He forgot Subway and gas stations.

what a complete buffoon.

btw, abhi, you thought highly of biden as a pres candidate? well then i'm glad this has happened... so you are rid of that illusion. (and don't ask me who i think would be better. the state of the dem party is not my problem, thank god.)

May be Biden was pointing to the fact that most Dunkin Donuts and Seven elevens are owned by Indians and Pakistanis.
I think Hillary's remark was worse than Biden's.

In anycase, arent these politicians supposed to be "for the small business owner"? Or it could be that they couldnt imagine that Indian-Americans can actually own these businesses and not just work in it.

Maybe its just that I am biased against Hillary for being so hawkish on the war. I hope she doesnt make it to the Dem's ticket. I am waiting for Gore to change his mind and jump in. Gore is the only guy who was right about the first Gulf war the second Gulf war and Global warming and he took interest in commercializing the internet.

Or a motel, hospital, college campus. I am offended!

Other places you cannot go without an accent according to Joe Biden:

- You cannot go into a Dry Cleaners unless you have a slight east/south east asian accent

- You cannot go into a strawberry farm unless you have a slight spanish, wait, mexican accent

- You cannot go into a bagel shop unless you have a slight hebrew accent.

- You cannot go into a pizza shop unless you have a slight italian/guido accent.

If he apologizes to us, then I'll be offended.

Biden is an utter dumbass. Glad you guys are catching on.

my understanding is that biden has a reputation for being kind of stupid (that is, untingelligent) on capitol hill (that's what staffers say apparently). not that unintelligent is a bar to the presidency, just sayin'....

That's it. He'll never get a cab in NYC again.

I bet all the Pakistani and other S.A.'s are gonna be mad for not saying that they work in 7-11 and Dunkin Donuts. How dare he leave them out...

This accent mimicing may be considered a joke, but I believe it degrades desis. I am in a manegerial position, and manage a whole slew of white blue collar type workers. One of them made it a habit to talk back to me in a mimicked indian accent, even though I do not have an accent. This implicitly challenges your authority. The shit continued even though I told my boss about it. I wrote to the company's attorney, and it finally stopped. Its very hard to prove damages in these cases, but this sort of behavior emasculates you and erodes your authorty. Its a very subtle type of racism. My desi brothers shouldn't take this lying down

My desi brothers shouldn't take this lying down

I was sitting up.

Next time someone does that too you laugh, and tell him you can't to see his white trash ass on the Jerry Springer show with his sister. Mimic a southern accent when you do it.

I agree, i'm not surprised Joe Biden made comments like that, from my friends on capital hill, i hear he sticks his foot in his mouth quite often. I am surprised that he made your top 5 Abhi. Here is someone to replace him in your top 5.

Evan Bayh, senator from Indiana. he is a bit too centrist/moderate it seems, but for the Dems to end this 8 year nightmare, they need someone who can carry GOP strongholds like Indiana and Ohio. Plus, he has a pretty likeable personality, something i think Gore and Kerry only found months after they had blown the game.

One time a senior co-worker cracked a joke at my expense when he saw me coming to my desk w/ my lunch; "Whattya got here Manju, some goat curry." I replyied, yeah, why don't you graba bottle of Manischewitz, and we'll have a party." (He was Jewish). The whole trading floor bowled Over with laughter--in part b/c few people ever challenged him.

the state of the dem party is not my problem, thank god.

siddhartha, is that because you are enthralled by the uber-principled john mccain, or because you are imminently moving to some corner of the earth -- say, antarctica -- that isn't affected by what the united states does? (oh, wait....) hmmm.... i know! maybe you've have found another party with a fabulous winning candidate capable of... being a spoiler gaining... 2.74% .00689% of the vote.... ;)

**

as for stupid comments like biden's, i think that as a community we tend to overreact to them way too much -- and worse, frequently let others use them as smokescreens to avoid talking about substantive issues that really matter. the important indicator to me is not the comment itself, for as research by mazharin banaji and others is increasingly making clear, implicit/unconscious bias is quite pervasive. (put differently, perhaps "everyone's a little bit racist.") the more important indicator to me is how the individual reacts after community concerns are raised -- and here's a good example of a bad response -- but even more than that, what their positions/actions are on issues that matter.

the important indicator to me is not the comment itself... implicit/unconscious bias is quite pervasive.

Serious loss of style points though.

if you watch the video- he was clearly joking. it's the kind of joke if one of your buddies made (brown or non-brown), it would be funny, because they know you. and basically, i think he was just trying to be all buddy-buddy with that brown dude he's talking to, but did a bad job of it, probably cuz he's a stuffy politician and doesn't necissarily know how to joke around with normal people. certainly a deuch-bag type move, the white boy trying to be down sort of thing, but not racist.

i agree with AK- we tend to get sidetracked by these things and lose track of the important issues. i like the argument a friend used- it's all fine to protest what that company printed on its t-shirt, but how come you're not also pissed about the fact that the folks who made the tshirt probably did it in crappy conditions for very little pay?

another side to it is that a lot of us are caught up in living our lives and doing whatever it is we have to do, so we don't have time to be outspoken on issues and get involved. so going all apeshit over someone saying something a little offensive lets us off that guilt because it's a quick, easy, non-controversial way to take a stand. taking a stand on other issues would involve a lot more effort, time, and perhaps risk to reputation, so we just do the easy stuff.

