this was utterly HORRIBLE...
if a man is tasered... he is not able to walk for at least a few mintues..
basic physiology..

wtf is going on?

W to the T to the F?
thank god they have it on video.

abhi, glad you brought this up. i saw this clip too and was shocked. while the guy should have had an ID on him, as the library requires that, but the use of tasers.....left us all UCLA wallas shocked.

oh my God .. that was horrid - I couldn't even make it through the whole video.

The latest nationally recognized incident of excessive use of force by the LAPD (the third this week) came Tuesday night right here on the UCLA campus’ main library

abhi, according to your post, this involves the UCLA police, not LAPD.

horrible

abhi, according to your post, this involves the UCLA police, not LAPD.

I've corrected at the top.

wow this is just crazy
what the ass....

This is fucking ridiculous.

I saw this on the news last night and I was absolutely appalled at the use of violent force against a non-threatening student. I think that this kind of behavior is inexcusable. My heart goes out to Mostafa.

I am certainly not going to argue that Tabatabainejad did not deserve to be arrested.

Actually some of the witnesses are saying he didn't refuse to leave the library, that he was actually on his way out on his own volition and that the cops tasered him anyway.

From the LAT:

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling "Get off me" several times.

Actually some of the witnesses are saying he didn't refuse to leave the library, that he was actually on his way out on his own volition and that the cops tasered him anyway.

Yep, I used that same quote above.

Very gut wrenching. I think the issue has more to do with power. People with power abuse it a lot. Even police officers in India get away with murder. It is sad.

Insane reverence for authority in some conservative quarters of the country has led to the police usurping way more powers than they should have in any advanced industrialized society. Ad Nauseum police worship, calling them ‘heroes’ ‘brave’ ‘honorable’ ‘the best’ and the beatification of them in the local media is so over the top that some cops actually believe that they are the judge, jury and the executioner.
If this is what they do in a freaking public place, imagine what they do when they are ‘arresting’ someone who has little means/influence and there is no public spotlight over them.
The police department should be hit with a civil lawsuit ASAP.

That's scary. There was absolutely no reason for the multiple use of the taser. But even if the officers receive some sort of "reprimand" I'm more interested in the specific protocol that would prevent an event like this from occurring again.

AMERICAblog is reporting there is a protest on campus tomorrow (Friday), but I can't seem to find any information to confirm/for details.

Stupid motherffers.
This is what happens when you allow f***in rednecks into the force. f*** trailer trash

|You will note in the video that the other students in the library are on the verge of rioting against the police.

I did not get this impression at all from the video. There was one dude (white t-shirt) who seemed to be arguing and some others asking for the badge initially, but the majority were just lamely following the show. That dude incidentally was promptly out of the pic once the officer threatened to taser him.

Maybe they should have sat on the road and blocked the police vehicle or something..

There was one dude (white t-shirt) who seemed to be arguing and some others asking for the badge initially, but the majority were just lamely following the show.

I agree. The fellow students really disappointing.

Chi_diva and AMFD - I think you both are right on the money regarding abuse of power and police/[and I'd say military] despotism/worship.

I meant the fellow students were *really disappointing.

Giving officers tasers was a very bad idea. The instruction they recieve with them makes it sound like a taser is the same as pepper spray. Thats just not true. a taser should be drawn with the same caution as a gun. Within a month of Cincinnati police being issued tasers they killed an unarmed black man with it...though they did that a lot anyways.

and I’m guessing that he probably has brown skin

Possibly of Persian descent.

I think you raise a very important and subtle point about how the true atrocity lies in the policy of tasering those that are merely passively resisting enforcement of laws, rather than violently protesting.

When it was introduced, the purpose of the TASER was to be able to incapacitate those acting violently without necessarily shooting at them. I find it remarkable that police forces across the country do not have a uniform policy on the use of the TASER. In this particular instance, I believe that the officer was extremely insensitive and lazy. I think to a large extent, the users of the TASER are desensitized by the pain that can come of it, and hence tend to use it as an easy short-cut deterrent rather than exert any physical effort. To them, the TASER has become the equivalent of a harmless magic-spell that simply incapacitates people with no apparent harm. That is the key problem here.

I hope he gets the officers fired, sues the school, and becomes a national spokeman for how NOT to use a Taser.

I am gonna be blasting NWA's Greatest Hits, including "Fcuk tha Police", on my way out of work today.

This is disgusting.

Side note regarding LAPD, all of the recruits get tasered in the academy. It's part of the training section on the use of tasers.

Famous lines from NWA:

Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?
A sucka in a uniform waitin to get shot,

This is what happens when you allow f***in rednecks into the force. f*** trailer trash

At least one of the officers' necks looked brown to me.

Insane reverence for authority in some conservative quarters of the country has led to the police usurping way more powers than they should have in any advanced industrialized society.

Quite plausable. But this incident was instigated by an individual who clearly did not have a respect for authority, and perhaps a disdain for a certain (working) class of people ("Pigs", "Trailer Trash"). The key is for police forces to recruit individuals with the temperence necessary to disregard such disrespect and snobbishness.

that was gut wrenching. I saw the whole video but I could barely stand it. It was terrible. They kept on tazing him instead of simply carrying him out. I'm disappointed with the students too, but who wants to be tazed. Holy cow that was like in some bad futuristic movie about state power and control.

This needs to become a national incident.

I thought that the officers did a good jod, considering the fact that if that happened in most places he would have been beat beyond recognition or even shot !!!!!!!!!! In fact, they may have been too patient. They should have grabbed him and dragged him out of the library. Why wait for him to walk out. He broke the law, place him under arrest and get him out. He was obviously causing a disturbance. So much so that all of the students had to walk into the hallway.

The key is for police forces to recruit individuals with the temperence necessary to disregard such disrespect and snobbishness.

Yes, but the people will not express that to the police so what will the training amount to?

I think your comment is the perfect example of the hero worship that goes in some parts of this country. Instead of being outraged by the police brutality you feel it incumbent upon yourself to attack the commenters who dared address the brutes in less glowing terms than 'heroes' and 'braves'.

I thought that the officers did a good jod, considering the fact that if that happened in most places he would have been beat beyond recognition or even shot !!!!!!!!!! In fact, they may have been too patient. They should have grabbed him and dragged him out of the library. Why wait for him to walk out. He broke the law, place him under arrest and get him out. He was obviously causing a disturbance. So much so that all of the students had to walk into the hallway.

As I always say, the right is its own best parody.

But this incident was instigated by an individual who clearly did not have a respect for authority, and perhaps a disdain for a certain (working) class of people ("Pigs", "Trailer Trash").

How do you know he had a disdain for the working class people?

Amfd,

Did something snap in your brain? Have you lost it? Do you need help?

Regards,

Almd,
I knew before reading Manju's first comment on this post what his opinion of the incident would be. He takes the reactionary position on almost every issue and needs to maintain his reputation. Trying to argue your point will be futile. Notice how he cleverly shifts the onus upon the victim. Here he inserts into this debate phraseology not used in the video:

But this incident was instigated by an individual who clearly did not have a respect for authority, and perhaps a disdain for a certain (working) class of people ("Pigs", "Trailer Trash").

Then without knowing anything about the individual he sides with power by saying the following:

The key is for police forces to recruit individuals with the temperence necessary to disregard such disrespect and snobbishness.

Yes, because civil disobedience must = snobbishness.

Anindo,
Is there a reason you think personal attacks are a good idea?

Was it personal? If so, I apologize.

I do have a reason to be uncomfortable when somebody posts something like this -

"Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?
A sucka in a uniform waitin to get shot,"

It might be the lyrics of a song written by somebody else but Amfd seems to be condoning them. A question about the state of mind is quite valid in this context.

Regards,
Aninda

I think your comment is the perfect example of the hero worship that goes in some parts of this country. Instead of being outraged by the police brutality you feel it incumbent upon yourself to attack the commenters who dared address the brutes in less glowing terms than 'heroes' and 'braves'.

Well, there is also a disdain for a certain type of people (rednecks, pigs, trailer trash) and authority that may have had a hand in this incident...a disdain i see on this thread and in some parts of the country (like San Fran) and from some liberal quarters...to reverse your argument.

How do you know he had a disdain for the working class people?

the same way you know conservatism lead to the police brutality. i don't know what motivated him to refuse to cooperate with the community service officers, perhaps it was disdain, it's plausible. perhaps the officers reacted like they did b/c he was brown, it's plausible.

Here he inserts into this debate phraseology not used in the video:

i provided links so you can see where i got the phraseology.

Then without knowing anything about the individual he sides with power by saying the following:

I was providing a possible motive for his refusel to show his ID, just as others were providing a possible motive for the police over-reaction.

Really disgusting!! I can't believe this happens in the US of A and that too in a university library before the midterms (correct me if I am wrong on that). Who would you believe the observations of witnesses or the statement from the police?

"Tabatabainejad encouraged library patrons to join his resistance," police said. "The officers deemed it necessary to use the Taser."

Been following this story on many blogs and news boards and whats more disgusting is the hatred from the posters for the student who got tased! He deserved it?! f**kin animals. All I can hope is that I have no such cowardly friends.

Well, there is also a disdain for a certain type of people (rednecks, pigs, trailer trash) and authority that may have had a hand in this incident...a disdain i see on this thread and in some parts of the country (like San Fran) and from some liberal quarters...to reverse your argument.

I was providing a possible motive for his refusel to show his ID, just as others were providing a possible motive for the police over-reaction.

Abhi, thanks for this post. I'm at work and can't watch the video, but this incident is disturbing nonetheless.

Tu Quoque Watch:

False sighting. AMFD and I were both speculating as to what lead to this incident.

Possible motive for the police? did you watch the video buddy?

Vinay, r u saying it's obvious from the video that the police were motivated by bigotry?

The most appalling thing to me is the shoddy camera work. Failed to maintain the key light and rim light. Seriously, this is bad, but coming from incidents like this, this and this, it's a bit of an improvement.

False sighting. AMFD and I were both speculating as to what lead to this incident.

It isn't a false citing. I only appear in a text-book case. Look me up. You are excusing your position and your comments by blaming liberals and San Francisco:

...a disdain i see on this thread and in some parts of the country (like San Fran) and from some liberal quarters...to reverse your argument.

Manju,

A Taser.

In a library.

What exactly are you defending?

So, let's review. Some dude didn't have his ID. After getting hassled, he decided he should probably take off (for whatever reason). Then some cops show up, tase him repeatedly and drag him off, screaming, while students look on in horror/outrage, and, amazingly, don't riot or break bottles over cop heads. In what parallel universe could this POSSIBLY be the fault of the student? What should he have done to prevent an attack? Perhaps he didn't simper enough?

As to this being about the race of the cops, or their training, bullshit. This is simply what happens when you have people put in positions that allow the use of force and place them in hostile relationships with, well, pretty much everyone. Cops almost NEVER have community oversight; they are very rarely disciplined for incidents such as this. There's a nearly endless history of "non-lethal" weapons being used in improper ways, despite training (a friend of mine had his ear blown off by one). The way to deal with this is simply make the cops more responsible to the community. This has worked very well in Boston, where cops are historically mild, and police/community relationships have been taken as a model for other cities to emulate. A few years ago when a girl was killed by "non-lethal" weapons following some post-Red-Sox celebrations, public outrage resulted in some demotions and suspensions, and a drastic review of procedure. The more oversight, the less violent the cops.

Here's what I got from the video:
1) The student was showing non-violent protest for being grabbed even though he was leaving the library - his decision to do so can be questioned but ultimately it's not an act deserving a painful punishment. 2) The officer's were lazily trying to contain a possibly volatile situation. They could have simply dragged him out of the building but their decision to repeatedly taze the student was unnecessary.

I doubt that the police were behaving in a racist manner; more than likely they were reacting to the situation.

Here's what SHOULD come out of all of this: a serious reprimand (possibly suspension) for the officers with a lesson in how to use tazers effectively and a public apology for the student. And an acceptance of that apology by the student and an understanding that they are ultimately human beings who reacted over zealously and have been disciplined accordingly.

Here's what will come out of all of this:
No harm no foul for the officers (Not to downplay what happened to the student but if Rodney King's beaters can walk...I am sure these guys will too) and the student will become a spokesperson for the Iranian community (I believe I read elsewhere that that is his background) and how the LA (possibly American) police uses force.

The human condition is ultimately always gray, never black nor white. * my rare two cents. *

University Cops are dually stressed as well. Cops in general are people who lack formal educational background, a university may as well be planet Venus for them. All the kids who became cops are those that couldn't get admitted or came from families that didn't encourage a college education. Their fathers painted or installed alarm systems or something like that. It's screwed up that you have someone under so much emotional duress in a uniform with a badge and weapon.

