dude, i saw the names, and i wuz like, "what kind of brown last name is 'shallow' anyhow." LOL.

Parvati Shallow? It's time to play...HALF-DESI or HIPPIE PARENTS?

oh, Sundra Oakley (black team member on survivor) also has a desi connection. According to IMDB she played "Vij" in the ABCD film Indian Cowboy.

24 has already had its share of 2nd gen actors, Jonathan Ahdout (House of Sand and Fog), Kiran Rao, and others, but TV in the "film world" is stability & more importantly $$.

Parvati Shallow? It's time to play...HALF-DESI or HIPPIE PARENTS?

welcome to my life!

Will reality tv ever just go away?

Ok people it's "Pavarti" not "Parvati". By the way is Pavarti an Indian name. Never heard of it.

Saw a promo somewhere for the tv series "Heroes"... they have a desi actor with the Naveen Andrews "Lost" look .

My money's on Hippie parents - her bio says she grew up on a commune. But what kind of name is "Shallow" for any ethnicity? Names aside, I wish her well, she has amazing upper arms and she's a boxer, and she could undoubtedly kick all our kundis.

(And this blog is pretty much the main way I learn about anything on teevee.)

Pavarti is a kind of cheese: paneer crossed with Havarti. J/K.

MSNBC coverage of Survivor:The Segregated Season

Razib, there's always "Screwala", na?

Survivor gets jumped in a Macaca Mutiny ala Jamestown style!

Pavarti is a kind of cheese: paneer crossed with Havarti.

I hope that neither the haters nor the do-gooders go declaring a new "war on Pavarti" now....

Pavarti is a kind of cheese: paneer crossed with Havarti.

P.S. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but many people (in America) don't consider South Asians to be "real" Asians. At least in my experience.

P.S. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but many people (in America) don't consider South Asians to be "real" Asians. At least in my experience.

i think this is part of it. i suspect that the producers mooted this, and probably dismissed mixing up south asians in the 'asian' group to avoid controversy or confusion from those who would question this.

well even though it's pavarti not parvati i still think there might be at least one desi on survivor. Sundra Oakley could be trini or guyanese or half-desi. Black actors usually don't get cast by ABD directors to play desis. That would be like Spike Lee casting Sheetal Sheth to play Condoleeza Rice.

oh, joy! I get to link to Manish's fab-o site! At last!

www.indiansareasian.com

our very own mountain-climbing, airplane-flying, bear-wrangling abhi would be the logical candidate. can we start a Draft Abhi for Survivor campaign?

Ok people it's "Pavarti" not "Parvati". By the way is Pavarti an Indian name. Never heard of it.

I think it is Parvati.. look at her profile

This is gonna be unfortunate.

oh, joy! I get to link to Manish's fab-o site! At last! www.indiansareasian.com

as one who feels that her desi crush potential was seriously hampered by far too few cute brown boys on the tv while growing up, i'd like to say that i'm encouraged by the promise of Kal Pen and Sendhil Ramamurthy appearing on my telly. ps.(Thanks for the link Vikram -- Ramamurthy? one word:hubba sedond word:hubba)

I second yola. That link made me "Hi" my computer. You know- I clicked. saw the photo. Let out a breathy, "Hi..." Giggled. You know...Hi!

Anyways, Abhi's passion has been to be on Jeapordy all these years, but I will spend his last few months of living in LA dragging him to survivor-like reality show auditions. Consider it done, and a sacrifce I make on behalf of the mutiny.

Wow, this is insulting.

But whatever. It's not like I'll be watching "Survivor" anyway.

Damn... there are already leaked photos online. Check it out...
Survivor Cook Islands: A Day at the Races

I for one find it hard to imagine that Kal Penn will be a convincing maybe-terrorist. The guy just projects casualness and laid-back goodwill.

Incidentally, if you reverse "024," you get "420." (A bit of an in-joke, that -- and not a desi one.)

In general, I find "24" a little too intense for my television timepass needs. I still prefer "Lost," or indeed, "Desperate Housewives," though I am so not the demographic they are going for.

Indians are perfect for survivor. Everyone else would be starving for food while the Indians are stuffed on green and pepperment leaves and makeshift paan for dessert.

Am I the only one who wishes Kal Penn has stuck with his real name?

Incidentally, if you reverse "024," you get "420." (A bit of an in-joke, that -- and not a desi one.)

*cough* Prof, you're not supposed to know that.

Anyway, 420 is also the section of the Indian Penal Code (a most delightful document, by the way) that deals with delivery fraud. As such, "420" is sometimes used as a shorthand for shysters.

Now, what I'm curious about is whether you can commit 420 while using 420.

Only Agastya knows for sure.

