the single, 25 yr.+, independent-thinking desi girl and is why I love to find solidarity with my single desi sisters - whether in over chai, or virtually by reading my favorite desi gal bloggers ( Rupa, TheBarMaid, Chick Pea, brimful, SP, to name a few).

I'm not at all quibbling with your rollcall since I read all those righteous babes , but I find it amusing that you neglected to find solidarity with the obvious and original "single, 25+ indie-thinking desi girl" ...or is there still beef in the bunker? If there is, for shame. Can't we strong women ever get along?

Anyway maybe I'm the only one who remembers (probably, since she barely updates her blue blog and the post I'm linking was memorable to me for very personal reasons), but over three years ago, ANNA was "dishing" about this very topic and doing it very well. Nothing personal against you. I enjoy your explorations of accessible subjects which are surefire threadmakers...like this one. My money's on 300+...takers?

- Don't tell her you read Sepia Mutiny. She'll thing you're deep and intellectual rather than a raw animal of a man, and that you might care about culture and stuff. Leave some fun in it for her by letting her think you're as much of a conversion project as any other dude.

hahaha thats so true! its also really sad that theres such an inherent distrust between desi guys and girls, and not just ABCD women. Its like every move the guys make, theyre testing you on your decency. Giving in to natural urges just isnt allowed, because I think to some degree desi guys dont hit on desi girls for flings,(thats reserved for the non desi girls) but its like theyre testing them for marriage to some degree. And thats awful ecause desi girls are forced into a mould they dont necessarily belong to, at least for appearances sake. And i think desi girls would treat the guys the same way. I dont know if its innately about some greater degree of respect or simply the fear of being forced by parents into a commitment just on the basis of race. And let me tell you, desi girls from india/Pak/SL whatever are no more 'moral' than ABCD girls. That's a big illusion (unless she's from some small town and barely been allowed out of the house).

or is there still beef in the bunker? If there is, for shame.

"still"? I wish someone would have let me known the who, what, when where, why... If there is drama in the bunker it is definatly not of the petty girl fight sort that people like to hope for- but rather the meatier fight club type that involves lawyers and LAPD. ;-)

My goal? To get more than the 441 comments on the last blog...because, I know we can...! :-)

have you also discovered that the minute you discover youre PERFECTLY comfortable being single and happy forever is when someone eligible walks across your path?

I think to some degree desi guys dont hit on desi girls for flings

Wow, I must be in the minority on that.

Make sure to make the guy chase you a little bit and space things out accordingly

Wow, the written equivalent of the whole 'running around the tree bit...'

Maybe this is an age thing because I'm in a slightly different age range, but what I find about brown-on-brown dating is the whole saga that takes place, right from the first meeting to the will-they-won't-they 'friendly' talks/texts/emails to the big drawn out slowness of the whole relationship to the couple-y-PDA-ness... relationships just seem much more immature, dramatic and publicly shared than any other combo I know of.

Even though I know I'm guilty of this myself I do think we are much harder on people of our own culture, mainly because our parents, relatives and entire community has made our impression of inter-community relationships fraught with crazy images from pimp-bling wearing wannabe gangstas with chest hair galore through to arranged marriage stereotypes to smothering, obnoxious doctors/investment bankers/engineers...

The main thing that has put me off desi couples I know though is that the girls seem to revolve their lives around their 'man.' Ick.

have you also discovered that the minute you discover youre PERFECTLY comfortable being single and happy forever is when someone eligible walks across your path?

Negatory.

cookie cutter indian girls are hard to find amidst all you indie-whatevers.

joking!

yeah, desi relationships are pretty immature, because there is too much he-said she-said drama.
also, i think if youre the type of person who enjoys flings on a regular basis, then you will have flings irrespective of race. But if you're not, or you've been brought up good and proper scared of the implications of dating by your parents stuck-in-the-sixties, then you're more likely to limit your fling/relational experiences to white guys, or even desis outside your family/community's regulr contact range

Dear SM indie-whatevers helpline,

Punjabi girls are impossible. Northies are patakhas macacas. Must I go South for love shove, pyar vyar? Being a Northie boy, can I go Southie?

Sincerely,

Confused and might go Southie
Anytown, USA

Yes, NvM, Confucius say you "Must go South for love". If you don't believe me, check this out (from the News tab): here

taz:

i haven't had a chance to see the video as i'm running out the door..but read your post ;)...

first of all:

I love to find solidarity with my single desi sisters - whether over chai, or virtually by reading my favorite desi gal bloggers ( Rupa, TheBarMaid, Chick Pea, brimful, SP, to name a few).

secondly:

Never tell a desi guy that you are really a doctor

for example i met this guy..and he told me i was the intimidator... how a boy can be intimidated by a measley legume, i will never understand... i just laughed...

thirdly:

Don't date a jobless bum. Or desi doctors.

female docs are looked upon as the 'intimidator' as above.. a lot of times.. as i have experienced and so have a hell of a lot of my indian female doctor friends.. guy desi docs are cherished... and yes i argue this point with my brother (who is a doc) all the time..and he concurs as well..

okay over and out from the beans world..gotta get to work! more might come later on during the day...
thanks taz for making my morning and making me laugh!

I had my fair share of dating desi guys (prompted to do so by family)... One particularly stands out, this being an highly educated guy asked me what my hobbies were (i mean really? do people discuss hobbies anymore?), at that time i had just taken up the sport of fencing and attempted to tell him how i'm just learning the sport etc, all he did was look at me in fear, first and the last time i saw him. Now i am just married, my husband is a desi (never been to desh but has tendencies to say how he loves his desh). He is the eptiome of ying and yang between eastern and western values.

what my hobbies were (i mean really? do people discuss hobbies anymore?