Yeah, I tend to agree (especially with the latter part of brown fury's comment). It seems like Biden may have tried to be cute and came off sounding ignorant. For the record I still consider him a top 5 Dem. 1-3 are just a lot better. Byah is VP material at best. Also if we (or I in this case) post something like this on SM it doesn't mean we want people to start a letter writing campaign or start screaming bloody murder. Sometimes it is more of a "hey, check it out. We made the news" :)

Here's a YouTube version of the video.

Here's the full quote:

“Manish, how you doin’? Well, good to see ya! As you know, I’ve got a lot of support from this Indian side. No, I’ve got a great relationship… In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. To fully… I’m not joking! Oh, gigantic.”

Gore, Warner, and Edwards

Btw I can't believe that mealy-mouthed content-free slickster litigator is still in your top 3.

It was a poor attempt at humor, that's certain. But the joke doesn't even make sense. I mean, if you're referring to the fact that many small businesses are run by Indian Americans, wouldn't you say something like you have to have an Indian accent to work there, rather than to go in there? Just sayin'.

All that aside, Biden's office has apparently decided it's a comment not worth apologizing for. Here's the statement released by his spokesperson:

Biden spokesperson Margaret Aitken:

The point Senator Biden was making is that there has been a vibrant Indian American community in Delaware for decades. It has primarily been made up of engineers, scientists and physicians, but more recently, middle class families are moving into Delaware and purchasing family-run small businesses. These families have greatly contributed to the vibrancy of the Indian American community in Delaware and are making a significant contribution to the national economy as well. Senator Biden has tremendous admiration for the Indian American community. They have enjoyed a long-standing relationship of mutual support and respect.

mealy-mouthed content-free slickster litigator

Genuine, great intellect, good campaigner, very articulate. I voted for him in th '04 primary.

Faker than Cristiano Ronaldo diving in the World Cup. Singlehandedly responsible for the 6" scar your sister or cousin now has from her unnecessary C-section. Predictably, popular with grannies.

Oh, and the cardinal sin-- shallow on actual policy.

So maybe he was Bizarro Dubya / Reagan then.

Btw I can't believe that mealy-mouthed content-free slickster litigator is still in your top 3.

well, you could argue that he's been talking about poverty a lot, and cares about it. at the same time, he was in the Senate for six years, but didn't really do shit on that topic, so his genuiness is a question. the bigger question is what he intends to do about poverty- is he gonna use new and innovative ideas, or the same old strategy of advocating to throw money at the problem with no smart initiatives. i think the dems have to begin to admit that other than social security, the great society has not really worked in the way we've approached it so far. and even social security is gonna fall apart at some point.

i think all these candidates are jokers except gore. he's the only one who can beat mccain. i know people doubt him, but i think it's important to remember that america loves a comeback. (hillary might also have that going for her). but gore still comes across as plasticky and stiff- kind of like he was in parts of his daily show appearance last week, which makes it hard to really feel what he is saying.

Here is what i thought in January and here is what I'd like to see still:

Some conservative Republican who caters to the lunatic right (see Allen from Virginia) will win the Republican nomination beating McCain. Maybe Hillary will win the Democratic nomination or maybe it will be Mark Warner, or someone else. What happens next (or should happen next) is that McCain wil leave the Republican party citing a culture of partisanship and corruption in Washington. He will become and independent and will maybe take a few members of the gang of 14 with him. He will then announce his Independent candidacy for the White House and start lining up people like Liberman or Feingold for VP, or Sec of Def., and other heavy hitters like Powell. There will be panic in Washington and both the Republicans and Dems will have to distance themselves from the fringe left and fringe right in order to hold on to their centers, which will defect in overwhelming numbers to McCain. I still won't vote for him but I'd LOVE to see this plan unfold. I'd like to see both parties largely destroyed so they can be rebuilt properly. What would be even better is if someone like Ralph Reed also starts a religious right party. That will box out that whole voting block.

In fact, Biden said, “You cannot go into a Dunkin Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent…

Sounds like he was channeling Mario Procaccino from the 1965 New York Mayoral race:

Mr. Procaccino had raced about the city, shaking the after-hours security gates in front of stores, loudly telling neighbors that there would be no need for such gates in the new, safe Procaccino New York, which he assured them he would be "inept" in administering. In a tardy effort to drum up support among some black voters, he said to them, "My heart is as black as yours."

Link

uhhh, it might be pretty fun to watch, but there's no way mccain would go down in history as a spoiler. that's not what he wants to be remembered for. he's a military guy, i'm sure that a major part of his credo is loyalty. one of his favorite books is "for whom the bell tolls". as a soldier, he's gonna do whatever the voters in his party want in the end. and him getting all kissy kissy to make up with bush and campaign for him, and the whole bob jones crap shows you that he won't let a candidate from the right beat him in a republican primary anyways.

no one else has the gravitas/charisma on the republican side that he does. only guiliani, but that's a big step for the republican party to vote for a guy like that. seriouosly- name a republican you think can beat him? maybe allen, but why? all the others are pretty second rate.

uhhh, it might be pretty fun to watch, but there's no way mccain would go down in history as a spoiler.

He wouldn't be a spoiler if he wins right? In the scenario above, if he would do it, I think he might win. People are sick of Republicans and Democrats. Has there been a better time in the last 100 years for an Independent to run?

OK granted the whole "indian accent" bit was fairly stupid and unnecessary....if he'd said "You can't go into a emergency room without seeing an Indian doctor or go into the faculty room of (lets assume) UD and not see an Indian professor " no one would be offended.

