March 18, 2007
Research NOT to conduct with daddyNews
For those of you who missed it, there was a groundbreaking study out of Texas last week:
The traditional theory of beauty says that for every man who chases the voluptuous type, such as Jordan or Marilyn Monroe, there is another who prefers to woo a waif such as Twiggy or Kate Moss.
But this and the idea that beauty is subjective and ever-changing has been overturned by Prof Devendra Singh and his daughter Adrian Singh…The psychologists from the University of Texas today publish research showing that lovestruck men have only one thing on their minds: a woman’s WHR - waist-hip ratio, calculated by dividing waist circumference by that of the hips.
Jordan and Twiggy have something in common: both have waists that are noticeably narrower than their hips and Prof Singh has found evidence this “belle curve” is ingrained in the male brain in his studies of Playboy centrefolds, the ancient Egyptians and tests on men from Africa to the Azores. [Link]
Ok, I know this is science but…eeeww. If I had a daughter I wouldn’t want to be looking through stacks of Playboy magazines with her, even if it was for the good of science (which I normally support). Anecdotally, I know these two have hit upon the correct theory. Just this past weekend I leaned over to a friend and mentioned that I was totally “crushing on that girl’s WHR.”
The team also found the hourglass in ancient literature. Two ancient Indian epics, Mahabharata and Ramayana (first to third century), and Chinese sixth dynastic Palace poetry also link attractiveness with a wasp waist.
Consider, for instance, the description by Chinese writer Xu Ling (507-583): “Beautiful women in the palace of Chu, there were none who did not admire their slender waist; the fair woman of Wei.” Similarly, the Mahabharata contains the description: “accept this slender-waisted damsel for thy spouse…” [Link]
abhi on March 18, 2007 11:08 PM in Humor, News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
"belle curve" - ha ha ha.
Also, am I clueless? Who's Jordan? When I think of Jordan I think of Michael. Or, like, the country.
Great question! I couldn't figure it out either. I am counting on one of the Brits to inform us since this article was in a British paper. Picture would be appreciated.
This is Jordan, y'all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_(Katie_Price)
Sorry, my link-iness is out of whack, but if you want a giggle, check out her 'A Whole New World' vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUfpCebOmFE
Talk about over-the-top! I only wish it were in color . . .
And I think she could kill me with those boobs.
I'm no Brit, but I think they're talking about this completely normally proportioned vixen.
If they aren't talking about her, they should be anyways.
This has been a well kept secret down in Austin for years. They have been milking this research for years. From what I hear the magic number is 0.7.
Chickpea I know you'll be checking this out, so congrats on the Trojans finally pulling one out on the Horns this time. I'm sure Coach Floyd will go have another drink with the coeds after this one and check out their WHR.
... What happened to the famous TA ratio?
The trouble is that they're deliberately correlating "slender" with "wasp-like" in order to prove their research.
One can have a slender waist without necessarily having larger hips or the nipped-in, "wasp"-like appearance. Is Twiggy's waist not slender? ^__^
And doesn't the Mahabharata also describe one of its heroines as having bright red eyes? One can't simply pick a sentence from the world's longest written text and use it to prove a point. (Unless you're me, and just did.)
Its also a little disconcerting how quickly being indian morphed into having an interest in or knowledge of Sanjaya these past weeks. I don't like American Idol, or watch the show, but I've become a go-to-guy all of a sudden. Not by most people, but enough people to where it's noticeable. It makes me a little concerned about how easily some negative turn of events can lead people to react negatively to desis. What is to stop some random person who thinks its ok on some level to make this kind of association from over-reacting and causing someone harm? That this does not happen is a tribute to the rationality of people, but it would be better if it was simply not the case at all. It would also be better if rivers were made of chocolate and I could be Spiderman, but still
sorry, wrong thread. SM Intern, please delete if you can
please check out frequency dependent selection when considering these sort of generalizations. i am suspecting now that "mixed strategies" within the population, and perhaps within an individual, are pretty common among humans. the modal (most common) preference might not be the only one in the population simply because various niches always exist. consider for example the possibility that high estrogen correlates with "ideal" W:H ratio, but it also correlates with daughters. in high status societies with male reproductive skew (i.e., high status males have lots more children than low status ones) women with lower W:H ratio might do better if they are inclined to birth more males. of course, the surplus of males will result in a premium on females, and so the cycle will re-equilibrate. my point is that we need more layers of subtly and nuance toward evolutionary psychological explanations.
