priceless. as rich as dum(b) aloo.

Among the papers were visa applications submitted by Byron Pollitt, chief financial officer of San Francisco’s Gap Inc., and Anne Gust, wife of California Attorney General Jerry Brown.

Not blaming the messenger - but David Lazarus of SF Chronicle has a well known reputation for hyping up security and ID theft issues. Who can forget how he hyped up the Pakistani medical transcript lady who threatened to publish data on the Internet if she is not paid. Instead of going after her US employers, Lazarus went on a witch hunt "Your medical data is not safe! See that Paki is trying to put it on the Internet"

Valid points, but at some point one has to draw a line and understand that we have not seen the days yet of a streetvendor selling personal information / medical information yet despite the hype created by security-privacy-company paid apologists like David Lazarus.

Lazarus's anti-outsourcing position using "privacy" bogey is also well known and he has tried several times to put pressure on Congressmen to bring anti-outsourcing, anti-offshoring legislations.

He is just another lobbyist for computer security companies...just search in Google for his articles on WellsFargo, BoFA etc. Doomsday scenario created by likes of Lazarus has not become reality yet.

That said, babus of Indian Cons General in SF need some basic training on data destruction. I hope their computers are still not stuck in Windows 98. Cons General Prakash is a smart, well-read and well-travelled man, so I am bit surprised at this oversight.

The Indian Consulate is lucky that this story has come out at a time when the city is mostly occupied with the Mayor's affair with his married secretary (and wife of his reelection campaign manager), so attention is elsewhere!

I find it somewhat annoying that they focus on the celebs who could have been harmed, like the GAP COO.

You cant make this shit up..only desis are able to come up with these priceless statements!
The one in NYC, on 64th is it?, functions horribly and is completely unorganized. Its all about 'who you know' to get your work done quicker..some things never change

It's so easy for identity theft to occur... for someone to walk right in and get a copy of someone else's birth certificate. Sh*t like this is just making it easier.

You're quite welcome. Definitely newsworthy, didn't realize it was blogworthy =)

“As we see it, the documents are not confidential,” said B.S. Prakash, the consul general.

If there was an award for ludicrous statements, this would get top honors.

Heh. Desi bureaucracy at its very best.

I do think the point about cultural differences is very interested. It makes me wonder what they do with old documents in New Delhi. It wouldn't surprise me to hear they just sell the stuff by the kilo to a local kabbadiwallah.

One day, you buy yourself some channa in the train, and it comes wrapped in your own passport application!

I find it somewhat annoying that they focus on the celebs who could have been harmed, like the GAP COO.

i hope indian business get the flame under their collective arse and pull some strings in new delhi to get these bungholes in sf to apologize publicly and clean up their act.

there's a fair bit of big corporates in SF alone, let alone the broader bay area to make this a matter of concern - i'm thinking earthlink, wells fargo, levis off the top of my head. imagine this - you're trying to outsource some business process to india and the guys in india are working their tail off getting the locals to believe that biz standards are up to snuff - and then the Cfo of their client gets his personal details plastered all over the garbage dump.

These chumps need to be transferred out pronto to the outpost in antactica to do a penguin count.

I swear... this story gets more WTF the more I think about it.

hema, that was pricelss :)

Wow, Siddhartha, the cultural, environmental, and semantic arguments are awesome. But perhaps you've missed the meta-argument, as articulated by the US government just a couple of weeks ago --

The US anticipates that India will emerge[] as a more effective global partner because of its growing confidence as a world player due to sustained high rates of economic growth, the Department of Homeland Security expressed in its annual report to the Congress.

You think anyone can cause any harm with these documents? Guess again, buddy, and you know why? Because we're more confident! And getting paid!

“As we see it, the documents are not confidential,” said B.S. Prakash, the consul general. “We would see something as confidential if it has a Social Security number or a credit card number, not a passport number.”

Obviously Prakash Babu never heard of identity theft. I can just shake my head in disgust and say typical Indian bureaucracy.

musical,

Thanks! I aim to please! ;)

Guys, the way i see it, the consulate has no incentive to placate or keep the visa applicants happy. Hence the dumb nonchalant response. If they need a visa, they have to go there, whether they like it or not.

