That is sad situation and that "note" is chilling. But good luck to him in the compt

>>Ken Sah came to the country as a student, and later applied for asylum because the region of India from which he came was experiencing religious violence.

How do you say "asshole" in Gujarathi?

M. Nam

Touching tale indeed, but why couldn't they take their kid with them? If they could, atleast take him and send back when he is ready.

wow, nice find.

i notice that some have not the best childhood and it motivates them like in kunal's case. while others blame their own for turning out like pac.

am i being too hard on pac?

And why is no one blaming the parents for creating this situation? Did they really think they were going to be granted asylum so they didn't have to go back to GUJARAT?. Gurajat might have some religious violence, but its not Rwanda or Sudan.

That's really great parenting by Ken and Sarita - apply ridiculous amounts of pressure on a little kid and make him think there is a causal link between winning a stupid spelling bee and success. The real tragedy here is that the parents didn't take their kid back to India to be with him (he's a citizen, he can always come back). Get the relative to send back money from the business and enjoy life in India WITH Kunal until the immigration thing is sorted out. I hope Kunal realizes there is more to life then a spelling bee, and goes outside to play with the other children.

Awwww that's sad. He can sponsor his parents the minute he turns 18 actually and they should be able to come here in less than two years so he's got a few years ahead of him. And more power to him if he finds comfort in something educational. Better than than getting in trouble.

i notice that some have not the best childhood and it motivates them like in kunal's case. while others blame their own for turning out like pac.

Such motivation is unreal. If I was his parent I'd tell him to relax, have a good time, and try not to think about his parents, and yes, f*ck the spelling bee.

"They have a compelling case," says Heather Barney, the senator's spokeswoman. "But special legislation is for rare and unusual cases."

It really irks me to see people misuse the asylum/refugee provisions of Immigration Law. If Sah applied for asylum in 1996, unless I am mistaken, I am not aware of religious persecution of Christians in Gujarat in 1996.

There are a lot of people from war torn countries who are in desperate need of asylum. Ridiculous asylum applications clog up the system and hurts legitimate asylum seekers.

Even though I feel really sorry for the kid, and his hardships.

Few things are totally messed up:

a) Since when Hindus from Gujarat need political asylum

b) As everyone has pointed out, the kid is an US citizen, he can come and go, as he wishes. Take SAT from India (all most all my nephews and neices do that), go to American Embassy school in Delhi.

c) Too much importance on spelling bee contest, that is seriously mucked up.

Let the kid chill out, get some dates in Surat, and then in Cambridge, Mass.

Read their interview. You can easily read between the lines:

Sah said, I looked at America as the land of opportunity. I liked it here. I liked the history of the country. I decided to stay. I applied for an asylum in 1991 while still in college. I was already married to my wife Sarita, but there were those that said if I married an American I could stay. But, I couldnt do that because I was already married

Asylum is a scam in some cases, and that is shame, since it mucks up for real cases.

Ok, this guy is obviouly a con man. Read his interview here.

i agree with this:

And why is no one blaming the parents for creating this situation? Did they really think they were going to be granted asylum so they didn't have to go back to GUJARAT?. Gurajat might have some religious violence, but its not Rwanda or Sudan.

and as for winning the spelling bee to get into harvard.. um. doesn't really compute. a+b doesn't equal c.

and agree with kush:

Few things are totally messed up:

a) Since when Hindus from Gujarat need political asylum

b) As everyone has pointed out, the kid is an US citizen, he can come and go, as he wishes. Take SAT from India (all most all my nephews and neices do that), go to American Embassy school in Delhi.

c) Too much importance on spelling bee contest, that is seriously mucked up.

and what is up with this?:

In a telephone interview, Ken Sah is matter-of-fact. “It’s very tough. He calls every day, and he cries,” he says of his son. “He needs to live with his parents. But he doesn’t have that. We try to make him feel better and stronger.”

he does need to live with the folks.. no use crying and trying to study. read kush's post again. manish also has some fab points:

That's really great parenting by Ken and Sarita - apply ridiculous amounts of pressure on a little kid and make him think there is a causal link between winning a stupid spelling bee and success. The real tragedy here is that the parents didn't take their kid back to India to be with him (he's a citizen, he can always come back). Get the relative to send back money from the business and enjoy life in India WITH Kunal until the immigration thing is sorted out. I hope Kunal realizes there is more to life then a spelling bee, and goes outside to play with the other children.

kunal: go out and play. seriously. where you go to school will not make you 'who you are', 'more successful', or 'happier'.

ken needs to go and find barbie.
and find the dreamhouse to live in.
seriously bad parenting.

He can sponsor his parents the minute he turns 18 actually and they should be able to come here in less than two years so he's got a few years ahead of him.

Actually, he can't:

If we have to leave they told me there is a 10 year ban before I could enter this country again. [Link]

I'm hesitant to speak about whether he had grounds for asylum since I don't know anything about the case, and I don't assume that all parts of India are equally safe for all people. Still, I too am puzzled about the claim of religious violence against Hindus in Gujarat Bihar making it unsafe for the father to return to India after his studies were done. He certainly doesn't do himself any favors in the section of the interview that was quoted.

