Depressing.
This sort of thing is happening w/ mind-numbing frequency.

Strange that an Australian newspaper has reported this. Is this so common-place in India that Indian media does not consider this newsworthy ? Or did I just miss it in this morning's news ?

That is an unbearably sad story. But it is amazing that Asha and her family were brave enough to stand firm in their decision to go forward in court. I hope that courage like theirs encourages others to stand up for themselves.

Shodan, the link you provided makes me want to weep. I thought this story was tragic, but what happened to that family was sickening, brutal, evil.

They'll get away with it, won't they? :(

If you search for 'Asha Katiya' on Yahoo, IBN and Indian Express seem to be India based websites to report this incident in the top 20 results. Times of India is silent as also 'The Hindu'. Don't know why.

Shocking... yet more people in India show up to publically protest the war in Iraq rather than incidents like this one.

They'll get away with it, won't they? :(

For every piece of good news that comes out of India in terms of economic progress, better healthcare and integration into a globalized world, there only needs to be one incident like this which still proves India has a long way to go in terms of developing a tolerant society, in which justice is properly served.

i am glad that this article was posted-- that young girl was so brave.

rape is a crime that i find to be as deplorable as murder. i've worked with many girls who have suffered sexual abuse and the trauma they have endured is unthinkable. i cannot help feeling that the punishment for rapists should be equally punitive as that for murderers.

if you or anyone you know has been a victim of sexual assault, there is free confidential help at 1-800-656-HOPE

or check out the website http://www.rainn.org/

thoughts and prayers go to the victim and her family. may she be at peace. may the lout who killed her be brought to justice and punished to the full extent of the law.

Stories like this are really starting to bother me. Well, they've always bothered me but now they are starting to infuriate me and I don't anger easily at all. Just a few personal reactions to the post:

1. I try to be against the death penalty, but when I read stories like this I just can't make a full-throated attack on capital punishment. This man, if he is guilty, does not deserve to live. In fact, he makes me want to temporarily suspend any ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

2. The story says the man was upper caste, but was he educated? I know we've had several discussions detailing that education is not correlated to these types of crimes, but I'm curious nonetheless.

3. Then, we arrive at that ever-present question, "What do we do?" I know Kenyandesi and Ismat would say that men need to step up, but how?

"Is this so common-place in India that Indian media does not consider this newsworthy ?"
Much of the Indian media is focused on Page 3 pabulum.... And, when newspapers do write about this sort os stuff, the reporting seems so "detached and matter-of-fact" (if that's the right phrase?) with no sense of context or empathy, that I have a hard time relating... the article could well be about a different planet or about some inanimate objects.

For all the hype about Indo-Anglian writing, spend a few weeks reading the newspapers/ magazines in India and you quickly realize that much of the Indian writing/ journalism in English is abysmal.

Even more importantly, the Indian legal system is woefully inadequate at taking care of its citizens. Partly that's because the government is trying to do too much and the wrong kind of things (that's the pragmatic libertarian in me talking ;-), but I suspect that's only a partial answer.

One of the challenges India faces is that the legal system is is incident: even a pragmatic libertarian like me

A terrible event and sadly it speaks volumes on the status of women not only in India but the subcontinent as a whole (and if we wanted to go even further, the third world).

A N N A, and all others, this is a reminder that evil does exist in the world to this day. It has not died and is not taking a break.

3. Then, we arrive at that ever-present question, "What do we do?" I know Kenyandesi and Ismat would say that men need to step up, but how?

When one views the actions of animals from the point of view of civilization, disgust is understandable but anger is not. But what would be really nice is to have a sense of gratitude -- that one did not get born into such a cultural milieu. If one is to believe that our moral compasses are determined by nurturing -- then to a large degree such actions are determined by how people are brainwashed since they are born.
The same child that abhors the death penalty and drinks soy tea lattes in the US could well be a cannibal
if brought up in a cannibalistic tribal culture.

We can throw that guy in the locker to avenge our disgust, but all the people around him are of the same ilk, would you throw the entire village in the locker? Would you scour through the many backward villages of India and throw all of them in the locker?

