there’s no desi equivalent of Itunes

A friend of mine in NYC is working on this exact thing.

Amardeep I sincerely don't download music not so much for the piracy issue which I don't really think about as much but it seems wrong to take music I didn't pay for. But let me clarify. I will share music I've bought with friends and vice versa. I will either ask my cousins from India to send music or get whatever I can in Jackson Heights. But I don't go out of my way to get music I didn't really pay for unless it's someone I know who paid for it and it comes straight from a CD they bought. I'm very uncomfortable downloading from sources I don't trust or strangers so I just don't. I would absolutely spend a buck a song if there was an iTunes version for desi music if it allowed me to sample the music. As it is I stick only my favorite songs from all the albums I own on my iPod so I would do the same with desi music.

I don't illegally download desi music. However, I rarely buy CDs. I usually ask others who have bought the latest CDs (friends, family, etc.) to burn me a copy, which in turn I download onto my iPod.

And I might spend $1.00 a song, thought my "system" is much cheaper.

Thanks for starting us off, JoaT.

By the way, I wanted to be clear to everyone that I'm not judging anyone -- I'm just curious to know more about readers' habits, and wanted to open up a space for people to talk about it.

Manish, tell your friend to hurry up! ;-)

Artists steal from artists, sure. India steals from Pakistan and vice versa. You forgot one more reason: most desi music, be it on the streets of Karachi, Bombay, Chicago or New York, is pirated anyway. The recording companies and generally cd manufacturers steal from eachother.

most desi music, be it on the streets of Karachi, Bombay, Chicago or New York, is pirated anyway.

Is that really true?

One more thing: my consumption of music far surpasses my ability to afford all of it. I just like music too much to let that stop me.

most desi music, be it on the streets of Karachi, Bombay, Chicago or New York, is pirated anyway. The recording companies and generally cd manufacturers steal from eachother.

Yes -- The only way to tell a pirate from an original sometmes is to look for the 'hologram' seal. SaReGaMa CDs at least have a hologram that for whatever reason pirates don't try and copy. At the store I used to go to in New Jersey, the shopkeeper would peer at each CD I brought to the counter. If it didn't have the seal, it was $5 (i.e., because it's pirated). If it did, it was $7 or $10.

I haven't heard much about recording companies and cd manufacturers stealing from each other.

I've used Itunes, they do have a few desi songs. I was surprised to see that that a few Tamil songs from the 70s were on Itunes.
I have no problem paying to download songs and I wish Raaga.com had that option. The post on Omkara's music got me all excited and I spent ages listening to music on Raaga, but none of it was available on Itunes.

Here are my thoughts on illegal downloading, regardless of genre. If you're rich and famous, someone like Rahman or U2, you've already got a gagillion dollars and I really don't care if downloading costs you another gagillion. If you're a nobody like me, who has music on line, then the illegal downloading doesn't matter because it's more important to have people hear my music than earn the $200 or so that I've lost. The people who really get hurt are those somewhere in between. These are the artists that have a strong local or regional following and might sell 2-10,000 cds. These people are hurt because the downloading does represent a significant amount of money and they generally don't have a gagillion dollars.

most desi music, be it on the streets of Karachi, Bombay, Chicago or New York, is pirated anyway.

At the store I used to go to in New Jersey, the shopkeeper would peer at each CD I brought to the counter. If it didn't have the seal, it was $5 (i.e., because it's pirated). If it did, it was $7 or $10.

So the $5 copy of Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna I bought in Jackson Heights last weekend was probably pirated, huh?

Yes -- The only way to tell a pirate from an original sometmes is to look for the 'hologram' seal. SaReGaMa CDs at least have a hologram that for whatever reason pirates don't try and copy.

I've never looked for these on Indian CDs because I didn't know they existed, but will now. Not that it would really stop me from buying the other stuff if it's only available in that form but I feel a little in control of my choices.