Here are the grounds under which the father applied for asylum:

A Hindu, Ken came to the United States in 1990 via a student visa to study aircraft mechanics in Oakland, Calif. In 1991, he applied for political asylum because Hindus were being mistreated, beaten, even killed in his home state of Bihar, where Muslims hold a significant majority in the largely Hindu country. [Link]

I think the moral claim the parents are making is that they were here legally for 10 years, and if the court system took so long that they put down substantial roots. Given that an extra month of delay would have allowed them to remain in the country, they are claiming that this is unfair:

Although Ken got no response to his asylum request for almost a decade because of logjams in California, immigration officials quickly ruled against him on the same day as his July 2000 hearing - 31 days short of his 10th anniversary in this country. "That was very unusual," Lawrence said. If Ken had been in the United States a full 10 years before the hearing, he could have applied for legal residency on grounds that deportation would be a hardship on his son, an American citizen. [Link]

And here is why the parents didn't qualify as business owners:

After that ruling, Lawrence sought to "adjust" the Sahs' status, like many others were doing through the immigration system, based on his business ownership. But the possibility of modifying his status evaporated after Sept. 11, 2001, when tourism dropped off precipitously. For a time, he could not carry 10 employees as is required under business ownership status for immigrants. Although he now has 10 employees, it's too late to qualify.[Link]

The whole Spelling bee thing is seriously ucked fup!

Browns would make great quarterbacks. Imagine someone with the decision making ability of Sachin Tendulkar quarterbacking. (obviously not of Tendulkar's size)

India is a big country. It is not necessary to take asylum in the US. There are other states where one can freely go.

hmm. i thought he was from the northeast or kashmir, regions whose hindus would have a more legitimate claim for asylum. but is asylum given to those who could just move to a safer place in the same country (elsewhere in india)? i thought the country as a whole had to be considered dangerous to return to for an individual.

Yo y'all. Life is not that simple. I've seen all kinds of immigrations choices--sensible, crazy, desperate, borderline-legal, flat-out illegal--and what I've learnt is that I can't judge anyone's moves in this matter.

The sea is rough, my people. The sea is rough.

An intriguing case study on desperation. I am humbled by the tenacity of Mr. and Mrs. Shah. Truly inspiring. India does not deserve people like you.

Ennis,

I think they are absolute scams. Hindus in danger, I want to throw up, cry, and laugh - all at the same time.

However,

Let that be, as it is.

They are quite wealthy (in their interview they talk about their tax returns on and on), avail the "best of the best" facilities in India, and get their son ready for college from India to US, and let him be happy.

Amercian Embassy School (Delhi), British High Commission school (Delhi), Doon School (Dehra Dun) - can walk you to Haravrd, if that is what he wants

Bihar has a Muslim majority where Hindus are not safe? Thats a preposterous claim not backed by any evidence whatsoever. I am rather glad that his asinine asylum application was rejected. He of course cannot come back now anytime soon because he will debarred from re-entry (10 years for lying on Asylum application)

I have no problems with people utilizing loopholes in the law to stay over in the US because mostly they dont hurt anyone. Asylums however are a seperate matter altogether and anyone who abuses the asylum system needs to be permanently debarred from entering the US.

Yo y'all. Life is not that simple. I've seen all kinds of immigrations choices--sensible, crazy, desperate, borderline-legal, flat-out illegal--and what I've learnt is that I can't judge anyone's moves in this matter.

I am aware of and have dealt with people making asylum claims of credible fear which are far fetched. Former MQM members 'afraid' to go back to Karachi to Christians 'afraid' to go back to Lebanon, but this dude takes the cake.

Kobayashi - the problem is that choices in this regard have implications for others in the system as well.

Point taken. But the sea is still rough.

By the way, I'm quite tickled by the strange bedfellows that have reached a consensus on this comments thread.

A much more compelling case written up by Amy Goodman this week..

Guys, can we please leave the kid alone in this discussion? The last thing I would want to read as a teenager was other people debating the merits of my parents' suit to live close to me. Or for that matter, that I will not achieve my goals merely because those goals are distant and lofty. It is ridiculous to imagine that this kid has no idea of that fact that it takes more than a spelling bee to get to Harvard.

The spelling bee challenge is important to him because it gives him a goal to keep working at. It is a source of stability for him. None of us knows if his parents "pressured" him, or if he took to spelling bees of his own accord. Heck, the guy might really like doing what he does. Just because it is normative to want to sit around playing on your XBox, it does not mean that anyone who aspires for something else is totally "pressured into it". How is it different from wanting to quarterback or shoot a 3 pointer?

Guys, can we please leave the kid alone in this discussion?

Yes, he looks older but he's only thirteen! I feel bad for him.

But the problem is that many desi parents do put undue emphasis on academics and things like spelling bees. I don't deny that in the coming decades, as America's position in the world declines, a focused, solid education in the right fields will be key to maintaining a good lifestyle...BUT...the kid should be encouraged to do some exercise, and develop friendships, etc. as well. I remember visiting a family in Delhi a while ago...they were so proud of their daughter who was a chess champion of some sort...but the girl was awkward, had no social skills, and no interests other than chess and school. It's a skewed sense of priorities to some extent.

but the girl was awkward, had no social skills, and no interests other than chess and school. It's a skewed sense of priorities to some extent.

But maybe she would have been awkward anyway, and now at least she's awkward and interested in chess. At least you can put that on your college application, as opposed to Dungeons and Dragons.

