Is he rightfully terrified of having to relocate to India? I don’t think so.

I don't know, Naina. He does seem to be using his religious background as a crutch, but I do think he is justified in being frightened to return to India. The article doesn't mention if he is in touch with anyone there, but I'm guessing not, if he was adopted at that young an age. It'd be one thing if he was a recent immigrant or if he had ties to India, but he seems to have nothing there - no family, no friends, no connections. Repatriation would be extremely difficult in those circumstances.

And of course several people in India speak English, but not speaking any Indian language will only handicap him if he is to look for a job, etc. It'd be one thing if he had an extensive educational background and could fit into a professional workplace in India where many people speak English, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It seems like he just needs some rehabilitation in Utah.

(Oh and this is off topic - sorry - but did you happen to see Dana Parson's column in the LA Times, Naina? He reacts to both of your Sepia Mutiny posts. I posted it on the News tab. He doesn't really seem to understand what you were getting it, but that shouldn't be surprising :))

Well, he certainly sounds like a bag of douche. If he knows how to fight and steal cars, I doubt he'll have much trouble living "on the streets."

Hey Sai,

I see what you're saying re only knowing English and being afraid to have to go back to India. But from what I understood from the article, the kid has already been to prison. If he's not afraid to steal cars and go to prison then really, what's so terrifying about going to India?

I'm usually very sympathetic about deportation cases where families are torn apart or there are huge debts in the balance. But in this case, it's really hard for me to feel sorry for this kid.

i'm curious what India thinks about the United States exporting an American (in substance though not form) Criminal to India. He should be punished for the crime he committed. But should he really be punished for his mother's incompetence (yes yes, I know deportation is not formally considered punishment. but c'mon, be serious). There should be a safe harbor for adoption mistakes or at least some statute of limitations (is there?). Maybe this case will be the catalyst (although, I can't imagine it's been the first).

"Is he rightfully terrified of having to relocate to India? I don’t think so."

"If he's not afraid to steal cars and go to prison then really, what's so terrifying about going to India?"

I'm really surprised by the above comments. This guy, regardless of his criminal behavior, was adopted when he was THREE! Ofcourse he's afraid to move to another country. I think what we have here is a little insecurity on the part of fellow sepia posters, "How dare he say he is afraid of India? Our country is just as good as his! He's a common criminal and he's afraid of our motherland? That is so not politically correct!"

Whatever. He's a common criminal but he's an American criminal. It makes no sense to deport him because of a technicality. Dude is doing whatever he can to stay in the US.

(Oh and this is off topic - sorry - but did you happen to see Dana Parson's column in the LA Times, Naina? He reacts to both of your Sepia Mutiny posts. I posted it on the News tab. He doesn't really seem to understand what you were getting it, but that shouldn't be surprising :))

Yeah, I saw that column. Still mulling over it. :)

I think what we have here is a little insecurity on the part of fellow sepia posters, "How dare he say he is afraid of India? Our country is just as good as his! He's a common criminal and he's afraid of our motherland? That is so not politically correct!"

Other than that, I can see your other points.

This kid will be working for the underworld in Mumbai with a month of getting back "home." He may even write a novel about his experience, which will aptly start with a description of the apalling poverty in the desh. "What kind of government would allow this..." and all that. India should tell the US to buzz off if they try to deport him there.

I agree with Lamba. The kid is messed up but it seems particularly callous to send him to a country that's not his anymore, especially when the citizen-ship muck-up wasn't his fault.

I can't believe this. They're knowingly sending a criminal to India. What the hell!
And I don't think he would be persecuted "religiously" or because he doesn't speak any Indian language, he'd have too much of a problem. That's an insult to Indians everywhere. Our constitution is definitely more secular than America's.
Rant Over.

I don't know if they did the right thing by sending him back to India but he does need some jailtime.

From a human POV it makes no sense to deport this guy.
Hopefully a lawyer weighs in somewhere along the this thread. If his lawyers are focussing more on his Christian background and his not 'fitting in' in India, it seems that they don't have any legal recourse in the law suggesting that he cannot be made a victim for someone else's mistake. (And I feel that his mother should be censured somehow here)

Like people have already said, he is a douche but an American douche and should be tried as one.

they do this cambodian gang-bangers. the only diff. is those kids usually have some relatives in cambodia to help them out.

Wow, thanks for posting this, Naina. Actually, we are working on a feature article for Nirali on the broader theme of international adoptions. This brings in a whole new facet.

I certainly don't think, however, that he deserves deportation. My two cents.

if he was adopted by an american then he should automatically be considered an an american, just like in marriage. sounds like an unintended loophole in the law.

he should be scared about going to india. he has no skills, family, job...and poverty in india is on a whole other level than poverty in the US. meanwhile kids of illegal immigrants are automatic citizens.

Just because it's late and I am still in the office, when his mother brought him into the US, did she not show any papers to immigration? I know that young kids had their details aded to their parent's passports before.. but he was just adopted, so how was he allowed in without any paperwork at the US immigration?

If he's not afraid to steal cars and go to prison then really, what's so terrifying about going to India?

There's a big difference between going to India and relocating to India. I don't think he should be handed an extraordinary judgment based on a supposedly vast capacity for recklessness. It's not about India per se, it's about having to relocate to any other country which you have no significant ties to because of a record of petty crime. He probably didn't "fear" prison because he knew it would be temporary; deportation often is not.

Also, we have to consider the context - as a child adoptee, he was technically (if not legally) brought to America without a choice and conditioned to become an American. His ties to India at this point are, to me at least, a technicality at most.

That aside, please do keep us updated on how you plan to respond to Mr. Parsons (that is, if you plan to)!