I've seen Indian stores in Chicago, NY and LA all carry pirated stuff.

Yes, but the stores are occasionally raided by the police, on the insistence of Indian distributors like Eros. The manager of one place I talked to awhile ago mentioned that he had begun to be very careful since some of his friends' stores had been raided recently.

The recording industry has long bilked the common man from his dollar by selling overpriced CDs. An opportunity has presented itself to stick it to them, and I say we all go for it. People may say this logic is unsound, this person clearly didn't spend $18.99 for a Vanilla Ice CD with one good song on it, and 15 tracks that say "yo yo word to yo moms and the sticky d fibber.,heeeel yeeaa"

They can keep suing companies like Napster, Kazaa, etc.. but more will just come up in their place. I believe all songs should be downloaded and exchanged freely at will.

Yes, but the stores are occasionally raided by the police, on the insistence of Indian distributors like Eros. The manager of one place I talked to awhile ago mentioned that he had begun to be very careful since some of his friends' stores had been raided recently.

besides, there's always the net.

in related news, I just bought a 320gb drive. :D

In jersey city, most of the indian movie rental stores were raided starting of this year. They took all the VHS, tapes and CDs, basically leaving them with an empty room.

to get music online sites like kazaa(which no longer is going to be free after this week's trial came to end with Kazaa paying music companies like $100 million) Limewire, DC++ are there.

i just order my cds whenever someone goes to India or London(for good punjabi music). But its even worse over there with all the Vcds and whatnot

One more thing: my consumption of music far surpasses my ability to afford all of it. I just like music too much to let that stop me.

Seriously. I'm too broke to buy it all. And no, I am not spending all that $ on shoes, damn it.

On another note... There was an Indian "mela" in the Curry Hill area a few weeks back, and this dude had a huge booth with a massive sound system, and it seemed like 85% of what he was selling at 2-for-$10 (Water ?!?!) was pirated. This was not a "dismantle your cardboard table when you see the cops" situation, either.

I'll be honest - if it's an artist/group that's more independent, I'll make sure to buy their CD, even if I get the songs initially in other forms. However, if it's Hindi music, I really don't give a crap. I can go to a store and buy the CD for $5 (which will be pirated), I can ask a friend for the songs, or I can download them online for free.

I went on a trip to India and anytime I asked someone to take me CD shopping, I wound up at shady places where I knew there was a guy sitting in the back just burning CD's all day. It's horrible.

while on the topic
how about ringtones for cell phones? now that we can share them by using bluetooth. Why would i pay $1.99 for a tone that my friend has already. Some phone companies do "lock" their ringtones so that you cant transfer them but kids still find a way around it.
Now if somebody can tell me how I can get this song to set as my ringtone, it'll be really helpful. I hate reading manuals

"This was not a "dismantle your cardboard table when you see the cops" situation, either."

or fold your rug for that matter

Would you spend $1.00 a song if a desi version of Itunes were available?

I would. Thanks Amardeep.

In light of some of the plots that they use, for Bollywood to complain about piracy is absurd :)

On a more serious note, I'd like to see a breakdown of how much "artists" are actually getting paid for this music before I take claims about artists' rights seriously. I would like to see a Bollywood equivalent of this stunning piece from the Baffler about how much artists actually make. In fact, I'd like to see an updated piece on the American music industry.

-s

well 1 buck for a song is not too big a deal for us out here ... but if you sell a song for 50 rs. in india, would you ever buy it ? i think not ! its just geography and economics combined ... for 50 bux, you would get an mp3 having arnd songs from 20-25 movies ... which one would be more viable ? anyways the recording companies charge a premium .. with only one or 2 good tracks on an entire album ! gone are those days when you would get albums like bombay or roja ... speaking of good ones, checking out omkara and not disappointing at all ... guess its time to buy/borrow a cd :D

For those of you that have Verizon & like music on your cell phones, VCAST has some Indian artists. I didn't recognize a grand majority of stuff on there, but I did notice that they had the soundtrack to Kabhie Alvida Na Kehna on there. They are charging $1.99 per song.

