses) on ebay for 30 bucks. It was a total steal.
Gotta put in the Mel Gibson movie villans. The Mad Max dude, Edward Longshanks, and the crazy English Col. from The Patriot. Mike Madsen in Resevior Dogs cutting the dude's ear off was pretty crazy too. Horror movie villian like Pinhead, Jason, and Freddy are classics.
The woman in "The Hand that Rocks the Cradle" was pretty sinister as a villan.
Gotta give props to the warden and head of the prison guards from The Shawshank Redemption.
Joaquin Phoenix in Gladitor played his role as Commodus to perfection while Jack Nicholson was kick ass in The Shining. I'll second almost any Bond villain, those guys were the shit.
Michael Jackson - "Ghosts"
Tonya Harding - "Breakaway"
.
.
O-Ren Ishii was played by Lucy Liu and she was formerly one of Bill's assasins before she took over the japanese mafia group. The half-french, half-japanese lady was her lawyer/side kick. All the female villians - Vivica Fox, Daryl Hanna etc in that movie were pretty bad-ass!
No love for Mugambo?
Neha -
My day was going rather well until you dropped that Robert Blake bomb on my ass, damn near scaring the t*ts off of me.
...who was PROBABLY separated at birth from THIS little pant-pissing freak: Lady Elaine Fairchild from Mr. Roger's Land of Make Believe.
thanks killbill.
...who was PROBABLY separated at birth from THIS little pant-pissing freak: Lady Elaine Fairchild from Mr. Roger's Land of Make Believe.AAARRRRGGGHHHH! Fugging puppets!
And another dude in the running for scariest male: PENNYWISE
Sorry DDiG, I'm late, thanks Kill Bill!
dave chappelle as rick james
More from me:
Zelda. I can't remember the name of the show (80s puppets), but that was one scary alien Martian invader. Totally demented.
Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. The one with Kevin Costner in the lead role. Mr Rickman almost completely stole the show.
Manoj Bajpai in Road. If you've seen this film (also starring Vivek Oberoi and Antara Mali), you'll know what I mean.
Another two for the Trekkies: Hoshi aka Empress Sato and Kira, both from the "Mirror Universe" episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise and DS9 respectively. Now those were two seriously bad girls and very foxy indeed in their villanous roles. Kira was even outrageously bisexual, the saucy minx. Both of them could have benefitted from a healthy spanking session with a suitably strict instructor, namely me.
Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. The one with Kevin Costner in the lead role. Mr Rickman almost completely stole the show
Jai, you are totally biting off my call as Alan Rickman from Die Hard...and don't even try to tell me that he was better in Robin Hood.
Joaquin Phoenix in Gladitor played his role as Commodus to perfection
Vurd.
Meryl Streep as Hillary Clinton in The Manchurian Candidate was creepy in the extreme. Bad bad woman, and not in a good way.
Evil Abhi in The Sepia Mutiny. Baad.
Spoor Lam in the same. Baaaad.
amardeep -
actually, we should all be happy to know exactly ONE line from kal made it into the final cut of the movie. at least the director did a good job of showing a healthy number of desis in the hospital scene.
one step at a time.
Alan Rickman in ANYthing. Ditto on the previous comment regarding him as Severus Snape. Much as I love Harry Potter, I'd love to see Snape get his day... though after the last book I'm incredibly excited to hear what's to come for Snape.
NOOOOOOOOOOO, please please don't get me started on Harry Potter speculation!!!!
How about Miko in Sin City (she of the deadly Samurai sword)?
And nobody beats Mogambo :)
Alan Rickman in ANYthing
Yeah, he's cool as Snape, he aight in Robin Hood. But again, I just can't compare any of those roles w/ Hans in Die Hard. Sorry to snipe about this, but Snape (and I haven't read any of the books) as far as I can tell, isn't even a villain. Does he even count?
When I first glanced at the headline I thought this was going to be about the real-life Lex Luthor, Narendra Modi...
Anyways... no reference to Kill Bill can be complete without Go Go Yubari, the schoolgirl from Hell.
"How about now, big boy? Do you still wish to penetrate me?... Or is it I who has penetrated you?"
