February 22, 2007
Like SkinIssues
Sonny Suchdev, of the band Outernational, has a nice personal essay up at RaceWire, the blog for the magazine Colorlines (thanks, Dave).
It’s a story describing an experience that many Sikh guys have had — having the dastaar (or pagri, or turban) pulled off as someone’s idea of a joke:
I’m riding the F train like usual in Brooklyn when dozens of kids – perhaps in junior high – get in my subway car on their way home from school. The train is bustling with adolescent energy.
As the train stops at 4th Avenue, I hear a boy yell “Give me that!” as he and his friends run out the train door. The next thing I realize, my dastar has been yanked completely off my head. My uncovered joora dangles, and I am in complete and utter shock. Everyone on the train is staring at me. Other kids from the school are both laughing and shaking their heads in disbelief. Not knowing how to react, I stand up quickly, look out the doors of the train car and see a group of young boys of color running down the stairs. Startled and confused, I pick it up my dastar from the grimy platform and get back in the train. (link)
The part that I found most thought-provoking was the following:
I get off at Smith and 9th Street with my dirty dastar in my hands, not knowing what to do. My eyes fill with tears immediately. I feel naked and exposed, so small, so humiliated, and so so alone… . I get to a corner of the platform and break down in despair, remembering fifth grade vividly, feeling so angry and exhausted from living in this country. The twenty something years of this shit is going through me at once – the slurs, the obnoxious stares, the go back to your countries, the threats, the towel/rag/tomato/condom/tumor heads, all of it. But somehow pulling off my turban hurts more than anything. Maybe it’s the symbolism of my identity wrapped up in this one piece of cloth that, like my brown skin, I wear everyday.(link)
Skin is a good metaphor in one sense, though the sense of shame entailed in this type of experience is actually more like having a private part of your body exposed — in other words, it’s like being forcibly disrobed. Part of what makes it complicated is the fact that the perpetrators generally don’t know the symbolism of the turban, though they definitely know that what they are doing is going to result in humiliation. But maybe the sense of hurt Sonny is talking about is not about symbolism or Sikh theology, but about the more contemporary concept of “identity”: this turban, irrespective of why I wear it, is who I am. It’s what I wear every day; it’s what makes me, me. It’s about having that sense of self dismantled and disrespected for no apparent reason — for someone’s idea of a joke.
I think this story, while definitely unique in some ways to the Sikh experience, is an experience that other people who are visibly marked as different (either for ethno/religious reasons or for any other reason) can also identify with. Also, I wonder if being vulnerable in this way is at least partially analogous to the way the threat of sexual harassment can affect women. (Note the phrase “partially analogous” — as opposed to “exactly similar”)
amardeep on February 22, 2007 02:44 PM in Identity, Issues, Religion · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
At some basic level, most Americans don't seem to realise that the Sikh turban is not a hat. I remember a conservative, big-shot prof at my elite American undergraduate institution who required students to take off their hats in class asking a Sikh boy to remove his turban. Of course he had no idea how offensive it was to say that to a Sikh, but I was also really shocked at that kind of ignorance in someone of his education. I'm guessing those kids who tore off the writer's turban were acting in part out of bigotry and in part out of a misguided sense that this was just horseplay. These kids haven't been raised with the sense of what the pagdi means for Sikhs and the historical meanings of forcibly removing pagdis, but you still have to wonder if they'd be so cavalier with, say, a yarmulke.
I think the parallel with sexual assault is a good one.
Obviously I don't understand the humiliation of having the turban ripped off, but I understand the humiliation of being racially abused and threatened by a gang in public whilst people look on and do nothing, and I have never and will never forget that feeling.
Somewhat tangentially related, has anyone here seen this film?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0867599/
Amardeep,
Thanks for posting on this one. I saw it in the news tab and when I read it, I nearly cried. The feelings that develop from the infliction of a cruel indignity are sometimes the hardest to articulate and I think that Sonny portrayed it quite well.
I think also, at it's most basic interpretation, it is about the destruction/flagrant disrespect of something that is cherished. I don't mean that he cherishes the cloth itself, but that he cherishes something about wearing it. It could be cultural/religious identity and pride, the fact that he is continuing a tradition probably followed by members of his family. It could be that it feels like a part of him because he has worn it his whole life. The point is that something that is connected to him was ripped away and devalued by other people.
When compared to sexual harassment, in my opinion, it does have similar notes in that there is some kind of violation (it was literally ripped off his head) and he was treated as though he did not matter. When a person is mistreated in any way (be it sexual harassment, bullying, racism, etc) he/she is treated as "less than" the person doing the harassing. I think the heartwrenching part of these experiences is when a person who is victimized longs to undo the event but is completely powerless to do so.
I find interesting the parallels between these two lines:
and
.
How sad. Bon courage, Sonny.