I haven't watched Survivor since the 2nd season, but it seems a horrible idea to group people by race and have them compete that way. This is going to bring out the worst in people (and I'm not talking about the contestants). Is this a sign of a growing sense of 'whiteness' that might be developing in this country? We're all in trouble if that happens.

Is this a sign of a growing sense of 'whiteness' that might be developing in this country?

no, it is a ratings stunt since survivor's franchise is getting stale. this is "jumping the shark." but yes, white consciousness will rise and the % of minorities increases and they feel less secure, and, race-talk starts to become normative.

So, where are they sticking desis, if any? Yes, we know razib's classification, but where would producers of Survivor put desis?

Senor Kobayashi - your 420 references help me make that much more sense on your various posts here! ;-)) JK!!

Pass it on, sahib...

As for Razib, perhaps he needs some 420 hookup (or a real live woman - not sure which will do more good). It could help him escape his computer and be a little less clinical/analytical about all this drama. ;-)))

By the way, this Survivor Stunt really is nauseating..

I'll boycott:) Somehoww, somewayyy, I'll not watch Survivor. Ever. Ma kasam.

by the way; yes, indiansareasians website is awesome:)

Am I the only one who wishes Kal Penn has stuck with his real name?

No. Whenever I read his name, I think, "Kal Penn, Aaj Columbia, aur Kal Brown!" From BA to PhD in three easy Ivy steps!

er...

Mr. Kobyashi, I'd be as surprised as you if I didn't spend one quarter 420ing it up with one of my profs. Although, it would still be weird to think of Amardeep skipping class on 420.

More on topic, I'm an "API" activist and I've always asserted to everyone that South Asians are Asians too, but the more I learn about the history of what is called "Asian-American activism" the more I realize that we have little, if any, place in it. At this point, I feel like I'm fighting on behalf a people who don't even recognize me as part of their own (because most don't unless they think really hard about it, or are forced to compromise). The word "Asian" in America means East and Southeast Asian, and their struggle has a whole different flavor from our desi one. I think there should be South Asian American representation on Survivor's "race war", but I don't know where we fit. The American understanding of Asian simply doesn't include us. On what grounds would we force our way into the American consciousness of Asians? Even Orientalism really refers to the Western European imagination of the Middle East and South Asia. Said explicitly points out that the American fascination with East Asia, however similar, is foundationally different. So what are our points of solidarity? Is anyone going to buy it? I doubt it, because I've tried, and if Asians themselves don't believe it, then why should white America?

BTW, I heart Taz. Welcome back homie. We have now been to at least 3 events at the same time without properly meeting (Mos Def show at USC, Artwallah, and Tofu Festival, if you ended up going). I'll go to the next LA meet up just to finally say hi :)

There is no doubt that it is absurd to lump south asians and east asians together. East asians actually find it insulting.

Am I the only one who wishes Kal Penn has stuck with his real name?

No. Whenever I read his name, I think, "Kal Penn, Aaj Columbia, aur Kal Brown!" From BA to PhD in three easy Ivy steps!

There is no doubt that it is absurd to lump south asians and east asians together. East asians actually find it insulting.

I refuse to check "Asian/Pacific Islander" on forms, and choose to check "other" and specify "South Asian" instead. This is not because I don't want to be considered Asian, or think it's insulting, on the contrary in fact. However, in the States, I feel like API doesn't apply to me, and if it doesn't there needs to be another section on all those forms. Damn it. :)

I know a lot of things I learned in public school were wrong, but last time I checked, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc were all part of Asia, yes? Technically, I mean. What's insulting about that?

we're black & hairy :)

I refuse to check "Asian/Pacific Islander" on forms, and choose to check "other" and specify "South Asian" instead. This is not because I don't want to be considered Asian, or think it's insulting, on the contrary in fact. However, in the States, I feel like API doesn't apply to me, and if it doesn't there needs to be another section on all those forms. Damn it. :)

there are contract set asides for affirmative on gov. bids, etc., which asian americans are part of. my understanding is that one of the pushes for why south asians (asian indian) was merged with asian american is so that they can get loans, etc. which were allocated to this group. some middle eastern americans now don't want to be placed in the white category because they would like to get in on the action. i believe armenians in southern california have been officially recognized as non-white so that they get full access.

specifically about armenians: they have been recognized by the local counties/cities. not the feds. i believe some southeast asians in california (cambodians, hmong, etc.) are working to not get counted as asian for admission to the UC system.

"There is no doubt that it is absurd to lump south asians and east asians together. East asians actually find it insulting."

Didn't someone post a story about how kids in "eastern" asia feel about "brown" asians? (They look funny, etc) and vice-versa? I thought I recalled that from not too long.

