March 05, 2007
Do You Want to Know What's Under my Blouse, too? ;)Humor
In the kitchen one recent morning…
“Anna! How are you?”
“I’m well Asif, thank you for asking. And you?”
“Ah…busy with _, but you know how that is.”
“Yes. That’s why I’m caffeinating.”
“What you are drinking?”
“Espresso concentrate and milk.”
“Cold?”
“Yeah. It’s good.”
“Don’t you like tea?”
“I do, but I’m more of a coffee drinker. It’s a South Indian thing.”
“Where your parents are from?”
“Kerala.”
“Where that is?”
“Madras.”
“Ah, Madras. But you were born here.”
“Yup. California.”
“Your parents are still there?”
“Yes…you could say that.”
“What they do?”
“Engineer and Nurse. Another Malaya- I mean…South Indian thing.”
“How much your dad make?”
“He’s retired.”
“Oh. How long you live here?”
“Um…on and off for the last eight years? I came here for school.”
“Which school? The Georgetown?”
“No…The GW, more like.”
“You took Bachelor’s?”
“No. Master’s.”
“In what?”
“Both of my degrees are in political science.”
“Then…why you are here doing CMMI? Why aren’t you doing politics?”
“I did. For almost ten years. I’m done.”
“VAT! For ten years! How old—?
“32.”
“I thought you were a teenager when I first saw you, that you were Jaspreet’s daughter…but you are older than me even!”
“Come on, yaar. How could I work here if I were a teenager?”
“I don’t know…Indian kids in this country…they smart.”
“That’s cute.”
“I thought you had Bsc, that maybe you are 21, 22…not 32.”
“Nope. 32. Stale ovum and all.”
“Vat?”
“Nothin’”
“No wonder your Dad retired. No wonder you no live with parents.”
“Yes, that and the commute would be treacherous.”
“Where you live?”
“Dupont Circle…near Adams Morgan.”
“Oho…very close, in the city.”
“Yup.”
“How much you pay?”
“Uh…I…pay…around…”
He starts motioning with his right hand, as if to say, “Get on with it!”
“I…um…it’s…almost tuh…welve…hun…dred?”
“Hmm. That’s too much. You should live in Virginia. Much cheaper.”
“I actually moved here from Arlington…and it’s way cheaper than out there, not that I’m comfortable with discussing any of this…um…stuff.”
“Why not?”
“Nevermind.”
“You live alone?”
“Yes.”
“So you pay all $1200.”
“Uh…yeah.”
“How long it take you to get to work?”
“Well, it’s a 10 minute walk to the Metro…then it’s three stops plus a 5 minute-“
“Three stops! That’s it??”
“Yeah…it’s part of why I wanted to live there. Very well-located.”
“Then you must get here so fast!”
“About 30 minutes, door-to-door. The red line is good like that.”
“I have one hour commute, both ways.”
“Ah, yeah, that would wear on me.”
“But I only pay $700.”
“Right.”
“So I save more money than you.”
“Quite probably.”
“Why you not like saving?”
“I’m American.”
“You are Indian!”
“Fine, but my bank account sure ain’t. I have to go…my spreadsheets await.”
“You want me to look for apartment for you? Cheaper!”
“No, that’s beyond sweet of you though.”
“Okay. You may not save money…but…at least you look so young when you are that old!”
“Would that I could pay my rent with that…”
::
Just so we’re clear, I think this entire exchange was dear; in fact, Asif is one of my favorite people here. Much like 2005’s The only time I’m not “from India” recorded a different, yet similarly very brown moment in my life, I wrote this post because I think it’s amusing that the only people who ask about my rent…are other desis. :)
Are we the only ones who do this? Immediately and bluntly interrogate others about monetary matters like salary, rent and how much some new purchase cost? I need to ask my non-brown friends…
anna on March 5, 2007 01:09 PM in Humor, Musings · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Welcome back Anna-ji. We have been here only, waiting and waiting for your writing. You were busy, no?
Wooo hoooo!! You're blogging here again.
Anna, tho I only make one of those criteria, let me chime in....
I find New York rents seem to be an exception. I mean, some people are still squeamish, but sooner or later, in many cases, the curiosity to know how many other people are paying way too much for way too little space gets the better of them, and the question comes out. But there it ends, with regard to the financial stuff...
