…because now, you can’t read Blogspot or Typepad-hosted blogs in India. That means no Barmaid, no Abhi, no MD, no Brimful, no Badmash, no Maisnon. Erstwhile Mutineer Manish has more (natch) on Ultrabrown:
For all the talk of Indias freedom and democracy, the Indian government has apparently just censored all of Blogspot and Typepad. For shame. Blogspot- and Typepad-hosted blogs are inaccessible from my Bombay ISP and many others and seem to be blocked at the Airtel Internet backbone in Delhi. Geocities is reportedly blocked as well.[link]
Sabahat Iqbal Ashraf pointed out the utter lameness of this action via the ASATA mailing list:
As I was saying all along, unenlightened Internet policies are not a Pakistani monopoly; the Indian establishment can be just as “efficient” in the matter. First it was only Pakistan blocking most blogs, now it seems the Indian establishment is getting into the act…
Apparently, terrorists are using blogs to communicate, but Ultrabrown notes that Dr Gulshan Rai, Director of the Computer Emergency Response TeamIndia (CERT-IN) feigned cluelessness when asked about this unwelcome development:
Somebody must have blocked some sites. What is your problem?
Awesome.
I can’t improve on Manish’s response to that:
As the worlds back office, for India to blame overzealous techies would hardly be credible. Its not yet clear which blogs the government was targeting, but the tactic of banning Blogspot is nothing less than outright repression mimicking the tactics Pakistan used to shut down discussion of Danish cartoons critical of Islam. India is now in the august company of some of the worlds least free nations…
…because I’m too busy freaking out over the possibility he raises at the end of his post:
These repeated incidents are also a cautionary tale about the dangers of relying on Web apps centralized on a small handful of domains. Whatll you do when your government blocks Gmail?
Shivam Vij has a detailed and worrisome post about his telephonic attempts to figure out what the hell is going on, here. He also has a grim sort of workaround, since not all platforms are censored equally:
Is there a moral of the story? Yes, there is. Shift to your own domain and your own hosting and most of all, to Wordpress. [link]
…or, click your ruby slippers together thrice and chant, “There’s no speech like free, there’s no speech like free, there’s no speech like…
Indian Government has lost their mind. Babu Sahib is clueless.
Can anyone really censor internet? I had read about it on DesiPundit over the weekend.
it's ridiculous - what a silly excuse! i see india is taking a leaf out of the Bush administrations' crack down on civil liberties post 9/11..
Um, "now"?
if there's pressure on the ISP's from 'above' it seems there's not much they can do - or can they?
They really cannot be that clueless. Blogger does not seem to be blocked, but Blogspot is. That means a terrorist, if there's one using blogger to conceive plots, can still publish his information, and anyone with RSS feeds can still read what he is saying anyways.
WTF!!??
This reminds me of the saying in Hindi: Andhe ke haath bateer lagna!
Cannot believe the "HERD" mentality!!...Yes, Indian Govt. might have blocked certain "BLOG" sites...But, have you stopped for a moment and tried to think from the GOVT. perspective?...what if, the Terrorists (to be specific Islamic stripes) did use these Blogs to share & communicate with one another?.....you can say, there are zillion ways to go around such measures...may be. But to jump to conclusions is being same, as one is trying to condemn here. I think...Manish gets "orgasmic" pleasures in pounding India...just 'cuz we blocked some Sites..does not mean, we graduated into the League of least free nations...what an idiotic conclusion!.....India is free in lot more important areas, than US is...or it can think of. So..just 'cuz in US you can walk around with your Boobs and Belly hanging around..does not mean...its free!!!... Get over your snobbish attitude..and try to understand things in real sense.
yeah! what an idiotic conclusion! good thing that isn't what manish said -- he said india's "in the august company" of some of the world's least free nations. there's a difference.
Care to explain a bit more about what you mean by this?
One thing all of the readers can do is run TOR. The Onion Router is software from the EFF that anonymizes web traffic and lets people visit filtered websites. You can download it here and set it up to run on your personal computers.
You can get a copy here: http://tor.eff.org
Speak for yourself, Suraj!
And which email services so you use? What if the Indian Govt. decided to block access to them next under the same ruse, which would seem to be the logical next step, given the scope of this action. Hell, why not just ban the Internet itself. That should take care of the problem for good!
Actually, if they'd blocked certain (criminal) blogs that would be great. Instead they blocked probably over half the blogs in the world.
Our favorite pundit Michelle Malkin is on it.
Looks like India is continuing its proud tradition of appearing to take measures to combat terrorism, but nothing constructive. In 2002, it was a military build-up on the border for an invasion that was never going to happen. And now it is blocking websites, so teenagers will not be able to get pictures of Aishwarya Rai.
wow... i was really surprised to read this!
there have been sooo many terrorist bombings in the past few years and never such a drastic step. maybe because of the global publicity it got? most past attacks have gone unheard of in mainstream media. totally agree with other comments that it's probably part of 'appearing' to be against terrorism... i thought the indian govt would take a smarter approach though... kinda sad!
A lot of us Bombayites living abroad got info on Bombay post-blasts via blogs. MumbaiHelp (on Blogspot) played such a crucial and invaluable role in getting information out, and helping people get in touch with fmaily and friends.
Its really sad that all the positives are being ignored for the rare negatives.
