Unfortunately, the horrific shooting rampage at Virginia Tech (240 miles from D.C.), which is now being described as the deadliest in U.S. history may does have a brown angle, if only to further a reckless agenda. The death toll is up to 32 33; at least 22 28 people are injured. Tipster Hema emailed us about Debbie Schlussel, a blogger who didn’t waste any time before irresponsibly blaming “Pakis” for the tragedy (I have quoted most of it so you don’t have to go to the site— it doesn’t deserve the traffic):
Who is the “Asian” Mass Murderer at Virginia Tech?
Here’s what we know about the murderer of at least 32 students and maimer of at least 28 more at Virginia Tech, today:
* The murderer has been identified by law enforcement and media reports as “a young Asian male.”
* The Virginia Tech campus has a very large Muslim community, many of which are from Pakistan (per terrorism investigator Bill Warner).
* Pakis are considered “Asian.”
snip
If I were Asian, I’d be legitimately upset with this broad generalization of the mass murderer’s identity.
Why am I speculating that the “Asian” gunman is a Pakistani Muslim? Because law enforcement and the media strangely won’t tell us more specifically who the gunman is. Why?
And the ass-covering finale:
Even if it does not turn out that the shooter is Muslim, this is a demonstration to Muslim jihadists all over that it is extremely easy to shoot and kill multiple American college students.
So far, there is no indication that she might be right. I pray no one decides to indulge their inner-vigilante after reading her hate-spew. Enough people have been hurt by this nightmare.
May the memory of those students whose lives were stolen be eternal. This is just heart-breaking. I’ll update this story as it develops…
::
UPDATE 8: Minal Panchal is confirmed among the lost (Thanks, brown_fob).
Information about Minal’s death came in late because no immediate family member was present on campus.I remember her life here.
UPDATE 7: Information about the gunman (Thanks, Desishiksa):
Cho Seung Hui was a South Korean native who immigrated to this country as a child, officials said. His lifeless body was found in Norris Hall, a classroom building, among those of several other slain students, Virginia state police superintendent Col. Steve Flaherty said. Cho, a senior, had apparently taken his own life. Cho graduated in 2003 from Westfield High School in Fairfax…
Cho, described by fellow students a loner, cleared a federal criminal background check at the time his green card was renewed in 2003, as did his family, a U.S. immigration official said. [WaPo]
UPDATE 6: Regarding VoiceInTheHead’s comment:
It has also been reported that an Indian student, Minal Panchal, is missing after the shootout. [DNA]
UPDATE 5: A desi Professor is among the lost (Thanks, Murugan):
Reports have it that an Indian-origin professor is among those killed in the campus massacre.
Professor G V Loganathan of the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering was teaching in a class in the Norris Hall – one of the crime scenes – when the gunman went on rampage. [IBN]Abhi remembers him here.
UPDATE 4: In a move which shocks absolutely no one, the blogger who inspired our post uses the latest information in this case (Chinese, not “Paki”) to rail against furriners coming to America for college (Thanks again, Hema):
So, the perpetrator of the Virginia Tech massacre is a Chinese national here on a student visa. And today, this alien did “the job that Americans just won’t do.”
Remember that the next time you hear President Bush and Condi Clueless waxing lyrical about how we need more foreign students in America. We do not. Remember the Mana Saleh Almanajam and Shaker Mohsen Alsidran, two Saudi students in Tampa, last year, who hijacked a school bus full of kids while wearing trench coats in 90-plus degree weather?
…And remember: Just because this attacker was not Muslim, doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of potential and hopeful ones among the thousands Muslim nations are sending here to “study” under Saudi King Abdullah’s scholarships.[pure crap]See? This is a teaching opportunity, to remind us of how evil Muslims are.
UPDATE 3: Campus police thought it was an “isolated incident”; the email warning they sent was probably too little, too late.
“You can second guess all day. We acted on the best information we had.”
At 9:29 a.m., the university sent an e-mail warning students that a gunman was on the loose and to stay indoors. At about that time, a shooter opened fire at the engineering school’s Norris Hall, killing 30 people. Several students leapt to safety from upper stories, and the gunman’s body was later found at the building, Flinchum said. [Bloomberg]
UPDATE 2: CircusInJungle points us to Wiki, which first said the shooter was “James Jay Kim”. The article has been updated, no longer reflects that.
UPDATE 1: Amardeep provides a link where an eye-witness IDs the suspect as “Asian”; the shooter may have been looking for his girlfriend.
*I have amended the title (was Tragedy at Virginia Tech; Quick, Blame Pakis) and original content of this post because it seemed like the appropriate thing to do; several of Schlussel’s quotes have been removed because they serve no further purpose here. Additionally, updates are now in reverse-chronological order, to facilitate information dissemination.




I know its not your intention, but its not wise to post rumors and opinions at this stage....
I respectfully disagree. Schlussel has an agenda ("Pakis"?), until people can tell all us furriners apart, it directly impacts us. We have a right to know. I think your comment belongs more on her blog, but I wouldn't recommend wasting your time... :(
very tragic. if we can all take a moment of silence.
what kind of fucked up shit is that? what is this comment based on? stereotypes? bombings and school shootings are in the same category now? was the last school shootings done by brown kids? also was mr. tim mcveigh muslim? what is the muslim civilian casualty up to now in the middle east?
My thoughts and prayers go out to VT. How horrific.
I'm sorry ANNA, but you can go onto DU-type blogs and find people blaming Bush and the Iraq war for this: I know, because some of the right wing blogs are linking to them, saying: look, look what this says about the left. The better ones offer their thoughts and prayers, and caution patience, and not to jump to any conclusions.
Debbie Schlussel is a wannabe media whore ala Ann Coulter. She will use ANY incident to claim muslim/arabs are behind it; Anything she's says or writes is suspect.
I've been trying to catch the updates all day. It's very disturbing and I really can't see myself getting involved in a speculative dialog so early on. I'll get my guns out for when the identity of the shooter is known.
I'm just incredibly disappointed.
Not to mention that "Paki" is a racial slur equivalent to "ch*nk." She needs to be held accountable for saying this shit. I'm contacting mediamatters.org right now.
I left a comment on Shlussel's page regarding "Pakis"...how ignorant is she...
Oh good grief! I would not expect to find anything less from a hardcore right wing blog.
The right wing is on their knees now praying to God that the killer is a Muslim!
Ohhh...I can just sense their collective angst as the authorities have not yet disclosed the identity of the killa'
This is a sad sad event. I am still sitting here in shock.
I wonder what Schlussel will have to say if I proposed a theory that some one was trying to take out the brown people on campus, given the high percentage of "homegrown terrorists" there.
What is a DU-type blog?
I went to VT 1993-1997 and it is just tragic to read about what happened at my school.
MD is talking about this site:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
And she is partially correct. There is always people on both sides that bring out the worst.
PS: Could you link those websites MD? Be curious to see what threads are being as being representative.
I don't understand why people feel the need to attack the media, government, etc. at a time like this. The shooter is dead. Possibly his identity is not being released so that a)the shooters family can be contacted b)the shooter's identity and, therefore, his nationality is still unknown or c)that information will not bring back the students who died today.
I read Miss Schlussel's blog. Its so hurtful to lash out at the messengers instead of mourning and sending prayers to the family's of those lost. Also, no one has confirmed that the shooter is even a student, so the make-up of the student body is fairly irrelevant. I found it interesting that she felt this tragedy showed how easy it is to gun down American students. As though the shooter is acting as a terrorist by encouraging terrorists--even if the attack was not motivated by terror.
That's a stretch. She's spreading hate. It is unfortunate.
My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims, those injured and the Va Tech community.
I never understood this logic, like Muslim jihadists can't figure out by themselves to run into a public area and shoot people?? These f'ing people spend every waking moment of their lives figuring out how to end other life. Don't you think "run into an area and just shoot" would've crossed their mind already?
To be honest, this sort of event does have crazy white cracker written all over it, but so did the beltway sniper thing. So I've stopped trying to guess nationality. But it seems somewhat outside the jihadi M.O.
yeah, its completely disgusting; don't worry, even if its not a muslim/brown person, they will use their highly developed logical faculties to draw rarefied and exceedingly subtle (as a sledgehammer, that is) implications
At least one first-hand witness -- who was himself shot in the arm -- has described the shooter as "Asian," which in the U.S. usually means East Asian: link
Several sites have indicated a girlfriend connection.
At the end of the day, if the right-wing gun lobbyists of America weren't so powerful, shit like this wouldn't happen in the first place. I hope you desi yanks put that bitch Shlussel in her place. I live in London and the anti-Islam here is pretty horrendous, but if I were in the US, I'd be a very angry young woman. I remember working with the most right-wing self-righteous redneck from Illinois who used www.jihadwatch.com as his main source of news. I'd be flipping out like ANNA too!
From wikipedia
Btw, Norris Hall is the Engineering bldg. Given the higher percentages of desis and Asians in general in fields like Engineering, one would wonder this shooter was out to get Asians/brown folks.
What galls me (aside from the ridiculous logical leap required to go from "shooter" to "Muslim jihadist") is that Schlussel is either so ignorant or so disingenuous that she actually responded to someone's comment referencing her use of "Pakis" with "YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM IS FLAWED. EITHER TERM IS CORRECT. WHAT IS THIS--THE IMUS THOUGHT POLICE?".
and there is one commenter on Schlussel's blog who finds it 'shocking' that a large number of students at VT are from China and India. I am waiting for some hater to pick up on that comment and run with it.
Is the only way some people know to mourn is to hate?
Very sad. Doesn't look like terrorism and I don't think Bush has a girlfriend.
It's pointless to write on Schlussel's blog or email. She loves the attention. I've read tons on her and nothing in her history shows that she cares about a different view point, or even, to care when she's wrong to actually say that. For example, she went after a junior republican senator from California - Darrell Issa because he went on a trip to the mid-east and his ethnic background is Lebanese. She claimed without any proof that he met with Arafat - even though there were other senior senator's there and there was nothing else anywhere to corroborate this -- she went on a tirade about how he was working with terrorists. The result of this was that an extremist Jewish group tried to blow up his offices, but were caught before they could. Schlussel claimed that her article never said anything about committing violence but didn't exactly show her proof that he did anything either.
I suppose people in the USA media don't realise that 'Paki' is like using the N word?
Really sad and horrifying news. And this e-mail ANNA quotes actually makes my spine chill.
Commiserations Americans, really sad and almost unthinkable occurence.
Yeah, the ignorance of it all sends chills down my spine. It's a deranged Star Wars mentality when it comes to the likes of her. She should be sued for her comment.
and I don't think Bush has a girlfriend.
.....that was hilarious!
You don't need "white" when you write "cracker".
I really do wish people would wait until all the facts were in before jumping to conclusions. This applies more to Debbie Shlutskie's blog than SM.
And you know? I'm really starting to loathe certain parts of America with a deepseated vehemence, because this kind of thing is popping up ALL THE TIME these days. Her comment about the "Imus Thought Police" is especially ironic, since that would be just another example of the kind of intolerance that's made it uncomfortable for me to go to movies, ride a plane, or make eye-contact with a random stranger because they might THINK I WAS A TERRORIST.
