I've never understood what the big deal about 'linguistic inventiveness' is. Right from Joyce's moo-cow to Burgess' baboochka, all it has ever done is given me a headache and made me pick up some other book.

I know that comes across as over-judgmental but my patience has been tried a few too many times.

The desi youth of London,England he is talking about sounds alot like the desi youth in Vancouver, Canada.

Maybe its a punjabi jatt macho culture thing?

If you replace the Punj references w/ Scottish ones, you're talking about Irvine Welsh.

It's not that hard if you know Punjabi. That said, I wasn't that impressed either, but my issues had more to do with the plot and characters than the scene he was setting. He set the stage well, but ...

I'm of punjabi background, born and raised in Canada. Yet I've have never talked like that. But living in Vancouver area for the last couple of years I hear this new language of punjabi-english-eubonics all the time. In my last couple of visits to California, my cousins teenage sons and there punjabi friends speak like this. And I guess it safe to say that in England it is the same thing.

I hope there other people in my community that not happy with this.

Riddley Walker much?

i actually really enjoyed the book until the lst 30 or so pages of it. i didn't find the dialect to be too difficult (it's easier if you say the words in you head phonetically) and i got most of the punjabi phrases (even though i'm not) - i just had terrible trouble with the over dramatics of it all. the part about the desiboy machismo was pretty compelling i thought, and i think the rudeboy perspective is a pretty interesting one to write from and read. just wished i had put it down before it turned into a soap opera.

Shodan & Branch Dravidian - or like Anthony Burgess's A Clockwork Orange, even.

Actually, that quotation doesn't look that different than the crap I see posted on many myspace, friendster, etc., pages, including those of teen/twenty-something desis. When I see language like that, I immediately vamoose.

I've met the lovely Malkani twice in clubs (I recognized him from photos, don't think he was expecting that) but didn't mention that flicking through the book gave me a headache and there's no way this bookish language-lover was going to ever read it. :) However, PP's Sunny linked to an article by Malkani last April where he explains his whole thang, why he researched the rudeboy culture for his college thesis and all that, and THAT was a much better read, giving the background behind why he wrote Londonstani.

"At university, I had wanted to know why brown-skinned kids back home in the west London borough of Hounslow were suddenly choosing not to integrate with white-skinned kids. Why they were discarding the British Asian youth stereotype of disciplined, academically and grammatically conscientious citizens and instead asserting their ethnicity with an aggression usually associated with black-skinned kids." [...]

saJiT,

r u 4 real? dis b spk off da cool ladz innit. u noT cool.

I didn't find the language to be that difficult after a few pages; maybe b/c of the Punjabi, don't know. Either way I got used it hearing it in my head (which thankfully didn't continue after I had finished the book). And while it's not the greatest book in the world or the most ground-breaking, the rudeboy experience was still an interesting perspective to read from.

#3 wasn't meant to be a put down. Just couldn't help noticing the similarities.
Sajit's assessment is spot on.

Maybe its a punjabi jatt macho culture thing?

Malkani is Hindu, the narrator of his novel is Hindu too.

========

I think that the novel ultimately suffered because of the stylised language. Malkani was compared to Irvine Welsh -- hip young streetwise novel written in patois and dialect, except rather than heroin addicts in Edinburgh, Indian rudeboys in West London. But even so, there are times when the language just restricts, not just because it is occasionally hard to get into, but because it does not allow for the eloquence that will provide insight and revelation. It bothered me because Jas is a sensitive and intelligent narrator, and the limitations and exagerrations of his language were too stylised and cartoonish. I grew up with rudeboys, have cousins who are rude boys and rude girls, and even the rudest of desi rudeboys doesnt think, spit, talk and chat 24/7 in that straightened lingo.

The twist at the end was pointless too. I read somewhere Malkani saying that 'he wanted to come to some conclusions about British desi youth' by writing this novel --- which made it seem a little too much like a simple transposition of his Cambridge dissertation to the fictional world for my liking.

The hype was big on this novel and he got a big advance, there was an auction amongst publishers. Why? Because publishers in the UK are desperate to replicate the success of Zadie Smith's White Teeth, to get a novel from the margins of multicultural Britain that will in some way be a kind of zeitgeist defining insight into the 'seething complexities' of modern urban England in all it's multicultural confusion, glory, anger, alienation, dynamism etc etc etc, all that shit.

However, Malkani has talent, and I look forward to his next novel. If he googles and reads this, I want him to know that some of the resistance he met was because of the hype his book received but on it's own terms it is definitely a creditable first novel and I hope he keeps writing.

