November 07, 2006
A Complete Load of Pap(dits)TV
In non-election news, tipsters are blowing up our spot to tell us about The Papdits, a TV pilot being shown online at Innertube, CBS’s broadband outlet. The creator is someone called Ant Hines, who is credited as a co-writer on Da Ali G Show and Borat.
The Papdits are a fictional Indian family (Kashmiri, the website specifies, strangely) who go around the United States in an RV on a mission to purchase and operate quartz mines. (Bear with me here.) We see them in Arkansas interacting with local yokels who are unaware that this is a “reality/scripted hybrid” played by actors who want to make them look ridiculous. I got through the corny music and overdone accents and made it to the point where the daughter wants to “make toilet” in a lake off the side of a boat that the family is trying to rent. You can see it all here.
The show is coming out of what Variety calls “two years of development hell,” being first developed for — and rejected by — Fox, before landing with CBS:
When it came time to make a decision on a series greenlight, however, CBS decided the show was simply too out there for its relatively mainstream aud.
Out there??? Try idiotic, borderline racist, a complete dog!
But [CBS exec] Tellem said Eye execs were hard-pressed to simply dismiss the show, which prompted serious laughter in the net’s screening rooms last May. …
Execs quickly decided it made sense to put the Sony/CBS Par show on the net’s Innertube broadband service. Rather than just throw it on immediately, however, net opted to wait a few months in order to piggyback the online premiere of “The Papdits” with the release of another, similarly themed project: “Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan.”
Yeah, just like Borat, right? No, for at least one salient reason: while Sacha Baron Cohen is not, in fact, Kazakh, Ant Hines found himself some real-life desis to play the Papdit family. The mother, father and son are played by Priya Ayyar, Nitin Ganatra, and Kunal Sharma. One trusts this will not be the culminating achievement of their careers. CBS, meanwhile, thinks it’s onto something, and Hines ends up a winner either way:
While it’s highly unlikely the Innertube exposure will lead to a CBS berth for “The Papdits,” Tellem doesn’t hesitate when asked whether more episodes of the project could end up on Innertube.
“Absolutely,” she said.
In the meantime, CBS has given Hines a vote of confidence, inking a deal with the scribe to develop a new project for next season.
UPDATE: I think The Papdits is awful, but Priya at Nirali has a different view. What do y’all think?
siddhartha on November 7, 2006 02:04 PM in TV · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
i haven't watched this yet, but a couple of my (brown) friends told me about it and they found it hilarious. i guess i should watch it to see if i agree or disagree...
the widow-burning jokes got tiresome really quickly. ok, we get it, indian men are oafish and misogynistic. next.
I absolutely love this. I hope CBS puts it on real network TV. Yes, the Indian accents/attitudes are overdone. But, it is ridiculously funny.
Can it be considered insulting to Indians/FOBs? Yes, I'm sure those in the SM community with thin skin will take it that way. But, the target of their humor also come across as looking like idiots in many cases. (Just like Borat's victims.)
I *loved* it. The reactions are priceless. Thanks for the tip, CMF.
the girl on the left has a nice face...
I thought it was pretty funny but only if the show includes "asides" where it is clear what the actors are really thinking.
blech! no wonder the pilot failed the pap-test. what a steaming,dishonest, quarter assed pile of fad riding fudgepacked turds.
I thought it was Dumb. I think the jokes were not witty enough- like the kids at The Kumars who are ridic funny and witty. Shows like this really are dependent on a funny cast of characters- and um, I just didn't see that. Maybe in the father, if he weren't trying to play a stereotype so hard, and spent more time on being funny. RECAST. I want Russel Peters to play the dad, and Rasika Mathur as the mother. Ok, so it'll be a young traveling bunch. And RESCRIPT. How about instead of being a motorhome of quartz miners, how about i dunno, starting a hotel business. I would definately get the Badmash boys in the script writing process too...
Sorry. I can't. Desis in an RV? Forreal? This is kraptastic.
Why can't they just make 30-min sitcom episodes of Harold and Kumar? I might actually bring myself to come near a television for that.
priya ayyar is one sexy woman
damn
I was laughing so hard at the "I want to make toilet in the lake" scene that I made a little toilet in my pants. This is great stuff. I wish we could have more.
I saw a minute of it. It was okay but takes getting used to, like the UK's "Kumars at #42".
craptastic it is *yeckh*
I found it mildly funny, but I have a feeling that we will hate this show for the same reasons Kazaks hate Borat.
Just wasted 30 minutes of my life watching this.
What rubbish. Unfunny, unimaginative crap.
ridiculous. I wanted to stop watching at 2 minutes but convinced myself to suffer another 3 more, and not be hasty in judging the show.
To think that's 5 minutes I could have better spent watching Govinda dance... yechh.
Desidancer, I'm envious. Your life is officially 25 minutes more accomplished than mine. What was I thinking?
let me see if I get it
a stereotype of desis is that they are all the smartest people in the world
so the joke of this show is to show some Indians that are stupid...
oh wait...no ... i don't get it
Everyone in this show is made to look stupid, really really stupid
so if I didn't know better from watching this show I'd think that Indians all live in the jungle and have no clue about the world around them.
