I can’t imagine how many men I’ve just annoyed. ;)

Awesome clip. Thank you. I just looked up cricket rules and became utterly confused. Maybe another rainy day.

this has become one of the most talked about things (and watched) in cricket in the past few days. if it weren't for the ashes, it would probably be the number one topic of cricket conversation right now. there are other clips of him set to other music, plus other clips of him from other matches doing animated moves not normally seen on a cricket field. he was a state breakdancing champion, i think, and it shows! funnily enough, he was fined, not for this display, but for wearing illegal logos and giving south african batsman hashim amla a less than gentlemanly send-off (and deservedly fined for this i think). but nel really got what he deserved and the look on his speechless face is priceless! sreesanth's attitude, if it doesn't become overly obnoxious, and his talent are good things for indian cricket right now.

Anna - I have to applaud your effort.
BTW, do you know what this means - "who is a right-handed tailender"

BTW, do you know what this means - "who is a right-handed tailender"

He bats right-handed and does so towards the end?

*cringes*

Apparently, excessively lippy South African Andre Nel questioned Sreesanth’s heart/courage/skillz after Sreesanth evaded something called a bouncer.

It didnot look like a bouncer. Nel (bowling at 130kmph+) probably was thrash talking just because the right handed tailender made an attempt at a pull-shot. Sreesanth's dance was hilarious!

yeah, another in a woefully short list of mallu cricketers on the Indian national team. Like comets, rare and totally interesting.

Anna, I don't even know you except for your posts here, and still didn't think you had a cricket post in you.

oh i cant get enough of it... and the music is just perfect. Dhoom machale dhoom machale dhoom !!!

for xkcroi - dont sweat the details - in the basest terms - in baseball this is like a batter getting slung a beanball, and instead of being intimidated him retaliating with a homer.

actually i think this guy is supposed to be from the effeminate race (cf. previous thread on martial_races). bwahahahahahHAHA.. macaulay - eat my chaddi.

Sreesanth must be a Sikh (aka Martial race)

I think that attitude is his 'SPCD' :)

Sreesanth totally rocked! Anna, cant believe you came up with a cricket post - pull your socks up for this march, we got worldcup '07!

Maybe the bowler said something to him about Indian manhood size after the recent controversy and he wanted to indicate something symbolically.

Awesome video! Was surprised to see it yesterday on youtube in the "Most Viewed (Today)" list. Guess the brownz are slowly making their presence on the internet felt stronger :) 3 cheers to brown power!

Oh BTW things seem to turn around quickly in Indian cricket, just the other day they were being called incompetent after losing a 1 day series and now they are again lovable after the historic test victory.

oh this so reminds me of the movie lagaan - which i proudly saw recently to keep the sepia tinge alive in my neighborhood dvd store - Remember the shaggy guy in the blanket who comes out and the bowler says, "he looks like he's sitting on a horse".

Wooooo! I can't believe I inspired a cricket-related post on SM! From A N N A, nonetheless, whose last post inspired a lengthy discussion of lipstick and make-up techniques. (I still don't know what undertones are.) I may have a new answer for those job interview questions where they ask for your greatest achievement.

I think I've mentioned this before, but the cricket world cup is coming up soon in North America (the West Indies), so I hope this is the first of several cricket-related posts. I mean, we don't need to search for one measly desi on the French team, we will have entire teams filled with South Asians!

And great job on the cricket terms and descriptions, A N N A. I'd be more worried about the wrath of the Bollywood fans -- you've never heard Dhoom Machale?? ;-)

Though you DID forget to mention that India beat South Africa for "our" first ever test match victory on South African soil ....

ANNA = Closet Cricket fan?

Sachin? More like Sach-OUT, for a few.

Cricket: India thrashes Zimbabwe

;)

Back to the dusty archives, I go...

all this martial vs. less-martial debate is similar to the non-veg vs. veg fights that frequently break out on cricket boards, especially between fans of india and pakistan :)

we will have entire teams filled with South Asians!

Including in my team, England :)

Oh BTW things seem to turn around quickly in Indian cricket, just the other day they were being called incompetent after losing a 1 day series and now they are again lovable after the historic test victory.

The Indian cricket team is like the England football team -- pumped full of false expectation by their fans on the basis of a single World Cup victory decades ago, believing that their unmatched passion for the game gives them a moral right to win. In truth they are second best, although studded with individually world class players. With both teams this manifests itself in the swings between depression when they lose and hysterical expectation when they win -- often within one game of the other.

Way to go Anna!!!!! You have done us all proud. That was an exceptionally well written piece on cricket and the video much better than the so many others I have been the unwitting recipient of.

I've noticed this on a few threads on various forums - someone will always point out how Sreesanth has done all mallu's proud. The only other linguistic group that seems to take as much pride in the achievements of others is the Bengalis. Can we construct an elaborate theory linking this "pride in others' achievements" with communism ??

Windies have a couple of desi players from Trinidad I think - Chanderpaul and someone else.

Talking of fitting replies, This is the mother of all fitting relies.
Venkatesh Prasad answering Aamir Sohail's antics in 1996 World cup Quarter Final at Bangalore.
There is no Indian cricket fan who doesn't remember this, just as no Indian fan ever forgets Javed Miandad's last ball sixer.

chanderpaul, sarwan, darren ganga, ramdin are some of the windies players of asian descent in the current team.

That clip is hysterical.

"who is a right-handed tailender"

He bats right-handed and does so towards the end?

Great guess A N N A!!! If that was a guess. Tailenders are the dudes at the bottom of the lineup. Generally they are bowlers whose batting is generally weaker than those of players in other positions (analogous to a pitcher batting 9th in the lineup in the National League). I don't really follow cricket, but I grew up playing baseball and Pops was a spin bowler on his college team, so I felt obligated to learn a thing or two about it.

>>Talking of fitting replies, This is the mother of all fitting relies.

This might be common knowledge to many folks here, but i would like to describe it for those not familiar with this incident.
This was the quarterfinal of the world cup in 1996 and pakistan was going great guns. Pakistan was almost half way through the indian total losing just one wicket. Amir Sohail hits Prasad for a bounday( 4 runs) and gestures to him to go fetch the ball. Prasad gets him the very next ball. Pakistan lost the game from there and that was begginning of the end of Amir Sohail career as well.

Great guess A N N A!!!

Yayyyy! :) I was so worried I sounded like an idiot.

Also, a huge thank you to everyone who is being so nice to this dilettante cricket fan. :) Every girl's first time should be so pleasant. ;)

ANNA take some time off and go watch the World Cup -- a few weeks in the Carribean sunshine watching cricket sounds idyllic to me. And if you go to matches in Trinidad we can meet lots of Indian people with the best accents in the world.

>>Every girl's first time should be so pleasant. ;)
It can be, if every girl at least makes an effort to understand or talk about sports.

That was a historic win and I think Sreesanth went a lil a overboard with his dance but its good to see agression from the indian side as they havent been doin so good lately. I used to watch just cuz of Sachin and still read (as there is no live cricket in US) it cuz of him. I hope he comes out firing next test match.

and Anna you surprise me everyday...first the stunning saree and now you are a cricket fan...marry me?

Every girl's first time should be so pleasant. ;)

Nah, not a closet cricket fan. As she said, just terribly fond of boys named Sachin.

And there ain't nothin' wrong with an eight- (or seven-) year age difference. ;)

"first the stunning saree and now you are a cricket fan...marry me?"

Dang! Jeet beat me to that......exactly my sentiments!

For the cricket virgins this is my recommendation.

Cricket & Writing

sorry to go slightly off-topic, but any indian cricket fans looking for a good gift for other indian cricket fans should check out this recent book: The Illustrated History of Indian Cricket.

This is one review

Sreesanth did the equivalent of a baseball player hitting a home run in a regular season meaningless game and running the bases mouthing off "in yo' face you muthafacka" to the pitcher and opposing players or Reggie Miller grabbing his crotch after a slam dunk against the Knicks. Aggression and enthusiasm is all good to get the crowd riled up. Consistent performance is another. If this young man stays on top of his game on a regular basis and plays the fool to annoy opposing players it is all good. Else he is going to become a laughing stock and an afterthought. Play the game with respect and reverence.

But on the other hand,cricket is just like another professional sport governed by politicians and power mongers. Hope fully Sreesanth can sustain the high note and do his jiggy for years to come.

HELLO! This is worth getting excited about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJvMqRJUP6s
Dhoom machale to that babe, 435 aint nothing! If you don’t want to watch the whole thing, Australia set a very high score and smugly thought they had the game in the bag, but South Africa played one heck of a game and trashed it! Ha ha ha...I hate the Australians, so crass!
Good job Anna and that is one fine piece of meat, I mean man. Truth is that I think everyone loves the Indian cricket team a little!

I forgot to add that it was the greatest ODI ever!:)

Sreesanth did the equivalent of a baseball player ...

The point is the tailender (who happens to be a fast bowler himself) hit a six off the fast bowler.
Just shows that sledging is a double-edged sword.

Talking of fitting replies, This is the mother of all fitting relies.