What? Why not? Is it more suave to just "read" potential hobbies as the convo goes along? Am I not reading signals as I should if I ask? Am I uncool? Help.

no von mises:

did you read my connection between basketball and diwali.. where the heck is my draft tip ;)? well hobbies are are discussed.. because who the hell wants to talk about what you do all day in your career (that can be a bit boring).. hobbies make a person multi-faceted... so yes hobbies are discussed..usually not asked in the form 'what are you hobbies'... more like 'what do you like to do in your free time outside of slaving away'?

What do ABD girls think about dating FOB guys. I got the "How dare you ask me out" look from her. NOT cool.

usually not asked in the form 'what are you hobbies'... more like 'what do you like to do in your free time outside of slaving away'?

I blog! and I ... ummmm ... work out! Who has time for anything else ;)

i find meeting boys at desi events particularly difficult. the men usually just stand around staring at the brown sugar and dare not make a move. if a girl tries to make conversation - she is instantly declared as being "too forward" and slutty and therefore off the list. but we cant jsut stand around sipping drinks and staring at each other all night. you have to come out of your shell at some point!

I blog! and I ... ummmm ... work out! Who has time for anything else ;)

dear bloggers.. this is ennis biodata speaking out.. if interested please email chick 'cupid' pea and i will screen and send him the ones that make the 'cut'..anyone out there fit these 'hobby' descriptions? being hawt is a requirement ;)...

Oh,how I wish you posted this earlier. These golden 'Dating While Desi Rules (For Girls)' are priceless! On retrospect..I could have really avoided being the loser magnet.

interesting, this talk of desi-dating.
i have a feeling i am a little older than most of you, or at least i am out of the dating game. one of the things i have never been able to shake is to look at desi women as "sister" like. i grew up in winnipeg manitoba and my parents were one of the first wave of south asians there. its a small, cold city (well, not so small anymore) in the middle of the canadian prairie. when i was young, there were about 7 desi families in the whole city. going to mandir was to go to someones basement. to this day i feel like i should know all the macaca families in winnipeg b/c during my formative years, i did. so of course everyone was uncle, anti and by extension didi and dada. dating in that scene would have been hell, come to think of it.

i'm almost 40 now, and SM keeps me hip to what's going on. its great to see topics like this discussed in this way and to find out how we as a community are changing and engaging with these issues. i moved to toronto about 10 years ago, and one thing that i loved was how all the brown young people would hang out together, smoking behind the high school and speaking tamil or what have you. this was sooooooooo far removed from my teenage years.

so for better or for worse i somehow conditioned myself to look outside the community for crushes and dating. thereby passing by all the lovely desi women i knew or saw. oh well. my loss. i am now engaged to a lovely german woman. who loves rasogolla. in hindsight, i see that this is veeeeeeeeeery important.

my 2 cents.
d

Are there other rules to Dating while Desi that I don't know about?

There are no rules. Do what feels right; it'll all work out. (At least that's what's worked for almost everyone I I know, including those of us who've dated/married desi.)

Hey, what do the oh-so-graciously marrieds know about dating :P

How about: "Be Honest"

worked for me =)

Hey, what do the oh-so-graciously marrieds know about dating :P

I know that you should date your significant other for as LONG as possible before you get married!

Hey, what do the oh-so-graciously marrieds know about dating :P

Absolutely nothing, I admit. But wanted to make the point to not think too much, no matter what point in a relationship a person is in. (Hey, it works for us ;)).

How about: "Be Honest"

worked for me =)

*cough* bullshit *cough*

*cough* bullshit *cough*

Yea, I figured that comment wouldn't be well-received on this thread =)

for example i met this guy..and he told me i was the intimidator... how a boy can be intimidated by a measley legume, i will never understand... i just laughed...

Good heavens! The guys/girls all of you have met (or heard of at one remove) seem to belong to a wholly different demographic from those I knew while I was in the U.S.! Here's one weird thing: in the two separate almost-dating-but-not-quite situations I found myself in, both the women in question asked me to tell them something about any women I knew whom I greatly admired (I am male). At that time in my life, I knew five such women truly worthy of admiration. The common thread that linked them was that they were all, in a certain sense, resolute fighters. I suspect that they are what Chick Pea's guy would call "intimidators". However, in both cases, it turned out that I -- by the very act of knowing the aforesaid women (full disclosure: I was not romantically involved with any of these five) -- had, in these almost-to-be dates' eyes, become the "intimidator". One of them, in response to the story of one of the aforesaid five, went so far as to say, "I would've advised your friend to listen to her parents... She should have been more deliberate in thinking through the issues of a Hindu-Muslim marriage.." or something like that. WTF!?!

Here's my question: are the guys and girls one meets at parties thrown by those McMansion-dwelling, WSJ-reading desi "uncles" and "aunties" one is linked up with -- whether one wants to or not (!) -- through the desi grad-school network very, very different from the guys/girls all of you are referring to ?

it seems wrong getting dating tips from a gay brother.

ROFL @ #30. My exact thoughts :)

The walk itself gives it all away - but besides that, the short-vid is well made and you gotta commend the Shetty guy for the effort, because he kept up with OC scene than the Desi scene :)

Being honest is a sure-fire way to eternally being lonely and single :-D

I came to the US, when I was 15. I had all the FOB leanings that ABC gals detest. There were 4 desi girls in my class, and heck I asked them all out, and got total ignore to 'How dare you ask me out.' They damaged my already fragile teen ego by running into bathrooms when I approached them etc etc. Heck they were not even good looking gals...by desi standards. I was hip in the desh, and was firends with much better looking girl

Then there was this white gal who saw potential when I was a freshman in college. She noticed the BO thing and got me into the habit of using deodorant regularly. She bought me smart clothes. To cut the long story short, I started detesting desi ABC gals and dated only whites. If you talk to FOB's guys that landed here in their mid to uppere teens, most of them have had similar experience. They will either go white or a FOB gal from back home. Teen years are very fragile emotionally, and desi gals just crush it with their own insecurities.

