August 16, 2006
When in doubt, blame your staffNews
[UPDATE: It is easy to donate to Webb if you wish. Give him $20.01 or an amount of your choice w/ an added one cent at the end to mark the donation as coming from the blogosphere. ]
Allen has changed his story in a small but important way. He no longer claims that he made up the word Macaca on the spot, instead he repeated something that he heard his staff say:
… several Allen campaign aides and advisers are telling allies that the word was a made-up, off-the-cuff neologism that these aides occasionally used to refer to tracker S.R. Sidarth well before last Saturday’s videotaped encounter. According to two Republicans who heard the word used, “macaca” was a mash-up of “Mohawk,” referring to Sidarth’s distinctive hair, and “caca,” Spanish slang for excrement, or “shit.”
Said one Republican close to the campaign: “In other words, he was a shit-head, an annoyance.” Allen, according to Republicans, heard members of his traveling entourage and Virginia Republicans use the phrase and picked it up. It was the first word that came to his mind when he spied Sidarth at the weekend’s event, according to Republicans who have been briefed on Allen’s version of the event. [Link]
Allen wants to shift blame because coverage of this story brings up his long history of racial insensitivity / insult towards blacks which could torpedo his chance at the Presidential nomination:
As governor Allen had a stormy relationship with African-American voters in Virginia, many of whom criticized his policies and his embrace of the Confederate flag, which the NAACP condemned as a symbol of racism and hate. As a lawyer, Allen also had a noose hanging from a ficus tree in his office, a decoration critics have charged was racially insensitive, but which Allen has explained as a symbol of his tough stance on law-and-order issues…
In 1995, 1996, and 1997, Allen proclaimed April as Confederate History and Heritage Month and called the Civil War “a four-year struggle for independence and sovereign rights.” The proclamation did not mention slavery and was subsequently repudiated by Allen’s Republican successor, Governor James Gilmore. [Link]Under educational guidelines proposed by Allen’s administration, which were revised after an uproar, students would have been taught that slaves were “settlers…” [Link]
“Stormy relationship” is an understatement. The man is completely obsessed by the confederate flag:
“[a]ccording to his colleagues, classmates, and published reports, Allen has either displayed the [Confederate] flag—on himself, his car, inside his home—or expressed his enthusiastic approval of the emblem from approximately 1967 to 2000.” Allen wore a Confederate flag pin for his high school senior class photo. In high school, college, and law school, Allen adorned his vehicle with a Confederate flag. In college he displayed a Confederate flag in his room. He displayed a Confederate flag in his family’s living room until 1992. [Link]
Given his broader racial outlook, and the fact that he had a French-Tunisian mother, it’s quite possible that he was familiar with the word macaca as a slur. As even one right-wing blog points out in a post defending Allen:
… his claim that he was unaware of the meaning of the term he used, ‘macaca’, is unconvincing given that his mother is of French Tunisian background, in which circles the term is apparently used. [Link]
On the other hand, it’s also possible that he has a racist on his staff. While macaca/macaque isn’t a common ethnic slur in the US, it is used by white supremacists. The two quotes below are taken from a supremacist online forum [via Jeffrey Feldman’s blog, via Manish]:
“FYI - friends of mine who are cops told me years ago that [Rodney] King is “red-flagged” in the system, meaning that if/when he is pulled over, sergeants (superior officers) are to be called to the scene immdiately, or he is to be let go if possilble. All to avoid the appearance of Sir Rodney being picked on. Don’t want another riot you know. And the macaque has taken full advantage of this privilege.”
“Bryant lacked the all-important street credibility, they said, and although the defining characteristics of “street cred” remain unclear, some said Bryant didn’t match up to the appeal of Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady. Lying coward. We all know the only way to gain “street cred” with nigra gutter scum is to be just like them. That’s why that ugly cornrowed thug Iverson has it while the well-tailored macaque-about-town Kobe doesn’t. Keep it real, yo…” [Link]
It’s also quite possible that Allen’s new story is accurate, and he picked the word up from his staff who coined it without any racial animus. None of that, however, gets Allen off the hook for either his “Welcome to America” remark or his long-running love affair with the symbols of the Confederacy.
Related stories from The New Republic: George Allen’s race problem, George Allen’s flag fetish
ennis on August 16, 2006 07:08 PM in News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
¤ Kingsley 2.0 said: Waca-macaca the fuca-macaca? (N-gokkamacaca)
Great shirt!!
