March 20, 2007
The Great Achar of WiganFood
Behold: The lime pickle. Not the chili pickle, the mango pickle, the garlic pickle, the eggplant pickle, or any other kind of pickle. And certainly not that abomination, the “mixed pickle.” This here is lime pickle, the greatest and more exalted of all the pickles.
Man, me and lime pickle go back a long, long way. You see, in all my mixed-up, tri-continental, ruthlessly secular upbringing, desi food always held its rightful place. Now we lived in France, not a major center of desi culture either then or now, and this was before the globalization of so-called ethnic gourmet cuisine made the basic spices and ingredients available in all the world’s major cities. But we made do, and the key to our survival, desi food-wise, was the one line of prepared foods, spice mixes and achars on the market, which was inevitably Patak’s. So there was always a bottle of curry paste around — not to serve as the sole ingredient, of course, but to accelerate the process. And whether the curry was prepared from a paste or from scratch, there was always lime pickle on hand to give it the necessary je ne sais quoi.
To this day lime pickle is one of the essential condiments in my refrigerator — that and Dijon mustard (the proper smooth kind, not the grainy stuff), a combination that I guess pretty much encapsulates the flavors of my childhood. I find uses for lime pickle that other people don’t have — or so I think. Except I know that now, as I confess to you that I add lime pickle to my tuna fish salad, a whole bunch of you are going to reveal that you do the same.
When I came back to the U.S. and started shopping at desi immigrant stores I was quite bewildered by the range of achars available, and the ever-growing number of manufacturers. I tried garlic pickles and coriander pickles and who knows what other kind of pickles, and found them ranging in appeal from heavenly to disgusting. Even within each type there is so much variation, in color and texture and smell, which you can often discern even when the vacuum sealed jar is still shut. There are pickles made in the U.S. and pickles made in the U.K. and pickles made at mysterious industrial parks all over India and Pakistan; South Indian pickles claiming additional properties that are indecipherable to my mongrel-Bong knowledge base; chunky pickles and pickles so smooth they seem to have been pureed.
I learned long ago to appreciate pickles other than the Patak’s of my childhood. But the sentimental connections linger. It was a pioneering brand and the first to make it big on the international market, even if the Guju-Kenyan owners of the Wigan firm had to drop an “h” from their name to make the pronunciation, if not always the taste, easier on the firangi tongue. Then a few years ago they had that classic family feud that ended up settled out of court. And now Patak’s is up for full or partial sale, for a reported GBP 200m, in order to raise capital to take it to whatever the next level is in the packaged and prepared Indian foods market. It even seems that Patak’s might be coming home, so to speak, as Indian conglomerate ITC is reported to have put in a bid. Apparently Heinz is also interested. Will we have a battle royal between Indian and American capital for control of the flagship achar brand?
Ah, for the artisanal pickles of our halcyon days. Anyone out there make their own achar? I’d be interested in learning how it’s done.
siddhartha on March 20, 2007 07:02 PM in Business, Food · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
nimbu achar is what being kicked in the head by a mule wearing 2x4s for mule-shoes TASTES like. not even slightly sublte... but briliant.
Oh MAN! Get out of my head. Patak's Extra-Hot Lime Pickle is where it's at, baby. I used to eat it straight out of the bottle with a spoon. No, I was not pregnant.My poor husband just shakes his head as I buy 10 bottles at a time during my monthly Indian grocery run. Because it's not pretty when I've run out of pickles. I haven't tried it in my tuna salad but I do mix it into my scrambled eggs.
Patak's mango pickle holds the same place for me. The only lime pickle I ever enjoyed was my grandmother's. :-)
There is nothing quite like piping hot, fresh fresh slightly liquidy kichari topped with a dollop of ghee, crispy pappadums, and a spoonful of mango pickle. MMMM.
I love mango pickle on toast, mango pickle in rice. I'll drizzle the oil from the jar on puffed rice. Wonderful stuff.
Being a Southie it's tough to abide by "bottled" pickles.......
The tried and true is mango or lemon, mustard seeds and chilli powder. Sauteed (not sure what the equivalent English word would be).
FWIW Patak's and other bottled brands are not bad. Just tough to compete with grandma's special.
I was thinking about this the other day there are such a crazy amount of varieties of South Indian pickles (and North to, but less familiar with those). You could almost open up a "pickle shop" just selling different types of pickles.
Siddhartha!
You missed the better headline cuz! It should have been:
The Road to Wigan Pickle
Because George Orwell doesnt get repped enough on this site! Especially in the context of pickles!
Mango achar and cheese sandwiches are weirdly awesome.
Mmmm... Patak's pickles... [drools]
I used to hate pickle because it was so pungent, but love rice with yogurt and pickle now. I'm North Indian by heritage but South Indian by geography and family choice =)
Incidentally, this reminds me of my latest trip to the Asian grocery story in Philadelphia. The most enlightening sign was an aisle called "Various Types of Cans"
And it was quite descriptive!
The best pickle I have had by far is the homemade mango pickle you can buy in bulk and then bring home and put in your own glass jar so everyone thinks you made it yourself.
Pre 9/11 you could even get it canned and bring it back to the states. I myself did this after a 6 month stay in India.