I sympathize with him because I went through similar incidents. But if you think through it is probably more out of ignorance than out of racist attitude. But you can't expect adolescents to learn about the so many different cultures of immigrants that come to NY. I am sure they treated likewise the yarmulke wearing Jews in first part of 20th century but as Jews became main stream those incidents have lessened as people knew more about them. I think calling names or physical abuse is much more serious because it is racial hatred than ignorance.
But of course whatever the reason may be that prompted this incident, one would feel their identity violated.
Most probably my reaction would be the same. But to answer that question of Why? Kids are cruel (unintentionally). Why do kids bully other kids? It is the same. Why do geeks or nerds get called all sorts of names in school? How is this any different? For kids conformance is the thing. They will tease any one out of the main stream unless they are sensitized to them and such situations.
I think the allusions to more cruel things in the essay are unwarranted in this case as this incident and others are not comparable. This incident is more out of ignorance and others are racism and bigotry.
The understanding of sikhism in the United States is not the same as in Canada or England due to the fact they make up alot smaller % of the population. America has about 500,000 sikhs compare to 400,000 each both in England and in Canada, but they have 10 times the population of Canada and 5 times the population of England.
Also from what I've seen in both Canada and in England the % of sikh's who wear turbans is alot higher then in the United States. I have 11 male 1st cousins in California[ 8 of them were born and raised in India] who are between the age of 27-44 and none of them wear turbans. Only 2 of my 5 uncles in California wear turbans, but they only started wearing them when they started losing there hair.
In Canada I have many relatives who wear turbins including many who born and raised in Canada and have had one for there whole life.
Sikh's in the United States have to deal with alot more misunderstanding of there religon then they do in Canada.
Right, so a Sikh guy having his patka ripped off is not comparable to any other kind of racist assault which may be motivated by racism and bigotry? And you gauge this exactly how? Talking about how kids are cruel is missing the point --- most kids are not cruel and know don't act like that because they know it's wrong, so it's not just 'the norm' and therefore excusable. If a kid walked up to your mum and ripped the bindi off her forehead how would you be able to differentiate it from simple 'innocent' high jinx and racist spitefulness? I just don't buy your reckoning at all.
Who says that these two are mutually exclusive?
If 14 guys that had visual resemblence to Bill gates flew planes into the twin towers, maybe a comparison would be in order. By no means are the racist attacks justified, but this is really a silly comparison to make.
It is easier to correct a kid who did this out of ignorance than some one who did this out of racism and bigotry. So later is much more serious issue than the former. But as I said in my previous post my initial reaction would be same if he did it out of ignorance or out of racism. But it is important to distinguish which is which.
Is it possible that this kid this out of racism, yeah it is probable but ignorance is more probable in my opinion. I could be wrong though.
Most kids are not cruel (my experience has been different though :)) if they can get away with it. But it is norm for bullies to tease others.
I think,in my 6-7 years of living in the white mans 'melting pot', I have been verbally racially abused maybe 2-3 times and what I would call minor incidents in perspective. The worst and most public was a little after 9/11 when this african american dude started telling me 'Go back to Afghanistan, you know you are the new ni##ers' in front of a whole bus of drunk University students. Sure this was a distressing incident but over the years I had started believing that I understand the dynamics of racism now and that I dont care as much about it. I guess we could call it a defense mechanism, but in my mind now I dismiss racial abuse as rantings of a closed minded or frustated or non self confident soul and not worth thinking about. Which basically means I am calm within minutes of a racial abuse because I have enough self belief to not feel distressed about it and usually forget about it very soon.
Interestingly however, while reading through Sonnys experience. before I started reading or even as the post was building up to the crux, in my head I was expecting to feel sorry and think 'ok, he had to deal with some morons'. More so, this was done by a kid probably out of ignorance which makes it even more explainable. But by the time I finished reading it, I felt furious, distressed and I felt I could totally empathize with what this guy went through and as if my self belief and my explanations to myself about what racism is all about is not worth a dime. Little confusing!Maybe I was just fooling myself when I told myself I know how to deal with racism. But then what explain my own calmness when I have been personally racially abused, but this reaction when this dude got abused. Any shrinks in the house?
I'm no shrink Ardy, all I know is that it's good to do as you've done: to tell it the way it happened. Our reactions are not consistent, the pain is never the same. What doesn't impress you today could be a shock to the system tomorrow.
That's why this battle isn't over.
Previous post on Sonny and outernational.
Sonny's wearing a patka. It's tied pretty tight around his head so to take it off requires a fair amount of intrusion and grabbing. It's not just a hat you can knock off by accident, so it was clearly a very physical act on the part of the perpetrators. By your own description, that's more likely to be racial hatred.
I have heard the same sentiment of humiliation and despair from hijabi women on their hijab being yanked off by haters. As I have said earlier, the maximum shit that is inflicted on a group in public in the post 9-11 world is on sikh men with turbans and Muslim women with hijabs.
Sonny has actually written a very moving post. Very sad indeed.
I find this whole business of demonizing every little incident as racist is just a little out of touch with reality and being too sensitive. Indians are the new blacks.