And yes, I'm sure that's exactly how they got "macaca."
Grasping at straws at a whole new level. I do not buy this crap - as you say, Allen's mother is French-Tunisian, and this term "macaca" is a well-established slur referring to the local darkies by the colonialists.
Keep flailing your arms about Georgie - we'll see you in November and beyond...douchebag.
Thank goodness that our SR Sidarth was not black - what terms would Georgie have spewed THEN?
well you have to give them points for creativity. and what would all those "real americans in virginia" think about the senatorial staff creating epithets out of spanish instead of good old-fashioned english? i mean, why not "mo-shit" or just plain "shithead", if the aides were using it occasionally amongst themselves only to refer to sidarth? or are all republican aides well versed in spanish?
The jury may still be out on Allen's alleged racism... but it's already quite clear that he's a classless prick.
A nationally known political figure has to prove his manhood by bullying a 20-year old volunteer? And you think we have a bad President now?
>>and the fact that he had a Tunisian mother,
So, is his mother a dark skinned or a white skinned Tunisian?
It would even have made (slightly, marginally, barely) more sense if he said that the "ma-" came from mullet, which is apparently what people on wikipedia's article of Allen have been saying. But that, in no way, justifies the use of that term. I like Whose God's point about how many Republican aides are as well versed in Spanish as Allen's.
The truth was what Sid said - "He said that, because he could". Like they say in comics; with great power, comes great responsibility. Looks like the red-a$$ed baboon isn't fit for any public office.
(My dream sequence begins now: "If such thing was said by any politician in my homeland, he would have been sacked next day" : end sequence)
:))
I think President Allen's macaca momma might have been a pied noir.
Like Derrida and Camus. Just not as bright.
So, is his mother a dark skinned or a white skinned Tunisian?
His mother is a Sephardic Jew of French/Italian origin, mingled with a smidgen of Spanish...ness. Allen has publicly stated that he is "1/16 Spanish". From the anecdotes I've heard, she identified most with her "French" background; once, she rebuked a reporter who was giving her husband a hard time by hissing at him in French, she renovated her home to mimic parts of the Louvre, she hated giving up her French citizenship for that of a country she deemed "infantile", etc. I find it hilarious that Georgie speaks fluent French, apparently takes after his MOTHER, not his much-revered and adored Father and yet tries to align himself with the anti-pomme frites crowd...methinks the Republican doth tryeth too hard.
I'm calling bullshit on the backpedalling attempt.
nice shirts, though!
many north african jews identified with french culture and civilization. i believe the majority of jews in france today are descendents of sephardic jews from north africa.
DailyKos (and CrooksAndLiars) is on it:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/16/171011/759
I think on my next T-shirt design I'll put the confederate flag behind Allen with the phrase "Macaca for President." What an ass!
He is a redneck, simple as that. When the history of this land is scrutinzed, it is quickly realized that people we associate with "yokels" play a big role. The very foundations of the country, the earliest scots-irish settlers, who began arriving after the Anglos, brought this hillbilly ethos with them as they fled to the backwoods. You look at them and they all look more or less like Dubya. I have been assualted by some of these types, even in the city. And did I mention that this place was also a penal colony for the very worst of the UK's anglo-celtic criminal cretinous degenerates. These were the honourable men who settled the lands that are the "America Today". Proud to be an American?
R.K. Khan,
When calling others a redneck its best not to sound like one yourself. Let's critique the actions of individuals and not generalize like them.
hear, hear Abhi - I know plenty of "brownnecks" if you want to go with that thread. "Aare yaar, these blacks, they are lazy, they did not experience the hardship I did when I came here with $5 in my pocket and made a success of myself", etc. etc.
also, calling someone a redneck is letting them off too easily. we are not talking about some poor ignorant yokel who feels harmed by outsiders, etc. and does not have the benefit of complete information. We are talking about a boy of privilege - George Felix Allen, Jr. He and his ilk are far more dangerous as they influence high-level outcomes.
Not all bigots are "anglo-celtic criminal cretins" as this clip shows...
While macaca/macaque isnt a common ethnic slur in the US, it is used by white supremacists.
Wow !! I had no idea.
We need to make sure that this story doesnt die out. A major political leader calling Indian/S.Asian community a racial slur out in the open is unacceptable and he must pay for this. Looking forward to tonight's nightline.
also, calling someone a redneck is letting them off too easily. we are not talking about some poor ignorant yokel who feels harmed by outsiders, etc. and does not have the benefit of complete information. We are talking about a boy of privilege - George Felix Allen, Jr. He and his ilk are far more dangerous as they influence high-level outcomes.
