July 11, 2006
BOMBAY'S RUSH HOUR ROCKED BY BLASTS (11 Updates)News
Breaking News in Bombay via AP:
Seven explosions rocked Bombay’s commuter rail network during Tuesday evening’s rush hour. The blasts ripped apart train compartments and reportedly killed dozens, police and Indian media said.
Though the chaos makes it difficult to ascertain exact numbers, how many have been injured, Indiant tv reports said that “the death toll could be in the dozens.”
40 80 100 105 137 163 172 200 people have died and 300 464 700 are injured. I’m sure that before I can even update this post, one of you will comment with the latest numbers; I sincerely hope that they are not high. I know, I’m excessively idealistic, but whenever I hear “Breaking News”, “Bombs” or “Trains” or similar, I screw my eyes shut and pray for miracles.
Television images showed injured victims sprawled on train tracks, frantically dialing their cell phones. Some of the injured were being carried away from the crash site. The force of the blasts ripped doors and windows off carriages, and luggage and debris were strewn about.
Pranay Prabhakar, the spokesman for the Western Railway, confirmed that seven blasts had taken place. He said all trains had been suspended, and he appealed to the public to stay away from the city’s train stations.
Bombay, India’s financial center, and New Delhi, the capital, were reportedly on high alert. Bombay’s commuter rail network is among the most crowded in the world.
Developing… :(
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UPDATE # 1
Though CNN is reporting that no group has claimed responsibility, the NYT has updated the article I originally cited with the following:
The blasts appeared to have come in quick succession — a common tactic employed by Kashmiri militants that have repeatedly targeted India’s cities.
The first explosion hit the train at a railway station in the northwestern suburb of Khar, said a police officer who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
India’s CNN-IBN television news, which had a reporter traveling on the train, said the blast took place in a first-class car as the train was moving, ripping through the compartment and killing more than a dozen people.
…All of India’s major cities were reportedly on high alert following the attacks, which came hours after a series of grenade attacks by Islamic extremists killed eight people in the main city of India’s part of Kashmir.
……………………..
UPDATE # 2
MANISH IS OKAY.
The image you see above is from Ultrabrown; his post on this horrific terrorist attack is here.……………………..
UPDATE # 3
CNBC’s reporter phones in to update the death toll: 100.
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UPDATE # 4
The Mumbai Help blog has resources, updates and a very important reminder that blood donors are needed desperately.
If you’re not shaken to your very core by this tragedy yet, perhaps this simple quote from that site will affect you as much as it has unexpectedly moved me (every other person on my team at work is a PWCer):
I’m so sorry
harshad borgaonkar from price waterhouscooper. His i-card was found amongst the debries [link]
My prayers are with all who were lost, those who are injured, those who are fighting to literally pick up the pieces and help, those who cannot reach family and friends and everyone else who is affected by this craven, calculated attack.
……………………..
UPDATE # 5
Bloomberg.com provides new and updated totals:
India’s commercial hub, was rocked by seven explosions on trains and in commuter stations yesterday, killing at least 163 people and injuring 464 in the nation’s worst terrorist attack in 13 years. [link]
There is now a wiki for the event and instead of lashing out scornfully against India’s neighbor, please note that it was created by a Pakistani-American in California named Sabahat Ashraf (via ASATA’s mailing list). SAJA says he “helped lead similar resource (sic) during 2005 Kashmir earthquake”.
SAJA’s contribution to blast-related resources—which includes a link to SM Alum Manish Vij’s Ultrabrown— is here.
……………………..
UPDATE # 6
Via Reuters, the grim reality of the wounded city, where predictably, they are running low on hospital beds as well as blood:
“Most of the patients have received burn injuries and are suffering from severe trauma,” M.E Yeolekar, head of Sion Hospital, told Reuters.
“In my entire career as a physician, this is the second destruction I have seen of this magnitude,” he said, referring to bomb blasts in the western city in 1993 which killed 250 and wounded around 1,000 people.
On whom we are praying for:
Hundreds of relatives frantically pored over a list of dead and injured outside the hospital, a scene repeated at many other hospitals, packed with people searching for friends and relatives.
Some of the people who entered a makeshift morgue were unable to identify badly mutilated bodies.
Considering some of the uglier talk on this thread and elsewhere, it’s important to remember that Muslims died, too:
“I spoke to him 10 minutes before he died,” said Haji Mastan, sobbing uncontrollably over the death of his cousin Mukti Mahmood Darvesh, who was travelling on one of the suburban trains.
“Why did it have to end like this? He was young and he has children.”
It’s always darkest before the dawn:
In another hospital, staff constantly mopped up blood from the floor as patients were being wheeled in by the minute.
“We collected scattered limbs with our own hands and put them in bundles and sent them to hospital,” said Santosh Patil, a railway labourer, as he stretchered in a mangled body.
First person account of an attack designed for maximum carnage:
“It was a deafening sound and before anybody could realise anything the roof of the train was ripped apart,” said Mukund Thakur, who was travelling to the northern suburb of Andheri.
“People were thrown outside. I saw limbs strewn around me.”
During our lowest moments, all we have is each other:
Local people distributed food and water among hundreds of people who waited for news from their near and dear ones.
“We are trying to persuade them to have something,” Gurpreet Singh Bangar told Reuters.
“In this moment of distress and tragedy, people don’t care for food,” he said. “But everybody has to live.”
……………………..
UPDATE # 7
More from the Beeb. Some commuters never had a chance:
An eyewitness at Mahim told the BBC some of those who had jumped from the train were run over by another train coming in the opposite direction.
Others were lost in the stampede which was inevitable, considering all the panic.
What price, for a life? Nothing can truly compensate for such a staggering loss, but…
The Indian railway minister, Laloo Prasad Yadav, has announced financial help for the victims and their relatives. He said relatives of those killed will get 500,000 rupees ($11,000) each.