Jezz, if you grew up as a Sikh in post 1984 riots in India, you would know what racism means. I have personally witnessed sikh kids being tormented at school and this was years after 1984. At the very least, in the western world, I have a strong justice system that can bring people who act in a racist manner towards me to court.
It doesn't lessen what this guy went through, which was terrible, but it doesn't make the whole western world racist. It was stupid kids who should be punished for what they did, and not made an example of.
I find this whole business of demonizing every little incident as racist is just a little out of touch with reality and being too sensitive. Indians are the new blacks.
Troll alert.
Another Hindu bashing-post from Amardeep. No surprises here. @=)
Seriously, much thanks to Sonny for honestly sharing his painful tale and to the prof. for the excellent analysis. I'm glad you included the universal applicability of this story; I don't believe Sonny was targeted because he was an adherent of his Sikh faith, rather he was immediately judged as a member of some vague and amorphous outgroup with foreign (and therefore inferior) views and beliefs and thus irreconcilable to what is accepted as normal/American/etc. The act of snatching off his dastaar to me is more than someone's idea of a joke: it's an act of physical and psychological subjugation bent on reminding someone conspicuously different of their inferiority in the eyes of those who view themselves as powerful and justified in their action. In this case, black youth targeted a Sikh man, but the dynamic is nonetheless the same when a white person refers to a Chinese person by a slur or a husband beats his wife. I'm not claiming to know whether this attack was motivated more by racism than general ignorance, just that the vulnerability inherent in being marked or just perceived as different or foreign can affect all of us, regardless of how outwardly "assimililated" or "integrated" to a certain culture and its mores we may claim to be. Keep on fighting the good fight, Sonny.
Mr. K, Ennis, AMD: well put.
I knew it, Sonny's incident was just another act of black on black violence. No surprises here.
(Apropos of nothing, is it "Suchdev" or "Sachdev?" "Sonny" or "Sunny?" I've seen all and don't want you to be further dissociated from your identity @:])
Time for outing myself.
I had forgotten about it but this blog reminded me.
Once in India I had lifted a passing woman's sari pallu off her face, which she was wearing in traditional veil style which is common amongst a certain sub-caste of brahmin wives in that region.
It was at a particularly difficult point in my life when I was feeling boxed in by the local culture, customs and traditions, as well as violated by some of the double standards.
Her pallu-veil represented all that to me, and I did it not to insult her but more to shock the men in the street who observed it. The gesture said, "what if what you do to me daily gets done to one of your own just once".
Silly and immature but it was sort of cathartic in it's own way. I heard some older male shop keepers gasp, and I got a sort of misandrogenistic pleasure from that. Just a small evening of scores. The tip of the iceberg really.
It was nothing, but I got the desired effect from the onlooking patriarchy that I wanted.
Sometime after I felt bad about it (for the woman) but looking back, I don't feel that bad, coz the woman did not act like she was at all offended.
Who knows, maybe I did what she had been wanting to do herself all along?
Dj Drrrty, oops -- it's "Suchdev." I fixed it...
Yeah I reckon you could be right Mistress of Spices. Sonny might have wanted to have his patka ripped off his head violently, thrown on the floor and be humiliated by a gang of thugs in front of total strangers. Or maybe you're just smoking crack.
It sounds like you used her. Your intent to "stick it to the man" does not cancel the fact that you removed her pallu on purpose. Maybe she didn't seem upset because she gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was an accident. The fact that it wasn't makes it seem that your act was meant to devalue her. A "larger purpose" doesn't make it right....just my opinion.
I'm not a shrink, but I think you said it best yourself...when it happens to you, your calmness is a defense mechanism. Racism and sexual harrasment are much easier to deal with when you rationalize them as a power struggle in which you actually have the power, as in your example where the person probably came off as sounding crazy --you remain calm by thinking about how you are sane and how he's just pathetic. It prevents you from wasting emotion on every racist or possibly racist thing that is ever said to you. On the other hand, when it happens to someone else, you, not having lost your empathy or your innate sense of righteous indignation, despite your defense mechanisms, respond emotionally, because it's safe to do so. It's not your life, but you're a good human being who can relate to the pain of others. Also, you're not necessarily emoting in response to what happened to him, but in response to his eloquent description of his own emotions.
I can relate to your experience--sexual harrassment by strangers (or most non strangers even) has pretty much zero effect on me, but I hate hearing about it happening to other people.
I meant to say maybe you're not necessarily etc. not trying to make presumptuous assumptions :)
Red Snaps
Im not comparing the two. I'm sharing my thought processes behind why I did it. I did not rip her pallu off her head entirely. I lifted it from hiding her face. As pallu is the end of a sari, it would be impossible to rip off a pallu without tearing the sari or ripping the whole sari from someone's body.
I admitted above that it was silly and immature.
I still wonder though why some North Indian Hindu brahmin women cover their faces like that? It seems to me like an influence of Islam or something.