The problem is the feudalism and the feudal mindset has trapped a large part of the rural population in a cultural milieu that belongs to the middle ages.
We can and should ask how we should tackle this, but anger is not the right emotion.

Absolutely revolting.

On a related note, I suggest we start an email campaign. The fact that this is getting such little coverage is disturbing.

I can't even begin understand why this kind of evil, pure evil, exists!

The problem is the feudalism and the feudal mindset has trapped a large part of the rural population in a cultural milieu that belongs to the middle ages. We can and should ask how we should tackle this, but anger is not the right emotion.

But isn't anger exactly how this cultural progression takes place? It seems that the first truly effective response to this event would be universal recognition that it is not acceptable. The fact that there's even a possibility of this guy "getting away with it" should be abhorrent. Not only for the "ABCD"s or the well-educated people here, but also to the Indian government.

Maybe I'm locked in too much of "coconut" mindset, but wouldn't making this individual pay dearly send the right message? Wouldn't it advance the modern ideals India wants to project?

I feel overwhelmed when I read these things and selfishly grateful for not being born in it. What can we do from here? I can support a NGO financially but then what? What else? What more? IMO nothing is going to fix this until rural India is enabled to rise above poverty and get educated. But with corruption at some deep levels how can the status quo change?

This has been in the news, hopefully they will not get away with it. Dalit survivor names sarpanch, seeks death for attackers Khairlanji: Probe says district cops at fault

Indeed very sad, but if you notice the main people blamed by the survivor in this incident are not upper caste people but belonging to the backward class, and that's my point people are fixed by the upper caste mindset that everything is blamed on them, infact it is now increasingly becoming local village politics. In the seventies generous land distribution to all backward communities by the government has created their own power structures.In the countryside biggest landlords now belong to the so called backward classes. We need to look at the big picture rather than victimizing a particular community.I may not sound politically right but that is the bitter truth.

it's sad that even now, in a country everyone's hailing to be the next big THING [if thats possible] this happens. and im sure many more cases like this happen all the time.
i hope someday that india gets ahold of itself, and realize's whats going on :[

They'll get away with it, won't they? :(

Help may come from cynical quarters. Bad news is bad business for India Inc.

See See
The villains may not be members of so-called upper caste. But according to caste system, they are still a few stations above their victims. Same principal.

I think we need to recruit all the Super Sepia Women go over there and go all Bandit Queen on their ass!
I was fortunate/unfortunate to have worked for the Desk for Abused Women in SA and I learnt that education is not always the answer to the end of violence against women, we had villagers and doctors all with the same mindset, "Its my fault, I deserve it" and if not, the shame of the situation deterred them from doing anything about it all. Asha was a brave woman, it shames me to think she was slaughter in the land where we worship god as female. When and if they hang that bastard, I would like to spit on his grave or his face.

Same principal principle.

I try to be against the death penalty, but when I read stories like this I just can't make a full-throated attack on capital punishment. This man, if he is guilty, does not deserve to live. In fact, he makes me want to temporarily suspend any ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

The story is indeed infuriating. But here are of my favorite full-throated attacks that remain untouched by it, at least for me:
-- be the change you want to see in the world
-- an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
-- nobody is as bad as the worst thing they've ever done
-- violence begets violence until somebody chooses to break the cycle
-- life imprisonment without parole might in some ways be a harsher form of punishment in terms of both retribution and deterrence
-- when the state kills in our name it coarsens us all
-- especially when the crime reflects a broadly shared set of social values, punishment of any particular individual might very much be beside the point
-- [&c.]

Maybe the perpetrators of this crime indeed don't deserve to live. However, I'd much rather leave that judgment for a higher power than let it be determined by the ultimate and most severe government-run program. Unlike divine justice, justice rendered by humanity is necessarily imperfect and fallible. At least nine times out of ten, it won't be the perpetrators of these kinds of crimes who face the death penalty....

Maybe I'm locked in too much of "coconut" mindset, but wouldn't making this individual pay dearly send the right message? Wouldn't it advance the modern ideals India wants to project?