At least you can put that on your college application, as opposed to Dungeons and Dragons.

True.

Al_Mujahid,

I think you're completely missing what's troubling about this as a policy matter. You're right, getting asylum is extremely difficult and there might be more deserving cases. But note, his parents were here legally and he had his hearing right before the statute ran. The reasons immigration dockets are really clogged are really complex, but assuming you're right and it's mostly undeserving asylum applicants, the kinds of asylum applicants who clog dockets tends to be here illegally.

What's really troubling about this case is that this wouldn't have happened 6 years ago. We have pretty rigid immigration laws, but they used to be deliberately underenforced. This wasn't because we wanted people to break the law, but rather a policy decision that favored screening through deportation over exclusion. The INS would have probably dropped the case six years ago. Now, however, the AG scours dockets to find people to deport or detain for legal infractions that before were generally considered benign. Why? Well I assume for national security reasons. Cast a really broad net and hope you swallow some terrorist sympathizers in the process. Then again, I'm not sure. In any event, I find this deeply troubling and I think you should too.

In any event, I find this deeply troubling and I think you should too.

Yes, I find Sah's con troubling.

Perhaps, ALM would add more, as he is a trained lawyer.

Technically, if you have a change of status application to INS/ USCIS and INS/ USCIS have accepted the application (be it political asylum, EB 1, EB 2, through marriage or any other case), while the case is in review process, you are legal as an advance parolee - it does not matter whether you entered US as legal or illegal, if INS/ USCIS has agreed to pursue your case by granting a temporary work permit and advance parole.

Therefore, their (Sahs) reasoning for being legal has nothing to do with the due process of law, and decision process.

As ALM, MoorNam and others have said too, political asylum is not a category that should be messed with - It is for people who are in cross fire, like in sectarian strife in Iraq, right now. Clogging the system means life and death to them. I find Sah's reasoning quite disturbing.

Somehow, I do not have any sympathy for Sahs, the parents. I get the feeling that they are using their son's presence in America here as "trump card" for hardship plea for rentry. So be it.

I have all sympathy for the kid, but that can be solved easily. I think kid could go to Delhi, come back to Harvard, be what ever he wants to.

I have all sympathy for the kid, but that can be solved easily. I think kid could go to Delhi, come back to Harvard, be what ever he wants to.

Having done the US-India-US thing educationally, it's an interesting and fun experience.

HOWEVER, for someone as old as Kunal, the transistion may be a bit more difficult. I don't know what the curriculum is, but the way I was educated in India in terms of how education 'flowed' was very different. Kids who came later on struggled with it. By 12 grade, a kid would learn the same thing in both places, just not in the same pattern. But if he's willing to put himself through spelling bees and is super motivated, I'm sure he'd adjust to any material.

With regards to his parents situation. Well, they tried using a loop hole in the system and got caught (IMHO). Many immigration situations did get a thorough review post 9-11 as it should have, since the hijackers were here legally. But I don't see the connection between violence in Bihar and having asylum here. As others have mentioned, India is a large country and there are several states known to be quite safe (technically Gujarat, despite the recent riots, is known to be quite safe).

"Perhaps, ALM would add more, as he is a trained lawyer."

the point I'm making is not a legal. I agree on the legal merits. And you're right, status is typically not legally relevant. The point I'm making is an administrative and enforcement one. It's how the nature of immigration prosecution has dramatically changed. As a constitutional matter, you're right, the process is not deficient.

Now, I don't know about the facts of this case. This might be a total con and in that case, I guess you have less sympathy for parents who took on the risk. That said, I still maintain that this would not have happened six years ago. Prosecutions have dramatically increased. Detentions have also increased significantly (from 1,000 to around 25,000).

The status point I was making was simply that if you're going to argue this is a good thing because there are too many frivolous appeals for asylum, you have recognize that the majority of those appeals come from people who are here illegally or have been excluded at the border. Here, we have someone who has been in the country over a decade and is removed right before the statute runs. I find this troubling, not as a legal matter, but as a moral one.

I don't know what the curriculum is, but the way I was educated in India in terms of how education 'flowed' was very different.

That does not matter, if you are enrolled in American High School (run by American Embassy) in New Delhi. His parents are in Delhi, and own two hotels in Utah - they are rich (read their interview in comments above).

Even other schools, like the ones you are talking about adjustment is not that difficult, not at all.

I have done India-US-India-US also, I know hazaar (thousand) cases.

But I don't see the connection between violence in Bihar and having asylum here.

There has been no Hindu-Muslim violence in Bihar in recent history or one that even remotely calls for political asylum.

Gujudude, the problem is, there are X political asylums, US grants a year, with Y people from INS reviewing it, and somebody's life can be saved if Y looks at the real case pronto. It is a carte blanche entry for special cases.

The INS would have probably dropped the case six years ago. Now, however, the AG scours dockets to find people to deport or detain for legal infractions that before were generally considered benign. Why? Well I assume for national security reasons. Cast a really broad net and hope you swallow some terrorist sympathizers in the process. Then again, I'm not sure. In any event, I find this deeply troubling and I think you should too.

All good points. I dont disagree with any of the above. However that still should not give a pass to Sah for clogging the system by making his bogus asylum petition. If all people in the US who can technically file for asylum start filing bogus asylum petitions, it will shut down the system. There is a lot of clamoring to shut down this asylum system and Sah is not helping anybody's cause.