I had two cans one of sweet chundo and of spicy mango. Well I am unpacking my bag and I notice one of the cans is fine, intact, normal shape. However, another can is bulging at one end, about to explode, apparently all the air was not vacuumed out when it was sealed.
My mom and I go about opening the cans and putting them in our own glass jars. The chundo can was fine and opened no problem. We sensed the bulging can would cause some problems so we *smartly* put the can inside a big steel vasun and proceeded to stick the can-opener in it to open it up. BIG MISTAKE.
As soon as we inserted the can opener a liquid gush of urdur tinted oil shoots THREE FEET up into the air. We both sit there stupidly, mesmerized by this exploding volcano of mango pickle oil. Finally my mom has the sense to place her hand over the hole and stop the spewing flow of oil. At lease we had *smartly* put the vasun underneath the can so it caught a lot of the oil. But there was a slight urdur stain on the kitchen wall until it was painted over a few years later.
Long story short, mango pickle always makes me think of the exploing can.
And it's the best mixed kichri and dhai, yummy! Just had that for dinner the other night, got to love Mom's home cooking!
mavinkai upinkai (mango pickle) ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in some serious mosrana?? the only way to go, kids.
Oh man, nimbu achar was the only reason to live when I was growing up until I was a teenager, and then amb da achar made it big in my life. I mean, what other achar tastes like summer all year long? It takes aloo parantha to a new level! As far as the rest of the achar options, they might as well not exist.
I'm with Saheli, though, no one can beat my naniji's achar though. Growing up on that will spoil you; no bottled/canned achar can compare.
Well my mom makes lemon and cranberry athanoo (as we call it in Gujurati) which is pretty good. I think she starting making it when mangoes were not in season and/or generally not that availabe in the US.
Anyhow it's just oil, urdur, salt, mirch and your fruit of choice.
Of course the proportions are what matter and like chai very personal.
Honestly, my mouth started watering just reading this paragraph.
:) For me its Gongura pickle and then Lime pickle, both from Priya's.
Patak's is good, but Priya does better for moi.
Mm, now I'll make sure to stop by India Bazaar on the way home today. I can eat achar plain too, and I scoop more of it than any other item at Indian buffet.
Homemade lemon is really good, but I don't know how to do it.
I can only eat carrot if it's very crisp.. I gag on the less-than-crisp variety. I gag on sweet pickle too. And I definitely gag on ppl calling pickle/achar "relish".
What? No one sticking up for pickle and curd rice?
I just remembered my dad smacks a layer down on a peanut butter sandwich
The first time I ate lime pickle I put an entire spoonful in my mouth and my eyes nearly popped out of my head.
Now I put it with most everything I cook. In fact, I was seriously thinking about putting it on my cheese sandwich this evening and am now wishing I had.
Mmmmm.... lime pickle.
Nani'r am'r achar is what my childhood was made of.
Achar oil goes deliciously on anything. My fave? Moori + hot mix + chilis + onion + mango achar oil -- yum yum yumm!
We did the mango pickles at our house. I think my dad ate them with every conceivable thing. The smell alone brings me back. By the way, Siddhartha, there's a great short story (whose name predictably eludes me now) that showed up in the "Best American Short Stories" anthology a few years ago which was set in Paris and which involved a few of the members of its desi community. Maybe I'll remember the title later, but essentially, it had food as a central theme and how food and relationships are intertwined (at least that's how I saw it).
Oooo the hot mix recipe reminded me of my favorite achar-enhanced dish. People will think this is gross, but Kix + yogurt + paprika + cumin + a dash of salt + achar. SO GOOD.
my uncle loves munching on a lime pickle while eating his cereal and milk. One morning, he convinced me to try it and after a hesitant bite, I have say that it was actually quite tasty!
Thepla, I totally do that too!!!
My favourite will always be mango pickle, not so much for the taste itself but for the memories it evokes. Memories of summer childhood vacations spent at my grantparents village: the smells, the heat, the cattle, the people, the baking sun and the shady mango groves and my grantmothers cooking and the smell of my grandfathers chutta.
Around a month or so into the summer vacation, the mangoes would be right size - not too big, not too small and still unripe green. A few sacks would be brought in from best harvest in the village and around a dozen women would gather to make that years worth of mango pickes; regular mango pickle and sweet mango pickle and shredded mango pickle and garlic mango pickle, each forever seared into my memory and tastebuds.
There was a most experienced expert among all the women (who were all pretty good at what they were doing anyway), usually the oldest lady who would order everyone around and could tell the hotness of the chilli powder just by looking at its color and would make judgements calls about that extra pinch of something that needs to go in.
It was a tradition that had been happening for who knows how long....Anyways, at the end of the day they would have all the pickles which were a glowing, bright red (the color changes to what you see in the bottles sold in the supermarkets in a few months) packed into earthen jars from which small daily amounts will be taken out all year.
The entire process repeated itself daily over a week or so in different houses until everyone had enough pickle.......
Well you asked.