When oh when will the country swing left again? Please, when?
Shouldn't the anger of the readers here be at the shooter who took over 30 young lives, more then Schlussel personal blog.
Looking at the images here, it looks like the police were rounding up Asian student(s) after some info on the shooter's race.
http://www.roanoke.com/photography/slideshows/galleries/vaTechShootings041607/gallery.html
http://www.roanoke.com/photography/slideshows/galleries/vaTechShootings041607/images/image4.jpg
http://www.roanoke.com/photography/slideshows/galleries/vaTechShootings041607/images/image6.jpg
If you listen to the eyewitness account on washingtonpost.com, you'll hear a student, who was in the room at the time of the shooting, describe the shooting. When the reporter asks the student to describe how the shooter looked, he simply says "serious." My guess is that if the shooter looked like he might possibly be Arab or Muslim, eyewitness accounts would most definitely note that right away.
more rumors from angryasianman:
In the morning, he went to her dormitory. She was not there so he shot her roommate and some staff of the dormitory. They didn't shut down the university, so he continued and tried to find the girlfriend in the classroom. He didn't know the exact location, so he has shot a couple of classes and then himself.
@34 - Brownfob
If your a police officer and you just got the word that a the suspect is Asian, specifically Chinese, etc. What would you do? They are probably doing the safe thing both for themselves and the rest of the campus. At least they are not shooting first and asking questions later.
I am a student at William and Mary in Virginia and we consider V. Tech to be a sister college. I nor any of my classmates can describe the shock and the heartache we have for what happened in Virgina Tech. Many of our friends from Northern Virginia attended V. Tech. Right now, we are frantically contacting our friends in facebook. Fortunetely, my friends are safe. But this is a opportunity for mourning, not for pointing blame. The shooter might be Indian/ Pakistani. He might be Asian. But now is not the time for pointing fingers.
I am disappointed at what Schlussel is saying. Most of us don't even know the identities of the people who are shot. Now is not the time to push an agenda.
I hope everyone has the virtue of mourning the victims of this unfortunate tragedy.
Analyzing Schlusser's writing to point out the kind of hate it is attempting to fan against an entire community (with the hundreds of potential deaths that might result from such hate-politics in the US/world arena) is just as important as sadness and anger at the shooter.
Thanks, Anna for that sadly illuminating post. It is important for us to be alert to how language gets used to make veiled (or come to think of it not so veiled) insinuations and planting seeds of hate and suspicion.
brownout:
I'm not pointing fingers here. Officers did the right thing.
My post was to provide some 'facts' (slim) in the wake of the rumors that have been floating around.
Also, I don't think any of the students care about what rightwingers or leftwingers blog. Most of us are just horrified that this would happen at a university like V. Tech. We are just facebooking each other to ensure we are safe.
AVi,
I am sorry for what you and your friends are going through - I pray for the best for you all.
AVi is right, and we shouldn't allow people like Schlussel to get to us like this. That way they win.
...listening to the stream right now-- they're interviewing a sophomore who was saying that it was so windy, helicopters couldn't medevac victims. :( It was unbelievably windy in DC; mailboxes blowing over, etc. Didn't even occur to me to connect the two.
Take care Avi, thoughts are with you.
that blog was sickening.
regardless of the ethnicity of the shooter-- he was clearly extremely disturbed to resort to such inhumane violence. i seriously believe we need to put an emphasis on mental health and well-being in the US. perhaps some tragedies like this could be prevented if screenings were more routine and mandatory.
also, the systems in place to purchase firearms both legally and illegally in the US are far too simple. gun violence plagues our nation in many ways. i really wonder how many tragedies in every type of community need to take place before our nation stops cowering behind the NRA and an outdated constitutional right.
Um...what?
In America, unlike the UK, the word "asian" applies to east asians not south asians. The shooter has been described as asian by a number of sources. You can therefore rest assured he is east asian. The Korean guy named is the most likely perpetrator at this point. Koreans are the most hot-headed and macho of east asians. They are also sick and tired of losing their korean girlfriends to white men with an asian fetish.
Clueless (#33):
No.
That guy was messed up, sure. But I don't really see what being angry at him would accomplish. I'm fairly certain he was unhappy and probably mentally ill, since he allegedly took his own life.
On the other hand, I think it's very appropriate and useful to be angry at someone who uses a tragic incident like this to fan the flames of racial hatred purely so she can get an extra 5 minutes of fame in her otherwise stupid and meaningless life.
Way to lower the level. Dumb generalizations about ethnic groups are NOT welcome here. Desist or be gone. Thank you.
Ummm, let us be careful of not committing Schlusserisms here...
For shame.
This entire post decried stereotyping, and look at what you wrote about Koreans. My thoughts are with anxious students facebooking each other, heartbroken family members and everyone else affected by this tragedy. How can yours even go there?
UM. WHAT?!
Seriously, what the hell is wrong here?
Avi, thoughts and hugs. Take care.
All generalizations have a kernel of truth in them; Prema's statements are stupid but having known many Koreans, they are not all together untrue, in terms of Koreans being hotheaded.
All generalizations have a kernel of truth in them
Yes, but Schlussel's blog post is a demonstration of just how dangerous/insensitive it is to generalize based on "a kernel of truth." I think we should avoid doing the same, while simultaneously castigating Schlussel.
Seriously, stop being idiots. We ban for bullshit like this.
From the Washington Post:
The man in the photo brown_fob linked to where police are arresting an asian looking man was a reporter, who was left later.
Mass murders like these always get smoke & mirrored to death. It's the youth culture, jihadists, Asians, martians -- but never the guns.
Avi, our thoughts and prayers are with you, your friends and their families.
I agree with this statement, but the rest seems stereotypical regarding Koreans. If the shooter was Indian/Pakistani, they would definitely be describing him as Indian or Middle Eastern looking. The whole event is so tragic and shame on those people who are trying to use this situation to spread hate.
Prema #47, you forgot to mention that Koreans are nappy-headed hos (what, there are Koreans named Ho) ruled by a 5 foot tyrant with a bouffant hairstyle and an Elvis fixation. (We'll ignore the success story of South Korea for the purposes of this discussion). Also, next time, for 10 points, try to work Kimchee into your comment.
And, Salil #46, I feel you. There is no such thing as too much ammunition, especially when dealing with a large state school like this.
In all seriousness, Debbie Schlussel has a history of nutjobbery, so can we just ignore her and avoid giving her airtime? I also love how she's proposing the second shooter theory. Hey, wait, I know a famous assassination where they never found him either. Must've been Paki, the devious bugger! Debbie, how about this "The shooter had 2 guns. We all know from John Woo movies that Hong Kong heroes always have 2 guns and come flying into buildings shooting from both hands in slo-mo and with great acrobatic flair. So, the shooter must be from Hong Kong."
Tragic. Apparently this is the worst of such incidents.
this will undoubtedly sound insensitive, but i am echoing the sentiments of many south asians by stating i hope the rumours of the shooter being east-asian is a 'relief' regardless, its a barbaric and cowardly attack
That was in response to Schlussel's baseless conjecture (that many posters here are worried might be true) that the shooter might be desi. She knows full well (and so should all of you) that desis are not described as "asian" looking in America. She is just being dishonest.
The reports say that the shooter was asian and was reacting to losing his girlfriend.
NRA won't say anything until all the "facts are known".
Isn't this their stand always..shooting or no shooting.
Shodan: well said.
Would someone please delete the 'proud pakistani' remark!
Avi, our thoughts are with you, and the students and professors and all else whose lives have been cut down in this senseless way. Their families must be going through hell.
Deleted and BANNED. Wtf.
Regardless, of his ethnicity (the point is its irrelevant if a loon is a loon), people should complain like Naina said she would. The Bengali kid from East London who stabbed a pregnant woman with a heroin needle to comatize her before mugging her, didn't do it because he was a 'paki' or a 'jihadist', he did it because he was fucked in the head. These ignorant, right-wing media bods are too malicious. Calling someone a Paki is the same as calling someone a Nigger. IT ISN"T RIGHT. Lets be calm and work with the system to bring these muthafuckas down; send complaints, write letters to the editors, write artlicles, but always stay calm. I often get angry and I can let it show on this blog as with close friends and family, but I make a point of never appearing angry about such things among white people, a few of whom will gladly use it to make us look like the crazy, angry, difficult freaks who don't don't want to fit in with the rest of society..
In this time of tragedy the worst thing that we can do is indulge in hate-mongering - in this space least of all.
So please no "cracker" comments (# 17 ) Isn't is as offensive a term as the N-word or Paki?
And definitely no hateful stereotyping of Asians whether east Asians or South Asians ( # 54,# 47)
yeah, but you should have quit while you were ahead; as so many people pointed out above, we don't need more debbie'isms
Well said, Runa. Thank you.
I have yet to see a picture of peace or counselling. All I is see is uniforms and guns and more guns.
It would seem so, here.
What is it about this well-meant post that is bringing out everyones inner Schlusser!!!
Yes Baljit, stereotyping white people is WAY better than stereotyping brown people...NOT.
Can we instead focus on discussing support systems for young people that leave them with more options than killing, the violence that cultures that worship guns breed, the constant reiterating in our movies of 'strength' and 'bravery' of an action-based kind?
I always get amazed when desis, who are often victims of demonisation in the current climate, can essentialise and demonise other minorities. I shudder to think of how hurt an East Asian would be to read some of these comments.
Clueless, when Indira Gandhi was assassinated, an out of control media played a significant part in demonising innocent Sikhs and contributed to the dark atmosphere that followed. I think it's not a bad thing to keep an eye on any kind of collective culpability rhetoric and demonisation and hate mongering following events like this.
Ms. FinkNottle#75, I think it is because all South Asians are quick to stereotype.
Red Snapper the out of control media in India is alot more powerful after Indira death, then Ms.Debbie blog.
Also let not forger that over 3000 sikh's died after the death of 1 women in India. Now compare that to the death of 3000 people on 9/11 and the backlash against brown/desi looking people, last time I checked there were not 3000 dead brown/desi in the week after 9/11.
Ms
Straight out of Orwell...frickin' hilarious, if it wasn't so pathetic.
thank you red snapper for your comments (#76). tragedy is due to a lone psychotic gunman, not a whole ethnic group of people.
Red Snapper and Clueless, both of you are making good points. No need to compare tragedies, when every single one is awful.
Purush#79, I present to you sarchasm.
Since my views are in the center unlike those on the far left or far right I don't have anything to gain from this sad day.
But you can bet tommorow on the view Rosie O'Donnell will go off another left wing rant about gun control and just like some hardcore right winger will have some rant of there own tommorow.
Clueless, that doesnt really stack up with why notice should be taken of this lady's blog. I think you missed my point. It's a reason to be vigilant against the dissemination of this kind of thinking. Surely, you will agree, that demonisation like this is dangerous after an event of this type? In the context of 2007 it's not a bad thing to be aware and counter this, is it? Surely you don't think there's anything wrong with that, do you? Surely you're not saying that because things are not as bad as they were in Delhi 1984, nobody here and now should talk about or challenge this thinking? Sorry clueless, but that's not an argument.