Personally I think there is a large % of Americans that have a similar "exoticized" line of thinking and I don't think they are always being negatively sterotypical. I work with a plant in Little Rock AK. There is one desi guy in the plant and the rest are all cowboys. Whenever I go down there I get according to most standards "ignorant" questions about Indians as much as NYC. And I sincerely believe there is no malice or negativity involved with it. They seriously are ignorant. Joe Biden unfortunately falls into that category.

A friend of mine won a bid to do the weather on Fox and Friends at a Tsunami charity auction. When he went on the show the anchor was so completely stupid and ignorant about his approach to my friend being Indian and the desi charity it was pathetic and this is a TV anchor. You'd think they'd know better. I seriously think a vast majority of people simply don't know better.

Some conservative Republican who caters to the lunatic right (see Allen from Virginia) will win the Republican nomination beating McCain. Maybe Hillary will win the Democratic nomination or maybe it will be Mark Warner, or someone else. What happens next (or should happen next) is that McCain wil leave the Republican party citing a culture of partisanship and corruption in Washington. He will become and independent and will maybe take a few members of the gang of 14 with him. He will then announce his Independent candidacy for the White House and start lining up people like Liberman or Feingold for VP, or Sec of Def., and other heavy hitters like Powell. There will be panic in Washington and both the Republicans and Dems will have to distance themselves from the fringe left and fringe right in order to hold on to their centers, which will defect in overwhelming numbers to McCain. I still won't vote for him but I'd LOVE to see this plan unfold. I'd like to see both parties largely destroyed so they can be rebuilt properly. What would be even better is if someone like Ralph Reed also starts a religious right party. That will box out that whole voting block.

This isn't really plausible in how you describe things happening, but in terms of the substance, it's sort of a version of what's actually happening--which is that the pro-business, not-as-crazy consensus among American politicians (what you call "moderates" here I think) are more respected and admired. As a result, anyone who believes in what the Democratic party used to advocate for (labor rights, the environment, women's rights, economic benefits for the poor as well as the rich, etc.) is labeled "fringe" for now even if they support decidedly tepid approaches and meanwhile Republicans like McCain can masquerade as "progressives" when they're decidedly conservative.

And there will be some progressive force that emerges (or you could argue has already emerged) and it will challenge conventional politics and it will push it to some new inoffensive centrist-lefist consensus and some things from the insane past 25 years will live on and other things will be reversed and a few things will actually change (e.g. i would guess there would be universal or near-universal health care coverage in the next few years--maybe the next decade, and some action on the environment). But ultimately not all that much will change unless people take a real serious hard look at what's going on in terms of American economics, growth of other powers, overpopulation, the environment, women's lives, etc. I don't really know what the solution is to the serious issues (e.g. alleviating global poverty vs. not completing the destruction of the environment) or how Americans and others in the United States could contribute to it.

The one place I disagree with you is that I don't think the Republican party will "die"--I just think its coalition will fracture because it's kind of reached an endpoint of what it can politically accomplish for its partisans. Its politics will hold on for a long, long time in some ways.

I agree w/ AK that comments like this tend to end up as tempests in teapots. As for the democratic woes, I think it all stems from the fact that no one out there seems to have any good policy ideas out for public discussion. At some point the party needs to stop being against everything and someone needs to introduce actual ideas that people can support. I also don't see a 3rd party type scenario unfolding. There is just too much money and power concentrated in the major parties for anyone to make an actual run for it. I think that 3rd party candidates are doomed to be spoilers for some time to come.

Biden is totally Cabinet material. I don't think he ever had the charisma to be competitive as a presidential candidate...even prior to this.

Unless there is a turnaroud in Iraq (end of insurgency, stable democracy emerging, maybe even the capture/death of OBL)the democratic base will demand an anti-Iraqi war candidate this time around, which will exclude Clinton. Gore will be sitting pretty b/c he's been consistent on this issue and has the gravitas and experience that Dean lacked, and he's already won the popular vote once.

In presidential politics, stature matters, and this is where guys like Biden and Dean fall short.

On the republican side, I think the telegenic romney is the man to watch depending how the evangelicals react to his mormonism. Mccain, rice, powell, guiliani, all have stature and would lead the party in an interesting direction.

Also, I always thought that that whole plagiarism incident back in '88 -- not to mention the other one during his first year of law school -- were the Dark Mark of his presidential aspirations.

Bad news for Biden, of course, but a ray of hope for Kaavya.

Serious loss of style points though.

Definitely no argument from me on that. I only wish that style predominated less over substance.

McCain will leave the Republican party citing a culture of partisanship and corruption in Washington. He will become and independent and will maybe take a few members of the gang of 14 with him.

Abhi, that's so spring 2000. :) The problem is that McCain basically agrees with most of what the hard right Republicans do, or at least doesn't care enough to really show any real backbone in resistance all that often. He's capitulated so much since 2000 -- including with the vaunted "gang of 14," which has basically greenlighted all of Bush's nominees through, including the most extreme among them, and accomplished nothing else except preserve the filibuster for use when Republicans are once again eventually in the minority. His "Detainee Treatment Act" turned out to be more or less a joke -- it almost cost the Supreme Court jurisdiction in the Hamdan case, and on the substantive provisions concerning torture Bush basically said "screw you" in his signing statement with absolutely no consequence. Now, we should all anxiously await McCain's other shoe dropping on the immigration compromise -- while he's with Kennedy on legalization, he's already gone along with virtually all of Sensenbrenner's enforcement provisions, and with Bush himself now possibly flip-flopping on immigration, McCain might not be far behind.