I guess my objection is to the means he used for staying in the US.

Kush:

It was my personal experience that kids from the age of 10-15 who came to India in my school (the Americans) had a tough time adjusting educationally. I wasn't in an American school, though mine was the preferred one for many American expats. It may also have to do with the fact that those kids may have never been all that bright to start with. Just a personal anecdote. Though today, I'm sure there is far more infrastructure available for kids.

I absolutely agree with you and ALMD that the methods this family used weren't right. You do hear stories of those seeking asylum and never getting it, even when the case warrants it.

With regards to the kid having to live without his parents, yea it's tough, but I did it too. Didn't get to see my mom from 1995 through 1997. And that's not even all that bad, compared to those who first ventured out here back in the day and not having an opportunity to return for decades (if ever). The kid has an extended family here, a roof over his head, and a school to go to. I do feel bad that he's staking so much on a spelling bee competition. Education, growth, and life are marathons, not sprints. I hope he keeps chipping away with his long term goal in mind.

Spelling Bee is a big waste of time.. But I guess if you win the national competition that is pretty impressive, and if he wants to be an english major it will look really good.

I would rather spend time in math / science club, atleast in those clubs you learn relevant things that will help you in future classes.

Ah, the good ol "asylum" seekers

And now the "Spelling Bee" twist to it.

How is this differnt from "anchor baby" defense of illegal immigrants who cross the border, give birth and then milk Social Security System?

Gotta admit he does have one creative attorney - to claim a Hindu faced threats to his life in India (which is true in certain regions like Kashmir)

And let us not forget Air India Kanishka b0mbing originating in Canada - by "Canadians" - Khalistani militants who were granted asylum by Canada master minded b0mbing of Kanishka.

And it is a shame even today Canada grants asylum to same "Khalistani freedom fighters" on daily basis - while for all practical purposes Khalistan movement is dead for good in India. Heck, India even has a Sikh Prime Minister.

But every day court rooms of US, Canada, Britain go through the motions of "persecution against Sikh" defense and grant amnesty to illegal immigrants.

There is a whole industry based on asylum drama - sleazy attornies and judges, human smugglers, underworld and what not.

the parents are disgusting.

How is this differnt from "anchor baby" defense of illegal immigrants who cross the border, give birth and then milk Social Security System?

simple. when illegals cross the rio grande and as you imply "drop anchor," their community here embraces them, helps them, protects them from deportation by any and all means, regardless of legality, because they foremost care for their brothers and sisters.

what do we do?

the parents are disgusting.

How do you say "asshole" in Gujarathi?[sic]

Ok, this guy is obviouly a con man.

ken needs to go and find barbie.and find the dreamhouse to live in. seriously bad parenting.

Take SAT from India ... go to American Embassy school in Delhi.

Kobayashi is right, life is NOT that simple. they were here for 9 years and 11 months, and 31 days before the golden 10 year number the system screws them royally. they are trying to claw back. ever been separated from your child by INS edict?

let he who is w/out karma cast the first stone

Gangtok Slim: I'm happy that most of us Hindu-Americans don't reflexively support people from our community when they are in the wrong. There is a bias in the media/academia against Hindus no doubt, but that does not condone the propagation of a lie. Bihari Muslims and Hindus are all victims of the abject failure of the Bihari state law enforcement & judicial system, blaming an entire community for some bogus wrongs for economic gain is despicable.

I'm an immigrant, enroute to citizenship - I arrived here via the usual desi F1 - H1B path. I'm not sure why mr 'Sah' chose the asylum route, with a degree in aeronautical engineering (he obviously had some seriously bad advisors). At the same time, I can't help feeling sorry for him. While it is pretty obvious that his asylum plea was BS, how many of us have not BSed the consulate officer during our F1 and H1 interviews ("Yes Sar, only too yars - I will dafinetly come back after master degree to phamily proparty..!!").

With regards to the kid, heck, the real value of any achievement in high school isn't as much the achievement itself, but the abililty to bust your ass to win at something, be it football or a spelling bee. (I don't even want to get started about these pseudo goras who smirk at asian kids who somehow cannot excel at cheerleading or throwing a football)

with a degree in aeronautical engineering

In another article it says that his degree is in aircraft mechanics.

how many of us have not BSed the consulate officer during our F1 and H1 interviews

And how many will complain thereafter that they were "wronged" when they don't get the visa (without taking into account that they are making it even harder for people who tell the truth)?

The red herring about the number of days before the 10 year limit -- Sah basically made the decision to try and game the system years earlier when he submitted his asylum application. He shouldn't complain that the rules caught up to him, and we shouldn't defend him on those grounds.

"Mr. Sah should have come here legally like my ancestors (and me) !!! " --- A typical Tom Tancredo line.
The reality is that there is no real "legal" way for brown skinned people (from India atleast) to migrate to the US unless their family sponsor them.

In student visa process, students have to show ungodly amounts of property in India, about which most applicants routinely lie and mis-represent. That is part of the LEGAL way !!!! The property requirement is kind of a collateral for the opportunity for a cosulate office to review his/her appplication. Just review !!! The US government does not want immigrants to come via F1 (or atleast the US Consulate gives that impession)

Most Americans think that there is some "application process" that one does to come here legally. They dont know that there is no such thing, not atleast for citizens of India as they are not even eligible for the VISA lottery. (or you inherit the right to live in this land via family sponsorship)

I hate those the most who just got here during the Y2k craze because they could do some stupid programming and considere themselves the smartest persons after C. V. Raman or Bose to come from India, and lecture others on "legal" route.