He has promised jobs for the victims’ relatives and said the railways would also bear treatment costs for the injured.
……………………..
UPDATE # 8
I know, it’s ten hours old, but this quote from the web chat WaPo hosted with Suketu Mehta, the author of Maximum City, almost makes me smile:
Washington, D.C.: As a former Bombay resident, I was pleasantly pleased at the way the city reacted to the bomb blast last time around. I hope the same sense will prevail this time as well — nothing defeats the terrorists more than gettting back to normal within hours of such an incident.
Every resident of the city — former or current — walks wounded today.
Suketu Mehta: Bombay is not going to be beaten down by these blasts. In 1993, the blasts killed 257 people; one of the buildings bombed was the Stock Exchange. The plotters were hoping to cripple the financial nerve center of the city. When the Stock Exchange reopened two days later, using the old manual trading system because the computers had been destroyed, it actually gained ten percent in the next two days. Just to show them.
Show ‘em again.
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UPDATE # 9
Mutineer Neha reminds me to check and then change the “tolls”. At this point, 900 people are either dead or injured (200/700). Have mercy.
The number of dead in the eight near-simultaneous bombings during Tuesday evening’s rush hour in India’s financial hub has risen steadily as rescue efforts uncovered more bodies and people have succumbed to their injuries.[link]
Meanwhile, the city kept on keepin’ on and Suketu Mehta (see Update # 8) was right. As one tipster wrote about the Sensex in our News tab, “Can’t touch this”:
Following the serial bomb blasts in Mumbai yesterday, the Sensex opened marginally (nine points) lower at 10,605…Early nervousness saw the index slip to a low of 10,550. However, buying emerged at these levels and the index rebounded into the positive zone.
Unabated buying in technology and select index heavyweights saw the index surge to higher levels in the latter half of the day. The index touched a high of 10,939 - up 389 points from the day’s low. The Sensex finally ended with a gain of 3% (316 points) at 10,930.[link]
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UPDATE # 10
More, from the Guardian/AP. While people once again board trains and the city limps back to its routine, hell isn’t over for far too many Mumbaikars:
Authorities say they do not know how many missing people there are. But Indian television stations are broadcasting pictures of dozens of missing in the hopes of helping relatives locate them.
You know how everyone knows or is related to someone in NYC? Same with Bombay:
“I’ve been searching for hours. I don’t know where else to go,” he sighed.
His colleague’s family lives in the southern city of Bangalore. “His wife called me up and said she hadn’t heard from him and we’ve been searching ever since.”
Because so many hospitals are treating victims, the search is difficult, Ahir says. Making matters worse, many with lesser wounds have been sent to the city’s many small clinics because the hospitals are overflowing.
“What do I tell her when she calls again?” he asked.
I hadn’t even thought of this heartbreaking reality:
There are also victims without families.
At a suburban hospital, a small boy lies unconscious, an oxygen mask strapped to his face. No one knows who he is.
“We searched him for identification, any photographs, but there is nothing,” said volunteer Shilpa Basin. “What if he was traveling with someone and they are injured as well?”
How many children are orphans now? If he wakes up, will this little boy even know where he’s from, what his parents’ names are, who he is? Heartbreaking.
This reminds me of Lower Manhattan, after September 11:
Gandhi, a college student, said her family had spread out to various city hospitals. “We’re taking his picture and showing it to anyone - to injured people, even to relatives of victims. Maybe someone will remember seeing him and we will find him,” she said.
Another horrifying problem: how do you identify someone after something like this…
Gautam Chavan, is fearing the worst.
“I saw how the coach had exploded, if that is the state of a rail coach, what chance do people inside have?”
Scenes of badly wounded people being brought to the hospitals upset him.
“What if we can’t recognize him? What if he’s not recognizable? When will we know?” he cried.
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UPDATE # 11
Via The Hindu: Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri makes tactless remarks, which rightfully get condemned by India (and me).
External Affairs Ministry Spokesman Navtej Sarna said “no cause” could justify killing of innocent people…we find it appalling that Foreign Minister Kasuri should seek to link the blatant and inhuman act of terrorism against innocent men, women and children to so called lack of resolution of disputes between India and Pakistan”.
What did the Foreign Minister say exactly? Oh, just this:
Kasuri has said the “best way” of dealing with extremism in South Asia is to tackle “real issue” of Jammu and Kashmir.
Right, because that justifies the slaughter of innocents.
Noting that not much progress has been made on Kashmir problem, (Kasuri) said “incremental approach is good but now we must tackle real issues. And this is the best way of tackling extremism in South Asia”.
Of course it is. Kill first, talk later.
anna on July 11, 2006 10:23 AM in News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
¤ Isaac Schrödinger said: Explosions in Bombay II
¤ Kyun.org said: Mumbai Bomb Blasts
I am stunned! Just got off the phone with my Mom and she tells me that very quickly the trains are coming back up. People are getting back to work and there is a sense of remorse as well as a defiance to not let the terrorists win. Both my parents are ...
¤ Pickled Politics said: Blasts in Mumbai
Terror struck Mumbaiâs lifeline seven times in 11 minutes when the first-class compartments of local trains to the cityâs western suburbs were ripped apart by powerful blasts. At least 150 people were killed and over 600 injured. … The blasts...
¤ DesiPundit said: Bomb blasts in Bombay
There have been a series of blasts on trains in Bombay. Various bloggers are posting updates on Mumbai Help. Sepia Mutiny and Ultrabrown (in Bombay) have constantly updated posts on the blasts. ...
¤ Ultrabrown said: Terrorists blow up Bombay trains
At least 70-80 innocents were killed this evening by losers shifting their gimpy sights from downtown Bombay (257 dead) to the booming suburbs, including my own. Aaj Tak reports 7 bombs exploded from 6:06 pm to 6:50 pm on the Western rail line during t...