Sigh.... geographically desis have ancestral roots from Asia, but perhaps not visibly asian, politically asian, or socially "asian" or even nationally asian- which makes it all very confusing to most. And then there's the U.K. asian concept versus the N.A. asian concept, which further adds to the problem. And don't even try to put desis in the caucasian or the black (props Razib!) group, because you'll find protests from all corners. Whatevs! This has all been debated to death.

I can only hope that this show (a poor/invalid example of a social science experiment in this case) manages to surprise rather than confirm people's ideas.

There is no doubt that it is absurd to lump south asians and east asians together. East asians actually find it insulting.

Afghans (Pashtuns, Aimaqs, Hazars, Farsiwans, etc) also do not appreciate being lumped together with south Asians (or Arabs), for some reason. An Afghan would not take being mistaken for a Desi/Pakistani very lightly. Trust me. I have even detected some disdain among Afghans when they speak of India. And it's true, most Afghans don't look much people in the Punjab.

Of course. Like the east asians, the west asians (afghans, persians, turks etc) also tend to look with disdain and even contempt at those "fellow asians" from east of the Indus. Which is why it is pathetic to see indians running around trying to seek "asian solidarity".

Maybe its better to strive for an Indian Ocean Rim Bloc.

Maybe its better to strive for an Indian Ocean Rim Bloc.

better yet, absorb the AU!

I'm of West Asian (Not an Arab and Not Persian tho) ancestry but people think I look Indian. It doesn't bother me at all, not in the least. Maybe cuz I'm diggin' the "Indian appearance" anyway. And I'm not necessarily taken for northwest Indian either. And I'm luvin' how Indian chicks are lookin' too:) I just don't like to look at the women too much though.;)

An Afghan would not take being mistaken for a Desi/Pakistani very lightly. Trust me.

I dont take being mistaken for an Afghan lightly either. Why would anyone want to be mistaken for an afghan?

I have even detected some disdain among Afghans when they speak of India

Why? Its not India's fault that Afghans still live like cavemen from the Mesolithic era.

the afghans will be sorry to be left out of the pan-indian ocean-AU free trade zone!

There is no doubt that it is absurd to lump south asians and east asians together. East asians actually find it insulting.

First of all- don't mark other! Mark Asian American; As someone that works on research for South Asians within the framework of the larger Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) movement. I've been playing with data all summer, and it would really help me if you didn't do that. Don't worry, I'll blog about my research when it's done next month- you'll see...

Second, along those lines- I just bought this shirt.

Third, interesting conversation- are south asians asian americans? An age old conversation when you do the work that shruti and I do, and I went to a conference on it back in 2003. Yes, I am a South Asian American activist, but I feel that I am more powerful, and there are more resources out there to help me if done in the scope of AAPI, despite how hard it is to get other SAA, or East Asians to recognize as as a part of that movement. I've been working in pan-Asian organizations all summer in an attempt to learn and make sure that the resources in the larger movement is also inclusive of being desi... But I too felt that twinge of "here we go, taking one step back in the trying to include South Asian in the Pan Asian identitity perspective in TV again."

Shruti, are you sure we haven't met already? There seems to be too many missed opportunities here.

LOL. the asian american association at berkeley. two white d00ds, no brownz :) i did a survey a few years ago of wedding registries where i queried brown surnames i knew (mostly bengali and gujarati, e.g., chatterjee & patel), and i saw no tendency of brownz + non-brown asianz to mate with greater than random frequency.

(uh, sorry for being overly analytic & clinical, too linear and western for some folk i suppose :=)

Its not India's fault that Afghans still live like cavemen from the Mesolithic era.

Don't say these thing about the Afghans please. I could say a lot about the way people live in the Indian gutters but i'll refrain. Thank you for your cooperation.

'There are going to be people looking for stereotypes: Will this tribe be smarter than this tribe, or will this tribe be faster than this tribe?' says Probst. 'That's why I think it's fun. But five people on a tribe do not represent an entire ethnic group.'

But we know our viewers aren't going to really consider this, and we're not going to put up a disclaimer to this effect on our show, so here's to marketing racist stereotypes! Bottoms up!

Seriously: if five people on a tribe don't represent an entire ethnic group, then what the fuck is the point of this whole exercise?

If you know it, then don't do it!

Which is why it is pathetic to see indians running around trying to seek "asian solidarity".

Maybe its better to strive for an Indian Ocean Rim Bloc.

Haha, all this White/Asian fit debate. Let's just have brown solidarity and claim Hispanic, yo.

Don't say these thing about the Afghans please. I could say a lot about the way people live in the Indian gutters but i'll refrain. Thank you for your cooperation.

Think you just did. thank you.

Taz (#51) GREAT SHIRT!

Mark Asian American.

It's pretty interesting that African American and African are in the same category, but Asian American and Asian are not. Also, there is no way to figure out how this is defined. If I were an ethnic-Indian whose grandparents lived in Kenya and whose parents were born and raised in Kenya, and I was born and raised in America, what does that make me? Asian American? African American?