Not exactly a reply a la Sreesanth-meets-Shakira mode, but another memorable cricket "riposte" was Tendulkar in Sharjah single-handedly bashing the Aussies in 2 consecutive matches with knocks of 134 and 124 (n.o.). Even though we lost the first of these matches, we needed to score a certain number of runs to qualify for the finals against the Aussies, who we then defeated due to his second century, as above. It was after these knocks that he was regarded the best batsman...maybe even since Bradman.

Still remember the TV shot of Tendulkar sitting in the stands during his innings, due to a temporary stoppage of play because of a dramatic sandstorm in the desert environs of the stadium, looking steely eyed (you could break a rock with his eyeballs!) and not even taking his helmet or gloves off, because he was so determined to get back onto the field & hit the frickin' arrogant Aussies out of the game. Truer grit and drive, was never seen before this...

CinnamonRani,

Truth is that I think everyone loves the Indian cricket team a little!

Here' another classic from Sreesanth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sPChZecDGo

I've hear that he's an avid break-dance fan.

Linky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sPChZecDGo

He's not just a fan of breakdance, but was apparently a national champion at one stage: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4785572.stm

Here' another classic from Sreesanth

Wow, a lot of the comments under that clip are disgusting. Is it just jackasses on YouTube who think "he must be gay" or is that a common insult hurled his way? It didn't help that the video was set to one of the most annoying songs of all time, "My Humps". *shudder*

Wow, a lot of the comments under that clip are disgusting. Is it just jackasses on YouTube who think "he must be gay" or is that a common insult hurled his way? It didn't help that the video was set to one of the most annoying songs of all time, "My Humps". *shudder*

I am guessing you have never seen the comments in yahoo message boards under any news about India. Good thing yahoo took it down today.

"Wow, a lot of the comments under that clip are disgusting. Is it just jackasses on YouTube who think "he must be gay" or is that a common insult hurled his way?"

unfortunately that is tame stuff compared to what used to go on on the bbc south asian cricket board, especially between pakistani and indian cricket fans (generally not even from india or pakistan but based elsewhere). the conversation and rivalry descended to the most abysmal, immature depths, several times prompting the mods to shut the board down, eventually permanently so.

ANNA,
Here is some more stuff on your boy/cricketer of choice. I like some others have gotten into it because my dad is such a fanatic. I was also in India during the '04 India/Pakistan series, which started the slight addiction.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/india/content/player/34274.html

wow, awesome ANNA.

Sreesanth is an exception in Indian Cricket, he is one of the most aggressive bowlers. He will even put Aussie bowlers to shame with his aggressive attitude.

Hahaha yesss!!!

Sreesanth is my homeboy! :) I think he's the first (or second? I'm not sure) international cricketer from Kerala and for him to do so well, *sniff* just makes me feel so proud. You know they actually named a street after him? I'll try to find it when I go this summer. MUAHAHAHA...

ANNA, I'll be the first one to admit that I'm probably obsessed with cricket too much for my own good, but I've also gotten my (American) friends to be genuinely interested in cricket and even got them to play it! They asked to!!! Anyway, Sachin rules all! Did I mention I know a guy in my neighborhood in Kerala named Sachin? We play cricket together :)

Wow, a lot of the comments under that clip are disgusting. Is it just jackasses on YouTube who think "he must be gay" or is that a common insult hurled his way? It didn't help that the video was set to one of the most annoying songs of all time, "My Humps". *shudder*

Oh, sweet, innocent A N N A. Don't you know never to look at the YouTube comments? YouTube comments collectively represent the lowest expression of humanity ever assembled. Thousands of years from now, when we destroy ourselves with plague and nuclear bombs, alien species will find remnants of YouTube comment threads and thank their strange green gods that we nuked ourselves out of existence.

by the way, let's not get our hip hop lingo mixed up shall we? Sreesanth is no b-boy. Unlike this brilliant man.

Holy mother of...

I just spent the last week at the test matches so I could quietly drink martinis and smoke cigarettes while the Paki/Windies played. At least I think they were test matches. Or something. There was vodka involved, that's all I know.

Dhoom machale

Um, this may be a silly question, but I don't know what this means.

Um, this may be a silly question, but I don't know what this means.

Hardly silly-- neither do I.

Dhoom machale

Dhoom machale? Literally 'Have a Blast'. Tagline from Bollywood heist/adventure/action movie series 'Dhoom' (Think Mission Impossible, with songs and dances, and lots of far far hotter ppl). D2 just got released in late November.

I'm sure there are clips on youtube from both Dhoom and Dhoom 2.

Oh, and the original Dhoom starred the other (half-)Mallu hotness, John Abraham, just so that ANNA knows :)

the original Dhoom starred the other (half-)Mallu hotness, John Abraham, just so that ANNA knows :)

Eh, I'd rather have Sreesanth. Bad attitude and badder hips. Yowza. ;)

Dhoom machale roughly means "paint the town red/ dazzle everyone/ bang all the way"

Literally,

Dhoom = bang
Machale = to do

Anna

Since you said you didn't know much about cricket, I thought I'll use a poem my dad used to recite to explain the game to me :)

Cricket

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go
in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.

When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those
who are not out, that is the end of the game!

A little history:
Desis have been at the receiving end from gora teams for decades.
An English captain once called Indians Dull Dogs. Desi cricket fans have been fed a steady diet of crappy performances and spineless attitude from successive teams. Things started to change w/ people like Sunil Gavaskar and Imran Khan. Truly world-class players who weren’t about to be cowed down by gora lip.

How big is this Shreesanth thing? India-Pakistan matches are treated like war w/out guns. Yet I watched the clip on Pakistan TV, w/ anchor gleefully narrating the incidence. The Asian cricket teams/fans show remarkable solidarity when pitted against goras.

Anna,
Some Malyali cricket trivia for your enjoyment.
Mumbai boy Abey Kuruvilla was the first Malyali to break nationally. He would’ve done all Malyalis and Indians proud, if the &^*$*# selectors had picked him at his peak.

P.S. gora is lazy shorthand for high & mighty attitude typical of white teams from the past. England has made remarkable progress in this regard and deserve some Desi love.

Abey Kuruvilla never played for Kerala.
The first Keralite who played for India (and Kerala in the domestic circuit) was Tinu Yohannan
Sreesanth is the second.

Thanks for all the explanations! ;-)

Abey Kuruvilla never played for Kerala.

Since you said you didn't know much about cricket, I thought I'll use a poem my dad used to recite to explain the game to me :)

Lurker Auntie, that was delightful! :D

Shodan and Brown_Fob, thanks for all the additional information. This is far more interesting than I imagined it could be. :) The Mallu hook doesn't hurt. ;)

England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa (majority white players: goras) are traditionally known for on-field aggression in cricket (read: verbal abuses etc). All through the 70s, 80s and 90s, teams from the subcontinent were routinely abused in this gentleman's game. Our players were often accussed of being meek as they never answered these verbal assaults. They always said that their bat/ball will do the talking and they behaved like perfect gentelmen (mostly). As fas as results are concerned, teams from the subcontinent did pretty well..(India won the WC in '83, runners up in 2003, Pakistan won in 92 and were runners up in 99 while Sri Lanka won in 96).

These things are gradually changing now. With India bringing in 75% of the money in world cricket, we are demanding more say in the management of the game. The Indian cricket board wants to have more say in scheduling its tours, telecast deals, sponsorships etc. The goras are having hard time to digest this fact and usually try to oppose everything that the boards from subcontinent propose.
India, Pak, Lanka and B'desh usually stick together in all crucial votes..and even get West Indies on their side. The Australians usually side with the British ...and so does new Zealand and south Africa.
In the end, it's the money that holds the power..and usually the Indian board is able to amend the "racist"
policies still followed in wordl cricket.

There have been plenty of instances where brown players have been fined for showing their displeasure to the umpires...but white players were let off without fine (or warning).

nice video.. thanks for the link..

that's just cool on many levels but in terms of the direction of the thread, think of the most proper environment you've ever been at, the most high and fancy dinner party, and then somebody comments on how indian cooking smells. and then, you not only say it smells great, you bring out the most currified chicken you've ever made, and everyone loves it, but the host who cries in their drink that no one has touched the souffle.

on top of that, what a great shot

Neil Hirani (who posted the video in the first place) offered this description:

This is the # 10 batsman Sreesanth, of India, responding to the South African Andre Nel's comment "Man, just don't swing your bat, have a heart to hit the ball", by hitting the very next ball for the maximum six runs and by showing his "heart" in front of Nel's face..... I hope this has made my clip more clear to the non-cricketing public!

Yes, it's much clearer that Nel is douchey, thanks. :)

Also clearer: the video itself, since I just swapped YouTube for Google. w00t!

STILL clearer: now I know what "hitting Nel for a six" means! :D

Brown_fob, I hear ya. That little Sreesanth dance meant so much to a lot of Indians! Some comeuppance!!!!!

I can't wait to see some of these new players with some real balls go on the next Australia tour and show those goras how to respond to sledging.