""A cultural argument:

At the Indian Consulate, Consul General Prakash said there may be a cultural dimension to the level of outrage related to the incident among Western visa applicants. “In India, I would not be alarmed,” he said. “We have grown up giving such information in many, many places. We would not be so worried if someone had our passport number.” "

Not surprising...loans are much tougher to get in India than in the US....the US economy is built on consumer debt (yay!!)...India is not (yet...though that is changing)....ID theft has primary force in relation to credit...being able to get that fifth pair of Prada's or getting that new SubZero fridge.

As long as our bureaucracy is run by dhotiwalla bihari's from the cow belt, this type of asinine $h!t will continue to happen.

Crap, I just applied for & got my visa from the SF consulate last week so my papers have been on top of the trash pile. Unbelievable!

adi postulated

As long as our bureaucracy is run by dhotiwalla bihari's from the cow belt, this type of asinine $h!t will continue to happen.

Guys, the way i see it, the consulate has no incentive to placate or keep the visa applicants happy. Hence the dumb nonchalant response. If they need a visa, they have to go there, whether they like it or not.

Precisely. in fact, the consulate does potential visitors a favor. It already gives them a taste of how such services would be implemented in India, if the visitor were to ever partake in them.

after reading this post,

i know i probably shouldn't be laughing, but i just can't help it :D :D :D :D
... then

Lazarus went on a witch hunt "Your medical data is not safe! See that Paki is trying to put it on the Internet"

i'm not laughing ... can we stop using the p word on this blog? (and yes i am overly sensitive and yes i am in charge of the pc police) ... and then

One day, you buy yourself some channa in the train, and it comes wrapped in your own passport application!

:D :D :D

Weird that the article cites a "cultural dimension" to the cavalier attitude toward personal data, when the whole Indian outsourcing / BPO industry is based on the premise that Westerners' financial, medical, and other data will be safeguarded (there were fears about this early on, which have obviously subsided). Indians clearly know how to manage sensitive information. The writer of the article just went looking to have his biases confirmed, but the consul general should be recalled to India. This isn't how a soon-to-be global economic superpower conducts business.

the whole Indian outsourcing / BPO industry is based on the premise that Westerners' financial, medical, and other data will be safeguarded (there were fears about this early on, which have obviously subsided). Indians clearly know how to manage sensitive information.

At least that's what we're all hoping. ;)

An environmental argument:

Deputy Consul General Sircar said that in other countries, Indian officials are able to go to the roofs of their offices and burn documents they’re no longer able to store.

“In America, you cannot do that,” he said.

Must be a South Asian thang. In Kuala Lumpur, my hotel room overlooked the Pakistani embassy/consulate, and they used to burn paperwork in a metal barrel in the garden on a regaular basis.

i've been (un)lucky enough to attempt to take care of passport work with the indian embassies in sf and chicago -- the employees there have the traditional indian mentality, aka, "i'll take care of your work when i bloody well feel like it". documents collect on the floor under the fax machine, files are unorganized (if even existent), work effort is zilch, and there is an complete lack of responsibility for services. so the tossing of confidential documents out with yesterday's teabags doesn't surprise me in the least.

anyone have any idea why this poor level of gov't service is allowed to exist here? i understand its common in india, but i was shocked to encounter it sf and chicago.

glass houses (#16) made a very perceptive observation; the United States is par excellence a business-run society and the general culture reflects it. A large sector of indigenous business was completely excluded from state formation in India (I am going back to the mid-eighteenth contury now), and as such a 'legal rational' norm as (Max Weber would have described it) never emerged. Instead business communities relied on inter-personal relationships since the state never universalized or enforced indigenous business norms.....

I just want to let you all at 'Sepia Mutiny' know that this blog website is fab. I wish we had something like this in the UK.

I love how the NYC consulate has pan spit stains along the outside of the building (just like home!).

Also, even though it says it opens at 11am on Sundays, the guy's chai doesn't come until 11.30am, so don't expect to get in before then. Also expect another 15 minutes to go by before he lifts up the shade to see your pathetic face!

I was working to get our non profit registered in Mumbai and when we went there, there were no computers and STACKS and STACKS of papers and organizational appeals all over the place. Minimum 1.5 inches of dust. Compared to some of the other BMC (Bombay Municipal Corp) offices, which are fairly modern (and don't have AS MANY stacks). It was pretty appalling to think of how many pending cases are still lying there.

Eglantine, all you need is a blog account somewhere and some overeducated desi friends with too much time on their hands!