I agree about the outcomes. It is men like him that inspire in me a hatred held deep. I generalize because the situation is generalizable. When I see a broad pattern -- and I do in american society -- I may freely generalize. Generalization is an extremely useful tool. I'm not all too impressed with exceptions to the general rule. It is only the simplist of statistical thought and probablity involved here. Accept it.
Vikram, my comp doesn't deal well with clips, videos and streaming media. And I'm not too fond of "YouTube". What is it you are referring to?
Speaking as someone who is not Indian but has close connections and studies yoga (smile), I must say I found Allen's comment absurd and insulting not to say ill-advised. Half Tunisian Jewish? Lawdy--who wouldve guessed. Don't know much about those guys, but Moroccan Jewish women were called "pearls of Eden" by a traveling French writer of the 1900s. They have flashing dark eyes and hair (the hair doesn't flash though) but not especially dark skin. Allen probably has an identity problem. I have been around Moroccan Jews quite a bit and wouldn't say no to that.
But I must address poor Mr. Khan. Railing against the evil "celto" (he used a term as absurd as "maccaca", his understanding of American history, anthropologic and cultural, is sadly wanting; it is far richer and more complex than such silliness) who made for the backwoods, blah, blah. Hey, they were not criminals--only Georgia was established as a criminal colony. You must be thinking of Australia.
They did help make the country you decided to come live in. They were known for toughness and independence. Actually, there were few blacks in their major areas, but there native American Indians and they mixed fairly often with them. A remarkable number of American presidents came from among them, as well as inventors and entrepreneurs. Even Bush's progenitors were pretty smart, but admittedly pretty nasty.
However, if they were all that proto-fascist, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you certainly wouldn't be here now complaining about them.
Mr. Khan is understandably apprehensive about the uncouth and degenerate elements from among these people because those who resemble the current "president" attacked him. But I thought that fearing crime because of the usual perpetrators' race was paranoid nonsense. Everyone says so here. Except when they are the victims.
A major political leader calling Indian/S.Asian community a racial slur out in the open is unacceptable and he must pay for this
A lot of the anger on this site and that of other Indians is arising from the perception that Allen insulted the guy knowing that he was Indian. I haven't seen proof of that yet. That doesn't make Allen less of a bigot.
Ok, they're up. Two new designs of Senator Allen with Confederate Flag Background.
http://www.cafepress.com/macacashop
I wonder if I'll get a cease and desist letter....
Osman, if you come up with a version of the shirt that has Air Force One with a confederate flag a la the General Lee, I'll buy one. Yee haw!
Someone in one of the earlier threads was raising interesting questions about the media's failure to probe deeper here. Keith Olbermann, as usual, is an exception:
OLBERMANN: The campaign of the Republican incumbent in Virginia tripped up not by a spelling mistake nor even by politicizing terror, but instead by the senator putting his foot in his mouth and then failing to adequately explain what it was doing there.Senator George Allen, also believed to be positioning himself for a possible run for the presidency in 08, first has to survive reelection in Virginia. To that end, the senator was at a Republican rally near the Kentucky border last Friday when he decided to single out a young man of Indian descent in the crowd, S.R. Sidharth. Sidharth had been videotaping the campaign for Mr. Allens opponent, the Democratic challenger, Jim Webb.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
* * *
(END VIDEO CLIP)OLBERMANN: The problem with that welcome, the senators use of the word Macaca, twice, as it is a term that can refer either to a genus of monkey found mainly in Asia, or to a town in South Africa, or, according to several Web sites that track ethnic slurs, a derogatory racial reference for African immigrants.
Yesterday, Senator Allens spokesman said the senator was referring to a variation of the word Mohawk, a type of haircut that Mr. Sidharth does not seem to have. Today, Senator Allen himself told the Associated Press the word Macaca was just made up, and he had no idea what it means.Quoting the senator further, In no way was it meant to demean him, and Im sorry if he was offended, which is also not exactly the same as saying, I apologize. The senator is [still] putting the burden on the recipient and not on himself.
Keith's coverage today is even better (transcript not yet available). Finally:
We need to make sure that this story doesnt die out. A major political leader calling Indian/S.Asian community a racial slur out in the open is unacceptable and he must pay for this.
I hope that South Asians work in coalition on this with other racial groups -- it's not an issue that affects our communities alone.