Great video :)

Here's the original Dhoom theme song, performed by Thai singer Tata Young.

my favourite indian sledge was ravi shastri's to the aussie 12th man......shastri hit the ball and stepped out of the crease to steal a run,the 12th man fielded the ball sharply and said to him,
"if you f***ing step out of the crease i will break your f***ing head".....to which shastri replied calmly,
"if you could play as well as you talk you wouldnt be the f***ing 12th man"

Okay,having got that off my chest i still dont know how to react to this guy's dance...i am all about aggression but this boy seems to be doing it all over the place....(instances from the match in question abound on the net)

this makes a nice read. :)

That was me with the curry chicken analogy. on second thought, its quite a stupid analogy, didn't mean to be patronizing. I'm making chicken today so it was in my mind.

(must remember to comment less)

That was me with the curry chicken analogy. on second thought, its quite a stupid analogy, didn't mean to be patronizing.

Awww, I liked it. :)

"first the stunning saree and now you are a cricket fan...marry me?" Dang! Jeet beat me to that......exactly my sentiments!

all you lovelorn hounds... here's a tip. somebody's birthday is coming up.

Can we have a Monty Panesar post please? This Sardar came close to being British Sports Personality of the year. Even coach Duncan Hater concedes that he's the best finger spinner in the world.

See Red Snapper's Dec. 14 post for latest Monty heroics. England lost though :(

awww, thanks Anna, well appreciated

I must have watched this video 10 times today....

The place where I least expected to see a discussion on this topic! Nice, Anna.

I almost spilled my Tea on my Cucumber Sandwich whilst watching this on TV. There was something distinctly simple and primitive about his response. This was the inner Mallu setting himself free; responding to years of condescension from Le West. I have done this dance in front of my bathroom mirror many times after whacking McGrath for consecutive, albeit imaginary, sixes. This bugger actually did it! I am beginning to admire this guy; tacky hair and all. As they say, a little talent goes a long way, if you have a bit of Mongrel in you…

Shodan

Monty is one of the best things to happen in English cricket in years, and is perhaps the only redeeming feature of England's poor Ashes show. Eight wickets in his debut Ashes test has kind of made him a national hero (he already was one -- there was a national outcry when he was not selected for the first test) and I get a buzz out of seeing millions of white Englishmen and women bigging up and having a 'keshdari' Sikh as their national hero. There are lots of profiles about him on google news, this one was one of my recent favourites:

Panesar comes out of hiding to make history

As Monty Panesar charged down the pitch to celebrate his first wicket in an Ashes match yesterday, he could not have been more lit up had he been festooned with a set of Diwali lights and plugged into the mains. Never has joy been more obviously and deservedly unconfined.

Good news today is that he's just been selected for his first One Day squad against the Aussies, which means he will most likely play in the World Cup in March. He's probably done more for Indians, especially Sikhs, in Britain, in terms of acceptance, than anyone else in the last decade or more. There have been other cricketers that have played for England of Asian background, but none of them as good as Panesar. Plus Monty seems to bring out some kind of emotional reaction amongst the English public -- people genuinely love him. He is charismatic, aggressive, child like in his love for the game, and best of all, he is a big wicket taker, and humble off the field. He is a superstar in the making.

Sreesanth's mother on Rediff

"I was very worried when he did that (dance at the Wanderers), because Nel's actions and looks are quite dangerous. So, when he called me that day, I told him not to quarrel again with Nel as he (Sreesanth) is playing in his (Nel's) country," she told rediff.com

80. Red Snapper
More Monty threadjack (last one I promise).
Monty bowling to Harbhajan @ Mohali was the first time two Sikhs faced each other in an international match.
His parents organised a special akhand path of the Guru Granth Sahib at a gurudwara in Nangal for their son’s success.
His extended family in Punjab was thrilled to see him make his debut in Punjab. They wanted India and Monty to do well. In that order.

Sachin Tendulkar was his first victim. Talk about doing well.

Here's another famous cricket taunting and a come back.

As much as some people don't like the Ozzie cricket team, you have to respect their record and Shane Warne, one of the greatest players of all time (certainly the greatest bowler ever) announced his retirement after the end of this series today.

Bishan Bedi on the news of Warne's retirement:

Former Indian spinning great Bedi said: "He's the greatest thing that has happened to spin bowling - one of the greatest things that has happened to cricket. I'm a bit surprised because I thought he would keep going. His bowling is still very impressive at 37 years old. The longevity he has enjoyed speaks volumes for his commitment. It's a very tough art, leg-spin bowling. It punishes the body. To take 700 Test wickets - it's something legitimate spin bowlers would never come close to," said Bedi, a critic of controversial Sri Lankan Muttiah Muralitharan.

monty has been picked for the odi triangular series against nz and australia, so if he proves himself in that it seems a certainty he will be in the england world cup squad.

as for warne, check out this funny tribute in the guardian.

@60:

Lets not forget KP Bhaskar or Bhaskar Pillai who played for Delhi in the late 70's , early 80's. He lived in the shadows of GR Vishwanath and never got an opportunity to play for India. Much like a brilliant bowler like PK Shivalkar who played for Mumbai during the same time and had to wait for one of the 4 famous spinners ( Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat and Chandrashekahr) to keel over so he would get a chance, which never really happened.

sorry to go slightly off-topic, but any indian cricket fans looking for a good gift for other indian cricket fans should check out this recent book: The Illustrated History of Indian Cricket.

Not only do I get makeup advice from this site, but ideas for holiday presents too! I just ordered both the Illustrated History of Indian Cricket and the Picador Book of Cricket for my husband. I used to be a cricket fan in India, but half the fun of sports is talking about them afterwards, so I had to divert my attention to baseball, having no one to discuss cricket with here. Now I am woefully ignorant about the world of cricket.

The video was awesome!

I humbly request that Sepia Mutiny does regular posts all the way through the cricket World Cup in March just as you did during Germany 2006 so we can talk and gossip and discuss the matches --- so much desi interest not only amongst the sub-continent teams but with the West Indies and England featuring brown players it has to be done.

All those who agree with me that it's a good idea say so!

All those who agree with me that it's a good idea say so!

Wholeheartedly agreed. I just found the official song on another blog.

Lots of American brownz are going; it should be a raucous, drunken, roaring good time. I am rooting in equal measure for the diasporic desis like Panesar as for the old country team.

"All those who agree with me that it's a good idea say so!"

thumbs up!

teams such as canada, kenya (and maybe even holland and scotland) also have several players/coaches of south asian descent.

I suddenly have an ache in my heart to spend March in the islands watching cricket, it sounds like it's going to be one hell of a party with all the desis invading, drinking Red Stripe in Jamaica, eating red snapper in Trinidad, where else? Barbados too --- sunshine, cold beer, cricket, fascinating cultures and all those Trini Indian girls. Now I only have to engineer an excuse to leave work and raise the money!

"All those who agree with me that it's a good idea say so!"
SO

All those who agree with me that it's a good idea say so!

So too.

Thanks guys, let's have a mutiny if they refuse! Only joking. World Cup threads will be so much fun.

Red, Risible, WGIIA?, Shodan, Kush,

No need for a meta-mutiny. I am HAPPY to try and oblige, since I think I'm the only person in the bunker who would want to write posts about rockstars named Monty or Men in Blue. As long as you continue to indulge my toddler-like comprehension of the game (hey, I make up for it in heart) and guide me down the path to cricket enlightenment, I'm your girl. :) I love what I've learned so far!

You're the best ANNA!

I am HAPPY to try and oblige, since I think I'm the only person in the bunker who would want to write posts about rockstars named Monty or Men in Blue.

Yes! You will be the best commentator ever. We don't NEED wonkish batting form analysis, we need rockstars, culture, and the global-brown feel of the game.

Yes! You will be the best commentator ever. We don't NEED wonkish batting form analysis, we need rockstars, culture, and the global-brown feel of the game.

Yeah! It will be good fun. ANNA will bring the right carnival vibe. I'm already looking forward to it.

I'm the only person in the bunker who would want to write posts about rockstars

Imran Khan was the first "rockstar" brown cricketer. In his prime he had these fantastic inswingers and there some goog vids on batsmen without a clue.

No need for a meta-mutiny. I am HAPPY to try and oblige, since I think I'm the only person in the bunker who would want to write posts about rockstars named Monty or Men in Blue. As long as you continue to indulge my toddler-like comprehension of the game (hey, I make up for it in heart) and guide me down the path to cricket enlightenment, I'm your girl. :) I love what I've learned so far!

Thanks! Or should i say nanni? on the other hand, i already waste too much time on sepia mutiny (no offence intended), and cricket threads during the World Cup may well be the final blow to my productive life. oh well, priorities, shmiorities.

No need for a meta-mutiny. I am HAPPY to try and oblige...

This is excellent news! I can't wait for SM to cover cricket - it's such a great game. You can be like the Mandira Bedi of the blogosphere. She's a very popular Indian TV cricket correspondant who also happens to be unapologetically glam (I hear. I've never actually seen her on TV).