Ok, given the way this thread is going, I can no longer resist sharing a personal anecdote.

In Bangkok last year, I was strolling around Wat Pho temple when I was smitten with a spunky but malnourished kitten with the oddest markings I'd ever seen, and decided to see if I could bring her home with me to the US. (One small complication, I was routed home through Bombay for some R & R, so I'd have to take her through there too.)

I called the US Embassy in BKK (for some odd reason, the answer to the what-paperwork-do-I-need question comes under the Homeland Security unit; I kid you not) and the woman asked me "Do you have an email address?"

Five minutes later, or less, she had emailed me a PDF detailing what the US gov't and the Thai gov't required.

Ok, on to the Indian consulate now.

I was put through to a man who said "Hmm, I haven't had a query like this in a while. Hold on, please, while I check with a colleague."

He puts down the phone on his desk and says to a colleague in the room (I can overhear this 'cos I'm not on hold) "There's this woman who wants to bring a cat from Thailand to India for a few days before traveling on to the US. What sort of paperwork does she need?"

Colleague replies "I don't know! Tell her to go away!"

Helpful bureaucrat #1 says "I can't tell her to go away!"

He tells me he'll try to find out and I should call back the next day.

Next day, no luck, he suggests I call Air India.

They also don't know.

I ended up calling Bombay International Airport Customs and had someone say "I don't know, but try the _______ Dept. Here's their number." (Note, not "I'll transfer you.")

20 international calls from my hotel room in BKK to various airport departments later, I get through to a vet at some agri dept who tells me all the paperwork I need, plus a photo of the kitten.

[A photo???? In case she gets loose and infects Santa Cruz with a strain of the avian flu? Would she then appear on a CNN-IBN news bulletin? "If you've seen this kitten, please contact authorities immediately."]

I also discovered the info - guess where ? - on the website of the Indian consulate in NY, though minus the bit about the photo. I had asked a family member in NY to call the consulate to be sure the info was still valid, but it was impossible to get through to anyone.

So, off we head to Bombay.

At the airport, cart laden with luggage, ciggies from the BKK duty free, and 1/2 kilo tortoiseshell kitten in tow, I am the lone eejit making her way to the red channel.

I approach one customs man and smile, saying in my best excuse-me-Mr.-Customs-Official-please-don't-take-my-kitten-from-me voice:

"Hello, I'm here to declare this cat."

"Vaaaaat is in your luggage?"

"Um, no, sir, I'm not here about the luggage, I'm here about this cat. She has her papers and all her injections." (Holding up thick dossier.)

"Vaaat? You have injections?"

"No, no, sir, I have this cat, and SHE has had her necessary injections."

Wave of hand in kitten's direction. "Cat is ok. Vaaaat is in your luggage?" (Not even looking once at cat nor paperwork.)

Needless to say, we made it through customs, and home to NY a few days later.

I did find it a little alarming that no one even looked at her. She could have as well been a small endangered monkey. (I didn't use the "m" word, Siddhartha.)

Coming through JFK, I had a small repeat performance just before I exited the baggage claim area, saying to the customs guy you give your declaration to "Hi, I guess I need to declare her to you." (Holding up the carrier.)

"Nope, you don't. Welcome home." Takes form and waves me through.

I love how the NYC consulate has pan spit stains along the outside of the building (just like home!).

I think it even has them on the inside too. I love those ticket numbers that you HAVE TO KEEP, until your number is displayed. If you lose it..tough luck, NEXT!

I just want to let you all at 'Sepia Mutiny' know that this blog website is fab. I wish we had something like this in the UK.

Isn't Pickled Politics based in the UK?

I love those ticket numbers that you HAVE TO KEEP, until your number is displayed. If you lose it..tough luck, NEXT!

filmiholic, that was a wonderful thing you did - adopting the kitten and going through that bureaucratic maze for her. how's she doing?

I would have expected nothing less than this from our consulate, given that they live in a world of their own, a little India in the USA. Any suggestions on how we can get to them, to let them know that they need to start learning about the culture of the host country since they are here to actually "serve" the residents of the host country. I don't really want to write them a letter with my name and address, or even email them with my real identity. Not only because it will be plastered all over the city, but also because I don't want to end up in some blacklist of folks who dare question/comment on their actions. You see, I need their "blessings" on a regular basis to visit desh. I'm sure they don't read Sepia Mutiny, so I want them to hear our collective reaction, without identifying each one of us separately. Is this even possible?