Uhhhhh, I'm no counter-terrorism expert (understatement), but couldn't you learn a valuable thing or two by reading and tracking terrorist websites? I thought I read something along those lines on StrategyPage or something. Better the devil you know......
As soon as I go home I am going to setup a proxy on my server. Anyone in India, care to post a list of blocked blogs? Either email me or post here. This is for non-technical people who can't figure out how to install tor or other such software.
Dreamhost doesn't allow proxies. For now anyone being blocked TorPark is the easiest way to get around the blocks
TERROR - an excuse to clamp down on rights everywhere.
Then again, no one should use Blogger/Blogspot. Wordpress is where it's at.
Michelle Malkin is on it? I'm shocked. Really.
Okay, here's the StrategyPage link.
StrategyPage links are known to be, uh, not that robust so you can search around that site for it too. Basically, the article by Jim Dunnigan says that it's a game of cat and mouse between counterterrorism people and these message boards and websites, and that while you may have to shut down some sites, you can get good information if you are tracking them well. Why don't the Indian authorities encourage tracking of these sites from their own citizens and set up a kind of place where you can send links you think might be dangerous or talking about an upcoming terrorist event? Do such things already exist? Or is that just asking for trouble?
For arguments sake...could it be that the Indian Govt is trying to curb any anti-muslim hatred from being spread around in the cyberspace. We all saw some of the comments/reactions by some of the members here in SM, you can only imagine what the mumbai locals might be bloggin/spreading. I agree that this was a wrong approach, but it could just be knee jerk reaction from an official( atleast i hope it is)
Terrorism is a bitch, i think the stupidest fact is that anyone who wants to access the entire web in india still can. Thanks to the beauty of virtual networking, you can sit on the internet in mumbai as if you were in nyc...i do this all the time for work...and also to have multiple hands on the same cash table when playing online poker...
i doubt this is going to do anything to deter terrorism, just punish creative expression...
Boingboing's defeat censorware page is also handy.
The first thing I would do as a terrorist is to outline all my plans on a blog and send instructions to my aides. This is indeed a masterstroke by the Indian government to spot this clever ploy used by "islamic stripes" (pardon me if this sounds ignorant, but stripes???) and put an end to it.
If the ministry of communications has given a list of *.blogspot addresses to be blocked, and assuming they know enough about the ones they are concerned... wouldnt it be easier for them to contact Google itself and get those blogspot sites removed, and also get their web logs?
It seems wierd that Govt decides to ban whole domains, and then they try to catch ppl using them. I think the ministry of communication has a serious communication crisis!
Suyog
I'm in India on holiday for three weeks. I noticed that I couldn't read two of my regular blogs- one on typepad (brad delong), the other, oddly, hosted on the TIME site (andrew sullivan). But if I use a VPN it's ok. VPN is the ticket, screw the Indian government. They'll never be able to keep websites off-limits for too long
while i'm as disturbed as you (I share my personal pix and journeys with friens and family in india via flickr and blogspot), i'll urge patience.
Sit back and do a cost-benefit analysis on this situation - and tell me what you would do?
Faced with the same challenge in the West, the authorities might conduct a risk assessment, establish a monitoring mechanism, implement a phased transition, engage the private sector, etc. A minuscule % of the general population is tech-savvy, and mostly in the private sector, at that. The west outsources to India, paying top $. The Wipros of the world would tell the govt to take a long walk if the govt came to them with the same work effort paid off in indian rupiahs. Ergo, India has neither the resources to investigate the root causes for risk with due diligence, nor the means to apply a controlled choke.
I dont like it any more than you do - but tell me - as a % of the indian population - how many do you think use or care about blogs? - based on connectivity, power availability, air conditioning, recreational time availability, the % would be miniscule. So reality check guys.
In brief - Indians dont have the time or the means or the patience or the need to tiptoe around this.
BTW - rediffiland is very good. Do check it out.
I would like to thank Suraj for his delightfully funny satire. I was feeling down all day, but that post cheered me up immensely. Thank you, thank you, thank you for that great laugh.
Number Six, I'm with you, but this might be a building opportunity rather than a time for snark :)
hairy_d, I sympathize with your point of view in some sense (India does have limited resources) but I still wonder if there isn't more to be had by tracking open sites and mining them for information than blocking all of them? Tech savvy types: am I completely off base here?
that's exactly it.... that's been the whole debate with the bush admnistration's manipulation of 9/11 using fear tactics to trick the public into pushing their private agendas... the hype hides the real motives. if a terrorist organization wants to plant an attack, they can do it despite the so-called security measures that are being taken... seriously, the terrorists are not that dumb!!! and it's not like most of the security measures are a huge secret, the administration is covering their ass to prevent finger pointing in case of future attacks and to justify their agenda.
this was the G8 statement made in st petersburg re mumbai blasts:
first off, where were the outrage and the condolences during the many terrorist attacks in the last 10 years in india, where far more than 200 people have died?! why now? and we know what 'legitimate' means, like dropping bombs in civilian lands in afghanistan and invading Iraq instead of searching for Bin Ladin. justice may not come pretty, but there have been so many miscalculations, so much misjudgement and deceit in the past few years, i absolutely cannot trust those words! it would be nice if this were true but it's BS... which next political move are they trying to justify and paving the way for now?..sorry this was a vent-fest... it is really irking me!
In response to MD in #29.
The challenge is not in pulling the technical lever - it is in putting together the organization and the processes to support the lever pulling.