Oh this story just keeps getting better and better...
But I must address poor Mr. Khan. Railing against the evil "celto" (he used a term as absurd as "maccaca", his understanding of American history, anthropologic and cultural, is sadly wanting; it is far richer and more complex than such silliness) who made for the backwoods, blah, blah. Hey, they were not criminals--only Georgia was established as a criminal colony. You must be thinking of Australia.
Ok, only georgia. But not all criminals were sent there. I have read this. Apart from that, how much of american history is hidden, invented, and painted over for coverup? A lot. American history is not really that "rich" or complex from a non-jinogist rational standpoint. America has a filthy degenerate history, for a filthy and degenerate culture imo.
They did help make the country you decided to come live in. They were known for toughness and independence.
Hey, I never decided to come live here. They may have been known for their independence, but no one really wanted them. The Anglos didn't even like them.
seriously folks, we need your signatures on the IALI petition. A lot of APIA groups, RaisingKaine.com, and the Webb campaign are spreading the word. We plan on delivering a whole pile of steaming macaca signatures to Senator Allen personally. (We'd be happy to enclose a t-shirt.)
OOhhh, did I hear someone say "Macaca-gate"?
which is also not exactly the same as saying, I apologize. The senator is [still] putting the burden on the recipient and not on himself.
Wow, I'm impressed by someone in MSM actually said that!
Incidentally, Ennis, the Confederate flag is the least of it with this guy. It's well-documented that the man had a NOOSE on display in his office, and then tried to explain it away as "more of a lasso" that "ha[d] nothing to do with lynching."
More of a lasso. Only used, I'm sure, to round up varmints with mohawks.
allen is a complete and utter moronic southern jackass..
after watching the video several times in um... utter disbelief...had to contribute to his opponents campaign... how could one not?
and it doesn't matter he knew the guy was indian or not... he still was wrong.. better to keep mouth shut than spew out something as dumb as ehem..sh*thead?
if this is what politics is coming to, it is indeed the kali yuga... (sigh)....
His mother...identified most with her "French" background; once, she rebuked a reporter who was giving her husband a hard time by hissing at him in French, she renovated her home to mimic parts of the Louvre, she hated giving up her French citizenship for that of a country she deemed "infantile", etc.
That right there would sink his campaign, if it got out. Macaca would only be the final nail in the coffin.
See what the Indian have to say about the "macaca" situation..
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1843/allenscrewupje7.jpg
His mother is a Sephardic Jew of French/Italian origin, mingled with a smidgen of Spanish...ness. Allen has publicly stated that he is "1/16 Spanish". From the anecdotes I've heard, she identified most with her "French" background; once, she rebuked a reporter who was giving her husband a hard time by hissing at him in French, she renovated her home to mimic parts of the Louvre, she hated giving up her French citizenship for that of a country she deemed "infantile", etc. I find it hilarious that Georgie speaks fluent French, apparently takes after his MOTHER, not his much-revered and adored Father and yet tries to align himself with the anti-pomme frites crowd...methinks the Republican doth tryeth too hard.
This bears a closer look. Anna, where are you getting this?
Welcome to AmeriKKKaKa!
Sadly, I don't think this display of racial insensitivity is going to hurt George Allen's chances in Virginia, though it may harm his future presidential ambitions.
What's even sadder is that there are Indians out there who are defending him, like the Indian American Republican Council.
They are nothing but Indian Uncle Toms.
(And the same applies for submissive Indian Democrats who were quick to forgive the stupid comments Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton made not too long ago about Indian convenience store slerks and gas station attendants, though those comments seemed more ignorant than antagonistic, particularly Clinton's lame Gandhi quip which she disowned right upon utterance.)
From The Hindu article "Indian organisations in US criticise Senator Allen":
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200608160910.htm
However, the Indian American Republican Council jumped to Allen's support, saying his Democratic political opponent Jim Webb was using an Indian volunteer in a "demeaning fashion" to garner support for his political campaign.
"We don't believe Senator George Allen was making a reference to the ethnicity of Jim Webb's campaign volunteer. He has apologised for any misunderstanding this statement has caused," IARC Chairman R Vijay said.
"We do know that Senator Allen has worked closely with Indian Americans when he was Governor and as US Senator, and he has always garnered strong support from the community. He has visited India and showed strong leadership in supporting the US-India civilian nuclear agreement," Vijay said in his statement.