I can vouch a similiar story for Filmiholic.

My aunt (a vile person) came back from Colombia with a rare, endangered parrot she smuggled through into Chicago. She hadn't bothered with 'all that paperwork'.

These birds are said to live many decades.

Poor parrot.

WGIIA, thanks for asking, she's doing great! She had already been screened for leukemia and FIV before leaving BKK, but she also got a clean bill of health from the vet here and no uniquely Thai/SE Asian diseases appeared, so that was a relief.

Two funny things I've seen is, one, she goes crazy for sticks of incense (must be familiar to her from the temple), and, two, she seems to feel the cold here more than her US-born big brother. She actually perches on the radiator on really cold evenings, and she loves to burrow under blankets.

I still can't quite believe we made it all the way home with no complications.

And I learned that if you want to feel like a celeb, take a small pet in carrier with you around the airport and in your aircraft cabin, and you'll be the centre of attention. From Bangkok, to Bombay, to Paris, everyone who saw the carrier had to come up, peer inside, ask what she was, where she was from, and how much she cost. Ground crews in both Bangkok and Bombay solemnly assured me that I had earned myself blessings by giving her a home, and the security checkpoint people in Paris wanted to cuddle her!

Next objective: Bombay street puppy!

(Just kidding.)

(Well, sort of.) :-)

Filmi,
That's a neat story. You did a great thing adopting that kitten.

Vidya,

India Abroad had a series of looooong letters to the editor about a year or so back that they ran for a several issues in a row, of people writing to complain about their awful treatment at the hands of the NY consulate (maybe some other cities too). I seem to remember that they expressly said they were doing it to bring the matter to the consulate's attention because they had gotten so many complaints.

Oddly enough, the two times I went to get my visas there, I was in and out, everything just as promised.

BUT, as I sat in an Air France office in Bangkok last year, sorting out the arrangements for the kitten to go in the cabin, it flashed through my head that I had left my cancelled US passport (which contained my 10-year, multiple entry visa) at home in NY!

Now, I too was thrown into the same maelstrom so many others complain about. I had to navigate the Bangkok consulate who have a system similar to NY (drop off, pick up later), but with some weird twist I forget (something like, you drop off paperwork one day, drop off passport another morning, come back in afternoon of same day for passport with visa). Well, of course, me and a few other dodos, misunderstood this ('cos the sign is not that clear, and the woman who accepted my paperwork didn't contradict or clarify when I outlined the process incorrectly to her) and showed up in the afternoon, only to be yelled at like I was a Class A idiot by the man behind the plexiglass.

After much grousing to the woman next to him about our simple-minded inability to follow procedure, he took care of mine and the few other dopey turistas who also misunderstood. But wow, first, they carried in and out huge stacks of passports, and had masses of paperwork piled up all over, which just amazed me to see how many people do travel to India, and also to wonder how they keep track of it all. And second, they were totally obnoxious to the people applying for visas.

The last time I had an experience like that was applying for a Brazilian visa at the consulate in NY, and the staff there too were horrid, quite contrary to what you find when you're in Brazil itself, and folks are so easygoing.

I think it may, at least in part, the result of working for outdated bureacracies. Once mistreated people get a teeny bit of power in such arrangements, they enjoy lording it over anyone they can.

I think the scene in India about identity theft is rapidly changing.
Let me share some events that rotuinely happen with me.
My name is a very common north indian name and my yahoo id is also similar.
Last year I got account information of my "hum-naam" (person with same name) for his newly opened ICICI bank brokerage account.
I even had his address, complete account number.

I sent several emails to ICICI bank in Delhi (I assume) explaining how they are sending information of one of their customer to my email address by mistake. After a couple of times explaining the IT dept. realized the blunder and sent me an email thanking.

I think this is just the beginning.

adi postulated

As long as our bureaucracy is run by dhotiwalla bihari's from the cow belt, this type of asinine $h!t will continue to happen.

i dont believe sircar and prakash advertised their ethnicities. i dont believe they are from bihar. and even if they are, it reflects on them positively to have made it through the grinding indian civil services selection process. i am not sure what you communicated except for your ignorance and/or personal bias. now behave.

