August 17, 2006
Boarding passes and foreskins ready, pleaseHumor
Abhi and I have both independently been thinking about the same problem, but we’ve come to slightly different solutions. Imagine for a second that Representative King and conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher and other wingnuts are right. Maybe it’s time to overcome our politically correct scruples and embrace overt profiling of all Muslim males. Maybe what we need is a screening policy that makes sure that every single Muslim male is scrutinized, and not one gets by without close examination.
How would we implement this?
None of those in favor of the plan have thought about implementation. For example, this is what one Republican congressional candidate said:
“Well, you know, if he comes in wearing a turban and his name is Mohammed, that’s a good start” [Link]
Yeah riiiiiight. That would be around as effective as looking for men with “Terrorist” signs around their neck.
King calls for special treatment of all travellers of Middle Eastern or South Asian origin, but that clearly would be insufficient to accomplish his goals. 25% of all Muslims in America are black, and his plan ignores all of them. There have also been several serious plots involving both South East Asian Muslims and African ones, so we would need something far more extreme than the wimpy measures King suggests.
No, if we’re going to be real men about this, we have to overcome our squeamishness, adapt a rigid approach and realize that all Muslim men have only one physical attribute in common - they’re all circumcised.
That’s right - I think there should be one line for men with foreskin, and another for men without. Uncut males get expedited boarding, while the circumcised get extra scrutiny.
If we think about the global population, there are only a few types of men who are circumcised: Jews, Muslims, certain African ethnic groups, and North Americans. Really, a minority of the world, but one that encomasses all Muslim men.
Certainly there will be false positives, but we already accepted that when we agreed to screen all Muslims. If you’re truly innocent, then this should be hardly any skin off your nose.
I say it’s time for all circumcised Americans stand up straight and make a small sacrifice for national security. What say you?
ennis on August 17, 2006 06:30 PM in Humor · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
¤ I Speak of Dreams said: Two Solutions for Screening
¤ I Speak of Dreams said: Two Solutions for Screening
This is not a photograph of my pal Ennis. Ennis is much, much more handsome. And his beard isn't grey. At Sepia Mutiny, Ennis has a solution for the problem of racial profiling. He says, bring it on. And off.
¤ I Speak of Dreams said: Two Solutions for Screening
This is not a photograph of my pal Ennis. Ennis is much, much more handsome. And his beard isn't grey. At Sepia Mutiny, Ennis has a solution for the problem of racial profiling. He says, bring it on. And off.
south koreans and filipinos are circumcised too (americo-emulation).
Hilarious, though I'd feel sorry for the poor guy stuck with the screening duty. Not likely to go over since the vast majority of the decision-makers in this regard are probably circumcised themselves.
If they're innocent, they should be willing to make a small sacrifice to make sure that all Muslim men are also screened. And if they really hate being singled out, they could always go in for elective foreskin re-attachment surgery ;)
You'd get fewer false positives in the future. The American Academy of Pediatrics announced 5 or so years ago that it couldn't recommend for or against circumcision anymore (they used to recommend it). I have a lot of friends who've opted not to circumcize their sons since that announcement.
Hilarious, though I'd feel sorry for the poor guy stuck with the screening duty.
That's why you need 50 virgins for the job.
That's why you need 50 virgins for the job.
I would worry that such inexperienced men would be traumatized and prone to excessive self-doubt. . .
I'm a non-Muslim (raised Roman Catholic) who was circumsised at birth. That was apparently a big "healthy" parenting fad in the late 60's...
PS- This post gives me the creeps, even though it was obviously submitted in jest. I'm reminded of all the horror stories from Partition of the militias setting up roadblocks and subjecting all male passers by to shortarm inspections. The wrong result got you a bullet in the back of the head. I actually had nightmares after I read about that somewhere when I was a little kid...
We should combine this with Abhi's matchmaking "Sepia Destiny" idea. That's a no-brainer.
Sidenote; A college friend's father has become a strong anti-circumcision activist in the past five years. how this happened, no one knows, but when my friend asked him what he wanted for Christmas, his response was "my foreskin".
See, I think of Abhi's proposal as being a poorly disguised affirmative action plan for desi men. But then again, maybe there's more than one way to skin a ...