I'm with you! That was my first thought. Someone give Russell a show or somebody gonna getta hurt! People need funny chemistry with each other and when the accents are fake or the situation too contrived it stops being funny. It needs to just be all naturually funny especially if you are going to insult and piss people off like the fathers in Seinfeld and Everybody Loves Raymond.
the next show will be Bhaskar discovering the Internet. And thinking it has something to do with fishing nets.
don't want to put someone down for trying to make it in entertainment industry...
but come on
how do they sleep after acting in this show ?
from http://www.russellpeters.com/
NEW SITCOM?
This week Russell goes back into network meetings for a possible new sitcom project.
Keep checking back for updates on this exciting new development!
RUSSELLPETERS.COM | posted on October 28, 2006
Wow, this brings back memories (mostly bad)!
I was actually among the selected group of people who got to preview the show at the CBS studio in MGM in Las Vegas. My wife and I were then selected for a group discussion (got paid for it!!). About 80% of the people thought the pilot was stupid and made no sense whatsoever. Some people mentioned that they know Indian kids and they are in no way as stupid as portrayed on the show.
I don't know how anyone can find it funny. Stereotypes can be funny but this is definitely not. I love Russell Peters et al but this is nowhere close. One especially dumb comment comes to mind... the mother-in-law says something about dead bodies hanging on trees in Kashmir. WTF!? I am a Kashmiri, if she had said something about terrorists killing people or something I would have understood. But dead bodies hanging from trees!!!... Speechless...
I got to a little past 8 minutes and then had to shut off this useless, not to mention insufferably boring, show.
So I went back an watched more of the show (I only gave it a 3 minute look the first time). I got to agree that it doesn't go anywhere. The crytsal meth thing and the caddy clip was just kind of lame.
Grrr...30 minutes...bah!
ugh. i hate this. the kumars at no. 42...funny. This show...patronizing, obnoxious, and artless.
i agree. it sucks. way too many stereotypes applied to make it seem real, except maybe to people who've only ever heard about indians before.
although the line "she is ok" was good.
i think i'm just shocked that americans will actually put up with this much shit. if this happened in india...
Not a fan. I guess there is some potential there but I think it depends too much on stereotypes. I look at it this way...Apu for a couple minutes at a time is funny and can often be hilarious. A whole show of Apu? Not so much.
I did appreciate Nirali's shout out to the displaced 'Arrested Development' fans, however, I don't think this is the kind of show America (namely CBS) is ready to appreciate. Oh, to live in the UK and have the kind of humor that isn't tinged with over-sensitivity.
Taz:
That's an idea...but interestingly enough, I remember Russell Peters has very strong feelings about never playing a fake-accented south asian stereotype character for the benefit of American audiences. So this sort of show would probably make him a little sick. I remember in a CBC interview he said he's rejected a lot of very 2 dimensional roles of that sort and that he has a picture of Malcolm X (with a quote about never selling out) to remind him of that promise to himself. (did anyone else catch this?)
(no idea why I know this much about Russell Peters)
Lame. I couldn't force myself to sit through more than eight minutes. And is this really how we want to portray ourselves to the general American public? As overdone stereotypes who don't know the difference between a waterslide and a toilet? Please. CBS did us a huge favor by not picking this show up.
Yes, that's why Borat is #1 at the box-office. What?
No, though Americans are indeed over-sensitive, the main problem with the Papdits is unfunninesss. A crime of the first order in a comedy.
so the general consensus with borat is that the joke's not on the kazakhs, but on the americans, since he's exploiting their ignorance. perhaps that's a nice way to spin it, perhaps not. i'm not sure. i'm not a big fan of cohen, anyhow. couldn't sit through more than 5 mins of ali g.
also, if this show is going to air, i'd rather have indians playing these dudes than any other nationality.
couldn't sit through more than 5 mins of this either. agree with sriram (#30). besides, it's just not that funny. stereotypes or not.
Oh alright, I'll agree to that, but I still don't think Russell Peters is a comedic genius for accurately doing various accents and pointing out the difference between races.
Oy, Siddhartha, you don't need to express your hatred twice ;)
Doesn't even really seem like it's gonna be that funny, but I'm wondering what the major difference is between this and the Kumars at No. 42 and Goodness Gracious Me. Yes the latter two had intelligent humour as opposed to dumbass humour but they still made fun of every desi stereotype...
I think though for me it brought up a little bit of hypocrisy at how easily I can laugh at Borat without caring about how those previously Communist Kazakhs must be feeling, or laughed at William Hung the nerdy Chinese engineer from American Idol probably more easily than if he was an Indian engineer. I guess the Papdits are now the desi equivalent of that. Sigh, somewhere a pair of saffron balls are shrivelling up...
Great Ganesha, I'm about to tell you something that will make my friends think I'm uncool.