Don't worry, I'll blog about my research when it's done next month- you'll see...

In the US, don't you choose your own racial classification for official purposes. (Unlike in South Africa, where the gvt decided your race using 'straightness of hair' etc). Why not just call yourself 'other'.

(Question: In the UK, Asian means Desi, and Chinese aren't Asian. In the US, its the opposite. What about Australia, Canada, NZ? France?)

Afghanistan joined SAARC a few years ago, and want to be part of the SAARC free trade zone. Apparently, Indian-educated Karzai thinks he's South Asian. And the masses of Afghan refugees in Karachi (some living in the gutters!) seem to function just fine in a South Asian environment.

As someone who is also involved in Asian American activism, I find it particularly annoying that people don't include South Asians with Asian Americans. I have had people tell me that India is not a part of Asia - umm, can we go back to 2nd grade geography for a moment here?

I fully understand that there are differences between the largely defined groups of East Asians and South Asians - but what group defined by an outside authority DOES make sense? Arguably, there are just as many differences among East Asians as there are between these two large groups. The point is, there are huge similarities (immigration patterns, family situations, cultural values), enough so that it would be to South Asian Americans' benefit to ally themselves with other Asian Americans.

I know that many people in the South Asian community are reluctant to see a connection to other Asian Americans (especially among the earlier/older generations), but I see that as a non-progressive way of looking at things. We are a very very small minority in this country, and it's the sheer truth that there is strength in numbers.

Arguably, there are just as many differences among East Asians as there are between these two large groups.

i agree with your general point, but anyone arguing this point is really r*tarded :)

Afghans (Pashtuns, Aimaqs, Hazars, Farsiwans, etc) also do not appreciate being lumped together with south Asians (or Arabs), for some reason. An Afghan would not take being mistaken for a Desi/Pakistani very lightly. Trust me. I have even detected some disdain among Afghans when they speak of India. And it's true, most Afghans don't look much people in the Punjab.

lol. Look at some of the older threads on Sepiamutiny, most Indians don't like being lumped in with other South Asians, and Pakistanis think they are a part of Central Asia, and Bangladeshi Khans think they are Pashtuns. Hindus, Sikh and Christian desis really hate being mistaken for Arab, Central Asian or Muslim, particularly when boarding airplanes. Telegus hate being lumped in with Tamils. Punjabi Khatris hate being lumped in with other Punjabis.

I hate being lumped in with all the other humans. I think I'm a higher life form. Geez, get over yourselves. You all sound like a bunch of idiots. This is why some parts of the world are so shitty.

LOL, WeeWee! I agree with RS Khan, Turd, superbrown, & WeeWee. RS Khan, regarding your comment against Turd... Turd said that because some people don't take lightly these mere "facts" of what is basically RACISM or ethnocentrism. There are black men who love light, non-black women. So what! It's basically stupid to be discussing this ridiculousness. We KNOW there are Asians who don't like other Asians. That is why Asians try to find solidarity with all kinds of different Asians. This ethnocentrism happens everywhere. In Europe. In North Asia. In South America and so forth! My boyfriend's white and he thinks all Indians and Middle Easterners look alike. And you know what my response was? "You're right!" Because you know what, it's foolish to be "distinguishing" the "differences" based on ethnic identity. It's interesting to learn about the history of our ethnic differences but I believe alot of that history is misconstrued. And besides, as an Indian, I find more in common with a Korean or Chinese person because alot of our traditions and old values are similar, i.e. marriage, education, home life, parental strictness, etc. I can tell you, middle easterners are always striking up a conversation with me and keep telling me that I don't look Indian because of my white looking facial features and fair skin. I've gotten marriage proposals from Isreali Jewish men. I mean this "disdain" can be forgotten. It's really hidden. But really it can be forgotten.

(speaking as an afghan) ....
Mira,

Of course some ppl (everywhere) are racist assholes, but like someone said above, if ppl haven't each reached the basic comprehension of 2nd geography - but how can you forget ignorance?

if you forget it, then that's only going to lead to the spread of more ignorant assumptions. & its the frustration of those "others" mistaken classified - that leads to a shortness of temper and an inability to correct politely - because if you're proud of who you are, you want others (esp your friends, classmates, co-workers, etc) to get it right.

oh and here"

And besides, as an Indian, I find more in common with a Korean or Chinese person because alot of our traditions and old values are similar, i.e. marriage, education, home life, parental strictness, etc

I agree completely and consider this across the board for all of asia.

we have alot of similarities - and that's something that ignorance works to destroy. A united asian front would be the start of a new age away from eurocentricism and alot of ppl who maintain this structure wouldn't want that to happen.