Allen's mother immigrated from French Tunisia, and was "Italian, French and a little Spanish" and according to Allen, was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp during World War II.[7] According to Allen's sister Jennifer, their mother "prided herself for being un-American. ... She was ashamed that she had given up her French citizenship to become a citizen of a country she deemed infantile."[wiki]
Whuppin' his siblings might have been a natural prelude to Confederate sympathies and noose-collecting if Allen had grown up in, say, a shack in Alabama. But what is most puzzling about Allen's interest in the old Confederacy is that he didn't grow up in the South. Like a military brat, Allen hopscotched around the country on a route set by his father's coaching career. The son was born in Whittier, California, in 1952 (Whittier College Poets), moved to the suburbs of Chicago for eight years (the Bears), and arrived in Southern California as a teenager (the Rams). In Palos Verdes, an exclusive cliffside community, he lived in a palatial home with sweeping views of downtown Los Angeles and the Santa Monica basin. It had handmade Italian tiles and staircases that his eccentric mother, Etty, designed to match those in the Louvre. "It looks like a French château," says Linda Hurt Germany, a high school classmate.
Even the elder George Allen wasn't Southern--he grew up in the Midwest--but the oddest part of the myth of George Allen's Dixie rusticity is his mother. Rather than a Southern belle, Etty was, in fact, French, and, as such, she was a deliciously indiscreet cultural libertine. She would do housework in her bra and panties. She wore muumuus and wraparound sunglasses and once won a belly button contest. According to Jennifer, "Mom prided herself for being un-American. ... She was ashamed that she had given up her French citizenship to become a citizen of a country she deemed infantile." When her husband later moved the family to Virginia, Etty despised living in the state. She was also anti-Washington before her son ever was, albeit in a slightly more continental fashion. "Washingtonians think their town resembles Paris," she once scoffed. "If Paris passed gas, you'd have Washington."
Allen is now so associated with football--he played at Palos Verdes High School and at UVA, speaks in famously complicated football metaphors, and frequently tosses around the pigskin at campaign events--that he is most often described in relation to his father. But his siblings have said he actually takes after mom. Like Etty, George saw himself as disconnected from the culture in which he lived. He hated California and, while there, became obsessed with the supposed authenticity of rural life--or at least what he imagined it to be from episodes of "Hee Haw," his favorite TV show, or family vacations in Mexico, where he rode horses. Perhaps because of his peripatetic childhood, the South's deeply rooted culture attracted him. Or perhaps it was a romance with the masculinity and violence of that culture; his father, who was not one to spare the rod, once broke his son Gregory's nose in a fight. Whatever it was, Allen got his first pair of those now-iconic cowboy boots from one of his father's players on the Rams who received them as a promotional freebie. He also learned to dip from his dad's players. At school, he started to wear an Australian bush hat, complete with a dangling chin strap and the left brim snapped up. He wore the hat for a yearbook photo of the falconry club. His favorite record was Johnny Cash's At Folsom Prison. Writing of her brother's love for the "big, slow-witted Junior" on "Hee Haw," Jennifer reports, "[t]here was also something mildly country-thuggish about Junior that I think George felt akin to." [link]
Offcourse that guy was a racist figure but why a site like SM giving him more importance by making posts?Is it all about being touchy?Just wondering
What would have been funny is if S.R. Sidharth had snapped back "Pahench*d" at him ;)
Just think about it. Countless numbers of non-desis feverishly Googling away to try to find out what the hell the word means.
I think you guys need more Punjabis in American politics ;)
Dan Riehl has an alternative take on the issue. He doesn't talk about the macaca reference, but thinks that the Washington Post distorted the bit about "Welcome to America".
But that Sidharth fella really needs to think about changing barbers hair stylists (thats what they're being called these days, I'm told). Maybe he cut his own hair. Well, mohawk or mullet, whatever it is, its fugly! Kinda makes me wonder.. does he even get laid? Is that haircut not proving to be detrimental to his sexlife? And if he is pullin them women, it must be because of the macaca pheromones.. i'm rambling! :p
Ken
p.s. the name is a reference to the song "Trou Macacq" by the Squirrel Nut Zippers.
http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/43910/Clerks_2_Is_Porch_Monkey_A_Racial_Slur.html
lmao..
I think you guys need more Punjabis in American politics ;)
Now there's the understatement of the century. I keep waiting for Punjabi brother Bobby Jindal to get on the floor of the House of Representatives and say "chakde phatte!"....