I'm a non-Muslim (raised Roman Catholic) who was circumsised at birth. That was apparently a big "healthy" parenting fad in the late 60's...
circumcision became common in the anglo-world (england, NZ, oz, USA and canada) in the late 19th century. there are manifold reasons. one of them was british philo-semitism, as queen victoria had her sons circumcised under the assumption that her house was descended from the line of david (the windsors up to charles have been cut, though diana refused to let her sons be circumcised). additionally, there was a medical movement simultaneously which argued that circumcision alleviated mental illnesses like masturbation. finally, after world war II the US really pushed it hard because of higher infection rates of uncut soldiers during the war because of the inability to wash for long periods of time. circumcision became rare after world war II in england and oz & NZ cuz the national health services wouldn't subsidize it. in contrast it remained popular in the USA and canada for longer. there are variations across the USA in rates of circumcision, with the lowest rates among immigrants & minorities, lower SES groups and in the pacific northwest, higher rates among high SES, northeasterners and native born whites.
it is an emotional issue, and i am curious if this thread will devolve with an influx of circum & anti activists via google searches....
There's a sex and the city episode that touches on this whic is kinda funny. It must have been an early one b/c I haven't seen too many.
datta, leave it to you to take this to the gutter....
Razib - do you have figures on South Asian Americans? And where's Saurav?
do you have figures on South Asian Americans?
no. i assume that all muslims will be cut, and my impression is that non-muslims remain uncut. i was curious if like other immigrant groups brown non-muslims allowed their children to be cut so i've asked, and it all seems negatory. the difference is that european immigrants didn't come form cultures where there was a large minority who were distinctive in being circumcized. in bengali circumcision translates to "becoming a muslim," so i think there are reasons hindus wouldn't assimilate to this dominant practice (i believe it is the same in russian from comments putin made which were misunderstanding in america where the close relationship between islam & circumcision isn't understood).
Ennis,
How about a separate line where man with more than one wife stands.
Im sure they all have at least four wives, how can one not take advantage of this opportunity.
...it remained popular in the USA and canada for longer...
Yes, I was born in the U.S... in New Orleans, in 1968, to be more specific.
I can still remember my parents explaining circumcision... and its supposed health benefits... during their "Birds & Bees" lectures...
I actually had nightmares after I read about that somewhere when I was a little kid...
Same here. Raised hindu Bengali and was circumcised as a result of a diagnosis of physiologic phimosis. Those partition-story nightmares came back the other day when I was watching Mr.and Mrs. Iyer.
i do think ennis' foreskin emphasis is interesting, as it will emphasize to many americans what they share with muslims in particular :)
I'm not sure how far this is true, but I've heard that during the Bombay riots, violent mobs would grab kids and have them recite the qalimah syahadat (proclamation of Islamic) or the Gayathri mantra, depending of course which mob one's misfortune collides with. And then boys are promptly asked to strip, and the presence of foreskin would result in immediate immolation (and vice versa of course -- kid is asked to recite the Gayathri mantra, and then asked to strip). I have no clue on the veracity of this story, but it isn't far fetched considering the violent proclivity of impassioned imberciles.
Sorry OT macacas - but great interview with our dear young SR Sidarth on Young Turks:
http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2006/8/16/201332/564
This won't help weed out the female terrorists though... Nor the cross dressing ones...
Thotta,
I don't know the merit of this story but during partition this is the only way to get away from the hands of murders. Usually you drop down your pants (or whatever one wearing) to show your privates and then you know what. I still wonder how they distinguish between females.
These guys are taking a different approach: at least prevent the terrorists from getting their 72 virgins if you can't stop them:
Overcome the fear of terror with the threat of eternal damnation.When you buy and use an Infidel's Revenge products you will be putting fear, uncertainty and doubt into the mind of would-be-suicide bombers. Fanatical "Muslim's of the Jihad" are motivated to commit their suicide bombings with the promise of immediate paradise and 72 virgin companions for eternity. However, their strict ancient doctrine also teaches that their souls are damned should their flesh come in contact with pigs blood at the time of their death.
Actually this may have a higher chance of being more effective than any of the ineffective and expensive bomb scanning, profiling, wire tapping etc etc currently being done. ;-)
I've considered a few of these and I can't see it. The 9/11 hijackers in Boston went to a strip club and drank alcohol the night before. They weren't exactly behaving in a doctrinaire way. Foreskin, though, is part of the covenant with God. It's at a very different level.
Oh there is no reason to have TSA human employee to do this ingenius "check" that is going to save us from all terrorism. This is a great idea. I say, give Lokheed Martin or GE or Northrup Grumman a 10-15 Billion dollors contract to come up with a wee-wee scanner. Although the actual cost may be 1/10 of the contract, but for "security" we must pay 800 dollars for a toilest seat.
