I'm rooting for them too. I recently read "In the Corner of a Far Field," Ramachandra Guha's magisterial history of Indian cricket. Basically, the Parsis were the first serious players, and no team, Hindu or Muslim, could beat them for half a century!

All this made the transition to an Independent India an awkward and stilted affair for many (but by no means all) Parsis in Bombay and elsewhere.

Anglophilic inclinations aside, they are always looked as leaders of industry for ever: Tatas, Wadias, Godrejs, and therefore, I think they are part and parcel always. ArZan could tell us more.

Also, Feroze Gandhi being a Parsi, Field Marshal Manekshaw, Homi Bhabha (father of Indian Nuclear Science) too made a huge difference.

NYT article is pretty good but it does not touch much about the Parsi capital: Mumbai.

Say it ain't so! As Rick said, in Casablanca, "We'll always have Parsis."

there are already several "renegade" priests who will marry non-parsis with parsis in a traditional ceremony. ultimately, i think there will come a point when the orthodox priests will have to give in.

alternatively, you could be like me and have many close parsi friends who make you an "honorary parsi." if nothing else, at least the number has increased by one!

I visited a family in the cyrus minwalla colony in karachi, anglophilic seems to be about right. I don't know the details of their worship but they had a room devoted to the gods, emphasis on the plural. they had the hindu gods, portraits of imam ali, a mary/jesus statuette, buddha. everything. I wish I'd had the courage to ask to photograph it.

did get this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cageitfallsinto/102572904/

I don't know the details of their worship

they worship nature in the form of fire, in a fire-temple or agyari. non-parsis are not allowed. although one might think this is discriminatory, the story goes that when they were given permission to stay in india by the gujarati king all those centuries ago, it was on condition that they not convert anyone to zoroastrianism. and so, as a precaution, non-parsis were not allowed in their temples. and this tradition continues today. can't vouch for the authenticity of that story, though.

Why don't the Parsis take a hard core stance the way the Jewish community has done? Most Jewish children brought up anywhere in the world are acutely aware that their community is limited and they go out of their way to date/marry Jewish to continue their culture/religion. It is working so far as there is no decline in the Jewish population. Parsis should get the same conscience. Maybe Parsis need their own country in order to survive extinction.

Kush thanks for the heads up.

I think that the anglophilic angle is something that has always been there. So has the notion that the parsis were "neutral like the swiss" as exemplified in the Deepa Mehta movie (I forget the name)

I think that the Parsis of that time believed that the way to get around the British was to rise to their level in competence. Be it education, industry, or military. The Tatas for example believed that the British would listen to them by the mere fact that they had accomplished so much.

Yes, a very modern outlook on life helped in pushing forward social reform.....education for women up to the highest level.

The Great Ganesha....you are absolutely correct. This is precisely the reasoning, that many of our customs are the way they are. In Persia, Parsis married at noon, when the sun was at its highest and brightest.

When my ancestors arrived in India, the king Jadav Rana, asked us to conduct all our marriage festivities after dark, so that we would not attract attention of the native people and influence them into converting.

The issues that we the Parsis are encountering today are too deep rooted for this forum. They are regularly covered on the Parsi Khabar blog.

And if you really want to be an honorary Parsi, subscription of the blog is a sure brownie point in your application.

What? Has anyone told Dubya that the Magi are dying out? Well. Christmas just won't be the same for this Hindu macaca.

I say they get Rockmaster Scott and Slick Rick, or maybe the Bloodhound Gang, to convert to Zoroastrianism and make "The Roof is On Fire" their new hymn. Big ups! I'd join DAT.

I don't know the science (razib!), but I strongly suspect that Parsis probably don't have the required healthy population to sustain growth rates enough for survival without intermarriage.

I am rooting for them, anglophilic aside, they have a wonderful reputation in Bombay for being people who have contributed a lot in many positive ways to India. Some more info on wikipedia

And what other religion has such a unique and eco-friendly means of funeral?

The Parsi religion is proto-Iranian, and very connected to Vedic and proto-Vedic religions. They worship nature, mainly fire. Their deities and names that are linguistically and historically related to Vedic deities. This Wikipedia link is quite illuminating, and people acquainted with Hindu mythology will see immediate linguistic connections.