I don't listen to much post-98 desi stuff but here are my habits in general:

I download music rabidly, according to Canadian law not necessarily illegally. As yet. I don't buy or use CDs. In Dubai in the 90s, CDs were terribly expensive. Plus, less popular artists sold for higher amounts for some strange reason. I remember wanting to buy a Portishead CD and being asked to pay around $32 Canadian for it! Instead I took to using and cutting tapes with tunes offa the radio and friends. There were also more pirated tapes being sold at that time than CDs, the selection wasn't great for non-Desi stuff but at least they were cheap.

In 99 I started using Napster, then came Audiogalaxy, now I use soulseek to download all my music. If I love an as-yet obscure artist, after having listened to a downloaded album, then I will buy the album from them directly. I do not make money off downloading music. I do not sell the music I've collected. I do make it heard though. And the tune I told my friend about the other day and he told his friend about who told her friend who is a DJ and who ultimately paid $20 for the record and played it at a venue and everyone wondered who that was and they found out and some went to buy the CD while others dished money to see the act live? Yea, that tune would've gone nowhere fast without free downloading.

i meant mp3 cd with songs from 20-25 movies

I've bought desi music CDs from back home, downloaded a lot illegally from Kazaa, but also swap MP3s and songs recorded from CDs with my sibs and cousins. Equal-opportunity, I am. I probably wouldn't pay $1 per download for a song unless I reaaaaallly wanted it, because I know I can always get the CD for Rs. 200 or so at home!

If I love an as-yet obscure artist, after having listened to a downloaded album, then I will buy the album from them directly. I do not make money off downloading music. I do not sell the music I've collected. I do make it heard though. And the tune I told my friend about the other day and he told his friend about who told her friend who is a DJ and who ultimately paid $20 for the record and played it at a venue and everyone wondered who that was and they found out and some went to buy the CD while others dished money to see the act live? Yea, that tune would've gone nowhere fast without free downloading.

Essactly.

As an aside, I have a few invites for desitorrents.com. Anyone who'd like one, email me.

Now back to the debate. You were saying...

an article about recent music industry changes

Well, downloading music from the net is one activity that most of us are guilty of.

Indian music companies will have to adapt themselves to this trend and lower their production costs. An ITUNES store in India will have limited success. Yes, there will be people who will buy the music from the store but a great many Indians are simply distrustful of transactions over the net.

Masale,

i want an invite to desitorrents

thank you

I've used cooltoad.com to download a ton of desi music. they have a lot of variety -- not only hindi/bollywood stuff, but also a good amount of other regional music. sometimes the quality of mp3s is pretty hit or miss, but hey, it's free [and likely illegal. oh well.]

Jeet, nice article.

This paragraph caught my eye:

Music by subscription: Despite Apple's contention that consumers want to download songs rather than play music online, Fader and Babin expect most consumers will ultimately subscribe to catalogs of music. These songs would then be "streamed" to various devices such as a personal computer, networked music player or cell phone. Babin, who subscribes to four different music services, says he is surprised the subscription model hasn't gained more traction, but acknowledges that both technological and cultural issues remain.

This might actually work better than an Indian Itunes, especially if they can sort out the technological issues (3G access via cell phone -- versions of 'VCast' -- might turn out to be the ticket).

As for piracy to legal consumption ratio..I would say 70-30. But I have stopped downloading or buying music. I have Zeppelin, Beatles, Floyd, The Who, Purple, Doors and Rehman with me..not really into new Hindi or English music :)

I was just checking Raaga.com, now you can download songs there. Not everything is available for download, but a large collection is and its $.99 from here and Rs.12 from India. Now if I can find a proxy server in India, I will be all set ;-).

It is more complicated than this as far as indian music industry is concerned. I would talk about the telugu movie industry which makes quite some money (surprisingly comparable to hindi movie industry as a whole (all movies put together)).