*shudder*
It's a shame that documentaries have been left out thus far:
- George W. Bush in Fahrenheit 9-11 was deliciously evil.
- The spoiled white girl in Spellbound gave you sympathy for the others.
- McDonald's in SuperSize Me is outright deadly.
Are you my shadow?
When it comes to calling people out for using that wack, piece-of-shit phrase, I'm your Huckleberry. Best of all, this poet warrior has my six.
Are you my shadow? When it comes to calling people out for using that wack, piece-of-shit phrase, I'm your Huckleberry. Best of all, this poet warrior has my six.
Comment #1: ANNA is going to take over the world one day, so I think I'm going to side with ANNA on this point just because I don't want to be on her bad side when said event happens. Plus, I think she's right.
Comment #2: BrooklynBrown, there are plenty of people who would disagree with you about your choice of docu-villains. Although, I must admit I am not one of them.
Comment #3: I've decided that keeping track of blog comments is far too addictive and I should definitely STOP.
Comment #2: BrooklynBrown, there are plenty of people who would disagree with you about your choice of docu-villains. Although, I must admit I am not one of them.
True that. My point was actually to distinguish between the construction of a villain rather than the actual villain. Perhaps a Decepticon in another light may be a more honorale hero than any Autobot? Who knows? But I suspect that the plethora of villains named above have about as much to do with camera angles, editing, and facial movements than they have with actual dastardly deeds.
On a different note, Sriram, I liked your "Todos Locos" tune. Cool music, bro!
I guess Brad Pitt in Fight Club and Jack Nicholson from Batman come to mind immediately
On a different note, Sriram, I liked your "Todos Locos" tune. Cool music, bro!
Thanks man!!!
Manoj Bajpai in Road. If you've seen this film (also starring Vivek Oberoi and Antara Mali), you'll know what I mean.
Manoj Bai was awesome in 'Aks' as well. Creeped me out big time.
Gong Li was superb in 'Memoirs of a Geisha'. I was completely enchanted with her wickedness.
When it comes to calling people out for using that wack, piece-of-shit phrase, I'm your Huckleberry. Best of all, this poet warrior has my six.
Alright. Well I guess that settles that. wack, piece of shit phrase. That there is an airtight response.
And which poet warrior would you referring to. Because I have many a poet warrior having my six, seven, eight and nine.
Before Tom Cruise jumped the proverbial (couch)shark, he did make a pretty slick villian in "Collateral".
That there is an airtight response.
It's an adequate response to something so obviously inappropriate. We've discussed why we disapprove of that offensive, useless term for months, most recently via that post I linked to, from Amardeep. I don't need to reinvent the wheel.
is somebody seriously arguing the right to use the term "uncle tom" and not have any backlash?
trying to think of some female baddies.
I think Kajol in Gupt was AWESOME! =D
i reviewed the above with the point of view that a villain one sympathizes with is really a representation of one's id, someone one can relate to or aspire towards. A villain woul alternately be called "cool" by those who feel constrained by societal norms and seek an escape, or "tragically likeable" by those who see the representation as reflections of one's darkest thoughts. It is the latter for me I suppose.
Funnily my thoughts turned to russian literature and to dostoevsky, tolstoy in particular - possibly because the morality plays are stark but not over complicated. i ran down the list of hadji murad, the eternal husband, notes from the underground, brothers K,... but the choice was not difficult. my fav is raskolnikov.
still, my original hypothesis doesnt quite hold for the cross-gender selections above, or does it?
I was surprised to see "Jism" at my local Blockbuster (I live in Jackson Hts.). I watched it and I could not believe how horrid it was, especially the so-called "femme fatale." She resembled petrified wood, she was so stiff. What a waste of my life...
my fav is raskolnikov.And mine is Sofya Semyonovna Marmeladova:) that must be the coolest name ever for someone living in sin:)
still, my original hypothesis doesnt quite hold for the cross-gender selections above, or does it?what's not to love in a villain, if (s)he embodies one's aspirations.
just thinkging out loud.
And mine is Sofya Semyonovna Marmeladova:) that must be the coolest name ever for someone living in sin:)is your current partner so familiar and good, your needs manifests itself in the desire to save a fallen woman.