Please don't feed the trolls.
my only post 9-11 racial incident happened a few days ago up in harlem. i was walking past a mosque and a group of male black teenagers tryed to frighten me. one kid bumped me and said something. i took off my ipod to hear them but all i heard was "iraq". most of the kids started laughing and one gestured for me to fight. i turned around to high-step it back to the safety of the upper east side but not before i caught the eye of one kid, who looked quite apologetic. i felt sorry for him.
i don't know what to make of it.
Isn't Red Snapper a long time commenter?
As Ennis said, it must have hurt to have the patka removed like that. Its a crime right there.
Sonny says "yanked" - which makes me wince.
Sigh - these kids must have probably gone homeless hunting next.
The kids were muslims?
Even if they weren't, Islam, in one form or another (NOI and splinter groups like 5 Percenters, etc) is quite common amongst New York blacks, often the religion by fault. Even if not, black male youth in the area generally have a favorable to neutral view of Islam and Muslims, rarely hostile in that area. Also, many black people in that area, due to the above mentioned reasons, do not think 9/11 was caused by either Arabs or Muslims.
Religion by default, I meant.
This reminds me of something I heard recently:
Last year, a Sikh teen faked a bias attack and cut off his own hair, because he didn't want to tell his parents that he didn't want to wear the turban anymore. He wanted to "fit in" more, according to what is mainstream. The odd thing is that his high school about 50% Indian, Indo-Carribean, or other South Asian (including many recent immigrants.)
Que escandalo! Dios, ostia joder PG!
I've almost taken the bait a coupla times.
Just say no to trolling.
i don't think so. the mosque looks like it's made up mostly of browns, not NOI types. i don't know if the kids were hanging around there looking to beat up a muslim, but i didn't hang around long enough to find out.
my guess is that's it's mostly a kid thing. i usually get a minor incident every few months when i go up to my gym in harlem. (mostly it's some kid not wanting to get out of the way on the street, like they walk right toward you to force a confrontation). sometimes i go up there in a suit and tie and i never get harrassed, i even sense some respect via the expensive suit. but when i'm in gym clothes i look younger and more thuggish, that's when i get fucked with...like a woman in provocative clothes, to use amardeep's analogy.
probably Sonny Suchdev is a young dude, so it's likely a high-school like teasing incident with a racial/religious twist more than anything else. older people don't get screwed with like that, or if they do it's more obviously racial (i think).
cheers to sonny and and all patka-wearing/turban-wearing boys and men in the west! stay up, indeed!!
i have more to say on this topic, but tomorrow, hopefully.
Race is not choice. Religion is by choice. To equate brown skin to turban is foolish. I was born into one religion(Hindu) and converted to another(Christianity).
I wish I could do the same with my skin color or my sexual preference whenever I feel like.
A Turban or Hizab or whatever are symbols of religion.
Also, a hijabi student from Yemen left ASU one month after 9/11 b/c there were threats in her mail, on the street, etc. I was at that school for a few months and heard her neighbors talking about it.
I think my long time participation here, as well as my personal anecdotes, and now my link to my webpage, is enough to proove I'm not a troll.
If not, then what do you want? My bio-data?
Nikon, I see where you are coming from. Religion can be changed, BUT come on, how many racist/rude/troublemaking people are going to ask a person's religion before harrassing/hitting/judging them? I'm agnostic, but that doesn't mean that I won't have any problems b/c my name is Muslim/Arabic. I think racism is MORE of a problem in the big city, unlike suburbs and mid-sized cities (where I spent most of my life). Sad reality!
What I meant was racism takes on more obvious and violent forms in the big city.
"a group of young boys of color"
"The worst and most public was a little after 9/11 when this african american dude started telling me 'Go back to Afghanistan, you know you are the new ni##ers' in front of a whole bus of drunk University students"
"my only post 9-11 racial incident happened a few days ago up in harlem. i was walking past a mosque and a group of male black teenagers tryed to frighten me. one kid bumped me and said something."
Maybe it's a good idea to do a post on the outsized contribution of African-Americans to racism in this country particularly post 9/11. I can then honestly add several personal anecdotes to support the theory. Trust me I am not a hater, just a keen observer of life on the American street.
Whenever someone white/black said or did something bad to me I always took it to be racism. But as I lived in US longer and talked to other whites/blacks I realized that similar things happened to them also. So from then I tried not to quickly label an incident racism because that would be like crying wolf.
From my reading of the article I thought ignorance is more probable. But if more knowledgeable people disagree with me then I suppose I was incorrect in that assumption.
As an African American woman finding out that it was young boys of color who did this really hurt me to the core.
If the African American youth involved had any inkling of their own history in this country, and how their own people were disrespected by others in similar ways (whether it was acts of racism or plain bullying) they wouldn't dare do such a thing to another human being. Unfortunately, too many people do not know the meaning of the word empathy. Nor do they know the meaning of respect.
I hope Sonny finds some healing in sharing his experience on a blog, but I also hope that he and/or other Sikhs take the time to educate others (especially young people of color) about the symbolism of the turban. Believe me they will accept and understand its significance (its close tie to identity) especially if explained to them in a way that they can relate given their own issues with acceptance, identity, and racism in this country.