Honestly, I wasnt comparing, I was just using an example of what can happen when demonisation shading into assertions of collective culpability takes place unchallenged in the aftermath of a horrific and violent act, and why it's not a bad thing to take notice and assert that it's wrong to do that, in response to Clueless's assertion that it should be ignored.
I know. And I know both of you have good intentions. I was just trying to steer things away from...well, you know. News like this always leaves us all raw, doesn't it? :(
over at feministe, jill makes a fair point:
i mean, no one had to point out it was a male. it was just understood.
This shooting was on April 16, Columbnine was on April 20, I think Waco was April 19 as was the Okalhoma City bombing were on April 19 also.
The middle of April is bad time of year. Plus the sad deaths of Nirvana Kurt Cobain and Alice In Chains Layne Staley were also in April.
I'm off to see Modest Mouse live tonight to get my mind off this for a few hours so I can't comment any more, but I hope the other people post that comment here don't forget that over 30 young people have died.
#88 -
I don't know that it was understood by default, there were only mentions of 'gunman' and 'shooter' most everywhere I read, until some news report mentioned that the gunman was male.
Honey, I think that aspect of it is rather unforgettable. It's almost impossible to contemplate continuously, it's so horrifying; it's not that people are willfully ignoring it (IMO). Even if things end up a bit too heavy...hope you do get your mind "off this".
Yes, peace.
Idiot Schlussel. Why would anyone think it's a good idea to foster paranoia about a terrorist attack? And, the CYA move only reinforces the paranoia (and in the extreme case gives hypothetical future terrorists ideas). Is she more interested in feeling powerful and being right than the truth? [note: rhetorical question]
#89: April/Spring is a bad time because students are stressed out by then. Which is one of the reasons Spring Breaks were created. I guess some people handle stress poorly.
I think people are over-hyping this terrorism stuff, anytime anything goes wrong, especially in the USA, they get scared about terrorist attacks. I guess you're a traumatized country since 9/11. "If they could get into my house once, what says they can't do it twice." Which is something the students are gonna go through in this situation too, because it's the second time there's a shooter scare on campus (or so I read online.) Good luck dealing with that, be strong! Students worldwide support you, don't let ONE person ruin YOUR campus for you.
I agree with the lady on one point: why did they not release further information? I remember on Sept 13th 2006, the media had released a lot of info on Kimveer Gill (although it was wrong information, for instance they assumed he was Caucasian at first.) Maybe it IS a Brown person at VT, and they don't want to scare the population or give incentive to racists to talk more smack.
wow, incredible how Schlussel is trying to spin this tragedy for some political end.
Schlussel, if you're reading this--do you really think the masses are really that ignorant and racist to find your brand of hate appealing?
it's funny--with all that talk of national security and "united we stand!" brand of patriotism, that looks down on any sort of crticial thinking, it's histrionic blame-the-other reactions that are so endemic to pundits like schlussel and bill o'reilly that are the most divisive of all.
I was in Virginia today, just north of where the shootings happened...taking my MCATs. I had no knowledge of this while I was trapped in a testing room, but when I came out...the entire state seemed to have gone quiet. Families are sitting at home, praying their children pick up their phones or a stranger doesn't call them to tell them their child was killed. This is a horrific tragedy, not the time to point blame towards any race, any stereotyper or racist pathetically running towards their biases to justify an event that was born out of hate and will only grow into the other aspects of our lives if we place this on where the killer came from. I'm still shaking, just watching and hearing the trembling voices of parents who could only hear "33 have died"...not if it was their child...panicking if they're not picking up the phone...worried sick...losing all faith in an academic institution...fearing every moment that it can happen again somewhere else. I hope they release the information of the killer soon, not whether he was Korean or not Pakistani, but what happened to him, what events led up to this, how he had such easy access to 9 mm automatics, what we can do to prevent someone we never speak to on campus or at work from deciding to permanently change and destroy the lives of innocents.
No, it's absolutely not. A quick proof: You calling the N-word the N-word instead of typing it out, why do that if the words are equivalent? I could go further, but this isn't the right place, so I wont.
A middle-eastern sounding VT student is on CNN right now. He took a video on his cellphone which is being shown all over.
His name is Jamal Albargouti. I wonder what Schlussel thinks of that.
When a mass murder comes up the pro-gun and anti-gun people always bring up their argument. In high school we had a cross-country meet the week after there was a mass murder in Killeen, TX where a guy drove his truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and started killing people. You may remember the media tried to blame the movie The Fisher King as his motivation since apparently he saw that movie before he died.
Pro-Gun: Well if people were allowed to carry guns then someone could have killed this guy sooner.
Anti-Gun: If guns were illegal there would be less shootings.
Pro-Gun: Well if guns are illegal then only the criminals will have guns. They will just get their guns illegally. If people are armed then people will think twice before using their gun.
I see some logic to both sides but personally I have a hard time seeing the logic of degenerating to the Wild Wild West, where everyone can settle an argument with the gun. Plus I think the pro-gun logic is flawed to a certain degree since most of these mass murderers seem to already have accepted that they are going to die and simply want to take revenge by claiming as many innocent lives as possible.
I want to believe in the goodness of humanity but events like this make it hard. Was Twain right about the Damned Human Race?
Ms Fink Nottle,
I never stereotyped anyone. I said a 'a few' white people among the white majority we live among. This is not the first time that I've heard of negative stereotyping of blacks, South Asians, Iranians, Jews, Arabs by certain backward, outrageous and callous commentators who use use and misuse the media.
I am entitled to my view that I don't feel entirely comfortable about venting my anger in public, because I did spend a lot of my youth feeling like a victim and getting angry would often backfire. I was actually thinking of Socrates and his approach in challenging what he felt was injustice, to reason with the misinformed - 'Why do you believe that etc..' rather than 'Fuck you bitch' (which would be my instinct).
All I was saying is that we need to fight the misrepresentations of whoever with a cool head. So calm yoirself down quick and embrace the idea that some f us aren't too happy about how we are being (mis)represented in the media. And no, that doesn't make me a Schussler or a hater of white people, thank you ver much.
He is from west bank, lived his entire life in Saudi Arabia. He is now talking about what he went through before he came here to the USA.
No, just the Awful German Language...
This news was very depressing for those of us who are teachers here in Virginia. We practice for these sorts of situations about once a month and it's always harrowing to hear about something tragic like this happening at a school. Or anyplace, at anytime.
Their poor parents and siblings.
HMF(# 97)
I did hesitate before typing it .I don't use that word and don't see it being used in the media so I don't know what the "acceptable" format of it is- if there is one.If I had said "C-word" I am pretty sure it would have been confused with another vulgar term .#74 Filmiholic confirmed that it was as offensive as I believed.
I wonder, what if in the rush to condemn racism against us, we gang up and create a new kind of racism against some other group? Stereotyping hurts -and we know that through personal experience.How can we of all people- as a minority - justify stereotyping and using unacceptable terms against anyone?
Anyway , as you said , this isn't the time and the place.
Its been a very bad day for so many people .Adding fuel to the fires already raging in hearts will not help.
Sadly, I do think this is true - the ignorance of the masses. That's why outlets such as Fox News not only survive, but thrive.
it's funny how extremists beget other extremists who claim not to be extremists, and vice versa. Which extremist came first?
I agree with ANNA on this opportunity to castigate an entire group of people and bring up the violent tendencies of a small portion of that group, while this behavior is common TO US ALL. Forget this Schlussel woman, CNN did almost the exact same thing. As I wrote on First Draft this morning,
Now that they've (sorta) identified the man as a Chinese national here on a temporary student visa, I really hope this situation doesn't explode at the hands of vigilantes.
You are quite correct in this statement, IMHO. I just happened to have renewed my pathetic and paltry health care policy this week and noted that any mental health issues (even due to pregnancy, trauma, etc) are NOT covered. And, I'm on the "more benefits" plan. Go figure. I wonder if any insurance companies have been sued for denying coverage to the perpetrator when something like this (mass shootings, etc) has taken place.
Well you can't completely disreguard what she says as racist. It's not like it's a completely random guess, afterall people of pakistani descent are unproportionally inclined toward terrorism and violence (in comparison to people of any other Asian nation be it Indian, Irani, Chinese, etc). It's an undeniable fact, but at the same time it's too early to say that it MUST be a pakistani. But once again, the chances are higher that it's a pakistani than any other nationality....
For the love of whatever deity you prefer, STOP IT. What utter garbage. Spew more like it and we ban.
Yes. I saw the "confirmation", via urban_dictionary , a user edited joke of a site to prove a sociological point is like using a cracker jack toy to pick steel titanium reinforced lock. Look, terms like cracker and honkey are caricatures, the site had a picture of Indiana Jones for crying out loud. They don't carry the same historical weight. Racism is an institution, needing years of socialization, indoctrination, etc.. so there's no way we can fight racism with our own racism. Any form we come up with will simply pale in comparison.
It's offensive, in a satirical way.. it's just not as offensive.
Uh, since this is a S. Asian blog, I'm sure the bloggers feel some responsibility to address the naked hatred perpetraded on our community for not other reason than our skin color, country of origin, or historical identity.
Schlussel's only agenda is to spread hatred of Muslims especially in the context of them hating Jews, Israel, Christians and Americans. There is nothing she won't use to try an undermine any attempt at moderation from the Muslim community because it interferes with her message that Jews=good, Muslims=bad. The purpose of her message is little more than an elementary school popularity contest. The woman has serious self hatred issues that manifest themselves as hatred of Muslims. Instead of relying on the great contributions of the Jewish diaspora and Israel to the greater good of the world, she needs to demonize Muslims, believing that their demonization results in elevating the status is Jews in the eyes of other Americans. The vitriol she, and others spread, leads to excessive suffering and the promulgation of hate crimes. Addressing her vile hatred and bigotry is just as important as any grief that everyone around the country feels for these pointless murders. The issues aren't related so stop trying to pretend feelings aren't possible to be expressed at the same time.
Since you're so big on media comments and sources, the unconfirmed identification of the shooter as a Chinese man here on a temp student visa is on Keith Olbermann's Countdown and every other mainstream source right now. Turn on the TV.
As for my hope that this doesn't get out of hand, that's my hope and I don't have to cite a damned thing.
I'm surprised Schlussel still has a job anywhere. I remember during 9/11, she wrote (when she was on townhall.com) something about how she was trying to blame 9/11 on Spike Lee and Malcolm X, and how their "anti-semitism was justified" to link it to Johnny Taliban, the white American turncoat who joined the Taliban, months before 9/11.
I was so furious that I told her that "First of all, Malcolm and his family was denied freedom since birth. His father was lynched by the Klan-like terrorists. Johnny "Taliban" Lindh was given his freedom and his citizenship on a silver platter and threw it away. No one lynched his family or thought of him as subhuman.
