October 11, 2006
No longer worried (was: Be careful tonight, please)News
A small airplane has crashed into a building in New York City. It hit a 50 story condo on 524 E. 72nd Street, and part of the building is on fire. There are no indications yet that this is anything other than an accident, the building is right on the East River, and so it is possible that it was hit by a small plane or helicopter that got lost:
Witness Sarah Steiner told CNN that fires were burning on the ground. “It looks like the plane just flew into someone’s living room there.” “It looks as if the aircraft didn’t go into the building but fell down,” she said. “It may be part of the debris burning on the ground.” Steiner said that when she arrived, she saw fire shooting out of two windows on the 30th floor of the 50-story building. Video from the scene shows at least three apartments in the high-rise fully engulfed in flames. [Link]Television views of the fire showed flames shooting out of four windows and smoke that streamed up into the sky, visible for miles. [Link]
THERE IS NO INDICATION OF TERRORISM:
“We haven’t heard from any of our facilities that anything’s missing.” New York City government source told CNN there are “no indications of terrorism…” [Link]The FBI has told the BBC that there is no indication that the crash is terrorism-related. [Link]
A senior Homeland Security official said there is no indication of terrorism, but rather it the incident appeared to be a “terrible accident”. [Link]
But these are the sorts of events that make people scared and angry, and these are the sorts of times when people feel justified acting out their racism as a hate crime. Please be careful tonight. I know I’ll be looking over my shoulder as I get in and out of my car, especially once the news gets out. It’s times like these that I wish I lived in a large city on the coasts, and not a smallish conurbation in the midwest where I encounter enough racism even on a regular basis.
UPDATE 1 :
The fire seems to be largely out now:
16 engine and 9 ladder companies have responded; most of the fire has been extinguished…. A total of four people have been confirmed dead - two people from the plane, two people from the building. Additionally, the aircraft was a Cirrus 20, which supposedly has a parachute for emergencies. [Link]
Multiple shots of the building right now available from Gawker.
Update 2: Stranger than fiction - blame the Yankees?
New York Yankees manager Joe Torre says the plane that crashed into a building in Manhattan is registered to team pitcher Cory Lidle[Link]
What could be more all American than that? Maybe it will put an end to all the speculation that this is somehow terror related.
Update 3: It is Cory Lidle’s plane. While this was a tragedy where 2-4 people may have died, I feel no guilt for the relief coursing through my veins right now. This was the only way that a plane crashing into a NYC building would have been conclusively decoupled from terrorism in its reporting - it was a famous person, an athlete, a YANKEE, whose plane it was. This will change the entire framing of the event.
ennis on October 11, 2006 03:51 PM in News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
On NY1 right now: Apparently an accident, not terrorism; small aircraft, maybe plane, maybe helicopter; crashed into an upper floor of an apartment building facing the East River; two reported fatalities.
Just heard about this too (immediately posted it on the News Tab here) and i sincerely hope it was just an accident. About to head into the city myself for a gala, thanks for the advice and be safe everybody
I knew Steinbrenner was furious over losing to the Tigers, but not this mad.
FAA is confirming it's a small plane, not a helicopter.
Updates from Gothamist. And Ennis, according to one commenter there, the early TV news coverage is exactly what you might have predicted:
Yes, be careful tonight, everyone....
LOL
GO METS...game 1 baby!!
There are police helicopters in the air, the relentless whine of sirens. A scare there, for a moment. Ah, the age of scares.
But everything seems to be under control now.
Not that it ever is.
The din of all the choppers in the air right now is really eerie. I have a friend who works for Sothebys who was evacuated and says the flames have died down a lot and the smoke isn't bellowing out like it had before. 2 confirmed deaths so far. Sad but an accident as per NORAD & FAA. I always thought it was amazing that they allowed planes to fly over Manhattan post 9/11.
It's not only the national news networks; WNBC's guy was saying things to the effect of "I wonder how firefighters must've felt when they heard that they'd be fighting a fire in a building hit by a plane. Echos of 9/11?"
