Abhi!! What about Portland, Oregon meetup? I've been whining about the lack of one for ages!

Sorry, dude a four hour layover at the airport wasn't long enough. Portland looked really cool from the sky though. Everyone says is the newest best place to live. Maybe we should have a SM meet-up/climb up Mt. Hood type exursion. :)

Why don’t more minorities visit our National Parks?

I actually thought that visiting National Parks was a favorite desi activity. In particular a FOBy desi acitivity, second only to visiting Wal-Mart.

y, we do live & breath sir. funny about the "sikh," sometimes when i'm not in oregon i see a brown turbaned dude, and i'm like, "oh, not one of those new agey converts?"

i've done the whole big sky thing

There are many of us who would never consider living in some cities or states based only upon our preconceived notions of what racial attitudes there must be like, regardless of the objective reality. Not at that restaurant nor at any other time during my trip was I made to feel uncomfortable. I was uneasy quite often though, mostly because of my own perceptions (and a seven day long beard that made me look menacing to myself).

abhi, just remember two things

1) these areas have large native american populations. if you were chinese or black you might have gotten more looks, but perhaps they thought you were off the rez? :)

2) there are new and large latino populations in some of these areas. e.g., the fruit country of southwestern idaho

Interesting... So based on your anthropological you are saying that you think the white tribe will win Survivor and the asian team will be second...?

:-D (& ducking)

Time for an LA meet up now that you are back!

It was a Sikh man with a long flowing beard and an unusually large turban who I spotted in the TSA security line. Upon closer inspection however, two things became clear. First, the man was white and not desi. Second, he was a TSA screener and not a passenger.

I am not kidding. The biggest subcontractor for Department of Homeland Security is an Arizona-based Sikh community. They are most white Sikhs and run security company. New York Times did a front page 2 years ago.

They are very successful in getting the contracts.

For the past week I have been absent from this website while on an anthropological excursion for SM (like anyone but my monkey assistants even noticed).

I thought you'd met someone at that wedding...

For the past week I have been absent from this website while on an anthropological excursion for SM (like anyone but my monkey assistants even noticed).

Dude, I like totally noticed. The prof is MIA too.

Anyway, desis in general just don't do the outdoorsy thing. I know I get extra fobby when I first go into wilderness, but after a couple of hours, I'm right at home and I always think to myself it's such a shame we dismiss camping and other nature excursions as a "white thing".

Here's what we all gotta do: get nekkid. Or as close to it as we can. From my experience, when most people of color go into the wilderness, they have no concept of what the natural life is like and they just look and feel so awkward and out of place in their spiffy urban gear. We gotta learn to let loose first, Thoreau style.

Anyway, desis in general just don't do the outdoorsy thing.

i think that's a total load of bullsh*t (speaking as a northwestern brown, we spend as much time outdoors as our white neighbors). the problem, in the USA, is that too many brown people live in places like new jersey, where the outdoors sux. and what's all that crap about hinduism & nature?

We gotta learn to let loose first, Thoreau style.

*shudder*

I've never actually seen a picture of Thoreau, but I'm pretty sure that if I had, I wouldn't want an image of him naked (or getting loose).

But my family did go camping a whole hell of a lot when I was a kid.

Why don’t more minorities visit our National Parks?

Ok, so they need to get out of town for the weekend first. We don't all live in Oregon.

what's all that crap about hinduism & nature?

I dunno.

True. The outdoors activities like beaches, hiking, camping, boating, mountain climbing etc are foreign to most desis. Whites tend to really love the outdoors. Good for them.

I've never actually seen a picture of Thoreau, but I'm pretty sure that if I had, I wouldn't want an image of him naked (or getting loose).

He was an ugly mofo actually. And I have lots of issues with his philosophy, but I just meant desis need to loosen up. Besides, you know aunties, uncles and fobs wouldn't get naked anyway, and I think the rest of us are pretty hot.

As a grad student, I interacted with a lot of american students (both grad and undergrad). I was surprised to learn that most of them had been to very few cities and national parks etc. On the contrary, most of the desi grad students had 'religiosuly' visited the prominent national/state parks and major cities by the end of their grad studies.
A few "patel points" that almost every FOB visits are:
Niagara Falls, Grand Canyon, Great Smoky Mountains, New York, California, Florida

Anyway, desis in general just don't do the outdoorsy thing.

I live in an area where there are 30,000+ people (Lefrak City, Jackson Heights, Queens) per Sq mi -- 30,000 too many IMO. It's not nice outdoors when I see other people. I wish there were forests and mountains here. {"scripts"}

A few "patel points" that almost every FOB visits are: Niagara Falls, Grand Canyon, Great Smoky Mountains, New York, California, Florida

Yeah, but those are touristy places, which is why I assume every fob visits them. Would desis get online and search specifically for, say, the last remaining freshwater lake in Southern California? Or a campsite in a north/northwest location with the expectation of finding the perfect place for the annual family camping trip?

shruti,

you are describing my parents, but none of their children. i have 3 siblings, and all of them exhibit the same interests in the outdoors as i do, as do our white peers. perhaps there is something about national brown culture i don't understand or know about, but the the northwest brownz i know are not different. we live in a beautiful part of the country, and our soul is not blind to it. and yes, i do research the best camp sites around waldo lake (one of the purest lakes in the world).

Besides, you know aunties, uncles and fobs wouldn't get naked anyway, and I think the rest of us are pretty hot.

I went on a nekkid hike once. I mean, I wasn't nekkid, but it was a naked hiking trail in the middle the desert hiking down to a hot spring, and about 75% of the hikers were some kind of nekkid. It was weird, because I wasn't warned before the hike. Aaaand I saw no desis except for the two girls that came with me.

I think I've been scarred because I haven't been hiking since.

It's late, I should not be posting now. Who knows what I'll say this late...

Yeah, but those are touristy places.... Would desis get online and search specifically for, say, the last remaining freshwater lake in Southern California?

From my personal experience, I feel that desis start with the well-known tourist destinations....mostly major cities, some major national parks (and some closeby state parks). After a while they realize that most of the cities are similar..not a whole lot to see. Once they get a feel for the "great american outdoors", they plan week long trips to far off..and distant parks.
You'll usually find www.nps.gov in their bookmarks :)
Almost all my desi friends (most of whom have been in the US for 5-6 years) have had more camping/hiking trips than any other people I know (including white americans).

Abhi,

For the past week I have been absent from this website while on an anthropological excursion for SM (like anyone but my monkey assistants even noticed).

Some of us noticed, man, trust me ;)

Why don’t more minorities visit our National Parks?

"Hill-trekking" group excursions are quite popular back in India. I'd assumed that desis in the US would have continued the tradition (as some commenters here have just confirmed).

It was a Sikh man with a long flowing beard and an unusually large turban who I spotted in the TSA security line. Upon closer inspection however, two things became clear. First, the man was white and not desi.

Some of these guys run the Sikhnet website too. They do a great job -- nice people, down-to-earth, and as moderators of the discussion forum they're "firm but fair" (no pun intended).

I think they're based in New Mexico and are allied to the late Yogi Bhajan's organisation.