And desi's love to get the immigration question out of the way as soon as they can (Resident? F1? H1? Labor complete? EAD? 1-485, 1-90, LSD, RIP etc.) And then "I can hook you up with a good attorney..., how much you pay for lawyer?" And then, "By the way my name is Neha/Prasant/Bobbi..." etc..
Ahh the interrogation, it never get's old.
Over time I have come to expect and be prepared for such questions from "Recently arrived immigrant from the homeland" (thanks Ennis) . I have also realized that it has a lot to do with being in a new country and them having a sense of camaraderie.
BTW, Nice to see that you are back.
Just to be clear, I used to work in India and this sort of behaviour was frowned upon, even though prevalent - by no means a 'granted desi feature'. There is the non-PC adage too -'never ask a lady her age and a gentleman how much he makes' (both flouted here).
I remember a nosey relative circumventing the rule
NoseybutThinksVeryClever relative: "So, how much tax do you pay?"
Smartass: "30%"
Which also reminds me of this one time when I was starting a new job along with my then roomie a girl (who happened to be dating another friend).
We walk in and this random girl (desi of course) walks up and goes, "Hi I am a hindu from Calcutta", "Are you guys married?".
I am in way implying that it is a regular happening, but that it was one of those very weird situations where I did not have an answer.
Such is the fodder of many a New York discussion, especially among Manhattanites (Desi and non), though the tone is one of shared misery / solidarity and not nosy, if charming, inquisition.
Let's not underestimate the American penchant for disclosing all, but only to the stanger sitting next to one on the plane and never to anybody one might see again. The drive to bare all is the same. The targets are different.
As desi as I am, though, I do find money questions very intrusive but not necessarily tasteless if they are asked by people in India. I know they are multiplying everything by 45 and ready to fall out their chairs, which makes this "ugly American," at least ugly in a financial sense, feel even more guilty.
Hilarious Anna, I'm guessing Asif lived in India for a major part of his life and he still doesn't know that a state called 'Kerala' exists ? Being a dosa loving, mohanlal worshipping Southie myself ;-) i can soo feel you pain during that part of the conversation
"C'mon spill the beans, how much you payin'?" is a part of initial conversations in NYC as well, it must be the number of immigrants there as well from everywhere else in the country. Of course the interrogation about paternal income could only be desi, as is this post that is typically ends a blaze of amateur sociology.
Hahaha! That's so funny. What about the other ones, like "Why you are not married yet, you're such a pretty girl. I hope my Neil/Anand/Rajukuttan could find a nice educated girl like you." I think it is a pretty desi thing, but I do have Chinese friends who get the same kinds of interrogations from the Uncles and Aunties. I guess being half brown I would have to say it might be a rainbow thing.
Just out of curiosity, isn't Madras/Chennai in Tamil Nadu? Is Thiruvananthapuram/Trivandrum not big enough to be a landmark? Just wondering 'cause tho' I'm Andhra my hubby's a real "good malayalee boy" so we have family and friends from all over Kerala.
ANNA!! - Deja vu feeling yaar :))
Vellcome back ANNAbanana. You've been missed. Dude in NYC everyone's all up in your business about how much rent you pay because people pay so much here. But yes the evaluating how old your ovaries are may be a desi thing but the sizing up of how much you are worth is a NYC thing. Everyone in this superficial island called Manhattan wants to know who you work for, what your biz card says about you and how much money you possibly make doing what you do and yes what kind of car you drive, whether you are bridge and tunnel or whether you live on the upper west side south of Harlem and such sundries.
@Floridian
And whatsup with carrying entire albums of family in a wallet and showing them off (along with the wedding band) to a stranger on the plane. Flavour of American nosyness - random question at the store counter that would elicit an agreement or denial, I'd rather take the 5th. Contrast that with shop keepers in India who hardly ask nosy questions beyond the general kushal-mangal.
She is baaaaack!
I am sure you are an American who learned geography in an American school. Yep.
Funny conversation, ANNA.
Let me 4th and 5th JOAT and the other NYers: no one in NYC hesitates to ask someone they just met how much the other is paying in rent. And then you sit around for an hour b*tching about it. And then you talk about Jersey being an option (or South Brooklyn or Eastern Queens), and the coversation drops.
welcome back senora, hilarious convo. You come from the land of chai
Hoboken is not that bad of a commute..but anna whats the answer to the topic? (not to be intrusive and blunt) ;)
he thought you were punjabi?
Do what I do - take a fake phone call.