While it might be slow, the solution is to remove the brainwashing, not to merely throw brimstone at the people who are brainwashed -- the latter only serves to alienate and frequently even strengthen the brainwashing.

The problem is that people do not see this as a brainwashing problem at all -- you look at this man as if he has the same moral compass as you. If it is greatly desired that he and the millions of people trapped in his cultural milieu get to have the same moral compass as us; then until they do, judging them as if they already do sends the "right message" to whom?

Students of history will note that it wasn't the angry activists nor the angry lawmakers who managed to rid Northern India of the disgusting practice of Sati -- it was the slow and grinding work of social reformers.

Feudal India desperately needs social reform, and a preq. for that is to not come at it from a viewpoint of anger.

Someone mentioned that this was picked up only on Australian news. After a quick search, I found that Reuters India also ran this story and I am guessing Australian--- got it from there. The fact that it didn't run on Indian Express, Hindu or that grand pinko paper, the Telegraph is a little worrisome to me for two reasons -

1. Are they so used to it that this is not news worthy anymore?
2. Is there a conspiracy angle to this?

In defense of 1., The Indian press does a really good job of covering shit like this. Especially the commie papers because it allows them to rail on everyone and for that alone I want them to be around cos they sniff that shit out. They didn't run it. I am not saying "Conspiracy" yet. I will serve my ass up on a platter if you will be patient enough to read the next bit.

The caste angle seems conjecture since there is nothing from the article or the one before it, that says this was due to an upper caste-dalit thing. Don't get me wrong. That shit happens, and more frequently than you would expect or believe. It's just that I wish we wouldn't leap to that conclusion. If the story is genuine, then all that we know is that a Dalit woman was raped and burned by a man. That is the story! Anyone that's seen Rashomon is familiar with mis-interpretation of an actual event even by the people somewhat involved in the event. There are so many allegeds that it is hard to discern the truth. I will follow this story closely and try and get more information.

If a black woman was raped by an alleged Jewish man, would everyone automatically assume hate crime? If so, then it is a rather sorry state of affairs. I know most people don't have the time to dig in and find out the actual events as they happened and hence journalists have even more responsibility in the internet age than before. I just don't know how many of them actually have a sense of duty about it. I have given up reading main stream papers because I know they can be bought. I stick to a few independent news outlets and they have earned my trust after I did my research on them.

News is information just as much as it is mis-information. Don't believe everything you read or if you must, don't form strong opinions based on it. I wish there were an easier way.

My a$$ is dressed and ready to be served.

If a black woman was raped by an alleged Jewish man, would everyone automatically assume hate crime? If so, then it is a rather sorry state of affairs.

The rape might not have had a caste basis (although in part it probably did)...but the fact that he felt free to intimidate and ultimately gruesomely murder her, knowing he'd get away with it, definitely had a caste basis. That's where your analogy breaks down. The woman (girl, really) was in her position of utter helplessness and defenselessness BECAUSE of her status and position in society, and that's what made her such a target. Dalit boys (by and large) do not rape women from higher social stratas than themselves because they know what the repurcussions of that would be. So it has a lot to do with power and muscle (i.e. caste).

-- life imprisonment without parole might in some ways be a harsher form of punishment in terms of both retribution and deterrence

This is the #1 reason and often the only reason I am not a supporter of the the death penalty. First of all in the United States far too many tax payers $$ are spent on death row immates and I think it's an easy off to just lose your life. It's far more cruel and befitting to lock someone up for the rest of his life and let him live with himself while having no option to ever get out.

Unfortunately, cases like this in India has only one option for justice.

Its called STREET justice. I am surprised as to why there isnt a secret society that takes down such scum. I would definitely fund such a 'hundi'. Where are the snipers when we need 'em.

'Street justice' is in the hands of the powerful, not the weak...we need justice for the weak, innocent victims. That's where the State and media (should) come in. This story (and Shodan's) has outraged me more than anything has in a LONG time.

Indeed very sad, but if you notice the main people blamed by the survivor in this incident are not upper caste people but belonging to the backward class, and that's my point people are fixed by the upper caste mindset that everything is blamed on them, infact it is now increasingly becoming local village politics.