Has anyone told Dubya that the Magi are dying out? Well. Christmas just won't be the same for this Hindu macaca

That is actually probably correct. Here's more on the Magi . Read the 'Magi in India' section at the end. My Vedic studies professor mentioned a lot of recent research arguing that the Magi in the Bible were actually descended from the 'Maga' in Punjab, who also moved further eastward into India to found the kingdom of 'Magadh'. Probably as good a hypothesis as any.

Anyway, fact remains that the Magi were Parsis.

Qissa-i Sanjan:

This text is an account of the emigration of Zoroastrians from Iran to India. It was written in 1600 A.C. The settlement at Sanjan appears to have occurred in 936 A.C. The Muslim sacking of Sanjan probably occurred in 1465 A.C. The sacred fire Iranshah was moved from Navsari to Udwada in the eighteenth century.

Thanks for the link. I was pleasantly surprised to see that someone actually saw my first post. I am, by no means, an expert on Parsi culture and current affairs, and am sure others (who are perhaps members of the community themselves) could offer much more enlightening responses to the article. But, if in posting I've brought some additional information up for people's consumption, that's great; if I've generalized too crudely, my apologies!

And if you really want to be an honorary Parsi, subscription of the blog is a sure brownie point in your application.

rest assured, i frequent both your blogs quite regularly.

and i'm sure arzan will know much more about this, but there's also another famous story about how the parsis were allowed into india: when they first came up on the beach, and were taken to the king, their leader asked for permission to stay to escape persecution from the muslims. the king, at first, declined, saying that his kingdom had too many people already - it was full. the zoroastrian leader asked for a glass of milk filled to the brim, and a spoon of sugar. he put the sugar in the milk and told the king that just like the sugar dissolved into a full glass of milk and made it sweeter, his people would fit into the local population.

i think they have lived up to their promise.

Parsis' small numbers accentuated their affinity for the British. It's not as if other communities didn't have their Anglophiles.

a population size of ~100,000 is not necessarily problematic. but, my own impression is that

a) there have been bottlenecks, so 100,000 are descended from a few ancestors (e.g., the parsis who showed up in india claim only a few forbears)
b) obviously the full 100 (or 200) thousand are not randomly, in reality lots of small diasporas are limited to themselves so they get inbred easily

a few points

1) the sassanids forwarded zoroastrianism as the imperial religion. there were attempts to convert the armenians, and fire temples were built in places like georgia in the caucasus. the historical literature & archeological finds seem to be clear that prior to islam some turkic groups in "turan" (that is, north of iran, "non-iran") assimilated to the zoroastrian religion. i bring this up because a common argument, especially among parsis, is that zorastrianism is the ethnic-racial religion of the aryans of persia. that argument though is contextualized by a lot of history.

2) the article mentions that zoroastrians in iran do not accept converts. well, it is dangerous to be non-muslim and accepting converts in a muslim nation. the inward and endogamous nature of iranian zoroastrianism is simply a necessary precondition for their existence, if they were seen to reach out toward muslim persians they would have been blotted out as a community (as it is, until the 20th century they were found only in desolate places like yazd and kerman).

3) the parsis have clearly accept many indian assumptions from what i can tell despite their anglophilia. in iran separation and endogamy is a necessary preconditon for communal survival, but in india endogamy and separation are often the hallmarks of elite groups, the natue of indian social structure fosters the integration of communities in a community of communities, as opposed to a melting and bleeding through of individuals across social-cultural barriers. i have read that the zoroastrians of iran, once removed from the iranian shia state are more open to conversions than the parsis, and this is attribute to the fact that their ethnic purity is a function of the circumstances as opposed to ideology.

4) the idea that jews are prospering as a community that focuses on inmarriage is fallacious. a perusal of the American Jewish Survey will make that clear. americans have intermarriage rates per generation on the order of 30-60% (depending on how you define a "jew" and who you believe). their fertility rate is well below 2, and, their number as a proportion of the american populace peaked in the late 1940s. the most numerous, and most rapidly growing, major sect of judaism has the been rather open and intermarriage friendly reform movement.

5) in the modern, western, world ethnic religions will die and diminish. that is the nature of the game, individuals make choices freed from familial obligations and expectations, and over the generations erosion is a persistence fact of religious life. the only way to make up for this is outreach. if one does not outreach, then one sees one's own base slowly shrink into oblivion.

p.s. if zoroastrianism dies out as an ethnic religion of persian aryans in a century that does not mean that the zoroastrian faith will die out. there are isolated western converts, and i am to understand in in that some of the central asian states of the former soviet union some non-islamic oriented turkic intellectuals have fostered a mild revival of zoroastrianism as their "ancestral" religion, and an alternative vehicle of religious expression to the "arab faith."