Badass Female Villian: Natasha Henstridge in Speciesare you so tired of keeping up appearances in matters of control, that your fantasy is to yield yourself to a powerful other.
Humbert Humbert as played by James Mason in Kubrick's Lolitais there a teacher or an older person from your present or past who you'd like to seduce.
second-gen actor
Is that like he's not an actual actor, but he was born to parents who come from a country called actor-ia?
:-P
ECFI Uncle points out that Superman is Desi.
AH MY GAWD, hairy_d, how do you know these things? I will always lust after Mr. Uchida, my 7th grade "computer science" teacher.Humbert Humbert as played by James Mason in Kubrick's Lolitais there a teacher or an older person from your present or past who you'd like to seduce.
Predator from the the Predator movies is the coolest alein ever. Why couldnt he beat the hell out of some Arnold?
Magneto from X-Men
Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction
ECFI Uncle points out that Superman is Desi.
Maybe Superman wasn't but E.T. was :)
I would add:
Jennifer Jason Leigh from Single White Female
Al Pacino from The Devil's Advocate
The woman from the Piano Teacher (ooh that was brutal!)
and Mum-ra.
Matt Damon in "The talented Mr.Ripley" was chilling.
M. Nam
I was surprised to see "Jism" at my local Blockbuster (I live in Jackson Hts.). I watched it and I could not believe how horrid it was...
Just think how bad it must have sucked for all the non-desis who snatched it off the shelf thinking, "Hot damn! Indian porn! At Blockbuster even!!"
"Jism" actually means something else here in Ingerlaanda. Or so I'm told anyway. I don't know much about these things, being the shy sheltered type as you all know.
I don't know much about these things, being the shy sheltered type as you all know.
I choked on my mint when I read this...if something happens to me because of your badmash lies...I'm sending you the bill! ;)
I saw Superman at a super-sneak preview on Tuesday night at the Mann Village near UCLA.
Unfortunaterly Kal doesn't get to deliver any lines even close to the deliciousness of "just because youre hung like a moose doesnt mean youve got to do porn". That line in Harold & Kumar perfectly captured the ultra-smart slacker Indian attitude in the US. Too bad that there aren't too many like that character out there...
Back to Superman. Kal Penn's name got polite applause in the theatre. I think he had a few lines. Mostly like: "yes boss."
As for the film, it is a mish-mash. Where it works, it is absolutely spectacular. It is summer-blockbuster material of the first order: brilliant effects, drama and the super powers. Where it fails, it is sad.
Superman isn't nearly as good as Batman Returns or the two Spiderman films. But it is worth the $10 bucks. (And you get a bonus Spiderman 3 trailer in the fornt of it.)
I think they were more like "anti-heroes", rather than outright villains (I guess the same applies to my previous suggestion of Amitabh in Deewar & Don, along with Gordon Gekko). Otherwise we may as well start including Amitabh as Vijay Dinananth Chauhan in Agneepath, both Bachchans in Sarkar, and so on (plus some of Shahrukh Khan's earlier films).
Some others as anti heroes
Aamir in Earth-1947, he played Ice-Candy man brilliantly.
And the character Siddharth Tyabji played by Kay Kay Menon from Hazaron Khwaishein Aisi.
Selfish and unapologetic
Msichana,
I choked on my mint when I read this...if something happens to me because of your badmash lies...I'm sending you the bill! ;)
I was going to make a joke about the dubious connection between, er, "jism" in the English slang sense of the term and, er, choking on something, but decided against it as we can't have you coughing and spluttering too much in public and thereby drawing attention to our on-line undercover Mutiny.
Glad I made you laugh anyway. Never let it be said that I do not give a lot of pleasure to a lot of women I don't know very well.
Early Nana Patekar was creepy good!
Also the guy who potrayed Vardarajan Mudaliar in SARAANSH.
I was going to make a joke about the dubious connection between, er, "jism" in the English slang sense of the term and, er, choking on something, but decided against it
Beshaaram! (throws shoe at Jai)
"Superman isn't nearly as good as Batman Returns or the two Spiderman films. But it is worth the $10 bucks. (And you get a bonus Spiderman 3 trailer in the fornt of it.)"