And, I was happy to see it being published. Why? Because I'm sick to the back teeth of mango-chutney-arranged marriage-immigrant narratives of the kind you all know so well, and get annoyed about as much as me. Time to move on.

Londonstanni is just the tip of the iceberg.. there's Rupe Dhillon who has writtern the inverse using Desi English Youth slang but in a Punjabi novel, and inverse Daljit Nagra who has written poems in Pinglish and is being heavily reviwed on TV in the UK. Both are getting exposure. It seems being Punjabi is the new black in the UK.

Ealing Council inm London are gathering Asian writers who write in Indian and English togeather on the 7th March 2007 in Southall to promote them.

See links

http://www.redhillandreigatelife.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1110531.mostviewed.author_brings_a_new_language_to_light.php

http://diggorypress.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=446&products_id=823

http://diggorypress.com/index.php?osCsid=d9f79105f0752bc68fac1cca423ccd5a&manufacturers_id=446&osCsid=d9f79105f0752bc68fac1cca423ccd5a

It bothered me because Jas is a sensitive and intelligent narrator, and the limitations and exagerrations of his language were too stylised and cartoonish.

I mean, there was a gap between his intelligence / understanding and his articulation, and the stylisation of the language prevented us getting his full insights and eloquence, because it had to stay within the linguistic boundaries and ambitions Malkani had set. It frustrated me and made it too cartoonish.

Sajit, get hold of a copy of Nirpal Singh Dhaliwal's 'Tourism' if you can, would love to know what you thought of that.

Hi,

I am a dholki player and a writer. i have written extensivley in English and Punjabi. Occasionally I have supported my sister in her films.

At the moment I am organising a new forum to help Desi writers and singers promote themselves. Especially those who write in Punjabi. It does not have to use the indian alpahabet. I persoannly use the english alphabet. This is the right time I feel to capture this as Asian writing both in English and other languages is becoming very popular in the UK, and who knows we can include the USA and Canada in this.

I am presently organising a forum for this called Satranga Sahit. Anyone who is interested can contact me via Desi Radio or directly on 04420 7241 0482.

I am interested in getting togeather anyone who has always wanted to write and is Asian. I think Londstanni is a brillient example of this. Also I agree with Literati that Rupe Dhillon and Nagra are also very relevant on the British Scene right now, which is why I have re done his link, as wee ned to support Desi Literature.

Pinn Chadha

Uber

r u 4 real? dis b spk off da cool ladz innit. u noT cool.

Red Snapper:

I have heard mixed reviews of Tourism, but will try and check it out. Next for me is Chandra's Sacred Games. I probably won't have a review for a year or so, but I was inspired after hearing him read a couple of days ago at politics and prose here in DC.

Sajit

You might find Dhaliwal's review of Londonstani interesting:

Nitwits on Nokias

It's a vicious review, but then two London Indian lads having their debut novels published almost simultaneously was bound to stir up a healthy dose of competition. Personally I think Nirpal is a bit of an idiot, but his novel is an interesting read for all its faults (there are many) in contrast to Londonstani.

Pickle Politics covered the fracas.

Pickled, I mean.

Hop on over. Kismet Hardy, self-described "deeply bitter" aspiring novelist, has some strong words on the subject.

I'm sayin, isn't "Londonstani" a term associated with Bangladeshis in London, particularly Sylhetis? I didn't know it included Punjabi Hindus? Also,even if they're punjabi wouldn't it have been more accurate if they were Sikh. My cousins in the U.K. tell me that Sikhs and Muslims get down like that, not Hindus.

I haven't read "Londonstani" but know someone who put it down after 30 pgs for the same reason - headache! He knew bits of Punjabi, which helped move along that far. I know I had trouble with Meera Syal's Brit slang and forced myself into b/c the story was so good. And, I know that was nothing in comparison.

While it's good to use dialogue to represent a community, I think as a writer you have to be a bit more responsible. I just read a review in Phila Inquirer about Vikram Chandra's book and the reviewer liked the book, but the Bombayia language without any definitions was frustrating.

I always take these examples out of the Indian context and make it Chinese. If all this slang was peppered with Chinese, how effective would it be? Unless your "homeys" were speaking Mandarin, you wouldn't know.

So, what's the point of isolating and excluding your audience?

Totally agree Red Snapper -- I do not read books if there are scents of jasmine or sandalwood or spices whispering in the first two paragraphs.