I'm surprised that no one has commented about the timing of the NYT article - the goal of its subtext is basically to continue stoking the world's anxieties with respect to Iran i.e. that it has managed to aid in the dilution of another of the world's great religions - they just finished running a story by an Iranian Jewish immigrant along similar lines - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/02/opinion/02hakakian.html

Thanks for the link. I had no idea Roya is Jewish!

So has the notion that the parsis were "neutral like the swiss" as exemplified in the Deepa Mehta movie (I forget the name)

the zoroastrian leader asked for a glass of milk filled to the brim, and a spoon of sugar. he put the sugar in the milk and told the king that just like the sugar dissolved into a full glass of milk and made it sweeter, his people would fit into the local population.

The movie was Earth, and in one scene where the girl asks her mom why other Indians call them "bum-lickers" of the British, the mom says something to the effect of "We are not bum-lickers... we Parsis are like sugar in a cup of tea: sweet but invisible."

Lots of movies made 20-30 years ago had Parsis in it. The anglophilia was prominent but the portrayal was very positive. One of my friends thought it's unfair that there are so many movies made and so many books written about this small group :-). 1947 Earth is something of an exception in modern times. The "bum-licker" angle was played up, not just for the Parsis, but for the Christian converts of Lahore as well, though the class difference was obvious.

sa,
Judaism accepts converts. Why, even Walter in The Big Lebowsky converted for his ex-wife.

Technophobicgeek,
Thanks for the tidbit on the funeral. It's new to me. Found this site describing the whole ritual.

Would it be such a bad thing if a religion died out? Hasn't this been happening throughout human history?

Thomas Kurma,

Would it be such a bad thing if a religion died out? Hasn't this been happening throughout human history?

It depends on whether the religion concerned has an overall positive effect on its adherents (their own behaviour/ideas/personalities, along with the impact the people concerned have on wider society), and on exactly what would replace the vacuum left if the religion did indeed die out :)

I grew up with lots of Parsis back home in my school in Ahmedabad. They have adopted mostly all Gujarati vernacular and traditions. More than 100 years ago Parsis were involved in some of the best "Gujarati" stage play (Comedy Drama) in Bombay and Ahmedabad. I just came back from a wedding of my Parsi friend's daughter in Chicago. "Rohena Elavia" is Parsi however the groom "Gautam Kriplani" is a Brahmin from Kerala. In the early afternoon there was a traditional "Hindu" wedding with chants and vedic mantras , and in the evening there was a fabulous Zorastrian traditional "Parsi" wedding. Parsis are very sweet and always joyous people. They are slowly dwindling in numbers though. My wife owns few gorgeous "Jardaushi" sari.I hope they find a way to perpetuate their clan. To name a few Parsi stalwarts: Jamshedji Navroji Tata from Navsari, Nani Palkhiwala, Zubin Mehta, Adi Marzban, etc...

Nina Wadia from Goodness Gracious Me is a Parsi too.

The other version of the glass of milk story I've heard is that rather than sugar, a gold ring was dropped into the glass, implying that the Parsis would be invisible, while enriching their new homeland.

I grew up with lots of Parsis back home in my school in Ahmedabad.

Thank god. finally somebody from ahmedabad.. which school did u go to, yo dad??.. I went to school with tons of parsis too - a very warm and proud people. One thing which I didn't do (and now feel should have definitely done) is eat a lot of the exquisite parsi cuisine - aah, how depressing.

Amardeep haven't you heard about Bhikaji Cama?

Shiva, thanks for the Bhikaji Cama reference. Although I came across her name now and then, I never knew much about her. I'm not proud of it :(

I just came back from a wedding of my Parsi friend's daughter in Chicago

Yo Dad, FYI, the NYTimes article has a few paragraphs on your friend's daughter and husband. (I presume, from your comment that you didn't notice that).

The peril and the hope for Zoroastrianism are embodied in a child of the diaspora, Rohena Elavia Ullal, 27, a physical therapist in suburban Chicago.

Ms. Ullal knew from an early age that her parents wanted her to marry another Zoroastrian. Her mother, a former board president of the Chicago temple, helped organize Sunday school classes once a month there, enticing teenagers with weekend sleepovers and roller-skating trips.