Are we the only ones who do this?
nope. at least, unlike some non-spanish speaking latinos there isn't an assumption that we'll know the language (though in big cities people do pepper me with hindi, in a tentative manner).
See: Kesh's comment for how that snippet of conversation should be reacted to-- I've met plenty of North Indians who hadn't a clue where Kerala was. Madras, however, everyone knows. Get it? No? Nevermind.
Yes, astonishingly enough, I believe that has happened to her before, especially in cabs. She also gets, "Tamil", "Fijian" and "Bengali", when she's not being mistaken for an Abysinnian.
I don't think its a particualrly desi thing to ask inappropriate personal questions. Insensitive ,clueless types abound everywhere !
However, one thing that really gets my goat is being asked how much money I make , sometimes by virtual strangers. Oh yeah, that happens too!Starter husband's extended family in India especially has no qualms about asking the "bahu" how much she makes.This happened when I was working there and still happens when I visit after moving here.
I do not like to be blatantly rude so I came up with the perfect conversation stopper."Enough to be comfortable, thank you !".Usually works and I segue into other non-controversial matters :-)
Welcome back ANNA!
You were surely missed. Are you going to post more frequently now?
Saying Madras is easier than saying Thirvananthapuram or Pathanamthitta,
my turkish colleagues bring up who's making how much all the time during lunch outings. Quite surprising actually, I thought this was a uniquely desi trait.
Isn't the reason for calling all of South India "Madras", that at one time the "Madras Presidency" did cover the majority of south India ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Madras_Prov_1859.gif
So if Anna's family is from northern kerala her statement would be true.
Lots of older Indians and esp non-south-indian indians still use the word Madras.
You most likely know it as Chennai, but it will always be Madras to me. Bonne chance, Elaine. You there on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
I promise you that the "Madras" response was more about saving herself pain than referring to the fascinating stuff your comment taught us.
Remember, this is the girl who during a similar conversation famously once heard, "Anything South of Punjab is South India". Some people are just going to get confused if you say, "Cochin" or try to be specific and geographically accurate. These are the same people who think that the good people of Kerala, also know as "Malayalams" speak...ah, never mind.
Just like I constantly get asked if I speak hindu...
reply: nama-as-tey
These scenarios can be charming or enraging depending on your mood at the time. Sometimes it can be nice to have an Uncle or Aunty make conversation with you, you get a righteous, 'heh, what do white people know, we have an affinity you see, me Indian and she Indian too, see, we have an unspoken intimacy and connection, we're a community hahaha'. But some other times you just want to strangle the nosy *insert cuss word here* depending on atmospheric pressure, especially when questions of matrimony arise (for 'stale ovums' see 'derelict sacs')
The first couple of times I tried correcting them, now I just go yeah, that and another 2 Indian languages.
It is a very Desi thing to do. My friend (4th generation irish kid) and I were driving two other 1.5 genners's like me back from a game. It was a couple our age (20's) and they would not stop asking the details on my friend's loan.
"How much did you put down?"
"How much a month?"
"You didn't lease it did you?"
"So isn't that like 15% of how your salary a month? A cadillac at your age is not a good investment."
Very inquisitive. But no harm done.
During my first trip to India, after I started my first job, my Mom threw a party for me. Every signle uncle and auntie from the extended family asked me how much money I made. Some of them went on to ask how much money I sent to my parents. They offered to exchange information about how much money their sons made and/or saved. It was irritating from the start.
My Mom's explanation was that they wanted to let me know how much their son made, so that I'd consider settling down with him. Now I forbid my Mom from inviting random relatives for parties.
a) The Vietnamese here do the same thing to one another.
b) Your vignette is yet another reason I keep my distance from extended family and "family friends." Homeys have no concept of privacy or personal space.
wow you are 32!!!
Even for a FOB like me, Its frustrating to be subjected to Auntie/Uncle Interrogations. I can totally understand what ABD's has to face.
BTW, Anna Whats your Bra size? :)
You should be thankful you are not his hairstylist (barber) or he would've asked for a blow job.
Pathanamthitta
I remember , back in the Desh, most of the nurses came from this town. Am I generalising or is it true?
So the big question is whether or not Anna is one of "our girls":
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004212.html
Funny thing though, During my college days an Arab lab partner (from the U.A.E) and I used to talk about the Persian Gulf a lot( AS both of us had grown up in the region) He then asked me which part of India i'm from and i replied the South. He then proceeded to ask me if I was from Kerala and whether i spoke 'Malayalam'? He could tell the difference between Tamil Nadu and Kerala and suprisingly so can a large number of Arabs from the Persian Gulf, I guess I can attribute this to their love of 'Kotakkal' massages!