Oh and this is off topic - sorry - but did you happen to see Dana Parson's column in the LA Times,

damn. the world is so differernt from the oligarchy of opinionheads i grew up w/. Naina is being attacked by the LA Times. razib was linked by the instapundit today. i'm waiting for MoDo to take on Vinod.

There's a big difference between going to India and relocating to India.

Is he rightfully terrified of having to relocate to India? I don’t think so.

Naina, I respect your ire and appreciate your considerable sarcasm but I disagree with you on this point. I concur with Lamba, Shimi and Nemo-- he left India when he was a toddler. If you dumped me in India right now, I'd be lost; I was last there when I was 14 AND I still have some family hither and yon. Yes, yes I'm aware that people in India speak English better than plenty of Americans do, but I think this is beyond language, this is about culture and what's right. It's not his fault that he was adopted by someone who was incompetent and while he is a criminal who deserves to pay for what he's done, he should be doing that here. Instead of dusting our American hands off gleefully while gloating about how we passed the clusterfuck, we should take care of our own criminals, not outsource them.

Ah, guess I should have hit refresh before publishing. ;)

This is frickin insane. The kid was adopted by an american when he was three! America is all he knows. Is it his fault that the stupid Mormon woman who adopted him neglected to do the necessary paperwork?

Let him serve time for his crimes in America. India should refuse to take him back.

we should take care of our own criminals, not outsource them.

What's wrong with the latter? If we do deport outsource this guy, his proficiency in English vernacular would ingratiate him with his normally rankled customers and enable him to quickly rise through the ranks. His skills could even earn him a couple Employee of the Month tiffins at the local call center. Everybody wins.

I agree with Sai,

He should be punished as a US national. Yes hey is a miscreant, but as far as miscreants go he is not breaking any records in the US. He is as much an American as an American can get. I am wondering if he had been a white kid would the judgement have been any different?

As an Indian, this guy roaming around on Indian streets scares me. India has loads of endemic social problems, but one thing we don't see is violent random-nature crime of the nature of the US: mugging is unknown in India as is carjacking. The last thing I want is this guy introducing this stuff in India.

Yep, we have to admit he's an Indian citizen by birth and descent, and the US has a golden opp to get rid of him, so India's got to take him. But I hope they won't just be letting him loose on the streets, but send him off to Tihar or somewhere to pass his days contemplating his purpose.

I do feel sorry for the upbringing this guy's had though. Why did his mom adopt him all the way from India if she didn't want to or have the knowledge to raise him properly?

I am with naina.

There is a serious technicality. I have read quite a few stories like this NYT, especially since 2001. Some deserve sympathy***. In past, they would look the other way but since 9/ 11, they do not cut slack. If they cut slack for one, what is there not to cut slack for other guy or girl.

There are gangs here who full of illegals. Is it US responsibility to take care of them. Car theft @ 18 is often a starting point........repeat offenders (he was convicted twice) are not going sing hymns pretty soon.

Say, a teenage gang member, dope dealer in NYT, Los Angeles comes from Mexico, Peru, Vietnam to USA at the age of 7, 9, 11, 13 with their parents illegally. Should they be also allowed to stay too if convicted? Should anyone be ever deported? Everyone should become an asylum seeker at some point. Is there is cut off date, cut of age?

Sure, her mother messed up time and time, even as late as in 1989, there was a general amnesty, when you could get you status fixed no questions asked.

India has lot of phoren criminals - petty and serious both - at one point, Goa was the safest hide out for the most wanted in the world. Just meld in with the hippies, and you could escape detection for ever. We all know Shantaram.

He will be in the top of food chain within 15 days - English speaking skills, and Amrikan panache will come handy.

He is 25, he knew what he was doing.

*** There was Pakistani teenage honor student deported after 9/ 11 as his mother came to US on visitor visa, and died few months later. He stayed with his uncle and aunt. That is a case that deserve second look. They were some felllowship freshmen to Columbia, Vanderbilt, etc. who are illegals. They deserve second look.

This American life had a similar story about el Salvadorian kids who grew up in the US being deported down there because of similar issues. The kids are completely lost and out of place in a country they have never known. Think this is more indicative of the assumptions of the deporting country that color and race take precedent over the individual.

razib was linked by the instapundit today

hey, i've been linked/mentioned by glenn as far back as 2002 (query "Razib"). nothing new there ;-)

whatever his crimes in the u.s., if he has had absolutely no contact with india or his relatives there since arriving in the u.s. as a child, it would be unkind to deport him, but not because he will be "persecuted." for all intents and purposes, despite the lack of a piece of paper, he is an american, and only an indian by birth. he should do his time in the u.s. he already seems to have had a troubled childhood, what will being in what is essentially a foreign country to him do to him? desperation could make him do even worse things in india.

do his two older brothers and older sister who came with him to the u.s. at the same time have citizenship? what about the other two indian children she had already adopted before them? if they all have citizenship, why was he neglected?

He will be in the top of food chain within 15 days - English speaking skills, and Amrikan panache will come handy.

More likely he'll kill himself. Unless some people there take it upon themselves to help him out. If the Indian media gives this a lot of coverage he may get some benefactors. Otherwise he faces a very bleak existence in India. Perhaps he could be hired in a salesman type of capacity somewhere, where speaking English despite not necessarily having a degree could come in handy. By the way he looks like his origins in India might be from the NorthEast somewhere.

I'm thinking maybe he could be absorbed somewhere in India's burgeoning retail market. Selling appliances at the mall type of thing. Even there though you do need some ability in the local Indian language since not all the customers will want to speak English. And it sure wouldn't be a comfortable life. Kush, do you (or does anyone else) have specific ideas about legitimate jobs someone like this could do in India (and manage to get by)? He definitely has to find his niche somewhere if he's going to survive.