"If you can blame Malcolm X and Spike Lee for Johnny Lindh for joining the Taliban, then I can blame Barbara Eden from I Dream of Jeannie for setting back fashion for Middle Eastern women 1000 years. And before you talk about someone who is anti-Semitic, you better check your fellow townhall.com brethren Pat Buchanan on his anti-Semitism."
Schlussel never been back on townhall.com since.
Schlussel is just unbelievable. To comments on her use of "Paki", she responds with:
"UH, ACTUALLY IT ISN'T A RACIAL SLUR. AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN DICK CHENEY AND NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR FRAN TOWNSEND CALLED THEM PAKIS?"
Is this woman really this misinformed, or is she just this twisted? Even Don Imus had the sense to know that he'd said something offensive in the recent kerfuffle.
Also, now that reports suggest the shooter might have been Chinese, she says only "The shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa. Lovely. Yet another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students." Not even a backhanded attempt at some kind of retraction.
It's this sort of complete intellectual dishonesty that really turns me off the political blogosphere.
I am from Virginia Tech and at this point I find this article in very poor taste. Perhaps, one actually needs to be in the building during the shootings to know fear of death. And to think I checked SM for a decent writeup.
Personally, I don't think anyone should be looking for any angle on this tragedy. Unless evidence comes out that this was somehow racially inspired/motivated, identity politics really need to be set aside so we can all mourn properly.
a) Your IP address suggests otherwise. You are not from VT.
b) The only thing about this "article" (it's called a "post") which is in poor taste is the inflammatory pandering which inspired it; take it up with Schlussel.
c) If you had checked SM for "a decent writeup", you would presumably have read us in the past; that would mean you would be aware that this is EXACTLY what we would post.
d) It is beyond reprehensible that you would use this tragedy as an opportunity to troll here. Shame on you.
I'm surprised that Ms. Schlussel's blog hasn't been referenced earlier on this site. If you browse through even a few day's worth of posts you'll see this woman's obsession with linking all crime, politics and world events with Muslim terrorist motivations. Howard Stern has her on his show regularly, and while he poke jokes at her, calling her work a game of "six degrees of separation to al qaeda", her horniness to "expose" every public figure in the US associated in some way with Islam as some sort of closet terrorist has gotten hotter and more ludicrous every weeks since 9/11. A case of a pair of Indian graduate students trespassing in Cowpoke, Oklahoma, will show up on her site, speculating that "Vivek Patel" and "Kiran Krishnaswami" could possibly be Muslims scoping out a terrorist attack. She regularly fills her hourly prolific impassioned posts with phrases such as "moderate muslims (oxymoron)". What's surprising in days like these with the issues with Imus and Isaiah Washington how this woman is somewhat still a mainstream talking head and op-ed contributor in rags like the New York Post.
Right when the story broke and the shooter remained unidentified, I had a feeling she would be on it in minutes, as another comment noted, praying that this was the work of a Muslim; and in predictable fashion, there it was.
What a double standard brown people have to face in asserting their "right to be tolerated" these days. I pray for less sucky days. I feel cheap for making a semi-political point after such a tragedy, and so should someone like Ms. Schussel, who seems to have built a career out of it. Right now, praying for the dead is a lot more important.
SM Intern, I find it equally reprehensible that SM use this tragedy to lambaste Schlussel and her ilk. (regardless of how much they deserve it) These people will always fodder, but that should not be the issue today.
(a) not everyone has or watches cable
(b) you should have mentioned cable as a source
Espressa, I'm giving you the benefit of our doubt, but you're really starting to sound like a troll impersonating the "real" Espressa. Your current IP inspires my concern; I recognize that I could be wrong, but this has been an issue here recently.
The issue today is that a tragedy occurred. What is relevant to this blog is how a racial slur and stereotypes were employed to exploit this situation. After 9/11, desis suffered the brunt of retaliatory hate crimes. It is not outlandish to express concern that the same could happen today, nor is it "reprehensible" for us to alert our target audience as to what is being said about them.
You may unreasonably fault us for posting this, but you overlook that it allowed our readers to express themselves about something which affected all of us, regardless of color or creed; we served our role by reporting it this way.
It's an emotional day. We are all raw. I'll chalk all of this up to that simple, unpleasant fact.
i really wonder if there are people that take Schlussel's words seriously, her words nothing more than racist ranting.
hema, didn't you know? as a white person from the midwest, Schlussel is the authority on such things.
Espressa...I am trying to understand you. Do you object to the way that I blogged this post? Were you worried that SM Intern was banning a potential student (they def. were not)? I take words like "reprehensible" seriously. I take blogging here seriously. I tried to be respectful while handling this and if you think that I wasn't, contrary to beliefs held by most trolls, I would like constructive criticism regarding what you think I could have done differently. You are welcome to email me if you'd prefer to speak re: this offline, thanks.
'Real' and 'troll' espressa are indeed one and the same. I'm at a different location than usual, perhaps that explains the IP difference. (but, shoot, didn't realize we were under watch like that) And I've pissed you guys off enough times, you shouldn't be too surprised =)
I can sorta see your point but I deeply, strongly disagree. If backlash from this tragedy comes to resemble the backlash from 9/11, lets talk about it then, but lets not anticipate it. Especially not because some asshole is blogging off some straight up nonsense.
HMF, perhaps you might find this more acceptable.
And how do you measure to what extent or how offensive a derogatory term is to anyone?
By alerting SM to the Schlussel blog, I didn't mean (on any level) to belittle the extremely tragic situation at VaTech, or even to exploit it in order to make a point. It was just something I stumbled across, and it hit me that it was wrong for Schlussel (who some take very seriously) to attempt to exploit a massive tragedy to push her own agenda.
I am sorry to have raised this issue in retrospect. Maybe it was in poor taste in view of the tragedy.
Debbie Shlussel is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. But like one or two other commenters, I would have preferred to read this a day or two removed from the events. I read SM partly because I get news about things that don't get attention elsewhere. But I do feel like reading about this in a day or two would still have an impact but give us time to reflect on the tragedy as just a tragedy, without a specific desi angle. I'm not saying this post shouldn't have been written--I may be completely wrong about it having the same impact in a day or two. But people like Debbie Shlussel will always use any tragedy to their benefit, and I am much too upset about the events themselves to spare any outrage for her. I'm not suprised that there are people in the media who put put a "foreign terrorist" angle on the incident, but I really don't give a crap about them right now. Perhaps I should, but I really don't.
Again, I am not criticizing ANNA for writing this post. This is just how I feel about the situation.
I now have a lot of respect for the VT students. Every student who has been on CNN so far is talking about how they are trying to cope, the reporters on the other hand are prying them about the possible mistake made by the university, the students are not giving up.
I salute you Hokies.
This might be wrong to say, but I am deeply dissapointed that the shooter wasnt white! If he was white, this country would just shrug it's shoulder's and move on to more important topic's like baseball, but now that he is asian all hell will break loose.
All the talk will be about "Asian culture and if it promote's this type of behavior."
"Should we kick all immigrant's out of college?"
"Does Kung Pao Chicken promote violence?"
"Should we attack China?"
"Chinese Restaurants? Should we start referring to them as, 'Freedom Restaurants' in protest to these shootings?"
and on and on.
This whole thing is just plain bad. Just imagine sitting in a classroom with no place to run and no place to duck and have no choice, but to just sit there and hope not to be shot. I also have the feeling, since there is a large Indian/pakistani population in the engineering school there, that there will be a number of Indian student's, who died today. Not that it make's it better if there wasnt, but since this is a desi blog, I just thought I might mention that.
Frankly, I'm really glad Anna blogged this angle as early as she did. There were any number of ways the story could have turned between then and now, and I think I'm much better off being aware that there was somebody out there, even in the Blogosphere loony-boonies, that was desperately trying to spin this desis/Muslims/'P-word' angle on the story.
Desishiksa and Espressa,
I respect you both as commenters and I respect your opinions on this, but I hope you realize that Hema's tip was the single way that this very important story was relevant to our readers; we are not a "general purpose" blog. We have a distinct focus.
I respectfully disagree with both of you because the sad fact is, whenever there is any sort of a tragedy, accusations flow brownwards, first. "We" are guilty until proven innocent. This very blog was created in part because of a profiling incident, a "foreign-sounding name" that was interpreted as a threat. It's our duty to cover this exact angle to such news. MSM will give you the actual facts, we provide the reasons for why it matters to South Asian Americans-- and a forum in which we can discuss it all.
I understand that both of you are hurting because of this and you would prefer to read about "my take" on this in a day or two, but I don't think we had that luxury. I am at work right now because I took several hours off this afternoon to blog this, update it and then vigilantly moderate the comments. I mention that not because I'm looking for praise but because that is how important this story was to me and by extension, to this blog. It received comments seconds after I posted it. That means that our Sepia community yearned to express themselves regarding what they were experiencing. I felt like I owed it to them and our initial mission to write this, when I did, how I did.
I hope that you can forgive me for offending your sensibilities; I have to balance such risks with what I think is best for SM. I almost never please everyone, so I just try to be true to myself and the inspiration I felt in the summer of '04 when SM was born.
Hema, I am thankful that you sent in this tip and I'm sure the readers who engaged in this discussion are, too. There's enough pain going around today, you don't need to take any of it for yourself, not when your heart was in the right place.
For what its worth, I guessed that the blog was Schlussel's before clicking on the link...maybe that means Schlussel-level ignorance and stupidity is rare enough that if it's that easily recognizable. Schlussel is the same person who called Jill Carrol a traitor when she made those videos criticizing America while AQ terrorists held a gun to her head. From Schlussel, we can hardly expect her to blame anyone else.
Speedy
ANNA, you didn't offend me. And it's obvious from the comments that I'm in a minority, and that's okay. I commented on it because well, that's what the comments section is for, right? Thank you for your response. And I'm truly glad you blog about these things, even if the timing doesn't work for me in this case :)
Thanks, ANNA. I'm new-ish here, so I'm not always certain that everything is kosher, so to speak. I appreciate the effort you put in to make all sorts of different opinions welcome. Thanks again!
Baby girl, please don't apologize!!! Like I said, I can see your point for writing it -- its just that my balancing of the interests would have come out differently. That's OK to share, isn't it? Also, once written, I don't think the SM Intern should make such a strong presence in the comment thread. Thus, my 121 was more in response to the Intern's attitude toward 117. Delete as you see fit, but chastising posters from an authoritative handle, especially since the Intern sounds very much like you, creates a teacher/children atmosphere many of us might resent.
Anna, I was writing you an email but I want to say this publicly. I've disagreed with you and other bloggers and other posters, with my algebra teacher, my parents and friends and my little brother... well, authority in that last case is perfectly clear so it doesn't really count... anyway, yes I've been critical in the past, perhaps overly and causticly so, but none of that is an attack on you doing that thing you do. I sometimes comment in haste without giving adequate thought and finesse to my words, but I don't think I have ever trolled. You're a fantastic blogger, an artistic writer and I feel personally enriched for having read your work. I am deeply sorry that my words have ever caused you worry. I will be more careful with my words, since that is all we are here.