The issue at hand is that there is a central body in charge of security management. There are very few people who know what to do. They see blog usage tantamount to "timepass" by idlers or by terrorists, with little tangible societal benefit. The most logical path is to enforce a timeout.
The only recourse for the public is to use their vote to yank the chains, but this is hardly the dominant issue on most voters' minds - not when it's summer in India and the price of gas going skyhigh.
QED
o! btw - in case some non SM'er is popping in via the links - i'd rather not be referred to as "you indians" - i'm canadian but have work intersts in both US, india.
Contrast the indian reaction to the Matrix launched by Dept of Homeland Security, a big-lardassed boondoggle if there was one. What would you do if you had limited resources and had to take an action to mitigate citizen risk?
Suraj,
The freedom to walk "around with my boobs and belly hanging out" is really important to me (so I can show off my man-cans). So are MANY other freedoms in American society and I feel much freer here than I ever felt in India. So, you go stick it up your Suraj.
To all you South Indians, Gujus, Sindhis, Bengalis and other 'Indian Castes' whose ethnic group is not part of the army and security of the country. HOW DARE YOU COMMENT ON WHAT SHOULD BE DONE!!
PUNJABIS, RAJPUTS, SIKHS, MARATHAS AND THE OTHER FEW CASTES WHO MAKE UP THE ARMY HAVE THE FIRST AND ONLY SAY.
GUJUS AND SINDHIS: GO BACK TO YOUR MOTEL BUSINESS
SOUTH INDIANS: GO BACK TO DEVELOPING SOFTWARE
BENGALIS: GO BACK TO DOING PAINTING/ARTWORK
peace out and keep it real!
fair enough, fair enough.... :)
"To all you South Indians, Gujus, Sindhis, Bengalis and other 'Indian Castes' whose ethnic group is not part of the army and security of the country. "
ali g, i suggest you go back and re-read some of the names of people in the army who are part and parcel of defending the country and who have died for it. what an ignorant comment from someone who only seems to deal in crude stereotypes.
Ali G,
ROFL, I think you are a troll.. :-)
The "martial races" theory was developed by the Brits (as usual) for maintaining their rule. There is no merit to that.. Right now, the Indian govt's policy is to have a balanced representation of all the districts in the country..
You forgot "writing", "directing", "arguing", "being Communists"...etc. If you're going to insult me, kindly be accurate about it.
careful, there, hairy_d, you're asking people to think seriously about security issues and the difficult task of keeping people safe.......
"BENGALIS: GO BACK TO DOING PAINTING/ARTWORK"
ROTFL! :-)
How about adding - "BENGALIS: GO BACK TO WRITING NOVELS, COMING UP WITH PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL VIEWPOINTS OF THIS WORLD, PROTESTING AGAINST HEGEMONISTIC TENDENCIES OF USA ETC. ETC." I can go on and on.
On a serious note, there are enough Bongs in the Indian Defence forces for Bongs to not worry about their contribution to India.
Regards,
What most people don't understand is that the internet is not a truck, it's a series of tubes... the faster you accept that fact, the better off we'll all be.
MD - I'm sorry I didnt follow you. Pls elaborate.
I cant help but think about this in such terms. A lot of my day to day work is to make things happen - sell the problem, get handshakes, scope work effort, get the ball moving - and then get out of the way.
I just think that if the indian govt came to me with something like this - can you do this ? - frig. it'll take me a couple of weeks just to know who all are the stakeholders in this and coordinate meetings on their calendars.
now - if i was the director managing the cert or whatever - i would think, "i know this is wrong, but this is the least bad of all the options open to me. at least it will buy me some time and my countrymen will be safe for a few more weeks." And I'll pull the plug. Believe me the 20 some page report that was produced sounds like it was done by some person who burnt the midnight oil - given the recency of the mumbai blasts - and it was WIthin the department.
ok - that reminds me. back to work. hugs and kisses.
OMG that was so funny. But I think you might be actually serious. Pray tell us what kind are you?
oh, I was being sarcastic, sorry. My initial reaction was that this was bad for free speech reasons, but also because you might be losing some valuable intelligence by shutting off all these websites. My sarcasms points more the idea that issues of security are difficult...so, in a way, I was saying your posts made me think about this issue a little differently. Maybe it is much harder for Indian security/counterterrorism types to track jihadi websites because of lack of resources or whatever, so closing down blogs seems like the obvious answer.
This may get more blogplay than the actual bombing itself.
If we don't take our freedoms seriously, we won't have them for long.
Look, one can come up with all kinds of scenarious which make this look like a reasonable approach. But to me it looks like the height of stupidity. Are they seriously doing this to shut down communications amongst terrorist groups? As other commentators have pointed out, this seems like a highly implausible scenario (if you were a terrorist, would you communicate via a blog?!). More likely, they came across a couple of armchair Jihadist blowhards and decided to shut down the whole thing. The technical knowledge of the parties responsible, I would guess, is not that high, and the thought of blocking just the select sites probably never occurred to anyone.
By doing this they destroy goodwill amongst many opinion-makers within India who are involved in blogging. And the blanket censorship approach is an embarrassment to India worldwide, as many opinion-makers in other parts of the "free" world start connecting India to China for the wrong reasons.
Oh, and my last comment seemed garbled and as if I was agreeing with the decision - basically, I was trying to 'channel' the thinking of those who made this decision. I still think, on balance, that it's not a good idea.