I think Borat is funny as all hell. I do. The joke is on the people who fall for his stunts. But here's my confession: the joke is also on Kazakhs. He depicts them as benighted, vulgar, stupid, callous. If he were playing an Indian, or a Korean or a Kenyan, there's no way in hell this shit would fly, pardon my French. I think it has to do with the coding: Kazakhstan is white. White and poor. Like poor white trash. Which is funny. It's no accident that many of his targets are Southerners with pronounced accents. White folks making fun of white folks.
Even the coding for Ali-G is very careful. He's a wigga, which is acceptable humor. If he were a nigga, that wouldn't wash.
But Borat just goes full bore and says, "Jagdemash, I'm from Kazakhstan!" Pretty appalling, if you think about it. But I guess the same is true of sausages, or the drinking water in most American cities.
But he's damn funny. And, somehow, this combined with the fact that poor whites aren't considered a species worth protecting, makes it all good. Funny wins.
If the Popzits were side-splittingly funny, I wouldn't give a damn who the actors were, or how allegedly "offensive" the material was. Like me a good blue streak. But they are not, so I do.
Aren't you part of the general American public too...
This really reminded me of when this terrible Eclipse chewing gum add came out with the hot boy off Monsoon Wedding and the accents were fully Indian and I just cringed in shame but my sister kept cracking up at it and loved it.
The reason she found it so funny? She felt she was part of the 'general public' and that the stereotype had nothing to do with her. I'm not saying that's a better view to have, but it's probably an easier view to have when faced with crap like the Paps.
Crap..and lame.
Some shows just have bad openings, but some of you sound like that guy, you know, the one who comes to every book club meeting, only reads the back cover, and makes sure to get a mouthful in while others who've actually read the book roll their eyes.
I respect those who've watched the clip in its entirety and don't like it. I even share their dislike for it, but dismissing the clip after 2, 3, or 8 minutes is intellectual laziness. Come on, don't be that guy.
The only thing this clip suggested about Indians is that they are damn good looking.
The joke is on America's version of 'cultural awareness.' The people the Papdits encounter truly believe that in daughters are dropped over bridges, husbands plot the death of their mother-in-law, wives carry permission slips. They're all shocked, but 'cultural sensitivity' prevents them from getting the joke.
Not too long ago, "culture" was a defense for heinous crimes. There are a bunch of cases where Hmong men were acquitted of rape because the defense convinced the jury that the culture made them do it and that's how Hmong marry. There's another case where a mother was acquitted of murdering her son born of wedlock because she couldn't take the shame. For a very long time, human rights groups stayed away from FGM because to avoid accusations of cultural imperialism.
America loves it's moral high horse. The Papdits turn that horse to a mechanical bull and it is damn funny to watch these good Christians flail. Comon -- that scene where the wife is selling tupperware "made from special glass, called plastic" and the judge stares in respectful astonishment thinking "I just gotta figure out a way to save this poor woman." HILARIOUS! She got bucked.
Espressa, I love your defense.
Don't buy it. But love it anyway.
A moral high horse turned into a mechanical bull? Gotsa get me one of those!
You go.
Waiting for Kobayashi to die. Or shut up.
Hmmm... I'm gonna disagree with Mr. K for once. I really don't think that Kazakhstan is clearly identified as "white". Certainly the Russians did not treat Central Asians as "whites" when they ravaged the area; indeed, I've learned that the word "nigger" was introduced to Central Asia as a slur used by Russians against native people (which is interesting and f*&!ed up for so many other reasons)!
Obviously I'm talking in terms of social constructions, not biology, which I think is not particularly relevant to this. But my sense is that Central Asians would not be considered "white" by any "true whites" that have encountered them, certainly not in the context of Soviet[Russian] colonization or in today's context either.
I feel like the coding is moreso that Kazakhs are considered irrelevant, voiceless, ambiguously Islamic, and generically "brown", or at least nonwhite. If Cohen was mocking, say, a Pole, or a [white] Israeli, I may or may not have different thoughts on the matter. Mockery and bullying are two different things.
I also think that Ali G is intentionally ambiguous. Please do correct me if this is incorrect, if Ali G's heritage is shown to be white, but I've often felt "Da Ali G Show" contained a subtext suggesting that Ali G was actually desi. Which does make a difference.
Also, please be warned that I have a long history of abusive remarks. I thought it's only fair to caution you, I or my avatar, Narasimha-esque, may actually jump out of the screen and cause you mental and physical disembowelment. Love, yeti.
Also, comparison to the Ali G and Borat characters is slightly misplaced.
SBC's characters aim to get people comfortable enough to say things that show Americans as stupid/racist/bigoted. The Papdits reveal the inherent discomfort a lot of Americans feel toward foreigners. I think its incredibly interesting. Borat does a little of this.