(The email was in the same vein, but a bit gushier)
Anyone who types strictly in CAPS is dying for attention. She is what she is; xenophobic, jingoistic, racist trash
debbie schlussel's take on the situation is hardly surprising. She's of the conservative movement who hold some core beliefs that inform their opinion-making in nearly every situation:
1. the 'MSM' deliberately tries to mislead the american public in order to elevate and glorify immigrant, non Judeo-Christian images and values in a misguided attempt at propping up 'multiculturalism.'
2. Terrorism is an acceptable component of a news story about, and motive behind, every crime reported in the 'MSM.'
3. White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (and in Christians in general) are the most persecuted people in our nation.
4. The Muslims are coming to get us.
5. More Muslims than you think possible are coming to get us.
6. The Muslims you meet in everyday life are perfect candidates for Gitmo, or a terrorist trial.
7. You should be ever suspicious of Muslims wherever and whenever you meet them if they do not immediately and loudly proclaim their immediate renunciation of terrorism and any activities abetting terrorism like giving to charities.
8. If you are suspicious of a Muslim, please call Homeland Security right away. The lives and reputations that you destroy are of little consequence as you are showing all their terrorist homeboys that you mean business.
A female Indian grad student is missing and an Indian professor is said to be among those dead.
I updated the post to reflect the latter; if anyone has links about the grad student, please let us know. I will amend the post accordingly.
:(
That says nothing. 9600 students live on campus, another 14,000 live OFF campus. Most universities have their own block of IP's while the surrounding neighborhoods have blocks assigned by the local (or even national) ISPs. His or her IP not a VT assigned one? Simply means that s/he lives off campus.
Think before you type.
Hmm...just to add to the post above. Considering that so many students live off campus, what would have happened if the police had locked down the campus after the first shooting? Most kids would not have been able to get to their classes....
Professor killed
I did. You should, too. I'm aware of everything you stated. None of it applied. Perhaps you are new here; if so, welcome and you might be interested to know this-- we don't call people out like that unless it's deserved. We don't ban unless it's REALLY deserved. I stand by my disgust that someone would troll about this (and troll they did).
He was from TN originally.
Minal Panchal is the grad student's name apparently.
Thanks, MuraliMannered...so amended, per VitH's comment. Each update... :(
a stiff upper lip is sometimes recommended. I can't hold the pose though--this story is too much.
Shallowthinker, I was worried about that too.
I hope they find the poor girl.
That's quite a curiously written article that muralimannered linked to.
Several dozen?
Yeah, throw in an editorial, why don't you.
Complex state of mind?
Thanks. And good -- I've been to too many places that don't actually check things out before calling people out...
I can only hope some nutbag pulls a gun near my loved ones or my home.
Im packin always like the second provides. Blame the college for
not backing the second amendment.Blame the deaths on the murderer.
He like the 911 terrorist entered our country with a student visa.
If the students were allowed to carry firearms the death toll would be lower.
Bottom line left or right, you arguing fools.
I think I finally just understood what you wrote-- and I didn't think it possible, but now I'm more horrified. Could they have prevented some of...? Have mercy. :(
the article is lacking a great deal of detail but linked to it as a way to substantiate the identity of the missing grad student.
Some bloggers are already trying to turn this into a "if they had concealed carry permits this would've been real different" story.
Two pieces of information.
The Indian Student Association at VT says "As of now we don't have any news of any Indian student being part of causalities".
The Indian Express (reporting from NY) says two Indians are missing. One professor and one student. They have not named anyone.
yep, he sure didn't die as corroborated by many sources...
and this ain't faux news either.
First of all any person who can reload and systematically fire round after round,
hitting targets consistently and reloading, has military type weapons proficiency.
Theres more here than most people who have never fired a weapon will ever know.
This type of auto kill comes from actually killing before and I dont mean on a
playstation 3 or x-box. But thats just my opinion as a disabled veteran.
I'm with espressa on this one. One can find piles of Schlussel crap that is anti-brown and link it to current events any day of the week. To choose to do so with this particular event is in poor taste, IMHO. I usually enjoy your writing, Anna, but of course we're not going to agree on everything, so I hope you take this comment in the spirit in which it is intended. I'm just expressing my opinion, and I'm not a troll. I'm at school right now.
Oh my....I know everyone who disagrees with me is not a troll. Let me try again to give you context; a few weeks ago, we were overrun with trolls who were using the handles of established commenters, like Mr. Kobayashi for example. After banning and deleting THOSE a few hundred times, one gets wary when one sees a "regular" posting from an IP that is new, which is what said trolls were doing.
No, I don't expect we will always agree, but I am insulted by the potential insinuation that I was just RARING to post about this and I seized the most deplorable angle possible. Espressa and Desishiksa and I already discussed this amicably; please don't make me feel like an asshole for doing what is essentially my second job. If you didn't already know it, I take this (and everything else) seriously. I did not post this carelessly. :(
@VMN Rao: I am not sure if you checked the post in the morning, but it was written with a very different purpose.
And if you read the last line of the post, you will see the changes the author has made.
You are entitled to your opinion, but since I have been checking the post from when it was posted and I have to disagree.
I've been monitoring this story every few minutes for 12 straight hours and I'm numb. I implore you-- please don't comment about whether or not I should have written this from here on out-- this is about a horrific, senseless tragedy, not my poor taste.
If I have offended you, here:
suitablegirl at GMail
Have at it. Let's leave this thread for things more worthy than meta-commentary or me.
My thoughts and prayers with families of all dead and injured people.
ANNA , I ignored your advice and went to the blog of this women, and I feel utterly disgusted.
There is so much hate there. I was wondering if it is cause internet gives people anonymity to say stuff which they think anyways and all the venom just comes out. There might be so many people whom I work/interact with and went to school with who think that way about me just cause of my nationality or skin color, and yet they dont say or show anything, but carry so much hate.
My cousin studies in VTech and my Aunt was worried sick with all the backlash that might generate if the rumor of the shooter being "middle eastern" was true. This is such an indescribable tragedy for so many people, hopefully it will not be used to formant hate over foreigners
Picnic Day was at UCD just two days ago, and today I feel like we were lucky. I don't remember seeing any police, no security guards, anything of the sort on campus. I remember being followed everywhere by every cop in Davis that night, but nothing during the day.
Two hours passed before anything happened? Apparently two dead people isn't enough to warrant cancelling classes and putting the entire campus under lock down, even when they haven't yet caught the killer.
I can't believe we let this happen. Hopefully in the future, all school authorities will decide to take some action when their student body is exposed to the risk of death.
I just got back from a very large candle-lit vigil on my university campus for the victims of todays shootings. I'm a university student so I identified with the victims on that level. I hope that even if I weren't I would have been moved by this tragedy as any warm-blooded person should be. One of the speakers mentioned something that is always at the back of my mind; she hoped that we could show the same sympathy and compassion for, and that our thoughts and prayers could also go towards, the other people all over the world that are also dying from senseless violence. She mentioned in particular the people in Iraq. She was very respectful in her address, and I also say this respectfully: I wish there weren't a hierarchy of victimhood, based on whatever reason -- distance, inability to identify with the victims because of race/nationality/religion/etc, desensitization to violence that occurs in other ways, perhaps on a scale so massive we can't even isolate it like we can this story. I'm as guilty of this as anyone else, so I hope no one takes this personally, but do I feel that this is the reality of the situation.
Since when is shining the light on bigotry in poor taste. People like Schluss are able to write their hate-provoking garbage everday without anyone saying a word. Thanks Anna, for saying something.
Everyone is upset over this, but like with most tragedies, the real effect is in how it shapes our culture since the vast majority of us have no connection to VT, Blacksburg or the students, faculty and staff.
If you don't think this hatred needs to be addressed right away, you could talk to Balbir Singh Sodhi about it, if he weren't dead for the crime of wearing a turban.
Finally some news to cheer up right wing blogs: The shooter was not an American citizen but a permanent resident.
Unverified report: Apparently he was not a permanent resident but on a student visa issued from Shanghai. Maybe he was a Ughur Muslim!
He was a student from South Korea. BBC has the story.
From MSNBC,
Will Ms. Schmucklussel eat her words? Nah! She has her blinders on.
At Schmuckster's blog, unable to pin down the nationality of the killer, they're already blaming it on all furren students. Disgusting.
They just idenfied the shooter as a Korean student. This is just just so sad. They had a student eyewitness yesterday on MSNBC who identified him as "Asian" and I hate to say it but when she said Asian I couldn't help but think "East Asian" not "South East Asian" because generally when people describe a brown person they use the word Indian or maybe middle eastern(regardless of where the person is from) and I've never heard the word Asian being used unless it was someone East Asian. And I'm sorry if it was someone brown that would be the first thing all over the news and it would have quickly been about terrorism so I just had a feeling it wasn't anyone brown. I don't know why I'm writing about these ridiculous semantics but that was the first thought that crossed my mind.
VERY VERY OFF-TOPIC, or mebbe not (left solely to the discretion of the SM Intern(s) on watch!)...
I just noticed the NRA statement.
Brown folk in the NRA? Wow. Never saw that coming!
Ironically, there's one morbid upside to this guy being non white, at least right wing rednecks won't start blaming TV, movies and video games. Such treatment is only reserved for crazy whiteboys.
Reaction of the right wing to the news:
Another job an American will not do (Haha! So funny, lets use the visa status of the shooter to snipe at immigration laws)
Some 9-11 hijackers were also on student visas (We dont need any furreiners including students as they commit mass murder)
The University Presidents who last year were advocating for more sane policy student visa policies have eggs on their face (Because we all know that foreign students are more likely to commit mass murder and the University Presidents are so fond of mass murder)
If they had guns, they would have fought back (only if they had guns in their freaking pockets, who wants to go to school with classmates packing heat)
I haven't gone through the hundreds of comments left about the VTech shootings, so I apologize if anyone else already raised this point. Also, this comment is in no way meant to diminish the tragedy of yesterday's events. Still, I think it's important to recognize that there are parts of the world where 33 people die in senseless acts of violence on a regular basis. While tragic, the VTech shootings are more examples of the violent world in which we live.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
Everyone wants to place blame, which is natural, and everyone wants to speculate with hypotheticals. What is the students had been armed? What if they had locked down the campus?
If I had heard that two people were shot at a dorm across campus, I don't know if I would have stayed in my room or house and not gone to class. A university campus is not as easy to lock down as a school or a military base with only one entrance. Still people will use this to further their own agendas, whether it is xenophobia, gun control, or gun advocacy.
So students are allowed to carry handguns. How do you ensure that those who carried guns would be the ones that the shooter tried to kill unless you require everyone to carry a gun. Also what happens if the student with the gun is shot and killed by the shooter, what then?
There is such a thing as good and evil. Evil is everywhere and it does not exclude itself to a particular race, religion, gender, or ethnicity. I only hope and pray that people realize that at least at this point we don't need blame, knee-jerk reactions, or political platitudes. Over 30 people are now dead and what we need is love, sympathy, and compassion.
God is love, love one another.....Fuck I am so saddened right now. I worry for my daughter and she's only 10 months old.