Lemon Pickles:
-------------
Elimachangai-Urugai
lemonurugai
Mango (VaduMaanga) Pickles:
--------------------------
vadu-maanga-pickle
samaithupaar
avakkai-king-of-all-pickles
Narthangai(Citron) Urugai:
-------------------------
Narthangai looks like a grapefruit but is bitter. another pic
Narthangai pickle
My favorites are garlic pickles (Have to settle for Priya Pickles from the store) and Thokku maanga (Grated mango) that my mother makes.
All these go well with thayir saadham.
chitrana-- please see my earlier plug for mango pickle and mosrana aka curd rice!! kannada pride!!
Bedekar's used to make the BEST nimbu achar - it's the only kind I like other than homemade. Patak's, not so hot, IMHO. Nimbu achar is relatively easy to make, actually, if you do the unspiced version (kala nimbu achaar takes ages). My grandmother's version involves quartering the small desi nimbus and putting them in salt and lime juice for about a week or two. Better yet, add chopped ginger and chillies. The plain nimbu achaar is a moister version of the preserved limes you get in the Middle East.
Siddhartha, was the Passage Brady not a desi area when you were growing up? Or did you grow up en province (shock, horror ;) The funniest experience for me when I lived in Paris was the Punjabi restaurant guys who were so uber-Panju and yet insisted on speaking only in French. They always gave me free cilantro, though, when it was difficult to find in the stores.
Bread, butter, pickle oil........yummmmmmmmmmmmmm
In our Bombay hostels, the rumor about the ubiquitous lime pickle was its origin - that it was made from the left overs of the nimbu paani walla, therefore so cheap :-)
Once in Mussoorie, my Pishi-ma tried to make nimbu achar. My Pisho-moshai was then, later, and forever after with the Survey of India, and they lived at the time in a sprawling wooden bungalow perched on a small graveled plateau, with a verandah that ran all the way around it, and forested ravines all around. One afternoon, while I was playing snakes and ladders with my cousins by the fire in the living room at the front of the house, my aunt whizzed past on the verandah, crying out in some agitation, as we noticed peripherally, not exactly looking through the windows. We stayed with the snakes and ladders, (and probably Digestive or Marie biscuits that came with hot milk). The third or fourth time she spun by, screaming, other people took notice and went to rescue her. It seems my aunt had left nimbu achar out in the sun in huge quantities, for whatever reason or part of the process nimbu achar is left out in the sun-- to dry? ferment? Anyhoo, the monkeys had decided to sample the offerings and she, finding this to be the case, recklessly went after them, shouting and snapping a cloth to indicate that they should vamoose. Bad move. Hordes of them appeared from the trees surrounding the house, and chased her around and around the verandah in a pack, while she was too afraid to even figure out whether to go out or come in, presumably because of bringing the monkeys with her...
Anyway. When I'm very lazy, Patak's and Smart Balance will wake up a microwave baked potato.
Siddhartha, I live in France. En province, SP (#30), you can shudder all you like :-) . There might be two other desis in the next town over -- I've never spoken to them but I see them sometimes when I go to the supermarket there. I can't exactly tell by the contents of their shopping carts because there is nothing desi to buy. Perhaps that would be a good icebreaker: I could go up to them and say, "What would you do for some elimichangai urugai right now?"
I'm very curious about what it's like to grow up in France as a desi. I didn't grow up here but I'd actually love to hear from people who did. SemiDesiMasala, I'm going to go find that short story -- thanks for the tip!
Anyway: lime pickle rocks, as does mango pickle (MMMMM, Mangga Thokku!). I eat both kinds in cheese sandwiches, I stir them into curries, I chop them fine and stir them into salads (in moderation). And I eat pickle and curd rice maybe three times a week.
Personally prefer garlic pickle (yummmm...). But yeah, I add it to EVERYTHING :D
mango thokku and lime pickle are definitely my favorites. my family eats pickle with mac and cheese. it's so good that i've converted some of my non-desi friends.
Pickle is the one thing that I think all desis take with them no matter where they go. Amrikis tend to be put off by the smell at first, but somehow all my friends kept sneaking in the jar after a while. I got my elderly French landlady totally addicted as well, to the point where I had to get her a few bottles before leaving. No wimpy lime pickle for her, she liked the flaming red chilli stuff.
Siddhartha if you like lime pickle in sandwiches, you have to try Moroccan harissa with preserved lemon - best sandwich spread ever, perfect with tuna or sardines.
Lime or mango pickle (or even vaddu maanga thanni) in a grilled cheese sandwich=delicious.
I love pickle achar, more so than the mango flavor. But i never know how much to eat with my food, i mean one "block about a half cm is enough right? then how come i keep going for more..? I think that pataks secretly put nicotine in there somewhere..im getting a fix right now.
I'm more of a Mango pickle kind of girl. I grew up on Bedekars in India but learnt to switch to Pataks a long time ago after I didn't like the quality of Bedekars in the US. Nothing brings comfort like some varan bhaat and mango pickle yummmoo. Or even plain parathas and mango pickle will do any day. I also use almost all their range of sauces as well in my cooking. Pretty good stuff.