Also, Kazakhstan is a predominantly Muslim nation that loves its Jews -- no instances of anti-semitism have been reported in the last two years! -- so I wouldn't really agree that its white-on-white humor. (yes, i know islam isn't a color but that's how the culturally aware americans classfiy it)
I didn't like the Borat movie as much as I expected I would -- they sacrificed subtlty to the god of ticket sales. Dave Chappelle pulled out to avoid falling prey to the same. Russell Peters, Margaret Cho, Dat Phan, Carlos Mencia --- all hilarious. All risk causing more harm than laughter. All are aware that there is a fine line...somewhere.
Goodbye, "Blisterpack." It was nice knowing you.
preempted by a yeti!
That makes two of us, biyotch.
Yeti, the Irish were "black," doesn't mean they aren't white.
And yetis are...
(wait for it)
... brown!
In 42
should have read "The people the Papdits encounter truly believe that in :insert random foreign land: daughters are dropped over bridges, husbands plot the death of their mother-in-law, wives carry permission slips"
i dunno why that didn't show...
I have been wanting to write a screen play and or sitcom centering around the interaction betweent he immigrant parents and the first generation ABCD generation in a realistic and humorous fashion but without resorting to outlandish lampooning or cartoonish stereotytpes. Something along the lines of Mi Familia. I don't know if something like this could work, but I sense a definite need for something authentic out there. Maybe The Namesake will fill that void, but it's just something that's been on my mind.
If anyone is interested in something like this send me an e-mail. Most of the ideas are autobiographical, but I suck at writing. Needless to say I have the awkward meeting with the parents, the accidental discovery by mom of her daughter's white boyfriend "Eh Uma, some boy, some sleepy AMERICAN boy answered the phone...", the psychotic mother refusing to accept her son's wife, the kick ass wedding etc.
I guess I think of Kazakhs as white because...well, they are white...but, no, because of their proximity to Russia. I've got a good Kazakh Jewish friend...alabaster skin, etc...but she's from a priviledged background, I can't really say I know what the Kazakh on the street looks like.
Now if we were talking Turkmenistan...or, better still, Tajikistan, forget it, those brothers are practically Afghan, and these days no one thinks of them as white.
Maybe my point would be better made by saying this shit wouldn't fly with any nation expressly fighting a liberation struggle against white oppressors.
E.g. India.
wait... yetis aren't abominable snowmen? learn something new everyday...! Thankyou, SM.
Crap! They should have a way to Trash on internet!
... even though you hurt me so. The Irish were never precisely "black" - although quite clearly there was a historical moment in which the situations of the Irish and Afrikans were quite similar, and there was even a certain level of Black-Irish solidarity in such instances as Bacon's Rebellion which led to laws that assisted the Irish in embracing whiteness (as you know, I bet)... still, it's misleading to say they were "black", given that Blackness has always been an unquestionable bar to Whiteness in this country, and there was a clear understanding at some early point that the Irish, if not "white" yet, could be "whitened" relatively quickly.
The Irish are quite white now, of course. Are the Kazakhs and certain potentially white peoples on their way to whiteness? I don't think Central Asians are even in the ballpark; maybe the Turkish are trying their best, but I think there's a world of difference (sociopolitically, geographically, economically, culturally) between one Turk and another.
Mr. Kobayashi, I hope you're not saying that Kazakhs are white just because Cohen is white (jewish), and you're accepting his appearance as being that of typical Kazakhs; because Kazakhs are, to put it crudely and in an outdated (but clear) way, 'oriental' looking. They look like Mongols to an extent. Vaguely 'chinese' but not quite. See below for more (and pictures):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs
yeti: i think razib was referring to Macacaroach, who u were addressing and who also said this:
i think i recall macacaroach once was calling razib a white supremacist or something to that affect on another thread a long time ago. so i don't think he meant you. unless that was you.
Crap, you already commented again. And you're probably commenting as I speak. I feel as though Kazakhs are a bit too ambiguous and variable to be stamped "white" at this point.
I hate our little spats. Come here, you. You need some Yeti lovin'.
Yeti, I said the Irish were "black," I didn't say they were black. A difference, I'm sure, you see.
Thanks for talking Turkey, sister.
Hm, razib sure didn't make that clear to me. If so, my bad raz. If not, see above.
I have nothing to do with macacaroach; I will abuse him/her whenever and however I can.
Mr Kobayashi, Tajiks and Turkmens are not white, nor are they really Afghans in an ethnic sense (politically they obviously can be)...the true Afghans (historically-sepaking) are the Pashtuns. And many if not most Pashtuns could conceivably pass for white, although their features are not Anglo. There are ethnic, racial, phenotypic differences betweens Pashtuns on one hand and the Tajiks/Turkmens on the other.
Are you guys acting punchy because you're waiting for election results and too distracted to get anything else done? I know I am.
Great link Amitabh.
I was wrong, you (Yeti, Espressa) were right. Dem folks aint white.
I based my sense of Kazakh appearance on Natalya (my Jewish-Kazakh friend) and the people in the trailer for Borat.
Kobayashi's next speed eating event is humble pie!