Having said the above, I think the majority population of this nation has the right to have whatever kind of immigration policy (like the present race based) that they wish to. Just dont be so fucking sanctimonious about it.

In student visa process, students have to show ungodly amounts of property in India, about which most applicants routinely lie and mis-represent. That is part of the LEGAL way !!!!

Yes, and No.

Neither do I or my brother was asked to show anything extra when we went for our F-visa ages ago. The visa officer asked for our I-20s. My interview lasted 1 minute (1 Question: Why do you want to do graduate studies in US?), and she (visa officer) cut me in the middle curtly, and stamped approval. In fact, everyone in my campus hometown (Roorkee), and my parents and relatives recommended only one thing: Don't lie and answer only what they ask, nothing more.

Moral of the story: There are no fixed rules. I know sometimes, they do ask for financial standing in India.

Saying something verbally to visa officer, and making an application dossier on a false premise (political asylum) are not same things, not even in neighboring leagues

I concur with the people who look askance at Sah's decision-making skills with regard to immigration. I mean, the guy could have filed for normal immigration status, or tried for a work visa, or filed for a student visa. But he tried for a long-shot: political asylum. Then, when he knew full well that his legal status in this country was not defined, he started opening businesses. Good for him that he's ambitious, but hey, he knew this risk existed when he started down this path. And before the whining shoots off into the ultrasonic and my dogs start barking, he does have the option to sell his businesses, too. It'll be a fire-sale, sure, but it's better than leaving the country with nothing. Even $100,000 will go a long way to starting over again in India.

And like a bunch of other people have noted, what's up with the decision to leave their son behind in America? That's crazy. He's 13! He can't fend for himself yet. They may have discussed this as a family, but it smacks of the kind of selfish parenting that I hear about all the time, and it drives me nuts.

salil,

do read his interview linked by me and ALM earlier.

ken sah came here as a student, then filed for political asylum (within a year here, as per rules). in his own words, marriage to american was out of question, and at that time, job was shakey in airline industry in early 90s, and he could not find anything stable - all his words, not mine.

he now owns 2.5 hotels, that is a lot of dough. his brother co-owns (one of them), co-runs all of them now, and his son is with the brother. the son will always own the business.

if they take their son back to india, he can come and go to USA freely, but Sah, the parents have their gates closed for 10 years. By keeping him here - they are appealing hardship to an American citizen, their son. from their viewpoint, it is quite a smart, yet selfish (causing undue hardship to the son) move.

Even $100,000 will go a long way to starting over again in India.

their yearly income taxes are $100,000 as per interview, and they hired 10 people. they are quite rich, and all the drama is about money right now.

I got all those points, KT, and I did read the interviews. I'm not sure what exactly you think I'm missing.

If they had to sell their shares of 2.5 hotels for ONLY $100,000 (I pulled the number out of the air, not from their income tax quote), they'd still be fine in India. That's my point. And as you and I and others have said, they're beyond selfish in leaving their son behind. How can they expect special treatment, just because they make dumb decisions repeatedly over the span of decades, and without any sense of remorse or shame?

What precisely entitles this guy to apply for asylum? I don't see him as "screwed by the system" when his application gets rejected 9 years and 11 months into the process. No, I see it as the system catching up to a long-standing mistake just before a total jackass snuck into the country ahead of deserving political refugees from places like Somalia and the Sudan.

salil,

i just thought your $100,000.00 number was way low for them, that is why i commented.

anyhow, inspite of all.........

i do admire their business acumen, and i can see them putting up a fight, that is perfectly OK - a lot of money is @ stake. just social security benefits for taxes worth $100,000 added for many years, and they do not want their net worth erode of owing 2.5 hotels - i think that is all OK.

i like many (including you) are only upset by their modus operandi.

as my parents were Tamil residents of Colombo during the 83 riots (a tragedy whether you are naive or foolish and believe it to be a spontaneous eruption of Sinhala chauvinism or are rational and believe it to be largely the creation of governmental power)we could have easily claimed political refugee status, upon entering the US, as the bloodthirsty mob came upon my parent's apt in Bambalapitiya that night, not to offer love cake and upland tea, but to rape, burn and pillage as they may.

this boy's father's argument that he was persecuted as a radical rightist Hindu doesn't seem to hold much water (in either Bihar or Gujurat depending on which story you read--Bihar presents a better numbers argument for him than Gujurat and Gujurat definitely is the more volatile state)) so one would look askance, as an informed person, at any immigration/homeland security officer throwing his/her arms open in welcome to such an obvious extremist (given the current national mood on security--a general feeling of insecurity.) I always like to compare this to the US starting a drive to admit large numbers of Pol Pot's senior officers back to the States in an effort to protect a persecuted minority. Knowledge of the simple base material or perhaps a taxing google search would have afforded this immigration officer with the knowledge to render a fair and just decision: deny request for asylum.