Kush, do you (or does anyone else) have specific ideas about legitimate jobs someone like this could do in India (and manage to get by)? He definitely has to find his niche somewhere if he's going to survive.

Sales - be it for cars, electronic appliances, hotels, clubs, or doing some kind of HR kinda of work for outsourcing outfits.

In all honesty, he could land up with a very decent job in Delhi/ Bangalore/ Mumbai using his English language skills. Sure, somebody has to give him a break, maybe through one of the charitable Christian organizations in India might give him the first one, and be his under writer.

English skills in India can take you really far.

Amitabh, How about call center?

Seriously, he can do OK but he does need a benefactor there immediately.

a minor note: most of the world's christians don't consider mormons christians. mormons reject the trinity, believe that god has a consort, that he lives on a planet in this universe and has a physical body, that there are an infinite number of gods, that human males can become gods and that god was a man, that jesus and satan are brothers conceived of sexual intercourse between god and his wife...and on and on....

but razib, i do not think that (mormoms difference) should be an issue at all in India. the reason, i brought christian organization because they will most likely show some empathy for someone like him. for that matter, he could be noticed by some hindu, muslim, sikh benefactor too.

but someone who gives him the first break.

however, if you are resourceful in India and willing to bend the rules, you can really take off.

a case like shantaram is not an exceptional case, he talks of expats in India, hanging around in Leopolds in Mumbai with papers long expired. So long they did not doing anything shocking in India like pedophillia, you are left alone to thrive (these are Shantaram/ Gregory Robert's observations).

risible (#8):

India should tell the US to buzz off if they try to deport him there.

This is a point which was overlooked. It takes two to make a deportation happen - there's the deportation and there's the repatriation. How do these things work, generally? How do the treaties work? Is the Government of India duty-bound to take him "back?" If so, how do they go about it? Where to they put him? Which city, even?

Does anyone know?

the reason, i brought christian organization because they will most likely show some empathy for someone like him.

sure, but not because he's christian. most christian organizations are pretty hostile to mormonism because it consider it a fake, a non-christian religion trying to pass it off as christian (e.g., almost no christian organization accepts mormon baptisms as valid - i believe that the episcopalian bishop in salt lake did years ago, and that was a big deal).

U.S. immigration policy needs to be more sensitive to the countries they plan to deport to. I'm currently writing a research paper about U.S. policy in El Salvador and toward Salvadoran refugees during the 1980s, and how these policies gave rise to the multinational gang Mara Salvatrucha 13. By wanting to send its criminals elsewhere, the U.S. only contributes to the growth of crime in the receiving countries. This article details how deportation of gang members leads to the flourishing of gangs in Central America. MS-13 went from being a L.A. street gang to a Western hemisphere gang thanks largely in part to U.S. policies. As a result, El Salvador's homocide rate is the highest in the hemisphere, even higher than Colombia which is engaged in a civil war. Obviously the situation with the Indian adoptee is different, but something to think about nonetheless.

The US has agreements with a number of countries on accepting citizens that are deported from the U.S. Generally, the country involved (India in this case) helps in obtaining appropriate travel documentation, often times a passport, and they proceed through immigration upon arrival. The government isn't duty bound to "place" the person anywhere. Occasionally, they'll have helped the person locate relatives or someone who may be able to assist with housing and other needs.

I'd point out that other coutries do send U.S. citizens back to the U.S. as well.

The Mara Salvatrucha issue underlines the inter-connectdness between immigration (legal or otherwise) and the disparities that exist in this hemisphere. Many of the Maras are children of illegal immigrants and those who used the amnesty and TPS programs who created their own gangs based on a self-identified need for community, exclusion from U.S. society, and lack of supportive family structure, and a failure of individual responsibility. But it's not an easy task to find a root cause, and I don't think it's justfiable to say that U.S. policy is largely to blame without giving an adequate accounting of the governance failures in El Salvador, the lack of economic opportunities there that "push" migration to the U.S., the civil wars (where the U.S. and others took sides) and the lack of family units in towns where 90% of the men have gone elsewhere to work.

Guantanamo Bay, no?

He needs to re-enter the US and go to a different part of the country and pretend that he ran away from home when he was 12 who does not remember his social security number.

Another point: There are a lot of young kids in the US who have no records whatsoever. This dude doesnt have an accent. ICE will never get involved if he were to re-enter the US through Mexico and start living in lets say Michigan.

a minor note: most of the world's christians don't consider mormons christians. mormons reject the trinity, believe that god has a consort, that he lives on a planet in this universe and has a physical body, that there are an infinite number of gods, that human males can become gods and that god was a man, that jesus and satan are brothers conceived of sexual intercourse between god and his wife...and on and on....

Really, ROFL.. looks like Hinduism to me. Hindus in America should then support Mitt Romney for President.

looks like many of the comments are hostile to the guy in question. I pity the condition he is in. India should accept him. India has thousands of petty criminals and adding one more would not be a big deal. Also, India should tighten up the adoption process. I think China has done the right thing recently by tightening the adoption process.

This is appalling. This is a child dragged from his original homeland for the benefit of a woman too stupid to make sure his immigration was secure. No wonder he has problems. He is a petty criminal and basically still a child. His only attachment to India is his brown skin, and despite the number of Indians who probably speak English, how is he supposed to realistically fit into a society without speaking any of the local dialects?

This kid is obviously an American, and should be punished just like any other American.

*Though I would definitely prefer the exile to jail and I don’t speak those languages either.

I'm surprised at the outsourcing criminals responses. Please! In this case, due to the age he immigrated to the US I do feel some sympathy for him, and perhaps jail time is better than deportation, but if we are not a nation of laws, what are we?