Asha's Dad,
Come on dude. Why not write a story about who you are and how you feel about being in a desi-white marriaged? That I would be interesting in reading. You're not desi man, thats no knock on you. You're a man who is describes himself as white, who apparently married an indian woman, and now, apparently have kids. Thats a story in itself. But authentic sitcome about
I don't think you're all that well placed to do that, your wife, probably, could write a hilarious story about all the rigamarole you both went through.
One love man
Sometimes I dream of a Pardesi Gori-Macacaroach face-off. It never happened. Alas!
quartz crystal meth! really? no one else laughed?
Yeti,
I'm just throwing it out there, you are abusive but you limit your abusive comments to people you don't think matter. And those people you treat like crap. At least on this board.
For someone so concerned with one comment from someone in passing that described some of your comments as abusive, and then to turn around and blithely say you would "abuse" maccacaroach at all opporuntities (in some many words). That's some pretty clear "self-righteousness right there.
Had to be said.
but we don't know how she is getting out of sack...
I think that Mr Kobayashi's original point about white-on-white humor still stands, at least in regards to Borat. The images we see in the movie are not of actual Kazakhs, but of Borat, who looks white. Whether or not he is a good representation of Kazakh ethnicity, the people that he punks in the film and, I would guess, the majority of the viewing audience assume that he is.
I think Mr K can still make that argument (if he wants to).
Sahej,
Good points. Maybe sitcom is the wrong way to go. but humor tends to go over better than tug at the heart strings drama.
I only bring one point of view, but a story such as this would involve two different points of view. As bad as I am as a writer, my wife is even worse and probably has no interest in something like this (although I probably should ask her). I would not pretend to be so pompous as to think that I could write from a Desi perspective, Indian perspective, or an immigrant perspective. You cannot fake authenticity. That being said I was simply throwing the idea out there. I know that this is naive, but I don't want my daughter to grow up confused or feel insecure about her background, either among mainstream white America or within the desi community. The lion's share of this is our job as parents, but I can't help but imagine that there are a lot of couples out there in a similar situation and it always helps to know that one is not alone.
Take care.
Asha's Dad,
That sounds like a different and cool project. My respect level for you just went up by a million.
63: word, siddhartha. Stomach upset.
I never really watch TV except the daily show & colbert on the web and arrested development on dvd. 30 minutes is way too long for me to attach t a show that doesn't come with massive praise from trusted sources. sounds like this is just bad, and not particularly desi-oriented bad.
gosh, I loved it so much I can't stop defending it.
I don't think the Papdits were intended to be a stereotypical Indian family. Just a believable one. The critique is of the other end.
They seem like nice people, if foreign. The hospitable Ameircans welcome them warmly, willing to help them settle in and assimilate. Yeah, they're a little quirky, but hey, what'd you expect? they're foriegn!!
Now.. just how much "quirk" can the open-minded American rationalize away as "well they just do things differently" before it becomes obvious that many middle-Americans really do see foreigners, even those of us who speak english and make toilet in toilets, as something inferior, crude and barbaric?
For a seriously disturbing example in a serious discussion setting, see this transcript of a CIS panel discussion on immigration and terrorism.
There's so much in it to make one's blood boil, but please indulge me as I draw your attention to my favorite. Scroll down through the Q&A to:
MS. KEPHART: Sure, sure. What they do and the immigration agents do...
Did you see that??! She ANSWERED the question....without a HINT of outrage!
As much as we may try to ignore it, this attitude permeates a lot of America. So the Papdits get my respect for getting them to reveal what they really think.
since there's lots of mention of stereotypes, race and Borat...here's a rare clip of Sasha Baron Cohen talking about his charaters.
I guess the problem I have with Borat and this is that the humour is generated from the kindness and politeness of others. I can tolerate it if it's being aimed at the powerful (like on Stewart/Colbert and even sometimes on Ali G) but I'm uncomfortable when it's aimed at the powerless and defenceless or atleast people who are not hurting anybody else.
Yes there were some really painful bits that reinforce stereotypes of immigrants from third world countries. The bad accents (more accurately the strangely broken english) were horrible (especially from Mrs.P). But there were a few funny bits --- Mr.P's harebrained business-plans (I liked his quoting of Donald Trump's [?] "Art of the Deal" [?]), Mrs.P calling Mountain Dew the "Dew from the Mountain", and perhaps the quartz-crystal-meth bit.
Like many other things on SM, reactions to this will depend on how close it strikes to home probably.
Also I think "Kashmiri" (rather than Indian or Pakistani), like Kazhakstani, was chosen to be a non-specific foreign nationality that most viewers wouldn't know much about.
The Papdits don't have to make sense. Thats the point. Modern humor is often surreal, over the top.
A family of Indians (no, Kashmiris, to be specific) dumb as rocks living in an RV selling crystal meth. Of course, it doesn't make sense. They aren't supposed to be realistic. What's funny is that everybody who interacts with them thinks they are real, and not a parody of every ethnic/foreign stereotype combined. The victims don't see through the joke.
