I presume Asian = South Asian in this case, probably Pakistani. Seems like these incidents are common across the pond. Never heard of this happening in Canada. Why?

are you implying that by definition mixing races = lack of harmony? (ie., "preposterous")

I am not from Britain but have travelled there a few times and I will tell you that (despite all it's problems) I love the fact that their they dont seperate out all the nationalities....that we are all equally asians....not indians, pakis, bengalis or whatever....

I am not from Britain but have travelled there a few times and I will tell you that (despite all it's problems) I love the fact that their they dont seperate out all the nationalities....that we are all equally asians....not indians, pakis, bengalis or whatever....

well, if you are not from britain, perhaps you'll never feel the irritation that i know some non-pakistani "asians" feel when they hear about "asians rioting" or "asian social pathologies" when they actually are referring mostly to muslim asians, and especially 2nd gen pakistani youth. solidarity is great from afar, but more difficult when you have to live it day to day.

Everyone seems to be making a big deal out of this. It looks to me like gang violence, and one predominantly Asian and the other white. Boy got killed. He should not have been fighting in the first place. End of story.

Given this is the BBC and they arrive to racial tension late, it looks to me like they're overcompensating this time by asking around whether it will blow into something bigger and statements like "community leaders have asked for calm". Frankly no one listens to "community leaders" regarding these things. They didn't during the Birmingham riots and they won't be now. But I doubt it will blow up, though there may be retaliatory gang violence.

Wait, this happened in Britain and the gangs were armed with baseball bats? That just isn't cricket!

I'm from London, and frankly, this stuff, as someone else mentioned seems predominantly confined to Muslim and Pakistani youth. We all now get lumped into the "Asians" category. Frankly, I'm tired of no shades of gray in the UK - there should be distinctions in reportage between Pakistanis, Muslims, Gujarati, Bengalis, etc.

On a well more upbeat note, I'm coming to the Western US for a month tomorrow! Anyone fancy a road trip or showing me San Francisco? We could play 'Twister' at Fisherman's Wharf. NO? NO? YA!

what i find really irritating, is the fact that British Press and Media continue to bunch Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indians together in one group called "Asian".

Most of the racial tensions in the Northern Towns in Britain between the Browns and Whites are with the Pakistani youth who are un-educated, jobless and situated in the same towns as similar un-educated, jobless whites!

Why can't the media separate out an Indian or a Pakistani or Bangladeshi? -- or does it just serve their purpose?

"public housing estate after a pitched battle between whites and Asians armed with knives and baseball bats could possibly have had a racial component"

hmm your discourse sounds like you've sort of made up your mind that it's racist. p.s. they're called council estates.

yeah sk it suits the media to lump people into one group, but you know what, they ain't the only ones obviously..! 'whites' - well isn't that lumping a whole bunch of people into one category?

preposterous? " Still, deploying the idea of “a lot of mixed races” “living together in harmony” seems quite a preposterous move at this time". ha. Well for the most part everyone is. that isn't newsworthy isn't - so you probably wouldn't blog about it, neither would the media be able to concoct some screaming headlines. Nope, its incidents that make the headlines. oh right, if in london two people of a different race get into a fight - it's supposed to be 'race-related'. Maybe, but not automatically. why should it be? only if you view everything through race-tinted glasses, which unfortunately it seems most people have a permanent prescription for.

"I presume Asian = South Asian in this case, probably Pakistani. Seems like these incidents are common across the pond. Never heard of this happening in Canada. Why?"

PC,

That is because unlike Britain, where 'Asian' is used to lump all peoples from India, Pakistan , Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal, Indians in Canada are referred to as Indo-Canadians.

Strangely, the US State Department uses the term 'Asian' for all the Eastern Asian nationalities and 'South Asian' for the equivalent British 'Asian'.

I would rather use the actual terms such as Indians, Nepalese etc. instead of 'Asian' or 'South Asian' and refer to that region of Asia as the Indian Sub-continent!