My ex lost his medical license in two separate states due to writing prescriptions for himself (drug and alcohol addict). The first hospital sent him to expensive rehab. Expensive, expensive top of the line rehab. As far as I know (haven't had contact in years), they never had success deporting him. The system is messed up, big-time. We keep people we shouldn't and send back people we shouldn't. It's completely random and a huge, bureacratic nightmare. The system needs a massive overhaul. I mean, why send this kid back and not a person who immigrated as an adult and has multiple convictions?

' i>This is appalling. This is a child dragged from his original homeland for the benefit of a woman too stupid to make sure his immigration was secure.'

Since when is 25 still a child? I guess you get a pass at 30 now? Why do people still kepp extending adolescence to make excuses?

He needed to pull it together as an adolescent and he didn't. If you have time served either as a juvenile or as an adult, you have had your opportunity to grow up in more ways than most people.

Caco should tighten up and do his time like the rest of us.

The first thought that came to my mind had nothing to do with the fairness of his deportation, immigration issues, or the international adoption issues that have been raised. What of the prison officials that initially sought his deportation? This, to me, is symptomatic not only of immigration issues, but also illustrates the problems facing the penal system in the U.S. My guess is that the Utah prison system, like most in the U.S., is in a state of overcrowding and general crisis right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the prison officials sought deportation just because it would be one less person they'd have to deal with in their prisons.

My ex lost his medical license in two separate states due to writing prescriptions for himself (drug and alcohol addict).

I wonder about the level of prescription drug abuse in the desi community. Somebody recently approached me on this issue after they got themselves into legal trouble. In this dude's case, the family made it much worse by trying to 'hide' the problem instead of seeking treatment etc.

A Shantaram story in reverse if he is sent back to India.

That is such a good point Al M. People, please. Privacy is important, but not more important that treatment. What matters is getting someone into rehab and being there for them. After that, it's up to them, but 'hiding' things and creating a greater sense of shame may only make matters worse. Addicts are incredibly suspceptible to feelings of shame.

This reminds me of a similar case in australia
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200601/s1558789.htm

The guy was born in Paris to serbian parents moved to Australia at age 2 never became a australian citizen. Had criminal record since a teen. Was deported to serbia. Doesnt speak the language.

The Minister steped in finally. Allowed him back on a temporary visa.

Here is another similar case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Nystrom

the sympathy point is misplaced. the critical issue is not whether you feel bad for this person, but whether someone, who is a criminal, should be given an additional sanction for something they had no control over. I'm not sure what goals of the criminal justice system are advanced by punishing this guy for his mother's incompetence. and from a foreign policy standpoint, I find it troubling that the United States is willing to deport an American criminal on a technicality to India. The United States should bear the burden of paying for his incarceration. He was punished under our criminal justice system, for crimes he committed in our country, and for conduct we are trying to deter here and not abroad. Why should India pay for this?

And why should the US pay for the criminals exported here by other countries (which is not quite the case here)? Which, to an extent, is our fault for having such a disorganized and poorly run immigration system, but it plays both ways.

Sales - be it for cars, electronic appliances, hotels, clubs, or doing some kind of HR kinda of work for outsourcing outfits.

In all honesty, he could land up with a very decent job in Delhi/ Bangalore/ Mumbai using his English language skills. Sure, somebody has to give him a break, maybe through one of the charitable Christian organizations in India might give him the first one, and be his under writer.

English skills in India can take you really far.

The person has a criminal record a CONVICTION, I doubt any call centre will hire him for that. Most people who break laws in India dont have a criminal record or convictions.

Plus most people who work in Indian call centres have a Bachelors Degree or working towards one. To get into HR work you need a Masters degree.

I was in India recently and Standard Chareted bank needed commerce graduates for teller positions.

Forget honest jobs, he speaks English, the best he can do is go to Goa deal drugs.

Vivek: I suspect that the rules would be governed by the US-India treaty.

Folks, the LDS - and all American missionary organizations - have a substantial enough presence in India. He need only hook up with them for the time being. He will easily get a job in a call center, as his accent makes him "better qualified" than all Indians! And make no mistake: they are looking for bodies, the more the better. There are loads of Europeans,Americans and Australians working in call centers; it helps them pay their bills while they go searching for sex or enlightenment or both. Then he could rent his own flat, find a nice girlfriend, etc. In the long term, if he reforms himself and finds his god, he would probably make a fine missionary. (It is very hard for foreign born missionaries to get visas in India; everyone has been forced to go native.) Or he could work in retail in any major city.

Chances are he will save up, make his way to Mexico and cross back into the states. I doubt he would stay.

This is why poor people shouldn't be adopting children..

What exactly is the procedure for being deported ? Do they fly you on a military jet and then simply leave you at the airport of the other country or do they leave you at the Indian embassy or something ???

If he does end up being deported to India, I think the Indian government should help him get a job.

Coach, he was 3 when he was adopted. The fact that his adoptive parent didn't make sure he was technically an American doesn't change the fact that by all other standards he is an American.

Deporting him is the same as saying 3 yr olds are responsible for their own immigration status.

This is no different from someone on the street telling you to go to where you have come from just because you look a particular way. He was adopted at the age of 3 for crying out loud, America is all he knows, trying to send him to India is absolutely ridiculous.

Kush,
I really don’t think he has any future in India despite his English language skills, the bleak image you have of the industry hiring practices is appalling, even in the much maligned call centers, you have to be at least a college graduate to get a job. With his skills it is highly unlikely that his ascent to the top of the ladder will be as easy as you make it out to be.

It seems this woman didn't care too much about the three year old she adopted, and nobody has ever called her to account as a parent.