Someone above mentioned how the show reflects badly on Indians or the diaspora in general. This is no more the case than Flavor Flav reflecting badly on black people or Larry the Cable guy and the Blue Collar comedy tour reflecting badly on white Southerners.
I watched it last night through your "News" tab - a few things I thought were funny... the "widow" jokes, putting the women's painting club to work harvesting crystals, the "crystal meth" joke, the "100 orphans from India" were definitely in bad taste, and
a low blow to India and its citizens everywhere. The guy come across as a total RETARD!
And that's a shame, because MY Indian friends are anything but...
The pratfalls of the son on the golfcourse were cute, but otherwise, even this gora is offended...
Just saw some of the Papdits stuff...funny in parts...I did laugh...but is that MADHUR JAFFREY playing the grandmother? I can't believe SHE would sink to that level.
As for Borat, I'll probably eventually see the movie, but it is kind of sad that he dragged an obscure, unassuming nation into the whole thing...it's probably just a good thing that there are so few Kazakhs in the US/Europe to watch the movie and feel hurt about it.
Lastly:
I don't understand that sentiment...it's like baiting people to 'reveal their true feelings' or say/do offensive things...most of the people so baited are fairly nice, normal, mainstream types, minding their own business...it's like that Borat video clip of 'Throw the Jew Down the Well'...yes, he does get a crowd of redneck-types to enthusiastically sing an anti-semitic song with him. But if he hadn't done that, that crowd would have just been enjoying their usual music, without having anything anti-semitic (or pertaining to Jews at all) in their minds...so what do you really prove with these gimmicks?
Ashvin, I hadn't seen your comment when I posted, but I agree with you 100%, you expressed it far better than me.
these gimmicks reveal our dormant stereotypes. and once we become aware of them, we can dismantle them. lather, rinse, repeat. this is progress.
Basically, there's a difference between tolerance and understanding. And the former can prevent the latter. Everyone the Papdits encounter does thier best to tolerate them--by filing their peculiarities under foreigness, no one cares enough to try to understand. If they cared, they'd get the joke.
And yes, maybe it's disturbing still waters, but if there were a dangerous creature lurking beneath the surface of your swimming pool...wouldn't you want to tease it out and deflate it?
the author of this post sounds like the Khazak government critizising Borat. Suck it up and yenjoy.
... well, that's true enough. I can't really argue with that.
What can I say, I'm a loose cannon who plays by my own rules, a one-Yeti crusade against a collection of villains that only exist in my feverishly maddened mind. However, did you miss the tragic tale of why the Yeti is the way the Yeti is? Maybe a little more EM-pathy and a little less ME-pathy, mmm?
I do think the Kazakh government has gotten a pretty bad rep in this whole thing. What were they supposed to do? I'm sure Kazakhstan is pretty aware of its global status, or lack thereof, and doesn't want to be humiliated. Their choice was either remain silent and take what surely appeared offensive and humiliating, or make a statement in an attempt to at least maintain some dignity. Not a great position.
And Mr. Kobayashi... humility is the sign of true greatness. The yeti lacks it but one day hopes to be as such. *bows down to Mr. K*
I remember the Kazakh ambassador to UK made a statement to the effect: 'We survived Stalin. I think we can survive Borat'.
Youtube has a clip on that....it is funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je_1j2x6zxQ&mode=user&search=
Hmmm. I understand what you're saying, but that's a really high standard to hold them to. I think a gullible but non-racist person would behave very much like those Arkansans did. It's a close call.
Thanks for the kind words Amitabh.
Yeti,
Wouldn't "mepathy' be about how bad you have it? is it cos you're marathi? Come on man, you live in a multi-culutural world, don't limit yourself by one region in South asian. Marathis are great people aren't they? Although I thought you were Ethopian brah?
well.. I'm not faulting them for it. I'm just laughing at them.
I would love to see the outtakes. I bet there encountered a lot of people who got the joke and laughed their asses off.
But, Ashvin, you're right: We all hold little stereotypes. Life would be impossible without them.
Asha's Dad,
You could have a split-screen "Sliding Doors"-type technique. Imagine the contrasting "inner monologues" as the voiceovers by the various desi & non-desi characters.
Sounds like a great idea. Do it :)
This show is so Papa(dum)b.
Come on!! This shit sucks donkey-balls. There is absolutely no humor whatsoever. Stereotyping can work if its done with some taste like Russel Peters.
Totally *just* realized that the father was Mr. Kohli from Bride and Prejudice. I was thinking "I recognize that goofy accent...."
A relevant article on Borat's humor and bigotry from the Nation magazine via 3QD :
http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2006/11/borat_and_the_s.html
Umm to everyone who wants Russel Peters to be recasted in this as the father, quick reminder. HE's Southern and hes Malu, H'e not Kashmiri.
Right. Because THAT is how casting works and beyond that, the concept of ACTING, of transforming yourself in to your character matters not. I'm Southern AND Mallu AND I find this comment asinine...unless it was a joke. Please tell me it was a joke. Please.