Don't know about other desis, but hiking is a big favourite in this family. We always manage to take at least one excursion when we're on a holiday anywhere. Last year we were camping in Canada and the parents really loved it.(Unfortunately the freezing temperatures at night diminished the enjoyment greatly.) Anyway, being a Biology undergrad student hiking & camping is almost a must, especially if one is to specialise in the field of Ecology. Since the course began a year ago I've come to appreciate increasingly being close to nature.

Though, I have no idea why other desis don't feel the same way. Really no clue, since Hinduism is pretty eco-friendly? (The same for why most desis don't keep pets?)

I am not kidding. The biggest subcontractor for Department of Homeland Security is an Arizona-based Sikh community. They are most white Sikhs and run security company. New York Times did a front page 2 years ago.

They are very successful in getting the contracts.

Yup, you're thinking of Akal Security. I'm not entirely sure how to feel about this: Sikhism and government security subcontracting may seem like strange bedfellows, but the two have some sort of precedent.

Indians visiting national parks usually is limited to parking at scenic lookouts and taking pictures. Whites, especially anglosaxons, are currently the most adventurous race.

my family and i have been to yosemite.. sequoia...and yellowstone... did the picture/scenic/eating out of yogurt dabas aka: 'picnic' :)

i chuckled when i read that the anglosaxons are the more adventurous race... why? because when my brother goes snowboarding around the slopes of north america, he says he doesn't see many others out there on the black diamond runways... or when we all go skiing, it's sometimes looked upon as somewhat 'non-indian' by friends of ours... but, when he was close to breaking a clavicle and injured himself, i chided him and said 'brown people belong on the ground, not on the slopes' (all in jest, but indians aren't the sporty type--heck look at the indian winter olympic team...)

Hinduism is pretty eco-friendly? (The same for why most desis don't keep pets?)

we were only allowed to have vegetarian pets.. so we had birds..but according to my fathers theory, we shouldn't bind a bird to the cage.. like binding it's soul or karma...(don't ask, his theory).. so we let our birds roam freely in the house... a bit messy at times..but all worthwhile in the end... good, fun, enjoyable and happy memories...

Yeah, I was taught as well not to keep birds in a cage. We don't keep pets though 'cause my dad and my sister are allergic.

Interesting thread Abhi..

I first camped courtesy my husband and it was quite fun. We were in the Big Sur in California and the sights etc were divine. Till then, my idea of doing something outdoors was walking at the beach. We camped across the country last year and I am a changed woman now!

Nevertheless, some of our relatives think that we're psycho since we 'pay money to sleep outdoors'.

As for hiking...Sriram will vouch that the four of us were just about the only 'desi' hikers in great falls on sunday...

"Hill-trekking" group excursions are quite popular back in India. I'd assumed that desis in the US would have continued the tradition (as some commenters here have just confirmed).

It all boils down to weather the Desi in question is a Wiper or a Washer. Camping can be tricky for the Washer; whilst Wipers address the (t)issue with panache. However, within every Washer, there lies a Wiper; but, like the sculptor chipping away at a block of granite to reveal the Angel, he has to persevere until he masters the art of wiping and his body and mind accepts it. Open minded, pluralistic, Washers can embrace wiping and take on the great outdoors with confidence and purpose.
Peace

Yeah Abhi good to have you back.

Funny thing - I tend to do the same thing when I travel through small towns on the prairies. I do know that in almost every small town in Alberta, there is a Chinese restaurant run by the only Chinese family in the town. For desis I think the correlation is less with business/entrepeneurship and more to do with the engineering industry. As you travel north, there are few if any desis past Edmonton, until you hit the great tar sands of Fort McMurray, where armies of desi engineers extract black gold from the slimy mud (kinda like a modern day gold rush, na?) The same is true as you travel south - past the Oil city of Calgary. So in Alberta desi concerntration varies North/South.

British Columbia is another story. I drove to Vancouver last month and kept a running tab. As you travel West, the numbers decline until you hit the farming community of Golden and then increase further as you travel into the Okinagan (like a Canadian Napa), where Punjabi farmers have built up some of the richest orchards/vineyards in the country. Then on the way to Vancouver, we hit apna Surrey. So in BC its like a slope with a positive gradient as we move West.

There are, of course, the occasional anomalies - like the Malayalee family I found in Banff and the Punjabi motel owner in Kamloops where I spent the night on my way out West.

Why don’t more minorities visit our National Parks?

Ok lets see, in the last year i've been to probably a dozen national and state parks throught the US. An in all of them, ranging from the Alaska Seward Exit Glacier park, Napali Coast Trail in Kuaui, Muir Woods-California, Death Valley-California, Yosemite Valley-California, Antelope Island, Utah...there has always been some free range Desis wandering the paved and pre-layed trails and designated Scenic Overlooks. Desis love to visit and explore, hence part of the reason why they left the Indian sub-continent years ago...to explore new lands and new opportunity around the world.

The love of the outdoors, is essentially an innate desire that is easily suppressed by other modern-world motivations we take up.

OUtdoors is more than just hiking, camping in our national parks....its everything under the sun and moon- from doing nothing laying on the beach, or just pondering whiile strolling in the desert, or surfing 5-6ft rollers off the coast Oahu, reading a book in Central Park, or canoing thru mosquito infested creeks in Texas. Eveyones perception of doing 'outdoorsy' activities is based on their level of comfort and expreience with their surroundings.

Everyone says is the newest best place to live.

Depending which surveys/studies you read, it's generally cities in Boulder-Denver & suburbs that rank consistantly tops in best places to live. And to think you didn't even detour down here to say hi...hmph.

Speaking of Desis visiting National parks and monuments- Niagara Falls by far has turned into a sort of a religious pigrimage for Desis. Every Desi and their families in Midwest and East coast have visited Niagara atleast once. It can be included among Banaras, Kedarnath, Badrinath as a "must visit" for all the senior citizens who visit their kids in US and Canada ( speaking from a Sanatana Dharma or Hindu point of view :-)). There are cheap desi dhabas every corner selling vegetarian fares with sawdust thickened gravies. Desi tourists outnumber other tourists 6:4.

There is a tendency among desis (mostly 2-geners) to specifically ask the question - "Why don't desis go for camping etc" ..'cos they perceive it to be inherently a 'whitie thing'.
FOBs don't have this pre-concieved notion..and therefore they happily camp around at different places...without ever thinking that they're doing something which is meant for members higher up in the food-chain (read: whites).

Abhi/brown_fob,

> Why don’t more minorities visit our National Parks?
> Hinduism is pretty eco-friendly? (The same for why most desis don't keep pets?)

Oh yeah, I remember noting the exact same thing about the relative numbers of desis, Caucasians and African Americans that you see in National Parks. If memory and my unscientific sample size is any indication, there are more desis in *absolute numbers* than African-Americans out there in the parks, and this is somewhat out of whack with their number in the general population.

Now, this might be getting a little scientistic, but I think it is reasonable to assume that there are cultural phenomena at work. The joy of the great outdoors is probably much more a part of the mainstream culture (yo Sierra Club, yo Thoreau) than it is of urban cultures, but I don't think Hinduism as such is part of the reason. I don't think desis are flocking to the great outdoors because of any intrinsic naturistic instinct in their belief system. It is not like we are rushing to see the trees because Krishna died under the peepal tree or because people keep getting married to trees in some remote village somewhere sometimes somehow or things of that sort. I remember reading something about babies preferring photographs of the savannah over photographs of urban settings(?), and I totally think that this stuff is hard-wired. And even if it is cultural, it is probably more about some grad student who was making 600 bucks a month and paying 350 bucks for rent, and deciding to do a vacation in the national parks when she was a student, than it is about Krishna and the peepal tree.