However, I do like Sonia's idea of not using 'Whites' as a generic term and start to popularise the use of terms like 'group of Catholic Christians' etc to segregate the 'white' cultual categories.

Britain has become a very complex society in its tribal affinities and racial make up, and this is reflected in the nature of racial violence and crime. To get a sense of this, read this article from the Guardian:

Knives rule the playgrounds as inter-racial violence soars

A group of Somali boys were sitting outside a cafe on Stratford Road in Birmingham talking about their experience of school. Modqtar, now 17, was beaten up twice a day and picked on for having poor English. The perpetrators were often Asian gangs.

Five years after his family fled Somalia, the teenager was petrified about travelling around his adopted homeland. 'I have to get two buses here, and two buses back. That is four chances of getting beaten up every day. They shout at us to go back to where we came from. But they are not from here either.'

His friend Mustafa nodded sagely, adding: 'We get attacked by everyone in school - Asian gangs, white gangs, black Jamaicans. Everyone wants to fight us.'

I can think of at least a few cases in the last two or three years of racist murders of white men carried out by blacks/Asians in the UK. Things are very complex in 2006.

that's a pretty nice article you got there RedSnapper ...
however, what do you think will gain more press mileage, a white man killing an black/asian kid or vice versa ..

Interestingly, Australians think of Asians as those from China/South East Asia.

I think everyone should be called "dudes" and "duderinos", thereby solving this global problem entirely.

To all those under the mis-conception that it's only Pakistanis fighting in Britain, you may want to learn more about the regular and vicious gang fights between Tamils in London all the time.

irritation that i know some non-pakistani "asians" feel when they hear about "asians rioting" or "asian social pathologies" when they actually are referring mostly to muslim asians, and especially 2nd gen pakistani youth. solidarity is great from afar, but more difficult when you have to live it day to day

I'm from London, and frankly, this stuff, as someone else mentioned seems predominantly confined to Muslim and Pakistani youth

Most of the racial tensions in the Northern Towns in Britain between the Browns and Whites are with the Pakistani youth who are un-educated, jobless and situated in the same towns as similar un-educated, jobless whites

What about the Hindu and Sikh kids who beat up on White kids in Londonstani? I understand it is fiction. However is it merely an opportunist writer steering clear of perpetuating stereotypes by portraying reality and who is fearful of getting grief from the Muslim Council of Britain?

Also is there an insightful Britisher here who can shed some light on the notorious no-go ( for Whites ) areas in predominantly poor Muslim neighborhoods? Are they for real?

Yes, there are no go areas for whites in the north of England. I’ve not seen the same agression here in london, not even in the areas of east london with high banglaseshi population. There are areas in Bradford, Oldham, Bolton and Blackburn that I know of personally. I would never ever let my white girlfriend walk into these areas.

There is anti Hindu sentiment in these areas as well. It was never documented in the press but I have friends in Bradford who told me that the 2nd/3rd generation Pakistani youths who were rioting targeted Hindu and Sikh business premises. I read the other day that there are close to 9,000 Muslim prisoners in the UK out of a total prison population of around 70,000. I would suspect that the south asian/pakistani muslim prison population will soon overtake the african and carabien prison population. Not a statisic to be proud of.

sorry for the spelling mistakes above. must remember to spell check before posting.

I would rather use the actual terms such as Indians, Nepalese etc. instead of 'Asian' or 'South Asian' and refer to that region of Asia as the Indian Sub-continent!

"indian" is an "actual term" but "South Asian" isn't? India is a state; South Asia is a region. Both of them are largely useful to people who are neither Indian nor South Asian (as opposed to language, ethnic, or other identifiers).

The blanket label 'Asian' bestowed upon these parasites is a result of the bbc and their pandering towards the muslim community. When will people realize that islam and muslim are not terms that indicate race, but rather denote religion and ideology. Unfortunately for you Sikhs, Hindus, Jains, Christians, who happen to be of Asian Indian stock, you're hated on both sides by white Anglos and kafir-hating Pakistani/Bangladeshi Muslims. Don't be fooled, this isn't a matter of the media not being acquainted or ignorant about the marked variances between non-muslim and muslim inhabitants of South Asia, it's a calculated tactic to deflect blame from the true culprits, fanatical muslim youths.