Did this guy do something wrong by not leaving right away? Yes.
Would the person have been treated differently if they looked like Pamela Anderson and not a 9-11 hijacker? Yes.

All the kids who became cops are those that couldn't get admitted or came from families that didn't encourage a college education.

HMF are your really John Kerry?

Vinay, r u saying it's obvious from the video that the police were motivated by bigotry?

HMF You know what blanket statements like this

All the kids who became cops are those that couldn't get admitted or came from families that didn't encourage a college education.

Show your ignorance and incite anger unnecessarily.

All I see is use of excess force and some morons trying to defend that.

Tu Quoque Watch:

Tu Quoque is when you excuse a behaviour by saying the other side does it too. this did not happen here.

by your argument, bringing up the other side of the argument like abhi does here: "I am certainly not going to argue that Tabatabainejad did not deserve to be arrested." would be tu quoque too.

Manju,
You are clever enough to know what you did. I am needed elsewhere now. There is only one of me and an entire world full of people committing logical fallacies. Until next we meet (which will all depend on you).

You are clever enough to know what you did.

Don't overstimate me. I'm not sure what i did, besides turning amfd's argument on it's head. maybe a better word for it is Reductio ad absurdum.

what made me angry were the crowds of people not doing anything. while watching the six minute video, i got more and more angry at those who just watched. i kept thinking why? why can't we do something instead of just watching? i put myself in the crowd's multiple shoes and various ages and thought how i would have just stared. i am sure i wouldn't have done anything either due to the shock and fear of the police.

i am proud of the man in the white shirt and the other guy for yelling at the police while in the hallway. they make me proud to be a UCLA alumna.

what made me angry were the crowds of people not doing anything. while watching the six minute video, i got more and more angry at those who just watched.

A couple people have said this now. But what exactly should the students have done? I ask because I am not sure what I would have done that was any different from them. They all documented the hell out of what was going on, asked for badge numbers, and surrounded the cops. The cops have taser guns, pepper spray, batons, and guns and are generally bigger than the students. In addition they were in the middle of watching the cops use excessive force which could have been turned on them.

Do you have a habit of putting words into other people's mouth? When did I suggest bigotry?

i thought you suggested it here:

Possible motive for the police? did you watch the video buddy?

it seems u r saying that if u watch the video the motive for the police is obvious. especially sice yo were replying to a comment where the possibility of bigotry among the police was addressed.

Manju, A Taser. In a library. What exactly are you defending?

i think the kid refused to cooperate with authority, certianly with the community service officers, for whatever reasons, maybe because of his extreme political beliefs as this quote indicates:

“Here’s your Patriot Act, here’s your fucking abuse of power"

He may or may not have started to leave after the community service officer called the campus police. probably the campus police put their hands on him to escort him out and he over-reacted again by screaming hysterically like he was being sent to the gulag or something. the cops then overreacted and ironically gave him what he thought he was getting in the first place.

reminds me of the david mamet play, Oleanna.

first of all, wow. i'm shocked and so mad right now. if other students claim this guy was on his way out, the police should NOT have hassled him AT ALL. he was trying to avoid "real" trouble after ignoring the requests of the library staff. regardless, even if the police felt inclined to intervene and question him, their treatment of him is unforgivable. as abhi pointed out, responding to nonviolent submissive protest with a taser is completely inappropriate. there was just a news special on one of the sf bay area channels about how tasing can KILL people. just imagine if this guy had died.

the student's decision to go limp and protest is questionable but it's not the responsibility of the police to punish him. ugh that video just pisses me off so much. it's amazing the students didn't riot. i was thinking, maybe they should have called 911, but what good would that have even done? corrupt authority can only be addressed ex post facto unfortunately.

the combination of this guy being persian/iranian and his yelling about the patriot act only added fuel to the fire. if they weren't racially/ethnically motivated before i'm sure they were after. these cops didn't exercise appropriate restraint. it's more appropriate to say they were negligent actually. i hope that guy and his family sue the shit out of the police department and win a big 8 figure settlement. i'm also SO glad this was captured and i noticed other people with their cell phones open so hopefully more videos will pop up.

one thing that doesn't make sense to me: don't students need to authenticate themselves on the library computers to use them? doesn't this imply they are allowed to be in the facility using the resources there?

I wonder what really happened? I don't entirely trust either story. They are too much at odds.

*If the kid did go limp and act out some kind of 'heroic resistance', he was being a complete ass. Doesn't mean he should get tasered, though. I'm thinking getting written up and heavily fined or something along those lines....if he was just walking out normally and some campus cop got taser-happy, well, someone should be out of a job, pronto.

**And shame on the person in the comment thread who made the redneck comment. Yes, tasering innocent students is bad. Making assumptions about people because of the color of their skin is bad, too.

***I can't see the video. Does it just show the tasering or the cops dragging him out and then tasering him?

This is what happens when you allow f***in rednecks into the force. f*** trailer trash

Um... stop the clip at 1:38. One officer looks to be Black (shaved head), one officer of Asian descent, and one White . Seems like a pretty diverse group.

A couple people have said this now. But what exactly should the students have done? I ask because I am not sure what I would have done that was any different from them. They all documented the hell out of what was going on, asked for badge numbers, and surrounded the cops. The cops have taser guns, pepper spray, batons, and guns and are generally bigger than the students. In addition they were in the middle of watching the cops use excessive force which could have been turned on them.

My thoughts exactly. If other students start getting in the cops faces, you've got a Kent State type of defense from the police such as "We did what we thought we needed to because we thought our lives were in danger".

All they have to do is point out the students outnumbering the police or waving their arms in anger -accidentally close to police weapons and before you know it, your mom gets a knock on the door.

what made me angry were the crowds of people not doing anything. while watching the six minute video, i got more and more angry at those who just watched. i kept thinking why? why can't we do something instead of just watching?

Altercations with strangers are such complex situations that it's really difficult to judge people especially when asking them to go against authority. I've seen plenty of fights break out where I have the urge to defend someone but don't. I don't get involved and don't have any vested interest in it. My brother got into one however and I was surprised that I jumped in and had no problems whatsoever going against cops bouncers other fighting men and I didn't even need a split second to decide. Why? Vested interest. We all want to do the right thing but it isn't always clear.

I'm not saying kissing ass or licking boots is better though. The students did the best they could by registering indignation and doing their own cop watch style documentation/complaint.

Those cops likely unaware of the concept of civil disobedience. Actually I don't think its a big concept in the USA (I'm sure you'll correct me if this is incorrect). These days - disobedience of any kind toward authority = any punishment the person with authority deems necessary.

Going limp and passive resistance are not questionable to me. Not causing physical harm, not attacking etc. doesn't warrant tasing, or beating or any physical violence. All in all, this is an extreme example of disproportionate response.

This is also classic totalitarian-regime type response to a single citizen's cry of 'encouraging others to join his resistance' when the resistance is passive. Sloganeering while writhing and yelping in pain is apparantly a signal for law enforcement to get in combat mode. Only taser gets free speech?

What finally makes it so much more terrible is that he was only cited, and released. What? That's about as serious as his offence was? All this torture for just that? And here's another example of binary-type laws - he was cited for obstructing the officer. Except for the fact that he existed, I don't think he was obstructing anyone. So if he's not cooperating with authority, then he is obstructing! There's simply no space in there for civil disobedience.

I just watched this and I am so disturbed by this it nearly made me cry. This has truly turned my stomach. And I do believe the other students got involved and confronted the police. There wasn't much they could have really done. But I do hope this makes it everywhere and it's picked up on news segments and these assholes are brought to justice.

This is really sick. Looking at the situation, what could the students have done? Physically, even the slightest action would cause all hell to break loose on everyone. Asking for badge numbers and names was quite brave as was walking out and keeping an eye on the situation. I'm glad they did that. Other than that, what can one do? Remaining calm is absolutely necessary. You can't give the police excuses for more brutality and you can't cool a situation down by pushing it further. At most, you could offer to carry the man, so they won't hurt him more. I doubt the officers would have let the students do that, but at least that would be an attempt at diffusing the situation. I don't really have any clear cut answers.

This makes me speechless and sad.

it seems u r saying that if u watch the video the motive for the police is obvious

especially sice yo were replying to a comment where the possibility of bigotry among the police was addressed.

Here is the order of the comments
bigotry first mentioned here
my response was to your comment.
your response was to comment.
which was in response to your comment.

Nope! no mention or hinting of bigotry in any of those comments. Stop hallucinating.

I don't like how everybody here is feeling so powerless. Here is at least, some evidence, that those who abuse power and commit heinous acts, will have to face justice...http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16219367.htm

Vinay:

Motive is not a question here and should not be an excuse and therefore I allege that you are subverting the discussion by bringing in motive as a factor in the incident.

It's Abhi who started the "subverting":

Add to this toxic mix the fact that he was Muslim (and I’m guessing that he probably has brown skin).

i not sure why you have your panties in such a twist. every criminal has a motive so it should be part of a discussion and was being discussed here as you concede with the "redneck" reference. Anyway, i simply asked you if that is what you meant by this comment...

Possible motive for the police? did you watch the video buddy?

...because that's the way it read to me. I wasn't making any accusatons.

Nope! no mention or hinting of bigotry in any of those comments. Stop hallucinating.

I have to wait for the LSD to wear off.

I am wrong in thinking that the police officers acted properly ?

... the police officers acted properly ?

How so?

I am wrong in thinking that the police officers acted properly ?

I don't know. Are you?

i not sure why you have your panties in such a twist. every criminal has a motive so it should be part of a discussion

Manju,
His panties are in a twist because you are often a troll disguised as a reasonable person (which I find to be the worst kind). In every comment you place a single word or two to up the ante in the hopes of provoking a response (such as the type Vinay has provided). In the sentence above you throw in the word "criminal." Again, the victim is a criminal and apparently I am now "subverting" people. Blaming liberals and residents of San Fran is no longer sufficient for you I see. In the next comment I'd put money down on the fact that you will find a way to blame Clinton for this as you are prone to do. As long as the police don't share any blame whatsoever.

Don't worry though. If that's ever you getting tasered I will still blog vociferously in your defense.

every criminal has a motive so it should be part of a discussion and was being discussed here as you concede with the "redneck" reference.

Wow!! I salute your logic and debating skills.. criminal???

And there goes Vinay on cue (he left his comment at the same time I did)!

I rest my case.

Don't worry though. If that's ever you getting tasered I will still blog vociferously in your defense.

What rubbish. Manju is a law-abiding citizen. He would never get tasered.

Besides, he's not even Muslim. He's as safe as a pacifist's pistol.

The video clip is proof of nothing. As bad as it sounds, can anyone make out when exactly the cops taserd him? It seems the student was too 'freaked out' and was probably scaring the cops with his behavior.

I could be wrong, maybe this was a case of abuse of power by the cops. Guess we ll have to wait and see.

Manju, His panties are in a twist because you are often a troll disguised as a reasonable person (which I find to be the worst kind)

Stupid motherffers. This is what happens when you allow f***in rednecks into the force. f*** trailer trash

I don't get how people think their greviances about racism (even when they're legitimate) are going to be taken seriously when they use words like "rednecks" and "trailer trash". White people aren't racists because they live in rural America or because they're poor. Privilege is blinding, and white people are racists when they choose to be content with it.

Anyway, on the actual substance of your comment, cops aren't racists because they're white (of course, they can be, but not that's not a given). Cops are racist because they're cops. The foundations of policing in America makes racism an inherent part of it.

And since we're quoting rap lyrics here's a pretty succinct Dead Prez line:

"Black cop, White cop, All cop.

Black and brown cops are recruited to cover for, and even legitimize, racial profiling.

I couldn't find a link, so here's from "Assume the Position" by Trends (you can now add South Asian and brown Middle Eastern wherever it says black and Latino, although I still think no one else has it as bad as black people with regards to police violence in America):

Ok, another day,
Some more damage to do.
Funny, how many lives
My job will manage to screw.
Lets see, I got my gun, (check)
My night stick (check)
To beat n*s for fun.
Wait a sec, I ain't done yet:
I got a magical badge
That has the power to make you respect me.
Also wearin' a vest that protects me.
I shoot first,
'Cause it's worse if you at me.
Now a n*'s dead.
Thought he had a gun.
It was just a pack of Nestles.
Oh but it ain't that drastic -
Another bastard that got blasted.
What's the big deal?
A n* died, that's it.