Anyways, for the the Bay Areans out here, check out da hikes of da luvmonkey (who happens to be desi btw -- no conclusions from that, please). Some nice hikes they were.

^^ Desi Dude From Austin, that second quote was mine, not brown_fob's...

I had an awkward/similar experience yesterday on a flight from san diego to dc. on the way into boarding the plan, some dude behind me asked me randomly if I wanted to move up and sit next to my mother. I nervously looked around searching for my mother, breaking out into a cold sweat thinking that by some horrible stroke of bad luck my mother was also on this plane and now I'd have to explain why I was hung over from a weekend long binge when I told her I was going to SD for, uh, work. I looked ahead, only to see an old woman in a salwaar kameez. Yah, dude, okay, I get it...I'm indian, she's indian...very good.

You are right, Meena. I was talking to brown_fob just because of the general flavor of his comments. And you definitely might have a point about desis, religion and pets.

There is a tendency among desis (mostly 2-geners) to specifically ask the question - "Why don't desis go for camping etc" ..'cos they perceive it to be inherently a 'whitie thing'.

is this true??? i'm not hooked in the "brown" american culture, so are you trying to say that the great outdoors is perceived to be a "white thing" by normative 2nd gen culture?

if so, brown american culture sucks.

yes, black and latino americans underutilize the national park system. but they are not affluent. there are cultural stereotypes which i've heard mooted (e.g., "black folk just don't like the outdoors"), but these two groups do not have an economic profile that is similar to upper-middle-class whites. outdoor sports and travel is not always the cheapest. what excuse do we have? we want to stay out of the sun so we'll be fair?

we want to stay out of the sun so we'll be fair?

youve been outdoors too much. now we can never get you married off to a nice indian boy. FOR SHAME! FOR SHAME! you will be *GASP* 26 and unmarried! YOU WILL BRING SHAME ON YOUR FAMILY!

sorry about the vehemance of the last comment. mebee itz my northwestern biases coming through. i don't think anything has disturbed me about the brown sub-culture more than this assertion that outdoor recreation is a "white thing." i think all amerians need to experience nature more, i think it would make us a happier and more fullfilled nation.

LOL Cliff... I'm heading to niagara falls with family in a couple of hours... figured it's time for a tirth yatra... i'll keep an eye out for the cheap roadside dhabas and avoid the gravies!

and as per indians and camping, i've observed that the ones who don't go camping mostly have either a fear of the outdoors or like to be more 'comfortable' during a vacation (ie lets get a hotel/motel/inn, why sleep on the floor)... but it doesn't mean they don't like nature or hiking etc, they just want a personal bathroom and a bed at the end of the day. there are plenty of 'white' people that would think the same.

i don't go camping as often as i'd like... but i have never seen it as a 'white' thing, it's just that pretty much all of my girl friends are too scared of bugs and i don't want to get stuck with the boys only.

sorry about the vehemance of the last comment. mebee itz my northwestern biases coming through.
I kind of laughed it off. Did not Gogol Ganguli himself spend many, many joyful weekends in the woods with his gf and parents?

. now we can never get you married off to a nice indian boy

didn't know indians were so into gay marriage. i don't swing that way FYI.

didn't know indians were so into gay marriage. i don't swing that way FYI.

oh...i didnt mean you. i just meant a hypothetical indian girl. I think desis wouldnt mind a gay marriage, as long as it is with a nice indian boy of the same caste.

wilderness is for monkeys. i dont understand why anyone would go into the jungle and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, deerflies, blackflies, ticks etc etc. and then there's lyme diseases, rocky mountain fever, west nile, mad baboon virus etc.

find me a shaded corner and pour me a cold lassi any day.

Here's what we all gotta do: get nekkid. Or as close to it as we can.

Words to live by.

A few "patel points" that almost every FOB visits are: Niagara Falls, Grand Canyon, Great Smoky Mountains, New York, California, Florida

Brown_fob,
You are correct in that it is more common to see "FOBs" in the national parks than second generation. This has been my experience as well.

Speaking of Desis visiting National parks and monuments- Niagara Falls by far has turned into a sort of a religious pigrimage for Desis.

Ain't that the truth!

Depending which surveys/studies you read, it's generally cities in Boulder-Denver & suburbs that rank consistantly tops in best places to live. And to think you didn't even detour down here to say hi...hmph.

I lived in Boulder for two years. That was enough :)

We still haven't had an SM reader from one of those states leave a comment.

i dont understand why anyone would go into the jungle and be eaten alive by mosquitoes, deerflies, blackflies, ticks etc etc. and then there's lyme diseases, rocky mountain fever, west nile, mad baboon virus etc.

bingo. the western (US) that is aren't nearly as nasty as this. where do you go camping? the bayous of louisiana?

"bingo. the western (US) that is aren't nearly as nasty as this. where do you go camping? the bayous of louisiana?"

In Louisiana, we needn't go *camping* for all this; it'll get to you just sitting on the porch.

bingo. the western (US) that is aren't nearly as nasty as this. where do you go camping? the bayous of louisiana?

wildlife shmidlife. my only contact to the wild is this redwinged blackbird that buzzes me when i go under its nest on my way to wendy's. dirty rascal that. total loafer. it should be shot.

I think being out in the wild would become more mainstream if more bollywood songs were picturized out there. I know, I know....it sounds dumb but it can be true. Remember what Yash Chopra did for Switzerland?

That being said, I was very impressed to see Anil Kapoor and Namrata Shirodkar get jiggy at the Bryce Canyon National Park. Check it out.

Next time I drive across the country and go to the Rockies..I am taking my chiffon sari, hoping that some other brown folk notice me.

i value my fair complexion and smooooth skin. it is my pride and joy.

You have the one qualification required to be a superb wife.

The name “Mustafa” reminded me of a powerful figure with a glorious mane. For just a minute I forgot about my military short haircut and hummed a little Hakuna Matata

Niagara Falls can hardly classify hardly 'wilderness' - the American side is like a really trashy version of an amusement park, complete with the House Of Horror ride.

As for ticks - pish posh! How did our ancestors survive in their deerskins? At any rate, I've ventured into tick paradise dozens of times and have emerged unscathed. Besides, big deal if you get bitten - remove it with a pair of tweezers(don't twist though, or it's head might remain behind, causing infection - and don't douse it in alcohol!). And if you're really freaked about it go see a doctor.

Dude, that's Mufasa not Mustafa. Ha ha ha.

Hmmmm. To be honest though I always hated that movie :)

"Here's what we all gotta do: get nekkid."

Yeah...Desi Burning Man!!!!!

i value my fair complexion and smooooth skin. it is my pride and joy.

You have the one qualification required to be a superb wife.

all these years of civilization... discovering the joys of indoor plumbing... then, in the name of progress one finds oneself squatting like a monkey in the jungle... forcing the body to perform functions that have been trained to expect porcelain, closed spaces and running water.

and dont get me even started about the food!!!