Its no wonder I am married to a white gal, and get nasty stares from desi gals at desi gatherings.

Why are Desi and white the only choices?

Since when did being a doctor become a bad thing in the desi community? I might be biased since my parents are both doctors, but it seems to me it's actually the most desirable occupation to most desis. When I was in college, all the other desi kids thought I was weird because I wasn't a doctor/lawyer/engineer and I wasn't into bhangra or Bollywood. Even in family gatherings, people will always say things to my Mom about me like "Such a nice boy. It's too bad he's a writer" and other BS like that. Desi girls like guys with $$$. It's been ingrained in them since birth.

I for one would be happy to marry a female doctor who makes more money than me. Or any girl that makes more than me. What could be wrong with that? It doesn't really make a difference either way does it, I mean once you're married, I thought it doesn't matter where the money comes from. That's the way I was always taught.

She noticed the BO thing and got me into the habit of using deodorant regularly.

Those women...always trying to tinker with perfection...

Seriously, that's hilarious

have you also discovered that the minute you discover youre PERFECTLY comfortable being single and happy forever is when someone eligible walks across your path?

Since when did being a doctor become a bad thing in the desi community?

You know what I think? It's all about conformity. At some level everyone likes a bit of rebellion and non conformity. If you are all raised and socialise with people who say being a doctor is the norm and all you talk about at social gatherings is what speciality your son and daughter will go into, it's sexy to say 'Yo, fuck that, I'm going to be an actor/electrician/stripper/performance artist'. And the hearts and panties of thousands of brown teenage girls being brainwashed a la Kaavya Vishwanathan go aquiver.

"Then there's that non-ABCD non-FOB bunch. That group is really messed up"

Heyyyyy...

And just BLECH in general.

I should note that the desi girls whose hearts go aquiver will mostly marry the dude with £££ and $$$ whilst you languish teaching English to refugees and immigrants and dance naked in gay bars to pay the rent as you wait for your novel/film script to be recognised -- but in the meantime, you can at least say, you were a rebel, were 'a bit of rough'

Desi girls like guys with $$$.

I for one would be happy to marry a female doctor who makes more money than me. Or any girl that makes more than me. What could be wrong with that?

Spoken like a true desi guy.

If you talk to FOB's guys that landed here in their mid to uppere teens, most of them have had similar experience. They will either go white or a FOB gal from back home.

totally agree. Whats up with ABD girls giving the cold shoulder to FOBs. Maybe because not a lot of FOBs are doctors. Only engineers.

I should note that the desi girls whose hearts go aquiver will mostly marry the dude with £££ and $$$ whilst you languish teaching English to refugees and immigrants and dance naked in gay bars to pay the rent as you wait for your novel/film script to be recognised -- but in the meantime, you can at least say, you were a rebel, were 'a bit of rough'

Haha. Word. Though I'm not a writer because I want to get laid or impress anyone with my rebellion. I'm just too lazy for anything that requires math, manual labor or graduate education.

Dating Rule #1 for Desis: Date who you are attracted to, respect and admire.
Dating Rule #2 for Desis: Marry who you love.
Date Rule #3 for Desis: Not much else matters.

Haha. Word. Though I'm not a writer because I want to get laid or impress anyone with my rebellion. I'm just too lazy for anything that requires math, manual labor or graduate education.

Brilliant stuff -- I reckon Proust must have said something similar at some point in his life ;-)

I know this is a cliche, but I still find it extremely true. Desi girls like guys who are assholes. argue it as much as you want, defend it in your minds, but when it comes down to the practical, its true.

Maybe Desi girls don't realize it. Maybe they think its the "edge" or the "confidence" that attracts them. I don't know. What i do know, is that the for the few sincerely nice desi guys out there, the lack of the following is held against them by desi girls. - the game playing, the first impression chutzpa, the attitude, the ability to say mundane things in highly academic lingo.

And even more progressive ABCD girls, who are amazing in their own right, don't give nice guys a fair shake. its something about being sincere, nice, and straightforward that girls tend to find boring. So boring, that its not worth their time to figure out what beyond the surface.

Red Snapper-

I think he did in Swann's Way. BTW, Proust is actually my favorite author. I'm just working in advertising until I can save up enough for my own maidservant and cork-lined room, at which time I will enter complete isolation and dedicate myself to revamping the art of blogging.

A rule for talking to desi guys you meet over online matrimonials: If they're from the motherland, don't use slang, be sarcastic, or be sesquipedalian.

Chickpea:

I can understand how it feels when you're branded as "intimidating" or as having a "dominant" personality. I'm by no means an alpha female, but I guess it doesn't always come off like that.

The first guy my parents ever try to set me up with was some dude from India that my dad met when he was over there. Family from Amritsar, the guy was in Delhi studying to be a doctor. I originally had no desire to be set up with someone from the motherland, but I decided to be open-minded. Who knows, right? Right. His mom was a prof. of Punjabi literature so I was sweating his mom more than him. We chatted online for a month. I wasn't up for marriage for a variety of reasons: I was 21 at the time, I was still getting over a bad break-up (of which my parents weren't aware), and something just didn't sit right with me about this guy. But I continued to give it a chance and kept getting to know him. He was an impressive guy: a self-proclaimed feminist, really funny, and it seemed that he was pretty charismatic. He expressed some pretty liberal opinions that I agreed with. My opinions were met with his agreement as well. We could have become really good friends. But like I said, I was still 21, didn't want to be married at all, and something just didn't feel right about the situation. My parents pressured me for a yes or no - so I said no. Apparently, no one ever told this guy. So when I heard from him after a couple of weeks, he was "breaking up" with *me*, on the record. His reasoning? "I really wanted to come to the US before getting married. But more importantly, you have a dominant personality, and I have a dominant personality, and when two dominant personalities get together, there can only be fireworks."