"The rape might not have had a caste basis (although in part it probably did)...but the fact that he felt free to intimidate and ultimately gruesomely murder her, knowing he'd get away with it, definitely had a caste basis. "

---and you know this...How?

I know this won't do anything for the family of Asha Katiya, but one of my desi friends suggested that perhaps I should send some money to CRY and help their efforts in India. I admit I'm not terribly familiar with CRY, but they seem like a good organization. What do the rest of you think?

I hope the bastard is given the death penalty....a pianful death penalty, if possible.
And in case he happens to beat the system, I hope the same people who fought for and obtained justice for Priyadarshani Matoo, rally once again until Asha receives the same.

p.s.imo, no amount of reservation is enough to atone for the evil the "lower castes" had to suffer at the hands of "upper caste" hindus.

p.s.imo, no amount of reservation is enough to atone for the evil the "lower castes" had to suffer at the hands of "upper caste" hindus.

There starts the tirade against upper castes. BTW no amount of reservation can lift the "lower castes" out of their suffrage, that is only a mirage.

Where are the snipers when we need 'em.

Lon Horiuchi may need an assignment to redeem himself for the Ruby Ridge fiasco. This could be it.

---and you know this...How?

Because it is obvious.

I agree that it is simplistic to break this down merely into 'upper caste' and 'lower caste'; many of the perpetrators seem to belong to fairly 'low castes' themselves; however, through whatever mechanism, their castes have become locally powerful over the past few (several?) decades, and their victims are the lowest of the low in the social hierarchy. And it IS still a result of the caste mentality fostered for centuries by 'upper caste' brahmins, rajputs, and the like, even if those latter groups may not be the main culprits today.

I feel impotent because I can't quite do anything about this. I feel guilty because I lead such a relatively luxurious life.

Its called STREET justice. I am surprised as to why there isnt a secret society that takes down such scum.

Sign me up.

For all the hype about Indo-Anglian writing, spend a few weeks reading the newspapers/ magazines in India and you quickly realize that much of the Indian writing/ journalism in English is abysmal.

Very true. I always warn my young relatives in India wanting to improve their English, to stay as far away as possible from English language newspapers.

Because it is obvious.

Amitabh,

It is a case of vast disparity of wealth, or exploitation, or feudal-like system (or all of them) deep in the villages in India. It is possible that caste made the feudal like system, however, such things would even happen if the roles were reversed. Poverty brings out exploitation and also violence.

I know someone whose mother was stabbed to death by their domestic help.

Talking of violence, my father has a knife wound near his eye, our house in India was broken-in by dozen people in the middle of the night about 7 years ago. At that time, our new house was in a isolated area (there wasn't much development around when they had built the new house). This is happened in a campus town (one of the most educated per capita town in India) where my father had retired as a dean of the local university, IIT (Roorkee).

At that time, a friend of mine told of a similar story from Chicago. I have spent little time in South Africa, India would look like fairy land compared to it.

What I am trying to say, "nothing is obvious"

"And it IS still a result of the caste mentality fostered for centuries by 'upper caste' brahmins, rajputs, and the like, even if those latter groups may not be the main culprits today. "

There's no doubt that this horrible event is initmately tied with caste warfare-however, this even is a largely a result of OBC/Dalit conflict. No amount of solely blaming the brahmins is going to solve this problem; in fact-it only adds to a misunderstanding of the issue. For example, without knowing about the conflict between OBCs and Dalits, then how else can an outsider understand why UP CM Mayawati is trying to forge an alliance with Brahmin-controlled political parties? History and evolution of caste mentality is certainly important to learn about, but when the media reports "upper caste" atrocities time and time again, the perception is that its primarily brahmins killing dalits. In fact, I doubt the vast majority of readers would even know about the shudra/dalit conflicts. Why not just call a spade a spade?

I can speak more on south India then I can on the north-and most atrocities against Dalits there are from communities like the Thevars, Nadars, Vanniyars-all of whom are viciously against the Tamil Brahmin communities. But no one ever hears about that.