Also, the AP initially reported, "Police say an aircraft has crashed into a building on Manhattan's Upper East Side at 72nd Street and York Avenue. It is near Rockefeller Center." Wha??!?! (They've changed it since the report broke.)
a light bulb jus went off above my head
today is 10/11
Yeah I was all livid over it too. I was like didn't someone at least check a map to see where Rockfeller Center is from 72nd street?
More comments from Gothamist:
First: "[the] anchor on CNN just said that the building is located "on East 72nd street; about mid-way between Wall Street and UPSTATE NEW YORK."" [at least this one is just garden-variety dumb, rather than fear-mongering by suggesting a nearby terrorist target.]
Second: "10-11-06. Read that date upside down." [Riiight.]
Scary! Thanks for the headsup.
Yeah, they got it mixed up with Rockefeller University, which is in fact in that area.
I work two blocks from the crash site and walked over there earlier before all of the large police command vehicles showed up. Traffic has been closed off, and there are lots of emergency vehicles around. Phone service is still out, so if you are trying to get in touch with friends/loved ones here, you may have to wait.
Peace all.
Some pictures here (not from me).
AP, meet Google Maps.
True dat, double true.
Correct. Rockefeller, Sloan-Kettering and Cornell Med School are all here.
>>>"10-11-06. Read that date upside down." [Riiight.]
damn..how to they come up with these things...
i go to hunter college on 68th & lexington, they cancelled class and we could hear the sirens. earlier we could see the smoke. and it doesn't help that it's cloudy and overcast. eerie.
"10-11-06. Read that date upside down."
freaky
90-11-01?
Ok, yeah...so the terrorists are now taking out CONDOS on the UES? C'mon people, seriously. If this is true, then they must hate the real estate market even more than I do. I can just picture it now:
"Osama, we are having a terrible time setting up our sleeper cell in Manhattan."
"Why? Security is so tight?"
"No. Actually, it's...rent controls."
"Ahhhha...hmmm. Well. I have a plan!"
Just because CNN likes getting itself all into a lather doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow suit.
New York Yankees manager Joe Torre says the plane that crashed into a building in Manhattan is registered to team pitcher Cory Lidle.
Could this be related to their horrible loss this weekned?
Shuffle the numbers around...or add the first two digits. 9 + 0 = !!! OMG! It is true. This is eerie.
What's up with the whole "The plane was a Cirrus 20, which has a parachute for emergencies" bit?
The emergency chute is for the whole plane in case of catastrophic engine failure at high altitudes. I wouldn't really expect it to work too well after the plane hit a building at 220mph and burst into flames.
I'm not worried about it being anything other than an accident. I'm a bit concerned that other people might assume that it's terrorism, and I'll have to deal with the corresponding sh*t, which I'm not looking forward to.
Update: NY Times says "Yankees Pitcher Cory Lidle Was Killed in the Plane Crash, High-Ranking City Official Says"
The headline have changed to "Yankees pitcher feared dead."
Well, there goes my theory that it was a Sox fan.
Wow that's really just surreal...
This just in: Dinesh D'Souza Blames Yankees' Last Loss and Cory Litle's Last Flight on Liberal Leftists! Extry Extry! Read all about it!
Salil you're acting like the CNN of sarcasm!
Salil, I suspect I'm not the only New Yorker who finds your humor about the crash completely unwanted.
>>I knew Steinbrenner was furious over losing to the Tigers, but not this mad
so, he did have a hand in this....
Show Salil some love, BB. He's making fun of the pundits, not the crash.
so i'm in my apartment on york ave just 10 blocks away from the crash. I smell smoke and hear sirens but i'm consumed with work and defending dinesh d'souza so i pay no notice. my mom calls (naturally) and I hear worry in her voice when she says "Manju?" i think she should have been relieved at that point hey, i live on the same damn street as the crash so i won't quibble...it's not like the time she woke me up in venezuala at 4 in the morning because princess diana just died, and naturally, she thought i was dead too.
anyway, it was raining hard by the time i got down there and the streets were blocked off around 73rd an york. so i didn't see much. I saw anderson cooper though. 2 chinese ladies looked at me funny...they probably thought i was a NY Ynnkee pitcher.
Yeah, dude. BB, did you not read the previous post?! C'mon, man...lighten up.