Sai,

Yeah, I saw that column. Still mulling over it. :)

Dana Parsons totally doesn't get that if he writes about South Asians online, he gets a South Asian audience, no matter where it's located -- which is odd, since his MO, as that of other people like him, depends on his being able to talk behind his subjests' backs. He also doesn't get that people unconnected to his OC professor are also doing work in that area. It's good that he's on the defensive, but of course he still hasn't told us what deals his cousin was cutting at those important meetings in Mumbai or whether that cousin's activities will contribute to the skewed distribution of wealth in India.

Looking forward to your response, Naina! :)

The guy should obviously argue that he is an American. Not that he shouldn't be deported. He was adopted, was raised in the US and believed i belonged there.

A douche bag he might be and deserves to serve time, but think about it this is as if some one had deported one of us to Ghana.

On the otherhand, he should probably be happy about the deportation, the next time it would be three strikes and out.

but think about it this is as if some one had deported one of us to Ghana.

You're absolutely right, it must be that scary for him. He doesn't deserve this.

Alert: Unrelated , but important !!!
Naina's post about Dana Parson's column has been rebutted by the Dana Parsons in LA times!!!

even in the much maligned call centers, you have to be at least a college graduate to get a job.

There are many levels of call centers in India. From large enterprises run by MNCs with stricter scrutiny and qualification standards to small, fifty-seat "mom and pop" operations run by entrepreneurs (often returning NRIs). The truth is there is one major qualification for the job; he has it. The demand is fierce. I am certain he could get in.

Has it occured to you guys that this person is not really "get a job" and settle down kind??
Whether or not he can get a job in India is irrelevant as I dont think this guy seeks one. If at 25 he hasnt had a job in the US (unemp 4.5%) than what makes you think that he will look for a job in India?? There are cars in India too, you know, to be stolen !!

RC,

You are absolutely correct and I apologize for the digression. The issue at hand is the craziness of the situation for the guy.

Risible,

I am fully aware of the different kinds of Call Centers and for his qualification for getting a job, it is a discussion for another board.

what makes you think that he will look for a job in India?? There are cars in India too, you know, to be stolen !!

The only difference is, if he tries to steal those, he still has nothing to do with them (what's he going to do? drive back to America?) and if he gets caught, he'll have more than just the police to deal with. And what's all this about it being too hard for him to pick up a local dialect? If he's got English down, he can at least communicate with people and eventually pick up another language. It isn't unheard of; just look at Mexican immigrants in Spanish-speaking communities in California. I still have little sympathy for him. Regardless of how much a baby some people would like to believe he is, the law is the law. I'm sure he would have known by at least age 17 that he wasn't a citizen. That alone should've been a hint to him to cool down and watch his actions, especially after 9/11 happened. By simply making an exception because he's such a poor little baby, it only encourages his behavior(ie. petty theft, lack of job..etc.).

Has it occured to you guys that this person is not really "get a job" and settle down kind??

Yeah sure RC. My initial reaction was that he'd turn up in the Mumbai mafia. If he's bright and has some decent survival skills, he could probably deal smack to the thousands of Israelis who turn up in Goa to unwind after their mandatory millitary service - and make much more money than a call center drone, as someone mentioned above. The possibilities are endless; the world exists for the takers.

If he wants to get back to the states he just has to make his way to somewhere in Central America. From there to Mexico, and then freight train or bus to the Arizona desert - surviving a night with rattle snakes, wild turkeys and one bottle of water.

Shouldn't there be some kind of law that if you are adopting a child from another country you ought to process their papers promptly for citizenship? How unstable is it for a kid to be plucked from an orphanage (or wherever), brought to a completely new country as a toddler and then inform him years later that he isn't even a citizen. Citizenship status needs to be a strict criteria for adoption. Lot's of people get messed up around those late teen years and it is the responsibility of the state to straighten things out -- that is the state that he grew up in NOT one he's never really seen. A US returned, adopted felon with white parents who can't speak Hindi. Show some compassion Mr. Judge, its lent.

this is totally appalling that they want to deport him. whatever happened to your tired, your weary...? and at any rate, his mother should take some of the responsibility for bringing him here and then (a) not filling out the paperwork properly, and (b) raising him in an environment that allowed him to reach less than his potential. if they want to deport him, they should deport her too. Too many americans are isolationist and complacent about what happens to non-legal residents and immigrants. if there were consequences for citizens, too, maybe we'd rethink our attitude towards others.

sohwhat, I don't understand what you are trying to say? Citizens, by definition, are different from non-legal residents (i.e., illegal immigrants). Immigration is a hugely complicated issue (underscored by this case). I would say the huge interest in the immigration issue shows that Americans are not complacent, but rather troubled by a largely dysfunctional system. And last time I checked there were consequences for citizens: I don't think American citizens are allowed to steal cars. I'm pretty sure they put citizens in jail, too. As for deportation, lots of people want to come to the US. Why should a law breaker that a spot that a more deserving person should get? I don't think this young man should necessarily be deported, but he shouldn't have broken the law. And it sounds like he got chances to get his act together and didn't. It's his responsibility; he's 25.

By the way, this may be hard for desi parents to understand, but bad kids sometimes happen to good parents. Not saying she was a good parent, but it's not always the parents fault when a kid 'goes bad'.

whatever happened to your tired, your weary...?

It is the adoptee's fault. Why didnt he insist to his mother about his citizenship?? So what if he was 3?? This is a nation of laws. When he was asking for icecream and coockies (at age 4), instead he should have asked for citizenship papers. He must understand, he is NOT american like his parents. If his parents break the law, they are not going to be deported to Northern Europe.

All

The US has been deporting 100,000s of convicted naturalized citizens back to their countries of origin. This has been going on for about 8-9 years now. Even if you currently hold a US passport but if you were born elesewhere, if you commit a felony, deportation hearings will be started against you. Yes, I know there are people who have managed to escape this but believe me, a substantial amount have not. (It is cruel and inhuman but it is the law.)