Kush, I know that sometimes domestic help turns on the employer, there are murders committed by servants, and of course anyone can be at risk for criminals breaking in during the night and robbing them (or worse). My point is that in village societies in India, there is an established hierarchy (although the specifics can change over time), and you rarely see people from the lowest rungs perpetrating open assaults/rapes/murders on those who are higher up. Now, to what extent this is due to caste vs. other factors (income, education, wealth, numerical population, etc) is certainly open to debate. I think caste is a strong factor, along with the other variables.

Radha, the main thing I blame Brahmins for is creating this system and mentality in the first place; I do acknowledge that much of the current problem is between various 'lower castes', and that Brahmins and other 'high castes' have largely become irrelevant to the real hardcore hatreds and rivalries that go on these days.

Maybe the perpetrators of this crime indeed don't deserve to live. However, I'd much rather leave that judgment for a higher power than let it be determined by the ultimate and most severe government-run program. Unlike divine justice, justice rendered by humanity is necessarily imperfect and fallible. At least nine times out of ten, it won't be the perpetrators of these kinds of crimes who face the death penalty....

Pied Piper...I understand where you are coming from but telling a rape victim that a supreme power will avenge her assault or that the criminals will get their punishment thanks to karma will do absolutely nothing to stop this horrific nonsense. In fact, I doubt that any woman I know would be satisfied with such an attitude. I for one would be out for blood and I am not a violent person by any means or measures.

When a woman is raped, its not just her body that is violated. Her emotional self is mutilated too. I honestly cannot imagine a worse fate for Asha and others like her.

Do people wonder why it is so often that women of the family have to put up with gang rape etc as punishment for misdeeds (both supposed and obvious) that the males in the family have committed? Is it because it is know that the mental damage caused by rape is way worse and longer lasting then any other sentence given out to the men.

How can the men do something about this? Get themselves involved in educational and outreach efforts in rural areas and point out that rape is a cowardly and beastly act and not something to be proud of. Patriarchal societies where women are considered chattels would probably listen to a message put forth by men.

I think this requires a multi-pronged approach as has already been detailed by other commenters -- social reform + legal enforcement -- but with regards to the latter, it necessitates the same strategy as the best way to deal with "honour killings", ie. prosecute absolutely everyone complicit in the crime (including people connected to the perpetrator -- friends, family members etc -- who knew it was going to happen but didn't tell the police), to the full extent of the law, with absolutely no excuses or exceptions.

Go after 'em all. These people are psychopaths.

I think this requires a multi-pronged approach as has already been detailed by other commenters -- social reform + legal enforcement -- but with regards to the latter, it necessitates the same strategy as the best way to deal with "honour killings", ie. prosecute absolutely everyone complicit in the crime (including people connected to the perpetrator -- friends, family members etc -- who knew it was going to happen but didn't tell the police), to the full extent of the law, with absolutely no excuses or exceptions.

Exactly! The need for social reform is real, but it's no reason to ignore such blatant violations of the rule of law.

fact, I doubt the vast majority of readers would even know about the shudra/dalit conflicts. Why not just call a spade a spade?

Radha,
Let me tell you that in the North, (well atleast in Rajsthan, parts of Gujarat and MP) the highest in caste heirarchy are Rajputs, NOT brahmins. Infact Brahmins in rural situations have very little influence on much of anything.

The main perp in this story is a Rajput. So its not a OBC or Shudra on Dalit story. Its upper v/s lower caste story.

Amitabh's point was about caste mentality, it doesnt matter who is doing the violence. The caste grouping and mentality that de-humanizes and fails to see that injustice in such situations.

Being defensive about why Brahmins were called out, unfortunately shows your own caste mentality.

Finally, I hope the MSM in India picks up and stays on the story. If the Indian media stay consistantly on a story they have the power to make a difference. I am praying.

Anna,

I can provide you with one such case every weekend (via a list I co-run: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste ). Same thing over and over again. Rape. Murder. Caste. Land dispute. This one has got some coverage. There are those which never get known. What to do? Seeing how Kherlanji became a political and media spectacle after initially being ignored, seeing how the Delhi media is obsessed with getting "justice" for PLU victims of rape and murder in Delhi... I am too cynical about it all now.