Just heard about this. Tried calling home, but it seems that all the lines are jammed.
I think the numbers around 60 right now. http://www.ndtv.com/breakingnews/default.asp?refno=711200674044PM.
for those of you who have loved ones in Mumbai, too, my prayers are with you that everyone is ok.
Email's working. My folks just emailed me to say they're ok. Fucking terrorists.
Try text messaging your friends and family back home. May go through despite phone lines being jammed. Scary...scary..I have got family living near those areas.
Thanks for the updates Anna. I had no idea.
Yep. Phone lines are jammed, but email is OK. Just got several from my family...
http://mumbaihelp.blogspot.com/ for updates. Condolences to the victims and their families. Here is hoping that this does not lead to further bloodshed. As a Bombayite i grieve for my city but am sure the Bombayite spirit will surmount this tragedy.
Those with family and friends in Mumbai can use the following numbers to get information about their well-being:
MUMBAI HELPLINE: (022) 22005388
COOPER HOSP: 26207254, 26207256
HINDUJA HOSP: 24451515, 24452222
(from NDTV.com)
The first thing that came to my mind is 1993 blasts. It is sad to see so many people loose their lives in a such a manner. I hope everyone's families and loved ones are doing fine.
The latest report below mentions that as many as 100 people may be dead.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/11/D8IPS0T00.html
Masale.Wallah, how exactly do those numbers you provided work? Will they provide info on the victims or call folks at home for people who cant reach them due to jammed phone lines?
My mom was in one of the following trains and she got down near Borivali. She could see the carnage from outside. The phone lines are jammed. Very difficult to get in touch with people. Thats the exact time and route, I used to take when I was in Bombay and a lot of my friends still do the daily commute. Trying to get in touch with them
Why is it so hard to get information on TV? CNN was showing images from Mumbai and talking about Saudi text books! And then Daryn whatever-her-name-is said "let's get the latest from Italy." Seriously. Everything they're getting is attributed to AP.
A CNN IBN reporter said 100 dead but 300+ wounded.
In this moment - pray for everyone's health and well being. For the people who have lost loved ones: I offer two statements from our Mahatma: Hate the sin, love the sinner. [For,] the weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
I hope that the death toll does not rise further.
Why is it so hard to get information on TV?
MSNBC's coverage is quite comprehensive. They're virtually feeding CNBC-India's live-feed for the last 2 hours.
You can also view the live-feed of CNN_IBN at www.ibnlive.com
I have tried getting in contact with relatives using both a Reliance calling card and the old fashioned dialing method - but no luck. I've e-mailed a cousin, currently visiting New Delhi, and hope to hear some good news. MSNBC's website does seem to be the strongest of the news websites right now.
Try SMS..they're working fine.
My dad got through to a mobile.
Keep hitting redial, if email isn't an option.
CNN IBN is calling it Mumbai 7/11...
Terrible, I know, but it sort of made me giggle.
Tamasha,
It is appalling how you make light of the situation, neither 9/11 or 7/11 as you put it are giggle inducing. People have lost their lives and the least you can do is show some respect.
Those trains are mad crowded too. this could get bad....i'e got some frineds that live around there. scary...
Try SMS to reach your loved ones. That will work better.
Also Mumbai Help Blog is up and running, leave your contact info there, and one of them will try to reach your family/friends.
Usually, Mumbai's suburbs don't get much attention, and it's just sad to see the names of suburbs around which I grew up flashed on American news in such a context. Borivili, Jogeshwari, Santacruz etc.
It is appalling how you make light of the situation, neither 9/11 or 7/11 as you put it are giggle inducing. People have lost their lives and the least you can do is show some respect.
let's try to hold off the sanctimonious sniping for, oh, maybe half a day at least? stay focused, people.
i quote from the AP article: "The blasts appeared to have come in quick succession a common tactic employed by Kashmiri militants that have repeatedly targeted Indias cities."
I noticed they were called "militants", not "terrorists". Does anybody think this is because the bombings happend in india, not the usa/western europe/israel/whatever? Or am i reading to much into their choice of words?
My prayers to all those who went through this ordeal, Those poor folks...
I'm sure somewhere out there the people responsible for this are watching tv, smiling, hugging co-conspirators and e-mailing messages of congratulations to each other and receiving them from their supervisors.
Whatever their cause is, they believe innocent civilians are a worthy target.
Whether they are religious zealots committed to bringing out communal tensions or Terrorists who favor the 'Kashmir Liberation', I hope the strength of India's intelligence goes after them with the same fervour as they went after 'D' company gangsters.
And once they are proven guilty, EXTERMINATE them and any other would be martyr's to the 'cause'.
Just spoke to my Mom. Redialling continuously works. SHE WAS IN THE TRAIN IN WHICH THE BLAST HAPPENED AT BORIVALI!!! She was at the other end. She heard a loud noise, The train stopped, could not figure out what happened. Got out of the train. The cops were everywhere and were ushering people out of the station. She got a lift back home.
PardonMyEnglish said:
I noticed they were called "militants", not "terrorists". Does anybody think this is because the bombings happend in india, not the usa/western europe/israel/whatever? Or am i reading to much into their choice of words?
You are reading too much. AP/Reuters/AFP/BBC routinely call terrorists militants/gunmen/insurgents/etc whether it is Thailand, India, Israel, US, Spain, etc. Even Osama has been labelled a "militant" (at least once). Welcome to the nightmare that is the MSM.
I just got through to Bombay-based relatives - no one in her family was hurt, but one realtive cannot get home, since all train service has stopped. Her husband was killed in the blasts of 1993, so she has avoided additional heartbreak, for now.