There are two holding facilities: one in New Mexico and one in Arizona.

This is the result of one of the anti-immigrant laws passed something like 9-10 years ago. The ACLU has been fighting it without much success.

Under this particular law, Schultz would still be deported even if he held an American passport.

sp

@Floridian "A Shantaram story in reverse if he is sent back to India."
Quite possible that he will be prone to repeat his behavior in India in the event he is eventually deported. I had the very same thought while reading the post.

And I too echo the sentiment expressed earlier that this fellow is essentially an American; to him, India is probably a foreign country in all respects. It's different when someone is 2nd generation and has ties back to India (visits, family, friends, etc.)

"From there to Mexico, and then freight train or bus to the Arizona desert - surviving a night with rattle snakes, wild turkeys and one bottle of water. "

Risible those wild turkeys are no joke...hella mean

I think he may have a bigger issue with his "Suave" looks. Seriously, the only things they need to deport are his hair and pubic stache.

"It is the adoptee's fault. Why didnt he insist to his mother about his citizenship?? So what if he was 3?? This is a nation of laws. When he was asking for icecream and coockies (at age 4), instead he should have asked for citizenship papers. He must understand, he is NOT american like his parents. If his parents break the law, they are not going to be deported to Northern Europe."

Are you serious...?

Are you serious...?

Allow me: No.

Adoptive parent stepping onto platform...

For those who are questioning how Mr. Scholutz came into this country but is not a citizen, let me explain:

Non-Hindu foreigners adopting from India do not have a full and final adoption in India. Hindus may adopt in the Indian courts under the Hindu Adoption and Maintenance Act. Non-Hindus may receive guardianship from the courts under the Guardians and Wards Act. You can bring a child you have guardianship of into the U.S. for the purposes of adoption on an IR-4 Visa. The child receives a green card. At present, that child does not become an American citizen until the adoption is finalized in the U.S. court system (length of time before that can happen differs from state to state, but generally it can be done within a year of guardianship).

The Indian government currently requires that all foreign adoptive parents finalize their children's adoptions abroad within 2 years of guardianship to avoid precisely this scenario (if it's not completed by that time, by law the sponsoring adoption agency is required to take custody of the child and work oon an alternative placement). However, this was not always the case. Before the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 (signed into law by Clinton), children who had full and final adoptions abroad (came in on an IR-3 visa) and those who came in under guardianship (IR-4 visa) were not automatically granted citizenship - their parents had to apply for such (or themselves, once they reached adulthood). Some (perhaps many?) adoptive parents just never took this step for whatever reason - time, expense, lack of knowledge, or just not caring about it.

My view: this man should be in an American jail, not deported. Yes, he could have applied for citizenship after he reached adulthood. But I've heard of too many situations where adult international adoptees presumed their parents did everything appropriately and that they had citizenship, only to find out the hard way that they did not (and not only because of criminal histories - some merely when going to apply for a U.S. passport and finding out they didn't have the documents that entitled them to one).

Stepping down off platform...

Whoops - that should have read "Mr. Schultz."

glass houses:

Risible those wild turkeys are no joke...hella mean

I've heard! I have an undocumented buddy from Central America who traversed the desert to get here. The great danger with snakes is stepping on one. Generally they will turn the other way and book if spotted by a horde of people. But the turkeys are a different story: they are unafraid, and will bite your ass.

The bus "programs" give you one bottle of water at the drop off; generally its a good idea to bring more. The trains are good, but people fall asleep and fall right off, killing themselves.

Thanks Intern, for answering.

Thanks Intern, for answering.

;)

The Mara Salvatrucha issue underlines the inter-connectdness between immigration (legal or otherwise) and the disparities that exist in this hemisphere. Many of the Maras are children of illegal immigrants and those who used the amnesty and TPS programs who created their own gangs based on a self-identified need for community, exclusion from U.S. society, and lack of supportive family structure, and a failure of individual responsibility. But it's not an easy task to find a root cause, and I don't think it's justfiable to say that U.S. policy is largely to blame without giving an adequate accounting of the governance failures in El Salvador, the lack of economic opportunities there that "push" migration to the U.S., the civil wars (where the U.S. and others took sides) and the lack of family units in towns where 90% of the men have gone elsewhere to work.

I wouldn't blame only the U.S. for the proliferation of Mara Salvatrucha, but the deportation aspect of it is a big deal. But there are also other factors to which the U.S. is also connected. Why were the Salvadoran refugees out on the streets of L.A., where the gang was formed? Because they couldn't easily obtain jobs since most came here illegally, because the U.S. refused to acknowledge them as actual war refugees as instead called them "economic migrants." Acknowledging them as refugees would have confirmed that there was indeed a brutal war going on, funded by the billions the U.S. was giving the Salvadoran government to crush the "commie" FMLN. The asylum approval rate for Salvadorans in the 1980s was under 3 percent, while the majority of applicants from communist countries or from governments that the U.S. opposed were approved. There is also the fact that many who joined MS-13 were former soldiers in the Salvadoran army, where they learned their violent tactics. Guess who trained/funded the Salvaodran army? Good ol' U.S....I'm not trying to say they are the only ones to blame, but they are intimately connected to El Salvador's recent political history and played a role in the gang's proliferation. It's just one example to think critically about the U.S. view of other countries (particularly in the third world) as a dumping ground for criminals.

"I'm not trying to say they're the only ones to blame" Except, that, Sonia, you are.

Doesn't it bother anyone here that governance is so incredibly poor in some of these countries? Blaming the US is the best excuse a proto-thug can use to deflect criticism. Chavez is trashing Venezuala, no one else. And, thanks to that, tons of Venzualans are relocating to Florida, and even here in Boston. Tons of real estate is being bought up.