He didnt play in the whole series. Someone took it to heart!
dang gina, that was funny
perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but this sounds just like the "fear" responses I heard/read about on 9-11, etc. this makes it sound like "uh oh, a small plane crashed in NYC...the sky is falling...better call everyone..." does someone call all of their loved ones everytime they read about a car, bus, etc., crash?
just like automobile crashes happen every so often, things in the air will crash and fall down, and NOT have anything to do with OBL and crew. i'm tired of this over, fear-fostered (thanks GOP) response to everything...shoot first, ask questions later.
Heh heh:
and hopefully no one follows suit of this loser doing a sad "Jon Stewart" routine
Jaa Louis:
I've got my own site to handle stupidity. What I come up with is mine-all-mine, so don't try and attribute my stupidity to that guy. Give credit where credit is due, otherwise I'll accuse you of channeling Dubya whenever you type.
The first reports that came out of 9/11 eeirely said the same thing, "a small plane crashed into WTC". Panic was justified.
whew:
I don't really think panic was justified then, either. Panic is blind, unreasoned, and frequently damaging. And I definitely don't think the US should panic whenever something blows up or crashes...or at any other time. But that's just me; clearly plenty of people are thrilled to start with the flag-planting, heroic-silhouetted-figures-in-black-and-white-photograph-montages, and "we-shall-prevail-boy-this-shit-is-serious-ism" anytime anything that remotely resembles a terrorist attack happens.
Are there that few people who actually believe another terrorist attack on US soil is that unlikely? If not, then...has no one done any emotional loin-girding in the last 5 years? None at all? We're not the slightest bit wiser as a nation? I say this as I move back to the nation's capital: I remember very clearly what happened on 9/11, and it wasn't just NYC, remember? I'm just tired of people taking every goddamn truck backfire as an opportunity to trot out the same tired crap: raise the threat level to Beige ("Remain calm...remain very calm...in fact, just go to sleep"), draw analogies to 9/11, begin a new ridiculously-titled-scroll-bar on CNN ("FEAR? DOES IT SCARE YOU YET?"), start accusing the other political party of being "weak on terror" when clearly the whole goddamn country is ridiculously good with terror.
Terror: we have it down COLD.
Dealing with terror? Not even a little bit.
So pardon me if I need to laugh at this shit. Because I really...just...can't take it seriously anymore.
Panic is never justified. That is my only observation for today.
We all need a bit of a reality check and put this accident into context. TWO people died and however this may resonate post 9/11 the 655,000 Iraqis killed as a result of the US led invasion is a far bigger tragedy and yet I see no Sepia mention or write ups. Check the digits we're taking more than half a million deaths. Desi's gotta get militant not sit on our brown arses playin' identity politics!
Check the article in the UK Guardian paper http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1892888,00.html
The 655,000 estimate comes from a Lancet study. I think we need a sepia e-journal club. Link the study: the last Lancet study was controversial and many experts disputed the results, including the official UN count was different. Let's read the study collectively, read the methods section, read the results. And discuss away....actually, it would be a valuable experience if we did this. THere are many knowledgeable commenters, and if we took it as a serious intellectual problem, and not a partisan squabble, it would be incredibly valuable. YOu don't think the media, Fox or CNN-types, would really do such a study justice, do you? I just don't think it's within the scope of journalism, even very good journalism, to do such a thing, but Saheli or Siddhartha might have different thoughts.
well, tell me then, MD, how many deaths will get your panties in a wad? 30,000? Oh wait, that's what Bush used recently... a "comma" right? is a half-million an exclamation mark? 30k deaths (or any number, for that matter) is a number too high...
I remember way back when during lifeguard training when all the instructors would drill into our minds...the main reason people drown is because they lose their wits and panic. We act like a herd of sheep (reminds me of that Farside cartoon from nearly 20 years ago where a bunch of sheep are going off a cliff just because every other sheep is doing it...) when we panic.
No Desh - how rude you are. I didn't say I didn't care about Iraqi deaths. I said let's look at the data carefully and pursue the truth. What was the point of your comment other than to accuse me of not caring about innocents? Sorry, but you have done nothing to add to this conversation, nothing to add to the truth, and nothing but 'play' to the choir. Clap, clap, huzzah, applause. That has taught me.
That this comment section is about polemics, gotchas, gimmes, and insults.