Dude, that's Mufasa not Mustafa. Ha ha ha.

Hmmmm. To be honest though I always hated that movie :)

Having lived in the Pacific NW, I can say that there aren't many macacas up there at all. I knew one supercool guy doing environmental law for EarthJustice in either Butte or Bozeman, and I'd try to get to Idaho and Missoula every once in awhile for hiking and swimming in the gorgeous lakes, but yeah, in general, very very few brown people there. Even in a place like Seattle, most of the macacas are on the east side by Microsoft and not in the city proper. You can go a long time in the NW without seeing someone South Asian.

Oh! And the fact that Idaho is the center for the white supremacist movement in the US doesn't help matters for that state.

That being said, the NW does have incredible places to hike/camp: the Olympics are gorgeous, the Cascades are dry but beautiful (especially the Alpine Lake area), as well as the obvious locations like Glacier in Montana and Mt. Hood near Portland.

xnomad:

the Alaska Seward Exit Glacier park

One of my favorite hikes ever...Looking out onto the Harding Icefield is spectacular.

As for hiking...Sriram will vouch that the four of us were just about the only 'desi' hikers in great falls on sunday...

I will most certainly vouch for that. It's not an uncommon occurrence at all. My experience hiking in the southwest, appalachia, and even costa rica (best hiking ever) all support Abhi's observations. Although, in costa rica all the hard core hikers seemed to be european.

"find me a shaded corner and pour me a cold lassi any day."

naah. for sheer exhilaration and feeling alive, nothing beats running through a leech-infested forest as fast as you can and then gingerly de-attaching them from your body.

For folks who have lived in India daily life is a litany of shoving, pushing,and vagera vagera exertions.
Coming to America, why should they subject themselves to huffing and puffing up mountains and hills?

Also, in India , nature is a given. Until recently, it was around you. You smelled the fresh air, went for a salt water bath. Nature was not a destination. Something to be objectified and ultimately abused. Look what is happening to the Himalayas and it ain't all Indians.

naah. for sheer exhilaration and feeling alive, nothing beats running through a leech-infested forest as fast as you can and then gingerly de-attaching them from your body.

gaah!! I just remembered this passage from "IT" with the flying leeches and this one attaching to the kid's eyeball and becoming fatter with a white viscous fluid while the kid flailed around in agony.

another reason to stick to the urban landscape.

Also, in India , nature is a given. Until recently, it was around you. You smelled the fresh air, went for a salt water bath. Nature was not a destination. Something to be objectified and ultimately abused. Look what is happening to the Himalayas and it ain't all Indians.

I will be down in Idaho, Yellowstone National park, Grand Teton Natl park this weekend...will update u on the desi sightings :))

i am sure some of you've figured out i was tooling around up there...:-)

to answer your question razib, i usually stick to ontario parks where the ground is frozen and the women more so (to paraphrase you) - still... ticks are the only thing i havent encountered here - all other king-sized bugs flourish here - my run in with ticks though was in arkansas and colorado. on a tangent, they recently found mockingbirds in my neighborhood up here - hwo's to say the tick infesttions wont creep up north in the next few decades :-/ . My answer ... DEET. i have gallons of the stuff. yes it causes cancer, but it's a better alternative to having deerflies tear into the flesh. and my dear who's god it is anyways... i knew i was a true son of the soil when i carried a canoe through a km portage with a dark cloud of mosquitoes around my head. little suckers fed to their fill, and i squirmed not... i knew then i had attained a higher plane of enlightenment - the flask of brandy helped too.

and um... i have gone naturale in some sulphur springs in new mexico. no longer my youth is sagging now, both of them... besides the place abounds in fat old hippies in wrinkled tummies whose belly sag covers their front anyway.

to get to the point... i am sure all of you have photos frolicking in the outdoors - how about a collage - or some sharing on flickr - what do you say?

naah. for sheer exhilaration and feeling alive, nothing beats running through a leech-infested forest as fast as you can and then gingerly de-attaching them from your body.

I accept your bet, and raise it with the proposal that nothing beats being a passenger in a hired cab in India when your driver is veering your car across both sides of the road at breakneck speed, at night and with no headlights, while you hang on for dear life as he attempts to avoid repeated head-on collisions with "Horn Please"-displaying trucks hurtling towards you ahead.

While the cassette deck is blaring the latest Bollywood soundtrack at full volume, of course.

The word "desi" combined with "camping" can only mean one thing: THEPLAS.

The word "desi" combined with "camping" can only mean one thing: THEPLAS.

oh miss neha i'm rolling in my can of beans.... that and yoghurt dabas filled with koru shaak...
:)

neha, i don't appreciate your gujarati-centric interpretation of brownitude. i entered theplas into wikpedia and all it comz up with is "gujarati people." you frozen northerners have hegemonic tendencies.

Is 'thepla' something like parantha ?

guju-puleez.

Years ago, my parents decided camping was the excellent Canadian thing to take part in. Purchased tent, sleeping bags. Crammed ourselves into overcrowded camp site, surrounded by chain-link fence and beyond, a parking lot. In the morning we started up the stove and warmed up the keema* on the Coleman propane stove.

These days, I prefer wilderness canoe camping. And my parents prefer five star hotels.

*Ground beef, a traditional part of desi breakfast. Unless, as I learned later in life, you happen to be a Hindoo

These days, I prefer wilderness canoe camping.

i've enjoyed algonquin and killarney in the recetn past.

"DEET. i have gallons of the stuff. yes it causes cancer, but it's a better alternative to having deerflies tear into the flesh.

hairy_d:
- there are now some pretty good alternatives to DEET.

"i knew i was a true son of the soil when i carried a canoe through a km portage with a dark cloud of mosquitoes around my head. little suckers fed to their fill, and i squirmed not... i knew then i had attained a higher plane of enlightenment - the flask of brandy helped too."
- impressive example of the cycle of life :) there's nothing more ego-deflating than realizing you're just food for one of God's creatures, be it a mosquito or a leech.

Jai:

that is indeed a worthy challenge, especially since i've been in autorickshaws driven by men with a serious death wish in their hearts and maniacal laughs emanating from their lips as they sideswipe everything on the road. on balance, since i value my life, i will stick to leeches.:)

hairy_d: - there are now some pretty good alternatives to DEET.

I was excited about the skin so soft revelation, but alas! it never worked for me.

i've enjoyed algonquin and killarney in the recetn past.

I went canoeing with a friend in Algonquin a few years ago and thought it was beautiful. It was also empty. Why don't more Torontonians head up there, Neha? And Toronto poet Anne Michaels has a few great poems about Algonquin that are worth reading (but I'm too busylazy to find now).

entered theplas into wikpedia and all it comz up with is "gujarati people."

A thepla looks like a spiced and toasted chapati. The dough includes flour, oil, salt, methi, garlic if you're into it, chilli powder and turmeric. Once you have ingested the wonderous thepla with koru shak (dry potato subzi), a la Chick pea's excellent suggestion, and finished it off with a cup of masala chai then you too will begin speaking in mithu mithu (that's sweet sweet :-) gujarati.