I'm human, I make mistakes.
Now he'll be in a casket.
Funny, if I was a doctor,
I'd be sued for my practice.
But I'm not, I'm a cop,
I get away wid' it.
The manual says:
He's something of color, you hit it.
Got a call from the station -
A caucasian from the district
Committed a crime,
But I'mma just say
That a n* did it.
I fix it to make it seem like minorities
Don't respect authority,
And is a threat
To the majority and society.
Pardon me for saying,
But probably makin' n*s feel inferior
Should be a priority.

You have the right to remain oppressed.
What you say doesn't matter when you're under arresst.
You'll be found guilty in the court of law anyway.
It doesn't matter what you do,
don't matter what you say.

I wonder
Is it just because that I'm nervous
I start firin'
And killin' minorities? -
Wait a second,
We should hire them!
They won't figure out
that we're racist
'Cause we're providing them
With people of color that are cops,
Sittin' beside with them.
Yes, officer Bob,
The boss here thinks
You're a poor fuckin' slob.
Thought you had a friend
When you got offered the job.
Who cares if you're a cop,
N*, I don't give a fuck.
We just use y'all n* cops
To lock n*s up.
Can't you see through the bullshit we do?
We're really evil.
And n*s is the best,
'Cause you'll arrest your own people.

But back to me -
I'm a good cop,
But that don't hang.
That's like saying I'm the good hoodlum
Inside the gang.
Never change,
I'mma always remain the same.
You know what?
I'mma fuckin' monkey in a blue suit
Addicted to doughnuts.
I roll up on hispanics and blacks,
Shoot them in the back,
Then act like I don't understand
when y'all overreact.
You try to fight,
And march and protest in Seattle like that,
Aause ya'll get organized.
That's when I go pull out my night dick
- excuse me - my night stick
And beat you all in your face.
Don't unite -
My job's to keep minorities in their place.
In case you don't know,
I'm a cop, man.
I'mma strip you, damn slut.
And when I say freeze,
Ya better have your fuckin' hands up.

OOOps! That's me up there ^^

What will come of it? Not much if past reports from other jurisdictions are any indication (An amnesty report).

This is apparently standard practice for cops/security folks. Nobody is safe. It has been used to wake sleeping students (according to the same amnesty report).

Jeez! Apparently all anybody can do is to say "thank you sir, may I have another one".

If a sworn officer asks you to do something that goes against your constitutional rights, just do it and sue afterwards like this lady (Plastic.com link about the story. The original story needs registration).

Am in Shock!

Don't they teach negotiation at the police academy. It is cruel to use a taser on the guy when he is not a physical threat to them. The cops are dimwits and should be sent to work in suburban malls. Let's see them use tasers on white teenage potheads!

The Protest:
PROTEST PLANED at Noon on Friday November 17, 2006 on Kirchoff Steps at UCLA

Its an important incident. The mild reaction of the students, the lack of solidarity or even notice on USC's campus across town. Both are incredibly disappointing. I hope to see you there on Friday. Like someone said, this isn't an exclusively brown issue. More than anything its an issue of power and the abuse of power.

On Countdown with Keith Olbermann, it was reported (and this is corroborated from the video) that when some of the other students asked the officers for their names and badges, the officers threatened to taser them as well.

Hmm... Of course, it's rather difficult to get the whole story from the clip or the news stories. I agree that the police did not handle the situation well. Was tasering an abuse of power? I don't know. If the police had started out by trying to carry the man out, would things have turned out much better, or would it simply be another form of abuse of power?

Was this a case of civil disobedience? I'm not sure. If so, it was poorly executed. His shouting and belligerence before being tasered seemed to be more of a civil disturbance than anything else. Given his choices of words, such as `Here's your...abuse of power.', leaves me to think that possibly he was trying to elicit this reaction, to provoke a response.

In any case, I guess my opinion is that there really isn't enough information to draw any conclusions (the video starts well into the escalation), but I'm not sure that there is any party here that is completely free from fault.

From the Daily Bruin:

During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.

Such a threat of the use of force by a law enforcement officer in response to a request for a badge number is an "illegal assault," Eliasberg said.

"It is absolutely illegal to threaten anyone who asks for a badge -- that's assault," he said.

UCLA is investigating this internally -- but the more important question is whether LAPD or the FBI is investigating it as well. LA Mutineers -- maybe time to be making some phone calls....

> coach diesel on November 16, 2006 08:55 PM · Direct link
> I don't like how everybody here is feeling so powerless. Here is at least, some evidence, that those who abuse power and commit heinous acts,
will have to face justice...http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16219367.htm

Oh but people very often do get away--with murder sometimes. Incidents have happened to me and at that same school--UCLA. The professors I have encountered can and do abuse their power. Everyone knows about the things that go on but no one really cares. Just one small UCLA incident that would be of interest to other brown-skinned people: I was asked if I was a Muslim and if I would be any trouble by one Chinese professor. He made lots of other discriminatory remarks. And when this came out another Chinese professor said similar things (except for the Muslim part). Both professors were promoted "retroactively" to full professors and that was the only action taken "against" them. Me, I left my home in California--it felt like I was running for my life. I've been in France and am applying to schools in Europe. I am also posting anonymously since like I said, I'm afraid for my life. So there is UCLA for you. Lawsuit--against a $66 billion dollar mafia? No way.

Let me amend by statement, if this is true:

On Countdown with Keith Olbermann, it was reported (and this is corroborated from the video) that when some of the other students asked the officers for their names and badges, the officers threatened to taser them as well.

...then such threats are completely unacceptable.

I'm guessing that the police's response will be that it's hard unwind after such an escalation, but there is absolutely no excuse for threatening a bystander who simply wants to get a name and badge number.

Using taser in such a situation cannot be justified. From the video, it didn't appear that the guy posed any kind of physical threat to the officers (or fellow students).

One thing which I couln't understand was the reason why this guy initially refused to leave the library. Did he mean to provoke a response from the campus security...and later from the campus police ?

Gun + badge = Power = Abuse of power. Check Amadou Diallo or Abner Louima for reference. This guy, however misguided he might have been, was taking a stand in defense of his civil liberties, and for that he has earned my respect. And it may be easy to blame the other students standing around, but it's likely that all that getting in a cop's face would have won them was a taste of the taser and a ride to the local precinct. It's a shame when a guy nonviolently expresses his discontent with the status quo, and is given a facefull of high voltage for his efforts. Brown people unite.

there is absolutely no excuse for threatening a bystander who simply wants to get a name and badge number.

and if it's true, it may shed light on the rest of the encounter as well.

For a state that has some of the strictest laws on private gun ownership, CA sure has some of the most trigger happy and taser happy cops. And tasers don't seem to be as safe as once thought:

Scrutiny mounting on Taser use

A growing number of deaths involving Tasers is fueling a debate among law enforcement officers, legislators, and state and federal regulators, who are asking if the electric stun gun is as safe as they were led to believe.

Now, a forensic engineer who has written safety standards for the most respected electrical laboratories and commissions in the world is warning police departments that shocks from Tasers could cause a delayed cardiac arrest and that injuries to officers and suspects who are zapped could be going undetected.

...

Law enforcement agencies in California, Georgia, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Florida and North Carolina have backed off Taser deployments, citing safety concerns. Agencies also have expressed concern about officers shocking children as young as 6 and senior citizens as old as 82 over incidents such as refusing to pay for a salad at a Chuck E. Cheese restaurant.
link

This article on the BBC news site says that tasers cause temporary paralysis. How can you expect someone to get up once you've paralyzed them? I echo the comments that articulated how difficult it was to watch this clip. Not only was it heartbreaking to hear and see someone suffering, it left me wondering if I would have intervened with passion and courage had I had been browsing there that night. I hope so. I pray so.

I agree the most with Dan's comment # 90. If indeed these cops are found guilty of reacting disproportionately, I wish they get tasered up their asses. I also for a change agree with AMfD in comment # 14. However you also have to look at the other side. I think most cops in this country do a fair job and quite a few get killed on duty every year just because they hadn't preemptedviolence directed at them, in the spirit of being extra careful. However this guy's behavior, even though he is unarmed, also comes across to me as extremely unreasonable. He is screaming at the top of his lungs even before he is tasered the first time. I also find it incredible that the cops would ask for back up and use force if he had volunteered to leave the library. From the LA Times article you linked, it looks like this behavior is not typical of UCLA campus police.

" "UCLA is a very peaceful campus," said Chen Mei, a third-year political science student from Laguna Hills. "I study in Powell Library at night all the time. I've seen people without ID cards who are removed. But none of the time has it been this dramatic."

Karen Jou, a second-year student from Orange, said the campus police "usually are really good."

"I wouldn't have thought that would have happened here," she said. "It's really odd."

Julia Newbold, a third-year English literature major from Walnut Creek, said her impression from her limited contact with campus police was good.

"They seem like a peacekeeping force," she said. "I'm really surprised to hear they had to resort to something like that. It sounds a little too forceful to me to Taser someone."

You will note in the video that the other students in the library are on the verge of rioting against the police.

No they are not. So I was shocked why the large student body in the hall wouldn't riot? Given that this is UCLA and it was a perfect opportunity for the largely activist student body to rage against the machine. I'd think these are not timid students who could be subdued with threats of being tasered. My point is that this student had some sort of preplanned agenda ( e.g patriot act sloganeering ) which went completely haywire.

Thank god the cops were not actually White. I can only imagine what hell would have broken loose on this blog.

But most of all what I don't get is the contempt for Manju. Can't there be another viewpoint on this issue? I have always believed that the extreme left is just as intolerant as the extreme right. Why don't you admit it that Manju routinely demolishes your arguments? And this is not the first time I have read you personally insult a commenter who takes you on. I have read at least four such comments of yours in the recent past.

I also find it incredible that the cops would use excessive force unless they had reason to in the full view of at least hundred students. This was not a desolate stretch of some LA highway with no one around where some White cops had wanted to stick it to the Brown, Muslim man.

The story is still really sketchy. So far there are 3 videos. Enough to prove something or another. One thing that's missing from all the stories though is if the guy was a student or not. That's still not to say it's an excuse for an abuse of power.

One thing that's missing from all the stories though is if the guy was a student or not.

From the UCLA Daily Bruin:

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

The last sentence above should also be within the quotation.

sluggo:

One thing that's missing from all the stories though is if the guy was a student or not

His name shows up on the UCLA directory search ..so I guess he's a student at UCLA.

the library must have its own video of the entire incident. most areas of uc libraries are monitored via video. when and if that comes out, it should provide a more complete answer to what indeed exacerbated the situation.

i'm pretty sure i've read that he definitely is a student.

i hope this guy is doing ok. is he saying that he has a medical condition close to the end of the video?

I also find it incredible that the cops would use excessive force unless they had reason to in the full view of at least hundred students. This was not a desolate stretch of some LA highway with no one around where some White cops had wanted to stick it to the Brown, Muslim man.

It could have been a lot worse if it were a desolate stretch of some LA highway with no one around.

This was a library for fucks sake!
Not a shady bar, not a testosterone filled zone (sports arena) etc.

When did geeks and students become a threat and need tazering?!

Cops need their balls chopped.
Too much testosterone is a bad thing.

What rubbish. Manju is a law-abiding citizen. He would never get tasered.

Besides, he's not even Muslim. He's as safe as a pacifist's pistol.

Mr. K, your quick with deserves, dare I say it, a blog of its own. Ahem.

Wit. I meant wit. Clearly I do not deserve a blog of my own.

It could have been a lot worse if it were a desolate stretch of some LA highway with no one around.

Agreed. High handedness by people in uniforms should be fought back. I sympathize with their victims' urge to even fight it violently.

What I find most chilling is the cop who keeps repeating "Stand Up, Stand Up." I'm sure (or rather I hope) they are told in their training the physiological effect that a Taser would have on a victim. But he still keeps repeating his demand in a robotic manner. This is what actual torture would look like.

i think the kid refused to cooperate with authority, certianly with the community service officers, for whatever reasons, maybe because of his extreme political beliefs as this quote indicates:

“Here’s your Patriot Act, here’s your fucking abuse of power"

Are you serious?? He said this after he. was. tasered.

*

But most of all what I don't get is the contempt for Manju. Can't there be another viewpoint on this issue?

My point is that this student had some sort of preplanned agenda ( e.g patriot act sloganeering ) which went completely haywire.

Abu Ghraib of sorts in UCLA

Jesus Christ

1) When you get tazered, it hurts like a bitch, but as soon as the power goes off you regain your motor control. The fact that the guy was screaming while he was being tazered meant he didn't even get a full charge.

2) The guy was asked repeatedly to stand up, he didn't. (again, you're not all loose after a tazer stun, you have full motor control within seconds)

The Taser is used here to punish the victim for disobeying authority.