Whuppin' his siblings might have been a natural prelude to Confederate sympathies and noose-collecting if Allen had grown up in, say, a shack in Alabama. But what is most puzzling about Allen's interest in the old Confederacy is that he didn't grow up in the South...
This guy sounds like a stone-cold mercenary. He might not even have any strong personal opinions on Indians or race and racism in general... but if coming across as a bully and a bigot is what it takes to get ahead...
At least the real, hardcore bedsheet-wearing Southern racists believe in something... which leaves them one step ahead of people like Allen. If this guy was running for office in Oregon he'd be riding around in an electric car and picking out folk tunes on his acoustic guitar. If he was running in Gujarat he'd be wearing an RSS decoder ring and cuddling a Narendra Modi plush doll...
"I have read this. Apart from that, how much of american history is hidden, invented, and painted over for coverup? A lot. American history is not really that "rich" or complex from a non-jinogist rational standpoint. America has a filthy degenerate history, for a filthy and degenerate culture imo."
Yessir. Rational and non-jingoistic discussions are certainly what we should all aim for.
By the way, where DO you live then?
sigh. what to say to such obtuseness? I am used to desis who have a more panoramic view of the world, even if they do not personally like a certain place.
Well, it's a slow afternoon, so here goes.
One has to have fallen from a great height to be so "degenerate". Actually, you have a point. You want a smear job, look no further than 9/11 and all that has transpired since, although this stretches way beyond America. When you get right down to it, there isn't much of America left, and the filthy, degenerate corporations are blamable. They just boxed up the auto plants last June and auctioned them off. America peaked about 1960 and it's been downhill ever since. Maybe that's ok. It was a good run.
I am still wondering why so many want to come here, but my Indian friends seem unclear. They just don't want to stay in India.
However, it's the more distant history in question here, and for the real, true truth, we are to trust--whom?
America doesn't go back to the Baghvad Gita or Mohammed's tents. Just about everything you could say about the founders and America has been said, just not always well publicized. Do you have any idea, for example, of the fate of the signers of the Declaration of Independence? Amazing and ghastly, and well documented, but how many know? That story alone would make a epic.
It's not that hard to piece together the happenings in a largely literate and well documented/archived era which has always drawn extensive observation and commentary from all over the world, and from all types within. Whole books have been written on the influence of the Confederation of the Iriquois Indians, the Free Masons, etc. The corruption of business and politicians--we know it. Slavery? Did the Muslims ever think of shedding their blood to end the caste system? Why would they? Islam had no problem with slavery.
I'd say a country whose "Battle Hymn of the Republic" includes the line "let us die to make men free", said men being of another race, is pretty rich in more ways than one. Men marched to their deaths singing that, whatever politicians' had in mind for making war. The jingo ends where real blood is shed. The last surviving soldier of the Civil War died in 1957. You might want to check out Ken Burns' Civil War series to get a handle on the ethos that still informs this culture and produces people like Mr. Allen.
However, everyone studies history from a certain perspective.
Me, I have a few black jelly beans (Afros) mixed in among the white (Euros) and red (natives) of my ancestors. The Euros and Afros have been here 350 years. The natives--who knows.
I actually do not normally defend this country much as I am pretty disgusted with it of late, but ignorance about its history is annoying as I am a student of world history.
One thing I have learned over the years. I NEVER shoot off about the history and social ills of another person's country. Because I am NEVER going to have the perspective that someone who has lived and breathed in it would have. I don't have a clue what it was like to be Indian during the Partition, or any other time. I can read, study, rationally discuss it with friends I trust, but I will not fully understand.
I NEVER shoot off about the history and social ills of another person's country. Because I am NEVER going to have the perspective that someone who has lived and breathed in it would have. I don't have a clue what it was like to be Indian during the Partition, or any other time.
But doing yoga and having a few brown friends obviously does give you the right to shoot off...about something, or more accurately, a lot of things? Everyone has the right to post their thoughts here, there's no need to offer up your fitness habits or anything else in order to gain admission to this space. It's slightly odd that you did.
Others may disagree, but I found your seemingly breezy, actually aimless comments slightly condescending vs. detached or neutral. The vast majority of us don't agree with R.K. Khan and I don't think any of us wanted to feed a troll to prove that to you.
What if Sidarth had been African American? There would have been hell to pay. Massive protests led by Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, etc. The fact is that Asians and Indians are the only remaining minorities that can be put down with relative impunity. We sadly have no political clout.