Why don't more Torontonians head up there, Neha?

mebee cuz your feet are frozen all the time. kanadians....

I love Theplas with cottage cheese.

i've enjoyed algonquin and killarney in the recetn past.

...ahem. I realise such a fact is nothing to write home about, but hey I'm not Canuck.

theplas are yummy. nothing like a spicy one in the midst of all that wilderness :)..and o btw, you were asking for Indians with a dot right? Nope, sparse. The other kind, tons.

Why don't more Torontonians head up there, Neha?

"I was excited about the skin so soft revelation, but alas! it never worked for me."

i tried one with picaridin and it was effective in moderate mosquito conditions. but then again, i would have to test it in a truly mosquito-infested area to really see whether it worked.

I love Theplas with cottage cheese.

mebee cuz your feet are frozen all the time. kanadians....

The best thing was when my parents went to Yosemite National Park and my Pops kept calling it "Yeshumati".

And we always bring our own aloo, puri, acchar, and coca cola when we are going outdoors.
Cheee, who is going to eat that ghasss-poos salaaad? ;)

we have a cure for frozen feet here, it's called "real beer" ;-)

ah, you're drunk all the time? that explains so much about the left over north americans.

I went canoeing with a friend in Algonquin a few years ago and thought it was beautiful. It was also empty.

8-O You must have gone at a good time... algonquin is one of the most popular vacation spots around here... it also hosts several summer camps and has private cottages... and until one canoes an hour or so, it's pretty crowded... at least to these solitude-seeking eyes...

here's the kicker... algonquin park probably has the only cafeteria contractor in the world that serves vegetarian chili... thick, hearty delish stuff.

I usually need to stagger my trips around the holidays. fer instance, i avoid heading out around long weekends, but the weekend after would be heaven... and the colder it gets the lesser people out there.

speaking of the ethnic make-up in the wild - interestingly, in my last winter camping trip around christmas - i was surprised to see company in the park interior.. a bunch of korean kids by a lake... i'm a bit of a loner, so that's ok - but it was really surprising to see them (male and female) in the middle of nowhere, spending the christmas break ... it was twenty under by the way at night and the ground was frozen wherever it wasnt covered by snow.. pretty tough crowd i tell you, these koreans. the only other folks i met were some russians who were camping by the periphery and were only there for ice fishing.

meena.. you did my heart proud.. thank you... thank you... algonquin is ontario's jewel .. and i'm proud to have shared it with you... next time, do try killarney... for those who dont know - there is a fair population of moose and wolves in the park interior... early spring you can even drive through on the arterial roads and wherever the road salt has flowed into the ditches with the thaw, you'll see moose grazing.

meena... i havent been to europe ever - can you suggest some similar vacation spots in your neck of thewoods?

Abhi,
I have a friend who has lived in Boise forever and she has quite a big group of desis who meet regularly for chat and chai- she says they are all Mallus except her.
I dunno if they read SM tho...
btw you should pull a "shikari shabu" when you go hikin next time- that would be so hot

hairy_d,

meena... i havent been to europe ever - can you suggest some similar vacation spots in your neck of thewoods?

I forgot - the Ardennes in Belgium - hugely popular.

Plenty of opportunities around here as well.

...for hittin' it :=)

re-92, i meant to quote this: Also, you could give Scandinavia a try.

loses the effect since i have to correct a typo ;=(

What's all this talk of brownitude vs. white-itude?

In my experience, any of the national parks over long weekends are chockful of desis - minivans full of desis of all ages, cars full of desi fob grad students, young desi couples etc. I can't vouch for other days, but on long weekends in Grand Canyon you really run the risk of being a desi roadkill if you're not careful (not dissing desi driving, that's in comparison of being someone else's roadkill on some other day). I've seen similar scenarios in Vegas, any given such park in Utah, Colorado, and in Yellowstone as well as Yosemite. Once we visited Arches Nat'l park UT on Dec 25. Not a native soul. All visitors were either desi, or other asian origins. Lots of camcorders, and tongues I didn't understand!! Not surprising but counters the point about low number of desis at such places.

Can't suggest that's all due to any intrinsic urge to be one with nature. I think its because it remains one of the cheaper vacations when you don't have money, or when folks come around, or when you want to get away from the city etc. And it entails long comfy highway drives full of chit-chat and latest bolly-songs on awesome highways in very nice rental (or other ) cars.

tx for reassuring me guys 8-) the plural of anecdote is data, right?

btw you should pull a "shikari shabu" when you go hikin next time- that would be so hot

What is a "shikari shabu?"

Shikari ShaMbhu ..of Tinkle fame.

Abhi: Neha calls them "Thepla" because as I remember she is in Canada via Porbandar, via Dubai (?) or something like that! That term is "Kathiawadi". We (Gujaratis from Ahmedabad) call them "Dhhebra". They are excellent with plain yogurt or as you like it with cottage cheese. In good old "Inja" when we were young and went on occasional picniking, "Dhhebra", with little "Chhundo" and some "Batata Pauaa" and may be "Sukhdi" for sweet will be a heavenly meal in the wilderness. Oh one more thing, when anyone stumbled into a shy and petite gorgeous girl who acted as if she was lost, they all were eager to show her the way!! Good to have you back. Hope you had great time with your Bro.....Love. Dad

...for hittin' it :=)

erm, plenty of naturist campings 'n beaches around as well, something that's a rare commodity in the USA I hear...

there's one close to my house...

razib, you perv :P

don't be repressed. when in stockholm, do as in stockholm 8=) in other words, do, & do, & do....

I think its because it remains one of the cheaper vacations when you don't have money,

i dont agree with the color coding thing either. wanderlust exists in the hindic soul as much as any - among the literary representation - recall vikram seth's wonderful trip into the himalayas, salim ali's work in ornithology, pico iyer's explorations, ... heck even our fat, frabjous rushdie put on khakis for his trip into S. america.

then, my final proof... the piece de resistance... bollywood. all the glorious vistas painted on the silver screen ... the grand canyons, flowers of every hew sprinkled through the green meadows, the fog rolling through the valleys, what else is it but an expression of our aspirations. ultimately popular culture reflects what we want. i concede that it could be a case of indian cinema shaping the indic mindset, rather than the other way around - but it is indisputable that our desires are played out in the movies. i will leave it to amardeep to produce a thesis stringing this together in a cogent presentation :-)

we are not alone.

q.e.d.

Have you ever been to Yosemite National Park? All you will ever see is desis of various types, shapes, attires, languages and physical ability. Occasionally, you may catch a white american there. No kidding! I have even seen bunches of elderly maamas and maamis gamely trying to conquer a few of the park's medium difficulty trails. On the west coast, Yosemite in summer is an Indian mecca only next to Disneyland and Las Vegas.
As for Idaho and Montana, I know of a few desis living there (in the Des Moines area and in the Great Falls area). Surprisingly, they speak of no negative attitudes towards them. They are in diverse professions ranging from teaching at universities, to banking to medicine.

hue...hue... not hew... in #101.

p.s. Thanks meena. i think pyrenees sounds like a plan. i'll look it up.

razib,

don't be repressed. when in stockholm, do as in stockholm 8=) in other words, do, & do, & do....

You're preaching to the converted, man...;) Swedish men be hot.

incidentally, I'm dooding babes in my sketchbook...