Foreskin, though, is part of the covenant with God.
not really, or at least there is nothing within the koran. it is simply an islamic custom (the pre-islamic arabs circumcised themselves, as did the egyptians), it does not have a sacral conotation as it does in judaism. and this isn't just some obscure fact, my father knows this from his own father who was schooled hanafi sunni tradition.
though ennis' point is well taken. this is a close to 'fool proof' method of distinguishing non-muslim brown from muslim brown.
The jews are circumcised too....so can't see this working
Wait, umm, guys, are you saying most North Americans are circumcised? Or only of the generation before World War II? I am surprised that the Windsors were too. In terms of total world population, is it the norm then rather than the exception?
Wait, umm, guys, are you saying most North Americans are circumcised? Or only of the generation before World War II? I am surprised that the Windsors were too. In terms of total world population, is it the norm then rather than the exception?
1) yes, most north americans. the peak of circum. rates was 90% of american infants in the 1960s, but i think it has dropped down to the 60% level in the last few years. in canada is even lower. there are regional variations, less circumcision in the west, more in the northeast.
2) about 70% of circumcised males in the world are muslim. most of the rest are either african or american (USA). most west african and east african cultures circumcise even if they are not muslim. the zulu in south africa do not (shaka banned it), many of the nilotic peoples do not (e.g., the luo of kenya are the only major ethnic group not to circumcise).
3) philippines and south korea are two nations which started circumcision in explicit emulation of american norms after world war ii.
there is confusion over this. most americans don't know that europeans, or their forebears, do/did not circumcise. i even understand that some americans think that christians are circumcised! i remember reading a science fiction novel in the 90s where the author states that a naked main character was "obviously western" because he was circumcised (would be a surprise to europeans :)
p.s. circumcision is found in many cultures, though the preponderance are found among the ones listed above. i know of australian aboriginal groups which practice, but numerically they are obviousy trivial.
There is still a push in for circumcision in some American hospitals. My brother and his wife recently had a boy and the doctors were borderline coercive in recommending it. It got to the point that he simply told them that Hindus don't do that and they backed off.
I am Indian Christian (born in the US), and I'm circumsized.
I am Indian Christian (born in the US), and I'm circumsized.
i will offer a hypothesis that christian browns will circumcise because it is still the dominant cultural norm, but hindus and sikhs will not, because christianity does not contrast itself with islam on this particular issue much. hindus and sikhs will not circumcise because of the cultural issues alluded to above.
about 70% of circumcised males in the world are muslim.
Razib - do you have a source for this? You can comment here or email me, but that makes this argument stronger than it had initially appeared.
Foreskin, though, is part of the covenant with God.not really, or at least there is nothing within the koran. it is simply an islamic custom (the pre-islamic arabs circumcised themselves, as did the egyptians), it does not have a sacral conotation as it does in judaism. and this isn't just some obscure fact, my father knows this from his own father who was schooled hanafi sunni tradition.
I stand corrected. That makes it even more interesting though. An Abrahamic faith that doesn't view circumcision as a covenant.
I say its time for all circumcised Americans stand up straight and make a small sacrifice for national security.
Stand up straight, eh. LOL.
My favorite country name is "Burkina Faso" which under colonial rule was called "Upper Volta". "Burkina Faso" translates to "the land of upright men"
Hmmm... so only Schmucks on a Plane are considered safe ?
ennis,
i saw it in lit in the mid 90s, so i can't reference, but
1.2 billion muslim (all cut)
80% of american males cut = 240 (this is probably an overestimate, but let's use it)
55% of african are not muslim X 850 million = 467 (that is a pretty big overestimate i suspect)
but, taking that, we get 62% of circumcised males in the world being muslim (south korea and phillipines would add trivial numbers to that). i think this is probably the low bound because of assumptions i made above (the african number is probably closer to 70% of non-muslim males).
"Burkina Faso" translates to "the land of upright men"
Maybe that further translates to men of good health or something. lol
And if they really hate being singled out, they could always go in for elective foreskin re-attachment surgery ;)Or, purchase this.
How about asking each passenger what his or her favortie episode of Seinfeld is? No terrorist would ever watch a show with such a jewey name to it and anyone who watches Seinfeld has to be somewhat of a decent human being.
And another thing. If these people are so attached to profiling, how about putting a GPS tracking device on each white male who ever travels to asia. It seems like the only thing they ever go to Asia for is for all the young children there to "PLAY" with if you know what im saying.
Razib: more recent figures on variation in circumcision rates in the USA over time, but no cumulative figures indicating what percentage of males are currently cut. My guess is closer to 70% than 80%.
This surprised me:
Non-circumcision has been the norm in the Western Region for more than a decade.