As for Sriram's point about Democrats standing for something, we could do a lot worse in starting to think through that very real problem than to start with Michael Tomasky's article a few months back in the American Prospect -- which, as I now look back at it to get the link, amazingly includes the following gem which illustrates my point about Biden's comment:

Sometime last fall, after John Roberts’ Senate Judiciary Committee nomination hearings but before the full vote, I was on a conference call set up by Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid with a few reporters and bloggers. The Nation’s Eric Alterman wanted to know whether Reid would make the Roberts nomination a party-line vote. No, he said; but he himself would be opposing Roberts. His stated reason: Roberts’ refusal to apologize to Chuck Schumer during the hearings for his use of the phrase “illegal amigos” in a 1983 White House memo. Let’s agree that Roberts should have apologized, said it was a poor attempt at humor. Let’s even say that it does demonstrate a certain attitude that is inappropriate to this day and age. But honestly -- of all the many reasons to oppose Roberts’ elevation to the Chief Justice’s chair, this is the main one cited by the top-ranking Democrat in the country? Like a bungling politician in a Milan Kundera novel, here is brave Reid, ready to defend the polity, not against reactionary interpretations of the establishment clause or executive power, but against a 20-year-old politically incorrect joke!

Now, I actually have enormous respect for Harry Reid -- he's courageously shown a lot of backbone and scored some clever and important victories at a time when Democrats have been forced to fight with political "weapons of the weak," given that the Republicans control every institution of government and run things pretty ruthlessly. But we're losing the forest for the trees when we obsess over comments like these. The fact is that many ignorant but decent people who are not racist, but rather are ultimately very tolerant people in many of the ways that actually matter -- and who are essential parts of any progressive majority -- do continue, even in 2006, to say these kinds of things, in many cases without even thinking about it or realizing any broader significance in what they are saying. And let's face it -- they may continue to do so for years. I'm not saying whether Biden does or does not fall into that category, but at a certain level it doesn't matter -- our goal should ultimately be to bring these people, whoever they might be, to our side, and not to alienate them by reacting to these dumb comments like schoolmarms and hall monitors, rather than like educators, community organizers, and bridge-builders.

/end rant/ ;)

gawd AK...if there were any doubts left about your disgustingly nice Kansan origins...

this is a TV anchor. You'd think they'd know better.

Actually, JOAT, it was "Fox & Friends," so I wouldn't think anything of the sort. ;) But I do understand and agree with your larger point.

Abhi, that's so spring 2000. :)

You all are haters. I have the best political mind since Josh Lyman. You'll see. Soon, you will all see. :)

Abhi- Gore. With Barack Obama as VP.

Abhi- Gore. With Barack Obama as VP.

That is my favorite combo too. I don't think Gore will run though so my best alternative is Warner/Obama.

Gosh, Joshie...who's your Donna? ;)

Gosh, Joshie...who's your Donna? ;)

Sigh. Same problem. Our careers got in the way.

Abhi- Gore. With Barack Obama as VP.

That name might require some extra effort for some people in pronouncing... given Ted Kennedy's "Osama-Obama" gaffe . Though Ted is known to be a bit slurred in his speech after happy hour...

Gore is about the least inspiring candidate possible. The Democrats need someone that at least appears to be human, especially since they are likely to be up against McCain. The best alternative is clearly Obama; he may not win but just being nominated would change the image of Democrats as out of touch, elitist, white liberals from the Coasts. The minority vote, which they have always taken for granted, is gradually shifting to the center, and if they aren't careful, they will be caught without working class support.

why the focus on heterosexual white males? we need to overturn heteronormative patriarchy brothers & sisters!

I actually hope Obama stays in the Senate -- we need more Democrats who care about building a broad-based movement that doesn't merely involve their own elitist, triangulating ambitions for the White House, and so far he's been one of the few with the talent to contribute to that. (No wonder that he's a former community organizer.) And while taking the White House in 2008 is important, that's not the long-term progressive salvation -- we need more of a movement mentality that focuses on building leadership at many different political levels. I'd like to see us focus on building the state parties and taking some state legislatures in time for redistricting in 2010-12.

"I actually hope Obama stays in the Senate -- we need more Democrats who care about building a broad-based movement that doesn't merely involve their own elitist, triangulating ambitions for the White House, and so far he's been one of the few with the talent to contribute to that"

I couldn't agree more. A senator has more room to create progressive change than the president. The president will be someone boring and stodgily centrist (Republican or Democrat...does it really matter?) but the senate I have much hope for.

And Gore for president, I wonder if he'll agree to run. That wouldn't be boring. No Hillary though, please no Hillary :)

Manju:

On the republican side, I think the telegenic romney is the man to watch depending how the evangelicals react to his mormonism. Mccain, rice, powell, guiliani, all have stature and would lead the party in an interesting direction.

You're joking right? About Powell? Right? Your party wingnuts publicly BBQd him so dishonorably, I mean, you have got to be kidding, right?

JaneofAllTrades hits the mark. If he had said that you can't throw a brick in San Jose without hitting a software developer named Sriram, no one would have minded. Why? Is there something inherently worse about being the owner of a Dunkin Donuts franchise than being a doctor or software developer?

There's also the matter of how sensitive we all are. I think a lot of brown folk need to get over themselves. Let everyone who thinks that Biden is going to propose a bunch of laws discriminating against Indians raise their hands. Anyone? Perhaps we should focus on substance more than form. On substance alone, Biden is a git. But not because of this.