What Seeker (#93) said.

btw...what happened to the flickr idea ?

Abhi, the love and affection in your family is very touching, and nice to see.

In five days I saw maybe fifteen and made a big deal about pointing out each family (to the annoyance of P).

Ha! My brother and I do this to each other- although it's all the more annoying because we live in the Bay Area, where it's not such a rare occurence.

Also, like Yo Dad, I call them dhebbras, and prefer them with yogurt. Mmmm. This reminds me I need to go visit my parents. ;)

Abhi, the love and affection in your family is very touching, and nice to see.

Amitabh,
It's all manufactured to increase blog ratings. The blog networks wanted us to go in a more wholesome direction. In reality we are quite dysfunctional. For example I still call them theplas (which is what I remember my mom calling them too). I also like ketchup on my dosa which I refuse to eat with sambar (which annoys my dad to this day). When you turn the rock over it ain't that pretty underneath.

Yo Dad Uncle:

Could you expand on the difference between Kathiawadi and Gujarati? My cousin married a Kathiawadi guy (originally from a village near Amreli?) and he says he is 'not really Gujarati'. Also that his language is very different from regular Gujarati. He and his brother are both 6 feet tall and look Punjabi, is that typical of Kathiawadi people?

Note to everyone else: By mentioning they look Punjabi I am NOT trying to start another thread on the physical differences among Indians, nor am I saying that looking Punjabi is good or bad.

Note to everyone else: By mentioning they look Punjabi I am NOT trying to start another thread on the physical differences among Indians, nor am I saying that looking Punjabi is good or bad.

LOL.

dude, good call to add the caveat, but sad that you have to.

How do you look Punjabi?

The dough includes flour, oil, salt, methi, garlic if you're into it, chilli powder and turmeric. Once you have ingested the wonderous thepla with koru shak (dry potato subzi), a la Chick pea's excellent suggestion, and finished it off with a cup of masala chai then you too will begin speaking in mithu mithu (that's sweet sweet :-) gujarati.

yummy, although i'm damn picky about my chai...:)..fresh adu (ginger) needs to be shredded in and homemade masala, with freshly ground cardomom ... just like my dad makes ;)

Neha calls them "Thepla" because as I remember she is in Canada via Porbandar, via Dubai (?) or something like that! That term is "Kathiawadi".

So i'm via USA, Uganda and Rajkot, am I Kathiawadi too? So confusing... please teach us yo dad..as my dad is currently out of the country traveling.. and also why do some gujus say, paisa (paiha) rather than prounouncing the 'S'? what are the differences there? thank you! :)

both 6 feet tall and look Punjabi, is that typical of Kathiawadi people?

Note to everyone else: By mentioning they look Punjabi I am NOT trying to start another thread on the physical differences among Indians, nor am I saying that looking Punjabi is good or bad.

amitabh:
i'm laughing here, because most people confuse me as looking punjabi (i'm a guju), and love your 'note'... too cute! so maybe i'm kathiawade? dunno... my brother looks like a carbon copy of pete sampras.. greek. :)

oh yeah, and that 'note from amitabh' goes to the greek ethnicity too... just carry it on....

greek jews would be offended, even insulted by the comparison... 8=)

btw...what happened to the flickr idea ?

machang, i thought about it ... but i realized the sordid use the ladies and puliogre will put my pix to .. and i felt so cheap. so i nixed the idea.

we'll leave it to abhi to straddle the screen and represent sepiates-out-there. the blogosphere isnt ready for too much brown meat.

besides,i think this thread's about to go down real fast... somebody find a ruse ... now.

greek jews would be offended, even insulted by the comparison

Greek Jews = Turkish = West Asian = Northwestern Indian = Punjabis.

Kathiawar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathiawar

"too many brown people live in places like new jersey, where the outdoors sux. "

that's right, Razib. we have no trees in New Jersey and, hence, are robbed access to the "great outdoors" that you and folks like you living in the Northwest are otherwise afforded. :-(

(although, granted, i'd take a hot, sunny day lounging around the beach at Sandy Hook over a twelve-hour hike trailing behind the sweaty bum of a naturist (and we all know how they smell!) just to make our way to the North Dome of Yosemite -- yech!)

sweaty bum

sweaty is key. our summers are not humid. and that i believe explains the different perception of something like a nature hike...we aren't soaked at the end of a 80 degree day because humidity is less than 10% during the summer drought.

In my experience, any of the national parks over long weekends are chockful of desis - minivans full of desis of all ages, cars full of desi fob grad students, young desi couples etc. I can't vouch for other days, but on long weekends in Grand Canyon you really run the risk of being a desi roadkill if you're not careful...

I guess the main difference I have seen is that I see a lot of desis in national parks and (less commonly) on day hikes. I rarely see them backpacking or kayaking. A statistical unit of 1. ;-)

It's interesting that you went through Butte, MT. I got my grad degree from Montana Tech, Butte. There are about six desis total in Butte, which is a town of about 35,000. There is one professor at Tech who's a desi. While I was there, desi khana was the biggest thing we missed. You're right there's no Indian restaurant in Butte. The nearest desi dukan (store) was in Seattle or Salt Lake City. There's a Chinese restaurant, though, which used to be run by a Tibetan who spoke Hindi.

Believe it or not, but there are enough desis in Helena, the capital of Montana, for for two cricket teams. We drove up there once to play a 25-over match. Thinking about those days sets me off writing...

that's right, Razib. we have no trees in New Jersey and, hence, are robbed access to the "great outdoors" that you and folks like you living in the Northwest are otherwise afforded. :-(

Okay, that's it, I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I have to defend New Jersey. There are actually a lot of beautiful trails and hikes in New Jersey. I grew up in the boondocks of New England, but did not avidly mountain bike or go camping until I lived in New Jersey. The northwest portion of New Jersey and the Delaware Water gap are really beautiful.

Can it compete with the Northwest? No (although many mountain biking enthusiasts will tell you NJ, bizarrely enough, has some of the best mountain biking trails in the country). But you can't use it as an excuse for not cultivating an interest in the outdoors- you just have to venture 20-30 minutes away from Edison/Iselin.

the northeast is beautiful, that i do not deny. my contention is that the mugginess gives tends to dampen peoples' enthusiasm for nature away from beaches.

My Dad came here in 69 and almost instantly became obsessed with the canoe. He started canoeing lessons and conned me into taking them with him. Pretty soon the two of us were pretty good, and took trips to Lake Louise. As a result of this weird, sudden obsession of my Dad's, I now canoe and kayak a lot, just took my first whitewater kayaking trip on the Riviere Rouge. I'm still the only desi paddling whenever I go. Have to say me and my Dad stuck out like sore thumbs.

I'm still the only desi paddling whenever I go.

I know of a few desis living there (in the Des Moines area

dum-dee-dum.

DQ,
...."...Have to say me and my Dad stuck out like sore thumbs..."

Please elaborate. In whose prespective? Did it diminish the joy of canoeing?

Neale,
God no. We both became addicts.

Since I grew up in redneck central, I actually don't think we stuck out that much - I mean beyond the obvious sticking out of being desi in the first place. Maybe we probably started a new stereotype of paddling desis. Those damn desis, paddling again.