I was cracking up most of the time because this fool didn't know I'd already told my parents I wasn't interested. What did bother me was that we had never argued, we seemed to agree on most things, had a similar sense of humor, but he still characterized me as having a "dominant" personality. Sidenote - I found out that three days later, he was engaged. *vomit*

But yeah, I've been told most of my life that I come off a bit aggressive, but last fall/winter, there was a period of about two months where at least 5 people (men and women) told me that I "intimidate men", that I don't act submissive enough, and that if I want to hook a Punjabi guy, what I'm supposed to do is act shy and submissive, and then slowly bring out my actual personality. Then by the time he's hooked, it's too late, and I can then be my "crazy self" (their words, not mine). It put me off a bit, but then I realized, those people haven't dated me, and don't know how I am in a bf/gf context. So whatevZ. Innit.

I know this is a cliche, but I still find it extremely true. Desi girls like guys who are assholes. argue it as much as you want, defend it in your minds, but when it comes down to the practical, its true.

A lot of Desi girls do. But, on the other end, a lot of Desi guys want a Desi girl who makes them chase her, or causes drama. They might say they want a nice girl, but they want a girl who makes them work for it.

I'm sure there aren't many of these typical guys/girls on SM though ::: battering eyelashes ::: We appreciate intelligence and kindness, don't we? :)

I'm just working in advertising until I can save up enough for my own maidservant and cork-lined room,

Ah yes, what the world needs is an À la recherche du temps perdu set amongst the medical middle classes of Indo-American society --- what you have to ask yourself though, BidiSmoker, is which one of your uncles is the Baron de Charlus character, sado-masochistic homosexual panderer, pimp and boy lover and all? ;-)

I'm sure there aren't many of these typical guys/girls on SM though ::: battering eyelashes ::: We appreciate intelligence and kindness, don't we? :)

That and callypgian kundis.

It seems like there's quite a wide range of ages in the commenters. Would people mind putting down their age in from of their comments so others can properly put these comments in context? Might be helpful. Btw, I'm a 25 year old SBM.

Anyway, I have met so many diferent types of desi girls that I feel its almost impossible to come to any kind of general conclusion about DWD. I've had first dates get *extremely steamy*, but also third or fourth dates where the most exciting thing going on was the mango chutney. There are plenty of traditional girls, but also lots of more "free-spirited" ones. The one thing I have noticed is that the majority of desi girls are extremely social-minded. Like how many desi girls do i know who are on friendster/facebook? Like 1000. How many of ya'll are on that??

Oh DAMN. And today is the day I'm stuck in lab and can't play on the Internet all day.

I love desi guys, but the desi guys DO NOT love me back. Seriously...speed-dating and blind-date misadventures aside, I've been asked out by a grand total of ONE desi guy(s). And I live in Chicago, IL. And I get plenty of attention from guys in general, so I know I'm not just some socially inadept ugly loser :) Indian guys are just not interested in me. And honestly, I hate to say this, but I think it has to do with my extracurricular activities -- I was the girl in med school who produced The Vagina Monologues, organized Take Back the Night, was the leader of the pro-choice group, and president of the ob/gyn society. God forbid you be a woman with an opinion or care about gender issues because then you're a feminist. (How shameful!) This falls more into what our own garbanzobean has been talking about (and my own brothers agree with me): desi guys are intimidated by a woman who's successful in her career and has a strong opinion (GOD FORBID). (Prove me wrong guys! PROVE ME WRONG! And not in a gold-digging way because that's gross.) I date plenty of ambitious hard-working guys I share alot in common with, and we happily support each other's careers. That's what normal people do. Why can't the ambitious hard-working desi guys do this?

I don't really care too much about it right now because I'm not interested in settling down for a long time but I totally see this being a problem in about 10 years when I want to get married (and I do want to marry an Indian).

Right now I'm dating a white guy in med school who's hippie parents converted to Hinduism and sent him to boarding school in India for 14 years. It's fun because...this is kind of like what dating a desi guy would be like! (I wouldn't know.) We make inside jokes in Hindi (his is better than mine) and about Bollywood, but we totally didn't have to play any stupid games. [Ooh..that's another thing...if you talk to a desi guy in a social setting, you're too forward and want to get married. There's immediately this long-term potential there that scares him off. And her too, probably.]

A lot of Desi girls do. But, on the other end, a lot of Desi guys want a Desi girl who makes them chase her, or causes drama. They might say they want a nice girl, but they want a girl who makes them work for it.

This is a load of bunk. I have yet to meet a guy that says "Man she sure won my heart by ignoring me for 3 months while I was chasing her down" Any female attempt to logically describe "what they want" makes about as much sense as watching Anna Kournakova for her tennis skill.

Being nice and kindhearted goes directly out the window. What really matters is social proof, and your ability for non-verbal, subtextual communication. Master these, and the female brain is transformed into mush. And women are more suscpetible to the halo effect, I'd imagine.

Ah yes, what the world needs is an À la recherche du temps perdu set amongst the medical middle classes of Indo-American society --- what you have to ask yourself though, BidiSmoker, is which one of your uncles is the Baron de Charlus character, sado-masochistic homosexual panderer, pimp and boy lover and all? ;-)

I can think of at least three uncles that fit the bill. You know, the ones that always spend a little too much time in the basement with the kids at family functions...