I don't think Russell Peters is Malayalee. I believe he's of Anglo-Indian background. Which makes it a little ironic that he's found his niche in life doing desi comedy, since most Anglo-Indians kept a deliberate social distance from other desis, and were not well-versed in the cultural identities of the other Indians around them.
I've watched the whole Papdits thing now...it IS funny...but I'm so glad CBS didn't pick it up. For one thing, yes it tries to target gullible Americans as the butt of the joke, but Indians do also end up being the butt of the joke; and secondly, Indian kids in primary, middle, and high schools throughout this country would be made fun of relentlessly if this show was on network tv.
It breaks my heart that this is the closest network television has come to casting Indians in any major sitcom/drama roles (aside from Parminder Nagra's turn as a doctor on ER -- I think she's wasted there and deserves to be on a higher profile show.) Before this, we had Navi Rawat playing Ryan's ambiguously Hispanic girlfriend on The OC. Wait no, memory isn't serving me well; there have been two episodes of Nip/Tuck recently that featured Meera Simhan playing a doctor. In painfully limited roles.
My question is this: why can't the Indian thing simply be an afterthought to the character than the crux and point of _every_single_joke? I'm glad The Papdits didn't make it to series -- I think I saw not a name of a single Indian writer on the show -- or even someone who could be seen as South Asian; maybe I'm wrong, but if that is the case, then how can you lampoon a culture when none of your writing staff can write from experience?
This could've been worse. We could've had "All American Girl"-Margaret Cho style all over again. Thankfully someone had the foresight to shoot this mess in the foot before it got a chance to walk.
Amitabh,
Interesting that you mentioned that. The history of Anglo-Indians from the early Victorian age onwards is fairly traumatic in some ways, and there are quite a few eye-opening facts which aren't generally widely known. Coincidentally, I wrote an article on the British version of SM, Pickled Politics, earlier this week as a guest blogger which (amongst several other things) included a discussion on the background of Anglo-Indians, so please check it out here if you're interested.
Jai, great essay. And I do see your point, both about what Anglo-Indians went through, and about the parallels between what happened in India so long ago with what's going on in the UK today. BUT...I still got no love for Anglo-Indians (as a cultural identity). They looked down (and continue to look down) on our culture, and I have no tolerance for that...certainly not from the marginal remnants of a bygone colonial order. I wonder if Russel Peters would have ever embraced his Indian side if there was no money, fame, and (presumably) women in it.
i could only watch a mere 2 minutes at that before wanting to vomit..
remember the old 'say no to drugs' commercial...
frying pan: this is your brain
with frying egg: this is your brain on drugs.. (sizzling away)
i just feel like i wasted 2 minutes of my so called life...with some neurons undergoing apoptosis at that.
hell if fox rejected it (and they cancelled arrested development) how could CBS not?
Amitabh,
I don't know any Anglo-Indians personally and I don't know too much about their attitudes back in India either, but the community came up as a side-issue to the main subject of what I was discussing on that article.
There are of course some very well-known examples of Anglo-Indians in the public eye, such as Engelbert Humperdinck. Well-known in the sense of the person being famous -- I don't know if people are generally aware of him having desi ancestry.
Anyway, thank you very much for your response to my article. When you have some spare time I'd recommend you go through the comments too -- some of the other participants mentioned some more fascinating-but-unknown facts about the legacy of that era. And who knew that Britain has already had a Prime Minister with some Indian ancestry ? Even more intriguing is the number of present-day English people who may have desi blood too (there's actually a programme on British television next week where a DNA test was performed on a random white Brit who regarded himself as being "100% Anglo-Saxon", and genetically he turned out to be 20% South Asian !).
As for Russell Peters -- well, he looks pretty damn Indian to me in terms of his appearance. Not sure if he could "pass" as anything else, even if he wanted to ;)
Russel Peters when he is mimicking his dad's accent makes him sound like a Punjabi.
all you gujus and kashmiri and maloos and anglos with thin pointy noses - beware of strangers bearing samosa noses - once you yield to the charm the samosa takes over. we will leave our stamp on your progeny ..
is the samosa in you,... yet?
mooahahahahahaha.. moaaahahaha
Very familiar with Anglo Indians. Also went to Catholic schools growing up in India. Know the Bible as well as the Gita, and alas, neither one of them too well.
My question: how come we don't call the children of white and Indian marriages in this country Anglo Indians? I am going to call some of my "Anglo Indian" nieces and nephews this weekend and ask them what they call themselves, if anything.
I'm half white and half Indian, and I prefer to not use the term Anglo-Indian. My primary reason is that the term, in my mind, seems to be mostly associated with an Indian-British mix. My caucausian heritage is a mix of mostly Slovak and a little Hungarian (from my maternal grandfather) and on my maternal grandmother's side, the family lineage is traced back to the Mayflower (which is at it's root, British heritage, but many generations removed at this point). On my Dad's side, the family lineage is all Indian. I suppose I shy away from the term Anglo-Indian because it feels inaccurate because only a fraction of my heritage is "anglo-saxon" and to use the word "anglo" would mean ignoring my eastern european heritage. Moreover, the part of my mom's heritage that could be called "anglo-saxon" (the Mayflower connection) is far removed from the European continent and is also connected to something that many people would consider very American (the early European settlers on the continent).