"do some proper research, you wanker."
sorry, don't know anything about software. but unlike you i do have enough grey matter to actually undertake research, and my research has taught me to recognize those afflicted with maha-moron syndrome. i suggest you check into a clinic soon:)
Okay, last comment. Sorry, but I am fascinated by this topic. Here's another StragegyPage link about information warfare on the net. The gist of this article is the more on the net to track, the better.
Whose God, please ignore that fool (his off-topic comment directed at you has been deleted).
Not on my blog post, it shouldn't be. You know I love it when you grace my virtual tea party. :)
I suspect it is some goof up / miscommunication. A few years back Indian govt banned all access to yahoogroups. Their intention was to just ban a couple of groups..
Hi, yes, I'm in India. Is there an engineer in the house? Anyone? Anyone? Venkatasubramaniam?
How DARE you stereotype my polysyllabically-surnamed people! How dare you!
I'm not at all computer savvy (it took me about 3 months to figure out how to use the fancy quote thing on this blog). But how exactly does one blog an entire domain from an entire country? Does it require all the servers in India to collectively block the sites, how does it work? Also, if people are planning terrorist attacks via the web, don't you want to keep the open exchange. I figure it would be that much easier to keep tabs on the dangerous groups out there. I'd also like to point out that, despite all the flaws, this is another illustration of how good we have it Stateside.
This is a case of some inept babu trying to please his bosses rather than thought out Indian policy. Probably does not matter to most Indians as someone previously said. A tiny percentage in India has access to internet. And most deshis are probably checking out cute models on the net rather than blogging. Still, it creates a negative impression of India outside its borders. In any event, even if some "evil doers" were communicating via a blog, its better to keep it open and visible to monitor its usage and maybe try to investigate those individuals rather than shutting its access and loosing this opportunity.
Oh, I get even worse.
Threaten the backbones with overseas Internet peering arrangements and make them filter out the domains at the router level.
Ok here is the link
It was in 2003..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/24/india_blocks_yahoo_groups/
"Madna Museum of Modern Art." I might have to invest in that one. Genius work, Agastya.
Sabahat Iqbal Ashraf, who was quoted above, puts out the following call on the ASATA mailing list:
Anyone know of any?
Use http://www.pkblogs.com to access your blogs hosted by blogspot.
This is so stupid. The internet is far too dynamic for shotgun censorship to have any effect in disrupting communications.
DAMMIT! Gah Gah Gah. . . . ./quoth the girl who sticks to her blogspot blog out of loyalty. .. .
Believe me, this long-loyal Typepadder feels your pain. :\
So very English. Thank you, Mr Kobayashi. I laud you.
Paradoxically enough, it even goes far enough to bolster our South-Asian identity as opposed to dividing ourselves along nationalistic lines. We are two nations plagued by malfunctioning governments but dealing with very similar issues. I am sure the average Pakistani does not really want to blow people up in Mumbai. And it is pleasant that we can use their proxies to protect free speech.
I was reading the World of Warcraft boards the other day, and I got really scared. I couldn't help wondering whether those kids discussing strategies for their next Blackwing Lair raid were actually 3l33+ LeT operatives exchanging coded messages about their plot to r0>
I was reading the World of Warcraft boards the other day, and I got really scared. I couldn't help wondering whether those kids discussing strategies for their next Blackwing Lair raid were actually 3l33+ LeT operatives exchanging coded messages about their plot to r0x0r the New Delhi Metro and pwn hundreds of innocent Indian n00bz. Then I had to laugh at myself. As any educated person knows... blogging is the only safe way for terrorists to transmit secret information over the Internet...
(apologies for the double... apparently one my leetspeak characters caused the first post to be truncated)
This is an absolutely crazy response by the Indian government!! This is almost a step closer to the Great Firewall of China! I hope we dont go there.
Hopefully the government gets a clue by this online outrage that has been caused by this ridiculous step, and rethink the matter!!
Luckily my blog on desihub - http://mihir.desihub.com/blog still works in India.
Is there a petition created for this yet? Any other constructive way to fight this?
-Mihir
MD says
Thank you MD for your comment. I appreciate that we have a conversation.
I'll point out counterarguments to the reasons i've heard on why the SM'ers think this is Baa-ad.
1. (MD) This tramples on free speech.
Counterpoint: But what is free speech, hmmm? Surely society requests and, in some cases, asserts restraint on speech in order to protect the few from the few. Movie ratings are an example. Cigarette advertisements are another. The ban on protests within a specific distance from military funerals is another. Can we burn the flag (D.C.)? Can we piss on war memorials (Ottawa)? In an incendiary environment like in India, can we allow some fool to publish inflammatory comments on religious relations, or 'how to make a bomb' or 'how to do the next terrorist strike'? Given that the printed word is highly revered in India and the general population is not cynical as with out West, it may actually be prudent to exercise content control over an unregulated medium. At first blush, a bureaucrat may think this is a good path of action.
2. (Amardeep) This impacts opinion makers.
Counterpoint 1: Some data points. India's internet users are 38M (as per iamai survey). About 30% of US population read blogs (a google search). the ban affects about 70% of the blogging population. Net net - the impact of the ban is about 0.7% of India. Two scenarios. There are a fair number of 'opinion makers' in the affected population. This is in itself disturbing, in that the reins of the country are in the hands of a tiny population whose wants and priorities are detached from 99.7% of the population. The second scenario is that the 0.7% does not have any significant opinion makers. Well, then, no point bothering.