I'd concur with BranchDravidian. While I realize we're trying to be funny here, I'd still find this post to be historically insensitive; at various points in our violent history, (the absence/ presence of) foreskin meant the difference between life and death for thousands in South Asia. To wish for such a situation, even satirically, feels wrong on so many different levels.
ennis,
the west of the USA is the most secular and in many ways the most culturally avante guarde. one thing that keeps circumcision common in the northeast is obviously the large jewish population, and jewish docs tend to be a bit more supportive of this practice than not :) but yes, i've had friends who worked in day care, and they can attest to the change (they were frankly a big disgusted by it since the vast majority of male penises they had seen in their life were circumcised).
Well, they'll have to get used to it. For Americans born in 2003, only 56% were cut leaving 44% intact. That's a big drop from a peak of 85% circumcision in 1965.
To much talk about a little piece of skin.
God said that if you love him you should take a knife to your wang and if that doesnt make sense then your a racist.
Razib, wait a min. You say 1.2 billion muslims all cut. Is there something I didn't get, or did you just count in ALL muslims, male and female in the 1.2? Or are you implying there are about 2.4 billion muslims in the world?
Razib, wait a min. You say 1.2 billion muslims all cut. Is there something I didn't get, or did you just count in ALL muslims, male and female in the 1.2? Or are you implying there are about 2.4 billion muslims in the world?
sh*t, you're right. but it doesn't matter, sex ratio is about 50:50 so it is all normalized right.
sh*t, you're right. but it doesn't matter, sex ratio is about 50:50 so it is all normalized right
Your not taking into consideration female circumcision.
Your not taking into consideration female circumcision.
LOL. dude. nearly 100% of muslim males are cut. only a minority of muslim females are, and they are mostly african. and many african women are circumcised too.
(i know, not a laughing matter, but i'm imaginging who exactly will be volunteering to do 'clit' checks)
(i know, not a laughing matter, but i'm imaginging who exactly will be volunteering to do 'clit' checks)
lol As if those 50 virgins weren't already uncomfortable...
#19 Thotta
I view the report of mobs trying to ascertain if the person was Hindu by asking him to say the Gayatri Mantra with more than a little bit of suspicion. Not too many Hindus know the mantra in the first place. It is "revealed" to a Hindu dwija boy during his upanayanam when his father whispers it into his ear. Since only dwijas have upanayanams, and these days the practice is probably dwindling, I would be surprised if more than 10% of adult Hindus know the mantra.
JM,
I'd disagree - Gayatri mantr is the first mantr of any in my experince of moving in non-brahmin circles and quite widely known. If people know anything like a shlok, its likely to be the Gayatri. I'm sure this situation is stronger in brahmin households.
BTW, while it may be 'revealed' during a ceremony, that applies to brahmins only. For the rest of us, its merely 'found' rather than 'revealed'. :)
Seeker:
I guess I am surprised. What percentage of Hindus do you estimate know the mantra? I agree that the "revelation" is just a formality and the mantra is chanted for all to hear in most festivals/pujas. But still, the Hindu needs to be motivated and educated to get to know about it. From what I can see, only observant Hindus know even bhajans, and of that lot, only a smaller portion knows basic mantras.
Err...guys, how about women? Just because women have not been caught does not mean they are not involved? How do you find out conclusively if she is a terrorist or not? May be there were back up ladies for all the plots, plus, most of the liquid explosives can be very easily masked as cosmetics.
PS - lets keep aside the point that every women is a terror at her home:)
MY Bangladesh-born boyfriend wasn't cut until he was 7 years old! He was supposed to die soon after his birth, so they just forgot about it until he was old enough to remember everything about the procedure! Eyyeewww. He says mostly he felt humiliated being laid up in bed while pretty female cousins came by and made fun of him. That, and being unable to pee because of a scab, and having an uncle pick it off and consequently weeing explosively right in the guy's face. There's y'all's TMI for the day. ;)
if you're 'truly' innocent..
oh yes we know all about your wonderfully just US legal system and excellent logic re: innocence and 'innocent until proven guilty'
**LAUGHS HYSTERICALLY**
i.e. bomb an entire country looking for one fellow - then couldn't find him
"look madam, you lived in the middle east - we see some arabic squigggles in your passport
you wrote a paper on al-qaeda at university
oh look you went to grad school in the States the august before 9/11
you live in london...
!
well ennis perhaps you shouldn't mind being chucked into Gitmo for a couple of weeks or two while they check out the state of your body parts..:-) after all, if you're truly innocent, you know you'll get out of there someday right?