Heard at Debbie's blog from a commenter: Do we know for sure the shooter was not a muslim convert? Will we ever know since he was a loner?
is it really that easy for a person on a student's visa to buy so much weaponry?
is it really that easy for a person on a student's visa to buy so much weaponry?
I am pretty sure he had a green card (permanent residence)
I notice now that Schlussel has deleted some of the comments from her blog (specifically a few that raised the "Paki" issue last night). She seems to think that all the commenters are from some liberal site and are out to get her.
I find it really appalling that in the face of such tragedy, all some people want to do is push their own xenophobic agenda. And it's not just Schlussel. You only have to read some of the comments on her blog to know just how many people find it completely credible that a Muslim could have done this.
*shakes head*
I'll just never understand people.
This must be devastating to the nutters. They are doing a good job at improvising.
Jane - yes, to most of America, Indians are "Middle Eastern."
BBC says the student who did the shooting was from South Korea.
Chin up my brother. Asha's going to have a great life: she'll be surrounded by people who love her every step of the way, and that will make all the difference in the world.
SP: correction he was an US permanent resident of South Korean origin.
Here hear Asha's dad. I hate all the political discussions stemming from this. It's such a massive tragedy. It's just a really really sad but completely freak incident something no one could have planned properly for nor avoided given the nature of the incident. Bad things happen sometimes that cannot be prevented. That is life.
The Washington Post on the shooter's identity.
Seriously if the 16 year old kids on the street in NYC can get a gun on the street and it is quite easy to do so why do people make this about the 'ease of weaponry'. Remember bad guys don't follow rules, they can get a hold of anything!
"I find it really appalling that in the face of such tragedy, all some people want to do is push their own xenophobic agenda. And it's not just Schlussel. You only have to read some of the comments on her blog to know just how many people find it completely credible that a Muslim could have done this."
I agree Hema which is the exact reason why Anna had to blog WHAT she did WHEN she did it...I enjoy SM because it seems in large measure to counter those with too much power and far too much ignorance who would gladly take the black, brown and yellow; force us into into boxes and dump us out to sea. Thank you Anna.
Welcome to the real Virginia. Gun ownership is religion.
The Columbine kids bought their ammo at K-mart.
Thanks for the clarification. Most news sources are saying that the student was from South Korea and some are even saying he was on a student visa, odd.
"is it really that easy for a person on a student's visa to buy so much weaponry?
Seriously if the 16 year old kids on the street in NYC can get a gun on the street and it is quite easy to do so why do people make this about the 'ease of weaponry'. Remember bad guys don't follow rules, they can get a hold of anything!"
i guess i was assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the weapons/ammunition he had were legally bought for some reason. but if he was a permanent resident as amfd says then even that would make sense.
I don't think he was on a student visa...I guess no one read my link so I'll paraphrase it. The Washington Post says he was originally from South Korea, but moved to the United States as a child. The article didn't comment on whether he was a citizen or not, but he could be. He was a Virginia local, a native of Centreville, Va.
Seriously if the 16 year old kids on the street in NYC can get a gun on the street and it is quite easy to do so why do people make this about the 'ease of weaponry'. Remember bad guys don't follow rules, they can get a hold of anything
The last two weapons he bought were purchased from a gun store as the investigators found receipts in his pocket.
Buying guns, ammo easy under Virginia's lenient laws
I did read the article, which clarifies a good deal - was just curious about why news sources would still go on to identify the student as "from South Korea" if he was a permanent US resident who came to the US at a young age.
whoops, sorry, I misread #191--I thought you were saying he was on a student visa.
SP: From what I read he moved from South Korea at a young age and went to high school in the US. However, dont hold me to that since the description seems to change every hour or so.
Via Boing Boing and Wired Magazine, comes a story of a misidentified perp in this incident, who is a federally licensed "collector of curios and relics" and possesses a semi-automatic carbine among others!
Before I get too caught up, condolences on behalf of students and faculty from Florida State University to our fellow ACC team, the Virginia Tech Hokies.
SP--I was wondering about that too. It's like they can't let go of the foreign angle.
Unfortunately I disregarded ANNA's advice and clicked on the link to Debbie Schlussel's blog. I had actually never heard of her until recently. She makes me sick.
When I read about this yesterday I was just horrified. I can't even begin to imagine what the VATech community is going through - heartfelt condolences to all. I couldn't help but think over and over yesterday - what if they had just locked down the school after the first shootings? No one will know for sure, but I can't help but think so many innocent lives would have been saved.
I'm not sure who brought it up (was it Neale?), but this is shows so many layers around mental health, violence, and conflict resolution in our country. I really don't care about the gun control argument at this point. I wonder about why we live in a society where someone feels ok going to out to shoot his girlfriend for breaking up with him (wtf!?) and then proceeds to kill so many in the process. To completely understate, that is certainly no way to resolve conflict, and the shooter sounds like an extremely disturbed young man.
All that said, I'm with espressa and desishiksa on this one. I think Anna is completely entitled to post on this, and I think the topic is important, timely, and relevant (and that her post is well-written and sensitive, as always -- thanks Anna). Indeed, wasn't it invective radio that helped ignite the Rwandan genocide? Not saying this is on that level, just reiterating that media is important and important to monitor. That said, this Schlussel woman is a known hate-monger, and her blog is not worth giving the time of day. Perhaps I am too naive? I would have paid more attention had her rant been picked up by anyone considered at all "legitimate" as a news source, but on a private overtly racist and Islamophobic blog?
And lastly, kind of off topic, HMF I personally find the use of the term "cracker" to be offensive. I don't really care how it "measures up" to the N-word or "Paki," and I find this comparison unuseful. It's an offensive, derogatory word rooted in racial hatred. Let's not continue to propagate the hate, yeah?
Here is the face of Evil.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048534
To continue on Shodans take on Gun control, Canada supposedly has more people with guns than the US, I do not know if it is under their amendment, but thats where the similarity ends. I am no pro gun advocate, If that is true, is not the culture more at fault?
Condolences to the families of the departed, Just hoping somthing good will sublime out of it all.
So do I, but the comparison question was asked. So I answered it, but I caught myself before proceeding further.
Have you seen Bowling for Columbine ? This question is dealt with, albeit in a shady, sensationalistic, but very entertaining manner.
But for the vast majority of the day, indeed until one or two in the morning the entire text of Schlusse's post was quoted here so no one would have to give her blog the time of day. If one of us was bothered enough to send this in as a tip, that means that one of us was moved or worried about her hate speech. Using "Pakis" is a very serious transgression, in my book. Why aren't more of you like Naina, in seeing the need to call her out? If she is as popular as Ann Coulter, her use of that word alone makes basing this post on her relevant.
Not everyone is as aware of who is a hatemonger as some of you apparently are. Many of us had never even heard of this woman. Some of you may look down on Schlussel and immediately write her off, but the wingnuts who would commit hate crimes think she's a sane voice worth following. I would rather know what evil lurks out there than not. I also think continuing to complain about the source of this post gets us nowhere.
Desishiksa - yeah, I guess a foreign angle is irresistible. Ironically, many desis will in turn see this shooting as reaffirming some of their stereotypes about violent America - I remember hearing a story from a relative or acquaintance growing up about such-and-such person's daughter who went off to America to study computer engineering or something and was raped and killed in the woods when she went for a jog, and that was passed around as a cautionary tale for Why You Shouldn't Send Your Daughters to Study Abroad.
I wouldn't call myself pro-gun but I can't go as far as saying "ban guns".
I'm uncomfortable with laws that make it easy to obtain guns, getting them at the local superstore, Kmart Walmart etc is what makes me uncomfortable. I'd prefer to see stricter laws and federal laws to govern the right to bear arms and a person who wants to take up arms and it could be in a lot of different capacities, not always law enforcement, would have to go thru stringent regulations and requirements and training in order to qualify for it.
It's the "gun enthusiastic" culture that freaks me, it's the ability of people to hoard guns in their homes just because they have the 'right to bear arms' culture that freaks me. Completely banning them. I disagree. We live in a different world today.
Can we please avoid using loaded terms like this - especially since they're usually used against 'us'?
BTW, Schlussel may be ranting lunatic on her blog without inspiring more than a handful of morons, but she's also a regular contributor to Fox News (as are Malkin the internist and Coulter the clown).
Well we now know that he is Korean(south) it is a damn shame they went to his parents house and showed every potential revenge driven person their house.
I'm uncomfortable with laws that make it easy to obtain guns, getting them at the local superstore, Kmart Walmart etc is what makes me uncomfortable
I'm not as well-informed as I should be on this issue, but my understanding is that retailers like Wal-Mart are at least required to take certain precautions when selling guns. It's much easier to buy a gun from another gun owner at a gun show, where the transactions are typically "no questions asked."
It is very difficult for the federal government to promulgate and regulate gun laws (because such regulation isn't in the enumerated powers of the federal government in the Constitution. See, e.g., United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995)).
It is up to the individual states to place meaningful restrictions on gun sales. For example, some states have a requirement that you must pass a mental health screening in order to get a conceal-carry permit. That seems like a reasonable restriction on a constitutional right to me, but many gun owners disagree, and feel that any restriction on the right to bear arms is a step in the direction of a total ban.
Um, if this is totally OT, please feel free to delete, etc.
Virginia has a concealed carry law, with very few restrictions. Virginia Tech, like most colleges and universities, banned firearms from campus. If the shooter had wandered into off-campus housing, it's a pretty safe bet that someone would have returned fire. This scenario happened at Miami last summer (link):
The big question, though, is do we really want college students armed on campus?
Can we please avoid using loaded terms like this - especially since they're usually used against 'us'?
Point well taken, but there was no racial connotation behind it, just the violence.
You are all so sensitive and thoughtful with your concern about going off-topic. We appreciate you. If you'd like you may move your discussion here-- there is an entire post inspired by Shodan's comment on guns, dealing solely with guns.
My initial response was triggered by a couple of things: seeing the 24/7 news cycle start it's incessant, manic coverage of this horror, blogs of all types chiming in, ready to shove a tragedy into ready made ideological boxes (and no, I don't mean this one, necessarily, it's good to talk and talking is important and ANNA did want to make sure students of Asian heritage were safe from violence in the heated aftermath after this), but so soon, so soon, so soon. Before we pause, before take notice, before we even start to grieve. I suppose this is the way of things these days, with people looking for word of loved ones on facebook, and taking cell phone images of the unimaginable.
In 1991, I was at the University of Iowa, in medical school, when a gunmen shot and killed and injured several people. One of the injured, shot in the mouth as she started a new job, was a childhood friend and aquaintance. I remember frantically calling my brother, a student, that day, trying to make sure he was safe. I wrote about it here, under the title, Haunted. I'm not linking to show my writing, or anything like that. Just to show what I felt and how it felt. I am so, so, so sorry for the family members of those that died and were injured.
From CNN: The gunman who killed 30 people at Virginia Tech's Norris Hall before turning the gun on himself was student Cho Seung-hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html
"She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws."