Also, it's not fair for honest and hardworking Muslims of Pakistani and Bangladeshi descent to receive hatred because of the actions of a portion of their community, but that is why it's even more crucial and incumbent upon the leaders of the South Asian Muslim diaspora in the UK to engage with the authorities and root out this scourge within their ranks rather than issue meaningless condemnations after incidents occur.

I comment very occasionally on SM as "sk".
I just saw that commenter #8 has also used the name "sk"; that wasn't me.

Now back to catching up with all the other posts...

I work with a Brit expatriate lady, and she tells me that Brits know the difference between Indians and Pakistanis. She said it in a manner that lead me to believe she did not think highly of the latter. Its wrong to label anyone, but just wanted to share her perspective. She's anglo brit, blonde hair, blue eyes. pure european. she thinks she can tell the difference by looks as well. To some degree its possible, but then again, not really.

Just wanted to point out as a Northerner that racial tensions are not in anyway limited to the North of England. May I remind you that the biggest BNP stonghold in the UK is currently Barking and Dagenham in the South. According to police and Commission for Racial Equality statistics there are proportionally more racist attacks in London than anywhere else in the country. Poverty is indeed the key issue behind these disturbances and poverty is endemic on council estates throughout the UK, although adminttedly probably worse in the north because of a lack of investment over many years. It would be foolish for self-satisfied southerners to be too complacent on the matter particularly in view of the increasingly extreme gap between rich and poor in the South East and London areas.

Hi Chatters ;) I can tell you everything about Preston. I'm expert my friend. Ok this boy got murdered was Indian gujerati. There is not too many pakistanis or bangladeshis in this town. Big majority is gujerati either muslim or hindu. Kichdi can be smelled in most neighbourhoods ;)

This boy, he had big funeral, thousands people gone to see from all over the cuntry. Commitee leaders want to play down racism because otherwise the harmony of the town will disturb like feeding poisoned fish to them. Yes there is racism in Preston so much like there is racism all over the world. But we need to overcome it by maturity and diplomacy not street fighting. The pen is mightier than the sword. Next time please don't fight, think twice, its just another day to pass till you'll be in paradise...

I was born and bred in Preston, I also used to work for the local newspaper...my husband was a journalist for it about 20 years ago. I was shocked by the reporting. I am very sorry for the grief of this young mans family regardless of his true nature...let's make that plain. However, I read three days of eulogy about this young man which painted him as a pillar of the Muslim community. A bright boy, someone who engaged in social activities to help youths in his community.....much beloved son (quite right too) and etc. etc. etc.
I then went to work and heard that he was in fact a member of a gang and that drugs were involved. I have no further comment on that because it was gossip..gossip from people living directly in the area but gossip all the same. I admit to feeling cynical now but my mind is open to changing.
The trial of the three men accused of killing this man is in April. I think it is going to be very VERY interesting to hear what comes out of this trial. Ive already been given the 'street' version of what happened and why.....not saying it would justify murder if it was true but I am very interested to see if the 'real' description of this young man matches what the papers say or the white people living on Callon Estate and about what truly happened that night and what led up to it. It will be interesting to see what part the press and police have played in ensuring the truth didn't initially become public knowledge IF the local's version of events proves to be nearer the mark. Racism is indeed alive and well..not just in Preston but all over the world..because it is a natural instinct.

my causin did not murder him i know he never its just all mix up

Further to my previous comments on this site I just wanted to follow up with what the prosecutions opening speech was about the victim...

Can't remember the exact words but his barrister admitted that his dead client was high on drink and drugs, had attacked the boys who were charged with his death with either a bottle or a baseball bat and chased them home. It came to light later in the trial that the victim has also attacked someone on a pushbike some time before and was well known to the police. Why the reporting of this lad as if he was some kind of pillar of the community? I believe the brother has been found guilty of a serious offence since the trial as well. Makes you wonder.