I'm sayin, isn't "Londonstani" a term associated with Bangladeshis in London, particularly Sylhetis? I didn't know it included Punjabi Hindus? Also,even if they're punjabi wouldn't it have been more accurate if they were Sikh. My cousins in the U.K. tell me that Sikhs and Muslims get down like that, not Hindus.

I don't know. What do Hindus get down like?

Leicester - Wembley - Harrow and Southall are full of Hindu rudeboys and girls.

Ashi, I think he was trying to offer a perspective through language. I don't think it's about excluding an audience. With the Vikram Chandra thing, it's quite interesting how he uses English and peppers it with Hindi words, same with all Indian writers who write in English.

With Malkani, he's trying to approximate and stylise a certain way of speaking when English, Jamaican patois, cockney slang, and Punjabi / Hindi words are mashed up by a certain kind of person, and even though it is (in my view) over stylised, it is recognisable, this is the way that people actually talk. The use of Punjabi words next to plain English and patois is a natural thing, and as such, his language aims to be representative, and even though it's stylised he seeks to give it all a sense of naturalism.

With the Vikram Chandra thing, I always wonder --- all the dialogue is in English, even when the characters are speaking Hindi, and then in the middle of the English sentences, they throw some Hindi in there, so instead of saying 'motherfucker' he'll italicise 'maderchod' or whatever. So the dialogue is Hindi rendered in English with occasional Hindi words thrown in for....authenticity?

Although I agree with you Ashi that the language can alienate the potential audience, the counter-argument to that is that he is trying to bring to the English novel the language of the British Indians, in the same way that Irvine Welsh wanted to represented Edinburgh-Scots English when he wrote Trainspotting.

Although you will be glad to know that there is jasmine, sandalwood or spices anywhere in the novel which is a refreshing change.

While it's good to use dialogue to represent a community, I think as a writer you have to be a bit more responsible. I just read a review in Phila Inquirer about Vikram Chandra's book and the reviewer liked the book, but the Bombayia language without any definitions was frustrating.

I actually disagree. I think it's vital for a writer to be as irresponsible as possible. Writing is exactly where a person can flex his ideas, and push technique as far as possible. It's up to the reader to accept or reject a given technique, but the writer should push the boundaries. The reader might find himself making an effort to keep up with where the writer's taking things, and that can be a rewarding experience.

Or so I find.

I suspect the publishers are going to saturate the market w/ Punjabi hard boys and Mumbai hardboiled.

Red Snapper,
Curious about your thoughts on Tourism.

Malkani was compared to Irvine Welsh -- hip young streetwise novel written in patois and dialect

I had not heard of "Londonstani" before, but this makes total sense. Large parts of "Trainspotting" are written in dialect, very hard to follow unless you read out loud while faking a Scottish accent! I only finished a third of that book. It just became too much work to be fun.

Generally speaking, however, I think this sort of writing should be encouraged, both as an exercise in bringing one culture to the attention of another, and as an exercise in writing technique and language.

I haven't read the book, but I've paged through it a few times. The style kind of reminds me of Hubert Selby Jr.

Shodan

The more I think about Tourism the more I find faults with it. Someone described it as 'white-liberal baiting dick lit' --- imagine Michel Houellbecq via Southall. It's about a dissafected Southall guy sleeping his way through middle and upper class London society. You will never read a novel so desperate to shock, so desperate to be politically incorrect, to fire off 'shocking' insights into race, religion, sex (loads of cold graphic sex) etc etc etc. It's derivative. Some good things like when the narrator goes back to visit his family. You could see some tensions rise there. But overall, it's just too full of its own sense of danger and full of posturing to be really explosive or shocking. The hook is that it's an Indian guy (the narrator) being borderline racist and bigoted and coldly dismissive as he shags white women. Supposed to be like, ennui or something. Worth reading though because at least it's not another mango-chutney-arranged marriage dilemma thing with an insight into how Indian food and spices are so metaphorical of the pang in the heart of the immigrant etc etc

I just think it's good to see different kinds of novel getting published by British Asian writers, even if they don't come up to scratch. Like I would like to read something different from The Namesake getting published in America about your experiences. You need to produce something like Portnoy's Complaint next.

LOL, i'm in london and i'm lookin to find some rude boys down in Hounslow!!!

LoL!

I believe Ealing Broadway is where they all hang out on Friday nights.

I suspect the publishers are going to saturate the market w/ Punjabi hard boys and Mumbai hardboiled.