May be its too early to speculate the motivation behind these attacks but heres my 2 paisas. All the places (stations) where the blasts occured are known to be residential and commercial areas where medium to big businesses and rich people reside. Furthermore, the bombs were place in the first class compartments and not the 2nd class. Does this mean that this is a deliberate attack on the Mumbai 'classes' and not on the Mumbai 'masses'. Sorry if this comes off as an insensitive comment, but I grew up in northern Mumbai suburbs and this thought just occured to me.
msnbc and bloomberg are reporting that the indian government has named dawood ibrahim as a possible suspect in these blasts.
i pray for all the victims and their families. the images are stomach churning. the scenes and stories of people helping one another show the spirit of the city in the face of such an outrage.
My prayers are with all who were lost, those who are injured, those who are fighting to literally pick up the pieces and help, those who cannot reach family and friends and everyone else who is affected by this craven, calculated attack.
I'm even praying for those responsible, since they are certainly going to HELL. What a vicious act.
Mumbaikar, glad your mom is okay. prayers for the families.
Hope the toll doesnt rise anymore as it is upto 135 died now.
Amit,
I think that's probably because its easier to get a bomb onto a 1st class coach than a 2nd class one. Getting anything onto a Mumbai 2nd class coach, especially during rush hour is practically impossible.
Thanks, Jeet. The post has been amended accordingly.
Same updated number included here.
This is disgusting. Are we going to see the muslim community come out in force against this like they did
with some books and movies they find objectionable? I'm guessing not. I'm begining to this Islam is a religion
with a violent streak enabled by the vast majority of its adherents. Maybe breeding them out of Kasmir is the solution.
I'm begining to this Islam is a religion with a violent streak enabled by the vast majority of its adherents. Maybe breeding them out of Kasmir is the solution.
Vikram, I ache for you and everyone else who is affected by this and I am outraged as well, but if we let this incident fuel THAT kind of hatred within, then that cliche about the terrorists winning will be true. :(
My thoughts are with everyone with family members and loved ones in Mumbai right now.
I can't help but also hope that this tragedy is not compounded by communal violence. We've seen it all too often in the aftermath of these types of terrorist attacks in India. If militants are responsible, a religious war is probably what they want. Peace.
One thing I noticed. When terrible things like this happen outside of the US, the victim count tends to rise steadily as they find more. It's that funny little thing called, accuratae reporting
But on 9/11, at least the news reports I saw, first estimates were much much higher, at 20,00, then 10,000, then on the dave letterman show which aired 6 days after 9/11, letterman says "we've lost 5000 fellow new yorkers" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueoBp1ktcBE)... until finally they settled on a real number.
Just something I haven't taken notice of until now.
I can't help but also hope that this tragedy is not compounded by communal violence. We've seen it all too often in the aftermath of these types of terrorist attacks in India. If militants are responsible, a religious war is probably what they want. Peace.
To be accurate- following the most recent terrorist attacks in India, there has been little if any retaliatory violaence. The Diwali blasts last year, the attack on the mosque in New Delhi, the Varanasi blasts - you did not see retaliation. Basically, India's reputation took such a beating after Godhra in 2002, that New Delhi floods the streets with paramilitaries to keep the peace.
And while this declining incidence of communal retaliation is welcome, what is not welcome is New Delhi's inability to punish terrorists. By comparison, Israel may be going overboard in sending troops and tanks into Gaza for one soldier, but scores can get killed in India - and New Delhi does nothing. You have an extremity of action by one nation, and no action by another. For all the reforms of India's business sector, it's political sector is as broken as ever.
Vikram,
The muslim community will only act as any unfairly threatened minority would at times like this. To vilify an entire community based on the actions of a few deranged and misguided people is ridiculous. I agree that this is a difficult time for everyone and deeply empathize if the incident effected you at a personal level, but baseless invalidations are uncalled for.
This is disgusting. Are we going to see the muslim community come out in force against this like they did with some books and movies they find objectionable? I'm guessing not. I'm begining to this Islam is a religion with a violent streak enabled by the vast majority of its adherents. Maybe breeding them out of Kasmir is the solution.
Vikram; It is fanatics like you who are responsible for the kind of communal tensions that the rest of us in India have to pay a price for. Did you, for instance, react in the same way when over 1,000 muslims were systematically hunted down and killed during the Godhra riots? Or during Ayodhya? Does that mean that Hinduism has a violent streak enabled by the vast majority of its adherents? Think about it dude, and try and curb your rabid impulses in favor of some much needed rational and level headed reactions in times like these.
This is disgusting. Are we going to see the muslim community come out in force against this like they did with some books and movies they find objectionable? I'm guessing not. I'm begining to this Islam is a religion with a violent streak enabled by the vast majority of its adherents. Maybe breeding them out of Kasmir is the solution.
Vikram (36):
Do you know any Muslim people? The "vast majority" that I know condemn such attacks and are frightened by the repurcussions. Let's face it, the people who did the act got away with it (at least for now), but we know that innocent Muslims will be targetted for retaliation. Sort of like Sikhs after 9/11. Did you all pause teh way i did after 9/11 and have a fear about going into public places?
Vikram, perhaps you did not realize it, but your words are frightening and divisive and in the long run will only do more harm. Please consider carefully before commenting.
This just reeks of Al-Qaeda. 7/11 for India. I hope things brings down the left there.
Here's a good view of the Pakistani reaction
nubamountain,
yes 1000 muslims were killed, but after they set a train of hindus on fire. hindus do not act out their grievances using violence. hindus have been systametically ethnically cleansed from Kashmir. the pandits are no longer. yet we continue to appease these people and today is the logical consequence. i'm only standing up for 800 million hindus who are told to keep quiet and not rock the boat while they live by a different civil code and are blown away on their way home from work.
browniefromtx,
islamic fundamentalism can only fetser if they have some sympathy among the larger community. which is the case here. when rushdie wrote a book they were in the streets by the millions. you won't see that tomorrow.
The link you provided is doing an amazing job of connecting people. Blogs can be so powerful
Go read those reactions from some Pakis that Adi linked too. Those are more representtative of Paki reaction.