It is entirely possible that this 15-16 year delay was afforded by either a loophole in prior immigration law or the clever machinations of Sah's attorneys--however I find it hard to believe that if the initial immigration officer had made the correct determination that this would have been allowed to come to this point. There are many people waiting for the chance to enter this country and achieve financial stability--the Sah's should not get a chance over all the others just because some government employee failed to do his/her homework.

There are, however, many such VHP or RSS affiliated NRIs in the US. Many of them operate successful businesses or are professionals and, like Ken Sah, do not make many waves upon entering the US and do not court violence, controversy or any kind of sweeping change (unless you count the textbook controversy). Don't the Sah's look like the very kind of wacko religious fundamentalist that we would want in America? Someone who doesn't bring their perceived "medieval fight" to the the states? I was seriously disappointed by the conservative blogosphere's reaction to this piece--much 'open-borders libbers" comments but none on how thoroughly Mr. Sah's ideology excoriates, denigrates and demonizes Islam and all Muslims. I would have thought that would raise a cheer from the Debbie Schlussels, Michelle Malkins, Robert Spencers and M. Savage's of the world who genuinely believe that Islam is unreformable and all pious Muslims (or all Muslims who do not spontaneously jump to the fore of their social circle to exclaim in triumphant tones, "oh I am saved, lord, from the terrorism-fostering ways of my religion!) to be somehow defective and thus deserving of much higher levels of scrutiny than any other kind of immigrant.

There are, however, many such VHP or RSS affiliated NRIs in the US. Many of them operate successful businesses or are professionals and, like Ken Sah, do not make many waves upon entering the US and do not court violence. Don't the Sah's look like the very kind of wacko religious fundamentalist that we would want in America? Someone who doesn't bring their perceived "medieval fight" to the the states?

I have spoken to a lawyer and activists who have worked with the families of some British citizens who were caught up in the Gujarat riots, British citizens of Gujarati Muslim descent who were visiting family at the time. It is important to know that British citizens visiting Gujarat at the time were murdered by mobs. I won't go into details, but Gujarati Muslims living in the UK have been taunted and persecuted by RSS and VHP people in England, the same people that hosted Modi and cheered him as a Hindu hero in Wembley. They have deep roots in the UK too, a VHP affiliated charity is under investigation by the British charity commission for siphoning money meant for earthquake relief into fascist schools and activity in India. It's almost impossible to get the mainstream press interested in these stories though, because it does not fit into the narrative of the model minority and all eyes are fixed solely on Muslim extremism at the moment. And these people are 'respectable' middle class men and women, ostensibly well integrated into British society.

Don't the Sah's look like the very kind of wacko religious fundamentalist that we would want in America? Someone who doesn't bring their perceived "medieval fight" to the the states? I was seriously disappointed by the conservative blogosphere's reaction to this piece--much 'open-borders libbers" comments but none on how thoroughly Mr. Sah's ideology excoriates, denigrates and demonizes Islam and all Muslims.

How do you know that? Sah used the 'Muslim persecuting him' reason as a means of staying in the US and not because he hates Muslims. He should have gone with lower caste or Christian or something.

Anyway, I cant imagine that he actually believed that he had a credible fear of going back to India. I havnt seen any evidence that he had any animus towards Muslims. For all we know he might be an atheist.

Root for Kunal! Root 4 Kunal! Root Kunal!

Should be a lot of desi dentists cheering for him then ;)

Illankan, you're reading way too much into it. This guy (Sah) cooked up a (bullshit) reason to claim asylum...and that's probably all there is to it. I don't think it reflects any real beliefs or ideologies he may have. In all likelihood he's too preoccupied with making money and raising an uber-academic kid to bother with the RSS or VHP or anything like that.

#47 Kush,
You were lucky that you were not asked to mis-represent or lie, so was I. It was just mere luck that some of us did not have to answer some of those questions, but lets not forget that during the mid and early nineties majority of student visa seeker's were asked to show property and had to convice US consulate officers that they are not seeking to immigrate to the US. So when after F1 and H1 a student (turned worker) applies for immigration, there are chances that he/she is doing something that he/she claimed he/she would NOT do as a condition to enter this great nation.

This guy is just not as lucky as some of us "legal route -ers" who were born into upper middle class or inherited the right to enter this nation.

Actually, an H-1 visa applicant is allowed to have "dual-intent" meaning the intent to immigrate, and does not have to demonstrate that he/she will return to their home country.

The US government does not want immigrants to come via F1 (or atleast the US Consulate gives that impession)

There are more than 80,000 Indian students studying in the U.S. I think you'll find that the opposite is true.

Actually, an H-1 visa applicant is allowed to have "dual-intent" meaning the intent to immigrate, and does not have to demonstrate that he/she will return to their home country.

that is true.

also, RC, you are confusing issues. Often if the student was admitted on full assistantship or fellowship (as shown on I-20) by the uni or foundation, for most part, the consulate officer at US embassies would not ask for any additional documentation. sometimes, asking for financial documentation, they tried to determine whether the students that were fully/ partly self-funded their veracity of claim, also the student's primary intent in education (they give thousands of students from india visa every year, and some of them are really not students or even qualified to be students - again misrepresentation of highest order). true, i know "immigration question and other demeaning questions***" used to come during student visas in 90s, but that was their filter in determining other things - they all knew most of the students immigrate. there was always a pecking order in these things - an iit student headed for PhD at Caltech on full financial aid is not asked anything. be as it may be, that is the way things are.

there is even separate category for H-1B for students educated (MS/ PhD) in US from last few years. sometimes, employers go to India and other countries, to hire nurses and physicians straight on H-1 and other visas. it is all supply and demand.

you know that they have been cases when US citizenship has been stripped away many years later if some one on paper lied on their visa/ immigration issues earlier.