You can be like the Mandira Bedi of the blogosphere. She's a very popular Indian TV cricket correspondant who also happens to be unapologetically glam (I hear. I've never actually seen her on TV).

she certainly is glamorous. but i fear if ANNA dresses like this whilst giving us all the World Cup cricket dish, it might be too distracting for us mere mortals.

Anna, he's all yours.

Like most men, Sreesanth digs older hotties, be gentle with him

Here's a compilation of some classic sledges for you noobs.

Shouldn't this be titled "How your Appa, Nel?" or whatever the Mallu equivalent is?

more info on Sreesanth...

"His favourite food is rice and fish curry. For breakfast he likes Kadala and Puttu (a traditional dish prepared from rice and gram). In fact, he wants Kadala and Puttu every morning; he loves it so much," his mother says.

happens to be unapologetically glam (I hear. I've never actually seen her on TV).

In one of my visits to India, I have seen her.

She is certainly a treat - Mazaa, mazaa.........

She is known for her spaghetti strap blouses, and is certainly "cricket" happy on TV.

Harsha Bhogle goes all condescending on Sreesanth in this clip. According to the Bhogle, Sreesanth, in case you didn't notice, brings a refreshing rural touch to the game. And I thought the whole Gentleman vs Players classification was a relic of an obsolete British cricket system. Harsha is an IIM-Ahmedabad grad, & back when I used to live in India in the late 90s, was ubiquitous on all media as the cricket pundit du jour. I don't see/hear/read much about him anymore, but that may have to do with the fact that watching cricket in North America is an expensive proposition...

well.. bhogale can munch a jackfruit in his ass. typical elitist shithead. we love him. today, we are all pindoos and that's a good thing.

You can be like the Mandira Bedi of the blogosphere. She's a very popular Indian TV cricket correspondant who also happens to be unapologetically glam (I hear. I've never actually seen her on TV).

Oooh, Mandira Bedi is not a bad comparison. I mean, A N N A should be offended if she pretended to be a cricket expert -- since Mandira is clearly not there for her cricket knowledge -- but since the sense is that she will blog about the culture of the game and not game analysis, Mandira Bedi is an apt comparison.

Aside -- I've not only seen Mandira Bedi on TV, I actually saw her at a party I attended in Bangalore in 2004 that featured the Aussie cricket team. Mandira kind of MCed the evening, and she was hilarious. I think she had 3-4 costume changes over the course of the evening. During a Q&A session, she asked Brett Lee (who was sat a foot away from me during dinner) about his dating life, and his response was a tongue-in-cheek "Don't you people read your newspapers? I'm apparently dating Preity Zinta." When Mandira pressed on and asked him what qualities he was attracted to in a woman, he smiled and said "I like dimples."

For all the haterade being dished out to the gora teams, I actually admire the heck out of the Aussie team. They play hard, and they are damn good. They do sledge, no question, but I think they keep it within limits and it is no different from the mild trash talk that occurs in all American sports. Plus, they are the team most responsible for transforming test cricket from a boring game into an exciting one in which most matches these days produce results. It used to be scoring 250 runs in a day was decent, now most teams regularly score in excess of 300 runs per day, and it is fair to say that this change was started by the Aussie's aggressive play. Another thing I like about the Aussies is that many of them really look forward to the challenge of touring India. In 2004, several members of the team brought their family and vacationed in Kerala after the tour. Brett Lee actually took the trouble to learn some Hindi and used it in interviews. He also learned a punjabi (I think) folk song and sang it for TV and other audiences (he plays the guitar), much to the joy of the screaming females in said audiences.

Shouldn't this be titled "How your Appa, Nel?" or whatever the Mallu equivalent is?

Hmmm. "Who's Your Appan, Nel?" Does that work better for you? "Who's Your DADDY?" is just so obnoxious. :D Besides, if I use "Appan" then I'm tempted to translate the whole thing ("Ninde Appan Arra, Panthi?") and we all know my Malayalam transliteration skills are painfully shite. ;)

According to the Bhogle, Sreesanth, in case you didn't notice, brings a refreshing rural touch to the game.

Neophyte that I am, this still irritated me. I didn't know who "Bhogle" was, but I thought he was a bit of a dick. I've got your rural right here, beeeeitch. (See? The art of trash talk! :)

There have been other cricketers that have played for England of Asian background, but none of them as good as Panesar.

Are you not counting Nasser Hussein? Hussein was England's captain, and scored over 5,000 runs for them. I think it is a wee bit early to put Monty in the same discussion. (Hussein, of course, was part of the hilarious exchange between Jess and her mom in Bend it Like Beckham. In response to her mom saying that England would never let a brown girl play for the national team, Jess says something like "Things are changing. Nasser Hussein is captain of the cricket team." To which Jess's mom replies, "But he is muslim. That is different.")

Even coach Duncan Hater concedes that he's the best finger spinner in the world.

Overhyping him much? If you accept Muralitharan as legit (I'm not sure I do) and a finger spinner, he's not only the best finger spinner in the world, he makes a serious claim to being the best bowler in the history of the game. His stats are amazing. And even if you discount Murali's controversial action or don't think of him as a finger spinner, Monty still isn't the best finger spinner in the world. Heck, he's got quite a bit to prove before he can even claim to be the best turban-ned finger spinner in the world, an honor that for now belongs to the Turbanator.

I actually admire the heck out of the Aussie team. They play hard, and they are damn good.

They're a great team. They're so great they're like a machine - they don't make mistakes, they don't fuck up. I just don't get excited seeing them wreck their opponents, ESPECIALLY when it's India :(. But when I see Tendulkar and Sehwag up there batting their little hearts away, I cheer till I go hoarse.

Are you not counting Nasser Hussein? Hussein was England's captain, and scored over 5,000 runs for them. I think it is a wee bit early to put Monty in the same discussion.

I suppose you have to live in England to understand the impact that Monty is having. Nasser Hussein was cut from different cloth. Half English, private school educated. Monty is second generation and streetwise and the whole vibe is different. Hussein wasnt an exciting player. Panesar is. And other stuff too.

"Brett Lee actually took the trouble to learn some Hindi and used it in interviews."

have you seen/heard about the asha bhonsle-brett lee collaboration on her new album? india is an advertising goldmine for non-indian cricketers.

Mandira Bedi speaks beautiful, fluent Hindi (rare among the 'posh' crowd of Mumbai), as well as English, and I THINK maybe Punjabi too...it adds to her sexiness IMHO (great pic of her by the way, WGIIA).

have you seen/heard about the asha bhonsle-brett lee collaboration on her new album?

Here it is folks...

Brett Lee v Asha Bhosle

Woah. That was weird.

That was an awesome video!!!

P.S: Doesn't the south african bowlers histronics remind you of MAMOOTY ??

Anna writes too well to be compared to Mandira Bedi, who is a total idiot not unlike a lot of people on reality shows. It's all about revenue now, so we'll have more Mandira Bedis on TV - at the cost of smart, articulate women who know the game. There are a number of great women sports writers in England - I've enjoyed reading Sue Mott on Daily Telegraph, for instance. On TV, you have Mary Carillo (who I met in Melbourne airport last year!), Pam Shriver and Martina (of course, they're all former players so they have an advantage). As a cricket fan, I hate Mandira from my guts. But more than that, she's an insult to our intelligence.

Woah. That was weird.

Ende Ammaye kettiyavan, of course. Trick question or what?

Guess I was too serious in that previous post!

Anyway, more power to Sreesanth. That test match win was completely unexpected and the way it was achieved made it all the more special. I hope they win the series too - it's a tough ask, but I'd like Graeme Smith's face if we pull it off ;)

And I agree with the comments about Harsha's condescending tone. I had the same reaction the first time I saw the clip. Rural touch my ass.

My 2 cents on the Sreesanth issue, sledging and Harsha Bhogle

Andre Nel deserved what he got. Andre Nel is that type of bowler that sledges regardless. He sledges, when his team's going great, and sledges when his team is staring down the barrel of defeat. During that test match, South Africa was staring down the barrel, and Nel goes off shooting his mouth. The South African team did a similar thing on their 2005-2006 tour to Australia, with Greame Smith, Andre Nel, Mark Boucher et.al, shooting off their mouth. The Aussies, play aggressive, and take great pride in exposing shallow talk, which they did, with South Africa. Back to the point, GO SREESANTH!!!

On sledging, there's a fine line between competition, and then making a fool out of yourself. I have been a victim of sledging, but nothing of the racial, or personal nature. I was the last man in, and after playing and missing across the line of the ball, 1st slip said something like, "in cricket, to get runs, you have to hit the ball mate". The next delivery, I went hard at it, got a thick outside edge, and went straight to 1st slip. I'm not sure if you call it a sledge but it worked. Steve Waugh tried it with brilliant results on his home turf, but then failed miserably on the Australia's tour of India in 2000-2001 when it backfired on him. IMHO Sledging is no substitute for competition, and those who think it is, live in a fool's paradise (does Greame Smith and Andre Nel visit this blog?)