Look, I know like I'm always trying to deflect criticism from the US, which is not my aim. It's just the mindlessness of some of the criticism that rankles. It's like you are obsessed with the malfeasance of the US and don't really care about anyone else. It's not ultimately helpful to the people you profess to care about.

Okay, I just wanted to clarify that I know you brought up El Salvador and I brought up Venezuala, but, jeez. The critical thinking is so incredibly one directional.

I'd like to see some substantiation of Sonya's claim that naturalized US citizens are being deported for committing felonies. I've never heard of such a thing, except in the case of former Nazis - and those deportations were for the original coverup, not any subsequent crime.

MD on April 4, 2007 05:52 PM · Direct link

"I'm not trying to say they're the only ones to blame" Except, that, Sonia, you are.

Doesn't it bother anyone here that governance is so incredibly poor in some of these countries? Blaming the US is the best excuse a proto-thug can use to deflect criticism. Chavez is trashing Venezuala, no one else. And, thanks to that, tons of Venzualans are relocating to Florida, and even here in Boston. Tons of real estate is being bought up.

Look, I know like I'm always trying to deflect criticism from the US, which is not my aim. It's just the mindlessness of some of the criticism that rankles. It's like you are obsessed with the malfeasance of the US and don't really care about anyone else. It's not ultimately helpful to the people you profess to care about.

For the record, yes there is corruption and a lack of adequate governance in El Salvador, as in many other countries of the world. Happy? And the Salvadoran government DOES use MS-13 as scapegoats and blames everything on them as a way to cover up for their own incompetence.

But that's the issue here? Deporation. MS-13 was formed in Los Angeles, not El Salvador. It came to El Salvador and the rest of Central America when the U.S. deported the gang members. The U.S. was obviously in a better position than war-torn El Salvador to deal with them, yet it sent them back anyway.

As for the Venezuelans flocking to Florida and the East Coast, I'm sure it's just the rich ones. And for the record, I am not a fan nor a hater of Chavez.

Sonia, I made the point that there are a number of causes for MS13, including US policy. I just don't think you can attribute them all to U.S. policy. Having worked on a lot of the CSS cases in the 1990s, I realized that it was a combination of poor policy and bureaucratic inaction, but also migrants taking advantage of the immigration system. Temporary Protected Status, while not the same as refugee status in legal terms, did give people work permits, so your argument about having to turn to gang life because they didn't have a job isn't true. There actually were a large number of Salvadorans given asylee status or TPS in some form (over 2 million), and a look at the asylum stats shows that it's not just the vague notion of "from governments the US opposed" that determines who is granted asylum.

Gang life existed in El Salvador prior to the MS13 arrival -- I think the difference may be the scale and scope of violence associated with it that MS13 members brought with them. I suspect of the current crop of MS13 members fall in the 18-25 age range. They weren't in the Salvadoran army. It's hard to drum up support for the idea that a person can come to the US illegally and commit serious crimes and then demand that the US government and taxpayer should allow them to be "dealt with" in the US instead of their country. Though it's important to note that the US is facing the MS13 problem too.

I just saw something on newamericanmedia.org about the parents of an Indian-American spelling bee champion being deported. Apparently, they are Hindu extremists who supported demolition of the Babri Masjid and they sought political asylum based on the fear of religious persecution by Muslims. My initial reaction was - WTF? Hindus persecuted in India by Muslims? Are you freaking kidding me? Then, I calmed down for a bit and realized that people who have lived here for years and stand to lose much (in this case the parents were deported but their super-speller-son has stayed in the US and is living with a relative) will say anything in order to stay here.

I do hope that this post receives a re-visit when this story plays out -- two foreign national Yale students on visas who may have committed a crime (flag burning no less!). Anyone think that there'll be some different standards applied?

Before you get your collective dhoti all up in a tangle about deportations targeted against nonwhites - read this: Americans Deported. This has been going on for a number of years now, and it has been affecting adoptees and other permanent residents from European as well as from non-European countries. I'm surprised no one here was aware of this, since a couple of years ago it was all over the news.

it's not just the vague notion of "from governments the US opposed" that determines who is granted asylum.

I have a hard time buying this. Look at U.S. policy for Cubans who arrive on U.S. land versus for Haitians. Immigration policy is definitely influenced by U.S. foreign policy. And while a lot of Salvadorans eventually received TPS status, the same year (1984, I believe) that their asylum approval rate was under 3 percent, it was well over 50 percent for people fleeing communist-controlled countries. Nicaraguans had a relatively high approval rate, and that country's U.S.-backed Somoza regime had just been overthrown by the Sandanistas. Immigration policy is one of the many things that governments manipulate to present a certain image to the public (i.e. communism is bad so therefore we must "save" these people by giving them refuge here).

Lakshmi
That story was covered with this post

Of course there's a link between foreign policy and refugee policy. But that doesn't mean a nexus between supposedly "good" countries" and "bad countries" and approved asylum applications exists. At the end of the day, each individual has to demonstrate a well-founded fear of government persecution based on one or more certain factors. The reviewing officer looks at the evidence provided by the applicant as well as reports and information from a variety of sources. A fear of being killed in a gang war, while a valid fear certainly, generally hasn't been enough to meet the legal standard under U.S. asylum law. One increasingly common ground that applicants today base their asylum claims on is sexual orientation. You won't find, though, these claims being approved or rejected based on the applicants being from "bad countries" versus "good countries. It's not that simple. Some interesting stas are here.

Sorry, don't mean to threadjack on this one issue. Feel free to email me directly though.

Dieter and others, you guys are watching too much Fox. It's always some nice all american white victim who is being talked about for hours on end while thousands of poor minorities don't even merit a mention.

What part of India is he from ? He does not look Indian at all..