And in the words of 'Fez' of The Seventies Show: I say, Good Day!
Like Salil, I must protest converting all news into a terrorism story. It's a bad filter, it's why I can't stand TV news, and it helps elect Cheneys. Now if you'll excuse me I've got to heat up some daal chawal of freedom.
If our loved ones are around the affected area yeah we do. We watched 2 planes go thru buildings killing thousands, 2 months later another one crashed in Queens killing everyone and freaking everyone out. A few years before that one crashed in Long Island. A few years before that a plane overshot the runway at LaGuardia. Plane crashes are ugly and they scare us. Is that so difficult to comprehend that when you hear of a plane crash you think of your loved ones and want to reach out to them? WTF
We watched 2 planes go thru buildings killing thousands
When was that? I must have missed that.
[blockquote]Like Salil, I must protest converting all news into a terrorism story. It's a bad filter, it's why I can't stand TV news, and it helps elect Cheneys. Now if you'll excuse me I've got to heat up some daal chawal of freedom.[/blockquote]
But a plane crashing into a building in NY is just too deja vu - how can such powerful imagery not trigger 9/11 sentiments? It would have made Ennis look like a clumsy messenger if he hadn't said that there was no indication of terrorism, especially considering this ia a desi blog where we often discuss 9/11 scapegoating. From THIS point on, however, now that we have something beyond imagery and speculation and we know that it's actually some true-blue-America's-favorite-pastime-celebrity kinda guy, I agree that we shouldn't use the terrorism filter to discuss the story.
Agreed. Panic is never a good strategy
Light planes crash into buildings every year, even in Manhattan recently. The Empire State alone has had several planes plow into it. This is slightly more relevant than the news channels hyping 'NO TERRORIST CONNECTION' every time someone holds up a gumball machine at an airport, but just barely.
The aircraft is question was, as a quick search would have shown, a Cirrus SR-20. It does not supposedly have a parachute. It actually has a parachute. For the entire plane.
Weird how today was 10/11 when it happpened...
I don't even live in New York and I can understand the panic and the instinctual grasp of terrorism as an explanation. What makes it even more ironic is that it was a Yankee who flew the plane.
It's irresponsible for the media and for politicans to manipulate panic, but to say that ordinary people have no right to feel it seems kind of harsh for people who have literally and bravely been living under the spectre of terrorist attacks for the past five years. New Yorkers aren't alone in their fear, they're joined by residents of Baghdad and Kabul and Tel Aviv and too many places to count...but I don't think denying a psychological fear/state of mind makes it go away.
Sending out calm, peaceful vibes out from a tiny little country too unimportant to even be considered for acts of terrorism...
must have been a freaky day in NYC.
I hadn't heard of any, and I definitely hadn't heard of any like this.
More importantly, I was sure it wasn't terrorism, the government was sure it wasn't terrorism, however that didn't make me any less concerned that others would think it was terrorism, and that tensions might not rise accordingly. That was the point of the story.
No Desh:
You're reading it wrong. I was just 1000 ft from where a plane crashed into a building. I could smell smoke in my lobby, and four people immediately died. All cell phone service ceased, landline service was intermittent, and the only calls my colleagues and I received on the landline were from worried friends and family members making sure that we were ok. Part of what made these callers panic is that they couldn't reach us on our cells.
I wasn't advocating that people should call everyone under the sun in a chicken little scenario, but I know what it's like to worry about someone, regardless of how rational the justification may be. I was instead saying that if you are calling to check on someone and are having difficulty with the phonecall, don't panic; the phones are just out.
Salil and Kurma:
I look forward to spinning the death of four people in your cities into jokes. Ha! Wouldn't that be a hoot! Maybe include the death of a sports star, too? Ha! I bet that'd stretch my e-p33n.
The fact is that I doubt you two will ever see how tasteless and morbid that humor seemed to me, so swift as it was on the heels of somone's death.
I try to fit '9-11', 'remember 9-11', '9-11 changed everything', '9-11' into my conversations at least 50 times everyday.
I hadn't heard of any, and I definitely hadn't heard of any like this.
If the point was to reduce tension, I'm not sure the boldface and the highlighting and the TERRORISM in all caps helps ;)
Let's not bias the data. 99.5% of horrible vehicular crashes are accidents.