I think you mean Batman Begins. please oh please tell me you mean batman begins.
"It's an adequate response to something so obviously inappropriate. We've discussed why we disapprove of that offensive, useless term for months, most recently via that post I linked to, from Amardeep. I don't need to reinvent the wheel."
Somehow, I don't think "Taj Mahal Badlandabad" really qualifies as a legitamite "desi voice" So thank you for the link, but I seriously doubt its applicability, no one's asking you to reinvent the wheel, but filling it up with air when it deflates could prove useful.
thank you for the link, but I seriously doubt its applicability
It seems obvious that you haven't read the link as it specifically applies to your thread. So far you've given no reason why you feel KP is selling out..
plus some of Shahrukh Khan's earlier films
Baazigar, Darr, and Anjam were some badass roles. Those movies really put him in the spotlight. I actually thought the dude was cool in his earlier TV shows, too, like Fauji and Circus.
HeroManyFaces #109:
Yeah -- I meant "Batman Begins". Thanks for catching that. Chris Nolan (director of Batman Begins) is a genius. Batman Begins is my favorite superhero film. Ever.
For this summer, I am eagerly anticipating the inevitable disappointment that will be Clerks II and the sublime pleasure of Borat the movie.
As for desi filmi types, I'll begrudgingly pay the tenner for M.Night's Lady in the Water. Although after the boredom of the Village, I'm not sure why...
Cheers.
I never said KP sold out completely, in fact I've said he's doing a good job of balancing it. Its pretty unfortunate that some people got caught up in the
actual term 'uncle tom' and completely bypassed the fact that I was complementing KP, sort of.
Anyway the thread has to do with writers make commentaries about each others writing. Which is completely, utterly, unequivocably inapplicable here. The thread concluded that
"people, can we just flat-out stop using brown sahib/uncle tom as a kind of in-house racial slur? Can we actually accept diversity of opinion within the South Asian/ diasporic intellectual world?"
and like I said before, Taj Mahal Badalandabad or whatever, hardly qualifies as a "diverse opinion" indicative of any "south asian diaspora intellect."
But I do know that bills need to be paid, and Hollywood having the type of history it does, will only accept minority characters in mainstream consumable roles - so I don't hold him at fault.
Like any actor in Hollywood, KP has to hustle to get jobs. His agents and managers have to put him out there for every possible role in hopes of landing a paycheck.
Also, like any other industry, Hollywood is first and foremost about profits. And unlike what the people would have you believe, Hollywood does NOT set the cultural tone for the country. Hollywood FOLLOWS it.
Movie executives are notoriously risk-averse. Forget about the merits of KP's roles. Think about the challenge that blacks and latinos (as much larger minority groups) have. A recent survey of top level executives at the major studios found that more tha 95% of the jobs were held by white men. Followed by a few women. A handful of blacks. And zero latinos. There are hundres of 20-something up and coming white actors and actresses regularly mentioned in the gossip rags. How many can you name that are Black or Latino? Bet you can't name more than 5.
As a result of the risk-aversion, you will never ever see a non-white-male superhero. (Female superhero films fail: Elektra, Catwoman, etc.) Blade, with Wesley Snipes, was an anti-hero. You will never see a summer-blockbuster that challenges the current generally accepted cultural mores. You will never see a challenge to the American way of life. You will never see the glorification of other cultures.
Of course smaller films get made by smaller organizations that attempt to do all these and more. But even these films have to face the make-or-break first weekend audience. As a result, a lot of self-censorship happens in this town.
Going back to KP. It is brilliant that the kid is getting roles. Unfortunately, he doesn't reflect any large built-in audience.
what was the point of using the term then?
Not to break anyone's bubble here -- but Hollywood is an incredibly shallow intellectual pool. Stereotypes about races, ages, even foreheads and teeth abound. For most films, the opening weekend is the high-water mark of revenue. As films cost more and more, the financial risk is managed by reducing market risk as much possible.
Many movie and TV executives are blindingly narrow-minded about race. Leads are white. Best friends are black. Asian women are hot and bitchy. All women have gay male friends. Other minorities do not exist. And given the massive financial gulf between white and latinos in Los Angeles, entertainment execs do not cast Latinos for anything easily.