Harsha Bhogle is one of the finest cricket commentators in the circuit, certainly the BEST (IMO) in India. While Sanjay Manjrekar comes close, I reckon Harsha occupies a very exalted position. That being said, it was rather dissappointing for him to have said what he did say, and I do not condone his statements. One other reason Tipu in #109 may not have watched Harsha Bhogle lately, may also do with the fact that ESPN-Star hasn't won cricket rights, as regularly as they did in previous years. Now Ten Sports, Nimbus, Zee Sports have all jumped into the fray, although, given my experience of television viewing, ESPN-Star is the second best in cricket broadcasting (coming second to Channel 9's Wide World of Sport cricket commentary team)

Anna, I see you updated the title :-)

Woah. That was weird.

Care to elaborate?

Oh nothing. I think my own reaction was what weirded me out. I thought it was really cute, but also really awkward (and I'm not just talking about the horrible music). And then I figured I was being hyperanalytical. Everything IS political, but we don't always need to politicize everything.

113

Even coach Duncan Hater concedes that he's the best finger spinner in the world.
Overhyping him much? If you accept Muralitharan as legit (I'm not sure I do) and a finger spinner, ...

DTK,
It’s not my opinion. The hype strangely comes from the guy who kept him out of better part of Ashes (hence the hater tag).

Re: Finger Spin
Monty is an orthodox left-arm spinner. His craft comes mainly from his extra long fingers. Murali’s spin depends on fingers + wrist + freakish bend of his arm. Generally offies and leggies (to some extent) can’t just depend on fingers. Wrist work is important as well.

Currently most of the lefties are part-timers (Jayasurya etc.) or barely adequate (Murali Kartik, Asley Giles etc.). The dearth of world-class left-arm spinners makes him the best finger spinner by default. To be in Bedi’s league Monty needs to prove himself on all kinds of tracks and against all teams. The chances are good as he did fairly well against India and Pakistan.
It’s remarkable because even the great Shane Warne got his ass handed to him by Indians on regular basis. (Shastri in Warne’s debut match. Azaruddin, Siddhu, Tendulkar etc. later on).

Harsha Bhogle is so pathetic !!! Rural my ass!!! Sreesanth did what competitive sportsmen do, everywhere in the world, no matter what sport.
Harsh Bhogale looks like he cant even lift a cricket bat. WTF does he know about playing at the international level?? How the fuck is he a pundit?? The only thing he seems to know is to speak English in effeminate way. One can be a pundit of a sport after mastering the sport, not just by being a dick !!!! WTF....

Bravo Sreesanth BTW!!!

RC (#129), to be fair, Harsha does know quite a bit about cricket. He has played at the University level in Osmania, which requires you to be fairly good. Please keep in mind that he is not an expert commentator, he is usually the host. He said something without much consideration in this case, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is very good at what he does and is usually quite balanced.

I don't think Harsha Bhogle was being condescending at all. It was simply an image (guy driving a horse or a bullock-cart) repeated by countless movies and TV shows in India covering rural life. Bhogle looked like he enjoyed it immensely.

Anna, I see you updated the title :-)

Ishtam antho? :D

I like the new title; there is something refreshingly rural about it;)

Anna,

The changed title adds the icing on the delicious cake of a post. However, your sporadic attempts to communicate in Malayalam make me wince :-)

Ishtam antho? :D

"Did you like it?" translates to "Ishtam aayo?" in Malayalam.

Cheers!

DM

Hi DM,
About your comment 134, I think that depending on where you are in Kerala, it can be "aayo" or "anno" where the "nn" is pronounced as in "Panni" (Mallu for Pig) and not as in "Anna". I don't think there is an English equivalent for that sound and perhaps Anna was trying to create one closest to it?
If Mohanlal liked it, he would say: Ishtamaayi,(pause) othiri, othiri ishtamaayi.

Peace

Hi DM, About your comment 134, I think that depending on where you are in Kerala, it can be "aayo" or "anno" where the "nn" is pronounced as in "Panni" (Mallu for Pig) and not as in "Anna". I don't think there is an English equivalent for that sound and perhaps Anna was trying to create one closest to it? If Mohanlal liked it, he would say: Ishtamaayi,(pause) othiri, othiri ishtamaayi.

Peace

have you seen/heard about the asha bhonsle-brett lee collaboration on her new album? india is an advertising goldmine for non-indian cricketers.

Yup, just saw the video on MTV India. Pretty cool. Brett sings most of it in English, except for the ending.
Here it is...

Anna, nyaan ishtam.
*** excuse my leemeeded Mallu nolledge :-)

Anna,

Totally love the new title, amy I suggest a newer one which can really nail it?:

" Ninte Thantha Aaru, Nel?"

This is such a refreshing clip to watch. Indian sportsmen are not known for ballsy displays like these. Sledging hasnt ever been our thing, besides we ve hardly ever had a genuine pace bowler. Sreesanth has the talent and the character to be a good fast bowler.
Sledging is a very important tool in a pace bowlers armor.
McGrath is a skilled sledger.
Nel is a bastard.
Wasim Akram - you dont need trash talk when you are the best bowler in the world.
Shoiab is a doping chucking sledger.

Welcome Sreesanth to the league of genuine pace bowlers.

Totally love the new title, amy I suggest a newer one which can really nail it?:

" Ninte Thantha Aaru, Nel?"

Before its current incarnation, it was actually "Ninde Thantha Aara, Panthi?", so I appreciate the support of my wicked proclivities. ;)

The changed title adds the icing on the delicious cake of a post. However, your sporadic attempts to communicate in Malayalam make me wince :-)

Ishtam antho? :D

"Did you like it?" translates to "Ishtam aayo?" in Malayalam.

Everyone who understands Malayalam knew what she meant. You should be happy she's using Malayalam instead of letting it make you wince. That's why I rarely speak Malayalam or Telugu...I can't bear it when people are snarky about my grammar or pronunciation. My grasp of Malayalam is poor enough that I have no idea if you or UberMetroMallu is right but language, like culture, is fluid...correct if you will, but bear in mind that you might not have the final answer :)

Before its current incarnation, it was actually "Ninde Thantha Aara, Panthi?", so I appreciate the support of my wicked proclivities. ;)

What's a "Panthi"? Did you mean "Patti" or "Panni" (dog or pig)?

That's why I rarely speak Malayalam or Telugu...I can't bear it when people are snarky about my grammar or pronunciation.

Thank you so much for this...I can't bear it either. I felt so bad when I read that I made someone wince. I was born here and stopped speaking it when I was 3. "At least I'm trying," buys me a surprisingly tiny amount of patience. :(

What's a "Panthi"? Did you mean "Patti" or "Panni" (dog or pig)?

Pig. Maybe it's the double "nn" in my name, but I can't bring myself to write "panni" when it sounds (sort of...UberMetroMallu is right, there's no equivalent that I know of, at least) like "panthi". I know. You're probably shrinking involuntarily, as if you were in pain or distress. :)

I don't dare write much in transliterated Punjabi on this site b/c I'm similarly discouraged. For that reason I'm really defensive of people like ANNA who are brave enough to put their best effort out there. Snarking like this just makes the site poorer overall. If you don't want to read our earnest efforts, then skip a post, don't whinge -- it's tacky.

Thank you so much for this...I can't bear it either. I felt so bad when I read that I made someone wince. I was born here and stopped speaking it when I was 3. "At least I'm trying," buys me a surprisingly tiny amount of patience. :(

Personally, I think your use of Malayalam is a nice touch. It's very reminiscent, for me at least, of English-speaking desi families who throw in all kinds of non-English words and expressions in everyday conversation. It might sound forced to someone who didn't speak predominantly English at home, but I think it makes your writing more personal than if you just wrote in English.

Yeah this seems to be a common attitude. I get the same when I speak Hindi with some pompous Uncles --- I used to get stressed but now I spend time being rude back to them especially over their English. Very lame, or as they say in French, c'est tres lame.

You're probably shrinking involuntarily, as if you were in pain or distress

Nope, I am good, blissfully ignorant........d'oh!!

Anna,

Good that you are trying out some malayalam. Good for you! But I have to admit that I smirk when ethnic people who are settled outside show off their ignorance of their original language. Yeah, it does come off as a bit of showing off! But hell, maybe i am being too hard on such a lovely lady! Very Good Post! Kallaki!

Desishiksha +1

DM, No one is ever going to get writing one language in another (writing Malayalam in Emglish), Instead of finding fault, I think we should appreciate someone spreading some knowledge.

But I have to admit that I smirk when ethnic people who are settled outside show off their ignorance of their original language

Why? I don't understand this. If they make mistakes, why sneer? I just don't get this attitude. It's very smug and pompous.

105:
Here are a few others.

Ado Santdosh, Sugamo ?

But I have to admit that I smirk when ethnic people who are settled outside show off their ignorance of their original language

I think this attitude shows a poor understanding of the nature of language. It changes both with time and place. This isn't true just of people who are "settled outside", but people within the subcontinent too. For example, my grandmother speaks a very pure classical Telugu that most people don't speak. Her husband and kids and most of the people she interacts with don't speak that form of Telugu, but she doesn't pick on them for their poor choice of words or less than perfect grammar. Or Hindi speakers from UP make fun of Hyderabadis for their "bad" Hindi, but I love Hyderabad Hindi--it reminds me of home.