Off for my Evening Walk of Liberty. It's even called a Constitutional.
Small plane hits Milan skyscraper - accident
Small plane hits LA apartment building - accident
There are many more like this.
But this is what you said in #57...
I guess you must have read about it recently then. Or maybe somebody read it to you.
Manish - has there been a single plane into building crash in NYC since 9/11? I'm pretty sure there hasn't.
It was in bold b/c most people's reaction to the news would be to worry about terrorism, the same way it would be if you saw an exploded Bombay train. Remember, this was a fire visible across NYC ...
well, tell me then, MD, how many deaths will get your panties in a wad? 30,000? Oh wait, that's what Bush used recently... a "comma" right? is a half-million an exclamation mark? 30k deaths (or any number, for that matter) is a number too high...
Excellent point however I think PETA and it's shenanigans are a far more interesting topic for some posters on this board. Put a nekkid woman in a cage with tiger stripes-even better.
Ennis
I am just glad I don't have to have a full cavity exam now. Whew!
I guess you must have read about it recently then. Or maybe somebody read it to you.
Dont be a spoilsport :)
I can't think of a single example between 9/11 and this, and your cases didn't apply. In fact, the only NYC example you gave was from 61 years ago.
Seems like that Tampa incident was not an accident:
Exactly! I have been living in ny for over 20 years, and the planes crashing into the towers was the first time I had heard of such a thing. My first reaction then (and *I* think a lot of other people's as well) was that it must have been an accident.
You can't blame people for feeling/thinking a certain way when they hear about something like this. We're human beings; we panic. I don't know where such a line of thinking comes into play :
Now, I don't mean people should go and run amok or take to the streets. But there is fear, panic, sadness...etc because you are not sure of what's happening.
Abhi, I only agree with you in a qualified way -- sometimes, panic is entirely justified. Especially in stereo.
I have been living in ny for over 20 years, and the planes crashing into the towers was the first time I had heard of such a thing
Try reading the news ;)
has there been a single plane into building crash in NYC since 9/11?
Of course. Just two months later:
After that, there were two helicopter crashes in Manhattan's East River.
The year before 9/11, a Concorde crashed into a hotel in Paris and a large passenger jet crashed into houses in Patna (same link).
Shall I continue?
Of all the plane crashes every year, an infinitesmally small percentage have any terrorism connection. Most are pilot error or mechanical failure.
Please tone down the hysteria.
Um... which one of these exactly is the plane crashing into a nyc building?
Yes, please.
You're missing the point entirely. I knew it was an accident, but other people (with some reason) were likely to think it wasn't. I wanted to warn our readers to watch their backs last night, because of the possibility of an increase in hate crimes. Luckily, I was wrong.
Acknowledging social irrationality is not the same thing as giving in, addressing it does not mean conceding to it.
None of the NY cases you gave were anywhere close, btw. The airplane crash in Queens was a plane blowing up midair, not flying directly into a tall building. Helicopters flying into the river are again a very different thing from planes flying into a building and setting it on fire. Like it or not, this event had a 9/11 resonance, and that was worth adressing.
Dear JoAT: Why so indignant ?
I must also say that the "We watched..." irked me; as if New Yorkers have a monopoly over trauma, but that,I guess, is really a marginal point. The more important thing is that the chap who wrote "...the sky is falling" was making a perfectly reasonable appeal that whether or not you've watched planes go through buildings, getting into a terrible panic is to give in to atavism. While people will react irrationally, one certainly does not want to defend irrationlity - and certainly not via a "I can understand how they feel" defence; right ?
which one of these exactly is the plane crashing into a nyc building?
You're not a New Yorker, are you?
Where Queens is (hint: it's in NYC).
oops. wrote that all within the blockquote tags. Sorry! Quote should have ended after the 2nd line.
You do that by bolding "Be careful," not THERE IS NO INDICATION OF TERRORISM.
The precise vector made little difference to the people who died in the buildings.
If you click the links, you'll find the same 9/11 hyperventilation over the Queens crash and the choppers as over the Yankee pitcher's light plane. And it all helps keep Dubya in power.