For a very long time, black actors could not get past roles as thugs, slaves or henchmen. Robert Townsend did a brilliant (independent) film about the struggles of black actors called Hollywood Shuffle.
Even today, the ratio of 'good' roles for blacks and latinos vs. similar roles for whites doesn't come close to matching the ratio of minorities to whites in the general population.
So what is a minority actor to do? As racially charged as the term Uncle Tom is, minority actors wanting to earn a paycheck have to play along to get along. And that still often means portraying caricatures of their races on screen.
Jesus Christ folks.
This was a National Lampoon movie where everything, everyone, and every group gets made fun of in some way or the other. It's not something to get all wound up about. Some of you may not appreciate the context of this film, or any National Lampoon movie for that matter, but this really isn't THAT big of a deal. A character like Taj in some serious flick would be disturbing, but not in Van Wilder.
Hell, more than once Taj was a conversation among my non subcontinental friends and if anything, it led to discussions about [India] and them learning a few things at the end of whatever light hearted discussion that all were engaged in. All I've come across find the character endearing, memorable, and funny and don't usually expect me or any other desi to act that way.
Now, back to bad guys who rule.
- Max Von Sydow as Emperor Ming in Flash Gordon
- James Earl Jones as Thulsa Doom in Conan the Barbarian
with that said, perhaps can we use the term "caricature"? It seems "uncle tom" has some really offensive connotations, whether you intend to include them or not in using the term doesn't matter-- it's offended more than a few people, can we please have the manners to be a little kinder in the verbiage choice?
Speaking of "built-in audiences" - how is MTV Desi, doing, by the way? We are a strong force here thanks to our disproportionate economic might, but is our US population in high enough numbers to justify massive media coverage and equal footing yet?
I am just asking the question, I do not know the stats.
I guess I am just "happy", here in Michigan at least, that when some ignorant fool wants to insult me they call me a damn Indian now, vs. a damn Ay-rab or Abdul, or some such thing, as it was when growing up. Progress kids! :-)
PS - Desi Dancer. Just saw your site - great work and spirit! Also, if that is you on the profile, I am truly not worthy. What a beautiful woman! Are you single? ;-))
GujuDude:
Actually, you don't quite get the point. Taj Mahal Badalandabad's character is consistent with many of the roles available for minorities. Clearly, the film is a farce (a bad one at that) where everyone is a target for humiliation.
Your race defines the range of characters available to you. You don't get to pick the role. Casting agents pick you.
Minorities in complex, rich and full roles would require a discussion of racism in America. And racism is a taboo subject if you want to sell tickets. So what kind of roles do minorities get? They get roles that movies executives believe are the most innocuous. They fill their films with commonly accepted, non-offensive stereotypes.
KP will never get a role as a leading man in a major hollywood picture. He will never get a role where his Indian-ness is seriously explored. He will mostly get offered roles where he places either A model minority or a hilarious and wacky immigrant. (Both are considered non-offensive in this town.)
Harold and Kumar was a major studio realeased pic. And KP was the star. Yes, it was based on his ethnicity, but he was steadfastly kept the protagonist and was never denigrated.
"kumar, you did that well on the MCAT? What's your deal?" "Hey man, just because you are hung like a horse, doesn't mean you have to do porn."
It's a start. He ain't going to be replacing Brad Pitt in this country anytime soon. We have Bollywood with a much bigger audience, let's keep it in balance.
The challenge for minority actors in Hollywood is getting meaningful rules that don't perpetuate stereotypes (if they can find work at all).
The reason this discussion is relevant is that these roles reflect the broader culture. The Hollywood Marketing machine, as a proxy for the culture at large, has decided that minorites, by and large should only be cast as either model perfect or hilarious and wacky.
KP's role in Harold & Kumar was unusual in that the character subverted both the perfection and wackiness of minorities. As such, it is unlikely to be repeated. BTW, with a $9M budget and about $19M box office, this was a minor picture.
By and large, Indians in the US have fit squarely into the model minority: they earn above average incomes, win spelling bees and have been (up til recently) politically ambivalent.