The tazer is a far better option than pure physical brute force trying to get a guy out of the area. Why? The probability of getting hurt is greater when policemen will physically force you out of an area, vs you doing so under your own power. Think of it in this way, there were only two policemen no back up, a library full of students, its a college campus, and a guy is causing a scene. They weren't punishing him, they were trying to get him to leave under his own power and not actually physically rough him up. The Patriot Act line may be cause for a standing ovation in this crowd, but it was pretty stupid and dumb. This had nothing to do with the patriot act or anything else. The guy escalated a scene in the library of all places, refused to show ID (when he had it on him) to student patrol (who are not armed), then with police, then everytime he said he'd go, he'd do another flop on the ground. Even for two guys, a dude playing 'dead weight' is difficult.

THE SCREAMING LOOKS FAR WORSE THAN IT REALLY IS. All police have to undergo tazer stuns everytime they qualify (or atleast once depending on department rules), specifically to understand the effects of it and how to employ it. Regardless of whatever emotional reaction one has here, in terms of the law, the police and student patrol tried to get the guy out and it escalated.

his article on the BBC news site says that tasers cause temporary paralysis.

How do you not know the guy, who was talking back (while on the ground saying he'd get up, but wouldn't), wasn't showing physical movement? Can you see if the guy is resisting with force while on the ground, in between stuns, when the cop is asking 'get up'? No. The video is grainy, a few statements have filtered to the press, others still haven't (another messageboard has a student saying he witnessed it from beginning to end, and the police had very little option other than to tazer the guy out of the library. He was still agitating the police while on the ground saying he would get up but didn't.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJsRHYutL2k

Here is a video of a cadet getting a FIVE second blast at a pretty high setting.

A tazer should NOT be drawn the same way as a gun. The whole idea of a tazer is to use NON LETHAL force. Drawing a gun is LETHAL force. Pepper Spray (not the piddly commercial shit, but police stuff) isn't the best option. You know why? In the closed environment of the library, it WILL get into people's lungs around and half that crowd will run away with irrriatated throats. I've been in the proximity of a pepper spray incident by police at a bar. Half the bar cleared out because the pepper spray got everywhere.

I can see how most of you feel this is a crime of unspeakable proportions, but your analysis on what police can/cannot do, their options, their methods, and rationale behind particular course of action is severely lacking.

And those suggesting/recommending the students to have taken action against police disappoint me. The idiot asking the cops for their badge number WHILE they were dealing with someone physically is the worst thing to do. They don't have to do jack shit and if other students mobbed the police, they would have been in deep shit. Making a record and telling their version of the truth when the investigation occurs is the best thing one can do. The truth of what you saw, and giving said testimony in the courtroom is the best way to go. Cornering policemen only makes the situation far worse.

My recommendation? Let the investigation take its course and all eyewitness accounts (whom all seemed to have had better view of all the events) be recorded. Don't get caught up in the emotion of the video, look at the law and see what it has to say. If policemen violated their own procedures or law, they should be punished. If not, well those of you who don't like the law as it is then, get it changed.

But I'm sure someone will make an ad hominem attack on me for 'favoring' oppressive pigs, racist cops, or authority figures.

1) When you get tazered, it hurts like a bitch, but as soon as the power goes off you regain your motor control. The fact that the guy was screaming while he was being tazered meant he didn't even get a full charge.

2) The guy was asked repeatedly to stand up, he didn't. (again, you're not all loose after a tazer stun, you have full motor control within seconds)

GujuDude: I think MassaleWallah's link is work quoting here:

According the University of California Police Department:

The Hiring, Training and Backgrounds Unit worked to recruit and qualify candidates for several police and dispatch positions. We have enhanced the roll-call training program by interfacing it with the California P.O.S.T.'s police training DVD series. We are also in the beginning phases of transitioning to using the Advanced X26 Taser in the field.

Now, I wonder what a Taser X26 does, according to its instruction manual [.pdf]:

TASER-induced strong muscle contractions usually render a subject temporarily unable to control his or her psychomotor movements. This may result in secondary injuries such as those due to falls. This loss of control, or inability to catch oneself, can in special circumstances increase the risk(s) of serious injury or death.

But but but, it's only temporary. Well then, it's a good thing they didn't taser him multiple times, or (as the instruction manual says):

When practical, avoid prolonged or continuous exposure(s) to the TASER device's electrical discharge. In some circumstances, in susceptible people, it is conceivable that the stress and exertion of extensive repeated, prolonged, or continuous application(s) of the TASER device may contribute to cumulative exhaustion, stress, and associated medical risk(s).

"Cumulative exhaustion"? What? Like that'd stop someone from getting up? I'm sorry, I don't know the specifics, but if the instruction manual clearly states that the student may have been physically incapable to comply with the officers' requests, you'd think that'd be important. Maybe even, I don't know, reflect poorly on the way campus police officers are trained?

I've never seen a tazing before but this video was absolutely chilling and brought me flash-backs of when I witnessed some bullying in high-school and felt powerless to intervene.

THE SCREAMING LOOKS FAR WORSE THAN IT REALLY IS

Right!! You'd know, since you use one to brush your teeth every morning, isn't it?

Well, just for those who don't have a 'control' sample of a tazer hit (I posted this above, but it got screwed up), here it is again. FIVE seconds.

TASER-induced strong muscle contractions usually render a subject temporarily unable to control his or her psychomotor movements.

This lasts a few seconds. The questions in-between the tazer stuns (while none of us can really see the dude or his reactions) were far longer than that. Again, the law is written around what reasonable people would do. The dude trying to incite a riot (telling other students to join in), legally makes his case worse.

Like I said, the video is hazy, the statements are all over the place and most of them are lacking on substance, though emotionally charged.

I am not sure if Manju was ascribing the pigs and trailer trash remarks somehow to the said student. I think he was making a general point. And how are you so sure that's not how this student feels about cops? I mean why wouldn't he leave the library in the first place? Why the racket? Between the time he was asked to leave and he was first tasered, there was enough opportunity for him to leave the building on his own. This kid was sure angry about some things. I respect his right to rage but there's a place and time for it. Maybe that's why he didn't win genuine sympathy of the students who probably would have rioted in his favor then. As far as the witness accounts are concerned I hope they are all taken into account. But it won't be surprising if a few vociferous ones will always be in solidarity of their fellow student. Someone already made the point as to what kind of alternative police action wouldn't be considered excessive in such a situation.

Manju's criminal reference was in bad taste. But why would you pounce upon it to discredit his entire commenting history on this blog by saying " he is a troll disguised as a reasonable person ". Do you call your various friends on this blog 'trolls'? The ones who routinely call America, Republicans, Bush and the White Man criminal? You call Manju a "reactionary". The truth is some of us moderates who comment here from time to time are so taken aback by the blatant leftist slant of this blog and most of it's comments that we are forced to react fiercely and we do often come across, I admit even in our own eyes, being more to the right than we actually are.

PROTEST TOMORROW

Anyone in the LA Area, Come by UCLA at NOON tomorrow for a protest of this absolutely horrendous situation. That video was ridiculous, and I'm glad people took the video - citizen advocacy journalism at it's finest.

Gujudude, I respect where you're coming from but, like Abhi says in the post, don't you think there is something seriously wrong if the reaction to non-violent civil-disobedience ("going limp") is a violent pain-inducing act like a tazering ? I suspect there is a better way.

Also, please note that the tazer you've experienced might not be as advanced as the one the UCLA police used. And multiple times at that.

And nobody here is disagreeing with you that we should wait for the full investigation (if done thoroughly) to make final judgements.

Right!! You'd know, since you use one to brush your teeth every morning, isn't it?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Poor dental care. You mean twice a day - morning and before sleeping.

Again, all the responses, understandably have been emotive.

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE. POPOS SUCK!!! DOWN WID DA SySTEM!!!!

Lets put it this way. Do you think, reverting back to what Police used to do (gun and a baton) would be a better application of force? Maybe everyone can fund 2 extra shifts of police (along with all their training, pension, and medical costs) to go and remove jackasses from libraries.

Hell, if the cops drew their guns (which they wouldn't because you do so not to threaten, but to really use deadly force), half that crowd and the dude would have shut up. I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT.

But lets run down the options police has to remove someone breaking the law from the premisis (which they have a warrant/charter to do) for a NON LETHAL situation.

1) Convince the guy
2) Physical brute force
3) Pepper Spray
4) Taser

Option 1: Failed. The guy didn't want to leave.
Option 2: TWo police officers (student police aren't allowed to get physical) and a resisting student. They don't want to bruise his bones (nor get hurt themselves).
Option 3: Indoors library, several students in close proximity. Pepper spray is a no-go.
OPtion 4: tazer and convince him to move out under his own power.

ONLY way I see the kid getting around this one is if he can CONCLUSIVELY prove the tazers incapacitated him beyond getting up, physically or psychologically.

My last parting words before I take leave of this thread. Three things have brought about the most change in the world - universal sufferage, rule of law instituted from it, and science. Tazers, overall, have proven to be quite effective as a policing tool. There are always exceptions to the rule, but the overall effect of tazers has been better for society. So, before y'all go charging up because what you saw was scary as shit, stand back for a second and understand what tools WE give the police and how WE authorize its use.

Again, if the policemen broke STANDING OPERATION PROCEDURES (note: not recommendations), they are in violation of their duties. Else, they progressed as they were authorized. If you think a tazer is a brutal tool, get rid of it. You'll be facing the same life/death and more beatings (not that LA has a poor history of it).

Also, please note that the tazer you've experienced might not be as advanced as the one the UCLA police used. And multiple times at that.

Just to clarify, that is not me in the youtube video :) Its a white guy, I'm brown as an oreo biscuit.

And nobody here is disagreeing with you that we should wait for the full investigation (if done thoroughly) to make final judgements.

I would respectfully disagree. People seem to have already made their minds up based upon an emotional response and have already considered the police to be the guilty party. Just adds to my general observation here that people in our community, here, (and overall) aren't all too well informed on police or military tactics that we civilians authorize. An image is worth a thousand words, though it may never convey the depth of information needed to make the right/informed judgement.

PROTEST TOMORROW

Anyone in the LA Area, Come by UCLA at NOON tomorrow for a protest of this absolutely horrendous situation. That video was ridiculous, and I'm glad people took the video - citizen advocacy journalism at it's finest

Ok, now I'm finally out.

Option 1: Failed. The guy didn't want to leave.

While he might not have wanted to leave at the very first encounter...

From the Daily Bruin:

By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm...

Seems like he was leaving according to the paper and based on that, your list doesn't jive. Why not just walk with him instead of touching him and causing a possible confrontation?

The video is chilling. I echoe the setiments above supporting non-violent resistance and denouncing abuse of power. Lets hope this incident gets the full investigation it deserves

We should be aware, however, that the temptation to use a specicic incident to make general statements is dangerous. Surely we all recognize police brutality as a horrible problem in our society, bred by a combination of bigotry, laziness, and narcissism (fed, in turn, by excessive adulation). And we all know that the PATRIOT Act is being applied racistly.

I understand and share in the wanting to document the intersection of police brutality and PATRIOT-ic racism, but this incident may not be an instance of that. But maybe it is. we should first get the facts.

Gujudude: You forgot option 5) Call for backup (a subset of option 2, i suppose). Surely 4 cops (one for each limb?) could have taken him outside without the need for a taser ?

People on this thread and at the protest tomorrow are voicing their opinion that they'd rather not see something like this ever again; and that's a good thing. Think of it as a strong expression of revulsion which will be taken into consideration in the final sober cost-benefit analysis.

to my 126, i want to add that, despite the specific facts, demonstrating to ensure that future events dont escalate the way they did here is fully appropriate.

Well, just for those who don't have a 'control' sample of a tazer hit (I posted this above, but it got screwed up), here it is again. FIVE seconds.

Control sample?! Are you kidding me? That video makes as much sense as a 'control' sample as this one does, of what a person should be able to do with his/her bare hands.

Tazers, overall, have proven to be quite effective as a policing tool. There are always exceptions to the rule, but the overall effect of tazers has been better for society.

Any actual facts/data/studies you'd like to cite to back such a wide ranging claim? And while you're out there googling for some, perhaps you could spend a few minutes reading this?

Excellent links Masale.Wallah.

Here's another one for GujuDude and company. Enjoy.

I heard about this late last night, and I wanted to add two things:
1) UCLA police is not the same as campus police; they make up the UCPD and are a valid police force (as opposed to a security force)
2) There is a rally for the student on Friday morning taking place around noon time in front of the Kerchoff steps.