The reason why the telugu movie industry cracks down on the movie shops but not for music is that the music industry itself pirates and releases to the market these pirated cds and cuts through the tax hazzle. If the music is a major hit the first phase would be legal in which most of music buyers buy the music. In the second phase, they release the pirated stuff into market, on this the production cost will be lot less and they dont have to pay any tax and all the money goes into the pocket and they manage some how to get this back to white some thing i didnt understand well.

Yes in india there is a lot of crackdown on telugu movie piracy but not on telugu music. Here in US one of the distributors was worried about movie piracy but not music piracy even though he owned the rights !

Folks, please don't post links to filesharing sites.

>>>>> This paragraph caught my eye:

Music by subscription: Despite Apple's contention that consumers want to download songs rather than play music online, Fader and Babin expect most consumers will ultimately subscribe to catalogs of music. These songs would then be "streamed" to various devices such as a personal computer, networked music player or cell phone. Babin, who subscribes to four different music services, says he is surprised the subscription model hasn't gained more traction, but acknowledges that both technological and cultural issues remain.

Brilliant! Absolutely true. I think 10 years down the line..the dangling carrot and the parameter of success for every thing is going to be the mobile phone. Everything is converging onto that one single device.

I take that back. You can only download tamil songs for now. The come with DRM and can be burned twice. I do not see any info on other languages, but I am sure that they are working on it.

there’s no desi equivalent of Itunes

A friend of mine in NYC is working on this exact thing.

Thats the whole point! If people can download music leagally, and if the process is easier then pirating it, then people will go for it. Hopefully the music will be DRM free, or atleast a flexible DRM.

Kunjan:

Hopefully the music will be DRM free, or atleast a flexible DRM

Not at raaga Raaga

Why is that in NYC, which is supposed to care deeply about piracy and international property rights and the scourge of knockoffs, etc.--why is that in the bowels of the subway station below the CitiGroup Building on 51st and Lex, heavily patrolled by police since it's been declared a prime terrorism target, you can buy pirated DVDs for $5 from Ecuadoran and Guatemalan women who spread their wares on those lovely Andean alpaca wool blankets?

Not at raaga Raaga

6. Can I burn songs to a CD? Yes. You can burn a songs to a CD for upto two times using Windows Media Player 10. For more information click here.

1. I don't use Windows. 2. My both CDs got scratched. Now what? Like if I am going to burn 2 CDs in my whole life!

I'm old school and shop at Shrimati's and Bombay Music in Berkeley. Shrimati's is very proud of verifying authenticity.

how about ringtones for cell phones?

OK is it just me or are there others out there that have no problem picking one of the 40 ringtones in your phone and living with it? I find some of the song ringtones people have seriously irritating at times.

why is that in the bowels of the subway station below the CitiGroup Building on 51st and Lex, heavily patrolled by police since it's been declared a prime terrorism target, you can buy pirated DVDs for $5 from Ecuadoran and Guatemalan women who spread their wares on those lovely Andean alpaca wool blankets?

This will sound lame to you but it's gods honest truth. It's different task forces. The ones for patrol and vigilance are usually handled by Manhattan north which only does surveillance and the ones that raid and take stuff away like in Chinatown for example are guys that work with the local FBI offices and are generally handled by Manhattan South. The two don't cross into each others turf. Same with drug busts, completely different agencies headed up differently and they generally work with ATF and FBI as well. All albeit under NYPD.

OK is it just me or are there others out there that have no problem picking one of the 40 ringtones in your phone and living with it? I find some of the song ringtones people have seriously irritating at times

my phone is always on vibrate as I am almost deaf and no ringtone can get my attention, I was just raising an issue. Song ringtones are mostly annoying, the worse i've heard was the latest movie Nacho Libre and it went something like "naaaaaaaaaaachoooooooooo" in Jack Blacks voice. Yup, the reason why i am almost deaf.