Amitabh's point was about caste mentality, it doesnt matter who is doing the violence. The caste grouping and mentality that de-humanizes and fails to see that injustice in such situations.

Amitabh:

I do appreciate your stance against the caste basis, but unless you have lived in India you will not understand what it is to be a brahmin in today's society. It is a double edged sword, whether you speak up or not.

Case in point: A cop randomly stopped my 17 yr old cousin when he was driving with a valid license at 11 PM. He checked him for alcohol, asked him if was going to a brothel etc. My cuz was speechless. Then the cop asked for his caste. When my cuz didnt feel interested to answer that Q, he said, 'why do you brahmins suck up to dalits? Do you like their d**cks?' He apparently went on like this for about 45 minutes before letting him go.

I have faced such situations multiple times from all kinds of people. They bring in caste at the drop of hat and start hating - I felt that everybody hated me. I am not saying that I am victim, but I just feel that I've only 'survived'.

If you are not capable of identifying the problem, you can never find a cure.

Prasad, I appreciate your point of view, and you're right that Brahmins in some areas are probably finding the going very rough these days, with new social forces having been unleashed throughout India, and sort of a backlash occurring. The 'cure' I think (which will never fly politically) is to do away with caste-based reservations and politics (as if that's possible), and focus on socio-economic status alone when deciding educational and employment policy, regardless of caste. That's very utopian of course. Things will get a lot worse before they (hopefully) eventually get better.

Amitabh:

I think both of us are in similar boat and are looking for answers. Fighting ingrained prejudices of a billion (and growing) is an uphill task. I sure see a light at end of tunnel. Just being optimistic.

Let me tell you that in the North, (well atleast in Rajsthan, parts of Gujarat and MP) the highest in caste heirarchy are Rajputs, NOT brahmins. Infact Brahmins in rural situations have very little influence on much of anything.

Exactly! Caste structures throughout India are very different from what the Manusmriti of 100 BC may have been. Simply grouping everything as upper caste is simply not accurate-not when the castes in power come from all sorts of backgrounds depending on the region.

"The main perp in this story is a Rajput. So its not a OBC or Shudra on Dalit story. Its upper v/s lower caste story."

In this case, you're right, he is a Rajput. I apologize as I was referring to the second story that Anna posted in post #5 where the killers were not "upper caste" in the traditional sense. But even in stories where Kshatriyas/Brahmins are not the perpetrators, the killer/rapist is always identified as "upper caste."

"Amitabh's point was about caste mentality, it doesnt matter who is doing the violence." "The caste grouping and mentality that de-humanizes and fails to see that injustice in such situations." Being defensive about why Brahmins were called out, unfortunately shows your own caste mentality."

No, it actually does matter whose doing the violence. This is equally about enacting proper rule of law and strict adherence to civic law. If I am defensive about Brahmins, it is because any crime against dalits or what have you becomes a result of brahminnical power-and at this point, this is often a pretty inaccurate statement. For leftist/FOIL/YSS types, every single problem India currently faces is the result of the brahmins. Not being willing to look at what the situations are today and analyzing them is the result of blaming a "general caste mentality"

What is so wrong about trying to look at caste politics and power as they really are. Yes, let's learn about history, let's learn about Manusmriti and everything that goes along with it. But to solely hold all "upper caste" people as responsible for the problems that Dalits face today is irresponsible.

To me, the fact that you would like to hold brahmins responsible in all these cases shows how easily people often try and scapegoat whoever they can.

Oh, whether it's OBCs, Rajputs, Shudras, Brahmins, Dalits themselves - who did it is not so important as the fact that caste hierarchy made it happen. You can't blame an entire caste for it. You can blame an entire religion: this is the dark side of the Hindu religion.

#50,
Its hard out here for a "brahmin" !!!

You can blame an entire religion: this is the dark side of the Hindu religion.