Abhi:

In every comment you place a single word or two to up the ante in the hopes of provoking a response (such as the type Vinay has provided). In the sentence above you throw in the word "criminal."

read the sentance in it's context...

i not sure why you have your panties in such a twist. every criminal has a motive so it should be part of a discussion and was being discussed here as you concede with the "redneck" reference. Anyway, i simply asked you if that is what you meant by this comment...

the criminal i'm refering to are the cops, obviously since they are the only one's being called "rednecks" and the ones vinay was referring to in his comments. we were talking about the cop's motives.

Again, the victim is a criminal and apparently I am now "subverting" people.

It was this little Vinay boy who was throwing around the theory that discussing motives constituted subversion:

I allege that you are subverting the discussion by bringing in motive as a factor in the incident.

His panties are in a twist because you are often a troll disguised as a reasonable person

I looked up "troll" and i came up with this:

a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages.

this sounds more like Kobayashi. i'm not in his league. give me some time.

I'd put money down on the fact that you will find a way to blame Clinton for this as you are prone to do.

You misunderstand me. I like clinton; i think the charges of sexual harassment are just as credible as the ones made against clarance thomas and and bob packwood (appropriate name, huh). i just wish he didn't rape juanita broderick. it's a sad day when fascists like me are the only one's standing up for women's rights.

GujuDude: very informative, dispassionate, and objective posts.
jilted_manhood: thanks for the fairness.

i'm not in his league. give me some time.

so, you're just a mini-troll (or mini-Kobayashi - to use your own example of a troll) now and aspiring for greater troll achievements?

so, you're just a mini-troll

a little bit of something, is better than a lot of nothing.

y'know, what abhi said, especially this..."you are often a troll disguised as a reasonable person (which I find to be the worst kind)" reminds me of something saurav at "pass the roti" said to me once. he called my defence of gays at the hands of muslim bigots to be "the worst kind of lying". he thought i was beng disingenuous, as abhi seems to think.

it reminds me of this exchange.
to which anna replied.

conservative thought is just not taken seriously in some quarters, despite being the world's, or at least the US's dominant ideology. but i really mean what i say and i'm not trying to be provocative...just maybe a liittle bit funny at times. it fact, i think i'm rather mainstream...unlike kobayashi who is much more an oscar wilde character but somehow accepted as genuine here.

Shameful,the whole incident!
Brings me to tears and makes me ashamed to be in this place!, this whole planet!

Is it a citizen's right to ask for name and badge number or is that just Hollywood fiction?

Well, that video was quite thought-provoking.....

It's difficult to gauge what was really going on from the footage, although of course the "dialogue" can be heard very clearly.

I would cautiously agree with GujuDude's comments above. I don't know if anyone can really have an informed opinion without a thorough (and accurate) knowledge of what really happened, especially in light of the conflicting accounts. It's probably best not to base one's stance on conjecture and assumptions, whether it's regarding the police or Tabatabainejad himself.

unlike kobayashi who is much more an oscar wilde character but somehow accepted as genuine here.

I like Mr Kobayashi a lot, and generally find him to be an extremely intelligent, insightful and sensitive person. And obviously very funny. I have been known to crack a joke or two myself from time to time on SM. However, I do get the impression that he is given a little more slack than usual because he knows some of the Mutineers offline, particularly in relation to his occasional use of different usernames when commenting (which is normally not allowed). I am also going to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he (or one of the Mutineers) was not the person behind that "JaiLam" post a little while ago, which -- although faintly amusing -- was an example of very bad timing indeed.

I missed this earlier, and I may be nit-picking, but I couldn't help but cringe:

jilted_manhood:

If indeed these cops are found guilty of reacting disproportionately, I wish they get tasered up their asses.

See, this frustrates me because it reflects the notion that regulation and justice have to be violent. This cruelty-for-cruelty, blast-his-brains-out-that'll-solve-everything attitude is so unproductive. Abhi would defend Manju if Manju were the guy getting tasered, and I would defend the cops' rights to humane treatment - and I say this as someone who thinks policing bodies are inherently racist paramilitary terrorist organizations.

BTW Taz and other people organizing/attending the protest rally -

I don't like much of what GujuDude has said about this incident, but I do agree on his point that y'all need to make sure you have your facts straight before you demonstrate today. As someone who has attended and organized many protests (and gotten roughed up, pepper-sprayed, tear-gased, arrested, and almost officially banned from the People's Republic of China) and knows what UC organizing looks like, I stress that it's for Mostafa's and his supporters' benefit that the organizers really, really do their homework before everybody goes out there. Make sure everyone is crystal clear on the legalities of the situation, because if you aren't, you're bound to get caught up in the moment and make claims and accusations that are false. Make sure you know what all the speakers are going to say. Make sure Mostafa would agree with any claims made about him. Just be careful. It can torpedo the PR for your side if you mess up on the facts; they'll dismiss you as a bunch of race-baiting infantile leftists.

I do get the impression that he is given a little more slack than usual because he knows some of the Mutineers offline, particularly in relation to his occasional use of different usernames when commenting (which is normally not allowed).

Incorrect. If anything he is one of the most consistent people here handle-wise.

I am also going to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he (or one of the Mutineers) was not the person behind that "JaiLam" post a little while ago

He most certainly was not, nor was any of us.

conservative thought is just not taken seriously in some quarters, despite being the world's, or at least the US's dominant ideology. but i really mean what i say and i'm not trying to be provocative...just maybe a liittle bit funny at times. it fact, i think i'm rather mainstream...unlike kobayashi who is much more an oscar wilde character but somehow accepted as genuine here.

Manju, No Von Mises had this to say about you a while back, and a lot of people would agree, including me. I don't take you as a character seriously, but I do take your voice as a mainstream conservative seriously, and I appreciate its role here. Although... what's with the hateration on Mr Kobayashi? He doesn't come close to the definition of a troll because he's never been inflammatory or inappropriate, and he doesn't go off topic any more than you or anyone else. Besides, I think he likes you (though probably not in the Oscar Wilde kinda way).

However, I do get the impression that he is given a little more slack than usual because he knows some of the Mutineers offline, particularly in relation to his occasional use of different usernames when commenting (which is normally not allowed).

He is given a little more slack because a lot of people think he's absolutely right on (they even say so!), and because he's pretty damn funny. And, well, you know, who doesn't appreciate free comedy? And the different handles? I must have missed it (but please don't link the evidence to prove it - this subject of Mr Kobayashi's involvement on SM has been blown out of proportion at this point).

oops, sorry Siddhartha, I didn't refresh to see that you had commented on it already.

those who are in LA should try to make the rally..

the force used was complete and utter overkill...

there is a great article here in the lancet about the use of taser gun

Effects of stun guns and tasers.
The Lancet, Volume 358, Issue 9283, Pages 687-688
R. Fish, L. Geddes

i'm on the article right now.. here it is some of it due to copyright issues :(

The effects of stun guns have been reported to increase with duration of application. With electrodes 5 cm apart, applications of up to 0.5 s will cause the victim to be startled and repelled. 1-2 s of discharge of current will cause the victim to fall. Falls commonly occur in a slow semi-controlled fashion. The degree of sensation evoked by these devices can result in a response that far outlasts the duration of the current, so discharges of 3-5 s may leave the victim immobilised, dazed, and weak for 5-15 min.[2] In most people a stun gun applied for 4-5 s under the rib cage will bring them to their knees and weaken them.[1]

those barbaric a-holes.
it makes me want to vomit.
and when others wanted to help and get the ID's of the campus police, for them be threatend to taser them too?

i remember studying at powell when i was at ucla... and if you got into the library before 10pm no ID's were checked... so if i went at 8pm...and studied pass the time they started checking and i happened to forget, i was screwed...but i think this guy was frustrated because it is a dumb rule.. check id's all the time.. so people will have them on all the time.. and it's equality no matter what time you enter the library...

infantile leftists

ah Shruti, you don't know how much I love that term- it's brought so much clarity to my jumbledness, not to mention less friends left, right, north, and south. This is how David Rieff must feel.

Libraries aren't the place to taser folks. I think libraries are damn near sacred.

Shruti,

He is given a little more slack

I was referring to him being given more slack by the Mutineers/moderators, not by the rest of us.

a lot of people think he's absolutely right on (they even say so!), and because he's pretty damn funny.

Yes he is, on both counts. I said so myself in my previous post.

but please don't link the evidence to prove it - this subject of Mr Kobayashi's involvement on SM has been blown out of proportion at this point

Agreed ;)

almost officially banned from the People's Republic of China

That's what happens when you're publicly spotted out on a date with Richard Gere, "the world's most famous Buddhist" (as someone on The Simpsons once called him).

******************************************

Siddhartha,

He most certainly was not, nor was any of us.

I sincerely hope not. Some of the "courtesies" included in that uncalled-for little parody appeared to be quoted verbatim from things I usually make a point of saying as a form of politeness in my occasional offline emails to the Mutineers, but which I have never included in any of my posts here on SM. Since I think you're a straightforward and trustworthy guy (and because Anna has spoken very highly of you previously on SM), I'll take your word for it and assume that it was just an unfortunate coincidence.

i agree with jai singh... people should not be allowed to use different handles..and yes, there are those out there who have...(and no, i have not)..

people should not be allowed to use different handles

.....unless they make it obvious that they're the same person, eg. "Colonial Jai/Jai Singh/etc" and their handle is a reflection of the context of the subsequent post.

If there's scope for masquerading as completely different commenters across multiple threads -- and this does occasionally happen, including commenters who have behaved exactly as Abhi previously described (trolls pretending to be reasonable people) -- then it should be a no-no.

Generally I think the moderators do a good job of jumping on such behaviour (and it's completely understandable that they can't keep an eye on SM 24/7), but occasionally people have fallen through the net and continued to treat this blog as their own personal playground. However, during the last few weeks I think Abhi & Co have obviously been very proactive in cleaning this place up and attempting to get things back on track.

abhi & company...

sounds like a band ;)

yes, they have been working diligently, vigilently, and thoroughly to keep this mutiny free from trolls.

kudos to them..and a big friday bowl of garlic hummus for all of them.. (who is bringing the pita ;))

garlic hummus

breath mints for desert?

Manju, j'accuse!

I find you guilty of feeding the trolls.

Now, I know you're reacting directly to my dig in comment #81, to which I can only say that your views on the subject (here and here) merited it. Or maybe they didn't. What I have said, I have said. I wish I'd been more brutal, but it's too late to correct the past now.

Enough with this, let's get back to the real topic at hand: filthy leftist criminals and the police officers who delicately subdue them.

infantile leftists

ah Shruti, you don't know how much I love that term

:) Credit goes to Siddhartha, who has obviously read more Lenin than I.

That's what happens when you're publicly spotted out on a date with Richard Gere, "the world's most famous Buddhist" (as someone on The Simpsons once called him).

Or looking like an accomplice of your friend that's burning the Chinese flag at the Chinese embassy.

I sincerely hope not. Some of the "courtesies" included in that uncalled-for little parody appeared to be quoted verbatim from things I usually make a point of saying as a form of politeness in my occasional offline emails to the Mutineers, but which I have never included in any of my posts here on SM. Since I think you're a straightforward and trustworthy guy (and because Anna has spoken very highly of you previously on SM), I'll take your word for it and assume that it was just an unfortunate coincidence.

Jai Singh, cut to the chase. Do you believe me or do you not believe me? If you believe me, say so without all this passive-agressive nonsense. If you don't, likewise.

See, this frustrates me because it reflects the notion that regulation and justice have to be violent. This cruelty-for-cruelty, blast-his-brains-out-that'll-solve-everything attitude is so unproductive.

I am getting the same unfair reaction from you as Manju got from that Saurav guy when he was defending gays. Why don't you preach like this when one of your leftie cabal friends justifies Palestinian suicide bombings or even the train bombing in Mumbai ( Mr K is a champion at that )? And come on whom are you fooling with your moderate sounding baloney?:

but I do agree on his point that y'all need to make sure you have your facts straight before you demonstrate today.

It's very clear from your comments on this post that you have already made up your mind, facts or no facts.

As Gujudude said most of the commenters are being 'emotive'. Why not counter the points made or alluded to in Manju's, Gujudude's or my posts?

And yes Kobayashi can be witty at times but his worldview is pathetically misguided. A commenter with a similar intensity of rightist views would long have been ridiculed out of here.

Siddhartha,

If you believe me, say so without all this passive-agressive nonsense.

I don't engage in passive-aggressive behaviour, nonsensical or otherwise.

Do you believe me or do you not believe me?