Another excellent quote "The medical middle class of Indo-American society". Thankfully I myself have spent minimal time in this group since I was old enought to drive. I guess I sort of understand the stigma against doctors on here, since I wouldn't classify the SM readership as typical mainstream ABCDs or FOBs (I hate those words). Personally, growing up in the "medical middle classes" I yearned for something a little more exciting. But that is professionally, personally I find that most of the ABDs I respect do end up being doctors - it's a pretty noble thing to do actually.

The comment about money was a joke. Obviously I wouldn't put financial status anywhere on the top 100 reasons to be involved with someone. But again, not everyone's priorities are the same.

I'm the last person to have a clue but,

Why do Desi women want to be with Desi men? I think this one needs to be explained to us Desis men. The whole, we share a culture thing? What else?

Isn't it true that if you like someone you will find a way to make it easy, unless there is a reason to make it hard, like distance, family drama, work, ect? So, if it really is hard to date desi, what does that mean? Maybe it means sometimes a person is ambivalent about the whole, must meet a Desi thing.

So I want to turn it back on Desi women, in that its a complete fallacy to think that most Desi women are constrained to just dating Desi men, as most Desi women do have valid options to date whoever they get along with. I don't even need an answer, but I'd like to ask the question. How much is it something you believe to be true, that finding a Desi guy is really all that important in the grand scheme of things?

Personally I'd never want to give away the hope of being with a Desi woman, but I know that it causes awkwardness, as in some ways its not realistic to who I am to be able to relate solely to a Desi woman.

Yay, another 400-comment post!!!!!!!!

Taz, you write this

# Make sure to make the guy chase you a little bit and space things out accordingly. # Go to the bases three times slower with a desi guy than you would with a non-desi.

and then ask this???

Is it really harder to date us desi girls?

Haven't you pretty much answered your own question earlier????

I think there's a vicious cycle going on -- this mutual suspicion between desi guys and gals which are just perpetuated by these "rules". Throw these rules out of the window for once and see what happens!!!

I've actually been on the receving end of the famous 'desi-girl attitude' towards desi guys. I was told by a desi girl once --- 'I'm Indian, not blonde', when I tried to make a (very innocous) move. Somehow many desi girls seem to think themselves as being superior because they keep the (desi) guys hanging around, and treat all goris as sl*ts. I just think of that attitude as cultural baggage.

As a FOB and being a bit out of the mould in my tastes, I agree with a previous comment -- I see myself ending up with a very liberal FOB gal (hard to find one in the states) or a gori.

I don't want this to be construed as being hateful towards 2-gen gals, I see a lot of fabulous ones, unfortunately, they seem to be their fab selves only towards goras, and follow the 'rules' too faithfully towards us desi boys.

As an introspective thought, I might be doing that too...

To add to my comments above (#52), has there been a discussion yet about the desi obsession with Friendster/Facebook? NOTE TO THE BLOGGERS.

Does any other ethnic group engage in as much navel gazing about dating/love as desis?

I'm one of Rupadupe's biggest fans, but I have to say her post is bullshit. I think most Indian guys expressly prefer girls that are educated and have their own opinions. I know a lot of Indian people in America in our social circle, and there's a grand total of 3 women that do not work. A lot are the dominant voice in their families. Isn't one of the most common stereotypes about Indian women that of the overbearing mother/aunty? I think it's a myth that Indian women in America are all shy and demure and oppressed by their husbands. I haven't seen it myself. I, like many of my brown brothers, would prefer a girl that can tell me when I'm being an ass. (As I say this, I realize I am inviting many of sisters on here to call me an ass.)

Rupa,

I think the problem, more so than not wanting to date someone ambitious, is, there is not a realistic way for an Indian guy to meet you. You for example, have a boyfriend. But you eventually want to marry someone Indian. So the key interval of time for that to happen is for you not to have a boyfriend. If you are a go-getter type of person, maybe a lot of men generally would be intimidated. Your current BF, he speaks a foreign language and he lived in another country for 14 years, and he's a med student. He does not sound like your average run of the mill guy either. Honestly, if you saw an Indian guy now, you would be comparing him to someone you already probably have solid feelings for. He's not going to come off looking good. At best, he'd be interesting, at worst, he'd be scuzzy for talking to you while knowing you had a boyfriend.

If you want to date an Indian guy there has to be some realistic way for that to happen, and its not very possible if a person already has, what appears to be a pretty good relationship already. Any guy with half a brain is going to understand that he has no realistic chance of breaking up a relationship of a woman who is solid and with-it. Nor should he want to.

(As I say this, I realize I am inviting many of sisters on here to call me an ass.)

I'll be the first - you're an ass!

=)

Physicians, get thyselves onto Friendster and Shaadi.com. Seriously. You'll meet like minded people and even have some illicit fun as you search for that soulmate who knows how to chill with your family whilst at the same time eating tofu/red meat in line with your own enviromentalist-feminist/football loving dispositions. In other words, its a good way to get laid as well as find a wife or husband.

Point taken Sahej. However I was single for 2 years prior and didn't hear a peep from the desi guys :). TWO YEARS. In Chicago. And I go out plenty.

I think most Indian guys expressly prefer girls that are educated and have their own opinions.

Yes, many want a girl who is successful academically and professionally, but he still needs to be the one who clearly wears the proverbial pants. Again, not all Injun guys are like this - I'm addressing more of the stereotype that a lot of commenters are putting forward. She has to be good, but he has to be better.

Yes, many want a girl who is successful academically and professionally, but he still needs to be the one who clearly wears the proverbial pants.

Sigh, you just can't win if you are a desi guy, can you? There are just so many ways to hate on us...