Huh? I always thought that the majority of American Muslims were African American. That meant that black men outnumbered Arab or Persian men as American Muslims. Anyway, it's stupid to think that a terrorist is going to walk into an airport dressed up as an obvious stereotype of what Johnny Sixpack thinks a "rag head" terrorist looks like every day. Did any of the September 11 hijackers board the planes with the "towel head" look? If we were going to be such blatant profilers, wouldn't all the terrorist need then is a good Hollywood makeup kit? I'm sure an aspiring martyr would not mind going to paradise disguised as a 90 year old white woman.
Gayatri mantr is the first mantr of any in my experince of moving in non-brahmin circles and quite widely known. If people know anything like a shlok, its likely to be the Gayatri.
I know many Gayatris, but not any mantra.. If it is shown in movies (like the mantra during weddings.. (mangalyam thanthu..etc..)), I bet many people would know.. otherwise many people can't differentiate "Gayatri mantra" from any other sanskrit "swaha.." stuff.. I guess it is probably restricted to Brahmin circles..
Ennis, this is an impractical and silly idea, but what is up with using words like wing-nut? Classy.
Oh, by impractical and silly I'm referring to the separate line for Muslims thing. Like, why not just announce everything we do for security ahead of time so terrorists can work around it. Wicked smart thinking, huh?
25% of all Muslims in America are black
I saw this breakdown somewhere:
South-Central Asian : 33%
African-American: 30%
Arab: 25%
White and others: 12%
The Gayatri Mantra is very well known among all the northie Hindu families of my acquaintance, it's the only one we all know and trot out at token family pujas. All non-Brahmins.
Love the Macaca Mutiny!
Ennis, this is an impractical and silly idea, but what is up with using words like wing-nut? Classy.
I used that term to indicate that this is not an average conservative belief, but a whacky one. Wingnut is the equivalent of "Loony left". Why whacky?
Well, it throws the constitution out the window for one thing. If the US constitution is minor to somebody, that marks them as whacky in my book.
For another, it ignores all prior work on efficiency. The spokesman from the Cato Institute says that studies show this is ineffective. Former police Chief Ray Kelly stopped it at the Customs department because it didn't work.
It's also wingnutty b/c it alienates people who might have knowledge, like the informant who blew the whistle on the last London plot.
Lastly, it's wingnutty b/c its proponents have given no thought to implementation and keep waving that away as irrelevant. How can it be a security measure if you haven't thought about how to do it? That's like getting up and saying that our planes should be guarded by vampires flying outside and unicorns in the isles.
The Gayatri is ubiquitous now - whether films, or popular and new age music readily available. My mother and most of her sisters chant it every day. All non-brahmins.
OK this is more than I ever needed to know about circumcision on a Friday morning at 9:30!! I suggest a tattoo mark. If you are "with us" you get a big ass "I LOVE AMERICA" tattood on whatcha mama gave ya. If you don't have one, well you are "against us". Down down with the terrorists!!
I used that term to indicate that this is not an average conservative belief
I think its perfectly in line with the average consersative belief. By that I mean the view held by most Republicans. The average conservative view might actually be slightly to the right of this view.
If the US constitution is minor to somebody, that marks them as whacky in my book.
I am not a big fan of showing excessive deference to the US Constitution. We should be careful as to not putting the constitution on a pedestal usually reserved for books like the Koran which are deemed perfect by some and thus can never be tampered with as they contain the absolute truth.
That is why we have had over 25 amendments and then amendments to the amendments. Frankly there is a lot in the constitution which I find pretty annoying and wont mind if the constitution was amended to get rid of those things.
Ok -- are these foreskin-check partition stories really true? My parentas gave me the story, but it smells funny (!). Is there any reliable documentation on foreskin-based sectarian killing?
Ok -- are these foreskin-check partition stories really true? My parentas gave me the story, but it smells funny (!). Is there any reliable documentation on foreskin-based sectarian killing?
It still happens in India quite regularly during the Hindu-Muslim sectarian violence.
Razib - Also, 80% of American males = 120 mil no?
I never understood how female circumcision is genetic mutilation and male circumcision is not. Is the rationale deprivation of pleasure during intercourse? If that is the case then the same thing applies to men(to a lesser extent ofcourse) also right?
Also I remember reading that there is no clinical evidence to prove any kind of corelation between circumcision and rate of venereal infection.