I believe that, as far as you know, you are not aware of any duplicity or gameplaying regarding the aforementioned matter. I explained the reasons for this above, especially the fact that I trust Anna's opinion of people. I do not know you offline and can therefore only base my views on the limited amount of information available here on SM -- which has not led me to regard you as a dishonest or malicious person, and I'm also aware you're on good terms with BongBreaker, who I have an extremely high opinion of and whose judgement I also trust.

Dear jilted_manhood: I understand your sympathy for someone like Manju who is on the same ideological wavelength as you, but is this:

Why don't you admit it that Manju routinely demolishes your arguments?

necessary ? From what I have seen of Manju, his (her?) forensic skills are jack. He misquotes and misattributes. And far from "demolishing arguments"; if you don't get frustrated with him, don't treat him like a troll, and marshal your facts properly, the guy just shrivels (see, for instance, comments 55, 56 & 57 in "Draconian..." from 10/20).

Well, just for those who don't have a 'control' sample of a tazer hit (I posted this above, but it got screwed up), here it is again. FIVE seconds.

GujuDude, I think it's a little unfair of you to use what a cadet could take and hold everyday civillians up to the same level. i'm pretty sure that cadet could take a lot of things that would render me helpless, so I'm not quite sure that your argument in that case makes sense.

Jilted_Manhood,

Why don't you preach like this when one of your leftie cabal friends

I've agreed with many of your points on this thread (except for the one about tasering cops), but with all due respect, based on previous discussions with Shruti I don't think she's one of these extreme-left-wing types. Some other commenters who have occasionally seen fit to grace SM with their presence certainly have been, but Shruti is not. In fact, she's previously been on the receiving end of unwarranted harrassment here -- even bullying -- by exactly the kind of people you're condemning.

And yes Kobayashi can be witty at times but his worldview is pathetically misguided.

This really hurts my feelings. I mean, I thought we were all friends here. Jilted-manhood, show me one time, just one time, when I've been, as you say, "witty." Links and date, please.

"Pathetically misguided," definitely. Join the queue buddy. It's a known known. Shit, I'm in the queue myself.

But "witty"?

IMO the issue here isn't a mouthy student-- where else is mouthiness tolerated but in college-- it's the expanding use of tasers as a convenience where pain would not otherwise be inflicted. Sort of like how the availability of copy machines, or email, or text messaging, alters behavior due to convenience. After hearing this kid's inhuman shrieks, you cannot help wonder whether our law enforcement future includes cattle prods once again.

It's also fascinating how the debate is such a clear political litmus test on whether you empathize with the annoying kid being electrocuted or those with their fingers on the trigger. It's blown up at the political blogs far more than at the ethnic ones, and the YouTubes have the predictably infantile comment, 'hahahaha fry the little bitch one more time,' by those who torment animals by shoving firecrackers up their asses. The latter turns you into either serial killer or President.

At the end of the day, a college kid who left his ID at home got fried. At the gym that only gets you a pen and a clipboard.

Jai,

I trust you so I'll take that back. However I am not sure why she had to pick me when several commenters have said worse things should be done to the guilty cops. Anyways it was more rhetoric. I strongly belive that abuse of power by people in uniform is one of the worst things. I have seen it personally both in India and here in the US. And honestly I have wanted to hit back even though the confrontation never started out as violent. It's the humiliation of an unarmed person by often a bigger, armed one that gets me. A recent image that sticks is one of a an LA officer viciously kicking a little Mexican woman trying to flee after being caught stowed away on a pickup truck. I am just saying I sympathize with the militant anger against authority in such cases.

HMF You know what blanket statements like this

All the kids who became cops are those that couldn't get admitted or came from families that didn't encourage a college education.

accomplish?
Show your ignorance and incite anger unnecessarily.

You forgot one more thing it does, tell the truth.

On Pg3: As of the year 2000 only 4.6% of new police recruits, in cities of 250,000 or more, had 4 year degrees. From anecdotal data of my observation, everyone in my high school who went into this line of work did so because their families looked down on a college education, or at the very least saw little value in it.

Jilted_Manhood,

However I am not sure why she had to pick me when several commenters have said worse things should be done to the guilty cops.

I don't know, I guess she was just picking up on the "tazering cops" issue and objected to the idea of "tit-for-tat" reciprocal violence. She does have a point there, of course, although I do understand the motivations behind your rhetoric and objections (which I share) to the abuse of power by those in authority, even though we both agree that putting that rhetoric into practice would obviously be a bad idea and not exactly the most ethical thing in the world to do. Two wrongs don't make a right, and similar cliches.

Shruti does occasionally use some trendy-sounding jargon but she is definitely not one of those rabid nutjobs. As I said, she's been hassled by people here who really do fall into that category. I've found her to be a nice person and pretty fair-minded, and definitely not one of the "reactionary" types.

I believe that, as far as you know, you are not aware of any duplicity or gameplaying regarding the aforementioned matter. I explained the reasons for this above, especially the fact that I trust Anna's opinion of people. I do not know you offline and can therefore only base my views on the limited amount of information available here on SM

OK guys...in defense of Siddhartha & Jai Singh

Siddhartha as well as all the other mutineers most of whom I know personally are not the types of people to play mischief nor be disingenous and when they say something I would believe them without a doubt. They all possess integrity even if I may not agree with all their viewpoints. They are good people remember that.

Jai a lot of the drama you are referring to from the past that I am aware of and was involved with was before Siddhartha became a regular blogger so it would be unfair to him to assume he may be involved because he may not even be aware of it.

And I do agree Jai that there was some seriously multiplicity nonsense going on for a bit thought not necessarily at the encouragement of the bloggers as much as perhaps a little bit of neglect because lets get real, there are 1000s of comments a day, all the bloggers have other real jobs and maintaining a very busy blog is a lot of hard work. I do think it has changed in the past several weeks. A lot of the regular "trolls" we used to have are gone and you can definitely see discussions getting cleaned up a lot faster.

Can we get past this one issue and not allow it to taint good discussions from time to time? It is in the past, we cannot change it, lets move on please.

I do realize after being a regular commenter for a long time that the general viewpoint is left leaning on this blog. Not always in the posts but definitely in the flavor of the ensuing discussions. We cannot control that. It is what it is. I simply wish for a more civilized banter between the opposing sides and more importantly tolerance of right leaning views which doesn't seem to happen lately. Obviously all the political and necessary at that posts lend to that divide. It's bound to happen.

Unless they’re funny. It’s all good then...seems to sometimes become the rule rather than racist, abusive, illiterate, content-free or commercial comments; personal, non-issue-focused flames; intolerant or anti-secular comments; and long, obscure rants may be deleted.

It's amazing that what probably began as a fairly innocuous exchange b/w two parties at a campus library so quickly escalated into this mess.

HMF said: On Pg3: As of the year 2000 only 4.6% of new police recruits, in cities of 250,000 or more, had 4 year degrees.

That is not an accurate reading of the table. The table lists departments that required college degrees. More than 95 percent of the police departments, in cities that had a population of 250k or more, did not NEED their sworn officers to have college degrees.

Not the same thing.

I am getting the same unfair reaction from you as Manju got from that Saurav guy when he was defending gays. Why don't you preach like this when one of your leftie cabal friends justifies Palestinian suicide bombings or even the train bombing in Mumbai ( Mr K is a champion at that )?

It was my opinion on the tangential point about using violence to punish violence, not a criticism of your character or world-view. I knew there was a possibility that you were speaking figuratively to express that you do sympathize with the students, hence my acknowledgement that it might be nit-picky.

And come on whom are you fooling with your moderate sounding baloney?:

but I do agree on his point that y'all need to make sure you have your facts straight before you demonstrate today.

That was technical advice on organizing for Taz and her fellow protestors. It applies whether you're left, right, top, bottom, whatever.

It's very clear from your comments on this post that you have already made up your mind, facts or no facts.

As Gujudude said most of the commenters are being 'emotive'. Why not counter the points made or alluded to in Manju's, Gujudude's or my posts?

What difference does it make even if I have made up my mind? I'm not being emotive - I made no exclamations, no demands to bring anyone to the guillotine. Policing hegemony is something I study, so yes I have some preconceived notions about policing and what might have been going on here. I can still be sincere in my advice to get the facts straight for the sake of fairness and to be PC in the protesting (do I really need a diabolical reason for such a common sense suggestion?). If you don't believe me, then you don't take me seriously - which is fine with me - but if it's like that, then don't bother taking this conversation into circles.

What was this guy protesting against (by not showing is id) ?
Even at the start of the video (when he wasn't tasered), why was this guy shouting loudly "don't touch me" ?...and that too in a library. That's not "civil disobedience" IMO.
My guess is that he was provoking some kind of response from the police.
He was finally successful in provoking them to respond..but he couldn't have imagined the kind of response that those officers had in mind! Use of tasers in this case is going overboard...he could have been easily carried out by 4 officers.

This shite is pretty nasty .. Over-reacting and nothing else .. Calling backup was probably the most sensible thing that could have been done at that point of time .. they say that ucpd employs 60 full-time officers.. there should have been more officers around the campus ... unless, everyone was on vacation except these two sorry dudes ...

GujuDude ....
different people would react differently when tasered, as with different people getting drunk on varied # of drinks. It might not be a very good analogy but the structure and the build of a person's body is of importance here. the cadet you are talking about looks quite well built and added to the fact that he has undergone rigorous physical training as part of the pre-searing for the cadet. the guy at ucla being tasered, on the other hand, looks quite skinny.. People have died when tasered, due to cardiac arrests. Plus, the mostafa guy was tasered 5 times in quick succession .. under less than 5 minutes .. thats enough to take out a horse momentarily ...

everything else is for the jury to decide ...

but if, if the guy was truly walking out, this was totally uncalled for. more to do with "I'm da Man in here" mentality rather than anything else.. ..

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but this seems to be the third video of LAPD high-handedness during an arrest to surface in the last week link .

According to the wikipedia: 'Between September 1999 and October 2004, there were 73 cases of deaths of subjects soon after having been shocked using Tasers. ....In 8 cases, medical examiners said Tasers were a cause or a contributing factor or could not be ruled out as a cause of death....These incidents form a very small percentage of many tens of thousands of operational uses of tasers.'

Assuming around 50,000 taser events since 1999, that would be around 1 death per five thousand taser uses. I do not know what the accepted rate of fatality during drug testing is, but I doubt a drug that killed one out of every five thousand people would be allowed on the market.

Assuming around 50,000 taser events since 1999, that would be around 1 death per five thousand taser uses.

This estimate is based only on the eight cases where a medical examiner confirmed that the taser was a contributing cause.

GujjuDude,

Option 2: TWo police officers (student police aren't allowed to get physical) ...

The police officers aren't allowed to get physical you say? Using a tazer is not? What i see here is the cops using unnecessary force. Even if the student was going limp and making it harder for the cops, to tazer him? c'mon. I'm pretty sure the cops knew they were dealing with some student and not some hardened criminal. Seems like they were just very angry that he wasn't obeying them. If he did go limp, all they had to do was drag him out! Two cops can do that.

I'm quoting someone's else quotation, but it's perfect.

" I do believe Tabatabeinejad was foolish for refusing to show identification. But then again, an officer was asked for his name and badge number, and when he refused, nobody tasered him. "

-Alai Tchoi Ling Merz

JOAT,

re: post #165

Thank you for writing such a thoughtful and balanced message.

With regards to your main point: No problem -- I'll take you at your word too ;)

A belated response to an unrelated topic -- you should never have mentioned people calling you "Rupaul", because you know I'm now going to call you that at every possible opportunity.....

:)

At the end of the day, a college kid who left his ID at home got fried. At the gym that only gets you a pen and a clipboard.

I am not condoning the use of excessive force but I don't think the situations are identical... from the report it looks like he refused to show his ID. If he had left it at home, I think they may have accepted a driver's license/alternate ID as would your local gym. I'm fairly sure any gym would ask you to leave too if you walked in and refused to identify yourself. The student was uncooperative for unknown reasons.

While I agree with those who suggest that we should hold off on judgement till the evidence is in, it's going to be very difficult for the police to come up with the evidence to justify the frequency with which they used the taser on the student, regardless of what the student's crimes may have been or how resistant he was to moving. Additionally, the fact that one of the cops retaliated against a request for a badge number by threatening to taser the student is illegal.

Tabatabainejad's claim, btw, is that he thought he was being racially profiled. From today's NYT:

Yagman said his client declined to show his school ID because he thought he was being targeted for his appearance. His family is of Iranian descent.

That is not an accurate reading of the table. The table lists departments that required college degrees. More than 95 percent of the police departments, in cities that had a population of 250k or more, did not NEED their sworn officers to have college degrees.