The fact is that Asians and Indians are the only remaining minorities that can be put down with relative impunity. We sadly have no political clout.
the analogy isn't appropriate. african americans have a long history in this nation of being enslaved, lynches and caricatured as monkeys. yes, it is true that americans are more sensitive toward blacks, but, there is a reason.
(this doesn't justify totally the disparate treatment, some of the descriptions of bobby jindal, "dark skinned republican" would have been WAY beyond the ken of respectibility for an african american)
Wow - I agree with almost everything Razib said just there. Weird, eh? :) [Disagree on color, now open topic of discussion amongst African-Americans]
Ok, I'm a bit confused. Allen's mom - pied-noir or actually of Arab (or Berber or whatever) descent? I would find it very hard to believe he would ever have heard that word coming from her in a derogatory fashion if it would be a word that the 'francais de souche' would use to describe HER...
Allen's mom is Sephardic Jewish.
My understanding is that she was French/Italian (and a teensy bit Spanish!) and that she was raised in or taken to Tunisia to escape the Nazis, since as Ennis reminds us, she was a Sephardic Jew. I don't think she has black feet at all.
Pied-noir can refer to Arabs and Berbers, but it's usually taken to mean (Caucasian) French people who live(d) in North Africa. I used it in this sense, and it's into this category that Camus and Derrida both fall.
I don't know if the term exists in an English translation. "Black feet" certainly strikes my ear as odd.
Pied-noir (plural: pieds-noirs) is a term for the former population of European descent of North Africa, especially Algeria, which was divided into three French departments until its 1962 independence. It also includes the Algerian Jewish population, some of whose ancestors had fled Spain after the Reconquista. Literally Pied-noir means "black foot" in French. Supposedly, one way the colonists could be distinguished from the indigenous Algerians was by the black boots that the French wore. According to Le Robert French dictionary, it appeared around 1901 to refer to bare-foot indigenous Algerian stokers on boat at a time when coal was the main type of fuel who would get their feet dirty in coal dust. By extension, the term pied-noir was applied to indigenous Algerians. At that time, European Algerians described themselves as Algerian in relation to metropolitan French. But in the 1920s and 1930s, the term Algerian came to be monopolised by indigenous Arab/Berber Algerians as Algerian nationalism became a political force to be reckoned with. By 1955, European Algerians started applying the term Pied-noir to themselves. One of the most famous pied-noir was Albert Camus. [wiki wiki wiki wiki]
I couldn't get the bolded part off my mind, Kobayashi-san...I was just being an ass. ;)
Kobayashi, most Americans I know who study French history call them pied-noir as well... no translation needed.
Seems his family was already in the US when Algeria declared independence, so I really don't think the politics of the situation would affect either of them too much.
The only reason it would make any difference is in how his mother herself would have viewed darker-skinned people, and the attitudes she passed down to Allen himself. If she was a white European living in colonial Tunisia ... well, I think you can figure out probably the way she was socialized to view them. The Jewish angle complicates it a little. It's not unheard of though for cultural minorites to look down on other cultural minorities :P
I feel ashamed to share a last name with this senator.
And i SO WANT a macaca T-shirt. :)
I feel ashamed to share a last name with this senator.
Change it to "Mutineer"! We're like the Ramones, only browner. ;)
Andrea Mutineer... sounds pretty cool :) Shane might disapprove tho... we can't make him sad :(
Simple solution - change Shane's name too!
apologies if this has been posted already, but this man sounds a bit scary, if his sister is to be believed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/08/16/gop-senator-george-allen_n_27382.html
this particular one is disconcerting, to say the least. if this is how he treats his own family......:
"Explaining why she is scared of heights, Ms. Allen writes that Ever since my brother George held me over the railing at Niagara Falls, Ive had a fear of heights. [Fifth Quarter: The Scrimmage of a Football Coach's Daughter, page 43]"
He is a redneck
He is a Californian, just like Dubya is from Connecticut. All squalls, no balls.
What's up my macacas!? Takin' it back yo! Porch Monkey 4 Life! Takin' it back!
Still, why the hell does the staff have to pick on one cameraman? It's just one camera. Publicity is normally a good thing for a smart politician and staff. Oh wait...