No this is attributed to the obscenely high amount of slave labourers from Kerala building high rises in Middle East.
A cadillac at any age is not a good investment.
I don't know if cmmi gives away where you work - but perhaps you should delete it if it does, given the shit you've been through in the past with evil stalkers/haters?
I haven't faced the visa status question from desis my age (35) but I get the rent question from older desis.
I actually hate the kids question the most. I've been married for 11 years now and it is AGONY trying to deflect the "koi problem hai kya?" question. I've also had American non-desi women ask me whether I've decided against having children. I would never ask anyone this question, it's so personal.
I am surprised he did not ask you what language you write your code in...May be this just a gulti thing.
No this is attributed to the obscenely high amount of slave labourers from Kerala building high rises in Middle East.
also, the arabian peninsula has long had a trading relationship with the coastal ports of south india. the muslims of kerala have long had a relationship with south arabians (pre-dating their slave labor today).
I read through this post quickly b/c I've had this discussion before with an aunty-type at work - only thing missing were: 'when you are you having another kid? Oh really? Why not?" and "how much did you get your house for?"
To get out of this discussion, the key is to turn the table around. Even if you don't CARE about them, start asking questions. These nosey people also like to talk about themselves. They're like 3 yr olds who keep asking "why".. keep the conversation going.
Personally if I know someone is sizing me up and trying to judge me and it's happened with uncles/aunties where they are trying to figure out if their son/daughter is making more than you; I have no qualms with totally lying about the figures just to throw them a loop make them think and shut up. Who cares. So far no one's asked me for my W2 to prove it!
To Maitri ( # 38)
Dear Maitri,
I feel for you and totally understand why you want to keep away from "family friends" and assorted uncles/aunts/cousins
However, its usually harmless and out of a misplaced sense of duty/love/'well-wishing'-ness whatever.
Its an art to learn to deflect the questions ;-) and give them just enough info to keep them guessing
Too much uncle/auntie bashing going on here. Don't you know that even when we are downright rude and offensive, we have your best interests at heart?
Holy Cow
Anna, when did you change the title of this post?
OK, I'll take back my question, Can we have the original Title
Awww, of course we know that. :) Besides you're hardly downright rude and offensive, Florida-Uncle. :D
Yay, she's back. Just in time for World Cup. Remember ANNA, you were going to be SM's cricket correspondent?
Since this post is about nagging uncles and such, I thought I'd bring it up.
Only then we know. Normally when aunties/uncles are being nice and sweet, they are looking for something else. Again, personal experience.
@roonie
The above should answer your misplaced sense of what they are acctually doing.
my friend mentioned this topic at lunch so I've deceided to add my comment;
I'm african american and his inquisitiveness is not just a desi thing. I've been asked all sorts of questions by other african americans, especially about my marital status. In terms of residence, they start (in New York) with boro, then which part of the boro, then a comment about it.
Salary is a no-no usually, because we're terrified someone will start bugging us for money (Hey, do you have 10 bucks until Thursday/Friday?)
Another problem is that everyone assumes that if you're from the south, you know everything about the south.
South Carolina is not Mississippi. Get it straight.
I think in general people of any group - whether race or religion or gender - feel free to ask potentially un-PC questions if they feel comfortable enough. Immigrants may take this to an extreme, as in if you're in a new country you could simply feel comfortable with someone because they look like you...
Just curious what brought about the change in title from "bra size" to "What's under my blouse"?
I had a gas station attendent question me closely about all these matters and more...getting as specific as to ask me what street I live on. I'm in a small town, so telling him my street was like telling him where I lived. As he was asking, I slowly moved my ring to my ring finger and waved it copiously around, pretending I was engaged.
Then, when my boyfriend came into town, we made sure to get gas there...
"Vat is this?"
"Vat is..wha...Oh, this is Ravi."
"No...VAT is this...relation, relation."
"Oh...my...um...fiance."
Too funny.
Hariprasad, discretion is the better part of valor.
Anna, nice to see ya! You've got a great ear for dialogue. Rings true all the way.
I used to get a lot but not so much anymore. Now, I take control of the conversation so that uncomfortable questions don't even come up.
So good to see you back, Anna. You've been missed.
And yes, the title of the post reminded me of this.
I know. It's your dil.