Score 1 for Due Process.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Virginia-Tech-Shooting.html
The story of that terrible tragedy is (the fictionalized subject) of a recently made indie movie Dark Matter starring Meryl Streep. The NYT reviewed it on 3/27/2007 in Science Times. The gunman in that case was also 'Asian' (Chinese), but some details are different, although both were clearly alienated individuals, whose ethnicity may not have been entirely incidental to their situations. I am not linking the NYT link because it may require subscriptions etc, also - the story carries a picture of the just-injured Miya, that may be difficult to look at. Several professors were murdered in that tragedy too, and now we mourn another event rather like it.
Slightly off-topic, but look at this week in history:
April 18, 1983: Suicide bomber destroys Lebanon embassy. 63 deaths
April 19, 1989: Turret explosed on USS Iowa. Kills 47.
April 19, 1993: The Branch Davidian Siege ends in the deaths of 81 people
April 19, 1995: Oklahoma City Bombing kills 168
April 20, 1999: Columbine Massacre. 15 were killed (including shooters)
April 16, 2007: VT Shooting Spree. 33 were killed (including shooter)
And that is just the last 25 years. Elian Gonzales happened this week in 2000... but doesn't compare.
Tiananmen Square Rallies were started this week in 1989
Any theories? Seasonal affectation disorder?
ANNA, first off, no apologies. You've got nothing to apologise for. Thank you for bringing this to a place where someone like me, with little-to-no-time (or, frankly, any overwhelming levels of interest in) for catching up on US-related news-items, can figure out why he's been receiving hundreds of invitations and messages regarding V Tech on Facebook, Orkut and the like.
The problem with Schlusser (other than the obvious dementia and the tragic haircut) is that while her words inevitably trigger an urge to respond (because letting her just bullshit her way through life is just anathema in so VERY many ways), actually responding to her doesn't accomplish anything. I undermine myself by continuing to even mention her, but what's truly tragic about this event is the fact that people died for no reason whatsoever (not even that lovely oyster of "good reason", mind you), really. And that other people will twist things to their own ends, no matter how great the disconnect between those ends and reality.
The Chicago Tribune has the following quote in a story:
"BLACKSBURG, Va. -- The suspected gunman in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, Cho Seung-Hui, was a troubled 23-year-old senior from South Korea who investigators believe left an invective-filled note in his dorm room, sources say.
The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. They said Cho also died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms."
Don't know what to make of it, but I shudder to think how this could be spun...
Media Matters has picked up on the Schlussel comments.
apparently he had some 'trouble' in his writing and was sent for counseling... i shudder to think what he could have written about to alert his profs...
Tricky, Hitler's birthday is April 20. It's a date heavy with historical portent.
MD huggs. I feel for you. We all feel pain for these poor unsuspecting victims. I saw a father holding his freshman daughter both of them just crying yesterday and it was just so disheartening.
apparently he had some 'trouble' in his writing and was sent for counseling... i shudder to think what he could have written about to alert his profs...
This is a very disturbing paper that is put out by the smoking gun...
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html
Man, reading it I would definitely have alerted security or something..
Finally, the ISLAM angle...............Right Wing Rejoices
The Chicago Tribune reports that Virginia Tech University massacre perpetrator, Cho Seung-Hui,
died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms.
Hmmm . . . Ismail--the Arabic name for Ishmael--considered the father of all Arabs and a very important figure in Islam.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence, right? Doesn't mean anything. Right.
Maybe "Ismail Ax" is the name of a friend of his. Or maybe he wanted to remind himself to buy an Ax for his friend Ismail for next Ramadan. Or I'm sure we'll hear some other similarly absurd "explanation." We'll see.
Yeah, slightly undercooked, but no cause for alarm (except in retrospect, now that he's killed several dozen).
The paper's most serious flaws are literary; the subject matter is really nothing compared to Samuel Beckett in his grimmer moments, or Martin McDonagh most of the time. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I were a prof and an undergraduate showed me this.
What do the words "Ismail Ax" written on the killer arms signify?
From Hot Air:
You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents.
From Wikipedia:
"Ismail," which can also be written as "Ishmael," is the main character in Herman Melville's novel Moby-Dick. Ishmael, in the novel, says that he is going out to sea because he is an outcast. Cho has also been called a "loner" (see above), and perhaps uses the name to relate to Ishmael's situation and feelings of being an outcast. Cho was studying to become an English Major before this event.
AMFD,
What about the ax(sic)? Does Moby Dick explain the ax(sic)?
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
The Korean guy named is the most likely perpetrator at this point. Koreans are the most hot-headed and macho of east asians. They are also sick and tired of losing their korean girlfriends to white men with an asian fetish.
I have heard several people say this, including Asians of different backgrounds re: Korean men here in NYC- subway and on the streets. But that should NOT be the main issue here (as I'm sure people can say about any group). What was his motivation? Were there warning signs?
A lot of people are dead, including a desi prof, Muslim-named student, and an African-American RA. NONE of us is protected from random gun violence, it seems! Guns are a HUGE prob in this nation!!!
Now that's a switch... usually the ACLU types here would howl about profiling/violation of 1st Amendment Rights etc if that was done for a Brown writer "expressing their creative vision".
Here's a blog post from an ex-classmate of Cho's, incl. his plays.
Cho's plays
ACLU types here would howl about profiling/violation of 1st Amendment Rights etc
I might have said that after the fact, but I wonder how many columbines and Vtech will have to go on for ACLU can get a grip on the fact that Chow was no Samuel Beckett.
The nonsense has begun, from the washington post:
I didn't believe he would get this treatment.
Missing Indian student Minal Panchal who had not been contactable since the Virginia Tech University massacre on Monday was confirmed dead late on Tuesday night.
is it just me or are the news outlets consistently focusing on the fact that he's "NOT AMERICAN"?
i mean he came here when he was like 7 or 8 yrs old from S.Korea ... or is it the status quo to refer to all resident aliens as from their country of origin and am i reading too much into this?
Thanks Anna for the updates. Reading the comments here, it is heartening to see that there are many others, not just Muslims, who see Debbie for what she is. It is also heartening to see that it is primarily Indian non-Muslims, who are taking up an educated and enlightened stand.
One Muslim student, Waleed, was also killed. Our blog, MuslimMatters.org, has been following this as well. Virginia Tech Tragedy, One Muslim Brother Dead.
Thank you again to all of you for your objectivity. Common-sense and universal human ethics and morals can come together in a variety of people from different backgrounds, religions and races to defeat bigotry, prejudice, xenophobia, and all other forms of racism.
-Amad
Cho's roomie/suitee Karan Grewal, is obviously desi.
anna,
because the updates is good source of news of desis involved in the incident, i suggest you post an update with the news regarding Reema Samaha's death, too.
not that this should limit what news should be posted on this blog, but i think in the interests of accuracy, reema samaha was lebanese-american. her father was interviewed by wolf blitzer (i am forced to watch cnn due to a paucity of other tv outlets) and it seemed like they are lebanese-american.
We were holding back on posting about her until we knew more about her. If one of you finds a reference to her being desi, please, let us know so we can update this post accordingly.
sorry, i should also have been more accurate. i got the impression from her father that they are lebanese-american, because of his comments on her dance etc., so that is still to be confirmed/or not.
also troubling that someone has circulated a rumor that the gunman's parents have committed suicide, which a spokesperson denied at the news conference. spare a thought for his family too - what must they be going through.
my mistake.
Whose God, the NY Times has this:
and this (disturbing):
filmiholic, thanks for that info. that does sound disturbing and ominous. i hope the rumour is unfounded.
reema is lebanese, not of indian descent.
Let me get this right- the shooter came to America in 1992, he was twenty-two. So he came here when he was seven. Probably started here in third grade, went to high scool and most of college in this country. His formative years were spent here.
But the media says he is a Korean National.
What a bunch of BS. We are not responsible he is not one of us.
Very sad, thats all I can say and Im really disappointed seeing and reading such comments on this site.
From Sydney to Virginia as a Muslim Australian I send out my condolences.
Peace be with you
That makes presidential candidate Thompson look wise. He predicted that authorities would find Counterstrike in the shooter's hard drive.
Some questions remain:
What is the significance of the words "Ismail Ax" painted on Cho's arms?
Was he stalking the first girl that was killed? Its highly unlikely that he actually had a romantic relationship with her, seeing as how much of an anti-social loner and wierdo this guy was.
Did he deliberately avoid shooting fellow east asians? There must be tons of them at Virginia Tech yet his victims seem to be all white, black, desi, middle-easterners or hispanic.
There are 249 comments, could you be a bit more specific about what disappointed you? I'm just trying to clarify things, since this is such an important, sensitive issue which I take very seriously.
In the most fucked up evil twist of all the coverage of this by conservative bloggers, they're blaming virginia tech or the state of virginia for this tragedy by passing some legislation/regulation barring college students from carrying firearms on campus, saying that if the other kids were armed, this tragedy would have been avoided. how many degrees beyond fucked up and insane will such people get, somehow finding a "logical" way to blame this on gun control attempts.
I stand corrected. One of his victims was east asian: Henry Lee. Another, Mary Karen Read, appears to be half-korean.
Tell that to the wingnut whose shoddy blogging inspired this post. She's very much American and she used it UK-ishtyle.
Anna, have you considered the fact that Debbie Schlussel does not deserve our time and consideration? I used to get riled up about these things, and I even did my bit to boo Ann Coulter. I have decided to comfort myself with the realisation that this idiotic mongering to the lowest common denominator will eventually disgust and alienate them. Dinesh D'Souza is the laughing stock of every reality-based ole-school republican I know. Coulter lost her columnist contracts recently. Very soon, Schlussel will lose what little remains of her credibility.
It's screwed up, but not surprising. But one thing is surprising... Components of the mainstream media are delving into his background (he played video games, wrote violent plays, etc.. etc..) which I think it's not instructive (Quentin Tarantino has written stuff 10x as violent, but he gets to be a judge at Cannes), but such analysis is usually levied toward more readily identifiable "homegrown" school shooters.
Margaret Cho, like usual, addresses his race in the best sense possible:
http://margaretcho.com/blog/ourhumanity.htm
We have put a tribute post for Waleed Shalaan, one of the victims. We would love to hear from everyone, esp. anyone who new Waleed. This is a time for coming together... all races, religions and nationalities... since it seems that the murderer managed to kill people from diverse backgrounds. Ironic in how things work sometimes.
Waleed Shaalan: A Tribute to a Muslim Brother at VA Tech
http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/18/waleed-shaalan-a-tribute-to-a-muslim-brother-at-va-tech/
I am sorry to disapoint the redneck trailer trashites out there - this chap wasn't a muslim or a paki' - he was in your words a kink - i believe a christian? never mind - if you look at the intial blogs and comments after this tragedy the 'extremist progun/everyone of different hue=terrorist, lets attack Iran and everyone else - especially if we think they are muslim' seemed to be praying that the shooter should be a muslim - in fact even know some are linking this chap to Islam.
Anyway I pray that the US takes stock at this tragedy and increases restrictions on guns - also there needs to be a stronger background and psychological tests on those wanting weapons - especially people who want to kill muslims.