Sorry, but I have to draw the line at "curry pastes" and "simmer sauces." It's really not that hard to put something together with ginger-garlic paste and/or onions + spices. Patak's pastes are quite mediocre. And I don't quite approve of the ABD embrace of the term "curry" either *shuffles off grumbling about kids these days*
Am I the only ABD here who doesn't eat Achar? Heck, I rarely eat any sort of pickle in general. I just can't get used to the smell of rotting fruit / vegetables. I like all my produce fairly fresh, won't eat it canned either. I know I know I'm a philistine, but still. I just cannot do it.
Am I alone in this? It's my strongest desi food dislike, and one of my only ones.
have never replied to any of the posts, but this one was too tempting to stay away...did somebody say amb da achaar..miss those days when the whole family use to make preparations for putting up new vessels of the acchaar..and in order to really enjoy the aloo parantha you gotta have amb da acchar...
Yes all of us have that kind of luxury of time to whip up rich sauces :-)
Oh come on whether it's Vindaloo or Korma or Rogan Josh or Madras it's still curry isn't it?
Luxury of time? How much more time does it take to put in the ginger-garlic/onion, fry it for 5-10 minutes, and then add the spices, compared with a paste that's chock full of sodium and sugary stuff? Or just toss in some panchphoran or namak-mirchi-haldi-dhania on a sabzi? Indian food takes a certain amount of time to cook, and the masalas are the least of it, if you're making desi, might as well take the extra few minutes. I stand by my grouchy old auntiness, and I work full time dammit :p
I sincerely hope the last line was meant facetiously, JOAT, or I'm coming to get you.
I'm with SP on this one (sorry JoAT). Prepping achar doesn't take very long, and can be easily done if you're multitasking your cooking. Especially since the key component is to let it sit out in the sun :) I have to post it my achar jar, though, otherwise I forget when I put it out :-/
Speaking of nimbu paani (#31)... Given the vast quantity of nimbu paani my parents consume, I am flummoxed that none of us thought to achar the nimbu (not a verb, I know) before. What a brilliant idea!
Um, Camille, I wasn't talking about prepping achar (I don't make my own), just regular dishes. I actually don't know anyone of my generation who makes achars. We'd better learn or the recipes will die out.
Sorry to conflate sauces with achar :) Although I don't think it's terribly hard to do most sauces. Although I like buying curry powder (I know, talk about kicking you in the gut), just because I have NO NEED to keep a full bottle of fenugreek, whereas garam masala and cumin are much more useful across sauces.
You know what I can't do, and generally don't enjoy eating? Nearly all chutneys, mint (padena) and coconut chutney excluded. I even hate imli (tamarind - gasp!). I know. Withdraw my brown membership card.
Ahem, I would like to point out that the word curry is not just an ABD cop-out -- it is the Tamil word for any generic dish that goes with rice, at least among the Tamil speakers I know. In fact, housewives ask each other "What curry did you make today?" when they mean "What did you cook today?" We also use the word to refer to the gravy/sauce in a dish, as opposed to the pieces of vegetable or meat. And I know this isn't the case in India -- I grew up in Malaysia, but most Indians there speak an Indian language and eat Indian food and generally cling to their culture more than many ABDs -- but we've even been known to call sambar "paruppu curry" (lentil curry).
Self-respecting Tamil cooks certainly don't stoop to curry powder or curry pastes :-) , but we still call it curry, and not just when we're speaking English. So there.
Also, Only My Liver, if you think pickle smells like "rotting fruit/vegetables," you've never smelled rot. There's a difference between pickling and leaving things to rot -- by your logic, jam is rotten fruit because it's been cooked and packed in sterilised jars (just like pickle). Good for you for eating fresh veggies -- I agree that they taste better than canned 95% percent of the time (though I'm not with you on pickle, no!) -- but I was dismayed to find out a few years ago that frozen or canned veggies actually contain more vitamins, unless your fresh veggies came out of your garden or someone else's that morning. If you're buying them from a supermarket, they've lost most of their vitamins during the long wait to be bought. Just thought you'd like to know.
SP #30, BrownElf #33: Yes, the Passage Brady was the reliable desi spot. I suspect it still is though I haven't spent much time in Paris in a long while. I did grow up in Paris though subsequently my parents moved en province -- near the Mediterranean. Paris is a great city and all but the Mediterranean is the way to go. Especially for food. The tomatoes alone... And BrownElf, I didn't grow up in any kind of desi community, so I can't really speak to your question. In the past we've had commenters turn up with interesting stories of growing up desi in non-UK Europe; maybe someone will speak up here.
JOAT #39, #43, SP $40, #44: I've used the pastes in my time, not the simmer sauces which I too find suspect. The pastes can really help accelerate or liven up a dish, especially when you are short on time and cooking just for yourself (or for people who don't know the difference). I wouldn't use the pastes alone, however; you gotta use your own onions at a minimum, and calibrate your own spice mix and final flavor.
I do agree with SP when she says:
A blender/food processor thingy helps as well. Freshly chopped and blended ginger + garlic + tomatoes is a beautiful thing and for me, a crucial aesthetic way-station en route to a good curry. Or whatever you want to call it.
SP #36: Yes to harissa! Love that stuff. Mmm, fresh sardines....