It also makes me sad to think that if this is the prevalent attitude, my future kids won't feel a sense of inheritance of their language. I want them to feel a connection with Malayalam and Telugu even if they can't speak it well, but if they are ridiculed for any attempt to use either language, they won't have that.

I grew up in India and I'm not fluent in either my "mother tongue" or "father tongue" because we spoke English at home. So my "ignorance" doesn't stem from being "settled outside" but from being mixed in a very Indian way. Most of us who aren't fluent in a subcontinental language (and there are lots of Indians who fall into this category without having ever left India) wish we spoke one better.

But I have to admit that I smirk when ethnic people who are settled outside show off their ignorance of their original language. Yeah, it does come off as a bit of showing off!

It's amazing how her enthusiasm for using some Malayalam is undamped in the face of repeated criticism like this. It's one thing to nitpick the use of the words (a good thing, IMO and fun for all) and totally another to come up with this kind of personal snark.

If she were showing off, I'd imagine she would be seeking to impress with her Mallu. Do you really think that?

I don't dare write much in transliterated Punjabi on this site b/c I'm similarly discouraged.

You should be happy she's using Malayalam instead of letting it make you wince. That's why I rarely speak Malayalam or Telugu...I can't bear it when people are snarky about my grammar or pronunciation.

desishiksa, you have one Mallu and one Telugu parent?

Remember the word Kundi ?

>> Sreesanth\'s mother on Rediff

>> \"I was very worried when he did that (dance at the Wanderers), because Nel\'s actions and looks are quite dangerous. So, when he called me that day, I told him not to quarrel again with Nel as he (Sreesanth) is playing in his (Nel\'s) country,\" she told rediff.com

Trust an Indian mother to sissify her son.

desishiksa, you have one Mallu and one Telugu parent?

yes... mom, Mallu + dad, Telugu=new clothes for Ugadi and Vishu, twice in one month! :)

a

yes... mom, Mallu + dad, Telugu=new clothes for Ugadi and Vishu, twice in one month! :)

The kids are going to be butt naked on these two festivals,

Honest comments are appreciated, but this is too honest. But thinking about my future, I doubt if my kids will have new clothes, Now that I am not longer a kid, my parents think that a Veshti (Dothi for all you noobs and feel free to correct my spelling) is good enough for me. Damn, I miss being a kid.

ANNA, I think it's a great title and I wouldn't worry about quibbles in spelling... having said that, I think "achayan" is the normal transliteration, or you could use "achain". "Achan" is used for the mallu word for priest... but of course "appan" is even better because it "who's your daddy" and not "who's your father".

I think trans-literation of Indian languages is going to be a huge phenomenon: ASCII and the qwerty keyboard seem to be unbeatable... and yes it will have to evolve by trial and error, so keep on postin'!

Anyone trying to get out of his/her linguistic comfort-zone should be encouraged, not dissed. It doesn't even have to be their ancestral language. My cousin's French husband has a doctorate in 16th century Marathi literature. He was encouraged every step of the way. Snark has more to do with pettiness than true love of language.

Good stuff! Note Sreesanth's perfect timing of his air hump as the offending, and now humiliated, south african bowler passed him.

The award for most memorable retaliation to sledging in cricket history has got to go to the West Indian great Viv Richards. He had swung and missed at a couple or so balls, whereupon the english bowler taunted him: "Its red and round and this big, in case you didnt know" (or words to that effect). The very next ball Viv hit one of the hugest sixes ever that cleared the stadium and then walked up to the stunned english bowler pointing in the direction the ball had flown out of the stadium and told him: "Well you know what it looks like, now go and find it!".

Classy and classic.

I think trans-literation of Indian languages is going to be a huge phenomenon:

http://www.quillpad.com/hindi/ Try this out, people. A friend of mine developed it.
They have 12 or so other Indian languages too. Seems to work very well, although it is Windows specific, I think. On a Mac, it's working great with Safari for me, not so much with Firefox.

Dunno, The Real McCaca... I've heard "Achan" used as 'dad' and 'priest'. Perhaps it's the equivalent of 'Father' which works both ways as well.
Nice post, Anna!

I'm sortova Mallu (both my parents are).

Kurma, we had this debate before, and I hesitate to bring it up again, but if both your parents are Mallu, HOW CAN YOU NOT BE MALLU? Where does the 'sortova Mallu' come from? Granted, you may not be at all versed in Malayalee culture or language, you may never have even visited Kerala, but you're still Mallu...it's an ethnicity,a heritage, a background, not simply a cultural label. You can't opt out of it, even if you deliberately choose to disregard it. That's my opinion, anyway.

amitabh - not my battle but i couldnt but help pitch in - does the following sound familiar.

you cant be american because...

if both your parents are Indian, HOW CAN YOU NOT BE Indian? Where does the 'sortova Indian' come from? Granted, you may not be at all versed in Indian culture or language, you may never have even visited India, but you're still Indian...it's an ethnicity,a heritage, a background, not simply a cultural label. You can't opt out of it, even if you deliberately choose to disregard it.

even though you directed your comment at kurma i felt compelled to jump. by stretch i could be accused of the same and so speak for myself. lest someone should bring up the obvious,.. i gravitate to this forum because in people like amardeep and kurma i see likeminded folks who are comfortable in their own selves but are equally comfortable melding into the new and the different because the desire to do so is as natural as the need to preserve one's heritage. so the affinity to others on this forum is in the shared temperament rather than a history or cultural roots or even color.

Dunno, The Real McCaca... I've heard "Achan" used as 'dad' and 'priest'.

My Malayalee Hindu best friend calls his dad "Achan". My mom calls our priest "Achan". I was told that Hindu kids say that while Christian kids say "Appan". Not that I'm an expert, by any means. :D

Neophyte that I am, this still irritated me.

In my opinion the irritation at Harsha's comment is due to the differences between colloquial Indian English and English. For example the term "agricultural shot" is bandied about commonly whenever tailenders are hitting the ball. This shot has more power than technique in negotiating the bowler. Also, another explanation could be due to Sreesanth's dance-action being very similar to the action of bullock cart jockeys in Tamil Nadu & Kerala. Hence, the rural nature.
Anyway, Harsha Bhogle is an excellent commentator. He does not just know the game but is very insightful. Listen to his commentary if ever you get a chance.

hairy_d, I didn't say that he can't be Mallu and SOMETHING ELSE too...things don't have to be mutually exclusive...and an Indian kid in the US is Indian (whether he likes it or not) AND American at the same time. Is your point that a child of two Mallu parents can somehow be NOT Mallu?

amitabh - your question is best answered by kurma. this response is my conversation with you and i speak for myself. my parents are both punjabi. i can understand the language, eat the food, wear the clothes and yes... drop me in punjab and i will fit right in. ... but i am so much more than that.. and i am uncomfortable with the baggage of a descriptor - because that's what it is - i just dont like being binned. it might be kurma's game as well. it might not. i just felt i had to reply.

here is a floral excerpt from rushdie's east-west short stories. it might be relevant.

'I...have ropes around my neck, I have them to this day, pulling me this way and that, East and West, the nooses tightening, commanding, choose, choose. I buck, I snort, I whinny, I rear, I kick. Ropes, I do not choose between you. Lassoes, lariats, I choose neither of you, and both. Do you hear? I refuse to choose'

this emotion is not just a sepiate angst. there are others who feel the same.

amitabh - your question is best answered by kurma. this response is my conversation with you and i speak for myself. my parents are both punjabi. i can understand the language, eat the food, wear the clothes and yes... drop me in punjab and i will fit right in. ... but i am so much more than that.. and i am uncomfortable with the baggage of a descriptor - because that's what it is - i just dont like being binned. it might be kurma's game as well. it might not. i just felt i had to reply.

I would humbly submit that you are still Punjabi, but I don't think that label negates the other multi-faceted dimensions to your identity, nor the impact and influences that your varied life experiences have given you. But I guess I see your point...maybe compared to people born/raised/still resident in Punjab, who have not experienced what you have, and for whom their natal culture and identity is by far the strongest influence in their lives, you feel 'sortova Punjabi'. The thing about the humanities (which is what this discussion would loosely fall under) is that there's no right or wrong answer usually, it's largely the realm of opinion, which is why I qualified my statement by saying that it was merely my opinion.

i gravitate to this forum because in people like amardeep and kurma i see likeminded folks who are comfortable in their own selves but are equally comfortable melding into the new and the different because the desire to do so is as natural as the need to preserve one's heritage. so the affinity to others on this forum is in the shared temperament rather than a history or cultural roots or even color.

Beautifully put. I come here for the same reasons.

Hi, guys. I started typing and then had to run out for an hour and a half and come back to find hairy_d's replies that sound as if I'd written them myself. It's like he were totally in my mind or something. Amazing. I've deleted some parts of my reply so as not to repeat anything (the Indian vs. American example, for instance). Plus he added that Rushdie quote (I don't know it) which was just perfect.

