"The lovers have mistaken Shiv Sainiks to be the heart-breakers. We permanently unite the hearts…"
Scary how these people speak with forked tongues. The words say 'we are here to help' but between the lines the threat is 'we'll break your legs'.
This is what india has come to ...

holy crap - this is great if you really want to get married but are scared of your parents - now you have the government on your side! ha ha.

Well, not the state, but a mob of activists, yes. And if you don't want to get married, you have women with lathis and the non-Hindu loophole on your side. Either way, it'll mean more sales of Bangalore roses for sure.

Bangalore has always been famous for flowers. Nothing new, except that perhaps now they export a lot more.

The Shiv Sena's anti-Valentine's Day moral police tactics have spread, sadly, not only are they more active in Madhya Pradesh these days but even in good old atheist-Dravidian Tamil Nadu there's a copycat moral police brigade. Just goes to show it's not about religious-secular so much as plain old meanspirited bullies.

Whats so Hindu about getting married in a park on Valentines Day?

Check this out - as usual, our Sainik bhais have more in common with Saudi fundies than anything else - the mutawwa' are going to be out in force to stop celebration of this dissolute Western custom (and yes, sales of red roses are through the roof).

For being such a senti and damn romantic-head-in-the-clouds movie nation (this includes Bollywood, Tamil, Telegu, etc, etc), I find it somewhat ironic that Valentine's isnt celebrated with just a little more gusto in India. Then again I find the holiday somewhat sickening here in the States too...but India is following suit with having the day dominated under the green thumb of florists.

If it’s one completely unnecessary festival Indians have to import, why can’t it be Halloween? Dark night, dogs howling in distance, eeveel costumes. Oh the romance. Better selection of candy too.

Right wing communal extremism at its sophisticated best. Wonder if they would host me a dinner after getting me remarried in case I went with someone who was my wife...

Oh man, this is rich. Cheers to the aunties with lathis. Fight the good fight. A momentary loss of testosterone, but it's all really cute. Okay, testosterone back. Now to go rip out some chest hair...

the RSM has decided to form baton-wielding groups of women to dissuade Bajrang Dal activists from disturbing lovers Wednesday on the Valentine’s Day

Would have loved the sight of some baton-wielding ladies having a go at those Shiv Sainiks. I honestly would never dare touch any of them (pussy me), but they are secure in their womanhood.

Funny, the things we have to leave to the ladies now.

This is a pretty awesome example of female empowerment though. An excellent blow for the Millenium Development Goals!

Actually, this is pretty funny. Aunties with lathis fending off Shiv Sena monkeys. I am tempted to go back to Bombay next year and sit in a park with my wife, so I can watch some of the fun. I wonder if the Aunties will drive away the hijras while they are in guard.

I’d like to cheer these people for taking on the saffron clowns, but the cynic in me smells realpolitik.
NSUI and NCP are Kangressi people. Don’t know about RSM.
And Sawarna Samaj Party? If I’m not mistaken, Sawarna means upper caste.

This just proves Shiv Sena knows jack sh!t about Indian culture. Everybody know you do not mess withaunties with lahtis!

Surprise!

Another post by Ennis in which he unfairly rags on defenders of Hinduvta.

Sawarna means upper caste.

No.

Sawarna = Improvement.

Shiv Sena has to keep themselves viable. Right now, they have huge crisis since party top brass is split, even the party.

Indian firms have exported a record 100 million stems of roses this year … Bangalore’s unique climate — cool Decembers with mild sunshine — earned for it a reputation in red roses that South of France has for fine wine.. [Link]

For the sad angle to this record business, check this out. It's ironical that the title of this SM post fits the rediff article too. :(

They should use the Sena as a plot device to "wrap up" failing crappy romantic comedy series. If you need to resolve some on again/off again nonsense that the TV viewing public has lost interest in, just send the unwitting couple to be to Mumbai on some work related pretext. Some felonious looking sainik with handlebar moustache jumps out from an alley, shouts "No luv marriage for you !" and knocks their heads together. True love blooms as they start over again, previous wrongs forgotten in a haze of concussive amnesia. Deus ex machina....

Another post by Ennis in which he unfairly rags on defenders of Hinduvta.

Savarna does mean upper caste, more specifically it refers to the twice-born castes. I suppose this group formed in oppostion to the Bahujan Samaj & other similar parties.

NCP is a breakaway from the Congress and has basically tried to outdo the Sena in cultural/moral policing in Bombay (many former Sena leaders joined it). NSUI is the Congress-affiliated student group. Shame on them for adopting Bajrang Dal tactics.

Louiecypher - LOL!