Counterpoint 2: Finally, even were your concerns true Amardeep, rediffiland is superior to blogspot at least, and a significant desi community still has access to content that is truly relevant to India (most indian bloggers on blogspot seem to have a westward ho outlook, IMO).
3. (newbie) inept babu trying to please his bosses
Counterpoint: this babu took action soon after the mumbai blasts. I wouldnt call him/her inept. (S)He seemed to take charge and take responsibility. Past experiences with management suggest that this person's heart is in the right place and he/she was decisive with some amount of research put into the decision. That's a good thing.
4. (newbie) it creates a negative impression of India outside its borders.
Counterpoint: Isnt there rabindrasangeet - "Ekla chaalo re". :-) If the decision was made because it was believed to be the best decision in the circumstances, the rest of the world can take a hike.
5. (Amardeep) this is technically futile.
Counterpoint: It seems to have foiled the casual surfer so it's putting up some (though modest) roadblocks on the terror highway.
6. (MD) blocking may lose us the opportunity to gain insights into terror tactics.
Counterpoint: See my earlier argument on the work effort needed to implement data mining - multiply effort by 3x for freeform text mining.
You forgot "writing", "directing", "arguing",
Hey don't forget the physics and economics.
/grumpily, since she has plenty of relatives in the Indian armed forces, and this is just turning into an awful, crummy, veddy veddy bad, no good news day.
List of some of the blocked sites: Hindutva ones, surprisingly.
hinduunity.org
hinduhumanrights.org
princesskimberley.com
bloodspot.com
dalitstan.org
clickatell.com
blogspot.com
geocities.com
typepad.com
Some of the URLs are clearly wrong (expired domains redirecting to businesses).
I guess they are blocking hate spreading sites.
How widespread is internet use in India?
From Financial Times:
Blogging, particularly on fanatic and religious websites, had surged soon after the Mumbai bomb blasts on July 11. Over 25% of Indias 38 million internet users are active bloggers. Currently, there are over 120 million bloggers worldwide and multiplying at the rate of about 10 million per month. The number is expected to cross 160 million in 2006.
I do not know the source and veracity of the data.
From my epxeprience:
I cannot tell how widespread is blogging. However, I think basic use of internet is more than one would guess. Along Delhi-Roorkee road route, there are innumerable internet cafes, computer literacy short courses shops along the streets of Meerut, Muzaffarnagar. I internet surfing for Aishwarya Rai's/ Mallika Sherawat's (she is originally from Meerut) picture is quite common even amidst power outages 5 times a day.
Even, Madarassas are supposed to have basic computer courses. I know someone who is involved in developing physics and math courses in Urdu on internet, known as Taleem.
They have not blocked the blogger or blogspot! It seems an act of major stupidity by some ISPs!!
Manish, at least something good happened by blocking these hate spreading websites. Hinduunity.org and likes hardly represent Hindutva. If Hindutva were to be banned, rss.org is the right place to start. However, a real culprit got caught here - dalitstan.org
What the hell is princesskimberley.com? Anyway, some reasons, of varying levels of credibilty, I can think of that a virulent Hindutva site might have been blocked out:
1. There's a theory floating about that bajrang dal was responsible for the bombings.
2. The government is trying to prevent hate organizing right now in the aftermath of the bombings.
3. The government is taking advantage of the panic to suppress some sites that it had wanted to anyway.
I wonder, also, if there weren't specific typepad or blogger sites that they wanted to block and one or more idiots accidentally sent a request to the ISPs to block all of them (kind of like the difference between blocking one page on espn.com and blocking the whole site).
never mind...apparently "princess kimberley" is a muslim-hating rightwing blogger of some kind. see comments on this wonderful site
(not safe for sensitive people who don't hate muslims).
Holy mother of God!
I don't care if the Hindutva sites are the ones blocked....
I don't care how widespread internet use is in India... and I thought we had moved past the time when certain trappings of modern society could be considered luxuries beyond the scope of your fundamental rights and the state could regulate your access to them...
I used to read about the middle east, China and Pakistan with a twinge of sadness... never thought this would happen here. But then living in Mumbai you tend to have such illusions... illusions of security(the shattering of which started in 1992 and has only now reached climax) and the stupid stupid illusion that this place is free-er than George Bush's 'land of the free'... well, had to wake up sometime.
Today in the evening when I mourn for the dead I have another thing to feel sick to the core and angry about.
"When the Government is caustically intrusive,
The people will be morally deficient."
-- from Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching, as translated in The Tao of War (Ralph D Sawyer)
So is our Government laying the foundation for us to become morally deficient? I'd say that is screwed-up war strategy if at all it is that...
Lal Salaam
The government is afraid
especially of the large number
of pro-naxal bloggers on the
Indian blogoshpere who have time and
again highlighted government atrocities
which have gone unreported in the mainstream media.
Visit my blog to know why.
NAXAL REVOLUTION
Regards
Stalingam
This is just a pathetic attempt by the govt to show that they're doing something. Free speech takes another knock in India. Our f**king govts never learn. SIGH!!!