Finally and speaking of fish, let me not forget my mellow Red Snapper #5, #6: You are right, brother. That title was sitting right there for me to use. Big up to Orwell!
my dad always made the pickles in our house ... mango, lime, and even fish pickle (its a mallu thing, i think) .... but if we were to buy, we always bought the "Grandma's" brand ...
sorry siddhartha, i never like patak's (or bedekar's for that matter) ...
my pickle abomination: pickle in soups (all kinds) and noodles ...
in fact i'm having thai noodle soup for lunch today ... and you know that i have my little debba of Grandma's spicy prawn pickle to go with it !!
Brownelf, is the use of curry in the south really that common? I don't remember hearing it as a kid in Madras, or among various Tamil family friends, hmm.
I find ginger-garlic paste perfectly good, no need to chop it up fresh each time - or you can blend up a batch and it keeps in the fridge for months, especially if you add some salt.
I dont know if anybody mentioned this but mirchi acchar from Pachranga in Panipat is sooooooo good
Also a fan of green mint chutney made RIGHT
Panipat Pachranga is good, and back in the day it was the only kind of achaar you could bring into the US because it was in a tin. Actually, I'm not sure it was all that great, or if it just felt like it because it was a taste of hime.
Fish pickle sounds yummy, and perfect for noodle soups - they do put pickled radishes and kimchi in soups in Korea and SE Asia. Mmmmmmm. In Himachal Pradesh you can get really good mushroom achar and even chicken achar.
SP #51,
Kari in Tamil is very widely used. It is where 'Curry' was born from after the British came over. It is not just used for vegetarian stuff, but also for meat itmes like 'aattu kari' (mutton curry), 'kozhi kari' (chicken curry), so much so that in some non-vegetarian housholds 'kari' means a meat dish.
From: Curry
Kari, I read the wiki on "curry" a while ago as well, but it doesn't quite convince - according to some linguistics blogs, "kari" in Tamil used to refer to something being blackened or grilled, i.e. just a "cooked dish" and not a liquidy stew. On the other hand, the term "cury" has older roots in England and apparently the first recipe for an Indian-spiced dish in an English cookbook appeared in the late 18C, when the Brits were not that well established in the South (only Fort St. George, pretty much, at that point, no?) and were much more likely to have learned their Indian culinary lessons in Bengal or the North. So I'm not sure about the direction of causality in the use of the term "curry."
Prawn pickles are great!
Prawn Pickle recipe
Prawn pickle preparation
Goan style prawn pickle
Peppy Pickles, includes chilli pickle, prawn pickle and lemon pickle
Prawn pickle at When my soup came alive
Fish pickles
Another list of pickle recipes
As the mango season come up, here are a few mango dishes
Urugai many thanks! It's been so long since I've had prawn pickle...but this afternoon that will change :)
Not many Punju responses...here are my favorites...all homemade:
* Venison pickle
* Patridge pickle
* Wild boar (or pork) pickle
* Punjabi mango pickle
* Black salt lemon pickle (three ingredients: lemons, black salt, and sunshine)
* Stuffed red chillies
* Carrot, turnip, and cauliflower pickle
I finally broke down and have learned to make all of the above. I can't believe I resisted so long. They are so easy to make and taste so much more fantastic than any store bought stuff. (Though I'm addicted to Pataks Extra Hot Lime Pickle). But, they last a lot less than store bought pickle because my white husband eats them like regular food three times a day until the jar is clean.
Typically, Punjabi pickles use fennel, mustard seeds (always ground), cumin with mustard oil. They have a totally different flavor from Gujju or South Indian pickles.
sp
Siddhartha
If you are interested in any of the recipes for the pickles I listed, let me know...I can post them here or to you.
sp
Agree.
What I hate it is when "curry" is used as as adjective: curry chicken, curry shrimp. Or even worse, "curried".
"What I hate it is when "curry" is used as as adjective"
how can you hate a word? :):) It only loves you back...
sigh. is it lunchtime?
SP,
The British picked up their culinary skills in India from all over. Direct Tamil contributions to the English vocabulary are 'Mulligawtany' (Milagu Thanni) and Curry (Kari). Older Tamil food words in English through other languages include Mango (from Maanga), Ginger (Inji-ver), Rice (Latin: Oriza sativa) from (Tamil: arusi).
The Cury (from cure that you mention says it came from French) and meant medicinal concoctions that eventually became food concoctions that cured and hence cury, may explain the English spelling of 'Curry'. But the pronunciation and it's strong linkage to Indian cuisine I think stems from the English interaction with Tamil.
Here are a few more sources on the origins: The Origins of Curry
From: Curry leaves
Also see: Curry
Sonya
Are you being serious??
Never tasted or heard of any of those before --- I didnt even think you could make achar with meat!
"Vindaloo or Korma or Rogan Josh or Madras" are almost all used in the West in just as generic a way as "curry" in your objection above, patm. Kashmiri Rogan Josh (with heeng, saunf, saunt) is worlds away from what passes for Rogan Josh in the US; a korma is really just a stew, and I've never seen a "Madras curry" outside the US or UK, and vindaloo is also much more popular and quite different in the US/UK from its Portuguese-Goan version.