Rupa, how the heck do you only get asked out ONCE in two years by desi guys in Chicago? I live here too, and its like 50% desi. Hahaha. Ok maybe not fifty but it seems like that sometimes.

desi guys are intimidated by a woman who's successful in her career and has a strong opinion (GOD FORBID). (Prove me wrong guys! PROVE ME WRONG! And not in a gold-digging way because that's gross.)

Bidi, I second you, this line of reasoning is a rationalization against the fact that Indian women are not approached enough by Indian men. It serves their egos best to conclude that men are intimidated by "strong personalities" The term itself is ridiculous. What does that mean, "strong" or "dominant" personality? To voice your opinion? To have your own interests? By definition a romantic relationship requires certain concessions to be made in favor of the partner - on both ends.

The real reason, IMO, for desi guys not approaching desi women (or women in general for that matter) is a lack of foundation in the "dating" methodology. Social dynamics in the US are something 1st gen immigrants have no clue about, and subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) dismiss as deviant. So 2nd gen people are left to "learn on the job" so to speak.

Since the onus of initiation falls onto the male, we have an exponentially more difficult time. If the woman's role is simply to sit back and field requests, certainly it's easier to do that rather than initiate, when you know your parents never did it, their parents never did it, their parents parents never did it, etc...

You know, I am tired of hearing that Desi women only run after rich desi doctors/lawyers/engineers. I am sure this was probably the norm back in the day, thus it is taken as the stereotype, but there is a whole new generation of desi women out there, I don’t know if it happens in the US as yet, but my gal pals in South Africa, who are educated, and earn very well have decided to strictly date 'artistic men'. They believe they make more than enough money, so they date men that 'fulfill other needs', and there are plenty of poets, artist, literature professors (person favorite), actors and not forgetting the UN and Peace Corp sweeties to go after.... Follow your heart and take care of your own pocket!

Chick Pea, somewhere out there is a rockstar waiting for you. I think you may need a new guitar…

i had other things to say but this is by far the funniest thing i've read in a long long time:

Any female attempt to logically describe "what they want" makes about as much sense as watching Anna Kournakova for her tennis skill.

There are just so many ways to hate on us...

Aww I didn't mean to come off hating - trust me, we get it, too.

Rupa,

Maybe part of it was intimidation, in that a lot of guys, more so then being threatened, probably feel they don't measure up. Guys tend to think that women like men who have something going for them. If they're in their 20's, they might not have much going for them other than an apartment bought by their parents and the ability to study really hard. Thats not going to make a dude confident about being with someone who is really awesome themselves.

The desi part of it, more than a special proclivity for desi men to be intimidated is, there is always the long-term in the back of the mind. When you're younger and don't know what you want, you tend to shy away from starting a relationship that you think has the odor of long-term. I honestly do not think it has much to do with desi men being especially intimidated by successful women.

This thread is brilliant - I love everyone coming up with a contention and statement, loading it with caveats, then another person disagreeing with them, citing their experience and successes/failures in the deadly mating dance of desi man and woman, hilarious.

400 post thread for sure I reckon just as someone already said.

You know, I am tired of hearing that Desi women only run after rich desi doctors/lawyers/engineers.

You are right-Desi women only run after rich WHITE VCs/lawyers/investment bankers. I went to a NETIP event in San Francisco 4 years ago and it was all about "empowered" desi women and their white trophy husbands/boyfriends.

Stand back! DesiDawg just dropped a bomb in # 74!

DesiDawg, I dont know about other Desi girls, but I like my chocolate brown/caramel. I like desi guys, they have already been trained by their mum! It's true, they already had to deal with a strong woman so another one just keeps his world balanced and those who try to fight it, learn the hard way.....
:)

TO #74: Hahahahhahahhahahhaha

It's true, they already had to deal with a strong woman so another one just keeps his world balanced and those who try to fight it, learn the hard way.....

That's pretty hot.

BTW, any man who whines about white dudes taking our women; you've already lost the game before the opening buzzer sounds. I've been there myself.

Man some of you seem to be nursing some deep wounds.

BTW, any man who whines about white dudes taking our women; you've already lost the game before the opening buzzer sounds. I've been there myself.

Sahej, the question is not about white dudes taking "our women" it's about "our women" prefering white dudes with a lot of $$$.

Desidawg,

What are you going to do, inject melanin into every white dude while they sleep? Or maybe rob all white men and give their money to the people of Fiji

Wow I can't believe I slept in today and a topic I claim to have serious authority over would be so far along :-)

Dating while brown has it's own complexities. I've learnt a lot in my prolific dating life and written and gotten beaten up over it as well. One thing is for certain, it's far less complicated to date non brown than a brown man. Dating a brown man brings in your own baggage and his baggage that you have to balance and deal with.

I love desi men, I admit it, I feel a certain "additional" connection to them I don't with non desis but dating a brown man also comes with a lot of additional "measuring up" that doesn't exist with a non brown. It's life and instead of fighting it I just deal with it. I test drove 8 cars before I bought one, I looked at 25 properties before I bought one, I research simple things like where to go eat on Saturday night, why the heck would I not want to measure up a man I'd be intimate with? Doh.

Why are people offended when they are measured up? I don't. I have standards I expect a man to have standards as well and if I don't measure up to his well then I don't for that man. It doesnt mean I don't for another. The problem I have isn't with the "measuring" the problem is the 'playa' potential so many upwardly mobile desi boys in NYC seem to have. That's a deal breaker. And when you've been a playa it's easy to spot one. I don't play that game anymore. Too old for it. I see bullshit I call it and move on.

DesiDawg-

You didn't know that all "empowered" desi women marry white dudes? You obviously haven't been reading enough comments by people like DQ, Pardesi Gori, etc. or watching any Gurinder Chadha movies. Everyone knows that desi men can't handle women with opinions. We like our women barefoot, in the kitchen and able to make perfectly round rotis. They should have engineering and medical degrees, but without any distinction.