In response to Anuj's comment, if the govt really feels that some of the sites you're happy to see closed down are promoting hate speech, why not have it done through a transparent court order? Something doesn't smell right. And however much you find RSS or other Hindutva sites repulsive, they all should enjoy protection under the free speech umbrella.
I hear from a very reliable source that the govt is thinking of banning BEST buses and the mumbai locals, as terrorists are hitching rides on them, and even planting bombs.
Stalingam...
as someone once said
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Infact I more than disapprove of what you say... your stupid naxal revolution has done little for the people. The last attack killed 26 people, most I'm sure were non combatants.
But I don't like the fact that my government will curb your right to express your opinions.(opinions mind you... they should do all they can to stop you from plotting bombings and killings... the opposite of a police state is not anarchy)
ps: I'd like to read what you have to say but you are on blogspot;)
For all the brilliant advisors on government payroll, this is the best option that they could come up with. They should have coordinated this move with blogspot because that would have been more efficient and less likely to cause a stir amongst the public. It's sad that they went for the brute force method to circumvent their terrorism communication issue. This is one of the stupidest things I've seen our government do..
I am waiting for an official statement from the government on this issue, and I hope this is big mistake, for the sake of the government.
i can't access espnstar.com. don't tell me gov had banned that too.
Blocking blogs is not so much about policing lifestyle as it is about intentional curbing of the freedom of expression. To me, it casts serious doubts over the credibility of the Government's efforts to fight terrorism, if this is the approach towards finding solutions. Moreover, it smacks of distrust on the intelligence of the masses that make up the all-important "votebanks", if not (more respectably!) the "citizens".
right on Starship Enterprise, and obviously they know the blogosphere is influential and they probably thought this is a good way to stamp out their power. question is now what is everyone going to do about it!
You mean a theory floating in madressahs..
Some twenty sites are blocked in India and people started making nonsense by saying blah.. blah.. blah.., comparing India with China, with countries of Middle-East and even with North Korea too. This is as kike as most of the stupid breaking-news come every hour on news channel containing no valuable content.
As working as the fifth pillar of Indian Democracy, we should be more cautious while reacting on the decision of the government. Comparing Indian democracy with autocratic countries is an extreme step. We should completely avoid these kinds of blogging. People are in a hurry to react and taking no time to literally abusing the step taken by the government, which yet not be released officially.
On the other hand, the government should take cautious steps to block some websites, and it should release the proofs or basis of blocking. In spite of giving directives to ISPs, they might ask Google to do that.
Anyway, I am requesting the respected bloggers to stop criticizing the government move so harshly and try to find out the major cause behind that. We should provide some suggestive measures in front of the government to have an eye before taking such kind of step.
Pratyush, looks like you are a bit dense to understand what people are aggrieved about. Do you work for the DoT or something? Please spare everyone your drivel.
more blogs are writing about their frustration of India blocking blogs. Check this one out:
http://www.currybear.com/nucleus/
The blog makes a good point; are we going to ban every means of communication if the terrorists get a strong hold of it?
There are obviously differences in the relative amount of "autocracy" and "deprivation" (these tend to be multifaceted--like democracy for one social class, but not for others, as has been a trend in U.S. history) induced by governments of various stripes, but all governments tend to do something along those lines at one point. Which is basically to say, as a counterpoint to what you're saying, to ignore that this is happening in India would be foolhardy.
If true, this is indeed terrible news. It is a huge victory for the terrorists and I just hope the government will quickly reverse itself.
anuj,
'However, a real culprit got caught here - dalitstan.org..'
check indian jails... you'd find the rosters of inmates as satisfying..
The disadvantage of stifling a healthy debating atmosphere is evident. So is the autocratic intent behind this.
The Secretary for Telecom hangs up on the NYT. Rather ironic if you think about it.
MH observations:
1. The govt. itself asked for 20 odd sites to be banned. I'm not sure if you know this, but a very active hate campaign is being run over SMS and some blogs, asking for violence against certain communities they say are responsible for the blasts. Immediately after a terrorist attack of this scale, it would be irresponsible on the govt's part to allow this to blow up.
2. Most ISPs just went ahead and blocked the IP addresses corresponding to these sites. Unfortunately, all blogs on blogspot resolve to the same IP. This is at worst incompetence on the part of the ISPs, and possibly a communication gap b/w them and the DoT. I'm sure that the person who issued those orders would've assumed that it was possible to block only specific blogs - especially since NIC dial-up (a govt. run ISP which most civil servants use) is capable of blocking specific subdomains.
3. This does NOT put India in the same league as China, Pakistan, North Korea. I'm sure its painful not to be able to read your favourite blogs - but it's stupid to react in this way. There ARE some ISPs in india that have blocked only those specific sites - its a far better idea to change your ISP than rant against the govt.
I feel that the government should be more cautious while taking steps against media. and if it is necessary for the national security, it is ok. But at the same time, government should come forward with the cause of the acts.
Most reports say 22 pages of sites.
Yes, they should have filtered by domain instead of IP. IP multihoming makes the ban too broad.
Unclear, press reports seem to indicate they asked all of Blogspot and Typepad to be banned. And the gov't has been totally unresponsive to bloggers and reporters since.
Only inasmuch as there isn't a single government-controlled chokepoint firewall. In terms of tactics this is exactly what Pakistan did in March.
Not easy. Most ISPs use int'l backbones like Bharti Airtel which have blocked these sites as well.