What is surprising is B.S. Prakash writes articles for rediff. And most of it is very sane and thoughtful. I am thinking he may have had to give those explanations after finding out some of our peons did this.

indeed Mytake. Thank you.

I read this one ... and have nothing but respect for him. it is very well written. It also reflects sensitivity, intelligence and a weariness for having to defend his nation in more instances than one. i have a feeling he was baited into giving those somewhat odd comments. i am more sorry for him than not.

on another note - i have desisted commenting on 'desi babudom' so far - but guys - i have visited the toronto office a ouple of times and it's a 4 hr affair every time - after the initial fluster, a weird tranquility settles in, once one realizes you cant hurry things. i clear up my calendar and sit down to people watch and sometimes laugh out openly at the delicious humanity of it all - people sharing sob stories, birht stories - well - it is a tough job at the consulate and the number of people marching through the doors is just insane - couple that with the variations in the audience - in education, in vulnerability, in language, in attitude and this can easily become a hairy (sic) situation. people flip out. processes break down.

the thing is, i am not necessarily concerned about whethere there was REALLY any security risk. It's a matter of appearances - and the folks in SF have laid themselves open to closed-ended questions whose response is damning whatever the answer.

Anyway, thank you mytake. i quite enjoyed the article.

Anyway, thank you mytake. i quite enjoyed the article.

Anytime.

This is ridiculous! We are not in INDIA. Someone need to fire and re-hire. I was at the consulate where you pull a number and supposedly wait until they call it. About 20 mins into it I realized people were pulling numbers and then just waiting in line to be served. The numbers were not actually being used at ALL. So why do they have numbers and a screen which flashes them? As I left the consulate my number still had not been called. I love India but come on - we are in a more efficient place. A place where privacy is more respected. Get with the program FOBS!

We are not in INDIA.

kiss my kaccha.

I think it's important to remember that a certain "desiness" also pervades the majority of the Indian consulate's customers.

It's not uncommon for people to show up with incomplete applications, missing documentation, etc. and demand to get their new passports right away. There is also a certain expectation that you can use the same shortcuts people use in India: calling up your "jigri yaar" who just happens to the ambassador in DC who then "muscles" the consular official into working on your application first; offering to "help" the consular official in some way, etc. It can get pretty hairy for the poor guy working the counter.

I've had only good experiences with the consulate in Chicago. I sent them my documents by mail, with a pre-paid FedEx envelope and had my passport back with the visa stamp in less than the time suggested in the application form.

There's probably no excuse for this cavalier handling of documents, but I do think the consular officials deserve at least some sympathy. They're underpaid by American standards, and their spouses can't work, etc.

filmiholic, glad to hear and see (just checked the most recent pics from your link) that malli is doing well and getting along with big brother :)

"Next objective: Bombay street puppy!
(Just kidding.)
(Well, sort of.) :-)"

i know the feeling and temptation. you're lucky you didn't have to subject malli to mandatory quarantine.

"Once mistreated people get a teeny bit of power in such arrangements, they enjoy lording it over anyone they can."

the good old mini-hitler syndrome. some people don't even have to be mistreated to behave like this.

One day, you buy yourself some channa in the train, and it comes wrapped in your own passport application!

I love those ticket numbers that you HAVE TO KEEP, until your number is displayed. If you lose it..tough luck, NEXT!

Maybe they'd keep the visa applications forever too, if they had room for them. I'd laugh if it wasn't so horrific. Maybe not having bonfires on the roof is a cultural difference, but identity theft is not. Hema, I don't see that underpaying the consular staff should result in a no-shredding office management system, although I see that it could be all of a piece.

...and getting a U.S visa in Mumbai. Babugiri as practiced by Amreekans. Those guys must max their SAT (sadistic Attitude tests)

Atleast Indian Babus dont mistreat those who come to get Visa. Can whinning Americans here please do something about the staff in your countries counslate in Desi lands.
Thanks

you are a peopleperson who likesgettingthingsdone right and is a bornleader who wants to be ceo by the age of 35.