The result was a core group of close friends who felt more like cousins, Ms. Ullal said recently over breakfast.

Both of her brothers found mates at Zoroastrian youth congresses, and one is already married. Ms. Ullal stayed on the lookout.

“There were so few,” she said. “I guess you’re lucky if you find somebody. That would be the ideal.”

Ms. Ullal’s college boyfriend is also the child of Indian immigrants to the United States, but he is Hindu. [They married on Saturday and had two ceremonies — one Hindu, one Zoroastrian.] But Ms. Ullal says that before they even became engaged, they talked about her desire to raise their children as Zoroastrians.

“It’s scary; we’re dipping down in numbers,” she said. “I don’t want to hurt his parents, but he doesn’t have the kind of responsibility, whereas I do.”

Rev.Gauss: I went to St. Xavier's High School (Standard 1 ~ 7 at Mirzapur, and 8 ~ 11 at Loyola Hall).

Ashvin: You are right. I forgor that the local TV media were present too, together with the Consul General and 700 other folks. Too bad "Yo Mom" was not in a mood to dance all night. Also Groom's last name was not Kriplani, but "Ullal". His mom's name was Kripa.

P.S. By the way first commercial pilot's license issued to any "Indian" was to a parsi named "Ratan Tata".

Tah tah for now!

Lets not forget the spiritual mystic Meher Baba, another famous Parsi, though his teachings were more Vedantic than Zorastrian; he is also linked to Shirdi Sai Baba's lineage. His most famous western disciple was Pete Townsend of the Who, and the rock opera Tommy is partially based on the Baba's life.

And Freddie Mercury b Ronnie Bulsara .

I'm in favor of any mandate that keeps the Irani cafes in Bombay going strong.

Another well known Parsi, though for all the wrong reasons, is Navroze Mody, who 19 years ago (on September 27, 1987) was beaten into a coma by four teens in Hoboken, NJ. He died three days later.

Lets not forget the spiritual mystic Meher Baba, another famous Parsi, though his teachings were more Vedantic than Zorastrian; he is also linked to Shirdi Sai Baba's lineage. His most famous western disciple was Pete Townsend of the Who, and the rock opera Tommy is partially based on the Baba's life.

Meher Baba?!? How popular is he in India? My best friend in high school was a "Baba Lover" and I've met scores of other hardcore American hippies who do their thing here, Sahavas and all. I never took it seriously because his following began in the mid twentieth century and consisted of basically lower caste/class Indians and upper/upper-middle class white folk (who are responsible for most of the institutionalization of the religion)... and y'all know what that means ;)

Anyway, I know that he was Zoroastrian, but I don't know if he was Parsi. He was born in Iran, but grew up in India. His father was a professional and he did go to an elite English school in the Mumbai area. His hageography holds that he was "the avatar of the age", and as far as I can tell from the Western literature on him, he was assumed to be the Christ of this age. His teachings also resemble Christian mysticism more than they resemble Zoroastrianism. His linking to Sai Baba, who has far more legitimacy among Indians, was to imply that he was even higher than Sai Baba and the other "sadgurus" or "perfect masters".

sorry, meant to spell hagiography, not hageography

He was born in Iran, but grew up in India.

Shruti, according to the wikipedia article, he was born in Pune.

His linking to Sai Baba, who has far more legitimacy among Indians, was to imply that he was even higher than Sai Baba and the other "sadgurus" or "perfect masters".

Everyone links up to the Shirdi Sai baba, and why not, it improves your spirtual brand immensely. But Shirdi Sai Baba has Parsi devotees too; in fact, one of the best short biographies in English is written by a Parsi devotee, I am forgetting her name...

Shruti, according to the wikipedia article, he was born in Pune.

no it doesn't.

no it doesn't.

Yeah it did, before you changed it to MARS :)

Two famous Parsis who seem to have been missed out here are
1. Rohington Mistry - the writer of 'A fine balance', 'Such a long journey' and 'Family Matters' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohinton_Mistry

2. Farrokh Balsara alias Freddie Mercury, the rock star - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury

i think it was Freddie Mercury's 60th birth anniversary a couple of days ago. bbc had a story on how the conservative island of zanzibar, where he was born, were opposed to any celebrations in remembrance of him.

Bapsy Sidhwa is another famous author.