Update: CERT-IN is now blaming ISPs for screwing up the block, but the only people who know for sure are the DOT, and they're not talking.
Wow. I can't believe they did this.
Uh right... that explains why they blocked mainly hindu-fascist sites. (Though I guess I don't see much difference between naxals and bajarang dal other than they occupy different ends of the political spectrum, both are violent populists)
I'm pretty certain this will be resolved in the next couple of weeks.
The Indian government is very very often bumptious, high handed and incompetent.
They (at least at the Central level and at least since the Mrs. Gandhi era) are rarefully wilfully opposed to individual freedoms.
Don't support this. The Indian govt. IT department cannot separate legitimate blogs from ones that terrorists use. I'm an American, and our govt. reviews and sometimes shuts down sites that may pose risks to national security.
Blogs are not that important, if this is what it takes to indentify and prevent further attacks, let them do it.
Indians are behaving utterly dispicable in this. Has anyone here even read some of the extremist things that Muslims write on the internet? You'd be shocked.
"Blogs are not that important, if this is what it takes to indentify and prevent further attacks, let them do it."
oh puh-leese.
Sachin on July 18, 2006 09:51 AM · Direct link
more blogs are writing about their frustration of India blocking blogs. Check this one out:
http://www.currybear.com/nucleus/
The blog makes a good point; are we going to ban every means of communication if the terrorists get a strong hold of it?
Sachin, here is my repsonse to that. The fact is, the internet is one of the most effective ways that terrorists communicate. Those who watch U.S. news know how many times our govt. gets tipped off or finds out about terror groups by scavaging the 'net. By the way Sepia staff, I love ur site, don't take it personally what I write towards the end.
My repsonse on currybear:
"I bet none of the idiots protesting against the ban ever did read what some Muslims write on the internet.
If they did, they wouldn't react this way. The blog will be temporary. You can get back writing about the progress of your ingrown toe nails another day.
In the meantime, if this is what it takes for the Indian government to DO THEIR JOB. Let them do it.
I'm an American, born and raised, and I would pretty much accept anything our government would do if it would help capture those responsible for the WTC attacks.
This is not a game. This is a War on Terror. It will be uncomfortable at times, but DEAL WITH IT.
I understand some say that legitimate blogspots are being banned. My response to this is to have some faith in the Indian government. The Indian government does not have a history of censoring internet sites (although they should... look up some of the things that are written in dalitstan.org, you can view CACHED copies using a Google search). If the Indian government has not gotten involved in the past, it means that this time something genuinely must be there for them to do this.
Give them time, and be patient. But most of all, be supportive.
I can't believe the backlash over a FCKING blogspot. They are so mundane and trivial for the most part."
Sonia: Oh puhleese?
Wow, thats pretty compelling. Do you have the ability to write more than a one liner?
Sometimes, that is all that is needed.
Communis Rixatrix: Another moronic response...
nearly 200 PEOPLE DEAD. NO ONE CAUGHT. These are the facts. The months following the WTC attack, I was proud of being American more than ever before. I was proud of the way people conducted themselves. I was proud of our spirit, and I was 100% completely supportive of our government. It was a time for civilians and the government to work together against a common threat. I was even supportive at that time of the Bush administration going into Afghanistan -- afterall, Osama Bin Laden was said to be there, and he was the prime suspect. As I have stated before, I would have pretty much accepted anything we did at that time. Its been a few days since the bomb blast and people are complaining of not being able to blog? 200 PEOPLE ARE DEAD. Does that have ANY value? If an attack this large happened in Pakistan, and the government acted similarily, Pakistanis would not be complaining. Indians value Indian life cheaper than any other people that I know. They are some of the most selfish, unpatriotic and divisive people on the planet. Just look at our government officials there. Criminal, corrupt, selfish, without regard for human life or dignity... Sonia and Communis Rixatrix, presuming your'e Indians, you should consider running for office.
Please, someone tell me that this guy is attempting parody.
DT2004:
Actually Pakistan DID block blogspot blogs in March, and no, people did not take it lightly. In fact some of them started up an alternative site where you could still view blogspot blogs even from places where it was banned. This intrepid effort on their part is coming in very handy for some of us who are in India and still want to view blogspot blogs. So much gratitude to them.
Vivek, so Pakistanis took it with as much hostility towards their government as Indians are doing? Yeah, lets pay our gratitude to them. They harbor and incite the suspected bombers of the train, but hey, at least they got a workaround the ban. Pakistanis are far more patriotic and devot than Indians/Hindus are.
Evil Abhi: don't get your panties in a bunch, looks like they're lifting the ban! Now you can get back to blogging on your menial life.
DT2004:
Of course, you're right. I'd forgotten in my glee at having discovered a way around the ban that all Pakistanis are terrorist-harboring India-haters. Thanks for the reality check. Thanks also for the "Indians/Hindus" equation; I'd almost forgotten in reading about Mumbai Muslims organizing to donate blood to victims of the blasts that Indian Muslim is an oxymoron. Once again, thank you.
Yes, they should have filtered by domain instead of IP. IP multihoming makes the ban too broad.
So that makes it the ISPs fault, not the govt's. While it's not easy to block only selected sites sharing the same IP, it definetely is possible - some ISPs do it (by basically analyzing connections going out on the HTTP port, reading the Host: field on them, and dropping those that correspond to the banned host). If anyone's to be blamed for stupidity here, its the ISPs.