Itunes is constantly adding to their desi tunes selection, but my main gripe is that it's hard to sift through their interface to find them because they don't have a "bollywood" category; half of the albums wind up in the soundtrack category and the other half in world music. (and yes, I have emailed them about this)

A lot of artists (Alms for Shanti, Apache Indian) have just bypassed Itunes altogether and make their own material available for purchase and/or download, directly at their own websites. I'd gladly cough up a buck or 2 for JOSH's remix of "Promiscuous Girl" if they made it available through their website or another channel.

In general, I won't patronize any establishment that doesn't clearly indicate that all of their product (CD, DVD) is "official". I made the mistake ONCE of buying a DVD in Jackson Hts at some shady little shop-- 45 minutes of the damn movie was missing, and all the songs were sped up. And that's what I get for thinking I got a great deal with a $10 DVD...

I'm more than happy to pay for my music, especially as it's what put food on my table for so many years, but a lot of the problem is that music isn't seen as something with value, in our culture. It seems to be perceived as something like oxygen-- it's just out there and thus should be free. Until we give our artists respect, they will continue to be fleeced in the marketplace.

no love for The 'Bay? http://www.crimsonbay.com/ ?

Song ringtones are mostly annoying, the worse i've heard was the latest movie Nacho Libre and it went something like "naaaaaaaaaaachoooooooooo" in Jack Blacks voice.

The best is Turtle's rington on Entourage: it's that "booty booty booty booty rockin everywhere" song :)

The best is Turtle's rington on Entourage: it's that "booty booty booty booty rockin everywhere" song :)

That was hilariousss!
Entourage is the bomb. Drama and turtle crack me up, "crossing-swords"

Most of the posts seem to be saying "that's the way it is, or it is done everywhere",come on, that does not make it right. It doesn't matter whether Rahman has gazillions taking something that is not yours is called stealing. Now, I am as cheap as the next guy and would prefer to get everything for free, but somehow watching pirated movies or listening to "stolen" music just doesn't work for me.

I hope someone comes up with a legit downloading site for desi music, hopefully less than a dollar.

I sometimes download songs from newsgroups, etc. to check out a soundtrack. If I don't like it, usually it goes in the recycle bin. If I do, I head to the local desi grocery and pick up a copy of the CD. I also swap CDs with friends, and my collection is probably half and half. I have also purchased a fair number of songs (usually older) via iTunes, and I found a site where I downloaded the entire Boys soundtrack (Tamil) for about $4.50. Can't remember what site that was, and of course it was cheaper in India (Rs. 12 a song sounds about right.)

I'm excited about raaga.com offering songs for download! The newest ones are the hardest to find.

Second, so much of the music is kind of crappy and derivative to begin with (Hindi film producers often borrow bass-lines and samples from western or Arabic pop songs)

This statement is unfair, what about the artists that steal from Bollywood movies?(eg. Black Eyed Peas) This is nothing new, sir.

I believe that even the movie producers in Hindi/Telugu/Tamil treat the songs as just another promotional material for the movie. There is nothing ethically wrong in listening to pirated movie songs because of the chance that we might pay good $s for watching the movie eventually.

A Tamil friend of mine has got a little enclave of piracy in his mom's house (he's only 15). He literally has a few Terabytes (1000 Gigs) of space set aside for his downloads, which include PS2/X-box 360 games, music, movies and other programs to further his illegal enterprises. I always go to him for new programs and better ways to get around certain obstacles. Though, for the most part, I just use Limewire for music and Azureus for movies and cartoons. Bittorrent files are also pretty good for import or hard-to-find CDs. And now, with those links to Vidalia and Torpark you guys provided for the blog-banning crisis, there even more venues of piracy open to poor college kids like me. =D

But no... I'm not really a fan of Desi music or movies.