That was hilarious!
Though you forgot thinksoutofthebox and partofsolution¬ofproblem... (or is it the other way around?)

i think the way the consulate is run depends on which one it is. the SF consulate is small... way out on the burbs of the City (in... like... the Richmond district) and far from the actual business center. there is no parking around and basically you wait in the living room of some house with a bunch of other people with handwritten numbers on scraps of paper.

the consulate in chicago is a totally different animals. it's modernized (electronic signs, an actual business bulding) and from what i understand a major consulate outpost, not just a "station."

that being said, you'd think the US govt would be more vigilant about this at most-- considering all the hype about terrorists faking visas/passports to get into the city. i suppose a terrorist isn't going to fake being the COO of Gap, Inc. but who knows what else was in the box?

oh, and one more thought:

As we see it, the documents are not confidential,” said B.S. Prakash, the consul general.

We all know whose fault it is. These bastards fault.

1/31/07 We will never forget.

This is ridiculous! We are not in INDIA. Someone need to fire and re-hire. I was at the consulate where you pull a number and supposedly wait until they call it.

You've never had to spend an entire day in hell at the INS? Oh wait, you must be Amreekan.

India and it's representatives are definitely on the right path. The United States during the cold war was notorious for dumping things, unshredded (or not incinerated), and the Soviets would pick through the trash and piece things together. It was a treasure trove for them.

So in a giant sweeping conclusion, India is progressing (Using the United States as a model of a large representative and diverse republic)

Hema, I don't see that underpaying the consular staff should result in a no-shredding office management system, although I see that it could be all of a piece

I'm certainly not condoning the SF consulate's document management system (such as it is). My point was more directed to all the complaints here re: the level of customer service you can expect at an Indian consulate. The frustration of being underpaid while having to deal with a lot of desi customers probably does take a toll.

I would add that I've seen a number of desis behave badly at the Indian consulate. They would never behave this badly at a BCIS office...or heck, even at a USPS office. It's almost as if the normal rules of decorum no longer apply.

A big :) to hairy_d #45, Hema #46 and Neale #49
I came back from Indian consulate today (Houston). Their org. skills left much to be desired. But they were trying their best to clear traffic. WITHOUT attitude. Same can't be said about the customers. Downright abusive jerks. Older desis cheerfully bashing India. Bemused but polite firangees watching it all. Finally me and a woman next in line had to tell the haters to shut it. Quite a tamasha.

As we see it, the documents are not confidential,” said B.S. Prakash, the consul general.

there's a difference between confidential and private. something might not be confidential, but i certainly don't want it blowing in the wind on some street corner

Here's a quote:

If innovation involves an aptitude to do things differently, does the Indian mind have it? This is debatable...

I'm certainly not condoning the SF consulate's document management system (such as it is). My point was more directed to all the complaints here re: the level of customer service you can expect at an Indian consulate. The frustration of being underpaid while having to deal with a lot of desi customers probably does take a toll.

would add that I've seen a number of desis behave badly at the Indian consulate. They would never behave this badly at a BCIS office...or heck, even at a USPS office. It's almost as if the normal rules of decorum no longer apply.

No no, I didn't think you were codoning it, and I shall treasure the image of one's channa being served up in one's own passport application. Sure, it must be hell to deal with the Desi Bhais and Behenjis who bring their spittooniest selves to their consular homecomings. I was thinking, though, that just as any operation in Kolkata can hire a separate guy whose specialty and privilege it is just to throw switches three times a day, the consulates could underpay an extra person, if underpay they must - with whatever arcane justification is employed for the purpose- to do nothing but shred all day or even once a week.

On the flip side, it's true that the Amreekan Babus at US consulates are rude and stubborn and hell on wheels when aroused, but they don't treat their own countrymen worse than they treat firangis, and they are pretty damn secretive.

What the Amreekan babus do is irrelevant. As a contrast, the Indian consulate in Singapore is efficient even as it operates from a colonial mansion and has to deal with large numbers of Indian laborers (rather than upper class expats). Numbers there are taken seriously. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most employees there (local and indian) are tamil?

Shodan #57,
I concur with your Houston experience. The Indian Consulate comes to Dallas once a month I think and I went there to get my passport renewed. The staff was SUPER friendly. They went OUT OF THEIR WAY to help atleast me and another person that I know of. I was so pleasantly surprised. GOD bless the staff of Houston Indian consulate.

Heh, I haven't read the rest of the post yet but at the opening line: "Oh, this is too rich" I thought, "Aha, let's see if Siddhartha is the author..."

;)

Yeah, you'd think he'd know the difference, wouldn't you. He's actually got an op-ed in this morning's Hindu, on the subject of, jeepers-creepers, India as a Hub for Innovation.