And yes its Farrokh Bulsara, and not Ronnie. :)

Meher baba following is prevalanat amongst us Parsis.

There are a few others like that.....Nagraj Yogi....in Wadia Baug in Parel who has a huge non-parsi following with some of the wierdest customs

And before there were Aish and Sushmita there was Persis Khambatta.

How about post-post-colonial-you so post I caint understaand you Harvard Prof. Homi Bhabha? In fact there's lots of Parsi professors...

From the NYT article:

“They feel that the religion is not universal and is ethnic in nature, and that it should be kept within the tribe,” said Jehan Bagli,

If the orthodox branch feels the above and feels that the religion is ethnic in nature, what is their position on an ethnic Irani (who happens to be Muslim Christian or Jew) marrying a Parsi? Will their kids be accepted into Zorastraniasm if the non-Parsi person converts ??

The reason why I raise this question, is that if ethnicity was the issue behind not allowing converts, than a Iranian person should be allowed to convert, right?

Just a hypothetical question !!!!

Just a hypothetical question !!!!

some parsis have brought up gently outreaching toward ethnic iranians in the diaspora as being an acceptable compromise-reinforcing their numbers while remaining ethnically 'pure.' google it.

I have no idea what a "Parsi" is, but I will assume they have light skin and therefore considered gods and they had something to due with mathmatics thousands of years ago, for example they concluded 2+2=4, and that was there gift to the world.

Meher baba following is prevalanat amongst us Parsis.

Thanks Arzan. So he is a Parsi then? Do you know in what way he is received by the Parsi community?

I think that the Parsis of that time believed that the way to get around the British was to rise to their level in competence.

The Competent British Vs the Incompetent Indians who need to rise to the level of the first? Hmmmm.

Gandhi has an interesting essay (called "Shaking the Manes" perhaps?) on the evolution of his thought processes re the Raj in which he describes how initially (while in South Africa) he thought that the way to win the 'respect' of the British (and therefore be able to set right the 'flaws' in the British system and win 'equality' etc) was to be as "competent" etc as them. However, he began to realize that no matter what Indians proved themselves, basically they would never really be respected by the British (except for a few exceptions and for the strategic sorts of reasons the excellent analysis by Strange Loops has). That is, he realized that the British system itself had inherent flaws and therefore was not one that should be supported.

The Strange Loops analysis is a good one. Both the British and the Parsis (with all due respect to them) found it strategically useful for the Parsis to view themselves as different, Anglicised, more 'cultured' (read Western).

Well the british rulers of India had their own color-based caste apartheid system going, and parsis and baghdadi jews (Sasoons et al) figured way higher in the totem pole than the dark-skinned natives of hindoostan.

Nepalese gurkhas also had a higher status in the colonial caste system than the hindu, muslim or sikh natives. While the native soldiery were called sepoys and barred from british canteens, the mongoloid gurkhas were called riflemen and welcomed into those same canteens.

Amardeep wrote: "Perhaps the reluctance by more conservative Parsis to accept intermarriage has to do with exactly the kind of internalized racial thinking the blogger (who is not a Parsi him/herself) is talking about."

Just to clarify:- the reluctance to convert others has a lot to do with history. The Gujarati ruler in Diu, Jadi Rana who allowed them asylum after they fled Iran took an oath that they would not convert the locals, but would be free to practice their religion. One can say that this was a clever pact by the ruler not to disturb local tradition, but to do a humanitarian act of kindness. The holy fire that they had brought with them from Iran was used to consecrate a temple there. Unfortunately, this temple was destroyed by a Muslim Sultan sometime during the 1500s. They, then fled to Navsari.

[If you get a chance, check out Zubin Mehta's film on the history of the Parsis. It is a low budget documentary, but quite nice. Zubin's father Mehli, was the one-time conductor of the Bombay Philharmonic orchestra. He is the person responsible for the famous shivranjani tune that is used to begin AIR programmes every morning.]

There is a lot of similarity with the lost tribes of Israel (now Bene Israel community in India) in this regard. The local ruler of Maharashtra offered them asylum and allowed them complete freedom to practice their religion. Most of them were oilmen. Since they did not work on Saturdays, they were/are known as "Shaniwar Teli". That actually became a separate caste in India, until a Brit recognized their holy works, was surprised that it did not mention the destruction of Solomon's temple and figured that they could be one of the lost tribes.