One pretty good source for legal bollywood music is Yahoo music. (it is drm'ed and in wma format, though) It has a very good collection of old bollywood music (50's, 60's & 70's), and pretty much no recent stuff. It also has a decent collection of Indian classical (hindustani and carnatic) music. I pay $6.99 a month and get unlimited streaming. Thats probably the best 7 bucks i spend a month.

Highly recommended

Why is that in NYC, which is supposed to care deeply about piracy and international property rights and the scourge of knockoffs, etc.--why is that in the bowels of the subway station below the CitiGroup Building on 51st and Lex, heavily patrolled by police since it's been declared a prime terrorism target, you can buy pirated DVDs for $5 from Ecuadoran and Guatemalan women who spread their wares on those lovely Andean alpaca wool blankets?

Because it's not that big a deal? Because people need to make a living? Because organize crime syndicates have a place in New York's economy? Because NYC, home of knock off guccis and rolexes and everything else one could possibly want but not afford, is really different from what you think it is.

Entourage is amazing, like someone said (think it was NYT), its the guy version of Sex and the City.

Entourage is the bomb. Drama and turtle crack me up, "crossing-swords"

OMG I was laughing for like half an hour after that episode. It still cracks me up.

Also see these earlier SM posts: Desi iTunes on CrimsonBay, and Desi MovieLink.

This statement is unfair, what about the artists that steal from Bollywood movies?(eg. Black Eyed Peas) This is nothing new, sir.

jigga please. the flow of "inspiration" is heavily one-way.

Manish, thanks -- I'd missed Vinod's post on Crimson Bay. But it looks like Masala Downloads now points to something called "Camcorder Share." I guess the DRM download concept didn't take off?

BWcinema.com seems to be doing pretty well. Their approach is streaming video, either $3.99 for 3 days or $10 a month. It's not quite DVD quality, but most of the folks who are renting the VHS tapes don't really care that much about having perfect quality video.

Second, so much of the music is kind of crappy and derivative to begin with (Hindi film producers often borrow bass-lines and samples from western or Arabic pop songs)

Do not forget a number of Hindi songs lifted wholesale from South Indian movies, esp. Tamil.

My 2 cents...
I guess I have a problem with downloading anything "current;"
the artists have a right to make a living and to profit from
their work. So, I have no problem with downloading stuff from the
'50's, 60's and even the 70's and 80's.

My friend Santosh calls me "North America's greatest gora A.R. Rahman fan." And I have everything that has been released of his in the States, courtesy of Amazon.com But when I was in Chennai last month, I went nuts at a CD store and snapped up everything I could get my hands on by him that I can't find here in the States.
(+ the soundtracks to "Faana," "Krrish" (eh, 2 songs worth taking notice of) and my fav playback singer, K.K.)

Most soundtracks average 30 minutes of music... at $12 to $15 a pop (and space for storage), I compile 70 minute CD's of all of my favorite songs, and give the CD's to my University Library.

My copy of the "Boys" soundtrack came to me courtesy of a friend in Boston.

There is one song that I'm having trouble tracking down... Bunita's "Ankhiyan" from "Where's the Party, Yaar." Smashits recording is lousy, so its not worth downloading.

I guess the point is, when you're desperate for something, you'll stop at nothing to get it!

the wife has mastered the art of downloading dvds, inserting subtitles, and making copies with the original labels (yes, there are sites for this). Unfortunately I dont watch (most of) them but the kids seem to know the latest re the various woods. These sites are run by teenagers (it seems) and they are really have a highly tuned ethical sense and the bit-torrent protocol seems to be handy for this (upload determines download). Once every often they go on their fund raising drives for server space. Otherwise these sites wouldnt have had the lasting power they do. I usually subscribe to these shady places for live sporting events (aka cricket)when the season comes around.

oh, and my copy of "Omkara" arrived today. Yippie!

emusic.com has a TONNE of Indian songs(tamil, hindi, telugu, kannada) classical, movies and religious in drm free mp3 format. They charge you $10/month for 40 songs yours to keep for perpetuity. They occasionally give you a promo 100 special for free for the first month. All the music is legit and in fantastic quality.