Wait, actually that's not right - Savarna = caste hindus, as opposed to those outside the caste system, i.e. untouchable. I think it's generally used in the same sense as upper caste though.

Right now, they have huge crisis since party top brass is split, even the party.

nah - i dont think the party is facing any crisis. if by the split you are referring to the navnirman sena, then it has had little affect on the sena. and also considering ss just swept the polls along with BJP...

Maybe this is OT, but I'm curious Al Mujahid: how do you define hindutva? I mean for yourself, not literally :)

the ss has some extreme views - such as their stance on valentine's day (pretty silly really)... but in the mean time the party couple with middle-ground hindutva activists (such as most of BJP) can do wonders for india.

although i am not a mumbaikar, i know enough to be certain that mumbai would not be the same if it not for the sena - their presence is a necessary one for mumbai

AMD, I apologize if I'm missing some sarcasm here, but... seriously?

What's the ACLU's position on forced marriage?

AMD, I apologize if I'm missing some sarcasm here, but... seriously?

I think he was referring to this.

The Shiv Sena's anti-Valentine's Day moral police tactics have spread, sadly, not only are they more active in Madhya Pradesh these days but even in good old atheist-Dravidian Tamil Nadu there's a copycat moral police brigade. Just goes to show it's not about religious-secular so much as plain old meanspirited bullies.

DMK atheism is political posturing. In practice, many leaders are fervently Hindu, e.g. Karunanidhi, who just felicitated Sai Baba, though they preference non-Brahamana sants and sadhus.

The PMK is a Vaniyar caste party. Ramadoss, its leader, once agitated for a Vaniyar state a few years ago. They also agitated against Khushboo, a Tamil actress, who said pre-marital sex was OK. They viewed it as an assault on "Tamil culture."

In truth, none of these outfits has made a dent in Valentine's Day celebrations, which is even spreading to the hinterland.

Shiv Sena has to keep themselves viable. Right now, they have huge crisis since party top brass is split, even the party.

No. The Shiv Sena just won the Mumbai municpal elections in a landslide over Kangress et. al. I wonder why this little "show of stregnth" ? Silly...

I think he was referring to this.

d'oh :(

Kush,
Sawarna is a user friendly term for upper caste in Maharashtra.
Varna = skin tone / caste
Varnabhed = casteism

MP was under Maratha rule long time ago so it's always possible that their use of Sawarna is not all that innocent.

I had thought that Bangalore was a cold hearted city, named after boiled beans, with only 0s and 1s running through it’s veins, but I was wrong:

Indian firms have exported a record 100 million stems of roses this year

Of Valentine's Day and child labour

The above is a link to a story in rediff about how childlabor is used to produce the flowers for valentine's day in bangalore-tamil nadu border - a new platform for sainik anti-valentine advocacy perhaps..

Shodan,

Thanks.

I did not knew the Maharasthra context for Swarana. I googled and your are right, they cater to higher caste vote bank.

Maybe this is OT, but I'm curious Al Mujahid: how do you define hindutva? I mean for yourself, not literally :)

Hinduvta = Propagation of an extremist variety of Hindu nationalism.

AM, that's what I thought. I was trying to figure out if you were being sarcastic.

i know enough to be certain that mumbai would not be the same if it not for the sena - their presence is a necessary one for mumbai

Ennis paji,
What is it? Did some Hindu lass or lad break your dil?
Why the hatred, my brother?

What an asshole.

youareafineonetotalk,

people only come here to watch these clowns talk sex. no need to take these fools too seriously.

people only come here to watch these clowns talk sex. no need to take these fools too seriously.

But still he comes here and soils himself over it. What a pair of assholes.

>> I’m sure they will get a lot of calls for their service too — “Quickly! Send 4 or 5 women to the park by the IIT men’s hostel! There are couples being oppressed by the RSS!” Who knew that crying wolf was a great way to meet women?

Boss, somethings being done by the Shiv Sena, why drag in the RSS ?

people only come here to watch these clowns talk sex.

somethings being done by the Shiv Sena, why drag in the RSS ?

lol...this is so true - a lot of people equate the two together when in fact the sena is a much more radical organization than rss even remotely is

as a Maharashtrian Mumbaikar, I am intrigued. Could you eleborate?

simply put - they very well counter the other radical groups present in mumbai...

somethings being done by the Shiv Sena, why drag in the RSS ?

Guilty as charged. It must have been Freudian on my part ... I've fixed it now.

they very well counter the other radical groups present in mumbai

Re: Shiv Sena

In late 60's labour unions were very strong in Mumbai. Congress created Sena to nullify unions. Of course the Frankenstein eventually bit its creator in the ass.
They started as sons of soil movement and exploited the Maharashtrian insecurities about pardesis very well. Their vada pav initiatives didn't do jack for poor Maharashtrians.