The only cases where this is valid is when there is a reduced opportunities to wash yourself or keep clean - like in ancient times, war, poorer parts of the world etc. So, if circumsion is argued on that basis, we should probably pull out the teeth of all children to reduce chances of plaque/gingivitis and gum diesease in the future. If only there were an industry like the dental hygiene cabal solely devoted to weenie hygiene!!
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up..."
It's a good idea, Ennis, but given the number of travellers being handled, there will be frequent cock-ups, and ultimately the wrong guy will get shafted and hung out to dry.
Right now, the "aliens" (non-citizens/GCs) are subjected to "finger-print checks" while entering US.. I guess in the future we could expect "fore-skin" checks.. I imagined the picture of seeing people keeping their **** in a similar machine.. It is gross..
Beige Seige-
Circumcision is genital mutilation. Just because it doesn't totally deprive a man of sexual pleasure doesn't mean that it isn't an inhuman and unecessary procedure. It's one of those things that became accepted practice in America, and they started to justify it medically even though there is no correlation between hygiene, VD and the lack of foreskin. There is a growing anti-circumcision movement, and most educated people in the U.S. now realize that the procedure is largely useless and cruel, aside from its religious connotations.
The Seinfeld and Sex and the City episodes are excellent examples of how popular cultural perception can be completely at odds with reality. My Dad is a Internist, and when I asked him why I wasn't cut, he replied "Because I'm not a crazy fool that wants to cut part of a baby's penis off" According to him, there is no medical value to doing it, in fact it can be extremely traumatic for the child if performed later in life.
I imagined the picture of seeing people keeping their **** in a similar machine.. It is gross.
Hey don't knock it. That's about the only fun thing I get to do at work anymore.
Speaking of fun things, Anna, where's my "motherf*cking snakes on a motherf*cking plane VERSUS the macaca mutiny" Friday fifty five special edition at?
and they started to justify it medically even though there is no correlation between hygiene, VD and the lack of foreskin
lack of utility of circumcision seems to apply to modern regimes. e.g., there isn't a problem with swedes vs. americans (uncut vs. cut). but when you look at the HIV infection rates between the luo & kikiyu, or xhosa & zulu, or thai and filipino (all uncut vs. cut dyads), the difference is non-trivial. the original arguments for increased cervical cancer rates for women who were with uncut men came from data derived from muslim vs. hindu & christians in southern india i believe.
Circumcision is genital mutilation.
Incidentally, that's the exact reason why Sikhs aren't supposed to do it*, theologically-speaking.
(Okay, technically Sikh teachings are directed at everyone and not just Sikhs, but for argument's sake you know what I mean).
*Unless it's for some medical reason, obviously.
Also I remember reading that there is no clinical evidence to prove any kind of corelation between circumcision and rate of venereal infection.
Not true. See here
Dr. Bertrand Auvert - whose 2005 study found circumcision reduced the rate of infection among heterosexual South African men by 65 per cent - said the procedure is a potentially inexpensive way to save lives.
"The cost of adult male circumcision is lower than the cost of treatment of HIV infections that could have been avoided," he said
On a serious note, I don't think there's any foolproof method to identify people's religious affiliation -- you might as well try to figure out who's a Catholic and who's a Protestant based just on their appearance or their answers to supposedly pertinent questions.
People can always use false (non-Islamic) names and false passports, and really determined jihadis will either alter their appearance to remove any Islam-related identifiers or they will deliberately act/dress in certain ways to deflect suspicion (eg. as Westernised as possible). Ethnicity-based identification is also no guarantee of catching the right people, as we've all discussed previously.
But it's worthwhile trying to figure out some way to increase the likelihood of successfully identifying potential jihadis anyway, at least in order to catch out the incompetent types who may slip up somehow, along with reassuring the public in general that at least some measures are being taken in order to try to increase their safety.
This issue needs to be dealt with at the core, as we're currently debating on Pickled Politics (sorry for the plug but it is highly relevant): Remove the religious justification in the minds of the jihadis, since they're basing their actions on their interpretation of Islam. Suitable imams need to be at the forefront of this approach -- a religiously-derived problem ideally requires a religiously-based solution.
Funny, yes. But also sobering.
Actually, the Nazis used this exactly as one of the means to determine whether someone was acctually a Jew or not, and to 'catch' those who were trying to slip away. So, please don't give 'em too many ideas.