On the other hand, our white friends are incapable of being threatened by a desi woman's success. They are already so superior by virture of their lack of pigmentation, that there is no chance that a woman's occupation or opinions would bother them. Notice the wonderful job they have done in this country promoting feminism, equal rights and racial and religious tolerance. Thank god our brown sisters have rich white men to uplift them.

why the heck would I not want to measure up a man I'd be intimate with?

Why indeed. Insert ribald double entendre here: [ ]

JOAT,

If a man doesn't measure up, why should he reveal his measurements just for the sake of being laughed at? Its not to do with intimidation, its moreso self preservation. I also agree with you on the Desi male mirage that we are players. Here's where it comes from to me. We're giving the illusion that because we are Indian, and a lot of our friends tell us we are so lucky to be indian because indian women are so hot and all, we think, "we have it made." When in reality, its not actually true. So we run around thinking we have all the options in the world, until the realization hits that, its not really going to work out that way. And thus ends the Desi man's mirage. And then, you do have some men who are Desi and players, but players come in all colors, and they are their own thing.

And to support Rupa...from another Rupa...the intimidation factor is real, it's substantial and one just has to navigate it. I leant it a long time ago and have made peace with it. I don't see it going away.

I think it all boils down (for me at least) to men wanting a woman who "needs and wants them" pure and simple. If I come across as a self sufficent, don't need a man for anything type I'm bound to bring out questions in the man I'm dating. He is bound to wonder "well if she doesn't need me why am I sticking around, looks like she's doing fine by herself". Men inherently love to "rescue" a woman even if it's from something completely mundane and silly because it makes them feel desired and wanted. It gives them a place to belong in a woman's life.

So you get the "he is intimidated" vibe when in reality all he wants is for you to want him and have room for him in your 'feminista, self sufficient, fearless female" life!

Bidismoker,
Awesome post. Certain desi women date rich white men. That's their personal choice and none of my business-it's the BS that they peddle to justify their dating preferences that ticks me off. Mama's boys, not liberal, cannot stand independent women blah blah blah. Get a life!

India had a women PM what like 30 years ago? Any chance the USA will ever have one?

I think it all boils down (for me at least) to men wanting a woman who "needs and wants them" pure and simple. If I come across as a self sufficent, don't need a man for anything type I'm bound to bring out questions in the man I'm dating. He is bound to wonder "well if she doesn't need me why am I sticking around, looks like she's doing fine by herself". Men inherently love to "rescue" a woman even if it's from something completely mundane and silly because it makes them feel desired and wanted. It gives them a place to belong in a woman's life.

That is not intimidation, thats wanting to be needed in a relationship. And none of that has anything to do with being Desi. All men feel that way.

If a man doesn't measure up, why should he reveal his measurements just for the sake of being laughed at?

But see you are assuming that the measurment is going to make a woman laugh. That is where insecurities come into play. Trust me I have them too but my insecurities get better with age. Things that bothered me before don't anymore because I've learnt to separate the sincere from the bullshit. I've also learnt that men are willing and open to improve themselves and change themselves for the right kind of woman. Being a brown woman comes with its own baggage but also amazing abilities IMO. I've empowered men to give up smoking, cut down on drinking and improve their food habits. Some might call it manipulating but these men did it willingly because it came with brown love. The same men would have told a non brown chick to piss off if she had tried to "change" them.

The playa thing what can I tell you. There are so many. And I'm a big believer in "league". I hate to say it but it exists more visibly in the diaspora. Especially in NYC where desiness is abundunt, hot and rich. I won't go above and beyond my league simply because I don't think I would measure up and won't be able to play in it. I once dated a Managing Director at Neuberger Berman and this man had a $8 million penthouse on the upper east side. Trust me it came with so much additional requirements and baggage I knew after the first date I didnt measure up. He was a really nice guy but I was way below his league and by league I don't mean rich or hot, it's just the place and point in life.

I see nice average guys go to parties stand around and try to get the attention of and chase after the hottest chick in the room that won't even spit their way when there are tons of other nice girls standing around. They leave with no hot chick and no phone number and think women have a problem with them when all they've done is failed to recognize all the ones that don't have a problem with them. It's a vicious cycle. It's a two way street. Seen it happen the other way around too.

Chick Pea, somewhere out there is a rockstar waiting for you. I think you may need a new guitar…

awww miss CR i have missed you terribly..
new guitar ;)... awww the guitar hero one doesn't work?
:)

i'm so ticked that this topic had to come up TODAY...for me is a horrible/busy clinic day on this end.. i will respond later on to the other comments...

cheers,
the intimidator ;)

it's the BS that they peddle to justify their dating preferences that ticks me off. Mama's boys...

This is a land mine and I'm going to stand on it. It's real. I love a man who's close to his mama because I would expect him to understand my closeness to mine but desi boys (NOT ALL - before everyone jumps down my throat) are mama's boys and that's that. It's something ALL desi women know and it's something we can't do anything about. So one has to just navigate around it. And my definition of mama's boy may be different from yours so I'll tell you my criteria. Two things.

1. Mom seriously influences all major decisions of his life so it would without a doubt influence his choice in a woman and his relationship with her.
2. Mom is #1, never wrong, so she will always take priority over the other woman and this quality will unfortunately get visible about 900% after one gets married

To me mama's boys does not mean he likes his mother, cares and respects her and does things for her and gives her time and attention. Its a fine line.

And yes non brown men generally don't come attached with umbilicial cords.

I had to post late night so I had 90 comments to read in the morning.... great.

But see you are assuming that the measurment is going to make a woman laugh. That is where insecurities come into play. Trust me I have them too but my insecurities get better with age.