Others may disagree, but I found your seemingly breezy, actually aimless comments slightly condescending vs. detached or neutral. The vast majority of us don't agree with R.K. Khan and I don't think any of us wanted to feed a troll to prove that to you
Don't mean to sound condescending and there is nothing to prove. Having desi friends is significant because it has made me interested in some of the subjects discussed here since my former college roommate introduced me to this site. He thought it was a good way to get to know the desi-spora as he called it and I am interested in all kinds of cultures. Mentioning yoga was meant as a joke. It was more to meet the opposite sex than for fitness.
the analogy isn't appropriate. african americans have a long history in this nation of being enslaved, lynches and caricatured as monkeys. yes, it is true that americans are more sensitive toward blacks, but, there is a reason.
The issue is not one of justification, i.e., that African Americans should feel more slighted than S.Asians because they have history of enslavement. (The fact is that S. Asians also have a long history of white exploitation / colonialism.) The only point i was trying to make is that we have no clout. People can make racist comments about us and generally get away with it.
The fact is that S. Asians also have a long history of white exploitation / colonialism.
Yes, but not by (white) Americans.
The references to Allen's mother's ethnicity started with trying to see if he had any chance of knowing what Macaca is.
Now it seems to have taken on a life of its own. Was she French? Ohhh! Terrible. She was actually Jewish? Oh my God!
This too started of rather mildly supercilious "Rednecks won't approve". But do I detect a bit of "I hope the Virginians vote him out on the basis of his mother's ancestry." ?
But do I detect a bit of "I hope the Virginians vote him out on the basis of his mother's ancestry." ?
No.
He is a Californian, just like Dubya is from Connecticut. All squalls, no balls.
straight outta Palos Verdes, baby.
But do I detect a bit of "I hope the Virginians vote him out on the basis of his mother's ancestry." ?No.
What is the relevance of all this stuff here then?
According to Jennifer, "Mom prided herself for being un-American. ... She was ashamed that she had given up her French citizenship to become a citizen of a country she deemed infantile."
Allen should be judged for who he is, not who his mother is.
Allen should be judged for who he is, not who his mother is.
I don't think anyone is asking Allen to be judged on anything other than who he is. But, I believe the desire here is to explore things and viewpoints he was/might have been exposed to during his upbringing. For example, if I have a racist parent, chances are, one way or the other, it will have some influence (perhaps at best subconsciously) in my life, whether it is positive or negative. It's up to me what I do/deal with it. The thinking is that since his mother has ties to North Africa, there is a prossibility that he's at least heard the offending term before. He's already displayed other racist/ethnic insensitivities, so there's certainly a valid pattern on which to base an assumption.
If it were I, and I truly had just randomly come up with the utterance, then I would profusely apologize to the individual in question. However, Allen's only apologized for the recipient's misinterpretation and apparently not even face to face. I think these conditions combined have fueled the fire.
Sure, No Desh. I know (see #65) that it did start out trying to see if Allen knew about 'Macaca' or not.
The fire, no doubt, is justifiably fueled and all that crap he has done, plus his pathetic apology earn him a lot of trouble.
My question is, how is his mother's America-hating and French-loving or Jewishness coming in? Some of us descended from criminals who fled to this country. Some of us are kids/grandkids of people back home who dislike America. Does that count against us if we ran for public office?
Open Letter to Sen. Allen
Hey you Pigkaka, or whatever they call you. I will never vote for you. Check out the polls--Virginia has spoken. Welcome to 21st century America. Get yourself a digital computerized vacuum cleaner and start cleaning up that bigotry you have been practising for decades.
Disclaimer: I don't know what that word means. I meant no offense by it. Perhaps, I meant to say "pigtails," referring to Mr. Allen's hairstyle.
The definition of "pied-noir" in Wikipedia is politically correct nonsense. The French (the racist ones) called Pied-Noir the French population returning to France from the N Africa colonies, after France lost them. It is a racial insult that suggest that they were not "quite white" whatever that means. In France you would not call anybody directly a pied-noir becuase it is an insult. ItŽs funny that Allen comes from a pied noir mother and uses racial insults directly at other people. There is not such a word as "macaca". The word is "macaco" (Spanish) and besides meaning monkey is a racial insult that means "very ugly" and itŽs directed at dark skinned people. No doubt Allen knows the word Macaco which is the same in French, Italian and Spanish (his mother origins). He probably said macaca to make it sound more funny (caca - shit) or because his Spanish is not quite that good.
" To prevent comment spam, please type the word brown below: " Now that's very good.
"From Hell's heart, I stab at thee... For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee..." - Khan's last words
There is no such thing as anglo-celt, silly boy.
I thought it was a nice touch to get a Travis Pickles haircut and follow a politician around, 10 out of 10 for style.