A few historians do believe that the sub-caste system in India must've been created by such migrations that took place over millenia. Later, these folks got somewhat assimilated, but retained their separate identity. [e.g. the Saraswat Brahmin community etc]

Farokh Engineer

Gen. Manekshaw

Field Marshall Manekshaw to you, Sir! :-)

"Why don't the Parsis take a hard core stance the way the Jewish community has done? Most Jewish children brought up anywhere in the world are acutely aware that their community is limited and they go out of their way to date/marry Jewish to continue their culture/religion. It is working so far as there is no decline in the Jewish population. Parsis should get the same conscience. Maybe Parsis need their own country in order to survive extinction."

Actually it seems that Jews go out of their way to marry non-Jews. After all, if they didn't european jews would still look middle-eastern.

"The Parsi religion is proto-Iranian, and very connected to Vedic and proto-Vedic religions. They worship nature, mainly fire. Their deities and names that are linguistically and historically related to Vedic deities. This Wikipedia link is quite illuminating, and people acquainted with Hindu mythology will see immediate linguistic connections."

Yup it's quite interesting. Their god, 'Ahura Mazda' - Ahura in sanskrit is 'asura'. Daevas are evil spirits in Zoroastrianism, while in Hinduism they're quite the opposite. So really Hinduism's demons are Zoroastrianism's gods and vice-versa.

One IMPORTANT point about the NY Times piece:

It was NOT supposed to be about (as Amardeep says) "the declining numbers of the otherwise highly successful, globalized Parsi community." It was supposed to be a survey piece about Zoroastrians (not just those of Parsi background, but those of Iranian background too) as a whole in North America, and yes their declining numbers, and not about their supposed "model minority" success. It was sensitively written, but did not completely suceed, otherwise you guys would not be assuming all the various and sometimes stereotypical things you are.

Lets clarify some things, you guys:

1) The Zoroastrian community in North America (and the world) is absolutely NOT just composed of Parsis. Its about equally composed of people of Parsi background, AND Zoroastrians of Iranian background. Chicago (one of N America's oldest and biggest Zoroastrian communities) happens to be a vary Parsi-predominant, and I guess Goodstein may have spoken mostly to Parsis. Thats too bad, because all the interviewees quoted were Parsi-- and it skews the picture for you guys. So let me repeat: North American Zoroastrians include BOTH types of people-- so if you're trying to talk about Zoroastrians, talk about both groups please. If you're only talking about Parsis, then fine, talk about Parsis.

2) Neither Parsis, nor Iranian Zoroastrians should be unilaterally described as "highly successful." Either in their countries of origin or the diaspora. Yes its true of many, but COME ON, guys-- this is a South Asian American blog-- many people say the same thing about South Asians and South Asian Americans. Are we ALL model minorities? Of course not. Its true of many South Asians, because of immigration history, labor laws, and loopholes that created a class of educated South Asian immigrants. But its also not true. Simililarly for Parsis (and other groups created as "colonial elites"), many Parsis made it big, became rich, were educated, and yes anglicized (and fyi, like other colonial elites, and for that matter other people of color in the Americas, most of these famous big Parsis "just happened" to be the light skinned ones). And many of those Parsis established financial trusts for poor Parsis, for housing, food, and education, thus eliminating demands on the government by the community in India, and lessening extreme poverty among Parsis. But, especially in India, they are a very economically diverse community. Just because you only have access to seeing richer ones doesnt mean they are the only ones. There are extremely poor Parsis, there are Parsi servants, there are Parsis who do not have enough money for proper education etc. Just take a look at Rohinton Mistry's novels. Many Parsis, who come from middle class backgrounds, dont like him, because often his characters are poor Parsis. These people say poor Parsis do not exist. But they totally do. I know many. Now lets talk about Iranian Zoroastrians. Many of them did become rich and educated (do you know why? in part because more than 100 years ago, some of these rich Parsis found out how discriminated against and poor the Iranian Zoroastrians were, and set up trusts and schools for them too). But many remained poor, especially the ones not in urban areas. So Goodstein was ill-advised to say what she said about all Zoroastrians, and you all are ill-advised to use your own personal experiences to build on that model minority stereotype. Really, its kind of offensive. Especially for a South Asian American group of folks, you should know better than to jump to conclusions.