I don't see what's new about this - isn't it the oldest idea in the book? Other than the weirdness of a father-daughter team conducting the research.
More interesting to me is this story, via Google News, that reports that men in the US eat fewer vegetables than women at equivalent income/education levels. I thought that happened mainly in India, part of the whole "men get the proteins and women are supposed to be self-denying and virtuous" thing. I guess men all over are the same, then.
daughter named Adrian Singh? The unisex name thang has gone too far.
Hip to waist ratio is used by those of us in the fitness field to determine your overall health risk. So it makes sense that it woukld figure into our standards of beauty. Health is attractive.
I can't imagine looking at nudies pics with my father though. Ewww. Gross.
oh, come on. this theory has been doing the round for years. so, let's think about this. what about the breasts and the legs and for god sake, the eyes? the waist-to-hips ratio may be some geeky attempt to define a beauty standard, but it's a feeble try. we can all attest when cupid strikes,it rarely follows some strict mathematical formulae.
I've always personally believed that symmetry has something to do with attraction, which is why I always bring a mirror and ruler on a date...which is why I rarely go out on dates...
Its all about the booty not beauty and this just goes to prove what every rap video with all the jiggilaciousness has been doing.
From what I understand, it's health as it's directly correlated with fertility and the ability to reproduce?
Hip to waist ratio is used by those of us in the fitness field to determine your overall health risk
From what I understand, it's health as it's directly correlated with fertility and the ability to reproduce?
It is one of the best predictors of one's heart attack risk. Also risk of breast cancer. WHR is a good indicator of mortality in older people in general. BMI is falling somewhat out of favor as the risk indicator, especially as it doesn't figure in body fat percentage. I gotta get the calipers on you to know for sure.
According to my BMI, I should lose a bit of weight but I actually have very little body fat. My HWR is fine though.
Pretty sure the sociological reasoning behind the two situations are different though. I don't think the problem is availability and/or rationing of protein here, so much as different social expectations to be "healthy-looking".
I'm sure it is ;)
I was going to say, Rappers figured this out a long time ago yo.
"I've always personally believed that symmetry has something to do with attraction"
Beautiful, computer says yes
interesting though that the story i linked to and the one that is the subject of this post both deal with women's beauty and rating that. the scientists in both focus on women. then or now, women continue to bear enormous pressure when it comes to looks.
I've always personally believed that symmetry has something to do with attraction
beauty is multi-dimensional. i don't say that to be PC, symmetry is one angle, population 'averageness' is another (related to symmetry), but exaggeration of secondary sexual characteristics is another (e.g., H:W ratio). there isn't a silver bullet.
Oh, the W-H ratio: This explains why at least three men find me attractive.
Finally - scientific appreciation for my badunkee.
I have serious problems with "Evolutionary Psychologists" or "Physical Anthropologists" or whatever you want to call them. I mean, I admit that humans are part of the animal kingdom, but these scientists/scholars are always looking for precise formulas about why certain physical characteristics are "adaptive" (i.e., conducive to continuation of 'the species').... but it's been used for everything from breast size to baldness.
We used to joke that one of the professors at my school (quite renowned in physical anthro) was in the field and did work on why younger women were attracted to older men was "adaptive" because it justified him having affairs with his 20-something grad students. Eww. We also joked that his "studies" were showing men stick figure drawings of women with big boobs vs. regular stick figures and asking men which drawing was more "appealing"? That was an exaggeration, but not by much.
Yay! There is hope for guju women like myself who have heard their mothers and grand mothers lament about 'child bearing' hips.
I think Sir Mix-a-Lot almost independently arrived at the same conclusion.
Wasp-y waist! No wonder my lil sis always got the guys!!! Now she's gonna marry a WASP guy. ;-)
* Yay! There is hope for guju women like myself who have heard their mothers and grand
* mothers lament about 'child bearing' hips.
Don't worry, they are doing research on purifying Nairobi Samosas (no doubt, the best samosas in the world!) so the next generation will have no reasons to lament, and can continue to enjoy their samosas.
I think it's all conditional. Depending on what is touted as the "ideal physique" by one's culture and the media, people will go for that.
There is some tribe in Africa where the young girls are stuffed sick with food to obesity because that is considered attractive to their tribesmen. These girls don't have small waists or the ratio being discussed here.
I've noticed that with tests and statistics, they come mostly from North America, Canada and Western Europe, and the results are considered to be the "norm" for the entire planet.