Salil, that link was to an incident in Italy. And the 2002 incident was a very different thing, as I wrote above. A plane fell out of the sky, it didn't fly into a building.
I agree that most such incidents are non-terrorist related. I also think that in this case, given the precautions in NYC, and certain group's repeated attempts to destroy tall buildings in NYC, that the resonance was there, whether we wanted it to be or not. So I addressed it up front, and then told people to be careful.
Why do people keep assuming that I was panicking?
Sure. And neither does dying in a car crash. But to us standing outside, certain things look like some things and not other things. We're talking about a plane flying into a tall building in NYC, and it catching on fire.
I bolded "no indication of terrorism" b/c when I first blogged it, there was next to no information, and that was critical. If you read the story hours later, you wouldn't have had the same impression.
Have you forgotten the Air India bombing? Or the plane which exploded over Long Island Sound, prompting allegations of a surface-to-air missile? Plane explosions are linked with terrorism more commonly than planes into buildings.
Your phrasing did exactly what the MSM media did with the Queens accident, and it's irresponsible:
Small plane crashes into building: your first thought should be pilot error. Even in New York. The current phrasing is a distortion of the facts.
All caps, boldface, highlighting a full 25% of the story, using the word 'terror' repeatedly. But shoot, maybe it's just me.
A small personal plane hit a building, not a commercial jet. And that happens all the time.
i'm sorry but when i say nyc, i mean manhattan ... mea culpa
its funny how you i had bolded 'houses' and 'queens' in my comment to point out that it was not 'buildings' or 'nyc' but you have just emphasized 'queens' now,
are houses and buildings interchangeable now?as an aside, this crash in the residential area in queens did create initial 'panic' (i don't know if i should use this word since i don't think it means the same to me as it does to others here) b/c it happened so soon after the crashes into the towers,
but despite all of this, i am sure you can come up helicopters going down into rivers or student pilots crashing in staten island to prove that when we hear about a "small plane crashing to a building in manhattan", on the news, we should not skip a beat because that is the kind of thing that happens everyday here
so instead of such a pointless back and forth, i will simply say that ennis' post was necessary
In Dec 2002 a small plane crashed into the Federal Reserve Building in Miami.
Which grants my point-- people heard 'plane crashes into Queens buildings' and jumped to 'terrorism.' You're smarter than that. Even a cursory look at the crash photo should have told you it was a small plane, not a jetliner.
Sure. If you own a station wagon, live in Idaho and vote Republican out of fear that your local petting zoo will be attacked by Osama bin Laden.
Mrs Nigger-Baiter: Oochy coochy. (the son smiles a little tight smile) Look at him laughing... ooh, he's a chirpy little fellow. Isn't he a chirpy little fellow ... eh? eh? Does he talk Does he talk, eh?
Son: Of course I talk, I'm Minister for Overseas Development.
Mrs Nigger-Baiter: Ooh, he's a clever little boy - he's a clever little boy. (gets out a rattle) Do you like your rattle? Do you like your rattle? Look at his little eyes following it ... look at his iggy piggy piggy little eyeballs eh... oo... he's got a tubby tumotum. Oh, he's got a tubby tum-tum.
Son: (whilst Mrs Nigger-Baiter is talking) Mother, could I have a quick cup of tea please. I have an important statement on Rhodesia to make in the Commons at six.
(Sound of an explosion out of vision. Cut to reveal Mrs Nigger-Baiter's chair charred and smoking. Mrs Nigger-Baiter is no longer there. The upholstery is smouldering gently.)
Mrs Shazam: Oh, Mrs Nigger-Baiter's exploded.
Son: Good thing, too.
Mrs Shazam: She was my best friend.
Son: Oh, mother, don't be so Sentimental. Things explode every day.
I think it might be.
When Ennis' post went up, there was little info available. We were going by the info that a plane crashed into a NYC building. Had he not mentioned the fact, very clearly, that this wasn't terrorist related, we would have had 100 comments asking about whether it was related to terrorism. I think his point about this was needed so that people could focus on the real message behind his post - to be careful in case people out there associate this with terrorism and come after the browns.
If he hadn't mentioned that it was a small plane in the very first line, perhaps. And I'm asking all 100 of you to think.