The best alternative is clearly Obama; he may not win but just being nominated would change the image of Democrats as out of touch, elitist, white liberals from the Coasts.

But looking at Barack is like looking at a 12 year old in a room full of adults. He just doesn't have the experience. And what has he done, what are his positions? I don't know anything about him other than he's charismatic and has been annointed the dems next great hope. The more I learn about her, the more it upsets me that Granhomme, gov of Michigan is a naturalized citizen from Canada. I actually think, if you are going for a female candidate, that she would make a much better one than Ms. Clinton. I also think you can't get past the red state factor. The dems basically have to nominate someone who can swing a republican state in their favor, and I'm not sure any of the people in the field have that ability.

Why settle for someone like Hillary, Obama, Biden or Condi Rice when you have McCain. Just don't look at the recent past. Every republican candidate who wants to win in the deep south has to do some things that arenot be palatable to some of us but his long record clearly proves that he will be a good-great President. The only other candidate that should be considered if he decides to run is Chuck Hagel.

Sriram,
Let us see if the governor of Michigan can win her second term. I also think she was born in Canada and cannot be the President. I might be wrong on this.

Nara -- McCain felt the need to kiss the ring of Jerry Falwell in order to be annointed presentable by the right. I think I'll pass: we need -- not to mention deserve -- someone with more balls than that.

BarMaid,

As I said, any republican candidate who wants to win in the South has to do some things that will not be approved by some of us. But overall his record on Campaign Finance, National security, fiscal discipline and more importantly his ability to work with people from the other side tell me he will be a good to great President.

Also, can you tell me a better candidate - one who can win and also has a comparable record. Please not Hillary.

Barmaid & Nara

McCain felt the need to kiss the ring of Jerry Falwell

Realpolitick is ugly. Lets see how many Dems kiss Sharpton's ring.

You're joking right? About Powell? Right? Your party wingnuts publicly BBQd him so dishonorably, I mean, you have got to be kidding, right?

I no fan of Powell but I think he's still retained much stature among the american center. If you mean he was publicly BBQd b/c of his role in the WMD debacle, especially the UN presentation, I think he's only really lost credibility among people who wouldn't vote for him anyway. After all, Saddams desire for and use of to WMDs cannot simply be reduced to "he had no WMD's," as your party's wingnuts would have us believe.

Just throwing a bone out for Warner. Most Americans just want something basic from the presient-- competence and no bs. Warner's that. He would take out Allen if he ran for Senate in Virginia, easily. Self-made man (out-Edwards Edwards), good with technology (can out-Gore Gore). Southerner with roots in the midwest, (out-"red-state" any red-stater). Was a Governor, not a Senator , and actually managed to convince a republican-controlled state legislature to raise taxes. He actually has a vision for the democrats too (unlike Feingold), that's not your traditional democratic vision (like Clinton or Obama). I'm biased, from Virginia, but there's a good reason why he's a top candidate. Lack of foreign policy experience can either work with him or against him (he does have national security cred... 9/11 hit the Pentagon too), but considering the only candidate on the Republican side with tangible foreign policy cred is McCain, that might not be a problem.

hey Manju,

Do not compare Sharpton to Falwell. Sharpton may be dope hwo is full of hotair but Fallwell? I mean come on look at his hatefull statements about muslims and homosexuals and AIDS and then get back to me.

And Powell? Id like to see some reclacitrance first. There is no way he is ever going to be elcted with that tape of the UN speech so readily available. Sure he was just the messenger, but they shoot those dont they?

After all, Saddams desire for and use of to WMDs cannot simply be reduced to "he had no WMD's," as your party's wingnuts would have us believe.

I am no fan of the current Democratic party, (which is neither Democratic nor much of a party) but please don't tell me that this administration did not hype (not lie)the case for war. They used Powell's stature to make the case for war and then pushed him aside because he was not a loyalist. I support the war but not the hype that preceded it nor it's execution. There were good reasons for the war but this administration did not have the necessary personnel to make the case for it. Condi with her mushroon clouds, Cheney with his confidence , Wolfowitz and Rummy with their condescending attitudes were definitely not upto the task. Anyone willing to speak the truth was quickly dumped (remember Lawrence Lindsay and Gen. Shinseki)

I no fan of Powell

It is exactly the likes of Powell that are required to bring Conservatism back to its roots. I feel McCain, a supporter of the war, has the rhetorical tools to make case for a difficult and long but necessary war. Ask yourself this question - If President Bush stands up today and says that the North Korean/Iran threat is imminent, how many people will believe him. Not many, in my judgement. So let us hope the future of the republican party is in the mold of Powell and McCain and hope the adminsitration led by Karl Rove is coming to an end in 08.

I didn't get a chance to read the other comments, but I feel like this is a bit hypocritcal of a post - if he were a Republican, you guys would be all over him, calling him racist and urging letter-writing campaigns. But like Hillary, because he is a Democrat, you assume it was his attempt at a lame joke...

I didn't get a chance to read the other comments...

That is ALWAYS a good first step.

Manish V- your comment on Edwards and C-sections was sharp and incisive - pun intended!

I've said it before and I've said it again, Nara - McCain is most definitely not the conservative messiah - no one who could come up with McCain-Feingold understands any roots of conservatism, but I could be wrong. He could surprise me in the primaries.

OT, but: Hey, did you guys hold some kind of fundraiser without me? What if you have issues with the Paypal (don't ask) - how to donate, eh?