Initially I was talking about a different time period, in early 20's. And that point life has not beaten you down and you think that if you play the game right you can avoid the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. After awhile you just find out, you're going to get it no matter what.

I tend to agree with you to an extent about the "league" idea. I look at it more as is this person open to what I bring and am I open to what they bring? If not, we both need to move on. You can be a chamilionarre and be looking for a solid guy who makes 40K, or you can be a person making 40K and need a dude with XYZ characteristic. Its more so about what a person wants and needs in their life than who they are, because by a certain age you're a bit done with the social striving often times and you know what you want. And at the point, no one is going to be able to negotiate you out of it.

But all of this is generalizable to men and women, and not just Desi men and women

Fuerza Dulce:
Of course you have an intimidating personality.
Just your eyelashes alone are enough to batter a guy !
;-)

Bidi,

Don't call BS on Rupa, she's so right! I think there's an age thing here- you just graduated out of college, no? Your dating world is like a bakery of goodies- The rules apply in particular to the "elder" desi gals in the 25+ age range. Sure there are the gold digging desi gals with LV purses that only date the doctors- by the time you reach 25+ they are the ones that are usually on their first marriage to said doctors. It's the remainders gals that I'm referring to - the strong minded, don't take BS, independent women. You'll see- give yourself 5 years.

Men inherently love to "rescue" a woman even if it's from something completely mundane and silly because it makes them feel desired and wanted. It gives them a place to belong in a woman's life.

I see the same old hackneyed clichés have already gotten a hold on the minds of the SM "intelligentsia"...

Its more so about what a person wants and needs in their life than who they are, because by a certain age you're a bit done with the social striving often times and you know what you want. And at the point, no one is going to be able to negotiate you out of it

Yup right on. Reality needs to kick in at some point. We all realize what we are worth and what is worth our while.

Don't call BS on Rupa, she's so right!

She is so not right. Where is this coming from that Desi men have the intimadation gene?

I'm perplexed

The problem I have isn't with the "measuring" the problem is the 'playa' potential so many upwardly mobile desi boys in NYC seem to have.

I can see that happening, JOAT...I want to go to NYC after I graduate (in a year, I hope), and this is precisely one of the reasons. I want to be an upwardly mobile desi playa. Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "playa", but I do want to date (and sleep with) and be in relationships with many different women in general for a while without worrying about committment issues.

What's really wrong with that? Just coz I'm desi, why am I expected to be all about marriage & Long-term and sh*t? I want to have exactly as much fun and pain as the next (white) dude. Why is it always ok for them to 'sow their wild oats' and not ok for us?

BTW, in order to encourage more information sharing - I am 27, male, single and straight, and a 1-gen been in the US for 6 years in Houston, TX.

Yup right on. Reality needs to kick in at some point. We all realize what we are worth and what is worth our while.

Word. We are worth, its all about someone else not being a butthead and realizing it.

It's important to understand WHY you want to date a desi girl/guy. Let's say you want someone who respects your parents, wants your children to learn Hindi/Gujarati/whatever, doesn't run away from Indian food...I dated a 'brown' guy who didn't have any of the above 'desirables', and am now with a 'white' guy who does.

Sahej,

I know you are a desi male so you think you are not intimidated- But have you DATED a desi male? They are SOOOO intimidated!

Fuerza Dulce: Of course you have an intimidating personality. Just your eyelashes alone are enough to batter a guy ! ;-)

Why, PJ, I do declare...

but I do want to date (and sleep with) and be in relationships with many different women in general for a while without worrying about committment issues.

You will be right at home in NYC.

What's really wrong with that? Just coz I'm desi, why am I expected to be all about marriage & Long-term and sh*t? I want to have exactly as much fun and pain as the next (white) dude. Why is it always ok for them to 'sow their wild oats' and not ok for us?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. A playa isn't someone sleeping around and living life casually. A playa is someone who misleads women into think he is not and thinking he is sincere with every woman he meets and strings along.

Taz,

Intimidated by what? And moreso than any other man would be? I will agree with you in general a lot of men are put off by strongly opinionated women. Part of it is, most men do not have the verbal capacity to go toe to toe with women, nor the emotional reserve, particularly in their 20s.

Unless you have had some inside information only you're privy to, I don't see this as a Desi male problem specifically.

Ven's cynical rules of desi dating

a) Cute
b) Bright
c) Sweet

you can get 1. 2 if you're lucky. but all of the above is devilishly difficult.

The bright ones complain that men are intimidated by their brightness. That chip on the shoulder isn't very sweet. And, often, it's b/c the particular men they liked didn't find 'em very cute. But you can never admit that.

The cute ones - esp. if cute from an early age - don't take the time to work on their brains. And, if they've got men kowtowing to their every whim, often aren't sweet. For what it's worth, it seems that desi's (men and women) are like fine wines, the grapes need to be tortured a bit (e.g. go through awkward teen years ; grow in rocky soils) to become complex and interesting.

The sweet ones - oh... if only sweet were enough. The Tragedy.

And yes non brown men generally don't come attached with umbilicial cords.

This is exactly the BS I was talking about. Date/marry whoever you want to. I don't give a rats arse why do you always justify your decision with all this make-believe.

I will agree with you in general a lot of men are put off by strongly opinionated women.

Well isnt that intimidation? I have a simple requirement off the men I date. You better not wither in my presence and you better be able to keep up with the verbal repartee. And there are men that do meet those requirement but boy there are those that don't.

A woman who has opinions is assumed by many desi boys to be someone "difficult", "uncompromising", "a liability" and it boils down to "well I cant take her home to mama with that mouth". And if it smells like intimidation and looks like intimidation it must be.

The cute ones - esp. if cute f