Amitabh, perhaps I can explain a little. I grew up in Tamil Nadu where I lived for 18 years. Also spent a few years in Andhra Pradesh. Never did I live in Kerala except for annual visits to the relatives. For a long time, my friends were almost all Tamil and my relatives were, of course, all Mallu. We speak only Malayalam at home and I'm fluent in the language besides reading and writing it. But the reading and writing was no gift (heritage) from my parents. I took the efforts to learn and practice it myself when I was in high school, although they were happy to help when I asked for help. So, that was a choice, an academic interest. I'm very familiar with Kerala culture and to an external observer, I would not stand out at any Mallu occasion. However, that's not how I feel on the inside. In my thinking, I'm no mallu and have real disagreements with the mallu cultural axioms (at least those of my parents' village/town).

By contrast, in Tamil Nadu, I'm very comfortable culturally. I speak Tamil as well as ANNA or you might speak English. It was in the air I breathed. I watched Tamil movies and generally shouted and cursed in Tamil while playing with my friends. My parents had to constantly warn me not to use bad language in Tamil. They never had to do this with Malayalam 'coz I never cursed in Malayalam. Who would understand if I cursed in Malayalam, anyway? I learned to read Tamil to check out the stuff that the other adolescents were secretly passing around in class, if you get my drift :-). If you woke me up in the middle of the night, it would be Tamil that I'd wake up muttering. By listening to a Mallu speak, I would only know whether they are from North, central or South Kerala, whereas I can listen to a Tamilian and name the exact city or region they are from. How can I do justice to the Tamilian in me if I call myself a Mallu?

it's an ethnicity,a heritage, a background, not simply a cultural label.

This doesn't mean that I'm automatically treating all influences equally and failing to recognize my mother culture. There are other influences. While I lived in AP, most of my friends were Northies and we spoke only Hindi (and my Telugu suffered instead). That and 14 years of formal education in Hindi meant that I can speak Hindi like a native speaker. But I don't feel an organic connection to Hindi culture and would never pretend to have one. I consider myself firmly to be a Southie. Even though I interacted closely with a lot of Telugus, my Telugu is quite accented and I can't read or write it (because of the Hindi interference during that time). So, I do not treat these languages the same as Malayalam. Malayalam does occupy a special place in relation to these languages. But Tamil trumps it given the organic manner in which I learned to speak, write and read (what I mentioned in the last comment was a joke, that wasn't the main reason - everything was written in Tamil) it.

You can't opt out of it, even if you deliberately choose to disregard it.

I want to be clear that I am not ashamed in any way of Malluness. I just don't feel like succumbing to the imposed labelling. To pick an example (sorry Razib) - Is Razib a Muslim? No. Does that mean he's ashamed of his Muslim heritage? I don't think so. However, unless he insists that he is an atheist, people will always ignore the fact that he's an atheist and consider him a Muslim.

ANNA,

My Malayalee Hindu best friend calls his dad "Achan". My mom calls our priest "Achan". I was told that Hindu kids say that while Christian kids say "Appan".

Achhan

Nowadays, most people want their kids to call them Pappa or Daddy. So may I recommend the term panjasaara pappa for 'sugar daddy'? :-)

DM on December 22, 2006 03:36 AM · Direct link Anna,

The changed title adds the icing on the delicious cake of a post. However, your sporadic attempts to communicate in Malayalam make me wince :-)

Thank you so much for this...I can't bear it either. I felt so bad when I read that I made someone wince. I was born here and stopped speaking it when I was 3. "At least I'm trying," buys me a surprisingly tiny amount of patience. :(

Anna chechi, I did not want to make you feel bad. I thought 'wince' was an obvious exaggeration, and that comment was meant to be taken light-heartedly. I'm proud of your spirit. Keep blogging.

Anna you should replace Achan with 'Thantha'?

Anna you should replace Achan with 'Thantha'?

No, it should be "Appachan" :D

I think this attitude shows a poor understanding of the nature of language. It changes both with time and place. This isn't true just of people who are "settled outside", but people within the subcontinent too.
I admit that i have much to learn about languages and you are right that it changes with time. Okay, I guess it didnt come out that well. By smirk, I didnt mean in the sense of ridicule. The reason I smirk is that I think that people who try to speak language which was initially their mother tounge but who have grown up speaking english seem to have a condescending attitude. (And here I am claiming this only on the basis of limited cases related to people of indian origin) And if they have that, then I smirk cos they are just fooling themselves.
Without judging Anna, who may or may not have tried to learn to speak malayalam to the best of her ability, many people seem to enjoy speaking it that way or showing off their ignorance of their original language.
Just my two penny worth, and yes daya kar deta hoon! Won't preach any more on this issue!

Kurma,

Thank you for your great response...I do see all your points, and I would never argue that Tamil culture and identity have not played a major, if not THE major role in creating who you are. I can see why you'd feel more Tamil than Mallu. And obviously you've kept yourself open to all sorts of influences (Telugu, Hindi, Western) as well, which is a good trait to have. And even with all that you've retained a strong sense of your Mallu identity and culture...so actually I feel sorta humbled and not really in any kind of position to try and dictate identity to you. All I can say is that IN GENERAL, we all have an inherited identity, which, whether we nurture it or not, is part of us on some level...but again, I agree with everything you wrote. Thanks again.

Oh, and I would still say that as the child of two Mallus, you're Mallu! (Tongue in cheek).

I’m a total Cricket virgin...

Amitabh, I do understand where you are coming from.

Oh, and I would still say that as the child of two Mallus, you're Mallu! (Tongue in cheek).

I choose neither of you, and both.

I'm sortova Mallu (both my parents are).

Kurma, I didn't bat an eyelid when I read that comment. I envisioned a situation exactly like you described, or that you grew up in the US around Indians of other cultures. There are a lot of people who are "sortovas" (sounds like a South Indian dynasty...the Cholas, the Pallavas, the Sortovas :) ) Obviously my case is different because I am half of two things, but I grew up in Hyderabad and there are lots of people from different regions of the country who have lived there for several generations, consider themselves primarily Hyderabadis,and only give secondary importance to their regional ethnicity. There are a lot of Mallus who consider themselves equally Tamilian. I didn't think you were denying your Mallu heritage since you said you were "sortova" one, not that you were't one.

Now that you know the story, would you say that I am more Mallu than Tamil?

I'd say that you, like many people, are many things. Sort of one, sort of another.

mileu,

I've heard this from a couple of other people who speak Malayalam very, very fluently. I grew up outside Kerala too, and I must say I hesitate to speak the language in front of such people for that very same reason - I don't want to be smirked at. Perhaps I should try anyway, but then someone might misunderstand my attempts for showing off my lack of knowledge ;)

Well, we do know that Sreesanth has bowled at least one maiden over :)

The reason I smirk is that I think that people who try to speak language which was initially their mother tounge but who have grown up speaking english seem to have a condescending attitude.

Do.not.go.there. Have heard enough of that on SM already, from all possible sides of that issue.

For any linguistics geeks, minor semantic/pragmatic quibble on the title: as it stands, the sense of the title would be, "Who is your father, Nel?" Imagine a number of men standing before Nel, kind of like in a line-up. These Malayalam words would be uttered if someone is asking Nel to pick out his father.

The word order that would come closest to "Who's your daddy, (biyotch)?" (if you think about it, there's an implicit "I am!" inserted after) would be, "Aareda ninde achchan, Nel?"

The "-eda" ending of the first word adds some emphasis, kind of like the implied "biyotch" in the English version of the question.

Nice touch Vishy! I like it...

Apart from all the above drama, here are some important tidbits about this particular game.
- Sreesanth won the "man of the match" award - i.,e he was rewarded for being the best player amongst both sides.
- Sreesanth is and always been an emotional character unlike the majority of south asian players who are shy and keep their emotions in check. He was penalized not only for wearing brand logos on his sportswear, but also for making an indecent gesture to one of the south african players Hashim Amla ( who is also of south asian descent ). I personally think if the match referee were to be someone else, it might not have been a big deal, but for this game, the referee was Roshan Mahanama, an ex srilankan cricketer, he probably couldnt tolerate a fellow south asian's excessively emotional behavior and had to teach him a lesson of sorts. Usually white cricketers can get away from making any gestures they may make but..oh no.. when a south asian does it, its untolerable.
- What was accomplished in this game is one of the rarest feats for Indian cricket. India won a test match for the very first time on the South African soil, i.e., first time in 14 years ever since the ban was lifted on south africa from playing international cricket. Just a bit of history, India was the first visiting country to tour South africa after the ban was lifted, that was in 1992. I believe South Africa was originally banned for practicing apartheid. Also India was the first non white team ever to officially tour South Africa.
- This particular win was even more sweet becuase Indian team won by being good at fast bowling. India usually wins test matches mostly on the strength of thier spin bowlers. But in this game, seeing Sreesanth and Zaheer Khan, the fast bowling duo wrecking south african batting line up was really a treat to watch and that too on a foreign soil.
- Particularly Sreesanth's bowling was just amazing. In the slow motion replays, one could see the SEAM of the ball ( The threading around the leather ) was just perfect during the entire flight of the ball, i.,e it was perpendicular to the ground when it left his hand and it remained in that position until it reached the batsman. For an indian bowler to achieve that kind of consistent display of seam bowling is an extremely rare accomplishment.
- Also, people had already written off India after having drummed by south africa in all of the 5 one day cricket matches prior to the first test match. It was a shocker for everyone to see India bounce back and defeat south africa so convincingly.