The sarcasm would fall flat in the face of the Oxford English Dictionary, but luckily you already granted the point.
I'm not saying Ennis lives in Boise, and I'm not saying he doesn't; but you might want to ask him offline.
There are five instances of the word terrorism in a single passage in this post. That's irresponsible. I could just watch The View if I wanted terror hype and reaction shots instead of hard news.
huh? i think you should stick to coming up with crashes in milan and paris and stuff from the 60s ... i have no idea what you are talking about
That was the message behind his post? Look, I suppose it's only natural to connote planes flying in NY buildings with terrorism, despite the supreme sang-froid that posters here would like to affect. As such the supposedly sobering statements such as
strike me as absurd,if only for stating the excruciatingly obvious.What I do find distrubing though is the whole cautionary tone of Ennis's post. "watch our backs?" dude, sometimes, in addition to waiting a bit for the whole story, it would help if this you weren't so reflexive about posting your personal fears on the internet. Needless to say, this amounts to fear-mongering, despite what you say about it being akin to some public-safety announcement.
Sikhs were attacked/harassed immediately on 9/11 - you may have all the time in the world to contemplate your every move, but there are a lot of ignorant mofos out there who react immediately to any rumor. When a Sikh doctor is harassed while on the ground trying to help 9/11 victims, that goes to show that sometimes it's good to be cautious. If the news hadn't come out so fast about this being an accident, you better believe my husband's commute home from the city wouldn't have been very pleasant.
Because what you wrote:
Was just pretty rude. You talk about people panicking and running around like anyone did it. That didn't even happen when 9/11 happened. Asking people to not have any responses and telling them they are stupid for feeling apprehension about an event is unreasonable.
It's unfortunate that the media turns any small event into a "it's not terrorism" circus but the power of suggestion can be disheartening. When the bombings happened in London and Mumbai we all panicked and called everyone we knew. You don't know too many details and if you aren't physically there you will call to find out.
Two planes and two choppers crash in NYC after 9/11, the media calls it all terrorism, a plane crashed into the Empire State, and you're stuck in Flower Power. Nice.
'Ask Ennis where he lives' is not a trick question.
Nope, only commercial passenger jets. Look at the very first line of the post:
A small airplane has crashed...
So terrorism can only be associated with large scale events? If a single terrorist intentionally flew a plane into a small building, or a suicide bomber walked into a mall - would that not be considered terrorism? Because those events are obviously much smaller than a huge plane flying into a building.
When Ennis' post went up, there was little info available. We were going by the info that a plane crashed into a NYC building. Had he not mentioned the fact, very clearly, that this wasn't terrorist related, we would have had 100 comments asking about whether it was related to terrorism.
I dont believe so. Lets give people more credit. As our President might say, when history is written, 9-11 wont be more than a comma.
i guess the issue for me is the evidence you use
this sentence is so misleading, and i don't know why you insist on using this to back up your point, when it backs up mine?
yes, a plane crashed into houses in queens WEEKS after 9/11 ... are we honestly wondering why people may have thought it might be terrorist related?
yes, a plane crashed into the empire state building OVER 50 YEARS AGO ... i don't know what the initial reaction was then
yes, 2 helicopters crashed in the east river after 9/11 ... why is this even included here?
and yes, yesterday another small plane hit a building on the island of manhattan ...
please stop the rhetoric that it happens all the time and if you don't think so, you're a flower child
I'm going to back up Sonia Kaur's last three comments (#94, 100, and 104).
There is far too much overanalysing going on here on SM, in typical desi style -- it seems to be a repeated pattern of behaviour that occasionally increases markedly on this blog from time to time, and it's been happening again in recent times. Look at what happened when JOAT made that comment about sexual harassment from other ethnic groups -- people took her comment out of context and the next thing you knew, there were posts on top of posts piling on and JOAT having to give clarifications which were practically legal documents in their tone and detail.
Context, people. And common sense. Both are very important.
There were reports of an aircraft crashing into a building in New York. Details were initially fuzzy. Given the precedent of 9/11, of course the first thing many people will think of is "Oh no, not again". The more level-headed individuals will leave room for doubt with regards to the possibility of this being pilot-error or some kind of mechanical malfunction, but that terrible precedent will still be what huge numbers of people will immediately think of. Hell, it's the first thing many people here in London thought yesterday when they initially heard what had happened and saw the pictures on CNN etc.