Not the same thing.

Right, so if 95.4% of the police departments say they do not require 4 year degrees, and the applicants go, "Hey wait a minute, I need a 4 year degree"

Tabatabainejad's claim, btw, is that he thought he was being racially profiled.

I was about to point this out. A lot of people accusingly talked about him refusing to show his ID but no one seemed to consider the very obvious (in my opinion) reason why he might do so. If he didn't know about the ID check policy, then from his perspective what happened was that he was simply studying in the library when he was approached by police asking for his ID. If that happened to me, I might refuse too even though racial profiling is not exactly an issue in my case.

In the end this is a very clear case showing use of excessive force by the cops (no matter what provocation or alleged intentions on behalf of the student that you may bring up to justify the force). The cops have to be promptly reprimanded for that or it will feed discontent among the students and the general civilian population. Without an expression of public outrage in the form of protests (and blogs) the cops will be let off (there enough examples to expect that). Go figure. That said, I do appreciate the work that cops do without whom there can be no order in such a large society but every such incident takes away their credibility if left unpunished. In simplistic terms every time you support a bad cop you are doing a disservice to a good cop.

Right, so if 95.4% of the police departments say they do not require 4 year degrees, and the applicants go, "Hey wait a minute, I need a 4 year degree"

Beyond the fact that this makes no sense, you're just plain wrong. According to the BLS, 25% of police officers have college degrees.

Manju, j'accuse!
I find you guilty of feeding the trolls.

Kobayashi, Why so surprised? I've consistently despised you since you first appeared here on SM, as your own link shows and as I stated here. I feed you for the same reason I feel compelled to go into a porno store, or an art gallery. You are an Wildian provacateur with a streak of Orwellian seriousness. Such duplicitousness deserves many a backhanded insult.

If I ever saw you in person, I'd taser you...right after buying you a beer.

It looks like the case is headed into murkier waters
Tasered student claims racial profiling.

The punishment did not fit the crime, therefor it was wrong.

I jus saw this video.. Its totally hopeless... I was shocked to see this kind of incident happening in UCLA... This is totally a misuse of power.... These guys must be screwed... I dont feel that the arrest of that guy is wrong, but the way things had been handled is poor. Shame on UCLAPD...

Since when are Persians South Asians?

In the end this is a very clear case showing use of excessive force by the cops (no matter what provocation or alleged intentions on behalf of the student that you may bring up to justify the force). The cops have to be promptly reprimanded for that or it will feed discontent among the students and the general civilian population. Without an expression of public outrage in the form of protests (and blogs) the cops will be let off (there enough examples to expect that). Go figure. That said, I do appreciate the work that cops do without whom there can be no order in such a large society but every such incident takes away their credibility if left unpunished. In simplistic terms every time you support a bad cop you are doing a disservice to a good cop.

This is true. The problem is at lower levels like this such as campus police departments, county police departments at lower levels such as Sergeant and Officer, and other "rentable" cops, what you mostly have is garbage, unsuccessful people who are hungry for power. Because they are not intelligent to get well paying, normal jobs, they settle for a decent job where they have the ability to feel powerful and can take out their anger over their "failed lives" on other citizens (being a minority probably adds to the anger as well)
I'm sure people will disagree with me on this, but I am only talking about the lower levels of law enforcement I mentioned above. If someone is a detective, or doing something truly valuable to help serve/protect the community (homicide detective, anti-terrorism, anti-drug etc) then I give them the utmost respect. But being a library monitor, or a traffic cop? Garbage people doing their garbage jobs.

Beyond the fact that this makes no sense, you're just plain wrong. According to the BLS, 25% of police officers have college degrees

I never claimed that 95.6% didn't have degrees. And my point makes perfect sense, at my university, the police officers would regularly talk about "smart rich kids" that get everything "handed to them on a plate" Seriously, what do you think motivates someone to be a university cop? To serve and protect? To safeguard the nation's brightest minds?

This story is getting weirder. Now the student is saying that he didn't want to show his ID because he thought he was being racailly profiled. I'm not sure if he was aware of the Library policy or not; or if the person asking him told him that it was after 11pm and it's the rules. Or that other people were not being asked and just him; There is also no clarification as to how the confrontation went down. I don't agree with how they treated the guy after the first taser, but I'll reserve judgement until I know the full story. Too many people jumping on too many bandwagons...

The problem is at lower levels like this such as campus police departments, county police departments at lower levels such as Sergeant and Officer, and other "rentable" cops, what you mostly have is garbage, unsuccessful people who are hungry for power.

The only important point is the health of the law enforcement system. It has to remain functional and effective in spite of the bad apples. Every incident like this should be used to throw out the bad apples and improve the system to be more humane and responsive to society.

Since when are Persians South Asians?

Brotherhood of the Browns man... Of course a Persian student intentionally ramming people with an SUV is not blogworthy ;-)

What's the point in stereotyping them? Somebody has to do the job. They may not be "successful" in your terms but not necessarily hungry for power, somebody in their family might be proud of their "success" in becoming a cop. They can be decent people doing the job they can get just trying to exist. Why paint them all with the same brush? The only important point is the health of the law enforcement system. It has to remain functional and effective in spite of the bad apples. Every incident like this should be used to throw out the bad apples and improve the system to be more humane and responsive to society.

The point about the health of the law enforcement system is true, but I think the problem is inherent in a capitalist society. It seems as if at the lower levels of law enforcement (where the pay, benefits, satisfaction are less), the majority of the cops are "bad apples". While this is stereotyping, I highly believe this to be true. As HMF said, why the hell would anyone want to be a University Cop? Even if someone is highly interested in law enforcement, they would much prefer to work for a higher level of law enforcement (FBI, US Martials, Detectives etc). These lower level positions are a last option job in most cases for people who failed to make it into other, more prominent and beneficial areas of law enforcement. Thats just how it is.

Actually HMF, you did say that 95.6 percent did not have degrees. I was pointing out that your link did not backup your statements. I hate to do this but here goes:

HMF:I never claimed that 95.6% didn't have degrees.

HMF also said: On Pg3: As of the year 2000 only 4.6% of new police recruits, in cities of 250,000 or more, had 4 year degrees.

I am done.

i think this latest development (racial profiling) is quite predictable and was never too far from the surface from the beginning. true of not, it explains the student's hysteria and lack of cooperation. interstingly, issues of class have certainly bubbled up on this thread by a few commenters, HMF in particular ("HALP US HMF, WE ARE STUK HEAR IN THE LAPD"), any may explain the frustration the cops feel when patrolling campus' known for their disdain for the military and police.

The video was really disturbing, and it was difficult to get through it while hearing his screams of pain.

I've been reading and hearing that the student mentioned a medical condition. Does anybody have any information to confirm/ elucidate that ?

Actually HMF, you did say that 95.6 percent did not have degrees. I was pointing out that your link did not backup your statements. I hate to do this but here goes: HMF:I never claimed that 95.6% didn't have degrees. HMF also said: On Pg3: As of the year 2000 only 4.6% of new police recruits, in cities of 250,000 or more, had 4 year degrees.

Get it Jay? How about some honesty in your argument?

BOW got him. Jay, don't fret, you caught me out and I accept it - Maybe I am John Kerry.

Either way, anyone who disagrees with the statement that policemen disproportionately do not have college educations and that in some way adversely affects their attitudes towards policing university students is, flying in the face of common sense. Whether it be 4.6% or 25%. Maybe Manju and the other apologists can answer my previous question as to the motivation of entering the exciting world of campus policing?

Me personally, whenever I am confronted by a cop, I don't consider myself living in the United States of America, I say I live in the United states of That cop. Meaning, whatever he says you pretty much $@)(#$ing do it.

The guy involved isn't the most sympathetic plaintiff-- he sounds like a provocateur:

... [he] declined because he thought he was being singled out because of his Middle Eastern appearance... the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling... Tabatabainejad tried to "get the beating, the use of brutal force, to stop by shouting and causing people to watch..." [Link]

It's much like the guy who provoked the throwdown at a George 'Macaca' Allen rally. Of course, that doesn't change the fact of excessive use of force in either incident.

The more pain-inducing nonlethal weapons are developed, the more pain-inducing weapons will be used in situations which would have been de-escalated earlier. It's just more convenient for the cops.

may explain the frustration the cops feel when patrolling campus' known for their disdain for the military and police.

Your making big assumption here just because it's in California. If you have conducted some kind of survey of the UCLA campus I would like to see it regarding this supposed "disdain". The presumption is that most universities have students who don't care for the campus police one bit, and it doesn't matter the race or supposed bias of said campus, students are usually obxinous for one reason or another. I know my dorm caused nearly 300 false fire alarms during one year. That drove the campus security insane and they were always mad when they came out there.

..another tongue twisting last name will become familiar to Amreeka

I just saw the video. I am sickened. Taz and others who attend - please let us know what happens at the rally.

How can the dude possibly stand up after the first Taser attack, I mean doesn't that like numb you for a certain amount of time..

So you're a provocateur if you object to racial profiling? And if you try to get the police to stop torturing you? Nice.

So you're a provocateur if you object to racial profiling?

If someone does a routine ID check and you scream racial profiling, go limp, yell about the Fascist Act and generally act like an ass, then yeah. None of which justifies the frying.

Here's some more about how it would be more than difficult to stand up after the taser is used on a person

What happens to you when you are shot by a taser or stun gun? Tasers and stun guns are high-voltage, low-current stimulators that can cause involuntary muscle contractions, loss of body control, and sensations such as pain and extreme fatigue. They are used as police weapons as a person can be immobilised without the injury or death that would normally result from the use of a normal police revolver.

Both tasers and stun guns produce electrical stimuli in the form of shocks of about 50,000 volts that last for a fraction of a second. In a taser, an electrode is shot out as a dart and impacts upon the body. In a stun gun, the electrodes are fixed into the gun itself.

If taser darts are shot into a standing person's thigh at 10 inches apart and from a distance of six feet away, the leg will be locked into a flexed position and the person will be unable to continue to stand. If a stun gun is shot at a standing person's rib cage from a distance of six feet away for four to five seconds, the person will be considerably weakened and in most cases brought to their knees.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/13/the_odd_body_taser_stungun/

If someone does a routine ID check and you scream racial profiling

Did this guy know that this was a routine ID check? If he knew that this was a routine check of the ID of everyone in the library and he still thought that asking for his ID was racial profiling then he's not a provocateur, he's just insane. The more likely scenario is that he had no idea that they routinely checked everyone's ID after a certain time and so when the police approached him, he assumed that they were asking him because of his race (which, given what he knew, wasn't really a bad assumption). Starting from that position and given his apparent , it's pretty than he was less polite than it was wise to be but there's a big difference between being rude because you think someone's racially profiling you and being a provocateur.

go limp

If cops are grabbing you and acting hostile, then going limp is probably a good idea. After all, if you're just laying limp on the floor then it will be clear that you're no danger to anyone and so they won't have any reason to think that they need to hurt you...oh wait.

Did this guy know that this was a routine ID check?

Not sure about UCLA, but an ID check to enter the library, the gym, dorms, student buildings and so on has been routine at UC Berkeley for more than 12 years. This wasn't an airport, so his mention of profiling and misapplied mention of the Fascist Act strike me as very off. It seems to me he was trying to make an impromptu political statement (perfectly ok, especially in college) rather than just leaving to get his ID.

If cops are grabbing you and acting hostile, then going limp is probably a good idea.

Cooperating is safer, but you certainly shouldn't be electroshocked for going limp.

I was completely appalled to view the undignified manner in which UCLA UCPD treated student Tabatabainejad in the Powell Library Tuesday evening.

UCLA police asked Tabatabainejad to stand up while and after electrocuting him four and possibly seven times (it is a little more subjective to determine acoustically once he is moved into the stairway of the library) for five second durations as observed on the video tape (based upon his screams, the electric sound of the taser and audible reactions from the witnesses).

Officers allege that, when asked to stand, Tabatabainejad refused to comply. But, according to a Taser product description at http://www.safetyenforcement.com/stunguninfo.html, "[a shock of] over three seconds will usually completely disorient and drop an [individual] for at least several minutes and possibly for up to fifteen minutes."

It was a degrading act for officers to incapacitate this student and then ask him to stand - thus creating a reciprocal cause for their undignified behavior.

Watch the tape and you'll hear Tabatabainejad being electrocuted - again after 1 min. 11 sec. again, after 1 min. 21 sec. again, after 34 sec. again, after 15 sec. again, after 16 sec. again and finally after 10 sec. How, I ask you, could he possibly stand up?