Are there any children's books dealing with this subject? Children's books that explain the turban, and how boys are treated when wearing the turban, etc.?
Thanks for your comment, Kali Billi.
BTW, in response to Kalli Billi's question, there are children's books like "The Boy With Long Hair", that aim to educate.
Is this the same Sonny Suchdev who thinks the only thing the world needs a little more of is revolutionary Marxism?
I wont say black people are any more racist than white people. I think when it comes to the whites who harbor discriminatory tendencies, they might not show it as explicitly but are more subtle maybe through their lack of warmth when they interact with you or through some of the subtle questions they can ask about South Asia which may come as curiosity driven but might not always be innocent or ignorance driven. I think history has made the white man a lot more cautious in expressing his racist attitude due to the social taboo. On the other hand, just like some white people, some black people too are racist but because they have always been the color discriminated against, they are more explicit when they express their racism. Plus, I think a lot of these black people who act in a racist manner probably belong to poorer communities and thus did not grow up being as PC as say a suburban white community. My guess is the apparent difference we see is probably more in terms of the ways of expression than the actual difference in sentiment.
And speaking of desi racist attitudes, Barkha Dutt had this interesting article when the Shilpa Shetty incident was at its peak
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1904818,00120001.htm
There are some things that one just does not fuck with, but people just do not understand. Some things are sacred and should remain that way (God, family, religion). Racism results from ignorance and fear. That does not justify any of it but at least explains where it comes from. I was an absolute dick in the 7th grade and I made judgements about people based on race, economic status, etc. I grew a brain sometime in college and now I at least try to be mindful of my actions and thoughts. Fuck, call it liberal white guilt, but you see things a bit differently when you realize that you are not the center of the universe and that despite the outward superficial differences we are all pretty much the same.
Am I right? We all want to fall in love, raise a family, and live in peace. What's so hard about peace, love, and understanding....base, base, death row, what a brother know, peace, peace, love and understanding (Singles reference)
Humanity possesses many positive attributes as well as some evil and negative ones. Racism, ignorance, and oppression are as much universal human attributes as love, kindness, and forgiveness.
In vino veritas. (Yes I'm a bit drunk right about now....)
WTF is up with Piven's hair by the way? Does he wear a rug? Did he get plugs or has he like grown twice as much hair in Entourage as he had in Singles and PCU? Ugh I've lost so much fucking hair over the last 10 years. Thank God for Andre Agassi, Sean Connery, Bruce Willis, and Vin Disel.
I agree with Circus in Jungle. I think the fact that he was alone also had alot to do with it...just a bunch of kids looking for an easy prey to mess with. Not that different from Manju's experience, except for its religious significance (hey, let's mess with the different guy; he's alone so no one will stop us). Sure, african americans have experienced hatred and bullying due to their race, but immature and/or idiotic behavior abounds in every race. Those kids should have known better, but ironically here in New York there are so many different ethnic groups, yet we often know so little about each other. Or even worse, we don't care to know more about each other due to steroetypes.
If there is any consulation for Sikhs, they should know that for true Rastafarians who choose to keep their dreadlocks covered in public, if someone uncovers their head without their permission, it is also considered just as disrespectful. One of my friends dated a Rasta who was short (5'1") and someone did the same thing to him in public. He was furious for months.
But yes, there is something super-shady about his hair. But he's hilarious in Smokin' Aces.
OK, back to topic.
What she said.
What those boys did to Sonny was vile, malicious, intentional, ignorant AND racist (these are not mutually exclusive). No, they don't know about Sikhism, but they sure as hell can perceive skin color in conjunction with a turban and a beard. They don't know why Sonny maintains a certain appearance, but you better believe they DO know that his turban is personal/religious/cultural or otherwise important to him. The purpose and effect was to intentionally degrade and humiliate. That's why they ripped it off as opposed to just sucker punching him in the gut.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if they knew, or cared about, any details about our history. The only thing they do know is their "place" in the small slice of life that they experience. These kids willingly succumbed to the tactic of oppressing others in order to gain any kind of privilege.
A friend of mine described a verbal, but still degrading, incident that took place at a fast food joint at our campus center shortly after that day 5 years ago. A Sikh classmate of ours went to get a soda. An AfAm lady behind the counter went off. Apparently, she said something to the effect of, "I ain't servin' no m--f-- terrorist!" I asked my friend (AfAm) what she and our other classmates said or did. She responded, (rather sheepishly) "Nothing." Bear in mind that a fellow law student is refused service by an AfAm lady, in front of his AfAm classmates in ...New Orleans. (One of the witnesses led a Bible study group (ha!) and gave me the "look" when I declined her invitation (irony?) ). I lost a lot of respect for my classmates that day. I remember the reactions to the slights and blatant discrimination we put up with on that campus. I also remember that our SBA president (of Indian heritage, BK prosecutor I've heard) got a security guard fired for discrimination. That lady at the fast food joint should have been fired & we should have led the charge. I considered approaching my classmate to take action. However, I didn't know how he reacted to the situation and did not want to further humiliate him by letting him know that his business was out in the street.