>>I mean come on look at Falwell's hatefull statements about muslims and homosexuals and AIDS and then get back to me.

It was very similiar to the late Pope's views on muslims and homosexuals. But when he died, the world's who's-who attended the funeral, there was nothing on TV for at least four days and statements eulogising him were made by leaders of most nations. Heck, India declared a mourning holiday!

The current Pope's views are not so different.

M. Nam

I didn't get a chance to read the other comments, but I feel like this is a bit hypocritcal of a post - if he were a Republican, you guys would be all over him, calling him racist and urging letter-writing campaigns. But like Hillary, because he is a Democrat, you assume it was his attempt at a lame joke...

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

MD,
The arguments I have heard against McCain-Feingold have all been flimsy. The only intersting one came from my favorite columnist George Will - it rations political speech which costs money. everything else was too partisan for me to pay any attention. But the corruption prevalent on both sides (mainly republican this time) makes the bill a necessary step, and only a step, in the right direction. To oppose almost every republican and take this on and then get it passed takes guts and he did it.

Can we name anything else that would make him a bad conservative? He is pro-life, supports a robust military, is for limited government,for fiscal discipline, supports sensible immigration policy and supports the good kind of states rights and actually served in the military. Can we name another republican, heck another candidate, with his credentials.

Since this is a thread on Biden's mishap, I think it's worth noting that Mccain regularly uses the term "gooks" to refer to his Vietnamese wartime captors. The press has given him a pass b/c of his POW status and rarely reports it.

I guess there is some consistency here as context and power relations are the reasons given to inconsistantly condemn some for racism and give others a pass, which I think is Siddhartha's cryptic point in post #64.

It's a plausable argument. Black racism does not have the same context as white racism for example. So in a way, maybe the press thinks McCain is speaking truth to power, or something.

I didn't get a chance to read the other comments, but I feel like this is a bit hypocritcal of a post - if he were a Republican, you guys would be all over him, calling him racist and urging letter-writing campaigns. But like Hillary, because he is a Democrat, you assume it was his attempt at a lame joke...

Your right! I hope he apologizes for Indians having accents.

I didn't get a chance to read the other comments,

Then do us all (yourself included) a favor and don't comment.

but I feel like this is a bit hypocritcal of a post - if he were a Republican, you guys would be all over him, calling him racist and urging letter-writing campaigns.

My, your clairvoyance is astounding. I wish I could perceive what this blog would do in hypothetical situations like you can.

But like Hillary, because he is a Democrat, you assume it was his attempt at a lame joke...

Oh, there's some assuming going on here, but it's not being done by those whom you're pointing your finger at...

Ok, ok, calm down.

I typed a little too fast. When I said "I haven't read the other comments," I meant to say sorry if I'm repeating another comment. I was really addressing the post itself, not the comments, so I didn't feel it necessary to read the comments first.

My comment about "what the blog would do" in a hypothetical situation was based on prior posts dealing with similar comments made by public officials or commentators.

I agree Manju, that there is a context issue. For example, when those radio show hosts in NJ made offensive comments I understood why this blog and others urged letter-writing because there was a particular context involved there. On the flip side, I can see how because Biden made his comment while commending an Indian-American there is a different context involved and perhpas this context indicates he did not mean it offensively, and perhaps did it as a joke. I just wanted to point out something to be aware of that and to say we should not call something offensive or racist only when we do not like the speaker or his or her views...

The Indian American Republican Committee has weighed in on the Biden gaffe (see press release below). Apparently, their leader (Dr. Vijay) takes greatest offense at Biden suggesting that all Indian Americans work at 7-Eleven or Dunkin' Donuts.

I have no problem with politicos taking advantage of the other party's stupid remarks for political gain. That type of spin is part of the game. But what's with the elitist sh*t? I'm a little sick of the pre-1985, highly educated immigrating professionals' attitude toward more recent Desi migrants, some of whom have become small business owners and staff their mom-and-pop stores with family members. I'm especially disgusted by Indian American doctors with little connection to the community outside of their close-knit professional associations voting Republican because it's in the best interests of their own financial accounts, but then fronting as if they have the best interests of the entire Indian community at heart.

Anyway, here's the IARC's statement:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Jack Hession - (202) 347-1223
IARC Administrator

July 6, 2006

Biden Insults Indian Americans

Washington, D.C. - IARC Chairman Dr. Vijay blasted Senator Joe Biden for his ridiculous comments about Indian Americans, which were posted for the first time today online.

"Joe Biden has a history of making insensitive and inappropriate remarks," said Dr. Vijay. "But even for him, this recent gaffe is clearly over the top. But this isn't the first time a Senate Democrat has insulted Indian Americans. In 2004, Senator John Kerry referred to Sikhs as terrorists and Senator Hillary Clinton jokingly referred to Mahatma Gandhi as a gas station owner. A clear double-standard in the mainstream media will likely ensure Senator Biden gets a pass over these comments that would get a Republican in deep trouble if he ever made a similar statement."

In the video clip posted on National Journal's website today, Senator Biden says:

"In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7/11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking."

"Senator Biden will be surprised to hear that I am a cardiothoracic surgeon, leading a national association of Indian Americans who are physicians, attorneys, and small business owners. It's amazing to know we don't all work at Dunkin Donuts or the local 7/11. The contributions to America by Indian Americans in the fields of medicine, education, science, and business have been well-documented. We're not asking Senator Biden to apologize for his embarrassing, stereotypical comments. However, we do appreciate knowing what he really thinks of his Indian American constituents in Delaware."