This just reeks of Al-Qaeda. 7/11 for India. I hope things brings down the left there.
Right, just what we need. Bring the bajrang dal into power and watch them rebuild a great empire.
*Rolls eyes*
Vikram on July 11, 2006 01:21 PM · Direct link nubamountain,yes 1000 muslims were killed, but after they set a train of hindus on fire. hindus do not act out their grievances using violence. hindus have been systametically ethnically cleansed from Kashmir. the pandits are no longer. yet we continue to appease these people and today is the logical consequence. i'm only standing up for 800 million hindus who are told to keep quiet and not rock the boat while they live by a different civil code and are blown away on their way home from work.
browniefromtx,
islamic fundamentalism can only fetser if they have some sympathy among the larger community. which is the case here. when rushdie wrote a book they were in the streets by the millions. you won't see that tomorrow.
Seriously, people get a grip.
In a time like this we need each other as humans. stop blaming one another and help in any way you can. God is watching this and the terrorist will surely pay double for what they have caused here
Vikram:
Read Marc Sageman's "Understanding Terrorist Networks". Though it does not investigate Kashmiri jihadists, it may give you a better background on how internal debate and dissention within the muslim community has evolved. Where peaceful jihadists promoting Islamic, but peaceful education, were pushed aside by violent jihadists (Bin Laden,Zawahiri, etc. al)
IF India wants to rid itself of these tribalistic attitudes that permeate Hindu and Muslim communities, law enforcement and the justice system need to be far more decisive in their actions and applied evenly everywhere. Islam is just another tool being used by those who seek authoriatarian power, because at the end of the day it is a human being that makes decisions to rationalize blowing people up.
Are Tamils a society that have a violent streak? LTTE has commited very violent acts. Are Colombians ineherently violent? Narco terrorism is bloody and violent with the cartels as well as groups like FARC. Are Americans inherently violent? We've been in periodic fights over the past 100 years?
thanks for everybody who posted the help blog URLS. I've been unable to reach any family there (phone, sms, email), and am glad to have some other channel of help.
Vikram - ok, you made your point. This trajectory, which we've heard on SM more times than I care to remember, is not really helpful at this time. If you have something to offer in terms of information that would be appreciated by us all. I grieve too Vikram - my friends and their families live in Mumbai. Many of them are Muslim and have been affected by this act of violence.
Vikram (46)
You ay:
islamic fundamentalism can only fetser if they have some sympathy among the larger community. which is the case here.
Preposterous!
What about white supremacists in the US? Do you think they have sympathy among the larger community? Most of my neighbors are white. Should I be worried in the same way if I were Muslim living in a Hindu neighborhood in Gujarat? Hmmm. We need to get you away from your computer and into the real world young man!
islamic fundamentalism can only fetser if they have some sympathy among the larger community.
Vikram,
Could you tell me a little more about this sympathy? Give an example, perhaps?
Vikram, I see you're getting beat up a lot. It's too bad, because I understand the spirit of your message. Let's face it people, Certain religions have a propensity towards belligerance. Does that mean every muslim wants to fly a plane into a building or every christian wants to bomb an abortion clinic? No. But I think we'd be well to admit that "Hindu Violence" isn't really born out of any strict adherence to Hinduism, or even a warped version of it.
No one says "To die for Rama, Krishna, Ganesha, Parvati, Lakshmi, Durga, Murugha, Ayappa, will make you a martyr and get you 72 hunnies up in the sky"
nevermind the trolls, people.
The people who died today, belonged to every faith. In true Bombay spirit, people are helping each other out, offering lifts, shelter etc. This is not the time nor place to start the blame game.
this is really sad that everytime india has to bear this inhuman act of terrorism..i dont think that there is any end to this, we are not safe anywhere.i pray for all those innocent lives which are lost for no reason and for all those people who are fighting with their injuries,i wil really request our goverment to take a qick initiative rather than conducting meetings and sessions.... this has again depicted a very sad picture :-(
This is so terrible. I was in class when I first heard and I was hoping that it wouldn't turn into what it has become. I'm praying for all those poor people and their families. Hopefully the death toll doesn't get any higher.
The amazing thing about the city is that it will be back tomorrow like nothing ever happened. The resilience of the Mumbaikar is something special.
Siddhartha,
Aye aye on that one. I will be strong.
hindus do not act out their grievances using violence.
Vikram: Remember one Nathuram Godse? Advani? The Sena? Bajrang Dal thugs setting a missionary and his two children on fire in the name of Hinduism? You might want to educate yourself on communal violence in the last fifty years (a good place for you to start is "Ethnic Conflict and Civic Life : Hindus and Muslims in India, " Ashutosh Varhsney's book on riots in post independence.) Also, in in an effort to dispel you of the silver lined image of Hindus/ism, read this piece by Amitava Kumar. There's a chance that you might just evolve to resemble the main character in his reportage.
browniefrmtx,
You are not especially bright are you? How many violent acts do white supremacists engage in on a regular basis? And when they do there are marches against racism in the streets and they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Hell the US even has hate crimes laws to make the penalty even higher. Please tell me about the large white rallies where they threaten to behead any non white who insults the prophet George Washington in cartoon format. Get a grip on reality first.
please have some sensitivity, people. This is SM, not Sulkeha.
ONE more comment about, from or inspired by Vikram and I swear the banning will commence, this is NOT the time nor the place, Mutineers. >:(
Guys,
Please spread the word, there is Mumbai Help blog and Wiki as live internet help.
Before this gets into a shouting match, click on the link below. MSNBC provides a timeline of terrorist attacks in India, but for some reason, it omits terrorist attacks in 2004 and 2005. Someone who gets does not follow South Asian affairs may get the impression that the so-called "peace-process" was working, and that this attack today is a sudden attempt to disrupt the process.
My thoughts go out to those whose families and friends have been affected by this tragedy.