I honestly don't care if people choose to call that Indian food, or like it, and it's quite apt that they should call what they like "curry" since it's more properly a British/American riff on Indian food than Indian food per se. It's when they insist that this is "real" or "great" Indian food, and they know their Indian food. Kind of like that cringeworthy NYT travel piece a week or so ago about "London, Where Indian Food Reaches for the Stars" that should have read "London, Where the Brit Fantasy of Curry reaches new Fusiony Heights" (because of course they didn't go to the good Southall Panju places, but rather to the Of, By and For the Brits joints).
Someone needs to write up the posts in this thread into a single narrative, throw in an arranged marriage dilemma and send it off to a publisher quick time.
Kari, are there any proper linguistic studies of the etymology? Because stuff on the web tends to repeat received wisdom as much as anything else. Is kari used to indicate a sauce or any dish with rice in Tamil?
The term "curry" applied to meat, chicken and fish is now fairly common among English speakers in the North and East of India, but this wasn't the case a few generations ago, when "salan" or "sabzi" would have been used. Any idea about the generational use of "kari" in the South?
Red Snapper, chicken and meat achars are very northie. And gobi shalgam achar, mmmmmm. And this thing called kanji made with black carrots and mustard seeds and left to ferment, mmmmmmmmmmmm.
Kari in Tamil comes from vegetables(kari-kai). Vegetarians call fried vegetables as kari. Meateaters call their meat kari also, very confusingly.
Ok - now you guys got me. My mum made the greatest Parsi pickles - even though the house stunk for days after,
Tarapori patio - Dried Bombay Duck
Fish Roe (Kolaji's of course)
Lagan nu achar
Muraboo (sp?) - mango stones and all!!
mmm - mmm
but this wasn't the case a few generations ago, when "salan" or "sabzi" would have been used.
Its still in use, atleast in my family anyway.
I hear you 100%. Still, it's nice to hear others fondly talking about it. In my family, the 1st gen all love achar, but none of the 2nd gen do.
Actually SP and Siddhartha it's not like I use a whole bottle of the thing. I use a spoonful to embellish existing sauces and find that concentrate helps my own mix of onion/tomato/ginger/garlic because for me it's not always easy to mimic different flavored curries quickly I find the shortcut for daily life very easy, not like I'm whipping up curries on a daily basis :-)
I don't get your point. Any regional/local dish would be different elsewhere when made commercially. I don't get the snobbery behind it. It's still different curries. If they exist as different curries in India why can't they exist as different curries here? That they don't taste like what it does in India is a whole other issue. A stew is a curry sorry I hate that we are hung up on the semantics. Stew is not even a desi word!!
Red Snapper
I'm not joking at all. Meat-eating Punjabis pickle anything and everything and of course if it is meat or fish, all the more better with your scotch n' soda or beer on sunday lunch. Growing up in India, all my uncles, cousins, and dad went for shikar. Whatever they shot, we would have a couple of fantastic meals and then my grandma and mom and aunts would pickle the rest of the meat. Eating game pickle with hot cripy plain parathas...oooh...my mouth is watering.
Of course, now, I'm totally opposed to shikar so no more venison or wild boar pickle... Many years ago, I was given wild boar legs a couple of times in the US by friends of friends and made wild boar pickle...it is fantastic. I haven't used venison coz I'm a bit afraid of the mad cow disease which is now infected the US deer population.
You can use fish or chicken or pork but my husband who has tasted the real thing agrees there is no comparision.
sp
SP,
I am not familiar with any formal linguistic study on the etymology. The word 'kari' in Tamil is very old. For instance 'kaai-kari' means vegetable in Tamil. Vegetable preparations of all kinds including the suacy versions could genericaly be called kari, but will be distinguised as poriyal, aviyal, varuval, kootu etc based on preparations techniques. Kari-vepilai for curry leaves is also very ancient. In Tamil kari also is used as a generic term, whose equivalent in Hindi would be masala. I believe the 'kari' in Tamil and the north indian 'khadi' (poori --> poodi) share common origins nominally. The actual recipes and preparations would vary widely with time and place. Of course the meaning of the word like any other word evolves with time and geography and it's evolution into the modern English usage of curry owes much to it's usage in Britain, where perhaps it's association became wider with any spicy, saucy, stewy rice dish and eventually with any Indian dish. Another link: An Introduction to Curries
One of my favorite foods ever is bellam avakai--any Andhras out there who know where to get it/ how to make it? It's mango pickle where the mangoes have been dried and somehow incorporated with jaggery (gur or bellam). My great-grandmother used to make it; apparently it's a much bigger production than regular mango pickle and you can't buy it in stores even in India. It is the best thing ever!
Another yummy pickle: kalamakkai pickle from Kerala (made with mussels). Slurp!
The Andhra Pradesh fisheries used to make a yummy prawn pickle--I used to start sneaking bites out of the jar before we even got home.
SP #55
It may very well be true that kari started out as blackened or grilled, because kari also means coal. But even long before the British the word kari had evolved in Tamil to include a much more broader array of meanings. With the English interaction with Tamil and Indian cuisine in general, it's meaning evolved even more in Britain into it's present day version as I said in #75, that many Indians object to, because to some it seems like a simplification of the diverse complexity of Indian cuisine into just 'curries'. The other dynamic at play is that though 'curry' comes from the Tamil 'kari' the predominant Indian population in Britain is North Indian, who are not as familiar with the usage in Hindi and other north Indian languages except for 'Kadi' and so quible with the semantics of it. Fact is, the English usage has turned it into a catchall term for all Indian cusisine, though the English can differentiate their chicken tikka masala from balti chicken (both preparations that evolved in Britain).