Gujjubhai, that's too much! :)
I just take off my shirt at the beginning of the conversation, just to pre-empt the request.
Ever since I got to Delhi, I've been fielding such questions by everyone I meet on a social basis. "How old are you?" "Are you married?" "How come your husband is not here?" "You don't have kids? Why not?" and of course "How much money do you make?"
I answer pretty much all but the last one honestly.. and I don't feel offended... the last question I just tell them "Not enough, since the US government wants half of it!" and they laugh and the subject drops.
Part of my work is on teaching differences between American and Indian culture ... this is one of the things we have talked about. In India, a lot of questions that Americans would consider too personal are seen as perfectly normal. But then again, it's the Americans who put their whole lives up on reality TV ... so it's a tradeoff, I guess.
Hahaha..what're the chances of *that*!! :-) :-). Our rat brains must be firing off at the same time.
BTW, love reading your blog....it's quite awesome.
Well, if that's what's under there, here's how it goes.
(The user comments are priceless in themselves.)
in the US, much of it is a competition of perfectionistic self-presentation. Research says that is a maladaptive self-presentational style composed of three facets:
1. perfectionistic self-promotion (proclaiming and displaying one's perfection)
2. nondisplay of imperfection (concealing and avoiding behavioral demonstrations of one's imperfection), and
3. nondisclosure of imperfection (evading and avoiding verbal admissions of one's imperfection). [link]
When I seriously play this game, I beat most people I know. But sometimes I try acting stupid in American gatherings - just to violate expectations, and see the fun.
Perfection is boring, lifeless, dull.
Funny thread.
And the punch line
ennis sez
hey... be nice y'all. i htink this is sweet. i love me some friendly questioning - including the guy who just brought in my kapi without knocking at the door - and kept peering over my shoulder until he asked - how much is my laptop and my camera - then he waggled his head and smiled. more innocenti than the pope.
erm.
aw man! you got to be kidding. they are the only ones who would drive an hour in "bumper to bumper" traffic to pick you up at the airport, give you a hot meal when you get to their place at 2 am and take time out in the evening to show you the local sights... give some and take some.
duty is a wonderful thing.
Gujjubhai, thanks. i try :)
kobayashi, nice brown melody ... it's all in the 'mmmmm'
This sort of intrusive questioning is usually confined to relatives (no matter if they haven't met you in years) and close family friends in North India. In Bombay, people will talk about property and what you paid for your flat, of course, but very little direct nosiness (not that they don't care - they do, they're just more subtle in how they find out). But in the US, I find, desis, particularly those who migrated there, see every other desi as "family," and even the grocery store guy will ask how much rent you pay (and also offer to help you out with all sorts of mundane things). It's the usual desi networkiness on speed.
Anna! You're back! Don't leave us anymore!!!!!!!!!!!
People from India and some other countries tend to ask a lot personal questions because of hierarchical nature of their societies. People from these societies find it easier to relate & interact with each other if they are in some form of hierarchy. Criteria for hierarchy can be anything: salary, job, education, martial status, caste, class..
So these personal questions serve two important functions:
1. To add a person into a hierarchy by figuring out a position for other person relative to themselves or others in a hierarchy.
2. To maintain the hierarchy by finding out if a person perceived to be lower in hierarchy needs help and then providing unsolicited advice and help i.e. they justify their higher position in hierarchy.
People from hierarchical societies tend to have very flexible or no ego boundaries and flexible personal space for above mentioned reasons.
Arul, the need for status signalling is actually lower in societies with entrenched hierarchy, like most of India, because someone can place you easily with you last name (caste indicator), whether you speak English and how well, how you are dressed, and so on. Desis in the US are more likely to come into contact with desis from a wider geographical area and quite frankly, to speak to those from different social classes as equals. I think that's why the status-positioning is more frantic. Plus people assume that everyone went to the US for the money, so even if you're a poor grad student you get asked how much you make and how much rent you pay.
Your point #2 above is a good one, though. Desis definitely establish hierarchy through patronage and "helping" others out, which then gives you the right to tell others how to live their lives, because you've taken responsibility for them. Happens in families too, all the time. Very Marcel Mauss.
Hey Anna! Missed your input on Deepa Mehta's lipstick!
YAY..anna is back :D. Why is it there are like almost no southies in the socal area?? :(
Not hierarchy, but location. Lesser mortals are curious to know what happened to the body (public), to understand where is the mind (private).