In 70's Thakeray supported Indira Gandhi's emergency. Probably the blackest period in post-independence Indian history.

For a long time, Indian left has given a free pass to Sena's Muslim dopplegangers. Sena talks a good game for people disgusted by this, and nothing more.
Hindutva reaped rich dividends for Sena, so now they're playing that game.

In 90s Thakeray's son used to own a dance bar called Drum Beat. Naach, gaana, sharab etc. I know of a few Thakeryaylings who study at Bombay Scottish School. So much for defending Hindu / Indian culture.

BTW, I haven't miss-spelled the Tigger's name. He fashioned his name after William Makepeace Thackeray.

Jain man, no trollery. Stay on topic, please.

Shiv Sena has done a lot of good and a lot of bad for mumbai, no different than any other Political/Religious/Media organization. They should focus on exporting the 'raksha-bandhan' day rather than banning valentines day, IMHO.

Unlike MP, in Bombay the Shiv Sena has promised to behave this year. Because they won, and election are synonymous with destroying others' property.

They should focus on exporting the 'raksha-bandhan' day rather than banning valentines day, IMHO.

Yes, but those who cannot tolerate the intrusion of the market tend to be reactive. They need to be proactive. A reactive response is often labeled as ‘regional chauvinism’. The challenge is to return smiles with even broader smiles.

Btw, Jessica Hagy has nice description of Valentine's Day. He he he.

It is difficult to compete with the market. Look in your own family. Wearing a sari or a kurta needs 'justification' - isn't it? The 'norm' seeps in gradually, when you are not looking. :) But such alertness can only suffocate.

Tagore had an answer: ‘Whatever we understand and enjoy in human products instantly becomes ours, wherever they might have their origin.’

Our aesthetic and sense of beauty is hard to destroy. We recognize it instantly, and make it our own. And if you keep looking, there's a lot of beauty in what we learn from our elders. Cultivate your eyes and ears; train you senses to catch the aesthetic.

Perhaps the answer is in entrepreneurship. In today’s world, it is not enough to hold your own with a cool demeanor. The entrepreneurial zeal of the market will not let you rest, and zeal has to be dealt with zeal. If you refuse to join in the bandwagon, the entrepreneur has to be locally responsive.

There's a need to set up private local language schools all over Karnataka, West Bengal, Maharashtra, Assam ... A need to set up Yoga schools all over India. Let the consumer decide whether they want to do suryanamaskar or not. If the market wants, it's all fine then. Because the market is ‘natural’.

Perhaps the answer is in entrepreneurship. In today’s world, it is not enough to hold your own with a cool demeanor. The entrepreneurial zeal of the market will not let you rest, and zeal has to be dealt with zeal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think zeal can be dealt with zeal only if there is a level playing field. The marketing machinery of large companies will bulldoze any local voice in any country. When a voice cannot compete faily in an unfair World they have to resort to other tactics (Doha talks come to mind).

Haha, this is whole things is a bit hilarious.. but let me get serious for a moment:

The Shiv Sena nutjobs have been good for Bombay?! Ok, let's run through a bit of history shall we? In the 50s and 60s, inspired by Bal Thackeray, it was attacks against South Indian migrants and restaurants in areas like Matunga and Sion. Let's ignore the fact that Bombay (not Mumbai!) has *never* been a Marathi city, but a cosmopolitan one. It's raison d'etre is British/Portuguese and commercial in nature, and with Parsis, Jews, South Indians, Gujaratis and people from all over the subcontinent it's success (such as it was..) has been one of ingenuity and entreprenurial bon vivance over communalism. So, now we're in the 70s and 80s.. what to do.. I've got it, let's attack the Muslims! They're even more different than the South Indians and *they're* the cause of all your problems, young Maharashtrian man who has just migrated to the city!

Ignoring their involvement with the mob, the sex trade and everything in between, this latest anti-modernism/anti-Western spin is simply a continuation of the idiocy of Shiv Sena, that also manifested itself in the renaming of Bombay to Mumbai. As a South Indian born in Bombay nothing gets me ticked off more than these idiots. I suggest the media and the public do what was done to the KKK in the 1940s: http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/07.02.98/comics-9826.html -- Mock them! The Congress and other parties may be corrupt and may pander and scapegoat occassionally, but nothing like the vicious virulence of the Shiv Sena. I hope those women beat up the Sainiks :)

While amchi mumbai was a silly movement, you must have never been stuck in traffic on Mohammed Ali road when the roads are blocked during prayers. Maybe you were never woken by loudspeakers early in the morning.