But I guess if he cut his hair short and got glasses -- he would look some what Indian..

My guess would be one of the areas in the Northeast, i.e. Nagaland

I think that it is reasonable for him to be charged for the crimes he did commit, but why he is being punished for a mistake his mother made after adopting him as a toddler? If he was adopted at 3, how did he have any control over whether his mother properly finished filling in the forms? Additionally, regardless of the fact he is being sent to India (rather than some other country?), can you imagine, no matter who you are, being told you must leave the country and never come back, leaving the place you grew up, your family, and everything you have known?

Additionally, such a rule means that the bonds of adopting a child are not as important or real as giving birth to one. He has grown up in the US for as long as he can remember, as part of a family here. By sending him back, it seems to me that they are basically stating that families built through adoption are not as 'real' as blood relatives. It seems like it could open a larger issue into adoption and rights of adopted children.

Yeah.. It is cruel to expect someone who has grown up in the US to go back to the third world, and it doesn't mention if the dude has been to India or not before ? It is going to be a major eye opening expereince for him..

I don't think it has to do with "first world" or "third world" at all.... if he was being deported to France, or Japan, or any "first world" country, I think he would be just as scared and have just as hard of a time trying to survive as in India...

Most important, after having lived in America for so long, will his digestive system ever adapt to the Indian cuisine??? What about his drinking the Indian water?? That will be an interesting experience for him and the journalists.

fsowalla on April 5, 2007 07:07 AM · Direct link

Of course there's a link between foreign policy and refugee policy. But that doesn't mean a nexus between supposedly "good" countries" and "bad countries" and approved asylum applications exists. At the end of the day, each individual has to demonstrate a well-founded fear of government persecution based on one or more certain factors. The reviewing officer looks at the evidence provided by the applicant as well as reports and information from a variety of sources. A fear of being killed in a gang war, while a valid fear certainly, generally hasn't been enough to meet the legal standard under U.S. asylum law. One increasingly common ground that applicants today base their asylum claims on is sexual orientation. You won't find, though, these claims being approved or rejected based on the applicants being from "bad countries" versus "good countries. It's not that simple. Some interesting stas are here.

Sorry, don't mean to threadjack on this one issue. Feel free to email me directly though.

I don't disagree with you, but I do think that even legitimate cases of persecution will be denied if the government can use this denial to its advantage. My professor was telling us once about a case in Chicago in the late 80s of a Salvadoran man who fled the war and actually had a bullet lodged in the back of his head. The judge STILL denied him asylum, saying that he could have gotten that in a street fight or something. I think it's a safe bet that had this been a Nicaraguan and not a Salvadoran, his request for asylum would have been approved, with the government touting "look what these commie Sandanistas are doing to innocent people!" I also think that the U.S. would have been more legally sympathetic to Salvadorans had it not been investing billions of dollars in crushing the FMLN and left with justifying to the public that the money was not going toward war and human rights abuses.

India wouldn't be bad but I can understand his reluctance to be deported back to a country he has no ties to, thanks to his dumbass adoptive parent.

Dieter, why don't you stop getting your panties in a bunch whenever you sense an opening for white-bashing?

Sadaiyappan, You should really look into the diversity of India before making statements on what constitutes an Indian. Those people living in the northeast aren't "Chinese," they're Indian. We come in all shapes, sizes and colors, unlike Bollywood actors.

i myself am a deported,criminal offender,i have a doughter in the usa,and my parents took me to the us,now they became citizens,i never commited a felony crime,and i pleaded guilty to a domestic violence charge,because i was tired of courts,and the life i was leading,i never harmed anyone fisically,and i was deported because of that,i lived in the us 22 years,i have a 4 year old doughter,that now has no father,her mother is not in that great of shape,she is a druggy,and the question is,whats going to be of my doughter?.

i can´t really take care of her financially,because i make enough money to bearly take care of myself,i´m not proud of what i did in the past,i can shore say that i changed my ways,i can take care of myself,who´s going to do that with my doughter,i was never asked to be taken to the us,now y feel that i am american,even do i was born in a different country,inmigrations told me that i would never be able to come back because of my criminal history,i miss my doughter,and i shore hope she is well ,this are the cases that matter the most i think,the same is happening with the adoptive mother of this indian kid,well he did some things wrong,i´m shore his mother is going to miss his son,i think unstead of spending all this money deporting and housing some one for ever in a jail.thy should spend it rehabilitating this kid,i was rehabilitaded,and it doesn´t mean that i´m not going to pay for the cosecuences of my actions trust me i did,i spent enough time in jail,for what i´ve done,i just hope that CLAIRA CHAPARRO ,my baby has a chance to live with her father,or i hope that she can find a good dad to be with her,i love her so much ,i just want to tell her i´m so sorry for not being able to be there for her

I'm in the same boat this young man is in I was deported to jamaica and I left there when I was 6yrs old went to panama central america and was adopted by us citizens who where active military when I was 12yrs old. My parents didn't finalize the adoption and now I'm back in panama trying to make it i have a 15yrold daughter that is going through depression for all of this and i have no way of getting back to my family. I pray for him it is so hard I also lost my leg to cancer when i was 14 in the US and now I can't afford a leg here and insurance forget about it I wish you luck

He was from Sikkim, India. Which is no longer there, he was an orphan before his US mother adopted him. He has no ties what so ever to India and barely remembers anything of the place. Of course he is scared, and also done his time for his crime in the Utah Prison before they decided to deport him. He also was not aware that he was not a citizen before it was brought to his attention in court. His mother may have thought it was all taken care of. Her neglagence was bad, but her intention when adopting this kid was good. I dont believe that deportation should have even come into play on this situation. Teens do stupid things, and I believe he has already done the time for the crime so leave it at that.