Martial races for a new generation?

Isn't great writing about describing a place/time/people without giving the reader a headache?
A really skilled writer will always find a way to avoid the headache, and in this case, allow us to "hear" the rude boys.

Trouble is, people have different headache levels. Sure, that's what good writers can do. But it doesnt mean all writers have to aim to do that. Malkani took a risk in writing this way. He didnt pull it off completely, but then at the same time, he does not fail, either.

I don't think Londonstani is a particularly chair-rockin' book, but I do like the patois. Maybe I am strange, and maybe the familiarity with Punjabi helps, but I feel like this is like reading any book written in "local color." Similarly, I find it helps if I sound out the words in my head... it goes a LOT faster :) I doubt people often write down how they vocalize their own slang, so that could be what makes it difficult. I feel like the more familiar something is, the easier it is to understand. By extension, viva writing in local dialects!

The desi youth of London,England he is talking about sounds alot like the desi youth in Vancouver, Canada....Maybe its a punjabi jatt macho culture thing?

Mr Kobayashi: I think it's vital for a writer to be as irresponsible as possible. Writing is exactly where a person can flex his ideas, and push technique as far as possible. It's up to the reader to accept or reject a given technique, but the writer should push the boundaries. The reader might find himself making an effort to keep up with where the writer's taking things, and that can be a rewarding experience.

Really great point! That brings us back to the old question of WHY does the writer write -- for the self or the reader?

IMO, if you want to write for yourself, keep a journal. I think writers should be able to do both and THAT would be more challenging. It's harder to get your thoughts into a cohesive and understandable order, and throwing things out haphazardly is a lot easier.

I always think a writer should take the reader by the hand and lead them to where he/she wants the reader to be. You can't just thrust a lot of ideas and thoughts on them and expect them to understand what you're trying to say.

r u 4 real? dis b spk off da cool ladz innit. u noT cool.

Please, stop, please? I can't take anymore of this texting language. Maybe I am getting old.

hey sajit, wanna write a post without using the word "timepass" ? thanks. londonstani is the illest book ever. fix yo' face.

I'm sayin, isn't "Londonstani" a term associated with Bangladeshis in London, particularly Sylhetis? I didn't know it included Punjabi Hindus? Also,even if they're punjabi wouldn't it have been more accurate if they were Sikh. My cousins in the U.K. tell me that Sikhs and Muslims get down like that, not Hindus.

Yes, several of the main characters are Hindus (I don't know if they are Punjabi), and they all speak like that.

So, what's the point of isolating and excluding your audience?

Some of this slang is familiar to the audience because it has trickled down. Also, Rushdie has the same problem - he throws in lots of slang and references that are not accessible to a broader readership, but people rarely complain.

But it doesnt mean all writers have to aim to do that

Where is Amardeep when we need him?;-)

Red Snapper,
Thanks for the mini review. And I agree w/ you on mango chutney business. At this point it has become the smooooth jazz of literature.

Ashi

IMO, if you want to write for yourself, keep a journal. I think writers should be able to do both and THAT would be more challenging. It's harder to get your thoughts into a cohesive and understandable order, and throwing things out haphazardly is a lot easier.

Can you explain what you mean?

I always think a writer should take the reader by the hand and lead them to where he/she wants the reader to be. You can't just thrust a lot of ideas and thoughts on them and expect them to understand what you're trying to say.

Nah, spoonfeeding insults my intelligence. I like having a lot of ideas and thoughts thrust upon me, and as violently as possible. I don't know how important it is for the writer to try to predict and guage his/her audience, but I think the writer shouldn't even think like that because I don't see how that raises the level of creativity in the writer or the level of understanding in the reader. When you write whatever the hell you want, you of course run the risk of going into unfamiliar territory, so it may seem like you made a set of expectations, but that's not necessarily the case.

Shodan,

Thanks for the mini review. And I agree w/ you on mango chutney business. At this point it has become the smooooth jazz of literature.

Why you gotta hate?

I was born and raised in London but I am currently living outside of the UK. There were two groups of 'British Asians', the ones who spoke like that and the ones that did not. I was one of the ones who did not but growing up around plenty of people who did was very annoying. I can understand that the uniqueness and bizare nature of it drew you to it Sajit but I would not have expected you to have continued liking it (and it seems that this has now happened). When I was surrounded by people at school who spoke like this it was just plain annoying and irritating, me and my friends did not find it cool and I don't know if this is still true but back then it was the usually the more over confident, macho gangster wannabes / non studying guys (and many girls) who spoke like that. Perhaps now thats changed and everyone speaks like that but before I could usually tell that if someone came up to me and said 'blaaaad, yaah knoww whaaaa eh I meaaaan maaa bruderin' they probably had not done the homework that was due for the day.