The other part of the story is that Nazi controlled areas also had Muslims so they ran into this problem of identifying who was who. If you were a Mulim (who the Nazis also did not like, but the Nazis considered Muslims to be such low-low-low-life that they were not even worth an exterminantion!)... anyhow, if you were a Muslim in the Nazi controlled areas you were required to carry a letter/a certificate from the mosque priest (Mufti/Maulvi/whatever) certifying that you were a Muslim. Well, secret documents discovered later suggest that the Grand Mufti of Istanbul (then the capital of political Islam) had issues a letter (a fatwa) to all European mosques telling them that they should issue the certificate to any Jew who wanted it so that they (Jews) coudl save their lives. Reportedly, in a few cases this led to some mosques being closed and priests being deported because they had issued fake certificates to Jews.
How the world changes!
who the Nazis also did not like, but the Nazis considered Muslims to be such low-low-low-life that they were not even worth an exterminantion
there was a bosnian muslim SS brigade. so not that "low-low-low life." and a lot of what you seem to have sounds like urban legend. turkey in world war ii was still hard core ataturkist.
Why don't we simply do like many have proposed for Israel: put pigs on every airplane. Mmmmmmm, bacon.
Why don't we simply do like many have proposed for Israel: put pigs on every airplane.
I dont think Israel can put bacon anywhere in Israel. Jews dont eat pig-meat either. Some have suggested that the Islamic prohibition on eating pigs actually comes from Judaic law.
They should have 2 lines. One for humans and one for Macacas.
Right, pigs I think are considered "unclean" (or mandated so by holy books) and not eaten by Jews and Muslims (practising).. So i wonder if bacon is used in Israel..
So i wonder if bacon is used in Israel..
the russian jews (many of whom are not jews) have started black market pig farms FYI. i have heard that some of this meat is sold as 'turkey' in tel aviv. though not jerusalem :)
The Russian Jews also put up Christmas trees. From what I have heard, there is some tension between the Sephardic/Ashkenazi Jews and the Russian Jews. Some of the Russian Jews are hardly Jewish.
Some of the Russian Jews are hardly Jewish.
you have a 'right of return' if the nazis would have rounded you up. that's a liberal standard (blood quanta = 1/4). second, many non-jewish spouses came. third, the jewish leadereship looked the other way when euro-goys came as it counterbalanced the arab increase.
The story I heard a long time ago is that Israel is the largest pork producer in the region. The law forbids pigs on the soil of Israel, so producers build platforms. I can't vouch for that. What I can tell you is that pork is sold in Israel, and even in Jerusalem (although that might be under the counter). It's called "White steak"
You're all missing the point. During the height of the bus bombings in Israel, there was a story that Egged and Dan bus lines were considering putting pig guts on buses. The theory was that a devout Moslem would not defile himself by touching pigs, so he would not be able to entering the bus. I'm suggesting that the Americans do this for aircraft - smear some pig guts on the airplane door.
smear some pig guts on the airplane door
you can violate food taboos, etc., during war if necessary.
We'd get sued by the haredim, and you know it ;) Also I don't think it would deter - the 9/11 bombers in Boston were at a strip club drinking booze the night before. What's a little pork?
More generally, I think that we misunderstand their motivations. I think they're more ethno-nationalist than purely religious, like the IRA or the Tamil Tigers. They're not as secular, but this is about more than just piety.
I think that the pork test is less reliable than the schmuck test, here.
Right, pigs I think are considered "unclean" (or mandated so by holy books) and not eaten by Jews and Muslims (practising).. So i wonder if bacon is used in Israel..
Many of the reform Jews I know eat pork. I am not 100% sure about pork in Israel (where Reform Judaism is attacked as 'illegitimate'), but when I visited, I recall kosher and non-kosher Pizza huts. BTW, the first thing one notices upon arriving in Israel (prior to the more recent influx of Russians anyway) is how brown the place is - Yemeni Jews, Indian Jews, Irani Jews, Black Jews, and, of course, Arabs, all complaining about Azkenazi hegemony :-). Also, South Asian guys can get play there. Just tell the sabras you're a Cochin Jew, they will either hug you and say "my brother!" or take you home.
they will either hug you and say "my brother!" or take you home.
but they find out you are not a cochin jew at some point....
something can be un-kosher due to the way it is prepared btw.
but they find out you are not a cochin jew at some point....
Then stay the $%^$ away from their machine guns. BTW all Israelis are conscripted at some point, and when active must carry their guns, even to movie theaters, shops, etc. It makes for a surreal atmosphere.
But I was just joking. More seriously, when in nightclubs and bars, some will indeed ask if you are jewish, but many don't care. Did I say the women are exceedingly fine?
something can be un-kosher due to the way it is prepared btw.
yes
That's not just a hug, it's also a sneaky foreskin check ;)
BTW all Israelis are conscripted at some point
quibble: not israeli arab christians and muslims (druze are, at their request).