ANNA good to see you are back!
This post is hilarious and so true. It's kind of endearing though, in DC the rent question comes up a lot too from friends and randoms and the whole line of questioning is something I get from a lot of cab drivers in the city. Floridian, we know you uncles and aunties only care about us and if you didn't show it in this way us betis and betas would be missing out on the commisserating/laughing with the African, Chinese, Jewish, Middle Eastern, etc young people in our lives. It's definitely not unique to the desi people I know, but a community thing I think. It's all out of love though sometimes it can be, depending on your mood, very annoying.
Haha, runa I totally agree.As far as being mistaken for another desi sub-group...I think it's really funny when random aunties and uncles ask you where your parents are from/where you were born--I reply Bombay--and then go on to talk about you to your face in Tamil. Good times as I just smile to myself and reply in Tamil;) Throws people for a loop.
People who rent anywhere in the US tend to talk about the costs, though the approach in asking about it might not be the same!!
Man, I ask my non-desi friends about rent all the time. It's part of living in a city, especially if you're in an awesome apartment in a cool part of town. At the same time, it's pretty rude to adopt the "you got screwed, you should be more like me" attitude.
My favorite Desi "streetcorner interrogation" actually happened on a train. This guy struck up conversation with me on the El and, after running through the various questions on school, job (complete with advice about how I should go to medical school and/or become an engineer, naturally), region, family, marriage (and how I totally should, ASAP), friends (and how I should only hang out with other Desis), etc... leaned in and asked where was a good place to meet women. I took it kind of good-naturedly, although I didn't really know what to say. I tend to meet women by, I dunno, doing normal things. I wasn't going to send him to the local random college hookup skank bar, obviously. In fact, after the tirade about drunk Westerners I wasn't going to tell him to go to a bar at all. So I'm basically bullshitting ("uhm, I don't know, maybe the temple?") when he leans in and says "no, no, I mean a woman for just one night. You see, I've been here for several months, and I'm VERY LONELY" and stares at me meaningfully.
I don't know how you all would react to that. I could barely keep myself from laughing and I got off the train at the next stop. I kind of feel bad for the guy in retrospect, but seriously, asking some random guy you just met on the train (and talked to for maybe 10 minutes) where to find a prostitute HAS to violate some sort of social norm even in India doesn't it?
This is an awesome idea, JoAT! We could totally disrupt the Desi Groupmind Status Calculation Algorithm by giving all sorts of false data about how much artisanal breadmakers, radio documentary producers, and middle school math teachers make. Can't you just see the hoard of Desi kids popping up in modern dance companies because their parents heard somewhere that you can make $100,000 immediately after college?
When I moved to a new city in the US, an Indian woman whom I work with asked me in which part of the city I was planning to settle in. I mentioned I was going to live in downtown, because thats where all the bars and clubs are;-) And she literally had a fit. She was all 'you must live with all the other south asians in X (a more suburban ghetto) and no one ( meaning people like her) lives in downtown'. What really pissed me was I had never asked for her opinion. And her unsolicited questions about the rent I pay, my water and electricity bills and why I spend so much on clothes and makeup really bothered me. I have never met such a blatantly inquisitive and annoying person such as her, but I would put it down to a toxic personality than her country of origin.
Here I am! It's bc they are all in NY, Texas and Florida it seems.
P.S. ooo Syler sucks
Our people are blunt and too involved...sometimes I love it because it can be refreshing. Other times I smile and try to change the subject.
SP,
I don't think status signaling is lower in India. Within a caste based community people interact with each other under some hierarchical setup. Moreover it is not easy to figure out caste in southindia and maharastra where people use village names as their last names or surnames, and there are many parallel castes with no clear hierarchy between them, so caste alone is not sufficient. Basically there is a need for hierarchy for people from these societies because thats what they are used to since their childhood. Btw hierarchy need not be a multi level structure, it can be, for example, a simple senior-junior relationship between two persons based on their age.
Neale, the story of your encounter with lecturing desi wanting a hooker is just too priceless. And typical. I'm all for subverting the desi status groupmind by spreading exaggerated figures of what you can make in a non-banking career!
typical, yes.
déjà vu anyone? seniors? the pioneers?
Asking about Kids, I've always been heard/seen by immediate family to never broach the topic lest the couple/spouse in question feels bad. Even my Nosey Garndma prods about where you bought a Saree and for how much and not about kids/Pay.