Sonya
Wow -- I have to ask some people about this. And the meat stays good? I suppose it's like smoking or salting or preserving it.
My guilty pleasure:
The lowly Marie biscuit topped with a spoonful of mango pickle.
So how come nobody mentioned the King of Pickles : the uber-hot Andhra Aavakai Urugai ? One bite of the crunchy garlic and mango with shell transports me to heaven...
...must stop now..drooling over keyboard
Overheard in the bunker:
"AMATEURS. Kadukumanga. Straight out the Grandma's jar."
;)
And I thought that spreading pickle on a tortila before slapping in the guacamole and fajita meat made me strange :) I cannot wait to try some on a slice of pizza! You have inspired me.
And yes, I'm Tamil and we use curry to refer to pretty much any dish we make, and no it is not some generic thing that comes out of a bottle. I do make most of my curries (( so there) from scratch , but sometimes when I'm at work all day and at rehearsal all night, I'm happy to crack open a packet of simmer sauce if it looks good and natural. Better that than a PB & J sammich, even if it is spiked with achar.
glass houses #61 - LOL!
i find it interesting that the southies have somewhat 'hijacked' this thread, though i did find the tamil etymology lesson very interesting.
SP - my family is from madras, and yes, i think tamilians do generally refer to the saucier dishes as 'curry.' [although my dad has started calling the sauce juice - as in 'just give me the vegetables - no juice.' gross]. i have also heard tam-brams refer to curry as any non-veg dish.
i prefer my raw mangoes straight - my mom always buys extra for me to eat when she makes a pickle. however, carrot pickle is my big indulgence - i eat it straight with yoghurt. and even though i'm south indian, i can think of few things that are better than an aloo parantha, yoghurt, and some achar.
and now i'm hungry!!
i think most malayalees do the same ... airachee curry, meen curry, kozhi curry, motta curry, moore curry, ... all because of the gravy/sauce involved in these dishes ... but this is not a hard and fast rule as there are other dishes that have gravy but are not called curries such as theeyals (ie vendaka theeyal) ...
speaking of kannada words such as 'bevu'-- did any other peeps celebrate Ugadi on Monday?? HAPPY UGADI!!! eat that bevu bella!!! may you all have a wonderful new year!!
another good brand of mango pickle is Mother's-- and 777--- the best, however, is the one my Ajji made in Mysore in 1989 and lasted us until 1995..I seriously cried when that bottle was empty. sigh.
==>I dont know the recipe, but I know its a laborious process. I dont care to know too, because I am getting some in May..yaaayyy! TWO JARS FULL.
Anybody in the DC area, you can have *one* small piece. :))
Though, I am a veggie myself, I was told that Andhra prawn and crab pickles are supposedly heavenly. You get those in 'military hotels.'
Huh...I don't get it.
Red Snapper:
What do you mean:
Wow -- I have to ask some people about this.
You don't trust me :-)
And the meat stays good? I suppose it's like smoking or salting or preserving it.
Technically, the pickle is supposed to last 3 months if you NEVER use a wet or damp fork or spoon in it. However, the longest it has lasted in our homes is 3-4 weeks max.
The process is to cook lots of masalas (fresh garlic, fresh ginger, cumin, coriander, mustard, ground in vinegar) in mustard oil and then cook the meat/fish in this masala. Since the masala has lots of mustard oil, vinegar, and spices, the meat gently marinates in this mixture. And, no the meat/fish does not taste rotten or extra gamey. If the meat/fish etc. are not fresh or hung properly, then the pickle will rot. The gameness is removed by the vinegar and mustard oil.
The fragrance of this type of pickle is known to bring grown adults to their knees in joy I might add.
sp
It was Gudi Padava for us Mahrashtrians on Monday :-) Happy New Year to you as well.
Back to pickles I also love carrot pickle with aloo paratha and I've had shrimp pickle as well and between my cousin and I we finished the whole bottle in a sitting. It was yummy. And in Maharashtrian families I've also had Bombil (Bombay Eel) and tiny dried fish (damn I forgot the name) pickles in Mumbai. Very common especially among Malvanis and Konkanis.
Sonya I've had venison pickle myself and it wasn't gamey or chewy at all. In fact it just melted on your tongue. I didn't really like the taste of it but I did try it because it was just so exotic. And I've had brain pickle once at a Pakistani friend's house. I know sounds gross but OMG it was insanely spicy and delicious.
No I do! Honestly :-)
I meant I have to ask some people about this so that I can locate some taste it! I'm half Punjabi but never heard of it before. So I am going to do some Sherlock Holmes investigation and locate some pork achar ASAP.
I am a mango achar girl all the way. I miss my ammachi's achar so much...I can almost guarantee that not a day has gone by when I haven't had some jar of achar in my fridge whether I was living at home or now in my apartment...I may not have bread, milk or eggs but you better believe I'll never run out of my achar.