Ikram - Like I said - there are no "clinical evidence". The study you refer to is very elementary. From what I have read, at the most it points to a possible co-relation, which could be due to by many other factors as well. Since I am not an expert, I wont denounce it, but for example I am curious about causality for example - Circumcised men are more likely to be muslim, who in turn are more likely to have fewer casual sexual partners. I believe this is the case in countries like Nigeria, where there is big difference between mulim and cristian populations in terms of aids.
The article you quoted also says these things -
Trials are underway in Africa to determine more conclusively whether the two are linked.
While former U.S. president Bill Clinton has said circumcision could have a "staggering effect" on controlling HIV, De Cock* said more research must be done before the WHO recommends circumcision as a prevention tool.
It's injudicious in public health to base major recommendations on the results of one study," De Cock told a news conference at the international AIDS gathering Thursday. "If this is recommended, we must be very, very careful that this doesn't cause harm and it's done safely."
A previous study has shown men who were circumcised did not "engage in more risky sexual behaviour,"
* snicker
Re: Gayatri mantra. What I am reading here seems to be a North/South divide. It seems anecdotally at least that average Northern Hindus are more familiar with it than the average Southie Hindu. Among Southern Hindus, it seems to be more a brahmin vs non issue.
Also, South Asian guys can get play there. Just tell the sabras you're a Cochin Jew, they will either hug you and say "my brother!" or take you home.
FINALLY! A way to exploit this mallu heritage. =D
Was at Cairns airport yesterday in Australia and was stopped for a Random Explosive test for my Hand Baggage. I waited for some time to see how Random was Random sampling or to check if i was targeted if i was South Asian (Indian). As i observed from some distance they stopped an East Asian Man, East Asian Female, White Female, White Bikkey Male. So i guess was Random Afterall
Samir,
Muslims come in all shapes and sizes so is it possible that they're stopping only Muslim passengers.
No one's linked the Slate column on male circumcision saving lives?
Circumcision makes males mean as is does women. If circumcision is healthy for men then it must be super healthy for women because they produce a ton of smegma and moisture, much more then men ever could. So why not circumcise them? The genital mutilation hipocracy of the cultures!
Notice that all nations where most men are circumcised are allso the most violent of Nations!!!!
Circumcision is for making the MD's your Doctor rich, he then also sells ther scin to burn wards to grow skin cell sheets, also sells forskins for cosmetics testing.
Forskins are a big huge business! They charge you $200 to chop it of, but if you were to recreat a true on, you would need advanced technology from Stargate's the ancients and cost billions. As a forskin produces exceptional unique pleasures, that are lost when choped!
Circumcision is ment to de nude and lessen the sextual pleasure.
Also natural men's women do not need lubricants to reduce friction.
See Sex-Lubricants are a big business only if enough men are denude of the skin!
God is not stupid, God did not make a Forskin by mistake!
That is so Cool & True!
God made eyes so you can see, but we only need one eye to see!
Shall we Circumcise one eye as it will reduce you chance of eye cance and STD's of the eye by 50%!!!
Answer, 2 eyes are for sterio vision, althout that is not as important as mono-vision over no vision.
God made 2 ears for hearing, but we only need one, so circumcise one ear off , you Bill Clinton you! As that will reduce skin cancer of the ear by 50%, and cut the chance of ear infections!
Hum I know why 2 ears are their!
God did no make the Forskin by mistake!
FORSKIN is there to protect the WOMAN from sex-Friction burns and micro tears that lead to easy infections.
FORSKIN produces anti-microbial agents that scientists are trying to synthisise to fight antibiotic resistant germs. These Forskin bio-agents fight 3 things at once fungi, bactieria and viruses. No other known body part produces such 3 level agents.
Mans benifit is also more sensitive glance, like a baby's but, or a musicians gloved hands that can feel fine texture, but a brick layer cant feel much of the finner things just like the dulled circumcided dick head.
I'm surprised no-one mentioned this, but it is fairly well documented that in Germany, pre and during WW2, Nazi thugs roaming he streets were not averse to stripping suspected Jewish males to obtain proof of ethnicity.
To all of you non muslims
it doesn't matter if you like it or not.The final line is that if you cut the foreskin off your children,then you will benefit and it's up 2 you if you want it or not this is the best option if you don't like it then it's up 2 you nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.
it's easy to disagree with Islam but if you do then you will never be happy,you will always know there is something missing in your life and that Is beliefe in Allah(God)
by the way I am Muslim (Sunni)
and Also I want to say thanks to all of that commented.