Numerous students tried to passively intervene. You'll notice at the very end of the tape, another officer threaten a student in a white shirt with being tased if he did not leave the public area of the library.

I believe that the employment of electro-shock to gain compliance from a non-violent individual when being confronted by security is inhuman and inappropriate.

Below, please find an excerpt from a study on the use of electrical stun weapons by the British Bradford Non-Leathal Weapons Research Project (www.bradford.ac.uk/acad/nlw).

With great concern,

G. Tatum
Birmingham, AL


Excerpt:
Bradford Non-Lethal Weapons Research Project (BNLWRP)
Centre for Conflict Resolution
Department of Peace Studies
University of Bradford, UK.
www.bradford.ac.uk/acad/nlw

Electrical stun weapons: alternative to lethal force or a compliance tool?
Nick Lewer and Neil Davison
January 2006

The rationale behind the deployment of ‘non-lethal’ or ‘less-lethal’ weapons, such as the Taser, is to provide police officers with an alternative to lethal force for dangerous and life-threatening situations they face....

A report from Amnesty International in 2004 found evidence that “…far from being used to avoid lethal force, many US police agencies are deploying Tasers as a routine force option to subdue non-compliant... individuals who do not pose a serious danger to themselves or others.” In other words, the Taser has suffered from mission creep. It is not merely employed against dangerous individuals where the alternative is lethal force, but also against... people passively resisting or simply arguing with the police. In an increasing number of cases it has become a compliance tool for police officers rather than a weapon used to prevent injury or death caused by use of other means.

What is it like to be incapacitated by a Taser weapon? ...Upon impact a 50,000-volt electric shock is discharged into the victim for a period of five seconds. Whilst the barbs remain attached this discharge can be repeated multiple times by pulling the trigger again (and again). The immediate effects are debilitating. The current causes involuntary muscle contraction and extreme pain. The victim completely loses control over their body and falls to the floor until the current stops. The whole experience is both painful and degrading. So much so that in 1997 Robin Cook, the then Foreign Secretary (UK), considered electro-shock weapons, including Tasers, amongst equipment “designed primarily for torture”....

Receiving a shock from a Taser is not without its health risks... there are concerns about the increased susceptibility of those with existing heart problems.... Canadian Police highlighted two other safety concerns in a recent report. The muscle spasms caused by the Taser can impair breathing, particularly if a person receives multiple shocks, and this may also contribute to a lowering of pH in the body, a potentially life-threatening chemical imbalance. Also the electric shock does not affect everyone equally. Those with smaller body size and lower weight are more susceptible to potential adverse effects.

Secondary injuries to the head and other parts of the body have occurred since the victim falls to the ground once shocked. Often this fall will be on a hard surface such as a road or pavement, a far cry from the controlled conditions under which some police officers have volunteered to experience a Taser shock (with two officers supporting them under each arm and a safety mat on the floor). The barbs can leave small cuts and burn marks on the skin but worse injuries can result if they hit sensitive areas of the body such as the eye, mouth, neck and groin.

Amnesty International has documented 103 deaths in the United States and Canada between June 2001 and March 2005 following the use of the Taser by the police. In 17 of these cases medical examiners cited the Taser either as a contributing factor or could not rule it out. In many cases the victim received multiple shocks from the Taser. Other factors such as... a condition called ‘excited delirium’ have commonly been cited as the primary cause of death.

The Home Office and UK police forces have engaged in an in depth review of Taser weapons and participated in some public debate with respect to their deployment plans. Their conclusions are that potential adverse health effects and possibilities of abuse are outweighed by their operational utility. But we would argue that the painful and degrading effects of the Taser, its susceptibility to misuse, and the associated health risks militate against a wider deployment on our streets and could, as the US experience has shown, result in the weapon becoming a compliance tool. Of course we must support the police so that they can carry out, on our behalf, often difficult and dangerous duties, but we are concerned that such a wider deployment of the Taser will further undermine the ethos of ‘policing by consent’ and increase a perception of armed officers ‘policing by compliance’.

Dr. Nick Lewer
Director, Centre for Conflict Resolution
Mr. Neil Davison
Project Co-ordinator
Bradford Non-Lethal Weapons Research Project
Centre for Conflict Resolution
Department of Peace Studies
University of Bradford, UK

Bradford Non-Lethal Weapons Research Project (BNLWRP), January 2006.

I saw this video on someone else's blog, too, and sadly it doesn't surprise me that things have escalated to such extreme levels. My school (TCNJ) is increasingly becoming a police-state. There are random ID and backpack checks (which is fine) but they actually have pre-written tickets when they pull you over and tailgate closely when you drive around campus. My brother was pulled over because he was 10 miles over the speed limit (he was doing 35 in a 25 zone), to which he politely apologized and handed over his license and registration even before he was asked. However, the officer was incredibly rude and impolite and gave us the dirtiest looks and practically threw the ticket in our faces. We cannot dismiss them, however, because the college is situated in an increasingly dangerous neighborhood and their presence is obviously required.

This in no way compares to the police at UCLA, but I think there's a general trend in the relationships between college and the police officers that "monitor" them.

manish
i think i remember that every person who walks into the "secured" libraries must show an id. at cal they don't pick and choose who gets id'd and who doesn't.

also, i don't pick up the vibe that tabat. is a provocateur. his patriot act commentary make me feel like he is just another angry [insert your targetted social identity here] man. maybe i feel like this because his reaction to being given extra scrutiny is exactly the type of (angry) response my younger brother would have taken....

I think it is a pretty simple proposition...listen to the cops when they tell you to do something. If you want to make a point or partake in civil disobedience, then you need to accept the consequences of your actions. If you want to make a point, then be a martyr and stop crying when you get beat.

I think it is a pretty simple proposition...listen to the cops when they tell you to do something. If you want to make a point or partake in civil disobedience, then you need to accept the consequences of your actions. If you want to make a point, then be a martyr and stop crying when you get beat.

Can I taser you 6 times in 3 minutes?

That video was horrific, and even though I am shocked and appalled at the treatment of the student, I will reserve judgement until we know exactly what happen. It's damn shame that it had to involve a brown brother though.

hey if anyone is interested, LAist has some nice photos of the protest at UCLA today...

hey if anyone is interested, LAist has some nice photos of the protest at UCLA today...

Ha! Nice to see the Spartacists are still around. Talk about infantile leftism -- those mofos have been discrediting valid progressive causes and events for decades now.

Since when are Persians South Asians?

Kritic,

I believe Abhi posted this because it is relevant to everybody but especially brown folks regardless of their geographic origin. He is drawing more attention to a negative situation and hopefully it will improve as people become outraged and speak out against abuses of power and violence. If you want to get cute about this, you could say that Persians are South Asians geographically.

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/as.htm

But let's stop being silly. Why shouldn't we care about Persians being tasered, Pakistanis being beaten in NYC, the Burmese, the Tibetans, etc. etc.? Get with some love, man!

Since I have really nothing more to add, some good ol Chris Rock humor for y'all...

Ha! Nice to see the Spartacists are still around. Talk about infantile leftism -- those mofos have been discrediting valid progressive causes and events for decades now.

Yes! Yes!

My head is exploding with overjoy. You da man, you da man.

More about the Spartacists here. Did you know that there's a SYC at the University of Chicago? Talk about passive-agressive =)

Oh, that was just horrible. I could not bear the screeches of that person.

I did see the whole video(Kudos to the person who shot it! Great job!)

I could not see the initial tasering closely but I agree thay there is no reason to use the taser if the person is not physically dangerous If he is protesting non-violently, there is no reason , no reason at all that the law should act violently against him.

C'mon, Police here is known for their secular attitude and efficiency. What happened to them here?

He was asked to show ID. He refused. He was asked to leave REPEATEDLY, he refused. He ONLY began to leave when the second tier security arrived. One of the officers attempted to stop him by securing his arm probably to ask him questions like; Who are you? Why did you refuse to leave? What's in your backpack? Questions you'd definitely want to know from a guy who ONLY decided to leave once the police arrived. The same individuals here who are in an upraor about this situation being unnecessary are the very same individuals who would be railing against the officers if this individual had a gun or a bomb. All of this would be a non-issue had he simply either showed his ID or left.

He was mentally aware enough to claim "abuse of power" to the cops, and when they told him to stand up, he said "F** you." Screw the little punk. All he needed to do was what was asked off him. But no... idealistic little college pri.ck has to do what comes so instinctively to a college kid (not all of them of course): Rebel. Protest. March. Demonstrate. While those traits were noble in that they were used effectively to combat and cure such social injustice as civil rights, and war, this was nothing but a big mouth smartass who refused to follow the rules.

This is a classic case of taking on the bull and getting the horns. He had to know, even if it's in retrospect, that he was dealt a losing hand, here. And he dug his own grave. I don't like pain, and feel for anyone who suffers pain; but I can't go with a defiant student. I look at it like this: he just earned a few stripes towards rank in the real world.

Why shouldn't we care about Persians being tasered, Pakistanis being beaten in NYC,

Yes, because we know that Persian & Pakistani blogs would have 100s of sympathetic posts if an Indian or Sri-Lankan was tasered or abused...

i see job as bolly khan for this hysterical chutiya

why did he refuse, and what were those around doing...hmm American dream gone bad.

Beyond the fact that this makes no sense, you're just plain wrong. According to the BLS, 25% of police officers have college degrees.

It's not that simple, the link you quoted made no distinction between 2 year degrees, 4 year degrees, associate degrees, etc.. my statement was limited to 4 year degrees, which is what UCLA primarily offers.

Another dangerous criminal subdued with a judicious and completely neccesary use of the taser

Latest news about the incident.
Officer in Taser case identified
The UCLA police officer videotaped last week using a Taser gun on a student also shot a homeless man at a campus study hall room three years ago and was earlier recommended for dismissal in connection with an alleged assault on fraternity row, authorities said.

I recently heard about the incident and after viewing the entire video and the comments on this site and youtube; I think the student was just trying to prove a point which went wrong.
Here's a simple thing:
1) If I study at an institution AND I know that after 11 p.m., some guys might come and check for ID's AND I have a problem with that; I should probably not be there after 11 p.m.
2) If I have an ID, but I feel that they are targetting me because of my skin color; there are other ways to protest against that (I don't know what ways so don't ask me)
3) If I DO NOT have an ID, but refuse to show the (non-existent) ID to the Comm Officers; they have reasonable doubt to call in additional help.
4) Lastly, if someone was asked to leave once (without force) and then again (with force), and he chose the latter; I would be making sure that he took everything he came with.
And I don't care what color he is. If I see a suspicious person, that's all he is for me; suspicious.

Simple fact:
We ask you to leave and you dont. We get the cops and all of a sudden now you are anxious to leave?
Well that is acceptable as well, but if someone just touched your hand; and you wanna be all "get off me"; sorry dude, you lost that right when you decided to behave "smarter than others".

Regardless of what happened in the video, I think that the officers should have thought about what they were doing.
Frankly, I would not have tased him again and again; and also would not be repeating the "stand up" phrase over and over.
And the last threat to the t-shirt-clad dude, was frankly unnecessary.

All in all, it's easy for all of us to say that the police acted brutally (which they did), but that is not taking into their interpretation of what the incident could have turned into.
Tchau,
chanakya

Am curious if the student got pulled over by police while driving, for what he perceived to be no fault on his part, whether he would have refused to identify himself, claiming profiling and driven away.

i couldn't watch the whole thing . . . too painful . . maybe I am old, but this kind of %&%^& did NOT happen when I was in college (six years ago)- this country needs to get a clue and stop persecuting people whose only crime is being brown. (and therefore "suspicious") . . . .

If this student who was Tasered was "just making a point" as some people suggested- he's brave. And if he was suspicious, don't you think he would have allayed suspicions by showing some ID? If he was really trying to pull off a secret crazy plot, he'd have some fake ID. And if he was innocent- as so many of us are every day--- we're with you brother. We know that pain, that humiliation.

I got followed home by a cop the other day . . .who decided to "run my plates" for no apparent reason . . . and then started yelling at me because he didn't know "whose car it was" that I was driving. Um, not my fault you can't pronounce my long south asian name, idiot. . . . He also stated that he ran my plates "just because" he could. I pointed out that I have never had a speeding ticket, moving, or parking violation. I think he was shocked when I spoke to him in fluent American English . . . . and then I thanked him for keeping the community safe, introduced myself, shook his hand, asked his name and went into my house. He was dumbfounded. :)

Yo Vikram and Manju,

If you happen to be in NJ area, give me a holler. We'll do lunch in some Iranian or any other restaurant. :-)

anyone hear anything new/resolution in this case?