While Congress appeased their vote-bank, Shiv Sena addressed the issue. Now let's get back to the topic.

the traditional indian culture is dying and a whole lot of karnas and dushasanas and other pests are taking great pleasure in getting a few more stabs in before the last breath is let out.

systemized rape of hindu womem during the mughal raj gets relabeled as syncretism. british presence in mumbai gets equated with gujaratis and south indians. it\'s entire bundles of bogeymans piled on top of another, ad nauseum ...

let\'s just rename mumbai as bollycrapwood and get it all over with!! can\'t wait for thanksgiving to come to india. let\'s celebrate the victory of the white man over those honest injuns. why not!!

but some schmuck not wanting walmart to come to his town is brave and upright. i love it.

Traditional Indian culture is dying? Really? Visit Madras during the Music Season and watch as young performers make breakthrough performances every year. Or go to Cleveland and check out the ever-competitive Thyagarja Festival where young Indo-Americans and Canadians (among others) perform and wow the audiences, interpreting and performing with joy Carnatic Music -- a very Indian tradition. There are of course arguments and concerns about the apparent (and I say apparent) devolution of Indian culture. But such an analysis is far too glib and facile, and one often undertaken by those advancing the Hindutva cause. Bollywood *is* Indian culture, like it or not. It embodies the latest manifestation of the traditional musical plays and artforms prevalent in villages across India. India's evolving, there's a lot of trash, sure.

But, ultimately, the market that is the Indian people will decide what to partake and what not to. To attempt to crudely delineate what is and isn't Indian as the Hindutva-types continue to do is a disservice to democracy and classical liberalism -- two tenets that have gained a lot of currency in India, and are as Indian as they are Western now.

On the issue of the Shiv Sena -- is their purported ability to clear up traffic snarls worth the virulent ideological baggage they bring with them? Is fomenting violence against minorities (different ones in different eras) ok, as long as the muezzin's call to prayer doesn't bother you? The Shiv Sena too consistently appeases and plays to its own votebank. I've also frankly been plenty inconvenienced by all their bloody bandhs, thank you very much.

Thunderweather! It looks like no matter which extremist group gets the upper hand, in the longrun Moooo-mbai is ckuffed!

Dont forget another enemy of V-Day - The Communists, of course!

the students' wing of the Communist Party of India-Marxist and the Sanskriti Bachao Samiti organization, which opposes Western cultural influences.... Students Federation of India leader Sanjay Madhav said "unsocial elements" will not be allowed to "distort" Indian values.[Link]

WTF is Communism - an Eastern philosophy? Morons!

regards,
Aninda

I'm just curious why whenever the topic of military spending comes up folks always spew the usual "but they should give to the poor..." diatribe yet no one points out the time & energy wasted on Valentine's day - oh yeah, as if India needs more babies or HIV. If ordinary citizens were giving to charities instead of buying luxury items for their valentine's, or were donating their time to teach illiterates to read and write instead of cuddling a lover beneath a canopy, then I can understand all the furor over the Indian Govt.'s valentine gifts to the Army, missiles.

“Quickly! Send 4 or 5 women to the park by the IIT men’s hostel! There are couples being oppressed by the RSS Shiv Sena!” Who knew that crying wolf was a great way to meet women?

Psst - Its statistically very unlikely that 4 or 5 guys in any IIT at a particular time will have girlfriends :)

yeah, pakistanis and filipinos and jamaicans also have great cuisine and great poetry. but they do not have any civilizational standing comparable to india. they are merely extensions of arabia and america. why should we support the same type of destruction of local diversity in india?

let me guess - islam and christianity are very diverse cultures with many sects and divisions in between them. never mind that they have brutally murdered off the local gods and cultures of every continent benighted by them - north america, south america, phillipines, korea, indonesia, pakistan, bangladesh, persia, africa. no need for hindus to be wary, of course. it's all in our heads.

here's a quote from another site

[quote]My personal feeling is that Hindu minded people do not oppose it
because it is foreign. They oppose it because these symbolic days
have started occupying a space in Hindu life which should have been
occupied by our own festivals. Since our own festivals have been
banished from the lives and replaced by these borrowed ones, it
alineates the population from within. That I think is the main reason
of the opposition.[/quote]

Jain Man on February 13, 2007 06:18 PM · Direct link

While amchi mumbai was a silly movement, you must have never been stuck in traffic on Mohammed Ali road when the roads are blocked during prayers. Maybe you were never woken by loudspeakers early in the morning. While Congress appeased their vote-bank, Shiv Sena addressed the issue.