"Lots of chaos as expected on the roads, many people walking home, cars stopping to offer lifts to people, locals - men, women, children - offering assistance right outside the stations where the blasts occured - with bottles of water and food and helping in any way they could. He said it was a sea of humanity."
i hope reader's digest is taking note of the above comment from kush's mumbai help link.
SMS seems to be working more reliably than most other telecom options. Have been furiously texting relatives and friends. My fiance lives next to the Mahim station and saw/heard the blasts from home. Apparently the rain is compounding the woes of rescue workers. Also briefly chatted with a muslim friend in the US who is quite scared about this tumbling quickly into any form of religious backlash. Hope that does not happen.
Has any group come forward to take responsibility? (For these or the Srinagar blasts?) Last I read, the Hindu said no one had. I would be curious also to understand if there were any intelligence failures - this kind of thing takes some planning!
And finally, prayers to all ye Gods - may the perpetrators burn.
Does anyone know if there is a the status of diplomatic efforts to get Dawood Ibrahim extradited?
Is there currently an effort on the part of Indians in the US to convince the US govt. to put pressure on its "ally in the war against terror" to do so.
These are the most poignant words I have heard from a Mumbaiker.
Whom were you trying to target? The working class men who struggle for an inch of space in local trains? The working women who knit and cut vegetables in trains on their way home? Young, dreamy students discussing exams and love? The babies accompanying their mothers, smiling back at the women around them?
Darkness is fast falling. Its raining like it will not stop. Will the rains wash away the blood? Will tomorrow be a new day. Here's to lost lifes and broken dreams.
Please all pull it together.
"I would be curious also to understand if there were any intelligence failures - this kind of thing takes some planning!"
one of the american tv channels quoted someone who said an indian government official said they had been expecting something like this but didn't know exactly where. so there may have been intelligence about this attack but not enough to pinpoint the exact location. but given mumbai's high profile and previous terrorist attacks there, one wonders whether the govt. failed in not protecting the transit system or whether the information came too late.
Death toll up to 146 according to NDTV.
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=terrorstrikes&slug=Serial+blasts+rock+Mumbai%2C+146+killed&id=19794&callid=0
"Union Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar, however, has said leaders should not rush to Mumbai as it will hamper relief work." - quite a relief to see some sanity at this time.
Adi,
Thanks for the link, some interesting stuff in there.
To be fair - India has improved its ability to detect and stop such attacks. There have been a number fo cases in teh past year where police or security officials found unexploded bombs on train platforms, or broke up cells of men plotting such attacks. But one of the first lessons of counter-terrorism is "You have to be lucky 100% of the time. The terrorists have to be lucky just once."
Folks, let's not get belligerent on each other here. Save the blame game for later. Right now, let's get help to all the people. I'm glad to see the Mumbai blog where people are actually helping each other. Perhaps they should make an online site for emergencies like these.
As for the hateful comments, I understand the argument from both sides. But let's not point fingers until we get proof of who is behind the attack.
And Vikram, I know what you're trying to say. I feel the same way you do now. I have family in Mumbai and I don't know about their situation in Khar. But anger can turn into hatred very easily.
As for those arguing with Vikram, please cut the guy some slack. It's easy to sit here and pray for the victims. However, your feelings would be very different if you had lost relatives back home.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both sides are expressing opinion, and just because Vikram's opinion is a bit extreme and not what you want to hear, doesn't make him wrong. We can either tolerate such acts and pray everytime innocent people die, or we can get aggressive and retaliate. Take a look at India. They can have a lax attitude towards terrorism, or they can be like Israel and start a military strike. But these things are much bigger than us folk. All of us arguing here and posting comments will not have a big impact on them.
last I heard, death toll was around 150, injured was 250-300. This is the number I've heard from multiple sources.
"I would be curious also to understand if there were any intelligence failures - this kind of thing takes some planning!"
The Indian Home Minister Shivraj Patil said that the government had warning of an imminent attack, but not its time or place.
The Communist parties condemned the attack and call for relief efforts on a "war footing."
The opposition BJP accused the present government of being "soft on terror."
The VHP (World Hindu Council) called it a "Jihad on Hindus" (heh).
People like Vikram & Co. and the likes of Advani who wasted no time making a big deal out of the terrorist Muslim ties blah blah are pathetic. I grew up in Bombay, and would appreciate it if people could show their "concern" in more productive ways than getting on soapboxes and launching into uneducated tirades about terrorism. The local train stations, especially the ones further out (i.e. not Churchgate and Bombay Central) do not have good security or even ticket-checking mechanisms. I've always been struck by how easy it is to just walk into the station and on to the platform. Let's hope this will be a wake-up call and that all the big money that politicians and the state have made from Bombay will finally be used to boost security and infrastructure. I also very much hope that the much-touted disciplined cadre network of the RSS and Sena will focus its energies on helping people affected by the blasts rather than spouting bigotry.
If all this tragedy is to you is another chance to vent your religious prejudices, bugger off somewhere else and fight your armchair battles - India doesn't need you.
From Gaurav Sabnis: The police have clarified that the 8th was not a blast but was defused unexploded. So 8 blasts were planned but only 7 went off.
If all this tragedy is to you is another chance to vent your religious prejudices, bugger off somewhere else and fight your armchair battles - India doesn't need you.
Yeah, that's right.. you represent the whole of India..
"
They can have a lax attitude towards terrorism, or they can be like Israel and start a military strike."
we should be embarassed to have india turn into the next israel, a rogue pariah state.