I think (this is just me here) that there a few forces at play:
-residual effect of that middleman in your neighborhood syndrome (resentment, discrimination)
-satisfaction that by others experiencing hatred and violence (hence, the new n-- in town), they will tend to understand where your coming from
-"solidarity" with the majority that one feels by excluding the latest enemy
Sonny said,
I'm by no means naive enough to believe that "all of us" are fighting together against "the system" for a "common cause". Seeing incidents between non-whites really hurts. For all of the shit we AfAms get for our situation in this country, nothing shames me more than incidents such as these. It is a moral AND personal failing. Granted a few individuals looked out for him, but, the hypocrisy in such cowardice is what will stick in people's minds.
The whole idea of religion being a "choice of self marginalization" and this attack not being racist is ridiculous. In many ways people proxy turbans for race, and act out accordingly. Would they probably act out even if they identified a person's race correctly? Probably! This incident is incredibly sad and unfortunately common in the U.S.
I'm with Kalli Billi, I think the saddest element of this are the acts of violence and racism between people of color communities. I am not saying there isn't a lot of anti-black racism in the desi community, but it is even more painful (in my opinion) to watch folks buy into racism of the identities put forward by white supremacy.
I lived in various parts of Noth India as a kid and being a south indian i got to hear the Madrasi taunt once in a while. Back then in the 80s, when IT had not propelled the South ahead of the North, we were just a bunch of slobbering, thick accented, darkies with weird food habits for the North Indians (albiet Brainier than them). Strangely thats exactly how Americans react to Desis today...curry smelling, silly accents, smart etc etc
Boy havent times changed now. IT did rescue us leaving the BIMARU states behind. No longer are we all "ayi ayi yo, thumbis" but North Indians now seem to know all the 4 South Indian states. I just wish Indians would eventually grow up, travel within the country, read a bit about it and recognize the 7 sister states in the North East instead of calling them chinkies.
Yes back in the 80's we did harass the Sardar kids with Bhinderwale taunts but i also remember the Sardar kids calling me Madrasi. Yes kids are cruel not the innocent cute beings you would like them to be.
"Yes kids are cruel not the innocent cute beings you would like them to be."
and Lord of the Flies doesn't need a remote island to take place.
Jermey Piven had hair plugs, not a hair piece. William Shattner and Burt Reynolds wear hair pieces. Another person who wears hair piece that might surprise is former WWF star Bret Hart. Former baseball star Wade Boggs had hair transplant. If anybody care I could found out about more famous people and there "new" air.
Also one more thing desi hair is popular among company's that make hair pieces.
I couldn't agree more Ardy. This story really pissed me off because it went down at my subway stop. But is everybody jumping the gun by assuming that the offending kids were black? In my mind "person of color" could mean many different things.
Also, (I may be feeding the trolls here, sorry) I think comparing the post-9/11 experience of brown to the history of institutionalized racism that black people have faced in this country is ridiculous. The first time I was able to even come close to empathizing with the experience of a black male in the U.S. was in 2001 while backpacking through Europe and getting stopped by police for no reason almost every other day (they would only stop my white travel partner after they realized he was with me). Even though the perception of desis in mainstream American culture has shifted from "model minority" to "terrorist threat", we still don't have shit on the hundreds of years of prejudice and hatred black people continue to face today.
Looks like I'm late to three awesome posts yesterday...
Like Amaradeep said, Sonny's story is one that other people can relate to. I can totally envision that group of teenagers because growing up, I was often a target. Being black didn't keep me from standing out.
This situation is similar to what women face with sexual harassment. People who harrass respond to a complex paradigm of perceived race/class/social status, which then causes the victim to spiral through a complex paradigm of self-perceptions that ultimately boil down to: Why me? a question that doesn't have a definite answer.
Just yesterday an acquaintance was sharing how she once wore a snap-front shirt in 6th grade and a male classmate walked up to her completely unprovoked, and ripped her shirt absolutely open. (WTH!) Since that day almost 20 years ago, she won't wear snaps. She was both humiliated and enraged, arguably the same reaction that Sonny had.
It is never okay to target someone's dignity but only someone with dignity would know that.
Boy havent times changed now. IT did rescue us leaving the BIMARU states behind. No longer are we all "ayi ayi yo, thumbis" but North Indians now seem to know all the 4 South Indian states. I just wish Indians would eventually grow up, travel within the country, read a bit about it and recognize the 7 sister states in the North East instead of calling them chinkies.
Chetchow...how can you compare idle banter among kids with the yanking off someon'e patka. Sorry but this kind of stuff does not happen in India. Even in 1984, it was politicians and thugs who went around doing all the ghastly things. Regular folk in India seem to get along just fine.