Shivam Vij,

You have a Hindu name. Do you consider yourself a Hindu, or have you disavowed Hinduism because you consider it rotten to the core? OTOH, if you are not a born Hindu, I apologize for the assumption.

who did it is not so important as the fact that caste hierarchy made it happen

my comment #55 had a link to the lyrics of "Its hard out here for a pimp" ... but I screwed up the link, thats why this comment explaining that attempted joke.

what religion doesn't have a 'dark side'?

the 'dark side' of each religion is mostly a matter of corrupt people interpreting the religion to their advantage.

nowhere in hinduism does it say it is appropriate for a man to rape a 15 year old girl. nowhere does the religion state it is appropriate for a member of a 'higher' caste to assault one of a 'lower' caste and get away with it.

in addition to caste rivalries, this crime has to do with power and the access to power, money, sexism, police incompetence, etc. similar crimes happen all over south asia-- in pakistan, bangladesh, etc. they may not be tinged with caste-related issues if they don't involve hindus, but they have their own negative socio-cultural aspects.

the man who committed this heinous crime will probably buy his freedom-- it is up to the courts and government to make a true effort to curb these hateful crimes on an institutional level. the importance of empowering impoverished peoples and women in south asia will take a grass-roots effort on the part of NGOs and committed citizens.

You have a Hindu name. Do you consider yourself a Hindu, or have you disavowed Hinduism because you consider it rotten to the core? OTOH, if you are not a born Hindu, I apologize for the assumption.

desitude,
Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??

desitude,
Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??

He's a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.

desitude, Thats an offensive question. Why does one need to explain their religious background, to make an argument about Hinduism. ??

He's a public figure though, a journalist who writes and comments in MSM. I was just curious about his backstory. Sorry if it offends you.

I don't think it is an offensive question.. Infact i'd advise everyone to come out with a declaration saying I was born into a family that believes in 'X' and right now I believe in 'Y'. whare 'X' and 'Y' could be same of different set of beliefs like Hinduism/Atheism/Islam/Christianity/Spiderman stories/Flying spaghetti monster/ etc.. That gives the readers a better perspective.. For example, the writer Amitava Kumar converted to Islam for his marriage in Pakistan (still retains the Hindu name though I don't know what he claims to believe now ). That would give a better perspective on his writings.. :-)

Desitude: what do you think?

Vikram Sez:

Lon Horiuchi may need an assignment to redeem himself for the Ruby Ridge fiasco. This could be it.

In the long and illustrious line of entirely tangential digs at the Clinton administration and things associated with it, I believe you have just outdone yourself. As Jon Stewart would say (while slow hand-clapping), bravo, braaa-vo!

The last 2 days have witnessed violent incidents of rioting in Bombay and Maharashtra because a statue of Ambedkar was desecrated in Kanpur. No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.

Radha

When the media reports caste conflict in terms of the "upper caste/lower caste" dichotomy it does not create an impression that the actual violence is being perpetrated by brahmins against dalits for the reason that brahmins cannot fight because:

1. They do not have the numbers

2. They do not have the aptitude (this is more true of the south than the north)

Brahmins have created and fostered the mentality that sustains the caste system, but it is also being perpetuated by upper as well as lower castes.

Tushar,

No doubt this was the spark for the simmering anger felt by dalits since the Khairlanji incident where a dalit family was killed by upper caste villagers.

Here is a quote from an article about the case

Bhotmange alleges that sarpanch Upash Khandate and deputy sarpanch Urkanda Khurpe were involved in the killing and they should be arrested. But the incident is laced with strong caste overtones. The deputy sarpanch is a tribal, while the sarpanch is from the OBC Kalar group.

Get it? NOT upper caste!

The varnas described in the scriptures may have been written by the Brahmins-but they didn't create just thakurs, vanniyas, patels and whatever other jatis-the concept of jati was most likely something that pre-existed from pre-Aryan India. So let's be fair, anyone from ANY CASTE who has ever tried to gain power through the system at any point in history has contributed to caste mentality.

Think about it, there were so few brahmins as a percentage of the population-yet when dominant shudra castes rose to power-none of them attempted to overthrow the system.