Here is a question:
If a rude boy wrote a novel how would he write the dialog?

for example, "dis"
Options:
1. Write "this" and leave it at that
2. Write "dis" and leave it at that
3. Write "this" and convey "dis"

And what about writing in first or third person?

Shruti,

Why you gotta hate?

Thanks for the link.

they probably had not done the homework that was due for the day.

The scoundrels!

Nirpal Dhaliwal. This charming man.

I didn't mind the way it was written, beyond that it was too blatantly blueprinted, in writing and plot construction, off Irvine Welsch. The out-of-place economics lectures got really jarring. I know the guy's an editor at the Financial Times, but he should have separated work from writing a bit more. That ending... IT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER......

Rudeboy culture has been around in the uk for years and it is there to stay. The language used in the book is not just restricted to Punjabi's let alone Asians...increasingly there are more and more white kids emulating this 'street talk' or text message talk.
the book i agree was a refreshing change from the immigrant experience and arranges marriage woes and as a Brit sa few references to the characters lives were things i could draw on or had seen.

hey sajit, wanna write a post without using the word "timepass" ? thanks. londonstani is the illest book ever. fix yo' face.

apkapita: Maybe, one day I will have the ability to write a post without using timepass.

On the whole use of slang versus non slang: I think it is up to each author to write in whatever style they want. If the consumer chooses to buy the product than so be it. Vikram Chandra said he wrote Sacred Games for himself and his family who experienced some of the things that inspired the book. I rather like his peppering of prose with some Mumbai slang every now and again.

With Londonstani, I thought it would be interesting had the slang been introduced selectively rather than the whole book. I thought Jas as narrator could have at least been written without the use of the "desi patois."

peppering of prose with some Mumbai slang

Now,there's a recipe that seems to have worked.

On the whole use of slang versus non slang: I think it is up to each author to write in whatever style they want. If the consumer chooses to buy the product than so be it.

Authors should of course be free to write as they please. But the style should evolve directly from the content, and literary devices/techniques should be necessary to tell the story effectively. They should not be pyrotechnics used to disguise, like special effects in a bad movie.

'Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.'
-Einstein

The scoundrels!

It's easy to mock Ajit's sentiment that they hadn't done their homework...but there's a more serious point, that these 'rudeboys' are just harming themselves with their attitude. By not caring about school, and not looking to the future, they are condemning themselves to a lifetime of economic struggle (and marginal economic status). They're the ones who'll suffer in the end. But yes it's possibly also true that there might not be a whole lot of opportunities in the UK anyway (any comments on that, Red Snapper?).

Amitabh,
If humanity wasn't flawed the museums, libraries, and concert halls would be empty.

It's easy to mock Ajit's sentiment that they hadn't done their homework...but there's a more serious point, that these 'rudeboys' are just harming themselves with their attitude. By not caring about school, and not looking to the future, they are condemning themselves to a lifetime of economic struggle (and marginal economic status).

It's one of the themes in the novel. How to escape a lifetime of drudgery working at Heathrow airport.

i actually really enoyed the west london slang in the book... that amalgamation of west indian rudeboy swagger and punjabi hardass/momma's boy thing is one of the cultural tenets of underground London that help to explain why so much intereesting, cross-cultural, cross-identity things come out of there. It also means that i have to spend the last 30 mins of the flight into heathrow practicing how to big up all my manz dem in leeds without sounding like a yankee wanka.

so the slang, yes. the story in general and the whizzbanger of an ending? not so much.

Nice to see lots of folks standing up for Gautam Malkani. But, he is nowhere as talented as Monica Ali when it comes to toying with the language:D

Malkani is Hindu, the narrator of his novel is Hindu too.

Red, you say that and then this:

The twist at the end was pointless too.

Meaning that you actually got to the end and found out who the narrator was. So WTF? Have I missed something?

Despite that, I luuurrved the book, especially the slang though I generally cannot abide reading books in dialect. (Their Eyes Were Watching God - like, two pages and i had to stop). The economics lecture in the middle didn't make a lot of sense but all you haters, man, don't have to take it so seriously. it's hard for any book to live up to its hype.

xoxo,
mallu newbie from toronto