However, they bug/discuss with others the same topics about a person if they have reasons to believe that one might know. Great Indian Generalization:
American A and B meet at a restaurant, and talk (rather loudly) about themselves; A goes on with a list of personal likes/dislikes and on cue B continues. Rationale, the most PC topic is talk about is one's own likes/dislikes in food.
Indian A and B meet at a a restaurant, they are dissecting C and each other's food - former rather softly, the other rather loudly (or maybe its a ploy to drown one with the other). Talkign about C is the best way to stay out of each other's hair and feel good about each other
damn that blockquote!!
Okay.
Kerala obviously does not = Madras and ANNA is aware of that. To clarify what was meant, since this part of the post seems inexplicably murky: when faced with a situation where her conversational partner had no clue where Kerala was, a girl in a hurry offered up the nearest "well-known-to-Northies" city she could come up with. In the spirit of the REST of the conversation, during which ANNA was uncharacteristically succinct, one can see that in this context, "Madras" was used humorously, not literally.
I repeat, Kerala is the state next to Tamil Nadu, where the city of Madras is (don't make me call it that other name, I refuse...I refuse!!). We in the bunker are all aware of that. Thank you for your time and remember to vote Abhi in '28.
I'm just imagining what will happen once desis discover sex as a conversational topic. Then that nosy neighbor will be asking you not just about your salary, rent and friends but also how and how often you get freaky ...
I have NEVER, in my ENTIRE life, met an Indian who had never heard of Kerala. Maybe the guy in question is from a different desi country? I can accept that there might be a 2nd gen person who has never heard of Kerala, but a homegrown Indian? Anybody with enough education to come to the US would at least have a general idea of where it was. I think this has come up on this site before and I still refuse to believe that it's true.
I have met those people and I will meet those people. It has to be understood that not everyone who comes here (from India) is educated. Try walking into a gas station at the middle of nowhere and you will know what I am talking about.
The person in question might not fit the above description, but trust me, we Indians are not as good in geography as everyone assumes us to be.
Since the whole Kerala/Madras question is so touchy, why not (a) respond to Nosy Kitchen Guy and (b) respect geography at the same time by saying "Kerala's in South India." Everybody's entitled to their opinion. Mine is that using the term Madras as a blanket just perpetuates its over-generalization. I wince when North Indians refer to all South Indians as Madrasis. Option (c) is to say, "Well, if YOU don't know, I'm sure not telling you."
Sorry to hear that the author is down to a single ovum at age 32. Are you sure you don't have ova?
I'm sorry that you feel the need to switch handles to leave your smart-assed observation,"Observer". I don't know whether I have ova or ovum...I'm not pre-med and I don't care. Is every detail YOU mention while speaking (before your morning coffee, no less)100% fact-checked and flawless? I'm imperfect, so I can't or don't claim that.
I just wanted to share an actual conversation I had with a younger, Indian co-worker which stuck with me, because I thought it might amuse some of you. Yes, yes, you all have the right to dissect me because I "put myself out there", but I also have the right to not enjoy it. And that lack of enjoyment is exactly why after over four years of blogging, I no longer feel like posting quite so much.
To everyone who welcomed me back, under this post, with such kind, genuine words-- thank you. Those sincere good wishes are what I gather and hold close; they are also what leave me torn about whether I should continue to leave myself vulnerable...for years, the sweetness trumped the trollery. Now...I don't know. After those same long years, hearing (via email, wikipedia histories, other desi blogs which some of you are the writers of or hell, on anonymous comments left on MY other blogs or fotolog) about my weight or my skin color or how it's no surprise that I'm a spinster or how I'm lame and I suck and how my writing is shitty...well, I'm sick of it. It takes a toll. And my life is too short to tolerate bullshit.
No, this isn't me fishing for compliments or requiring that you all kiss my ass and tell me not to leave. I'm not three and threatening to run away, nor am I the girl who storms out and then hovers outside for the "obligatory five minutes", hoping you follow. Finally and most importantly, this is NOT an order to my ever-loyal praetorians to attack "Doc"/"Observer". People can disagree with me; I don't give a shit, as long as they're not cruel.
This is just an explanation that some of you seem to have wanted, regarding my absence and intentions. If you were kind enough to care and notice that I was gone, then I owe you that much.
ANNA , though i know that it does not matter to you , still i will say that Sepia Mutiny is incomplete without you .
I love your posts , your honesty and you :)
"still i will say that Sepia Mutiny is incomplete without you ."