You need to browse in the International/Reggae category.

For years I avoided downloading illegal music. On the few occasions I did, I bought the CDs of albums that I liked. I do feel for artists who may be robbed of their genuine earnings, but I have absolutely no respect for the industry wallahs. They rid playlists on radio and get away with just a slap on the wrist, yet have no compunctions in putting kids in jail because they have downloaded illegally. My main complaint though is, the kind of "music" that they promote. How does Shakira get so much airplay? Seems like some of the people on the charts cannot play an instrument to save their lives. Of course they have producers to put everything together, and the label to get their marketing muscle behind it. And these are the people I'm supposed to listen to? I'm all for buying Nine Inch Nails or Floyd, but no one should pay for some of the other junk :)

Sorry about the tangential rant.

I guess I have a problem with downloading anything "current;" the artists have a right to make a living and to profit from their work. So, I have no problem with downloading stuff from the '50's, 60's and even the 70's and 80's.

I think it's interesting that like me a lot of people have limits and levels of justification on "downloading" or "sharing" but at the end of the day it's still not ethical is it? :-)

How does Shakira get so much airplay? Seems like some of the people on the charts cannot play an instrument to save their lives.

Airplay is based on requests, same with VH1 or MTV (does MTV still play music?) And people who sing and are popular don't really have to know how to play anything really if you think about it.

#70: They rid playlists - I meant rig, of course.

I hear you JOAT, and I agree they don't have to, but I wonder how many good artists fall by the wayside just because some exec thought about how marketable the whole package was. That's what it has boiled down to for the most part, I think. At least when I look at songs on the charts, that's the impression I get. There are exceptions of course. In the Indian context, playback singers don't really do anything else unless they're involved in the composition (as in Shankar of Shankar/Ehsaan/Loy or even Rehman), but everyone knows who's doing the hard work behind the scenes.

I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia, so I hope Manish's friend hurries up with the desi version (and that I'll be able to download the songs here in Oz. It was a long frustrating wait for itunes to arrive here!). I normally spend around $15-$18 every 2-3 months downloading songs from itunes.

I spend $1.69 (AUD) per song at itunes Australia...

If you use P2P on the other hand,...

Not advocating anything, just saying there's other ways :)

who buys hindi music? This is atleast true for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.

for the really good punjabi mixes, there are tons of them circulating on the net for free or i guess illegally.

i agree with jatin. a lot of underdog djs put really good remixes up on filesharing sites and i doubt they ever get marketed on cds or other legal venues. punjabi mixes are very common, however, and often times you can find them in the store. i think that dl-ing is most convenient when you want remixes of rarer songs, like marathi pop or unusual hip-hop/rap mixes (not the typical d&b, techno, or ska). hell, it took me a year to finally find the dhagala lagli kara mix i wanted and it only happened after i gave up on the desi music stores in cerritos and edison and resorted to a filesharing program!

with respect to the financial hit that the music industry takes from illegal DL-ing, musicians are more affected than record companies since the money they make is directly proportional to how much they sell. distributors, however, seem to be resilient in that sense because they have many other sources to compensate for losses. i think that musicians/legal filesharing companies should make a deal with corporations or universities (like my college does) where the company gets a corporate subscription to, say, napster and employees and students can download for free while affiliated with them (or for a heavily subsidized fee). besides, it's all about good business and i'm sure madonna would prefer the gouda from thousands of DLs by users from a large company versus the sporadic "moral" DLs from individuals who actually pay full price for napster. cuz we all know paying $15/month for napster is just plain extra when there are hardly that many songs-worth to DL in one month.

c'mon people, music is a form of communication. as a musician myself, i believe it should be shared and made accessible to all tiers of society. throughout history, music has been what unites humanity, and there have always been ways that music has been kept from the broke people and that's just wrong. we are the world, we are the people and we were meant to live for so much more. *you down wit D-L-ing, yeah you kno' me...* now i ain't sayin' i'm a golddigga', but can't you snap ya' fingahz, to the beat y'all without having the law on your a$$?