Nara: I'd take Mitt Romney over McCain as the Republican nominee.

oh geez not Mit. I really am no McCain fan ( was until he siggidy-sold out during fake election 2004) but Romeny? First of all we cant fit all his kids ( mormon) in the white house, they're gonna have to put a trailer in the driveway for all the romney seed. Secondly he is a sl;ipperly politcal animal that guy. at least McCain HAD shown some backbone and independance. Anyone from the Commonwealth will tell you that Romney is securly in a bunch of backpockets, like he was a tin of Skoal or something. Also, his hair scared me. That said...they might run 'em...but considering we've only had one Catholic prez, I dont see Mormon happening

Nara - rationing political speech is a pretty big no-no for me. It's no theoretical objection on my part- the more speech is regulated, the less free it gets. I just don't like it. This crosses the line for me, personally, but I accept that others disagree.

Like all political creatures (and I respect his service very much, but still) he is a slippery animal. NOw that it's closer to the presidential run, he's making all the right sounds and noises, but he's too nanny state for me. His performance at the baseball steroid hearings was an embarrassment. We've already had enough compassionate conservatism. He likes to be popular, which worries me.

Give me Guiliani any day of the week over McCain.

Do you guys know about 1968? that's probably the closest recent analogy for this election--particularly if you put it in the context of the razor-thin 1960 election that Kennedy probably stole. The Republican coalition is fracturing and may tear themselves apart. I can see McCain maybe getting nominated, but it seems like the wingnuts in that party have gone crazy and wouldn't do that eminently sensible--for their interests, not mine--thing. Pretty much everyone else is a non-starter.

Meanwhile, the Democrats will have a real primary, probably come up with some cnadidate that's okay but not spectacular, and then call it a day after winning or coming close (also probably not in my interests). They'll almost certainly make a few gains in the House and the Senate. Regardless, the longerhtis Republican rule contineus, the more likely it is that hte Democrats are going to gain power in Congres s.

Not that this will change much structurally in the u.s. centrist politics will contineu to move towards being more aimed at men, at developing benign but ultimately harmful solutions to immigrants as the new underclass, taking modest but not effective steps to deal with global warming, failing to comprehend the diminution of American power, etc. Maybe the Democrats would save New Orleans though--that would be nice.

Anyway, I look forward to the day when political discussions in this country aren't so fundamentally f@#ked up.

My comment about "what the blog would do" in a hypothetical situation was based on prior posts dealing with similar comments made by public officials or commentators.

Like which posts, specifically? Either put up or shut up: give an example in which some Republican has been criticized in a SM post for a comparable comment -- and not for substantive reasons -- and we can have a meaningful conversation.

Give me Guiliani any day of the week over McCain.

As a New Yorker, all I can say is that whoever you are, wherever you are -- please, take him. And make sure he doesn't come back.

IARC tool Dr. Vijay said:

"Senator Biden will be surprised to hear that I am a cardiothoracic surgeon, leading a national association of Indian Americans who are physicians, attorneys, and small business owners. It's amazing to know we don't all work at Dunkin Donuts or the local 7/11...."

No wonder Republicans are running our country into the ditch -- this response doesn't even have basic, 7th grade logic on its side. The essence of Biden's stupid comment wasn't that all Indians work in Dunkin' Donuts/7-11, it was that all Dunkin' Donuts/7-11 workers are Indian. Definitely not letting that guy operate on me....

Whatever, New Yorker. I'd be happy to take Guiliani here in Boston, which....no wait. Siddhartha has banned me from Boston bashing comments. That gun buy back program by Menino just rocked, though. That ought to stop all the violence.

Ak - what Biden said was that you cannot even get into a 7-11 without an Indian accent, which is just tortured and wierd and cringingly bad small talk. That's what you get for tooling around (better word for Biden than Dr. Vijay) around Washington all these years.

If Dr. Vijay is a Republican tool, who is an Indian-American Democratic tool? Any names?

I for one can't think of one good reason why Democrats would want to win elections and rule America in the coming years. If they had any sense in them, they would plan to lose by a small margin, allege election fraud, and thumb their Republicans for the next four years by needling them endlessless on all issues.

If they win, they will inherit a country at war, a housing bust and an economy on the verge of a recession. They will inherit a runaway fiscal deficit.

A section of wide-eyed Libertarians came on to the Bush administration and tried to reform the finances by cutting back on needless expenditure. They found that the system is so rigged, so mired with self-serving bureaucrats and special interest groups that it could be fixed. So these Libertarians did the next best thing: They installed their own moles everywhere, and increased spending and wasteage rampantly, in the process guaranteeing that the system would become bankrupt and self-destruct sooner or later. They've increased corruption to levels un-imaginable since the history of this country. If we can't fix it - we'll set it up for destruction.

Would the Democrats like to inherit this? Are they insane? Then again, come to think of it...

M. Nam

Line in previous post should be read as: They found that the system is so rigged, so mired with self-serving bureaucrats and special interest groups that it could'nt be fixed.

M. Nam

I'd take Mitt Romney over McCain as the Republican nominee

BarMaid
I will admit I don't know much about Mr. Romney. I am impressed by the fact that he won in MA the most liberal state in the union (I heard other people and pundits call it that. i do not really have any proof that it is more liberal than Vermont). I know that he was associated with either Office depot or Staples and was partly responsible for it's current state.

so you might be right and he might be a better candidate but I am missing the wow factor that I need to convince me that he is better than McCain. I am willing to be eduacted.