Yeah, and I was also stuck in the roads in Mumbai during the Ganesh festival and have been woken up far too frequently by blazing loudspeakers playing devotional Hindu music. Who is taking care of these issues ? Oh they are Hindu things, so not really issues, right ?

Check out this BBC interpretation of why Valentine's Day has taken off in India:

Valentine's Day is a relatively new concept in India but it has grown in significance in the past five years.

As India's economy booms, many young women have found that financial independence brings with it freedom of choice when it comes to relationships.

In the past, the key decision on who a woman would marry was usually made by her parents.

Now though, many professional and educated women follow their own hearts when it comes to romance and young men have discovered that Valentine's Day offers a useful opportunity to lure the girls their way.

Um - why does everything have to be about tying together the sexy themes of growth/globalisation/women...it's taken off because young people all round have more disposable income and freedom, IMO.

Happy day of lowwww, everyone.

My personal feeling is that Hindu minded people do not oppose it because it is foreign. They oppose it because these symbolic days have started occupying a space in Hindu life which should have been occupied by our own festivals. Since our own festivals have been banished from the lives and replaced by these borrowed ones, it alineates the population from within. That I think is the main reason of the opposition.

But why beat up college kids over the issue? Do you find nothing wrong with that? So a culture where 20 year olds are beaten on the streets for next to nothing is acceptable, but a culture that celebrates Valentine's day is not?

And I am sure when you point the broken noses of these poor kids in the direction of Indian culture, they will immediately sniff the folly of their ways. Or maybe not. Maybe we should follow them home to make sure they are not upto something when mummy-daddy are not around.

This is nothing new, they do it each year, some remote corner where Shiv Sena has no presence, some vague guys would pop up and claim to be Sainiks and damage a card shop or harrass couples to get their name in the news.

This is nothing new, they do it each year, some remote corner where Shiv Sena has no presence, some vague guys would pop up and claim to be Sainiks and damage a card shop

If there were blogs in the 10th century I bet you'd read people bitching about how "traditional Indian society" was dying.

It's almost as though culture is always in flux or something. Or like Indian culture is strong enough to absorb "firang" elements and thrive. But that's crazy talk...

Also, it's the first year that I know of that there has been a counter mobilization.

Meanwhile, a feminist-separitist Mohammedan outfit calling itself FASE has "appealed" to the denizens of Kashmir Valley not to get their lovey-dovey on this V-Day:

Say no to V-Day: FASE

Srinagar: The Forum against Social Evils (FASE) has appealed the people of Kashmir to stay away from celebrating Valentine’s Day.A FASE statement issued here Thursday said, "We appeal Muslim Ummah to refrain from celebrating the day and launch a campaign against those who advocate its celebration." The FASE has also appealed the shopkeepers who sell greeting cards on this occasion that they should stop selling the cards as it, according to them, results in the "moral degradation and immorality."They have expressed anguish over different mobile companies who do a brisk business by encouraging the trend of sending messages on the occasion. The forum has warned the Valley youth that if it came across their participation in any programme on the occasion of Valentines Day, they will take action against the same. link

Photo here

A welcome development. But a lot of them are just settling score w/ saffron thugs. It's not altruism. Just politics business as ususal.

A more noble counter-measure is to have the sex today, all day.

It's almost as though culture is always in flux or something. Or like Indian culture is strong enough to absorb "firang" elements and thrive. But that's crazy talk...

Aye Neale, I agree with you, but people are entitled to their opinions. I do not have a problem with that. I find V-day stupid and rather mercenary myself, and remember fondly a time when 14 Feb passed in India and no one noticed. But disagreement does not sanction violence.

I mean they look for couples on V-day, and then make the girl tie a rakhi on the guy's wrist (after appropriately roughing up the guy of course). How ridiculous is that? What is this, reverse-incest? Is this gunda-gardi and insult to raksha-bandhan going to save Indian culture?

If this is Plan A to save Indian culture, I shudder to think what Plan B is.

Neal (with no e), sorry, I got your name wrong in #68.

What they need to do is pass out free red or pink colored condoms to the couples on this day instead of performing impromptu weddings.

I don't have any problem with people expressing that they dislike Western influence. I think that's all part of the healthy process of cultural adaptation. It's far more healthy to be in a society that is thinking very carefully of which elements they want to adopt, which to adapt, and which to keep out at all costs than to be in a society which allows itself to be completely subsumed. But when it gets to the point that you're using violence to enforce that process, I get a bit uncomfortable.

yaa, Shivratri passed without a peep for the abcd whiteysucks on sepiamutiny.

What is Shivratri? What should I peep then? Or is it something for my peeps?