The problem with India is the usual corrupt politicians and the lack of uprising from people. They round up volunteers to burn down theaters, stores, etc...., but rarely do these volunteers show up during tragedies. I think it's wrong for people to vent out their religious intolerance, but we should talk about the faults of the government. I know there is a tragedy taking place at the moment and people are panicked about their loved ones, but it's times like these the truth comes out.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both sides are expressing opinion, and just because Vikram's opinion is a bit extreme and not what you want to hear, doesn't make him wrong. We can either tolerate such acts and pray everytime innocent people die, or we can get aggressive and retaliate. Take a look at India. They can have a lax attitude towards terrorism, or they can be like Israel and start a military strike. But these things are much bigger than us folk. All of us arguing here and posting comments will not have a big impact on them.
To me, that sounds a lot like the moral relativism that the left is often accused of, and I strongly disagree. I don't think Vikram is wrong because he's saying something I don't want to hear, I think he's wrong because he is. I have family in the affected areas, and I spent the morning trying to get in touch and making sure everyone is OK. I lost a (distant) relative in the twin towers. So please save me the lecture about how I might feel when these things affect people dear to me. I'm still capable of thinking rationally during trying times, and don't turn into some hate-filled person the moment people I care about are threatened.
You also present a false dichotomy, one that we hear all too much these days. You say we can "either tolerate such acts" or "get aggressive and retaliate." I don't see that as the two arguments being put forth. I for one am all for getting aggressive and retaliating, the question is against whom. I'd like to catch the terrorists responsible for these acts and bring them to justice. From his comments, Vikram seems to be suggesting that we should be retaliating against muslims, because they are responsible for supporting terrorists. That is what many of us find troubling, and indeed, hateful. (All this is assuming Islamic terrorists are behind these attacks, of course, which is certainly a pretty good guess. I agree with the comments that criticize the Indian government for their failure to bring past perpretators to justice.)
So Vikram says because innocent people have been killed here, we should kill innocent people in order to get 'revenge'? How about just catching the guilty and leave innocent Muslims alone, unless he believes that no Muslim is innocent, in which case he is the exact same moral equivalent as the terrorists or the people who support such terrorism.
God help the bereaved and injured and their families.
DTK,
I am not condoning Vikram if he said that we should go after Muslims. Two of my best friends are Pakistani so please don't state that I'm a "hater". But if let's say that some Islamic terrorist group from Pakistan was behind this attack, then yes, we do need to retaliate. And by retaliate, I don't mean attacking the Muslims of India. I mean confronting the Pakistani governmment which more often than not backs these terrorists. Again, I'd like to state that I'm not in support of any attacks on Muslim civilians. But a majority of the time these terrorists are Islamic and are sponsored by Pakistan. By stating that I think India should retaliate Islamic terrorists doesn't mean that I want India to attack Muslims.
I agree with the comments that criticize the Indian government for their failure to bring past perpretators to justice
What is particularly depressing is how many of these terrorist groups often have support of political parties wthin India. In addition to a number of militant Islamic groups, you have the Naxalites which get support from communist parties, Tamil Tiger sympathizers have a number of political parties as well (but I cannot keep the initials of the parties straight), and then you have Bihar which is nothing more than series of fiefdoms, where each babu has their own personal militia, squared off against low caste militias. And don't forget the Congress Party officials who got away with the anti-Sikh riots in 1984, and the BJP-linked men of Gujarat in 2002.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both sides are expressing opinion, and just because Vikram's opinion is a bit extreme and not what you want to hear, doesn't make him wrong.
No, right now people are trying to express horror and grief and comfort to everyone, and developments of the story. Not opinions. What makes Vikram and other wrong is the timing of the comments.
There will be plenty of time for opinions later. Oh boy, will there ever be!
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both sides are expressing opinion, and just because Vikram's opinion is a bit extreme and not what you want to hear, doesn't make him wrong. We can either tolerate such acts and pray everytime innocent people die, or we can get aggressive and retaliate.
What Vikram and people like you are saying is WRONG, no ifs and buts about it.
an eye for eye? What will be the difference between you and the terrorist if you are going to take innocent lives just as they did. We can do better than jungle-raj
Desicritics has some important numbers, for hospitals, etc. in Mumbai. Please spread the word.
Cell phones are too busy. They have provided land line numbers.
"ONE more comment about, from or inspired by Vikram and I swear the banning will commence, this is NOT the time nor the place, Mutineers. >:("
Not trying to be a flamer troll or whatever, but an event such as this is pretty darn likely to spurn this kind of debate. You're more than welcome to threaten banning, but I for one hope you don't.
Not trying to be a flamer troll or whatever, but an event such as this is pretty darn likely to spurn this kind of debate.
HeroManyFaces, don't be ridiculous. Where is the debate?? The inappropriate commenters are saying that muslims are to blame, even though no one has claimed responsibility and no evidence has been found. Only an idiot would jump to conclusions absent any evidence.
So don't.
The reason for the potential banning is because accusations are inappropriate now. Now is the time to find out what resources are available, what numbers can loved ones call, and what the situation is like there. Please don't contribute to the hate and accusations. Now is not the time.
That Mumbai Help Blog is wonderful .. it's great to see people coming together and helping each other try to locate their families/friends. My prayers are with everyone affected.
LeT, SIMI(Students Islamic Movement of India) hand in Mumbai blasts
Sorry LeT, we always blame only u guys for whateva going on in INDIA.
update on Students Islamic Movement of India
Mother Fuckers
Noticed the link to the Maharashtra state relief and rehabilitation department feedback site on Mumbaihelp - do you think anyone actually reads that feedback? Wonder what the best way to raise hangama about the lack of preparedness might be. I hope citizens groups like Bombay First get on this case. Will see if there are petitions to sign. If anyone is aware of such efforts, do please report.
Awful, awful
My prayers are with the victims and their families.
After the expulsion of Saddams forces from Kuwait City in 1991, the British journalist Robert Fisk described as best he could the imperial dungeons, makeshift prisons, and seeping stench of rotting flesh and oil. Something evil, he wrote, has happened here.
Something evil, indeed, has happened today in Bombay.