Until the interaction of the Indian community with the majority culture expands and causes cultural conflict, the roles for Indian characters will continue to be in the model/wacky vein.
Funny sidebar on KP. A mutual friend recently shared that KP is vegetarian. Clearly that presented a challenge in filming the burger-gobbling scenes in Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle! Special veggie burgers were made for him.
Early Nana Patekar was creepy good!
Good point. He was excellent in Parinda.
Beshaaram! (throws shoe at Jai)
*Jai catches DD's shoe and adds it to the huge collection of shoes she's thrown at him previously*
Apu_is_innocent,
PS - Desi Dancer. Just saw your site - great work and spirit! Also, if that is you on the profile, I am truly not worthy. What a beautiful woman! Are you single? ;-))
DD is very very very married ;)
"with that said, perhaps can we use the term "caricature"? It seems "uncle tom" has some really offensive connotations, whether you intend to include them or not in using the term doesn't matter-- it's offended more than a few people, can we please have the manners to be a little kinder in the verbiage choice?"
When term is applicable it should be used. It's not volatile like "the N-word" In my view, the only people who'd be offended by it, are those that are accused of doing it. I've met many a south asian actor in LA, including KP. While they may not use the term, they all admit it must be done to some extent.
When term is applicable it should be used. It's not volatile like "the N-word" In my view, the only people who'd be offended by it, are those that are accused of doing it. I've met many a south asian actor in LA, including KP. While they may not use the term, they all admit it must be done to some extent.
I seriously don't understand why you insist on using this word, and attempting to convince everyone else on the thread that it's ok because someone you know maybe doesn't have a problem with it. The N-Word is not ok. The term you are so adamantly defending is not ok. Maybe it's because I was born here and am aadhi but the term isn't for South Asians, it has a whole different set of connotations and baggage and ugly, sick history. -Say Coconut if you really must go there, but the term you are so interested in throwing around has very horrible images and actions attached to it.
side note to Apu_is_innocent: thanks, yaar!
DD is very very very married ;)
yes, and this is my pati dev...
"DD is very very very married ;)"
aw shucks, foiled again! ;-)) And by Killer Khalsa at that.
But to the comments on Indians in the US media, I still think we have come a long way in a relatively short period of time. I hate cable news, but I see many Indian faces popping on there whenever I am stuck in the airport and forced to catch it (sidenote: I grew up with paging dr. gupta - read his bio, does the guy ever sleep??).
Like I said in an earlier post, when bigots call you by the ethno-appropriate insult and not "aye-rab" or "n***er", that's "progress" in America! ;)
As to the issue of being portrayed as a model minority, i'll quote a good friend of mine (who is black): "man I WISH people just assumed I could fix their computer or owned a store, instead of chasing me out of theirs!"
"I seriously don't understand why you insist on using this word, and attempting to convince everyone else on the thread that it's ok because someone you know maybe doesn't have a problem with it. The N-Word is not ok. The term you are so adamantly defending is not ok. Maybe it's because I was born here and am aadhi but the term isn't for South Asians, it has a whole different set of connotations and baggage and ugly, sick history. -Say Coconut if you really must go there, but the term you are so interested in throwing around has very horrible images and actions attached to it."
At the risk of dragging it out too far, I'll just say I insist on using because I think its applicable in some cases. And if you're trying to equate it with the volatility of using the N-word, I think that's way, WAY off base. As for using coconut or banana or someother fruit to describe it.. well, how many serious commentators out there have gotten anywhere using fruit ?
1. Let them eat static. Oh, yes, Khan, please have the Enterprise and everyone in it!!!!
2. Jack Nicholson as The Joker in Batman, of course.
3. Dennis Hopper as Frank Hopper in Blue Velvet. "Heineken? F*** that s***! Pabst Blue Ribbon ..."
Also, as much as I wanted him to die, die, DIE because of his obvious Nazi-esque wickedness, Ralph Fiennes' Amon Goeth in Schindler's List makes me all weak-kneed. *sigh* Ralph could have killed everyone in Red Dragon and I would have been A-OK with it. *double sigh*
Oooops, I meant Frank Booth.
I'm gonna side with WhateverMan on the KP slams - the dude is WORKING. As an as