Give me Guiliani any day of the week over McCain.

MD,

Having lived in NY for over 5 years when Guiliani made this city livable, I for the most part agree with you. But I think he tends to be a little rough around the edges. I like him as attorney general initially and President in 4/8 years. I don't think he is that old.

I think his skills as a diplomat can at best be described as questionable.His foreign policy experience is non-existent and this bothers me because of the current situation.I generally don't like guilt by association but this whole Kerik conviction is troublesome.

They've increased corruption to levels un-imaginable since the history of this country. If we can't fix it - we'll set it up for destruction.

The League of Shadows is behind this. I know it. Batman will save us :)

Moor Nam, are you serious with all that doom and gloom economic talk? Corruption at an all time high in this country? Does anyone read any history books that go back beyond the 60s anymore?

Nara

Guiliani could add Rice to the ticket :)

Romney has been so-so as governor, but he has so little to work with in this state. Loss of population two years in a row, and you still can't wake up the government. It's so 1972 around here. Okay, not entirely. Things have improved in the past few years, but it's still a highly regulated, stiff, sclerotic place and high housing prices, while flattening out in recent times, are hampering growth in Mass. Who on earth would want to do business here? Oh, crap. Siddharth is going to kill me....I said things have improved, haven't I?

(Now, that should really get people riled up.....three, two, one......)

>>The League of Shadows is behind this. I know it. Batman will save us :)

Are you sure Batman can save you from Ragnar Danneskjoold?

>>Moor Nam, are you serious with all that doom and gloom economic talk?

What Doom and Gloom? This is good news! Libertarians in the administration are only advancing the timeline - instead of events happening 20 years down the line, they will happen three years down the line. Housing should go down. Un-necessary govt departments should fold due to lack of finances. Social Security/Welfare should collapse. The dollar should fall. I see no reason why a Chinese peasant should make less money than an American farmer or why an Indian programmer should make 1/10th of an American programmer. The whole point of globalisation is equalisation of remuneration for the same work.

Agreed that if something happens in three sudden years it will be painful. But it will only sow the seeds for the next expansion of the world economy, led by America.

M. Nam

Guiliani could add Rice to the ticket :)

And the curent stench from the white house will continue :).

I thought the point behind globalization was economic freedom, not equalization per se. That sounds awfully, er, socialistic for you Moor Nam :)

Having lived in NY for over 5 years when Guiliani made this city livable, I for the most part agree with you. But I think he tends to be a little rough around the edges. I like him as attorney general initially and President in 4/8 years. I don't think he is that old.

Yes, perhaps he could oversee the locking up of young Black and Latino men all over the country and install Manhattan Institute staff in the Cabinet.

MD -- I don't recall defending Biden's comment, and don't necessarily disagree with your characterization of it at all. But the way in which Dr. Vijay has reinterpreted that comment is telling, for all of the reasons discussed by TheenPathi. And there is indeed a knee-jerk, half-baked quality to Dr. Vijay's statement that is tool-like -- these kinds of really matters so much less than substantive positions on real issues. But apparently Dr. Vijay has nothing to say about that. I'd frankly say the same thing if a desi Democrat fixated on a dumb comment by John McCain, rather than focusing on his lack of backbone on substantive issues that matter.

Incidentally, the guy actually goes by "Dr. Vijay"? Inevitably evokes an image of a desi Dr. Phil. Bleccch. ;)

sorry, sentence in previous comment should have read "these kinds of comments really matter so much less...."

Fair enough, AK.

I really do not understand the big fuss about this whole issue.

Have you ever seen a Hindi movie which does not overtly ridicule the accent, mannerisms, clothing, skin color of a South Indian character? Every body laughs about it all over India eventhough the same bit or character may play to a silent audience in South India. So much for trying to search for racism in Joe's comments. Since when did we become so hyper senstive about it.

Have you ever heard an Indian song (regardless of the language) not praise the "gori" skin ladki or not ridicule the "kali" skin ladki. So much again for racism.

Have you ever seen a matrimonial ads from Men seeking brides which does not start with a "looking for a fair, slim...blah blah.. girl" or women describing fair complexion (as an asset/adjective) when they post the ad. Now tell me either one is really dumb if fair is not equal to white (in a relative term). So much hoopla about racism.

Why am I giving the above examples just to show that how racist we are in the first place and how we practice it so shamelessly back home in our day to day life and of course over here too. So why complain ? In fact Joe is not a racist as such and most of us know - wait now that is a stretch.. alright some of us know what racism is really about..

My advice therefore is to not get carried away by being hyper sensitive but start the change within before we complain about others....

That is my 2 cents and I will get off the soapbox now..

This is two years after the fact but: hear, hear Prasad!

Another fellow Madrasi,
H.

Actually people really should watch the lengthier clip - Biden does go on to mention that 30% of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are Indian-American:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG8RUP31oIY
While I agree that that the reference to 7-Elevens and Indian accents is stereotypical and offensive, it's not as if Biden is unaware of the success and economic diversity of the South Asian American community.

83 · MoorNam said

The whole point of globalisation is equalisation of remuneration for the same work.

moornam, with the copious volume of, er, "wisdom" that you so generously share, it is hard to surpass yourself, but this time you have. the "point" of globalization, as it were, is to leverage comparative advantage to maximize the value of your money, not to equalize remuneration or any such thing.