3) Iranian Zoroastrians. Its too bad Goodstein didnt really quote many, and note the nuances of how conversion etc affects the subsets in the community. As Razib noted (which Goodstein didnt really get into), a lot of these conversion arguements are relevant largely to Parsis, in South Asia and in the diaspora (although less so in the diaspora). Because converting to Zoroastrianism in Iran is, as far as I know, a crime, or at best, heavily fined. So its not even an option. Here in the diaspora, you will find among many many Iranian-origin folks, a healthy respect and enthusiasm for Zoroastrianism. Many Iranian Americans feel a real kinship with Zoroastrianism, even if they are Muslim-- and if you ask, you will find many stories of people saying "I feel Zoroastrian in my heart", or "My uncle wanted to convert to Zoroastrianism", or "My aunt was secretly Zoroastrian." Thats why Goodstein notes that global figures for Zoroastrians are shaky at best. There are 2 different national religion surveys in Iran-- one puts the Zoroastrian number at something like 50,000; and another at something like 150,000. This means either people were afraid to note their religion, or that changed, and/or there is a "continuum" of "how Zoroastrian" Iranians feel. I think its the latter.

4) Procreation. To address what "Sa" and others said. Give Zoroastrians some credit, please! Parsis and Iranian Zoroastrians, from day 1 are told they are dying out and have the obligation to procreate. Whether the parents are conservative or liberal, the stress is on from the time you're in diapers. Despite all the stuff about intermarriage, what the article doesnt say -- and what you all may not know-- is that LOTS of Zoroastrians (not just Parsis, but Zoroastrians all) DO make a concerted effort to date other Zoroastrians. Truly. But when the pool of daters, especially in certain age groups and geographic areas, is limited, the options are limited. Many Zoroastrians, like any other cultural group, go to conferences, and do meet people. But its still really limited. Among the smallish number of age-appropriate amazing wonderful single Zoroastrians, some will just not be into you, and others (due to all the procreation pressure) are not ready to settle down; add to that the usual dose in any community of creepy stalkers and crazy people, and what are you supposed to do? Jump on the first person you find? Pin them down and procreate? Come on, guys. Zoroastrians DO make efforts.

Well said, Anahita.

People who are Iranian Zoroastrian, or Parsi Zoroastrian, in the diaspora, exist in a very different reality from the homeland, where legacies and stereotypes are not as played out. As in many religious communities made up of various cultures, the younger generations have much more in common than the immigrant generations.

But, as Anahita said, BE WARY-- being "Zoroastrian" does NOT mean being "Parsi" only. And being "Parsi" does NOT imply being "successful" and "globalized" as Amerdeep seems to think.

If you are against the "model minority myth" being applied to South Asian Americans, then you should be against that same myth being applied to Parsis or any other group which does have rich educated members who were cultivated by colonial powers, but which also has many who do not fit the stereotype.

Iranian Zoroastrian immigrants -- and their children-- know when what it is to be severely discriminated against. To be considered unclean, to have your testimony discounted by the legal system, to be prevented from pursuing your profession of choice, or living in an area of your choice...

Parsi Zoroastrian immigrants -- whatever their economic background-- have not experienced serious discrimination (they do experience resentment though) in South Asia -- so had a period of adjustment to learn that they and their children would experience discrimination in North America, UK and elsewhere. But Parsis HAVE experienced being resented because of their perceived "model minority" status in South Asia-- which has been crippling to the psyches of many Parsis who were not well educated or grew up poor-- who grew up ashamed to reveal their true economic background, for fear they'd reveal the secret of Parsi economic diversity. It is true, therefore, that many Parsis who come from middle class and upper middle class backgfounds resent Rohinton Mistry's work.

The Zoroastrian religion, though empire, trade (including the Silk Road), has influenced many different religions and cultures (including Buddhism, although sadly most scholarship concentrates on Christianity and Judaism..), in identifiable and in ways that are just being explored by scholarship.

One very interesting aspect is its veneration of the natural elements -- including not just fire, but also water (which is somehow associated with female properties, possibly through pre-Zoroastrian female deities).

Goodstein's article did not emphasize, as much as it could have, the sheer dynamism of Zoroastrian youth, expecially in North America. There's A LOT going on, and its all pretty exciting.

She didnt mention that Zoroastrian centers throughout the continent are ALL raising money, building new wings or new buildings. Pretty cool for a community that's supposedly dying out!

Indeed, the British often referred to Parsis as the ‘Jews of India’

comeon everyone knows that the gujuratis are the real 'jews of india'!

:-)