I'm sure that the person who issued those orders would've assumed that it was possible to block only specific blogs
As you posted later, press reporters seemed to have jumped to conclusions. Aren't we all surprised ?
This does NOT put India in the same league as China, Pakistan, North Korea.
Firstly, the pakistani govt. did infact want to block all blogs. Secondly, the criteria that the govt. of India uses to decide what matter is objectionable (or atleast the criteria one can infer from the above list) is significantly different from those used by the authorities in China, etc.
Not easy. Most ISPs use int'l backbones like Bharti Airtel which have blocked these sites as well.
As I said, there are *some* ISPs which are able to block selectively. And if you aren't able to find such an ISP in your area, at least rant against the technical incompetence of the MTNL, et. al., not against the govt.
Indian Government has lost their mind. Babu Sahib is clueless.
Unfortunately, a lot of people in the blogosphere are just as prone to jump to conclusions and make arbitrary statements as the govt. bureaucrats they seem to think they're so much smarter than. One can pretty much say the same thing about the media as well.
And this just in: things will be fixed. Also note that "most reports" now seem to be saying that the list had 20 odd sites, not 22 pages !
Ummm, it's fairly obvious to everyone who is wearing the panties here (not that there is anything wrong with wearing panties).
Vivek:
How many Pakistanis of various ethnic groups and religions do you know? I work with 40 of them. Punjabis, Sindhis, Agha Khani's, Sunni's, Parsis. A good majority of Pakistani's have very strong views when it comes to a)Kashmir and b)Islam.
India is perhaps the only country that is democratic enough to show an adversary's television channel within its borders, PTV. Have you watched that before? It makes it look like Indian soldiers are doing nothing in Kashmir other than raping, looting, and murdering innocent Kashmiris. This is what has been shown to Pakistanis through their highly regulated media, and this is what their impressions are based upon.
I have several Muslim friends, Indian, and Pakistani. They're just like me. But if ONE topic comes up, religion, an amazing thing starts to happen. Right before my eyes, their mind shuts. It becomes narrow, and shades of gray disappear, their logic is left to nothing more than black and white. The black is text, and the white is the page, of the Quran. All Muslims, no. Most of them, yes. Anything that, in their mind, is the slightest taint on Islam, and all bets are off, all of a sudden they cannot rationalize, and they become extremely, extremly defensive. Do I think that all Pakistanis hate Indians (particularly Hindus), no. But do they respect them either, by and large, no. Were you aware of how many Hindu temples*, from Pakistan, to Malaysia, and probably everywhere in between and beyond, are or have been demolished? How many Hindus attacked Muslims for these actions? ZERO. And then when the Babri Masjid was demolished (which was wrong to do), when a Danish cartoonist draws cartoons on Mohammed, how many people were killed, how much damage occurred?
Its great to be diplomatic, and peace loving, but its also important to know the facts. And refer to the other thread, on the bans being lifted. I have provided a link and copied text from the dalitstan.org website, no, they didn't just crack a couple jokes, they were propagating a Hindu free, Muslim nation, carved out of India.
*http://www.dawn.com/2006/05/28/nat23.htm
Sorry, above post was by me.
Thats probably more of a political stunt. I think part of the reason why the Kashmir issue is not resolved yet is because for the politicians on both sides of the border, its a massive vote bank!
Kunjan: i don't know, you could be right. i don't give politicians the benefit of the doubt. extremely corrupt and selfish. most of them should be taken out. But why show reporting that is so anti-india? i've seen segments of it, it is propaganda. its stupid for the Indian govt. to allow this.
Or not wearing panties.
Clarification: In the sense of not wearing them per se. I didn't mean that it's obvious which of the commenters on SM is going commando at this particular point in time.
Enough digression from me. Carry on.
I am totally confused by the decision of DoT. There are so many questions are arising in my minds. What is the intention of Indian government behind the decision of blocking blog websites? Do they really want to serve the nation's security or something else?
Help me to understand >>> http://www.merinews.com/newsPortal/JSP/catFull.jsp?articleID=123283&catID=2&category=Nation
Crap, have the spam bots figured out the complex SM code for posting?! It looks like they have! Curses!
DT2004:
I was hugely ashamed with the American response after 9/11. We turned over all sorts of civil rights and let fear dominate our thinking, and our politics, here in America. Anyway, you don't need to use the American response to 9/11 to justify idiotic policies in India done in the name of "national security."
I think we all recognize that banning entire domains or IP ranges is a silly way to combat terrorism. The apologists on this post are nuts; they're even more ready to bend over for the government than Americans were, post-9/11. And look how well all that worked out for America, huh? My advice? Get a backbone...an open Internet backbone.
(drum hit)
F5, baby. A K K A's on duty. ;)
DT2004 -
"I have several Muslim friends, Indian, and Pakistani. They're just like me. But if ONE topic comes up, religion, an amazing thing starts to happen. Right before my eyes, their mind shuts. It becomes narrow, and shades of gray disappear, their logic is left to nothing more than black and white. The black is text, and the white is the page, of the Quran. All Muslims, no. Most of them, yes. Anything that, in their mind, is the slightest taint on Islam, and all bets are off, all of a sudden they cannot rationalize, and they become extremely, extremly defensive."
I have had similar experiences with an overwheming majority of my Muslim friends, who see conspiracy in everything that is wrong with their religion today.
Can't we just all get along?