If there are reports of an explosion on an underground train here in London, most British people's immediate reaction will be to think of 7/7. You will not necessarily have panicking Brits streaming into the streets all over the UK, screaming "It's the jihadis again !", but in one corner of their minds, their initial thought will be the possibility of another terrorist attack, at least until all the relevant facts come to light in order to confirm or refute their concerns.
This is just human nature. And unfortunately, it's a sign of the times.
It's not right to lynch Ennis just because he tried to "do a good thing" and let people (especially those at work, who will have internet access but not necessarily access to the major television news channels) know a) that there was an accident in NYC with, at first glance anyway, ominous overtones of "the last time it happened", and b) that it was most definitely not linked to terrorism. In fact, him typing "there is no indication of terrorism" in capital letters and in bold font was the very first thing my eye was drawn to in his article, and it's probably the most important part of what he wrote, considering what many people may have initially thought of.
There is no need for anyone here to tie himself (or herself) into knots regarding Ennis's article. The contents and the tone actually make perfect sense, considering the nature of the incident, the most notable precedent for it during the past 5 years, and -- unfortunately -- the era we currently live in.
It's not anything more complicated than that.
however, Ennis's immediate response in his post is not cool. But then again, it's not like he's journalist or anything...
however, Ennis's immediate response in his post is not cool.
It's so not cool to think that hate crimes are, like, real and stuff.
you use helicopter crashes, houses = buildings, but have a problem with someone mixing 'small plane' and 'commercial jet'?
by the way, 'a small plane' was the exact description given in the initial reports of the crash into the wtc ...
we gotta love hindsight
his post was about being cautious of hate crimes in the event that some try to associate this event with terrorism. so what was hysterical/not cool about it?
This has got to be one of the strangest conversations in my brief monkey-memory. Further proof that you humans are weird.
Manish, someone needs to take a deep breath. The media discourse about this news event was already being shaped long before Ennis posted a word. For him to respond to that -- and obviously, he is implicitly being critical of that discourse in the process -- is hardly "irresponsible." On the other hand, given the message he intended to convey, for him to have ignored that discourse altogether arguably might well have been. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you really seem to be saying is that this story was irrelevant to be posting about at all -- that the concern about public assumptions about terrorism and potential backlash to our communities is just something he should have ignored and wished away.
And mind you, some of us are more vulnerable to backlash than others, and just to put a finer point on it, some of us are more vulnerable to backlash than either you or me -- so you may not be best situated to judge the potential consequences. Which leads me to....
Not sure I understand what you are implying with this one. Surely you don't think that hate crimes and hysteria don't happen here in New York, do you? Of course you don't. And you shouldn't. So what are you getting at?
Rajni the Monkey --
Sigh. Ain't that the truth.
Let me simplify.
When you know from the get-go that the aircraft was a small plane, it is inaccurate and irresponsible to whip up public fear by mentioning terrorism.
That's fact, not rhetoric. Whether it happened precisely on E. 72nd St. for your viewing convenience is irrelevant: small planes crash into buildings due to pilot error all the time, and it has nothing to do with terrorism.
This kind of coverage in the MSM got Dubya re-elected.
And that has ever happened in the U.S. when?
See, houses are buildings, but small planes are not commercial jets. I think you're confusing the word 'building' with the word 'skyscraper.'
Precisely. The initial 9/11 reaction by those who hadn't witnessed it was that it was most likely a small plane and it was most likely an accident. If you look at the entire history of plane crashes before 9/11 and after 9/11, that was an accurate assumption.
I don't worry about you being comforted by "intellect", "reason" or "facts" ;)
Quite the opposite. Look at how it's presented-- boldface, highlight, repetition of 'terrorism.' Media research shows people discard words which negate and focus on the word itself, in this case terrorism. It's akin to 'please do not think about a pink elephant.' It should not even enter the post. It's irrelevant. Including terrorism in a post about every plane crash, the way the MSM does, is a massive distortion of facts.
This post is presented much like MSM evening news. And this blog is smarter than that.