P.S. my gross but delicious combo: garlic pickle and pancakes!
This was too mouthwatering to resist. One of my favorite offbeat pickles is bamboo shoot pickle.
http://www.bambootech.org/tslink.asp?subsubid=90&subid=29&sname=USAGE&lid=202
The texture of the bamboo shoots makes this on of my all time favorites.
Actually, Navroz, the Parsi New Year, also fell on a day really close to Ugadi/Gudipadwa this year. Does anyone know how/why? I've never noticed them being this close in previous years.
Amrita @32:
I see the beginning here of a promising short story, maybe even a novella (at least). If you don't feel like finishing it yourself, would you open it to all literary-minded SMers to finish it for you? Right here, extempore, on SM. Might be fun! We can hold off till Siddhartha sets the rules.
Since I am out of pickle and the five miles to Venice Blvd will take me 45 minutes which i can not spare because of AI results, tonight i will eat boiled rice while re-reading the comments.
Any west coasters (the desi one) remember taindli pickle? Gerkin in english? Zepellin in shape.
In our Goa-India-catlick mish mash our favorite was "pressure" pickle. Any Guesses
@Neale 93
Speaking of Goan pickles - 2 words - prawn balchao
I fondly remember begging, pleading Goan friends to bring back original balchao on their trips to Goa.
Here's another happy memory :
My grandma made this wonderful temporary pickle out of karela , ginger , lime, chillies and salt.Temporary because it was not meant to last long and it tasted so good that it never did !
Overheard in the bunker:
"AMATEURS. Kadukumanga. Straight out the Grandma's jar."
;)
I scrolled through all the comments, just for THAT. I was wondering when ANNA was going to show up on the achar post. =)
This fish/meat pickle business is new to me, and so intriguing. Must figure out how to get my hands on some.
Though MTR is better. ;-P
@Neale 93, thanks for telling me what a 'taindli" is. I am a westerner, but from further south, Mangalore. My mother makes gerkin pickle. More often now, she combines it with carrots. I would love to eat the salty gerkin left out to dry. An uncle of mine makes a pork pickle with garlic. My mother tried to pickle Bombay Duck once, but that did not turn out so great.
Kari - I see, the "masala" equivalent usage makes sense. A question for all the TamBrahms in the house, do you use the term kari a lot? Because I'm starting to wonder if the reason I never heard it from South Indian friends and neighbours was that they were mainly vegetarian TamBrahms. Hmm.
Taindli is the same as kundri, isn't it? I jumped up and down one day to find it in the Korean grocery store, hadn't seen it outside of Bombay. Yummilicious.
chachaji- I was worried that I might have been hijacking. As it was, I forgot to say, call me chutney mary if you like, but I'm not so much a fan of achar. I'll take mango or tomato or even brinjal chutney over pickle any day.
I know/remember what else happened around that time and what that monkey chase led to, but yes, I am totally open and sparked at the thought of seeing it developed as a SM-built short story. I'd have to watch, as my memory would interfere with collaborative fiction --- and I might use my narrative kernel later to develop quite another piece of fiction-- what does Siddhartha say?
As a Bedekar-lovin ABD, I was proud to see my teenager get hooked on Priya's tomato pickle eaten with rice-ghee-yogurt. Which incidently perks up prawn currys very well. My favorite lemon pickle is the Mahashtrian kind made by my agee, without mustard seeds, just tastes of sundried lemons. And pickled amla rocks!
BadIndianGirl - thank you ... you've just cleared up for me why 'pickle' is on the list of substances which can't be carried in hand luggage through Trichy airport (along with scimitars, golf clubs and revolvers).
this may be sacriligious, but for readers in the UK, try Tesco's lime pickle - it's the best (non-homemade) I've tasted.
Sonya, I had totally forgotten about (insert meat here)-achar! Red, one done right, it can be soooo good. I like dried fish achar best. I have never had it last more than 2-3 weeks, though. 3 months seems impossible.
i'm quite partial to SWEET lime pickle. it's the perfect combination of sweet and kaara...perfect on bread with butter. or with yoghurt. or used in a chicken marinade. or really with anything...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Does anyone know if pickles have any nutritional value? For example, does the lime retain it's vitamin C when preserved?
Does anyone know if pickles have any nutritional value? For example, does the lime retain its vitamin C when preserved?
MMMMMM! I eat it out of the Jarrrrrr! Better than Chocolate, That! You guys are making me hungry!
What is Urdur
Sonya - I know this post was a little while ago, but I have been desperately searching for a recipe for a pork achar. My dad and I love it and my massi used to make it. She's an excellent cook, yet for some reason, she doesn't want to share the recipe, insisting on making it for us instead. Weird, I know. Food is there to be enjoyed by everyone. As soon as I read your post about pork achar, I got excited! Is there any way you'd be able to give me a recipe? I make basic gajjar ki achar but that's it, so it'd have to be idiot proof!
Sonya- When I was searching for mango achar recipes I found the above pickle recipes, thats great I didnt know you could make pork pickle. I believe you have more mango pickle/achar recipes. Is there any way that you could send the mango pickle/achar recipe please?