I think that "white" heritage in the US is varied to the point that "anglo" does not describe most people. There are communties with ties to Russia, Poland, Croatia, Serbia, Estonia, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, the Czech Republic (and many more) in addition to the communities with ties to Ireland, Scotland, England, etc. I think that "anglo" is far too narrow to describe all of these varied groups. So it is too simple to describe Desi mixes as "Anglo-Indian"
When I think about it, I realize that it's kind of cool that there are so many cultural heritage groups mixing these days. Variety is the spice of life, right?
I have used a bunch of different terms over the years. I have used the lenghty "half-American-half-Indian-no-not-Native-American-Indian-as-in-"India", Indian American, half-Desi, Eurasian, mixed, Desipean, etc. I haven't settled on one yet. In general, questions about my ethnicity (because as most people tell me, I look like "something") produce a conversation about culture and identity that extends beyond what can be included in a short descriptor, which is just fine with me. ;)
I know the American whites cannot be correctly called Anglo, but I was merely wondering about why the Indians here, many of whom assume that Anglo simply means white, do not use the term to label the children of white-Indian marriages. Whatever the reasons, the less labeling the better.
I think it's obvious why we don't use the term 'anglo-indian' more widely...it refers to a specific, historically-defined community in India that came about though a certain process during the Raj, and has its own identity/culture/characteristics. It doesn't simply refer to anyone who is half-desi and half-white. Just as African-American refers to a specific community in the US, with a specific historical background and cultural/ethnic process behind it. If a couple from Nigeria move to America today, their 2nd gen US-born kids are not 'african-american' in the same way that people from the historically-defined african-american community are.
Maybe razib could tell us more, but there was a fascinating study about English genes...the common understanding is that Anglo-Saxons (germanic people) invaded Britain, pushed aside the local Celtic people, and populated most of England. However the genetic story is different...it seems to support the idea that a small number of Anglo-Saxons invaded (or migrated over), intermarried with local people, and spread their Anglo-Saxon culture and language much more so than their genes...the majority of the populace having predominantly celtic genes to this day...there are apparently very few regions in the UK where the average person has more than 50% germanic genes. Maybe this is analagous to the situation with the Aryan Invasion Theory of India?
'The Papdits' was really painful to watch.
Amitabh,
Razib is definitely the best person to answer this. He actually talked about this topic on my own thread over on Pickled Politics -- check out his posts #12, 39, 51 & 52. (Post #52 includes a link to Razib's own blog where he talks about the "blood of the British").
There's an article in the online version of The Times which discusses the British programme next week which I mentioned earlier, and includes the results of DNA testing on Carol Thatcher, daughter of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. You're not going to believe this -- she turned out to be 1/4 Middle-Eastern. Online article here.
Aaaah the good old days-when burra sahibs and mem-sahibs could roam the mall road unmolested by the filthy natives.
Alas liitle did mem-sahib know that burra sahib was the result of a horny encounter betwixt the elder burra sahib and the untouchable jamadarni who came to collect shit from the outdoor toilets.
Razib, you save your intellectual firepower for other blogs I see! Shame, we can use it here when not discussing South Asian versus Indian all the time. You've got a absolutely stunning intelligence my friend!
You guys all take yourselves way too seriously!! I love you Expressa & Mr. Kobayashu!! This show does not make fun of Indians it makes fun of Americans. If I was from AK I would be upset that I am being protrayed as an idiot! Who cares if a South Indian is protraying a North Indian! I am just happy that a TV show about Indian family was developed. I thought that the show was funny!! I laughed so hard that my cheeks hurt! I hope that we see more of the Papdits!!
i DEFINATELY do not want to threadjack, but what about the other indians in television? there are a few now. what about that dude on HEROES? [nbc] and anchal on america's next top model? Anchal's out now, but a few episodes ago she was rocking desi.
I know I'm late to the party, but I'm just watching this now. I hate to disagree with my girl Priya, but I have to admit I didn't find it funny, either. Arrested Development was genius; this was a poor imitation.
i liked it - thought it was great. laughed my ass off.
arrested dev got canceled, and yes it was genius.
family guy got canceled as well before getting picked back up after fox realised it was a hit - and that they (fox) were late to the party.
borat is a success because it feeds off this same notion that humour is changing in america, and that it's ok to laugh at people/cultures... perhaps a backlash to political correctness. best example of this is dave chapelle - who made fun of everyone - but mostly his own race. the jokes are even better when one actually knows more about the the cultures involved. the daily show is another prime example of lowbrow-highbrow humour. one has to know what they are making fun of in the first place. to be able to laugh on both levels, and hopefully in the process, yourself, is the point.
Just saw the Papdits. AWFUL. Not just awful, but offensive. Seems like the creator of both Borat and the Papdits has something against brown people.