Here's a quote:

If innovation involves an aptitude to do things differently, does the Indian mind have it? This is debatable...

WRONG .. to say the least .. some people sit in air conditioned offices, read other people's work, think very hard sitting on their armchair, conjure up a world, and start TYPING ...

I used to work to convert grassroots innovations in India into enterprises ... scout for them in villages, slums, remote areas, convert the crude product into a prototype, link its development with design students from IITs, protect the farmer's knowledge (file for patent), disseminate the knowledge and link the person with an interested entrepreneur (and help negotiate a good benefit sharing mechanism). Prakash has a very limited idea of what innovation looks like (probably something like an Apple iphone); but in today's world opinions are a dime a dozen. In fact argumentation has come to 1)how fast you can arrive at an opinion and 2) vigorously defend it (mostly by your expertise of English; evidence works sometimes - but with the covert application of selection)

http://www.sristi.org/Scouting_for_Homegrown_Ingenuity_shailja_niketan.htm

For a start, Prakash should start walking, instead of typing.

Coming back to the alarming news - yeah it is pretty scary for an economy which runs on credit cards, where patriotism is sometimes linked to 'buy, buy, buy'. But what the hell, much identifiable information is likely to be in the hard discs of the e-waste dumped into India.

"Nope, you don't. Welcome home." Takes form and waves me through.

I'd like to get a reception like that someday.

Turning to the material and the management world, our economic and social environment in previous decades may have played a role in limiting the innovative spirit. The controlled economy, the over-regulation, the limits on expansion and scaling up of enterprises had probably affected innovative thinking in business.

From the article by B S Prakash, that chachaji had posted.

It is true ... I have first hand experience of the immense difficulty in building institutions that can harness innovations. The more I experience the US universities, the more I marvel at these extraordinary institutions. I am sorry for the digression, and the tone in my earlier post. Prakash does point out many things rightly.

From the article by B S Prakash, that chachaji had posted.

It is true ... I have first hand experience of the immense difficulty in building institutions that can harness innovations. The more I experience the US universities, the more I marvel at these extraordinary institutions. I am sorry for the digression, and the tone in my earlier post. Prakash does point out many things rightly

Well, even if he makes a few good points in the article, don't apologize too much. It's not like you made fun of his initials or something. It just boggles me that someone like him could fail to pick up on how big a deal the privacy/confidentiality issue is in the zeitgeist.

>"Nope, you don't. Welcome home." Takes form and waves me through.

I'd like to get a reception like that someday.

Deepa, I must say, I was surprised, because the passport guys at JFK and Newark are usually so stony-faced.

The only other place where I've gotten an even warmer welcome was at Dublin airport, after handing in an Irish passport, along with my mother. The man behind the desk stamped them, and handed them back with a broad smile, saying "Welcome back, ladies."

wonder why the consulate would not just pay a mobile shredding company to pick up the stuff. that's what every two bit lawyer does with all their waste

The man behind the desk stamped them, and handed them back with a broad smile, saying "Welcome back, ladies."

filmiholic, i enjoyed your kitten tale, and i know just what you mean about being waved right through: i brought my dog to boston from pakistan in 2002--she was a stray i'd rescued from the streets of islamabad two years earlier, after she'd been injured as a puppy by a hit-and-run driver. after dealing with all the masses of paperwork required to export a live animal from pakistan, i expected that going through customs with a big mutt from pakistan at logan airport six months after 9/11 would be an ordeal. so you can imagine my surprise when no one even glanced at her--but they were very interested in the unopened can of pedigree dog food i'd brought along as a spare. they took it from me and waved us through. i could have had mullah omar in that crate and no one would ever have been the wiser.

Funny how Sid "third world" dhartha aint gotz no prawblem writing "rich" put downs of Indians (sourced from anti-third world mercenaries like the author of the sourced article) but when it comes to Africa or African-American hip-hop, the man gets too emotional to even countenance a critical discsussion! Oh be wary of the dealers in double standards.

Coming back to the alarming news - yeah it is pretty scary for an economy which runs on credit cards, where patriotism is sometimes linked to 'buy, buy, buy'. But what the hell, much identifiable information is likely to be in the hard discs of the e-waste dumped into India.