What is it with you apologist types that you have to make India appear worse than the USA all the time.
I dont mean to be rude and please dont say i'm condoning this. I'm not passing judgements but seeking to learn.
Can someone please tell me about the significance of the turban? i know a bit about the 5K's but its kesh right? i do not want to go to wikipedia for this but want to know what you think it signifies.
and once again it was no idle banter among kids. as 57. Whose God is it anyways? said "and Lord of the Flies doesn't need a remote island to take place".
can we explore a bit on why most of the Hindu women in the US no longer wear bindis at work or quite a few Sardar men have become monas. What is the motivation..is it to assimilate/conform? Why did the Brahmins abandon the practice of wearing the ritual topknot/choti? Why did Indians move away from religious rituals which dictated their lifestyle/choices? Why do Hindus no longer care about crossing the seas and the associated ritual pollution. Did it start with Rajarammohan Roy/Brahmo Samaj reforms? Why did we move towards the western lifestyle? Did Hindus adopt Muslim cultural mores during the almost 1000 year period of Muslim rule in India?
And DesiDawg ofcourse apna desh stinks but i do digg that smell
regarding the significance of the turban, i'd recommend checking this out: Me and My Turban from BBC radio last week. it's excellent and you hear the voices of sikh men and women talking about what it means to them in quite a deep and moving way. personally, it meant a lot to me to hear it as a turban-wearing sikh, but i imagine others can learn a lot from it as well.
for me, keeping my hair and turban is as much about resistance to assimilation as it is about religion and spirituality. it would have been so easy to cut my hair when i was a kid, SO easy. and i came real close in the fifth grade. but as i became more engaged with what was going on in the world and began to find supportive environments to talk about the racism i was encountering, my hair and turban became a source of strength -- in a sense, it became my "fuck you" to white/christian supremacy in the u.s., it became a daily form of resistance to racism. that may sound ridiculous to some, but i think it's true on some level for a lot of us who maintain "traditions" - be they cultural or religious - of our ancestors in this country.
i'm glad my story has sparked this discussion. thanks for the comments. it has meant a lot to me.
But you don't need to know much, and they didn't know anything, to recognize that ripping somebody's clothing off by force is humiliating. That's not about understanding the importance of clothing. Nobody says, oh, he just ripped somebody's pants off by force out of ignorance, he must not have known what those pants meant. As I said waaaaaay earlier in this thread, it's not easy to take a patka off somebody's head. You need to grab close to the skin and pull. It's not like tipping a hat off by hitting the brim with your elbow. That's why this reaction "oh it's ignorance" is so untenable.
Thank you Ennis.
I am so tired of all the lame excuses for kids who bully, rob, assault and torture others. I can be heard hollering like Medea "Take your hands off my child!" about 3x a week.
But I'm sure if you asked the average black person about Sikhism, they would know nothing about it
So it's OK to put your hands on someone if you don't know anything about them?
Fuck that.
I teach a lot of high school kids who have never left their hometown, who speak and write at a fifth grade level. They still know the difference between right and wrong, respect and dis.
"when other people of color target me than when white people do. With white people, I often go straight to anger, but with folks of color, it’s hard not to feel hopeless. The way this white supremacist system pits black people and immigrants against each other is truly tragic."
" in a sense, it became my "fuck you" to white/christian supremacy in the u.s."
This guy indeed is a real idiot. And yes SM which finds his essay insightful is surely not leftist! So Amardeep you found his essay blogworthy and ' nice '. I am sure you sympathize with his rants against White supremacy in US. Do you? Do you think White people ( the system ) in the US pits immigrants against each other and is really responsible for minority upon minority hate. His essay and a few resulting comments on this post are a classic example of false victimhood.
Says Amardeep:
The reason is apparent enough: the fact that one can dismantle and disrespect someone's sense of the self, of her/his quiet and unobtrusive dignity without any sense of remoarse or shame and treat it as no more than an innocent joke. Such masquerades of innocence are often steeped in cultural and racist hubris. There is nothing pristine or ignorant about it. Make no mistake about that.
oh it happens in india all the time especially among schoolkids etc. it would have been funny if the guy's turban had been pulled off and he had been storing an idli in his turban and the idli is left on his head and he brings it down and eats it. that would have been very interesting although i would still be sorry for the guy. reminds me of the graham greene novel with the indian astrologer who stores chapatis in his turban.
Oh yea, that would have been hi-larious. Something tells me you know quite a bit about having idli in your head.