Anyway, I cant wait to see the second test match - hopefully they can continue this impressive performance.

Anil Nair, the Managing Editor of Cricinfo-India, writes about how being a Keralite might have influenced Sreesanth's on-field personality: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/273399.html

You can read his post match interview here.

For any linguistics geeks, minor semantic/pragmatic quibble on the title: as it stands, the sense of the title would be, "Who is your father, Nel?" Imagine a number of men standing before Nel, kind of like in a line-up. These Malayalam words would be uttered if someone is asking Nel to pick out his father.

This is an interesting point, Vishy. This is the kind of thing that ABDs and 1.5 gens, by no fault of their own, just can't know. Being able to take an expression from a familiar culture and formulate its equivalent in an unfamiliar culture requires a thorough knowledge of jargon, figurative language and the multiple connotations for every word in that unfamiliar culture... and, well, if you knew all that, then it wouldn't be unfamiliar anymore! :) Those are things that you have to learn organically (hanging out with the boys after school, gossipping with the girls in the bathroom, evesdropping on the aunties at the house parties, etc). They don't teach you that stuff in formal education, and literal translations for very specific expressions, like "Who's your daddy?", usually end up being insufficient or inappropriate because something is lost in translation.

In Hindi, "Who's your daddy?" can be said in a few different ways. Let me give you two:

1. "Batao, tumhare pita kwon?"

2. "Bol, tera BAAP kwon!"

Literally, both sentences mean exactly the same thing, word for word. It's the striking difference in the diction that sets them apart - and that difference is apparent only to the culturally adjusted ear. The first one refers to a situation like you just described; it's as if someone is asking you to pick out your father from a line-up, or someone sincerely asking you who your actual father is simply because he/she is curious to know.

The second sentence, however, is figurative. One scenario you might hear it in: Some guy takes a swig of his wine, heavs loudly, looks you up and down, breaks into a sleazy grin, and demands you tell him who your daddy is. It's a rhetorical question, hence the exclamation point instead of a question mark. He wants to hear his name, not your actual father's. This expression is also used in other - quite different - scenarios, but the one consistent thing about it is that it's always the vulgar option. (Where I'm from, "Tera BAAP!" is the Hindi equivalent of "Yo MAMMA!", except with "daddy" instead of "mamma".)

So yeah... my point is, ABDs and 1.5 gens don't just need help with their vocab, they also need help gauging the appropriateness of expressions. I'm glad you were pedagogical without being condescending.

Me:

This is the kind of thing that ABDs and 1.5 gens, by no fault of their own, just can't know.

Sorry, that was a generalization. Of course they can know, but only if they've had enough exposure to others who can teach them (and this may or may not happen).

Apparently, Nel got his revenge when he fed Shastri some Biltong :D

Anil Nair, the Managing Editor of Cricinfo-India, writes about how being a Keralite might have influenced Sreesanth's on-field personality:

Do you buy his political explanation for why cricket was never popular in Kerala but is becoming so now? I think there could be many other reasons...increased access to media (especially television), increased 'indianisation' (as opposed to regionalism), and just the fact that it takes time for things to percolate through.

Also, I'm also a complete cricket ignoramus (the only games I care about are India vs Pakistan, and that's just because of my jingoistic streak that wants to see Pakistan lose, I don't actually watch the matches) but I have to say...after watching the clip...the fact that ANYONE in India could criticise this kid speaks volumes about their conservative mentality that drastically needs to change and join the modern world...sports is ALL ABOUT that victory dance, and the deliberate, 'gentlemanly' restraint, and civilised decorum that the older generation of cricket players displayed, needs to become history. I'm proud of this kid!

1. "Batao, tumhare pita kwon?"

2. "Bol, tera BAAP kwon!"

Shruti, this is an excellent example of why 2nd gen people need to be a bit careful when speaking languages like Hindi, Punjabi, etc...there are polite registers and rude registers, the nuances of which are often lost on 2nd gens...but some older folks will be really upset if a youngster says 'tera' or 'tu' to them. I myself had to drill myself on that stuff A LOT so that I wouldn't make that mistake.

the referee was Roshan Mahanama, an ex srilankan cricketer, he probably couldnt tolerate a fellow south asian's excessively emotional behavior and had to teach him a lesson of sorts. Usually white cricketers can get away from making any gestures they may make but..oh no.. when a south asian does it, its untolerable.

Srini,
Roshan Mahanama and Clive Lloyd have always been exessively harsh on Asian players. I have too much respect for their cricketing days to toss a casual "Uncle Tom" in their direction. I don't know where they're coming from, but it sure irritates the hell out of me.

Not complaining about Shreesanth's fine. Just surpsised that Nel wasn't fined for his clownish antics throughout the match.

Anil Nair, the Managing Editor of Cricinfo-India, writes about how being a Keralite might have influenced Sreesanth's on-field personality:

You know, the personality of all young people in India has changed a lot in the last 10-15 years...due to western media influence, kids now are much more into partying, drinking, being assertive, demonstrative, etc (and I'm not criticising any of that!) The old self-imposed restraint is fading away. Maybe these changes help explain Sreesanth's dance. In Delhi, I've even seen servants' children who are actually quite confident and well-spoken. It's a generational shift. Of course, there is still a lot of decorum, respect for authority, etc. which I would hate to see them lose completely (for the best examples of that, compare Indian Idol with American Idol, in terms of how differently the contestants treat each other as well as interact with the judges and vice versa).

but some older folks will be really upset if a youngster says 'tera' or 'tu' to them.

I didn't intend for either of them to be formal because I wanted to use two sentences that were, literally, the same. "Bataye aap..." would have been too obviously different. "Batao, tum..." and "Bol, tera..." are both informal, but if you do happen make the mistake of addressing someone older in the informal, it would still be waaaaay worse to ask them "Bol, tera baab kwon?". Yikes!! But yeah, knowing when to use the formal and the informal is tricky. I still don't know which one to use when I'm speaking Spanish, but because I actually grew up in a traditionally patriarchal Bihari family, I have the Hindi formal/informal thing on lock-down.

...but we're digressing far to much here. Anna and everyone else that celebrates it, I hope you have a wonderful Christmas eve, and a very merry Christmas day! :)

(Ok, gotta go drive home now)

Shruti, did you ever answer my question about whether you know Bhojpuri or not? Sorry if I missed it.

Nope. I'm from Patna; I speak Magdhi Hindi. But I only speak mainstream Hindi with non-Biharis (people tend to look down on you otherwise). If I feel really insecure about my Hindi, I use Urdu diction. I know, it's sad :)

Harsha Bhogle is an excellent commentator. He does not just know the game but is very insightful. Listen to his commentary if ever you get a chance.

Well he sounds snobbish to me. Where is the Indian Madden ???

So yeah... my point is, ABDs and 1.5 gens don't just need help with their vocab, they also need help gauging the appropriateness of expressions.

I beg to differ...I'm 1.5 gen (moved here when I was 16, sound American) and I can speak appropriately idiomatic Hyderabadi Hindi like a native (which I was). Your point is well taken, i.e. there are nuances of language that you just can't learn from a book, but my cousins speak perfectly appropriate Telugu (much better than mine) and were born here...it just depends on who you speak to and how you learned the language, i.e., did you take Hindi classes in college or did your parents speak it to you growing up. There are people who live in India and don't get the nuances of the local language because they speak predominantly English so I don't think it's just an ABD or 1.5 gen thing. It may or may not happen, as you said, but that's true of 1st generation people too.

Harsha Bhogle is an excellent commentator. He does not just know the game but is very insightful. Listen to his commentary if ever you get a chance.

Siddhu was good, but now he will be doing time for the manslaughter charge that he just got convicted of.

The "-eda" ending of the first word adds some emphasis, kind of like the implied "biyotch" in the English version of the question

Vishy, that was a classic integration of 'biyotch' into linguistics...my favourite ghetto fabulous word casts its tangled net far and wide...:)

Since it's the 25th here already, Merry Christmas everyone on SM! :) Well to the addicts who still check it on days like this....xox Hope you were good this year and duly rewarded... ;)

desishiksa, Maybe Sortova is a caste (boo!), not a dynasty ;-D

I'd say that you, like many people, are many things. Sort of one, sort of another.

LOL you actually joined a Sreesanth fan club :) I thought that was a one-off post at SM. I'm just a lurker who drifted here from Sandeep's scrapbook. Merry Christmas.

From my Orkut Scrapbook. :) If it's "one-off", then my cricket tutors will be very irritated with me, I'm sure. ;)

*That was absolutely spectacular shot from the Young man from Kerala.
*He made the malayalees proud!
Thanks for instructions of Allan Donald, which made sree to gain confidence in bowling.Thereby showing aggression in batting.