DQ,
I guessed so :-)
I asked because i have had two different experiences ... the first outside-of-work-pursuit i tried , i was the only desi among a hundred or so and it wasn't bad but i never felt that I belonged. The other one was much much smaller group and was much more fulfilling. Taking this once step further - a mostly solo exercise like canoeing or biking or skiing could be exhilirating. Esp if head for chai and Haldiram after :-)

Mmm. The chai and haldiram idea sounds good, packed in ziploc, tightly capped thermos, in the crisp chill fall, taking a break on a rock in the middle of Georgian Bay. Yeah. The desipaddle.

My memories of me and my father (he passed away a few years ago) paddling are precious because he was, in some ways, a really conservative Indian man, yet took me out canoeing. We had a lot of problems as soon as I became a teenager. I guess it reminds me of the part of him that was untouched by convention.

We had a lot of problems as soon as I became a teenager.

Thats what my wife says about my baby daughter - she will only be daddy's girl for so long, you know :)

I lived in Boise for six months in 2001. There is indeed some desi population - IT engineers working primarily for HP and students of Boise State. Beautiful Uni campus.

Did not have any bad experience and visited many spots along Snake River - still fresh in memories.

Risible - just don't take anything she says or does personally when she's older. Like my boss says, his seventeen year old daughter 'looks at him like something she needs to scrape off her boots'. He's trying not to take it personally.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids. Therefore, no experience raising kids.

BUT...is it automatic default that one's offspring have to end up as obnoxious as the typical American brat? I do think children can be taught to be civil, courteous, and respectful. When I was a teen, sure I would get really pissed off with my parents...in my heart I probably hated them at times. But in terms of behavior, how I talked to them, looked at them, etc. I never crossed a certain line. Always maintained a basic respect. They wouldn't have had it any other way. I know a lot of other 2nd genners who never screamed or yelled at their parents, and similarly maintained a respectful tone regardless of the situation. My sister did the same thing, despite disagreeing with my mom on everything during her teenage years. I don't think we need to buy in to this whole 'teens will be teens' phenomenon we have in this country.

brown?

Like my boss says, his seventeen year old daughter 'looks at him like something she needs to scrape off her boots'. He's trying not to take it personally.

Ouch! My little cuddle bunny? never!

Thanks for the advice DQ. I'll enjoy it while it lasts :)

Amitabh, yeah, probably not inevitable. I know non-desis too who were respectful and thoughtful as teenagers. I have to say, though, that I know of several people who behaved respectfully to their parents, never raged against them, who secretly did drugs, dated the wrong guys etc. With desis, there's bound to be some cultural friction unless the children are completely robotic (or the parents are extremely liberal). Some kids deal with it by essentially shutting out their parents on a deeper level. Personally I'd rather have a kid who fought with me, screamed at me, and shared their thoughts and feelings with me, than one who was quiet, respectful and whom I knew nothing about.

Shikari ShaMbhu ..of Tinkle fame

Wow I thought I was the only one who remembered him...although as I remember he was a total wuss (thereby cruelly entrenching the stereotype of South Asian men as effeminate) so I dunno how much help he'd be.

I've got Hakuna Matata runnin' through my head now. I thought Mowgli would have come before Mustafa, but maybe the 'Muh' sound makes it sound like Mohammed.

hey, I'm the one desi that lives in wyoming. I actually grew up in Sheridan, WY and even went to U. of Wyoming...but don't go calling AAHOA just yet...my family owns motels out there. About 20 indian families in wyoming...are either doctors or own motels...go figure.

Shikari ShaMbhu ..of Tinkle fame

Wow I thought I was the only one who remembered him....although as I remember he was a total wuss (thereby cruelly entrenching the stereotype of South Asian men as effeminate) so I dunno how much help he'd be.
Tinkle rules! I think it is just a gentle satire on hunters. After all, since when has Man plus Rifle versus Tiger been a true sport? Any more than Men plus sword versus Bull.

Amitabh: During the British Raj, Gujarat as well as most of India was scattered into so-called princely states. Kathiawad is the name of Northwest region of modern day Gujarat. It was also known as "Saurastra" in more modern days. In or around 1951, after the Independence, "Maha Gujarat" was carved out and Bombay (Mumbai) went to Maharashstra. Have I confused you enough? You are right. Kathiawadis are traditionally tall, well built, relatively fair skinned and takes pride in there moustaches. The literary famous bard "Jhaverchand Meghani" was Kathiawadi. They were good warriors. The accent of Gujarati language varies every 100 miles throughout the state. The gujarati spoken by "Patels" is very distinct too. According to some, the only people who speaks "pure" Gujarati are "Brahmins/Naagars", like yours truly. I do not want to start a side debate here regarding Gujarati language.
Chick Pea: Most surti pronounce S as H. Hence "Paisa" becomes "Paiha".
Abhi: Your Mom calls it "Thepla" because she was born in Uganda and grew up with Desis in East Africa, who were mostly originally from Kathiawad. I am still working to teach her the correct pronounciation. Now let's get back to Nature and hiking, trekking and desis and all the good stuff.

Apparently there are actually about 6 or 7 desi families in Idaho Falls alone and a good chunk more in the state of Idaho. I guess the draw is engineering since there are some nuclear power plants out there.

Have you ever been to Yosemite National Park? All you will ever see is desis of various types, shapes, attires, languages and physical ability. Occasionally, you may catch a white american there. No kidding!

So true!

Yo Dad & Amitabh,

There are a lot of Gujaratis originating from the Kathiawad region here in the UK, either via East Africa or, less frequently but still quite often (especially in the case of older-generation medical doctors) directly from India. The majority are Patels, Vaniyas/Banyas (Shahs etc) and Lohanas; not so many Rajputs, Brahmins, or Naagars, although you occasionally bump into some to a much lesser extent.

This correlates with what I was saying on the other now-closed thread about how Indians in the UK, including the large Gujarati population, are from highly distinct regional and "community"-related backgrounds, hence their frequent physical appearance as per Yo Dad's summary.

Yo Dad Uncle,

I hear that the "Mehr" (spelling ?) community of Kathiawadis also fit the "warrior" description you mentioned, although there aren't many of them here in Britain. However, I saw a major televised concert of Kathiawadi folk music on the Sony channel here last year (it was a professional group, the lead singer is apparently very famous although I can't remember his name, I think they were on an international tour including possibly the US) where both the attire and the music included multiple aspects of Kathiawadi culture, including both Mehrs and Rajputs (some "sword-dancing" dandiya raas too). Some of it was very similar indeed to Rajasthani folk music. Stirring stuff.

According to some, the only people who speaks "pure" Gujarati are "Brahmins/Naagars", like yours truly. I do not want to start a side debate here regarding Gujarati language.

According to my dad only people from Mumbai speak 'proper' gujarati as it's an amalgamation of various gujarati types and he says everyone else has hick-ish accents. My guess is that all guaratis think that the place where they are from is proper lingo and everyone else is a bit odd.

I am conscious of this because I can't do the nasal sound with 'n' as in 'pani' properly, which is a frequent source of amusement for my relatives.

Also my mom's family is Kutchi and they speak a different language or something I can't understand them much at all.