For those looking for legal desi-mp3 downloads, thought I'd mention emusic.com They seem to have a fairly decent collection of restored HMV oldies; I (legally) downloaded a few Mohd Rafi songs in those free fifty downloads.

But otherwise... raaga.com / musicindiaonline.com , although I don't mind occassionally trekking down to Little India (ah, the pleasures of South East Asia) to survey the contemporary filmi scene.

But as a general point, I think morality is rather overblown when it comes to copyright infringement; personally, the debate between contra-legal downloading and legal buying is that of taste (do you REALLY want to wade through all those irritating IRC/ torrent tracker sites to get your moolah?) and convenience.

I used to download a lot of music when I was younger. I felt quite within my rights as part of the subversive collective to stick it to the man that way. It was also the only way to get access to a lot of music that was just not carried in the usual music stores. There was also a problem with cash flow.

These days I don't download at all. All the music I listen to is from online radio or pandora.com. You can almost always find online any song you want to listen to. This way I don't have to buy a 320 gb hdd. Is what I do less ethical than buying the cd?

Great link Saurav: so many aspiring musicians (including myself at one point) are completely oblivious to how soul-crushing the recording industry can be. They may be the evil-incarnate hellbent on exploiting and repackaging the creativity of doe-eyed college kids with a guitar in their hand and a tune in their head, but they still hold the key to turning that dream into commercial success. The internet easily solves the problem of distribution and promotion that would stifle most independent artists, but even with the advent of the internet and peer to peer filesharing, I'm hard-pressed to name a single band that has become a commercial success and household name without the aid of the recording industry. A friend of mine's band, Thriving Ivory, has been able to garner a comfortable amount of publicity and popularity through their Myspace and support from local radio stations. They've had their single played on continuous rotation and have already opened up for big bands like The Violent Femmes and Counting Crows, but, without a record contract, they're likely to remain a relatively local phenonmen and thousands of dollars in debt.

Here's another interesting read on how much an artist actually makes on the sale of his/her CD:

"Profit margin is also huge concern for an artist at any level, but especially for one just busting into the business. Right now, the typical contract deal for a new artist goes something like this: the artist agrees to a deal where she doesn't even begin to see a profit unless her CD sells at least 500,000 copies. Even then, she will likely earn only about $1 per CD. And if she doesn't sell at least 100,000 CD's often big companies will drop her anyway.

The musician who sells artist-to-fan direct, over the Internet, can earn $7-10 a CD, and can actually make living selling far fewer CD's. Not to mention the fact that SHE maintains control of the distribution of her art."

I don't know how much of what I wrote concerns artists working in India, though I will surmise that musicians the world over see the majority of the profit from their work going into the pockets of others, download or no download.

Two Indian music critic podcasters:

1) Amit Varshneya

2) Radioactive Ray. He is also DJ for a radion station in College Station/ Bryan.

Give them a try. I know both of them in person - coincidently from same place, Roorkee.

I'll be honest - if it's an artist/group that's more independent, I'll make sure to buy their CD, even if I get the songs initially in other forms. However, if it's Hindi music, I really don't give a crap. I can go to a store and buy the CD for $5 (which will be pirated), I can ask a friend for the songs, or I can download them online for free.

Very true. There are so many indie bands like Alms for Shanti, Thermal and a Quarter, Avial, Fossils (just the four on the top of my mind, there are so many many more) that are pure brilliance with some amazing original music. I wouldn't mind paying a decent price (18 bucks a CD, did someone say?) for good music like this. As far as the rest of the tripe that bombay, madras and bangalore put out as filmi music... well, I'd rather save my money for those cool DKNY shoes I saw down at East Village. :D