*** i also know if you are from Germany or other western european countries, and apply for student visa, such questions do not even exist. these are facts.

again, i find no justification in supporting someone's elaborate lie, and demonizing a community (muslims in this case) for your financial gain

an iit student headed for PhD at Caltech on full financial aid is not

What percentage of total student visa applicant fit the above profile ?? This is unfortunately again an elitist look at the issue. Majority of students do NOT come to us with full assistantship. Why would American state's tax payers pay for education of a foreign national?? I know that in certain cases the University uses the assistantships as a recruiting tool to get the best and brightest, but lets face it those are minority students.
Let me give you an example. My roommate at a state Uni. here was from IIT Madras with a super high GPA (somewhere in the 9's) and 2390 GRE score. I have seen his score with my own eyes. This exceptional individual did not get funding to study Comp. Sc in which he had undergrad, so he had to chose Biomedical Engineering.

You'd probably get your visa without any major scrutiny if at least one of the following hold: a) US News has a good opinion of your college, b) you have been offered full financial support. But the latter is more important as if you don't have financial support you are supposed to have around $50,000 in your account, which is impossible for most Indians unless they have a rich uncle in the US(or some substitute like really rich daddy). In the past if you were smart you could get financial support, but this is getting harder and harder. The result is that the smart-but-no-rich-uncle category is not even bothering to apply anymore, making things even easier for ho-hum-with-rich-uncles. Of course when I say ho-hum I mean ho-hum only by Indian standards, which is still pretty good(thanks to the that-which-does-not-kill Indian education system). But its still a sad situation for smart guys who don't come from well-off backgrounds.

I would rather spend time in math / science club, atleast in those clubs you learn relevant things that will help you in future classes.

hmm, spelling bee is to languages (and so maybe later if the kid does choose to go that way, to literature or journalism, proofreading, linguistics) what Maths/Physics Olympiads are to maths/science. You are showing a bias towards science and maths deeming them useful as opposed to language based competitions which may not necessarily be true (though I'd rather they did vocabulary competitions as opposed to spelling ones)

Interestingly in India, Maths/Physics Olympiads along with the NTSE (National Talent Search Examination) are the more prestigious and coveted competitions, while in the US spelling bees are pretty high on the prestige list. May be a reflection of societal preferences for choice of career (though media coverage for bees may be a factor too).

My roommate at a state Uni. here was from IIT Madras with a super high GPA (somewhere in the 9's) and 2390 GRE score.

wow, what is this place. The example you give might be true but its very rare, unless the dude is in a top 3-4 University or was too specific in his application.

As for the financial proof during a visa interview, the whole idea behind it is to make sure that students who are coming here without funding have a source of funds from back home so that they dont caught in a situation where they cant afford to pay their fees etc and do something illegal etc. Nothing wrong with that, the problem comes when some of the visa officers get over zealous and start harassing people - like those with funding.

Things are not that simple (seas are rough; a poor man's only choice)

Here,

Sah vs. Gonzales (10th Circuit Court, 2005) via Overlawyered

Personally, I think he is caught up in his own web of lies, since Babri Masjid was not destroyed till 1992, he had left India in 1990.

As I said, there is a serious con here.

Sah noted that he "took a very active part in organizing and conducting [anti-mosque] meeting[s]" and that he "actively participated in the riots to [attempt to] demolish the Babri Mosque." Id.

Lovely. We must grant him asylum ASAP.

Ok this is beyond comical.

Sah's original asylum application provided evidence of his role in the persecution of Muslims by stating that Sah had a leadership role in a group favoring the demolition of the Babri Mosque. Sah bore the burden of refuting this evidence and demonstrating that he was not disqualified from seeking asylum. See Hernandez v. Reno, 258 F.3d 806, 812 (8th Cir. 2001); see also Elzour v. Ashcroft, 378 F.3d 1143, 1151 n.10 (10th Cir. 2004) (applying a similar allocation of burdens under a different provision of § 1158(b)(2)(A)).

LOL!

The example you give might be true but its very rare,

And yeah, watching 60 minutes today I realized, that there is another way brown people will be able to LEGALLY immigrate to the US. If only the brownland is fortunate to be INVADED by the US and there are massive fuck-ups of all sorts. Then the brown people will be welcome (as long as they are not muslim, which is what is happening to Iraqis).

I think he is caught up in his own web of lies, since Babri Masjid was not destroyed till 1992, he had left India in 1990.

Legal merits( it looks more like de-merits) of the Sah case is a seperate issue, which must have been ruled based on evidence and precedence.

RC, I may be confused, but are you seriously arguing that illegal immigration is the only way in to this country? That every first genner here is either "illegal" or, at the very least, abused the system?