Kutchi is sort of halfway between Gujarati and Sindhi. In fact most linguists consider it closer to Sindhi.

Jai: You're right, from talking to my cousin's husband, it appears that the folkways of Kathiawad are distinct, and do have similarities to Rajasthani culture. For that matter, those districts of Madhya Pradesh that constitute 'Malwa' (not to be confused with Malwa region in Punjab) are also strongly influenced by Rajasthani culture. Makes sense since Malwa is adjacent to Rajasthan. India is full of these traditional cultural-linguistic mini-regions which have no existence on modern maps, but are still alive in the hearts of the people there. Gradually I do think the distinctiveness of these places will erode through modern mass media and education.

Yo dad wrote:

It was also known as "Saurastra" in more modern days.

Interestingly enough, there is a longstanding community in the Tamil country known as Saurastrans who emigrated from Gujurat. In the (I believe) 17th century, a Tamil Queen gave them Brahmin-like status. During the Dravidian movement, due to economic and political pressures, many TamBrams left the countryside, so many of the temples are being run by Saurastrians, originally from Gujurat.

And I believe the home language of the Saurasatrans in Tamil Nadu is a form of Tamil-influenced medieval Gujarati (although they are fluent in Tamil as well).

Oh, I beg to differ on we do the outdoors thing.

You'll have to scroll through to see the pics but here's here's a few shots from our recent trip to Yellowstone and Grand Teton.

June Archive and July Archive

Come to think of it,my blog is brimming with pics of outdoor activity including pics of field research in Puerto Rico.

When I lived in Boston, I also got involved with an Desi group that did TONS of outdoor stuff. It's called Outdoorsyconquistadors. If you live in the Boston area, it's a great way to meet other Desis who do the outdoor thing.

Come to think of it, if any of you want to get together for hikes or camping trips in the Boulder to Denver area, contact me.

Oops... I forgot I went to Moab in May. Here's pics from that trip.

Ok, so as many people have pointed out already, brown people do in fact go camping/hiking etc.
As for that elusive desi owned hotel in Idaho... about two years I was driving down from Seattle to Tucson via Portland, Idaho, Utah, Arizona and Vegas (yeah, I know, a little circumspect, but some white friends and I were doing the whole National Parks thing... and ended it with Vegas *shudder* ). The first night in Idaho was spent in this tiny little town called Mountain Home that was little more than a truckstop and a motel close by. The motel was covered with american flags, so I automatically assumed (given that we were in podunkville, ID) that one of my white friends should go in to book the room (I mean, I didn't want to take any chances as a bearded sikh, and all that). Of course, it turned out that the place was run by a friendly old uncle who I met the next morning.

um, so yeah... Mountain Home, Idaho... about 100 miles NW of Twin Falls, on I-84 has a little motel run by an Uncle. (I think it was called Thunderbird Inn, I could be mistaken)
Mountain Home also happens to be about 2.5hrs from Craters of the Moon National Park... pretty cool place.

The motel was covered with american flags, so I automatically assumed (given that we were in podunkville, ID) that one of my white friends should go in to book the room (I mean, I didn't want to take any chances as a bearded sikh, and all that). Of course, it turned out that the place was run by a friendly old uncle who I met the next morning.

The irony is that the flags were for the uncle's protection. After 9/11, many desi businesses put flags up around their stores to show white America that they are "American" too, so they wouldn't be lynched or have their windows broken.

The irony is that the flags were for the uncle's protection. After 9/11, many desi businesses put flags up around their stores to show white America that they are "American" too, so they wouldn't be lynched or have their windows broken.

come on man. you're point is fair, but the poster was showing how even in the middle of nowhereville the "Other" still represents. in the days of lynching you wouldn't have had black americans owning motels in nowhereville. yes, the glass is half empty, but let's not forgot the other half too....

im brown
i camp
in national parks

im brown
i am camp
only in national parks

;-)

Oops... I forgot I went to Moab in May. Here's pics from that trip.

great shots Osman... put it all up on flickr yaar.

and i do have some work stuff going on in boulder. after swinging by renu's place for some latke-jhatke i'm coming over to meet Marley you.

Have you ever been to Yosemite National Park? All you will ever see is desis of various types, shapes, attires, languages and physical ability. Occasionally, you may catch a white american there. No kidding!

I hear you girl. One a trail there I was once startled to see a white family approaching. Turned out they were punjabis!

(Sigh) Everyone wants to meet Marley. He's a lovable pooch, one of the reasons I tow him around on his chariot.

I don't know what latke-jhatke is, but if you're in area come on by.

oh thanks Osman!!! And let me know should you be in the neighborhood. We'll do the bruce trail or one of the provincial parks - miles into nowhere - not many scorpions, but loads of peace

p.s. my favorite shot of marley, was this

p.p.s. that latke-jhatke was a reference to the famous desidancer who's been known to trawl these waters.

hmm... the link to the pic doesn't work. But I'm game for a hike.

Sounds like you're down in Denver. Maybe sometime next week? Drop me an email and lets set it up! Dancer is invited too, of course.

hmm... the link to the pic doesn't work. But I'm game for a hike.

Sounds like you're down in Denver. Maybe sometime next week? Drop me an email and lets set it up! Dancer is invited too, of course.

my final proof... the piece de resistance... bollywood. all the glorious vistas painted on the silver screen ... the grand canyons, flowers of every hew sprinkled through the green meadows, the fog rolling through the valleys

Brilliant hairy_D! That definitively PROVES that desis are the most outdoorsy race of all!

That definitively PROVES that desis are the most outdoorsy race of all!

They are so outdoorsy that, when the romantic couple is magically transported to Switzerland for a Bollywood song sequence, the heroine is able to freely dance around in the snow and arctic conditions while wearing just a sleeveless blouse and a light-as-a-feather chiffon sari. Who says desis can't stand the cold ?

To make desis hike up a hill, you need to a build a temple on top of it.

Abhi:

National Geographic's Adventure magazine had a nice article on Boise, Idaho in this month's issue. I'm sure you've already scoured it, but just in case you haven't, it was an interesting piece on the shifting demographics (folks moving from Cali and other metros) of Boise and how it isn't all that bad of a place to live.

Yep, I subscribe to Nationl Geographic Adventure. My bro lived in Moscow, Idaho for the last two years but moved back to the east coast the day after our trip.

My bro lived in Moscow, Idaho

i had an ex who was from moscow. very liberal town really. she was a very liberal girl :)

Have you ever been to Yosemite National Park? All you will ever see is desis...

Seriously, what is it with the San Jose to Yosemite, multiple family desi road trip? Where all the kids want to hike down sheer cliff walls and float down rivers in inner tubes while all the adults sit around drinking chai...

So if anyone is still reading this post (since its two years old) i'll be greatly surprised, but i must respond. first let me say that i am white and a boise native (that is boise id) and while your definitely right about the racial hamogeny here, there are more than just white people here! infact we have a growing population of indians in the area...i work for the downtown ymca and am familiar with several families and have met quite a few indians around here! i cant speak for all of idaho, nor for the north west, but boise is diversifying...that being said, i have lived in other parts of the country and when i came home the last time i was upset about the "white wash" of idaho and i hope that more people can overcome preconceptions both in idaho and outside of idaho so that we can continue to diversify!