Guys, these comments are turning into a debate. Those leaving comments (including myself) have turned this into a argument. Right now, this is not about our feelings or thoughts. This is about the people of Mumbai who need help. Let's stop leaving argumentative comments - I know I left some and now I regret it. Let's give the comment space for those looking for relatives and can provide information regarding this disaster. We'll continue our arguments on another post, but for now let's hope people get through this tragedy. Agan, I'm sorry if I was party responsible for staring a flame-ware but I'm backing off and so should you guys.
CNN IBN is calling it Mumbai 7/11... Terrible, I know, but it sort of made me giggle.
Going back to comment #19, it has been bugging me for a while now how the media loves to surrender an entire day on the calender over to terrorists. 9/11, 7/7, 7/11, 3/11. Are they going to keep doing this until each country gets a terrorist day of their own? I would hope that people make a concious effort to refer to these attacks as the World Trade Center Attacks, the Pentagon Attack, The London Bus and Tube Bombings, The Madrid Train bombings, and now the Mumbai Train bombings. I know it may take a little longer to say but for me at least if gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I am not losing days from my calendar to terrorists.
Rahul said:
I am not condoning Vikram if he said that we should go after Muslims. Two of my best friends are Pakistani so please don't state that I'm a "hater". But if let's say that some Islamic terrorist group from Pakistan was behind this attack, then yes, we do need to retaliate. And by retaliate, I don't mean attacking the Muslims of India. I mean confronting the Pakistani governmment which more often than not backs these terrorists. Again, I'd like to state that I'm not in support of any attacks on Muslim civilians. But a majority of the time these terrorists are Islamic and are sponsored by Pakistan. By stating that I think India should retaliate Islamic terrorists doesn't mean that I want India to attack Muslims.
OK, fair enough, we are mostly in agreement then. I read your earlier post as implying that you support what he had said, some of which was extremely reprehensible in my book. Obviously India would have to be careful with respect to how it deals with Pakistan for very realpolitik concerns, but otherwise I agree that India (and the world) needs to be tough on the Pakistani government if it turns out this was planned by one of the ISI-supported terror groups.
it has been bugging me for a while now how the media loves to surrender an entire day on the calender over to terrorists. 9/11, 7/7, 7/11, 3/11.
on a total, total tangent, have you noticed how this is leading the American convention of Month/Date to creep into the discourse of places where the standard is Date/Month.
Something like this was bound to happen, it was just a matter of time. To quote Vikram Sood "In combatting terror you need to be lucky 100% of the time, As a terrorist you only need to be lucky once". India would have long gone after terrorist camps in Pakistan, However india possesses a disadvantage as all Pakistan has to do is dangle the nuclear damocles sword over India's head. Hamas doesn't even have a military or Israel would be in India's shoes.
Terrorism is evil. Killing innocent people is evil, We've heard this over and over however i wish the Government of India took pains like the USA to improve its intelligence assets by aggressive recruiting of foreign born Indians and improve its intelligence assets. Targeted assassination, extraordinary rendition should be the tools that India should cultivate. God knows, if there is a justification for these policies India has strong qualifications. No doubt if there was a 'Dawood hand' in this in any way, he has to be eliminated , pure and simple. India has had plenty of opportunity and motive when Dawood was walking through the streets of Sharjah with his aviators and gold chains and the women on his arm. Thousands of Indians have seen Dawood in dubai, How hard would it been to place a couple of agents and blow Dawood's and Tiger Memons brains out when he was peacocking in Dubai's nightclubs. For God's sake that man made a media statement when he walked out of a theatre in Dubai after watching the bollywood movie 'Company'. Instead the CBI has to go through the formalities of 'diplomacy' and got rejected and stood up, WHY?? because India refused to extradite an Indian Driver and his arabian Princess wife when asked to do so (both were of legal age and had eloped). I've grown up in the middle east and this was the most persistent rumor for the feet dragging in Tiger's case.
If we had RAW assassinate Dawood, what would the UAE do ? attack us ?????? The government treats Indians as a necessary evil anyhow!!
India has to be aggressive, but in the right way as the option of crossing over to Azad Kashmir could spell death for thousands of Indians anyhow because of a nuclear strike. It is a fact that Musharraf had his finger on the trigger during his grand dreams of placing Pakistans flag in Srinagar.
I'm not placing the blame for the attack on Pakistan, But India's intelligence though improving need to be a little more aggressive with regards to "India's most Wanted".
It is 12:30 am here in Bangalore, but I cannot go to bed because there is a man outside the window yelling on the phone. He has been trying to reach his wife and children in Mumbai since 7 pm, and is increasingly getting desperate. I have been listening to him for the past 20 minutes, and his tone switches between angry, anxious and hopeless as he talks to his other relatives and friends. His voice breaks often. I don't know what to do - he is obviously alone, but the last thing he needs right now is for a stranger to approach him with "everything will be alright". It breaks my heart.
Very sad. The MumbaiHelpsblog comments section is sort of heartbreaking and strengthening (? is that the right word) at the same time. Hard to read the posted messages, proud of the bloggers who are staying calm and trying to help.
I'm glad to hear Manish is okay.
I've found Bill Roggio's writing at counterterrorism blog to be very informative, as usual. Dawood Ibrahim is the chief suspect at this time? But I don't know how one can know so quickly, is it because of the previous bombings?
Take care everybody, and my prayers and thoughts are with Mumbaikers and with India today.
I don't know what to do - he is obviously alone, but the last thing he needs right now is for a stranger to approach him with "everything will be alright". It breaks my heart.
Ask him is relatives name and the cross reference it with the list on the Mumbai Help Blog. It is something at least. He might not be internet savvy enough to know where to look.
"on a total, total tangent, have you noticed how this is leading the American convention of Month/Date to creep into the discourse of places where the standard is Date/Month."
interesting observation.. eleven-nine just doesn't have the same ring to it.
#99 - well said Abhi!