Naiverealist, I just saw this piece on data security in India. It's a start, but like the proffered reason for Alberto Gonzalez v. Google, they're mostly investigating porn a yet...

Thanks, Amrita for the link. The way things are going, India will go through similar experiences (like the US) in the spheres of economy, work-family balance, corporate governance etc. And India being the repository of all possible problems in the world, US can learn a thing or two in reconciling the melting pot/salad bowl, Spanish/English (a miniscule problem compared to India's language problems) debates.

"And I learned that if you want to feel like a celeb, take a small pet in carrier with you around the airport and in your aircraft cabin, and you'll be the centre of attention."
The U.S. still has pretty lenient laws about animal entry, at least of pet type animals. However, England has draconian animal-entry laws. There was a famous case of 60s a film star, Francois Dorleac (her more famous sister is Catherine Deneuve) whose little dog was DESTROYED when she tried to sneak it through Heathrow. Granted, she shouldn't have been sneaking, but the poor pup shouldn't have had to die. I don't understand why the dog was not just quarantined per the law. But apparently, if you tried to sneak an animal, they would destroy it. Very unexpected for such a
canophilic country.

Funny how Sid "third world" dhartha aint gotz no prawblem writing "rich" put downs of Indians (sourced from anti-third world mercenaries like the author of the sourced article) but when it comes to Africa or African-American hip-hop, the man gets too emotional to even countenance a critical discsussion! Oh be wary of the dealers in double standards.

Come and say that to my face, you cowardly, illiterate troll.

We are not in INDIA

Technically embassies and consulates are in India. An US embassy and consulate in India is US soil. So they are governed by their laws. India does not have any privacy legislation, so they can legally dispose any thing including SSN.

"The man behind the desk stamped them, and handed them back with a broad smile, saying "Welcome back, ladies"

And thats what happens to us whenever we return to the US most of the time in Los Angeles with our US Passports.
On the other hand I have to travel to India on business twice a year and every time I am about to land in Delhi, I tense up with the feeling that anything can happen at the immigration desk - you never know what the babu with the finger up his nose constantly looking at you and back to the passport photo and back to you might be conjuring up. I have experienced many instances where they have tried a shake down both while entering and happily leaving but when I shout back at them in english, they back off. But I have seen Indian workers coming back home from the middle east always get the third degree. With a US passport, even a brown will be met with a smile and a "Welcome Home" but not in India!!

So much BS! So many desi - and all so indignant.
1. You are the losers who immigrated to india - like rats from what you considered a sinking ship. ( Oh what delicious irony that your jobs.. hmm.. java.. database... oracle..) will come to india.. and you will be left in US with your green card :)

2. Most of your data is freely available. Check out Zabasearch.com. Not just your current address, but you last 10 years worth of addresses are there, so is your birthdate etc.

3. Hmm. Hope you equally mad when choicepoint (and fidelity, and citibank) all had data leaks. Oh, I am sorry, you did not did you. So I guess you get mad only with Indian officials 'cos you feel you are better. In the US - you are like scared, second class puppies. You kiss the immigration officer's feet - and keep to yourself!

Have any of you whiners ever spent a whole day at any of the US Consulates in India? Have you experienced the humiliation meted out by boorish consular 'officers' to students, business travellers, old couples waiting for months for that appointment to visit their children in your country? Have you ever experienced what it feels like to leave every shred of dignity behind and be barked at by jerks who think it's their divine right as Americans to be as rude, insensitive and obnoxious as possible?
Maybe you should make that effort, take some feedback from the thousands of visa applicants to your nation's consulates. Maybe then comments like "We are not in INDIA" can be put into some perspective.

Subhadeep

And do you know why we Indians are treated like that – it’s not because of our brown skin or our accent – it’s because we do not tell the truth. There maybe a lot of money pouring into India but culturally we have gone bankrupt. We spend all our time trying to be someone we are not. We ape the West, we copy most of their movies at bollywood, today all our hindi hits are mixed with English words and scantily clad whores dancing around, we prefer being seen in the local McDonald or another western fast food joint and if we meet a fellow Indian on the streets of Delhi, we do not want to put our cards on the table. We are so used to not giving a straight answer that it’s become our nature to act shady. People from the West find this irritating and if this American does not treat you with respect it is because 90 % of the visa applicants he sees daily do not give him a straight answer. And this is how other European Embassies look at us too.