My condolences to all concerned, its really awful - especially when individuals try to gain political mileage of such tragedies.
From a 'Pakistani Muslim in the UK' my prayers are with you all - in times like this - victims are not just those killed and their families but also the family of the killer.
Can you imagine what the mother and father must be going through?
Salaam, Namaste to you all.
It's striking to me how poorly America understands emotional arithmetic; e.g. "if someone does thus, they must be feeling thusly, and if I do this-and-so, it will exacerbate / mitigate the problem." That first-order emotional calculation just doesn't seem to be a common skill anymore. A great many comments on this thread indicate this is a problem in the South Asian community, and clearly it's a problem in American society at large.
That skill, that ability to understand motivation and emotional connection, is (in my opinion) in large part responsible for things like this shooting at Virginia Tech, for the response we see to it, and for bigger picture issues like the Iraq war, America's declining global popularity, etc.
It sounds very New Age touchy-feely hippie-ish, but it's true.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with understanding what makes another person tick, and once you do, it becomes very difficult to paint them with a broad brush, or to hate them, or to marginalize them. The act of understanding forces you to come to grips with them as a human being; it requires grappling with things you don't fully comprehend yourself, and talking to people you maybe don't like so much, and...well, it requires work.
So yeah. We don't seem to do that anymore. More's the pity.
And while I don't agree with the gun-nuts that everyone should buy a gun to be truly safe, on the other hand I probably wouldn't mind investing in some !@%&$ KEVLAR, you know?
" I have decided to comfort myself with the realisation that this idiotic mongering to the lowest common denominator will eventually disgust and alienate them. Dinesh D'Souza is the laughing stock of every reality-based ole-school republican I know. Coulter lost her columnist contracts recently. Very soon, Schlussel will lose what little remains of her credibility."
DDia I think you are being very naive...though I understand your disgust with fools like coulter, d'jackass..thing is..these fools are like roaches you have to devote full attention to crushing them, otherwise they swarm; and thereby gain implicit credibility. Clowns like d'jackass, schlussel command more power in inner circles than the you could ever imagine.
It turns out that "Ismail Ax" was the gamer ID Cho used when playing online video games. He had it written in red ink on his arms when he went on his murderous rampage.
Now lets see if all the social conservatives who rail against the pernicious lyrics of gangsta rap will have the intellectual honesty to also slam the violent video games that are responsible for creating monsters like Cho, who are not from the ghetto but from the "model minority" living in prosperous suburbia.
Republican candidate for president, Thompson, has been wise enough to take a stand against these incredibly violent video games being distributed indiscriminately. Where are the right wing talk show jerks on this issue?
Pictures and bio has been posted on Waleed Shaalan:
Waleed Shaalan: A Tribute to a Muslim Brother at VA Tech
http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/18/waleed-shaalan-a-tribute-to-a-muslim-brother-at-va-tech/
At the risk of being deleted and/or banned or just plain irrelevant:
No offense intended, but long before the Virginia Tech massacre, I heard Korean-American males described as hotheaded, possessive, and chauvinist by several Far East Asian women who had dated them--a couple of whom ended up being stalked after breaking up, something that never happened with their non-Korean American boyfriends. Why and how has this stereotype persisted? Perhaps we can look at where it comes from (media? language? customs? values?), since all stereotypes are grounded in grains of truth. The danger lies in the tendency to generalize. Please know that I do not believe Korean-American males *should* be described this way nor that anyone *should* believe this about them. What I have related here can't excuse nor explain the behavior of Cho Seung-Hui, though I am curious as to why I've heard similarly unflattering descriptions of Korean-American males from those who've had firsthand experience in close relationships with Korean-American males. They can't all be mentally ill like Cho Seung-Hui, and surely something instigated the comment made by the "unnamed commenter." It's a question that won't be resolved in this comment thread, but one that should be addressed and discussed somewhere.
wdust:
I am curious to know that as well, very much so. Perhaps that can be discussed in a different thread (apologies if there are already several on that). I decided to focus on Korean-American males in my previous post since the comment from the "unnamed commenter" referred to Korean-American males.
wdust, are we still discussing this ridiculous comment about Korean men? Can we desist? It is ridiculous, irrelevant, and takes attention away from the larger concerns around this issue and away from honoring those who died so senselessly.
Why should it be? Basically you are asking a specific version of the larger question--is there truth to a stereotype. Sure, there's some truth to every stereotype. But that's what makes them dangerous--using a few specific truths to generalize to a larger population as a whole, a population that may or may not share those characteristics--and that's why they shouldn't be entertained in any serious or meaningful way.
I don't know about "still"... I left my opinion after reading the msnbc article and finding the thread that contained the ridiculous comment. I'm sorry if I've arrived late to the game--as I wrote, I post at the risk of being irrelevant. I don't want to detract from honoring anyone; however, I think I asked some large questions.
I think there's a lot to be learned by getting into the specifics of the larger question, "Is there truth to a stereotype?" particularly when the specifics involve culture, which varies between large populations as well as between two humans. But that's just my opinion, my own fascinations as a student of linguistics, neuropsychology, and anthropology. Sorry to have taken up so much space.
wdust, there is no need to apologize for "taking up space". if you're new here, you have no way of knowing that we often end up blogging about stereotypes and the ensuing comment threads delve in to exactly what you are fascinated by-- please stay and you'll see that for yourself.
you're right, there is a lot to learn about such questions-- but we're all a bit raw right now so maybe we'll save them and ask them another time.
Thank you, Anna. I have been reading SM for a few months and have seen those threads. I didn't participate, but today the msnbc article--with an isolated SM blog comment in the first paragraph!--surprised me and triggered memories of similar comments from others. I was appalled, but then I had to ask, where does it come from? It shocks me, what I read here--horrific when innocent people are treated unjustly, and makes me wish we could just reach into the perpetrators' brains and rewire a few things. That said, answers to difficult questions can be as depressing as they can be exhilarating.
In case anyone's interested, keith olbermann also condemned debbie schlussel's vitriol last night on countdown. you can read the transcript here.
#45 ylrsings said: "i seriously believe we need to put an emphasis on mental health and well-being in the US. perhaps some tragedies like this could be prevented if screenings were more routine and mandatory.
also, the systems in place to purchase firearms both legally and illegally in the US are far too simple. gun violence plagues our nation in many ways. i really wonder how many tragedies in every type of community need to take place before our nation stops cowering behind the NRA and an outdated constitutional right."
Yes, yes, and YES! Thank you pointing out the specter of the craptastic US mental health care system. When I recently contacted my university's health center to talk to a professional after a friend was killed in Iraq, I was told that I was too young to have any "real" problems and that I just needed to buck up, to give a personally experienced example of the older folks' mentality when it comes to...mentality. Much like the poor S. Asian engineering student at the University of Missouri at Rolla, this kid at VT apparently exhibited numerous warning signs, according to his English professor Lucinda Roy who actually reported said signs to police and administration. (I saw that on both Oprah and the CBS News, to cite my sources.) Sadly, the alerted authorities chose to wait until both students snapped.
And on your second point, I hear the NRA argument that the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted to imply the right for any red-blooded American to be armed to the teeth. So not what it means, but okay. The same document also once said that African-Americans were only three-fifths of a person, and should be noted as such Census records. That was changed after it was realized to be moronic, so why shouldn't there be a little more spring cleaning? Cheers to you for bringing up both points.
Incidentally and a bit off topic but in response to a previously offended poster, the term "cracker" was coined specifically as a descriptive for white people who were born and raised in Florida pre-WWI. It was used by those folks, in description of themselves, to help distinguish between "native" Floridians and those who moved down later, much like one might refer to oneself as a "New Yorker." There's a kids' book called something like "Strawberry Girl," written as I recall by a "cracker," in which the characters use it as a badge of honor. Zora Neale Hurston also described this use in her WPA ethnographic work from the 1930s. As an impoverished white girl not born in Florida, I prefer "white trash" if one feels the need to insult me based on finances and ethnicity, just so that there's no confusion. I like precision, even in hate speech. ;o)
And I apologize for the obscenely long dependent clauses, especially after ANNA's typical eloquence.
Hello,
I just want to tell you that I am a muslim student sent here from lebanon as an exchange student to study at a high school. You can't judge people by their religion, I agree that some people thinks that they are doing "jihad" and do crazy stuff but they are some people like me that are just like regular americans , I play sports , listen to ROCK , play guitar and I can't even hurt a fly. I am just saying that you can't say oh he's a muslim he's a terrorist so please I hope you change reconsider ;-) and if u want to discuss email me moe_0_9@horsemail.com
Please see muslimmatters.org... Waleed was a hero in his death...
I know that many americans are furious at the koreans after the school shootings but I am asking that they not judge the whole based upon the terrible actions of one. As an middle eastern male I understand how events such as these cause great hatred and blame towards a group of people. Please learn from the events from 9/11 and don't repeat them again.
This is to the person that posted the remark about the Koreans being hot headed. I seriously doubt that you would say that to one face to face. Its all good when you are able to insult a whole group of people behind your computer screen. Ignorance and in your case pure stupidity takes away from what really matters and that is supporting those at V. Tech in their time of need. I should mention he shot asian students as well, specifically a korean girl and another asian male. The media seems not to mention these people making it seem as though it was a racial biased crime. I seriously hope that those reading these comments from a white supremacist are able to evaluate the situation and tragedy based on how mentally unstable this man was, not the fact that he was a korean. If you are a minority, such as myself you should be outraged by this racist remark. What if one day it is not a Asian that shot up a school but instead a Mexican or a Black person and you too are in the hot seat for what a crazy person has done?
please guys, as a muslim from pakistan i remember the hatred directed at me and other muslims - in fact at others from a southasian /mideast background due to the actions of a few nutcases.
now we have an individual who happens to be from a south korean background who has killed and hurt a lot of people - we already have comments like 'koreans are hotheaded'etc - yesterday i was walking down to the local drugstore and i used to be greeted by this chinese gentleman - he couldn't even meet my gaze - i greeted him and he smiled back with the same greeting but he carried on walking - its happening again - our fellow human beings are being hurt - they happen to be not just korean but it seems anyone from an east asian background.
there are extremists out there who may want to whip things up - like that schussel or coutler or whatever - we need to stand bt the victims of this shooting - all of them including our korean brothers/sisters.
It's funny how this whackjob is accusing Keith Olbermann as a Nazi. I don't know whether I should cry or just laugh at her moronic vitriol when her own views are more racist than anyone else besides Coulter and Malkin.
I know you mean well, but I really haven't seen any evidence of this. Just read an article from the CSMonitor suggesting that Americans have difficulty seeing this event in a racial context. Even the most bigoted white supremacists see Koreans as an "ideal minority". Thus the desperate attempt to pin it on Desis.
Can't we do better than that? Something should be done. But don't turn to mediamatters. That website is run by David Brock. The man is a discredited liar. There must be better venues to register disgust with Schlussel.
Prema you're an idiot. JD(an indian-dude that lived in Korea)
Jeet, I did not realize hotheadedness was contagious. Maybe it's something in the water?