I second that. Your topics usually are not overtly desi, neither do they particularly address the vaunted desi culture, but they are still very much sepia because, Anna, if you weren't a desi, you would have had a very different "sensibility," to use a term from my old literary criticism days. So in that sense, your amorphously desi blogs do complete the more focused desi-specific SM offering.
As SM has grown - and I have been on it only a year - it may have become less familial and more public. Now there is a parade of new commenters, some of whom may regard it as just another place to stick a note rather than treating SM as a slowly evolved community with a defined cyber-culture that should be respected and preserved. So blame yourself - actually, yourselves - for inadvertently making SM so popular but please learn to accept some of the headaches that always come with success.
I've met first-gens who don't know where or even what "Bangalore" is. They think I mean "Bangladesh."
PLENTY of desi immigrants post-1980s are poorly-educated in a formal sense (although it's true that most have at least a basic literacy in Punjabi/Gujarati/Bengali/Urdu etc and sometimes English).
ANNA, your comment #101 is pretty much what I suspected in terms of why you weren't posting so much anymore. It's understandable.
Re: your comment 101. It's immaterial to me whether you are pre-med. You are a writer, and therefore vulnerable to comments on your grammar. If you consider such comments to be "personal, non-issue-focused flames," as cited in the comment form, so be it.
"Doc":
I think suggestions about grammar (or anything else, really) are taken far more seriously when troll-like behavior isn't exhibited by those who are making such suggestions. Switching handles in a matter of seconds to leave two different comments on the same thread, back-to-back doesn't really give the impression that you care about grammar or being constructive. The fact that you have never commented here before (from that IP at least) also doesn't help, since there's no past record to consider when trying to discern whether you are genuinely interested in dialogue vs. genuinely attempting to be an ass.
Well if it IS singular, then I think what was said is even funnier. Thanks for clarifying and improving it.
Yes, I'm aware of that. I don't think you need a formal education to have heard of Kerala. I think if you were from a tiny village in the middle of nowhere and had never left, you might never have heard of Kerala, but if you know there's a larger world out there, which you would have to know if you left the country, obviously, you probably would have heard of it.
(Anna, I'm in no way implying that you made up that the guy didn't know about Kerala, and if it happened to you, I believe it, I just refuse to believe that it's as prevalent as everyone says it is among Indian born Indians, after having lived in India most of my life and never having it happen to me)
I agree. And that's my official medical opinion. And it's not ungrammatical either. She didn't say "my ovum are stale".
Yes! Its true. Only Desi FOBS have no shame in asking for salary, rent, immigration status etc. smack right up to your face. Its so embarassing. I experienced this with some Madrassis I've worked with in the past, maybe they were from Hyderebad. The only conversation topic they had was how to save money. Worst company I've expereinced ever!
The memories!
How many times have personal questions been asked by strangers on trains in India? At first I was totally charmed by the immediate connection and desire for openness. But often times the openness is expected to come from one part -- me only, and is not reciprocated.
For some reason my financial situation is regarded as a very personal thing by me and sometimes I took it as an affront when asked so bluntly about it by strangers. It was as if I felt they were trying to find out if I was rich, to fit their stereotypes of foriegners or something. Once or twice I retaliated by asking them about their sex life, something that to them may be as personal and private as I regard my financial life. But then I realized that the people asking me these questions just don't feel the same secrecy over finances that I do -- the ones who, when I ask them about theirs, they give details. But the other type of inquirer was one who wanted to find out all kinds of stuff about me without reciprocating the same type of info about themselves. I would give them answers, thinking that when it's my turn to ask them questions they will answer as I did, but then they didn't and I was left feeling totally exposed and FOOLISH .
So I learned to answer quickly and succinctly (sometimes honestly, sometimes not) and then immediately ask them a question, rather than wait for their series of questions to end before I got my turn.
The women in particular liked to inquire about my marital status and then offer unsolicited advice.
I found the more formally "un-educated" the person was, the conversation would be more sincere, genuine, open and reciprocal. Some of the more "educated" people had a very "chalak" vibe - some were definetly looking to gather some info on you without any intention of revealing much at all about themselves. In fact, after I had answered a series of personal info to one man and I asked him the same questions, he retorted by saying, "according to shastra there are 9 things you should never discuss...".... and they were all of the things he had asked me about!!!
So he walked away with my entire "bio-data" and I was left with a shastric shlok --- which I have since learned to use on everybody else.