Sonny, though it may seem like an incongruous comparison, your raison d'etre reminds me of the lyrics to one of my favorite CSNY songs, "Almost Cut My Hair." I'm not equating the experiences of white
hippiesmusician activists with that of Sikhs with dastaars, but putting forward that more can sympathize with Sonny that some people (*cough*) would like to believe."Almost cut my hair
It happened just the other day
It's gettin kinda long
I coulda said it wasn't
in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel
like letting my freak flag fly
Cause I feel like I owe it
to someone
Must be because I had the flu' for
Christmas
And I'm not feeling up to par
It
increases my paranoia
Like looking at my mirror and seeing
a police car
But I'm not giving in an inch to fear
Cause I missed myself this year
I feel like I owe it to
someone
When I finally get myself together
I'm going to get down in that sunny southern weather
And I find a place inside to laugh
Separate the wheat
from the chaff
I feel like I owe it to someone"
Btw, congrats on getting Tom Morello to produce your band. Any chance you can get some of his crunchy metal licks on your EP? @=) Ska isn't normally hard enough to be my bag, but I'm definitely digging what you guys are doing, though I could always use more crunchy metal licks...and some more cowbell. Anyways, best to you and your band.
P.S. I can't believe you guys played with Gogol Bordello. Those guys are freakin' awesome.
Right. He doesn't know how badly Sonny felt afterwards. However, that doesn't mean that he didn't know the difference between right and wrong. That's like stealing something and afterwards saying, I didn't know it cost *that* much. I only thought I was stealing something worth $40 and not $500. But that's not an excuse. The point is that everybody knows that you don't walk up to somebody, stick your hand right at their skin, and yank off their clothing.
Yeah, stop blaming your problems on white people! We all know the real problem in America is BLACK supremacy. All those stupid "history" books are dead wrong when they describe the way the United States has been constructed. No to the black supremacist system! No to the Communoleftists!
Where is SpoorLam when you need him/her?
Chetchow,
Yes, you're right in saying that "kesh" is one of the 5Ks, ie. uncut hair. The turban in itself is not sacred in Sikhism (at least not in the same way) and is obviously not one of the 5Ks either.
However, it is significant in Sikhism due to the following reasons:
1. It's basically a crown, and represents the individual's inherent equality with anyone regardless of how "exalted" the other person (eg. royalty etc) may be in a temporal worldly sense. Remember that in Mughal India and certain parts of the Middle-East, the turban had aristocratic connotations. Of course, this isn't supposed to be an egotistical thing -- it's the ideal Sikh's personal qualities which are supposed to confer the concept of "being like a king/queen" on him/her, not just being a Sikh or wearing the turban itself. Also, I guess this is also supposed to encourage the wearer of the turban to behave in a chivalrous and dignified way. To some extent it's symbolic of Guru Gobind Singh too.
2. It's a way of protecting the person's hair and head; with regards to the latter, it's also supposed to protect the wearer from blows to the head in any violent confrontation. Some people would also say that the fact that most versions of the Sikh turban extent to covering the wearer's ears also protects this vulnerable part of their bodies from physical attack. In a sense it therefore also has some military uses (some protection against blunt instrments and bladed weapons, although obviously not bullets), although during actual battlefield warfare Sikhs historically also wore modified armoured helmets (some antiques from the post-Guru Gobind Singh/pre-British era include helmets with a special bulge at the top for the top-knot). Further protection was conferred by the sharp-edged steel disk ("chakra") which further encircled the turban -- sometimes still visible in the cases of modern-day Nihang Sikhs -- and this was also emblematic of Guru Gobind Singh, who wore his turban in this manner.
3. The final reason ties into the rationale of people having to cover their heads when inside a gurdwara. This is in recognition of being inside a holy place and a gesture of respect to God. Now, since in Sikhism, the belief is that God's presence is absolutely everywhere and that the entire universe is therefore divine in its essence, covering one's head by wearing a turban is a mark of respect to this all-pervasive divine presence.
"is an experience that other people who are visibly marked as different (either for ethno/religious reasons or for any other reason) can also identify with."
Children can be cruel due to sheer ignorance, but how does an adult Sikh feel in the US society? For you sardarji's, the "visibly marked" difference is two-fold. I know one gets adjusted to any situation, and most people are too polite to ogle, but do you guys feel self-conscious in public places or meeting new people? A couple of times I had to get out of my car to pump gas while dressed in kurta pajama. I was probably returning from some puja. Nobody dared to stare, but I did feel a little self-conscious.
Not completely off the topic, I had an interesting confrontation with a rasta guy I had hired at my Chicago firm. He had the dreadlocks, which are not quite as commonplace up north as down here in Miami, where we have a huge Jamaican population. I asked the guy to please do something about his hair because we had clients visiting all the time. The fellow asked me if I was Indian and hence knew about sikhs. He asked me what I would tell a sikh employee to do about his hair. I kept my mouth shut after that. He did tie his dreads in a pony tail the next day.
Thanks for the help, Jai. Here's an interesting comparison of turbans and headdress.
Nikon --
Religion may be a "choice" to those for whom it is nothing more than a set of customs or a social network; but the true religion of one's soul is not a choice at all. I am a Hindu (Saiva), not by birth but by necessity. It is the religion I have always instinctively believed in and lived by, and until I figured that out, my soul had no peace. There was no "choice" involved; Saiva Dharma is as much a part of me as my skin or my gender, and I imagine it is much the same for anyone who has found their spiritual home and feels it deeply.