I think there's clearly a difference between someone who goes through the established process of being educated and trained in the USA and someone who whines about a bullshit asylum claim being overruled (granted, letting it hang for 10 years is awful on the US gov't part). I feel bad for this kid, but I have to say that his parents are just as blameworth as our government. Wouldn't the kid remain a US citizen, even living in India? Wouldn't he still be eligible for all the same educational opportunities as other American citizens? In fact, assuming he had the right grades and SAT score, wouldn't an application essay regarding his experience of being forcibly taken back to a "homeland" he'd never seen raise a lot more Harvard admissions committee eyebrows than "guys, I won the spelling bee"? I just think that the incredible emotional pain he must be going through is really not worth whatever he gains by staying. His parents had a role in choosing to split up the family, and they easily could have taken him home.

I don't want to beat this into the ground or anything, but the whole "root for the Desi spelling bee champ" trend annoys me too. I know that some people think that the spelling bee represents some huge leap in Desi English-language skills, but I don't see it. It's just rote memorization, and displays none of the creative spark necessary to succeed in language-based disciplines (this doesn't mean that spelling bee winners wouldn't do well in these disciplines, it's just that these are two separate skill sets). Spelling bees are just exercises in cramming as much unrelated, undefined, useless information into your brain as possible. And they test a skill that is increasingly useless in our society thanks to Microsoft Word and online dictionaries. This kind of learning might help you succeed in certain kinds of academic fields, but it's AWFUL training for the complex problem solving required in the real world. From that perspective, a science-based club probably would be far more useful, since it at least teaches creative thinking and planning skills. But show me a Desi who won a literary contest or got a short story published and I would be even more impressed, since that would take true language skills, as well as a huge degree of self-confidence.

are you seriously arguing that illegal immigration is the only way in to this country?

I am not arguing. I am just stating facts. If a person is of Indian ancestory wishes to immigrate to the US, he/she has to be either born with the right to immigrate to this nation (as in familial sponsorship) or has to prove as a student visa applicant that he/she will NOT seek immigration. There is NO argument about these facts. They are just facts of US Immigration policy.

That every first genner here is either "illegal" or, at the very least, abused the system?

None of the above applies to Europeans.

I just want to point the race based system that US Immigration is, to point out that people dont really want to break the law.

Sorry, RC, but your knowledge of U.S. immigration law is as far from accurate as you can get in this case.

First, student visas, commonly known as F-1 visas (or F-4 for accompanying family members) are non-immigrant visas, meaning that you cannot immigrate to the U.S. using this visa. Getting an F-1 does not allow you to apply for permanent residence. (You may find a job and change your F to an H-1 and then have your employer apply with you for permanent residence, but that's another story).

Second, if a person wishes to immigrate to the U.S., and has a valid, approved immigrant petition to do so, there is no need to prove that you will return to India. That is the point, and the main difference, from non-immigrant visas. Also, while there is a legal right to immigrant in these petition-based cases, it's important to remember that this is based in immigration law that can be changed by an act of Congress. It is not a right under the U.S. Constitution, nor a God-given right.

Third, the rules regarding students applies to Europeans as well. A student from Portugal, for instance has to meet the same legal requirements as a student from India.

There are so many myths about immigration and the immigration process out there, many of which are fostered by touts willing to abuse the unsuspecting applicants and to sell them bad information. Please don't add to that mix.

fsowalla,
I have gone thru' F1, H1 to Green card to citizenship (not approved yet) process. Please dont tell me what F1 stands for.

Second, if a person wishes to immigrate to the U.S., and has a valid, approved immigrant petition to do so

On what basis???

A EU citizen does not even need a visitor's visa to visit the US. EU student needs a student visa to study in the US, but EU student is not the same in the eyes of the US Immigration as a Indian/Pakistani student.

Second, if a person wishes to immigrate to the U.S., and has a valid, approved immigrant petition to do so

On what basis???

Family based and Employment mostly.

The discussion started with the family and now its immigration being discussed. I think some people are similar to sah's. Atleast from Sah's case it's clear that they would like to come back but not sure what others here are trying to accomplish. As for Kunal, he is a US citizen may be better than couple of immigrants who still have jealous mentality.

Okay, all of you guys who wrote negative comments are all wrong. IT WAS MY DAMN CHOICE TO STAY BACK IN AMERICA!! And whoever wrote stupid comments about my mother and father, should take them back. They came legally here, and they applied for asylum BEFORE his visa expired. So, if they did that, and it still got denied, then there's no fault in them. So, you guys that wrote negative comments should pack your bullshit and find some other thing to do than vandalize websites with wrong information.

There are a lot of comments here, but I saw an article in the NY Times about this today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/us/06speller.html?hp

Interesting excerpts:

Mr. Sah, who was born in India, came to the United States in 1990 and shortly before his entry visa expired the next year he applied for political asylum, saying that if he was forced to return to his home province in southeastern India he would be targeted by Muslims because of his involvement in a group called Vishwa Hindu Parishad, which he described as committed to Hindu nationalism.

Mr. Sah acknowledged in his application that he had been active in organizing a campaign against Babri Mosque, in northern India, because it was “built on our sacred land” and that he “actively participated” in riots intended to demolish it.

In 1992, after Mr. Sah had immigrated to the United States, Hindu extremists destroyed the mosque.

In denying him haven, immigration officials noted that Mr. Sah “had participated in the persecution of non-Hindus and thus was ineligible for asylum.”

If this is the case, I have to say that this seems much more than an asylum case gone awry, and I don't have much sympathy for the parents, although the kid is in a bad situation now.